I will attempt to make myself aware of all of the side effects of the drug.
How are the US treatments going or is it still classified as an illegal
drug?

-----Original Message-----
From: ibogaine@... [mailto:ibogaine@...]On Behalf Of
Nick Sandberg
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 7:26 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: Legal - UK prescribing of ibogaine


Recently spoke to someone knowledgable in the field of what UK medical
practitioners can do with unlicensed medications such as ibogaine.

He informed me:

" For a UK General Practitioner to prescribe an unlicensed medication to
a patient, he or she must first obtain the patients' "fully informed
consent".

"Fully informed consent" is taken to mean being informed of the
liklihood of success of the treatment; the liklihood of failure; and the
nature and liklihood of any adverse side effects of the treatment.
Furthermore, the patient should be informed of these factors for any
alternative treatment. "

Once this is done, and presumably the patient has signed his name to
indicate he or she consents to the treatment and considers
herself/himself fully informed, the treatment can legally proceed.

This protocol is usually used for alternative cancer treatments in the
UK. I will try and find examples of what happens legally in the event of
the patients' death or injury.

In addition, if anyone out there feels like indicating to me what they'd
regard as "fully informed" for ibogaine therapy, (ie specific
information), it would be of considerable assistance to at least one UK
scientist I know of currently working on ibogaine treatment protocols.

Nick

Recently spoke to someone knowledgable in the field of what UK medical
practitioners can do with unlicensed medications such as ibogaine.

He informed me:

" For a UK General Practitioner to prescribe an unlicensed medication to
a patient, he or she must first obtain the patients' "fully informed
consent".

"Fully informed consent" is taken to mean being informed of the
liklihood of success of the treatment; the liklihood of failure; and the
nature and liklihood of any adverse side effects of the treatment.
Furthermore, the patient should be informed of these factors for any
alternative treatment. "

Once this is done, and presumably the patient has signed his name to
indicate he or she consents to the treatment and considers
herself/himself fully informed, the treatment can legally proceed.

This protocol is usually used for alternative cancer treatments in the
UK. I will try and find examples of what happens legally in the event of
the patients' death or injury.

In addition, if anyone out there feels like indicating to me what they'd
regard as "fully informed" for ibogaine therapy, (ie specific
information), it would be of considerable assistance to at least one UK
scientist I know of currently working on ibogaine treatment protocols.

Nick

>
> you can use sleep paralysis to your advantage to initiate lucid dreams.
> ....... and successfully turned them
> into lucid dreams,

i agree with this - the moment you become aware of the fact that
you are dreaming you can turn it to your advantage. when this
happened to me i used chants such as 'om mani padme hum'
to combat it and eventually (over time) this would allow me to
overcome the feeling consciously while not waking. any
affirmations (positive sequence of words) or mantras seem to work
work.

>I must thank Dana for posting the article on sleep paralysis.  What really
>surprises me is the number of persons that once presented with the phenomena
>were able to identify themselves as having experienced it.  I am wondering is
>this phenomena is found to a greater extent in persons who have exhibited
>chemical dependence.  Though I recognize that the answer to this questions
>will not come from this list, it is provided as a thought.
>
>I wish to further note that I too have experienced this in one manner that I
>can recall.  It concerns itself with nightmares or frightening experiences in
>dreams during which I was not able to scream but, in the dream, presented a
>silent scream, being to frightened to scream.  Overcoming the inability in
>the process of waking myself to recognize that I had been woken by my
>attempted scream of which I could determine only a partial vocalization had
>been accomplished.
>
>Which brings me to the subject of melatonin and dreaming.  One of the points
>of discussion that had come up pursuant to these subjects in early
>discussions was the affects of melatonin on dreaming.   A significant number
>of internet posts claimed that melatonin altered dream content and that
>melatonin dreams were nightmare-like in quality.  I have used melatonin in an
>attempt to sleep on a number of occasions and virtually on each of these
>occasions though months apart, the use of melatonin produced dream content
>that while not necessary nightmares did have a content that was not pleasant
>and also that the melatonin dreams were filtered in terms of color.  They
>were not black and white but, appeared to be of diminished color.  Looking
>for comments.
>
>Howard
>
>Howard


I got this earlier. It came from an earlier parallel thread from which we
Ibogainefolk are unforturnately banned, on the supposition the "Ibogaine
Idea" threatened to "take over their list."

