Hey Doug,:)<br><br>You're right, of course. It's
easy to lose sight of some things, and maybe that's
what I've been doing as of late. I guess I'm lucky in
that all these questions about the "what" of me never
arise (neither from myself, nor from others) until
someone else queries me on my status. Then I look for
answers where there are none, and wind up getting really
down about it. Cause there are no answers, are there?
Only those I already have within me. <br><br>As you
said... it's all in the mindset, and how flexible a
person's thinking can be. All I need to do now, is to stop
comparing my body with "normal" LOL.<br><br>Thank
you,<br>Debs xxx.

Deb,<br><br>It sounds like you are pretty much
like the rest of us, having to go through that stage
where you say "Okay, this is what I am, now how do I
deal with it?"<br><br>If you really think about it,
the only person who has to accept you as female is
yourself. To accept and forgive and move on through the
anger is to find peace. I gave up wishing for normal
and feeling cheated by God a long time ago. It took
almost twenty years to get over the anger, and forgive
those who had their fun at my expense, and to be the
best intersexual I could be, rather than trying to be
the "man" I couldn't. My anatomy might be confused,
but one thing I most certain of is that I am loved
and cherished by others in my life because of what I
mean to them, not because of, or in spite of my
deformities.<br><br>No one knows how hard it is to act on that advice as
I do. I will tell you it is something you have to
do if you want to end the struggling. There is no
struggling when you realize that it is what is in your heart
and character that matters, and you know who you are.
I know the confusion you speak of, and some of that
will never leave. Learn to contain that, and keep it
in perspective in your life, so it does not
overwhelm you. I do not know how to ever get rid of it, but
we can learn to control it.<br><br>Male, female,
lesbian straight or gay, it doesn't matter. If I pass for
male, and you pass for female, that's all well and
good, but trying to compare ourselves to the normal is
not fair, and for the harm it does us makes it a
nonstarter and a waste of life's energy. I am not normal, in
my body or in my heart, accepted it, and am not
afraid anymore. There are many more like me, and
reaching out and networking with them has shown me that
the things I feel and once feared are "normal" for
us.<br><br>Use the unique gifts you have been given and the
lessons life as an outsider have taught you to do what
you can to make this a better world. If I had been
born normal, I would have had it a lot easier, but
would have missed some of the wonderful things that
being what I am has brought me, things I have come to
cherish. You only get one spin at the table Deb, make it
count.<br><br>And just for the record, you look extremely female to
me in your profile picture!<br><br><br>Doug

You have right to say whatever you feel you are.
With a karotype of 46xx you would be bio female. I am
47yo xxy Klinefelter male. My birth certificate reads
male. I have tried all my life to be regarded as a male
(altho with non-working testes, my body shape--clothed
anyway--does not resemble most males.<br><br>I think it's a
mindset thing.<br><br>Steve

Hey everyone,<br><br>I'm Debs. I was born
pseudohermaphrodite though identify, and expect to be accepted as,
female. I would like to know if expecting acceptance as a
female is valid. I have spent the last ten years (from
12) trying to reason things out, and cannot. Various
psychologists/psychiatrists etc have likewise been no help. I know that my
body does not fit the female "ideal" (or rather, the
stereotype), and that that will never really change. But do I
have the right to say "I am female"? Can anyone maybe
answer this? Can I claim that? My karyo (if it helps) is
46,XX, differentiation reproductively is nonfunctional
male, everything else female.<br><br>In hope, Debs
xxxxxxxx.

Los Angeles, here. Intersex'd Male/age 51.
Hermaphrodites/Intersexuals/Androgynes (as I was born) are, I'm told,
practically
invisible to people who are SINCERELY trying to reach them
for social, educational, or romantic purposes. Groups
such as this are few and far in between. Drop me an
e-line direct if you are interested in more details
about me. Then I'll let you know my personal reason for
becoming a member of this group:<br>lynn_edward@...

Yuki, I will also talk to you at my email address in my profile.<br><br>Thanks
for showing an interest in the subject. <br><br>Doug

Yuki,<br><br>I'll write if you email me at <br><br>dbowne@...<br><br>I
agree with your argument; and so far I have kind of lived it.  But being a guy
with breasts is a bit limiting.

Hi, my name is yuki,and I am not an androgynous
person. I am researching about androgyny for English
class. My argument is that intersexed people should be
recognised as the third gender, and docters and parents
should not give them surgeries untill they get old
enough to decide on their own. I want to know your
opinion if you are agree with it or not and why you think
so. Please write me something.<br>Thank you for
spending your time to read this.

ne1 in or Near Ohio?<br><br>Thanks...