I still get things from time to time. Andre Welling is supposed to be
working on a thoughtful review of the book, and I'm preparing a thread to
send off to him and the others on the OTHER PKDick list.

Dana/cnw

P.S: Maybe Carey could tell us what else was said.

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 09:33:40 +0000
From: Andre Welling <welling@...>
Subject: RE: [PKD] sleep paralysis (is *not* [OT])
Mime-Version: 1.0
Status:

>Return-Path: <owner-pkd@...>
>X-Sender: cwilson@...
>Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 08:19:43 -0700
>To: pkd@...
>From: Carey Wilson <cwilson@...>
>Subject: RE: [PKD] sleep paralysis (is *not* [OT])
>Sender: owner-pkd@...
>Reply-To: pkd@...
>
>Andre passed this along:
>>>they say that you're especially prone for it if you disturb your 'normal'
>>REM sleep patter, e.g., due to sleep deprivation, irregular sleeping
>>pattern, shallow sleep etc. I would be surprised if melatonin isn't in it
>>too.<<
>
>I can confirm part of this first assertion; I seem to be most suseptible to
>the sleep paralysis during times when I'm busiest working the day job and
>playing with my band at night, which also usually involves consuming
>various intoxicants and/or mind-altering substances. I have been taking
>melatonin pretty regularly for the past couple of months (thanks to the
>advice of Dana Beal) and have not had any sleep paralysis episodes in that
>period, so it may indeed prove useful in avoiding this malady, but I don't
>want to be completely cured because the good, trippy instances of enjoying
>the experience are truly fascinating and seem worthy of much deeper
>exploration. The good weirdness makes the bad weirdness worthwhile or at
>least bearable, so to speak.
>CaREY
>
>




--
"If in many of my productions terror has been the thesis, I maintain
  that terror is not of Germany but of the soul."  -- Edgar Allan Poe

I must thank Dana for posting the article on sleep paralysis.  What really
surprises me is the number of persons that once presented with the phenomena
were able to identify themselves as having experienced it.  I am wondering is
this phenomena is found to a greater extent in persons who have exhibited
chemical dependence.  Though I recognize that the answer to this questions
will not come from this list, it is provided as a thought.

I wish to further note that I too have experienced this in one manner that I
can recall.  It concerns itself with nightmares or frightening experiences in
dreams during which I was not able to scream but, in the dream, presented a
silent scream, being to frightened to scream.  Overcoming the inability in
the process of waking myself to recognize that I had been woken by my
attempted scream of which I could determine only a partial vocalization had
been accomplished.

Which brings me to the subject of melatonin and dreaming.  One of the points
of discussion that had come up pursuant to these subjects in early
discussions was the affects of melatonin on dreaming.   A significant number
of internet posts claimed that melatonin altered dream content and that
melatonin dreams were nightmare-like in quality.  I have used melatonin in an
attempt to sleep on a number of occasions and virtually on each of these
occasions though months apart, the use of melatonin produced dream content
that while not necessary nightmares did have a content that was not pleasant
and also that the melatonin dreams were filtered in terms of color.  They
were not black and white but, appeared to be of diminished color.  Looking
for comments.

Howard

Howard

Being able to do lucid dreaming I see as kind of the "next stage up"
from awakening in the emotional body. Though I'm not exactly sure as to
the relationship.

With lucid dreaming you have the control element which allows you to
explore dreamstates and therefore your subconscious. This theoretically
can initiate phenomenal levels of healing at an emotional level and
probably be used to treat a whole host of otherwise near-untreatable
ailments, (see Stephen LaBerge and others). Though most men who've
learnt to lucid dream often just use it to simulate having sex with
various fantasy partners.

Nick

ayman rostom wrote:
>
> you can use sleep paralysis to your advantage to initiate lucid dreams.
> i have had many 'succubus' experiences, and successfully turned them
> into lucid dreams, an experience better than any drug experiences ive
> ever had. controlling your dreams is the business.
> ayman
> _____________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

you can use sleep paralysis to your advantage to initiate lucid dreams.
i have had many 'succubus' experiences, and successfully turned them
into lucid dreams, an experience better than any drug experiences ive
ever had. controlling your dreams is the business.
ayman
_____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

Adam Gur wrote:
>
> Hello NIKOS,
>
> I think that you're question was really addressed to Nick, however I might as
well describe a bit more my
> 'sleep paralysis'... I wake up, can't move and I simply feel as though I've
got to 'plug in' and it
> involves the most absurd effort imaginable, sometimes you kinda stop to catch
your breath but it ain't
> your body that's puffing, and if I remember correctly it sometimes ends with a
lurch motion (though I'm
> not sure 'lurch' is the right word) ...and falling asleep, well, in my case, I
don't recall being
> emotional at the time, in fact I'd describe myself as very relaxed and then
-gzzziiinnnggg- I'd get this
> current run through me and then another and another and then I'd try to move
to no avail.... overall, I
> find it amusing, and like I said, I consider myself lucky, if I felt the
presence of hags, gremlins or
> spinning beds I'd probably barricade myself with an uzi, some holy water and
coffee.... however, I'd
> point out that my 'drug' history involves only smoking weed and a few amazing
acid trips in nature....
>
> later,
> Adam

I know it seems like we're drifting off-topic here. But I believe there
is some relevance to addiction.

Dreams are now widely regarded as a form of emotional release, usually
used to deal with unresolved emotional stuff that's arisen during the
previous day.

In holistic science, they say we have 3 mortal bodies. The physical, as
in regular Western science, + the etheric, (a kind of template for the
physical) + the emotional, aka astral, (a kind of governor body).

When we dream we frequently enter the emotional body. If you awaken
inside your emotional, you will often not notice anything different
about the world around you. But it will not be the same. You won't feel
emotional. You'll likely think you've just awoken from a dream and are
looking around you, but will actually still be in a dreamstate -
dreaming you're in your room looking around you. This is when weird shit
starts to happen, (as the laws of physics don't really apply in the
emotional body's domain), and because you think you're awake, it freaks
you out and you figure the bogeyman's out to get you.

The ego also usually loves this as all egos want to believe their owners
are having special shit happen to them. But, all that's happening is
that you are releasing emotional tension. Nothing more.

My opinion on heroin addiction is that it invariably results from
emotional mis-processing. We are constantly processing experience as it
happens around us, and how we process experience with emotional content
determines how much stress, tension and anxiety we have in our lives.

When our apparatus for processing emotional experience is either
overloaded or not working correctly, we have a tendency to get very
stressed easily and chance encounters with heroin can quickly lead to
addiction. Because, at the end of the day, heroin is nothing more than a
painkiller. In fact, one of the most powerful painkillers known to man.
And people who take it daily, assuming they haven't just been in a car
accident or returned from a war, are invariably, in my opinion, not
functioning correctly at an emotional level.

This actually isn't particularly hard to correct, esp once the user
begins to think rationally about WHY they need to take one of the
world's most powerful painkillers on a daily basis.

And here we get to dreamstates. Because dreams are one of our natural
means for releasing emotional tension, anything that can be done to help
addicts have them can be useful. And waking up inside the emotional body
usually occurs when there's a lot of emotional tension to be dispelled.
(This is why I've been able to research this area extensively). If we
can develop techniques for getting recovering addicts to wake up in the
emotional body, we'd likely have yet another very useful tool in the
fight to beat heroin.

Nick

Classic emotional body-physical body "re-entry" scenario, my man.
Absolutely standard.

Nick

Ed Snible wrote:
>
> I experienced sleep paralysis in a hotel in a large Texas city.  I was
> trying to stretch too few methadone take home bottles and withdrawls
> were creeping up on me.
>
> I woke up before dawn, terrified.  The bed was rising from the ground
> and spinning horizontally.  I tried to jump off the flying bed but I
> couldn't move--it was as if a powerful ghost was pushing down upon me.
> I struggled to move off of the bed, but nothing happened.
>
> After fifteen seconds the poltergeist dropped the bed and I; we
> crashed into the floor.  I wanted no part of the bed and I struggled
> to leap away for what must have been another fifteen seconds but it
> felt like fifteen minutes.  The weight left me and I got up sobbing.
>
> I am skeptical of poltergeists, old hags and alien abductions but I
> was sure I had experienced the real thing.  I knew a little about
> sleep paralysis and had once woken with a few seconds of paralysis
> after a dream about being paralyzed.  This experience was was real
> because I had heard noises and the bed seemed to have truely moved.
>
> I got down on the ground to look for the old indentations in the
> carpet to measure how far the bed had moved during the experience.  I
> was shocked to find out that the wheeled feet of the bed were still
> in the original indentations.  The bed was perfectly aligned with the
> wall--there was no way it could have spun in flight and fallen
> roughly.
>
> The hotel wasn't haunted.  It was sleep paralysis.
>
> Ed