I Just joined this and the other two clubs
dealing with this topic on Yahoo. I'm 34, been in a "Gay"
couple for 3 years, and want to get active on this
issue. I was born without a pituitary gland and my body
is unable to make hormones (so I inject them), also
I'm somewhat androgen insensitive, and have minature
genitalia & very little body hair. I'm able to appear as
all sorts of genders and perform poetry as a
gender-bending Drag persona, Testika Filch Milquetoast, who
recites naughty limericks & sports cleavage covered with
fake-fur chest hair and a fake-fur "beaver" (please pardon
the expression).<br>As a child, I used to feel awful
about being Intersexed because I was constantly
harrased, picked on, threatened, and made fun of by other
kids. I was once seriously asked if I was from Mars
because my voice hadn't changed and was very high and
squeaky until my second year of college. My Drag act was
created to exaggerate & parody the caracteristics of the
people who made fun of me, with a "right back at ya"
attitude. My limericks tackle all different adult subject
matter but are much more Queer-friendly than many of the
limericks I've seen elsewhere. I'm looking to meet
intersexed people on Long Island to start either a social
group, a political group, or a support group.<br>take
care,<br>Johnnycakes

I'm not an activist right now in my life.
However, I do believe in standing strong when I believe
something very deeply. But, you know I realize that many
people believe strongly that we have to convince other
world that we exist and that we are all OK. But I think
I'm a few steps behind!--I'm still trying to convince
myself that I'm OK.

Crystal and all,<br><br>One thing that you can do
to help is support organizations you believe in that
advocate for the intersexed. I am the farthest thing from
a political activist, but for me it is ISNA and the
Hypospadias Association of America, who operate a forum on
Yahoo Clubs. Eventually the goal of HAA is to become a
tax-exempt organization and gain wider visibility outside
the cyber world. Yes, Crystal, education is the only
way to battle this, and short of billboards and TV
commercials, affecting one person at a time remains the only
real method. No one is an island, and all of us affect
and are affected by those we meet and spend our time
with. We put a human face on intersexuality. We bring
it home to people that never had to ask themselves
the kinds of questions we did, never had reason to
think people like us are out there. The number one
category of reaction I hear when people "find out" about
me, is "I've never heard of that before". <br><br>I
find people supportive and genuinely caring when they
learn about this, and that is because these are people
who I meant something to before they were told. Most
of the scars I bear over this are in some way
self-inflicted from back in the days when I thought I didn't
need anyone, and in turn made myself unavailable to
anyone who needed me. <br><br>In order to raise people's
consciousness, you have to be there to engage them, and too many
of us try to hide from the world feeling ashamed and
guilty rather than walking out into the sun and being
honest about who and what we are, mainly to ourselves.
It's scary and risky, but it can also be liberating
and rewarding.<br><br>Yes, there is bigotry and
idiocy out there, and I fear that will never be in short
supply, so if you are waiting for that to change, it is
your time that's a'wasting. I choose not to allow that
to control the quality of my life. I grew up in a
poverty pit in the middle of nowhere, and I think all of
you know how hard it is to be different in a small
town, where there is no anonymity possible. I never
looked back when I left, and refused to take that place,
and some of its attitudes with me.<br><br><br>Take
Care All,<br><br><br>Doug

Hi Doug, Hi Dale,<br>I am Crystal, And I am
intersexed. <br>I tottally agree with you both. <br>hatred
and harrasment that a lot of us face<br>will only get
worse unless there is more education. I will be more
than glad to help<br>where needed. WE ARE IN A BATTLE
AGAINST IGNORANCE. I am only 22, but I have my fair
share<br>of battle scars to show. Please lets unite
and<br>brainstorm on ways to maybe solve our "PROBLEMS".<br>E-Mail
at cristisphotos@....<br><br> THANK YOU,<br>
SINCERELY,<br> Crystal S.

Dale,<br><br>Maybe the problem is that the normal
person in everyday life doesn't have a clue that things
like intersexuality exist in as great numbers as it
does. Everybody hears stories about "morphadites" in
grade school, and that's where it stays for most, just
jokes about mythical creatures.<br><br>When I began to
study my particular form of this, I quickly learned two
things; first just how fragile gender is, and second,
that gender is not a bipolar either/or, but a great
spectrum. I have completely abandoned the concept of a
male/female dichotomy in my own mind, in favor of a gender
spectrum concept. <br><br>I have decided that the only way
people will change their thinking is education. Now I am
not some ultra-leftist that thinks anyone who doesn't
espouse my view isn't educated; I don't mean education in
that sense, but I am not afraid to acknowledge my
gender status and answer questions about it. This is
what I mean by education. Most people have never heard
of these things, because it never comes close to
home, like it does when they find out a close colleague
or friend is intersexed. Then it has meaning to them
in a personal way and they can see for themselves
that gender isn't some either/or, black and white kind
of thing, and intersexed people are not monsters,
freaks or weirdos, but just the guy or gal at the job
they have known for years. The more we make our own
efforts to be heard and understood, the sooner that day
you're talking about will get here, Dale.<br><br>Every
other condition and disease process on earth has
advocacy. There are more of us than people with Cystic
Fibrosis. There are more of us intersexed than Jewish
people. Where are the billboards for PAIS/CAIS?
Hypospadias? Total Gonadal Dysgenesis? Crytorchidism/Anorchia?
And on and on. <br><br>Thanks for setting up this
forum, Dale. I just wish it was more active and had five
times the membership!<br><br>Doug