HSL123@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 8/3/99 5:31:59 PM, fric@... (g.i.s.) wrote:
>
> just my silly 2 cents (OT) about Cassini...
>
> I'm plaining to take Iboga(ine) next september, just in the little italian
> village- near France- were G.D. Cassini was born
> (& my mother , too) -
> ...very strange.
> ciao
> g.i.s.
>
> OK nick,  there you go.  I knew there had to be something better to come of
> it, your Cassini prediction, that is and lo and behold, an ibo dunking in a
> town near where Cassini was born.
>
>

Oh my God! What does it all mean?

Seriously, I hope Cassini manages to get on its way to Saturn without
accident. Though I still think it's kind of bizarre NASA should choose
possibly the most biblically-charged day for centuries to perform it's
fly-by. Couldn't they just have done it a week later? Is it a NWO plot?
Must admit I can't see the US hard-right giving in to all this emergent
democracy without a fight. Anyway, only 2 weeks to find out.

If it does crash, they'll be so many people trying to repent and do
good; help ladies across roads, cats out of trees, junkies get off etc;
they'll probably be no-one left to try my blinding new theory for
overcoming heroin addiction on. Such is life.

Nick


PS - Still be very grateful if some scientific type could let me know if
I can take an iboga extract down to solid by boiling and still retain
all actives. Thanks.

Hello NIKOS,

I think that you're question was really addressed to Nick, however I might as
well describe a bit more my
'sleep paralysis'... I wake up, can't move and I simply feel as though I've got
to 'plug in' and it
involves the most absurd effort imaginable, sometimes you kinda stop to catch
your breath but it ain't
your body that's puffing, and if I remember correctly it sometimes ends with a
lurch motion (though I'm
not sure 'lurch' is the right word) ...and falling asleep, well, in my case, I
don't recall being
emotional at the time, in fact I'd describe myself as very relaxed and then
-gzzziiinnnggg- I'd get this
current run through me and then another and another and then I'd try to move to
no avail.... overall, I
find it amusing, and like I said, I consider myself lucky, if I felt the
presence of hags, gremlins or
spinning beds I'd probably barricade myself with an uzi, some holy water and
coffee.... however, I'd
point out that my 'drug' history involves only smoking weed and a few amazing
acid trips in nature....

later,
Adam

Could someone please tell me what the $1,200 for the initiation goes to? I
understand the initiation is carried out in Cameroun, but I would like to
know what is offered in exchange and how much of the money goes where.

Thanks,

laurence


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

In a message dated 8/3/99 5:31:59 PM, fric@... (g.i.s.) wrote:

just my silly 2 cents (OT) about Cassini...

I'm plaining to take Iboga(ine) next september, just in the little italian
village- near France- were G.D. Cassini was born
(& my mother , too) -
...very strange.
ciao
g.i.s.


OK nick,  there you go.  I knew there had to be something better to come of
it, your Cassini prediction, that is and lo and behold, an ibo dunking in a
town near where Cassini was born.

ciao

Howard

I suppose this is off-topic, to be sure, but I thought a recent admission by
the CIA of its own role in narcotics trafficking might interest some of you,
even if it did take place in secret.

http://www.copvcia.com/

Mike Ruppert is a friend of mine.  This is his website address, where
readers will find this month's greatest story never told.  Namely, that the
congressional hearings expected on Volume II of the CIA's investigation of
itself was held a couple weeks ago, in secret.  They couldn't hold them in
public, since they [the CIA] were going to have to admit smuggling drugs.

In the world of covvert ops and conspiratorial history, Mike's work goes a
long way toward connecting the dots for me.  His newsletter is a priceless
bargain at about $25 a year (I think).

Mike also makes a highly skilled and credible witness on these matters,
partly due to his background as a former LAPD officer, and partly because he
stems from a family of one-time CIA and OSS agents/officers.  Although this
CAN be a profile for a disinfo pro, Mike is not one of them and he's lost
his once-bright career to prove it.

I recommend it highly.

Katalyst

Is there a place in Italy for treatment?  I am considering the French
location and would appreciate information re: the Italy location.

         Thank you
         Helen Mosley

Ps: Good Luck!

I experienced sleep paralysis in a hotel in a large Texas city.  I was
trying to stretch too few methadone take home bottles and withdrawls
were creeping up on me.

I woke up before dawn, terrified.  The bed was rising from the ground
and spinning horizontally.  I tried to jump off the flying bed but I
couldn't move--it was as if a powerful ghost was pushing down upon me.
I struggled to move off of the bed, but nothing happened.

After fifteen seconds the poltergeist dropped the bed and I; we
crashed into the floor.  I wanted no part of the bed and I struggled
to leap away for what must have been another fifteen seconds but it
felt like fifteen minutes.  The weight left me and I got up sobbing.

I am skeptical of poltergeists, old hags and alien abductions but I
was sure I had experienced the real thing.  I knew a little about
sleep paralysis and had once woken with a few seconds of paralysis
after a dream about being paralyzed.  This experience was was real
because I had heard noises and the bed seemed to have truely moved.

I got down on the ground to look for the old indentations in the
carpet to measure how far the bed had moved during the experience.  I
was shocked to find out that the wheeled feet of the bed were still
in the original indentations.  The bed was perfectly aligned with the
wall--there was no way it could have spun in flight and fallen
roughly.

The hotel wasn't haunted.  It was sleep paralysis.

Ed

NIKOS wrote:
>
> Hello Adam,
>
> how does this sleep paralysis feel like?
> The first years of my opiate addiction I very often had the feeling of being
> paralysed at the moment I fell asleep. I also had the feeling to fall into a
> bottomless something knowing that I would die if I couldn't stop this
> process by strong willpower. Is it this what you mean with sleep parlysis?
>
> I don't know what you mean with emotional body. But have you ever heard
> about the expression "dreamer" or "to dream" in related to the books of
> Castaneda?
>
> Greetings
>
> NIKOS
>
You know I hadn't thought about it till you mentioned it, but when I was
using heroin I used to have a similar sensation.  Just when I was
falling asleep, I would feel as though I were frozen and I would
(imagine/dream/hallucinate) these demon-like creatures coming through my
window.  It produced the most overwhelming feeling of dread and
impending doom.  It got to be so common that I couldn't go to sleep
without closing my window first, even in the middle of the summer.
--Fish

HSL123@... wrote:
>
> To join the ibogaine list see instructions below:
>
> > >send email to listproc@... with the subject blank and >with the body
> > >containing nothing but the following four words:
> >
> > >subscribe ibogaine <firstname> <lastname>

Thanks Howard

Hello Adam,

how does this sleep paralysis feel like?
The first years of my opiate addiction I very often had the feeling of being
paralysed at the moment I fell asleep. I also had the feeling to fall into a
bottomless something knowing that I would die if I couldn't stop this
process by strong willpower. Is it this what you mean with sleep parlysis?

I don't know what you mean with emotional body. But have you ever heard
about the expression "dreamer" or "to dream" in related to the books of
Castaneda?

Greetings

NIKOS

Adam Gur wrote:
>
> hello to all,
>
> I happened to have experienced this phenomena (sleep paralysis) quite a
few times and I guess I'm
> among the lucky ones since I interpreted it - while it's happening- as
being disconnected from my
> physical body ... the experience itself is far from pleasant but I
nonetheless managed on a few
> occasions to recreate it as I'm about to fall asleep...  however I doubt
if we explained away alien
> abduction with this one phenomena,

This phenomena has occured to me so many times I reckon I know about it
now. What happens is you awaken whilst making the nightime transfer from
physical to emotional body or back again. Because your physical body is
paralysed during REM sleep, it first scares the shit out of you because
you believe someone's in your room holding you down. Especially if you
are sleeping alone at the time.