Welcome back Dale!<br><br>I guess you're right...(unfortunatelly in your dreams
;)

I started this club ages ago. Then got involved
with other things. The email account disappeared, and
I forgot it! Sorry.<br><br>Anyway, I'm Ok, and its
good to see more people here supporting realistic
acceptance.<br><br>I just wish we could start a movement that guys
could be guys while wearing a bra with normal breasts.
In my dreams I guess.<br><br>Dale

Thanx for advices mediamix1 :)

Wotan,<br><br>Keep in mind that there are three
categories of gender that come into play when diagnosing or
ruling out intersex conditions. <br><br>1. Chromosomal
Gender is what your karyotype shows, XX, XY, or some
variant like XXXO XYXO, etc.<br><br>2. Phenotypical
Gender is what we see. Female or male genitalia (or
ambiguous as in my case).<br><br>3. Gonadal Gender is what
type of tissue exists, whether testicular, ovarian,
ovoteste, or no gonads at all.<br><br>Some male babies will
look like normal girls when born, and have abdominal
testicles instead of ovaries, (CAIS, PAIS). Cases like this
will often not be diagnosed until puberty when
virilization occurs, (PAIS) or with absence of menarche. In
the salt wasting form of this disorder the babies are
in a life threatening condition of electrolyte loss
and diagnosis is made soon after birth, if not found
through amniocentesis.<br><br>In other cases where the
baby does not look like a normal girl or boy, it is
easier to detect that something rare has occured, but is
that really a boy with an empty scrotum, or could it
be a girl with clitoral hypertrophy and vaginal
atresia?<br> <br>I am a case of ambiguous genitalia, and was
sex tested before an exploratory surgery at age five
to locate a missing gonad on the left side. In
combination with the hypospadic penis, there was strong
suspicion that I could have had an ovary, (true
hermaphroditism). I also had surgeries for bladder outflow
obstruction, kidney reflux, and inguinal hernia repair. I
think they were too busy attending to that stuff to
"fix" my penis, and for that I am eternally grateful,
although that is a topic for another time.<br><br>My main
point here is that this is a very complicated subject,
not just the nuts and bolts stuff, but in the way
this affects our lives. In some cases you can't tell a
baby is or isn't intersexed by looking at the genitals
or breast tissue. Diagnosis has to be done in
context with the other variables to be
valid.<br><br><br>Doug

Glad to hear you're doing well. Life is good, smile, and be happy<br><br>cheers

Hi everyone!<br><br>I was born being intersexed
for about 23 years ago. I'm (or i was)
male-pseudohermaphrodite. When i was 15 years old i took a hard decision
and had several surgeries that make me infertile
woman. <br>Hard life, hard decisions...<br>Now i'm happy
and doing well :)

Hi,<br>I've got a quick question for everyone,
hopefully you can help me out. I'm just doing a little
research on Intersexed individuals, mainly on the
corrective surgeries available. On the isna website, I found
info about surgeries for children - but I couldn't
find much about options for post-pubescent teens, and
even older people (early 20s). What kind of procedures
are available? What is involved? What is the healing
process like? Are there many doctors out there who can
perform said procedures? <br><br>Any and all information
will be greatly appreciated. Of course, if you know of
any web resources that you could point me towards,
that would be great as well. Thank you so
much!<br><br>The Great E-Tective

Although genitalia is often a determining factor,
there are usualy other symptons.<br>For example, a
child born under or over weight might be signs. But
this is rare. Most cases are identified later in life.
Remember, there are Herma morphadites and
Psuedo-<br>morphadites. I was diagnosed with psuedomorphaditism.
hermamorphdites<br>are more obvious because they at birth<br>are born
with "abnormal" genetalia. <br>Please ignore the
misspellings, if any.<br>I do not know all the answers but I do
know some. And I will gladly share what I do know.<br>
<br> GOOD LUCK<br> Crystal S.

From what I have read (which is really not a
lot), there seems to be an emphasis on infant genitalia
as the identifying criteria of determining
intersexuality.<br><br>However, what if a male infant were born with breasts
that
seemed less male and more female (e.g., size, shape)?
Someone told me that this condition comes under
gynecomastia, but g. manifest itself primarily in adult males?