After a while you get used to it. You can induce these experiences by
putting yourself into an emotionally stressed state prior to sleeping -
think about that girl/boy who dumped you years ago, cat dying when you
were a kid, whatever. If the stress is great enough you'll move quickly
into your emotional body once you slip beneath consciousness. I've even
managed to remain conscious whilst losing consciousness (!!) a couple of
times. It's like being drawn into the whirlpool than forms when the plug
is pulled out of the bath.


  it wasn't a hag that crashed into Rosewell and cars aren't
> supposed to get paralyzed, at most we can attribute alot of these claims
to this phenomena but
> surely not all....
> AND in the good news department, I am set to go to Cameroun, .... I want
to thank this group for
> making this possible and for the support, especially Nick, Larry and
Wayne.... and being a
> graphic/web/3d designer, I intend to create my own site on Iboga- to that
end I will bring a camera
> and start a journal, I am particularly interested in seeing how I draw
afterwards... no
> expectations, I know.....

My guitar playing improved no end after my last ibogaine session. There
again, it couldn't get much worse.

>
> About wormwood (Nick), I'm not sure but I believe the passage has been
attributed to the Chernobyl
> accident, you may want to check on that, from what I recall, Chernobyl
means wormwood (or maybe
> redwood) in Russian- what I do remember clearly is that the nuclear plant
was named after the
> nearby forest which was named after the popular tree to that region... and
there is a river that
> runs right next to it... however, that part about falling out of the sky
seemed to have been
> omitted from any previous quotes I read...

Yes, wormwood is Ukranian for Chernobyl and is so associated slightly
with radiation poisoning. It's pretty weak, I agree, but good for
scaring people. I think the Cassini fly-by's now scheduled for August
18th 1999. Which is also the day of the Great Cross.

------------

In addition, August 18 1999 is the date of the Grand Cross Astrology
pattern forming in the skies, where the planets are grouped in
a cross shape. This is regarded by many astronomers as the most unusual
astrological pattern of the last 2,000 years and some
believe it is also referred to in the Book of Revelations. It consists
of the Sun, Venus and Mercury in Leo, (kabbalist symbol of the
Lion); Mars and the Moon in Scorpio, (kabbalist symbol of the Eagle);
Saturn and Jupiter in Taurus, (the calf or cow); and
Neptune and Uranus in Aquarius, (man). The Grand Cross therefore
features the Sun, Moon and major planets all located within
just 4 of the 12 cantons. And it occurs just 7 days after the total
solar eclipse of August 11th, an event regarded by the ancients as
symbolising the opening of a portal between the Earth and Heaven.

Rev 4, 1-7 - "..........and behold, a door was opened in heaven; [solar
eclipse]..........and in the midst of the throne, and round about
the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind, [the
heavenly bodies]. And the first beast was like a lion, [Leo], and
the second beast like a calf, [Taurus], and the third beast had a face
as a man, [Aquarius], and the fourth beast was like a flying
eagle, [Scorpio]. "

Now, whilst NASA are admittedly more concerned with astronomy than
astrology, surely they must have been aware of the
Christian religious significance of August 18th 1999? So why did they
pick this date to perform this highly risky fly-by?

Are they, as conspiracy theorists suggest, controlled by right-wing
Masonic groups determined to either fulfil biblical prophecy or,
alternately, initiate a "New World Order" takeover of the Earth.

I guess we'll soon find out.

----------------

later

Nick  (repenting as we speak)

>
> And to Dana and Nick, I enjoyed the thread on 'Nixon, drugs, etc.'... I
thought I'd recommend a
> particularly lucid book, "And the Truth shall set you free" by- I can't
remember his name but I
> will post it asap- anyways, among other tidbits, JFK's dad was well
connected to the Mafia and
> apparently made a lot of promises in return for their support, and this
goes for a lot of other
> groups, meanwhile JFK gets elected, is sickened with the corruption and
decides to fight it,
> stepping on a lot of toes... Oswald was a patsy, as he claimed, because he
was supposedly offered a
> chance to play 'secret hero', not to shoot the president, which he would
not have done, but shoot
> close by where then the CIA would claim it was Cuban terrorists which
attempted the presidential
> assassination and win public support for an open invasion.... what can I
say, I'm not doing justice
> to this book, however it helps to understand that organizations with
hidden agendas, such as the
> CIA, could not thrive without a 'front', meaning, the majority of its
constituency is far from
> being aware of what the core group's other hand is up to.... anyways, a
long night, no sleep and
> java have contributed, for better or worse,  to this rather long post,
>
> forever endeavor,
> Adam Gur

just my silly 2 cents (OT) about Cassini...