Wow! Neat bio!<br>It was rather refreshing for me
to read your message. I am in a similar situation; I
am intersexual and I'm learning how to be happy
"just being me." You know, the third sex that many
people don't know about yet: male, female, and ME!
Although, I know myself to be a little more toward the
male-side of the scale, I have been raised a female but had
been given hormone therapy that I wish I never had
been given. (it's kind of a long story, but maybe I
can share it sometime). I have not chosen surgery
yet, and I am reluctant to think that I will any time
soon. I guess that is why I don't fit with transsexual
or gay communities--I know that I didn't have a
choice in what my body looked like at birth. I have
never had surgery to change my gender, and I know that
if I am not OK with the body I have been born with,
I will never be OK having surgery to "fix" me.
<br>Some day, I may change my mind, but I dare say I will
make no moves in the surgery department until I can
come to grips with who I am with the body I have. I
would hope that others like myself wouldn't rush to
surgery just to "conform" to the public norm. Yes, that
means being misunderstood. Yes, that means that only my
closest friends will understand me. But, if I change
myself to only be a normal male, will I then find peace?
I doubt I would. So maybe, for now, I need to wait.

My name is Crysttal and I am born intersexed. I
was born in Georgia. I was raised as a male. From
early on I knew I was different. At age 22, (a year
ago), I started<br>hormone therapy. I found out when I
was 21<br>that I was indeed intersexed. I've
always<br>had "effeminate" features. I.e. high
voice,<br>womanly face, body, etc. The only thing "male about me
was my penis and unusually faster<br>than usual
growing facial hair. I too dont fit in <br>with the
transexuals or gay comunities. although I supportt them, We
as intersex people had absolutely no choice in what
we are. So Bridgette there is be tter help out t
here. I now live in San Francisco. Yes we still have
hate crimes but it is a lot safer than most places.
E-mail me and I will refer you here in<br>San Fran. to
get help, often for free. cristisphoto@....
This message is for any one intersexed or still
wondering.<br>TOGETHER WE STAND AND SURVIVE.

You bastard! We are not trophies looking for
exploitation! We are not pieces of meat just waiting for you
carnage. We have led a tough life...ridiculed, humiliated,
abused...and now, for me personally, at the age of 51 was told
by a psychotherapist recently he feels I am on the
way to self destruction. I learned at 49 that I am an
intersexual...and I have learned I am not alone. There are lots of
hurting people out there and then there is you. Talk
about despicable slime...what are you doing on this
site? Kick this bastard off!

Well, a couple of questions first:<br><br>How
close do you want this "fine person" to be to San
Francisco?<br><br>And, excuse me if I am cautious, what's your purpose
in wanting to meet someone? <br><br>I'm interested
in meeting people. . .just a little nervous when
someone sends a one-liner message. Why don't you
introduce yourself a little bit.

It isn't objectionable that you would like to
meet intersexed people. Frankly I wouldn't be offended
if you were hoping to find sex. But please don't
imagine that "few people" would accept or desire us
because that's not true. <br><br>You may be suprised to
find that a great many of us are not like women
though. Some of us are truly androgynous. Many are male
identified and have male secondary sex characteristics - we
look,smell and sound like any other guy. Many got a mixed
bag of hormones before they were able to settle on
the gender they most wanted to look like and so may
have breasts that go with a morning shave. If you'd
really like to get to know someone who is a little of
both, but not completely either gender you may find
that what we really are doesn't fit your imagination.

for your info we are looking for a long term
partner not a trophy.we think that intersexed people are
special.we are not being nasty and demeaning we just agreed
that we could show an intersexed woman that she is
really a human being not a joke atleast we can except an
intersexed woman not many people would.we just want to be
real and we are.we are not in here cracking jokes or
ridiculing we just want to meet an intersexed woman to be
friends with and maybe more.we respect people for who
they are not what they are.

wtptoo,<br><br>I think you are right about the
high incidence of intersexuals we see and hear about
being "females", because this is the standard of care,
(or lack thereof) in gender assignment surgery. I
look and function as male, although I too would like
to be able to identify myself as being not quite
like the other little boys. In my case there was no
question of reassignment surgery, as I had one palpable
testicle, so the only race that was run was to see where
the other testicle (or ovary) was in the body. My
hypospadias was left alone, too, thank god, so while I did
endure being opened up only to find nothing there, I did
not have to risk the high rate of failure in these
repair procedures. <br><br>To answer your question, the
incidence figure I hear is 1 in 2000 live births, which
makes intersexed people more common than those with
cystic fibrosis. <br><br>Doug