I'm plaining to take Iboga(ine) next september, just in the little italian
village- near France- were G.D. Cassini was born
(& my mother , too) -
...very strange.
ciao
g.i.s.

To join the ibogaine list see instructions below:

> >send email to listproc@... with the subject blank and >with the body
> >containing nothing but the following four words:
>
> >subscribe ibogaine <firstname> <lastname>

Adam Gur wrote:
>
> hello to all,
>
> I happened to have experienced this phenomena (sleep paralysis) quite a few
times and I guess I'm
> among the lucky ones since I interpreted it - while it's happening- as being
disconnected from my
> physical body ... the experience itself is far from pleasant but I nonetheless
managed on a few
> occasions to recreate it as I'm about to fall asleep...  however I doubt if we
explained away alien
> abduction with this one phenomena,

This phenomena has occured to me so many times I reckon I know about it
now. What happens is you awaken whilst making the nightime transfer from
physical to emotional body or back again. Because your physical body is
paralysed during REM sleep, it first scares the shit out of you because
you believe someone's in your room holding you down. Especially if you
are sleeping alone at the time.

After a while you get used to it. You can induce these experiences by
putting yourself into an emotionally stressed state prior to sleeping -
think about that girl/boy who dumped you years ago, cat dying when you
were a kid, whatever. If the stress is great enough you'll move quickly
into your emotional body once you slip beneath consciousness. I've even
managed to remain conscious whilst losing consciousness (!!) a couple of
times. It's like being drawn into the whirlpool than forms when the plug
is pulled out of the bath.


  it wasn't a hag that crashed into Rosewell and cars aren't
> supposed to get paralyzed, at most we can attribute alot of these claims to
this phenomena but
> surely not all....
> AND in the good news department, I am set to go to Cameroun, .... I want to
thank this group for
> making this possible and for the support, especially Nick, Larry and Wayne....
and being a
> graphic/web/3d designer, I intend to create my own site on Iboga- to that end
I will bring a camera
> and start a journal, I am particularly interested in seeing how I draw
afterwards... no
> expectations, I know.....

My guitar playing improved no end after my last ibogaine session. There
again, it couldn't get much worse.

>
> About wormwood (Nick), I'm not sure but I believe the passage has been
attributed to the Chernobyl
> accident, you may want to check on that, from what I recall, Chernobyl means
wormwood (or maybe
> redwood) in Russian- what I do remember clearly is that the nuclear plant was
named after the
> nearby forest which was named after the popular tree to that region... and
there is a river that
> runs right next to it... however, that part about falling out of the sky
seemed to have been
> omitted from any previous quotes I read...

Yes, wormwood is Ukranian for Chernobyl and is so associated slightly
with radiation poisoning. It's pretty weak, I agree, but good for
scaring people. I think the Cassini fly-by's now scheduled for August
18th 1999. Which is also the day of the Great Cross.

------------

In addition, August 18 1999 is the date of the Grand Cross Astrology
pattern forming in the skies, where the planets are grouped in
a cross shape. This is regarded by many astronomers as the most unusual
astrological pattern of the last 2,000 years and some
believe it is also referred to in the Book of Revelations. It consists
of the Sun, Venus and Mercury in Leo, (kabbalist symbol of the
Lion); Mars and the Moon in Scorpio, (kabbalist symbol of the Eagle);
Saturn and Jupiter in Taurus, (the calf or cow); and
Neptune and Uranus in Aquarius, (man). The Grand Cross therefore
features the Sun, Moon and major planets all located within
just 4 of the 12 cantons. And it occurs just 7 days after the total
solar eclipse of August 11th, an event regarded by the ancients as
symbolising the opening of a portal between the Earth and Heaven.

Rev 4, 1-7 - "..........and behold, a door was opened in heaven; [solar
eclipse]..........and in the midst of the throne, and round about
the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind, [the
heavenly bodies]. And the first beast was like a lion, [Leo], and
the second beast like a calf, [Taurus], and the third beast had a face
as a man, [Aquarius], and the fourth beast was like a flying
eagle, [Scorpio]. "

Now, whilst NASA are admittedly more concerned with astronomy than
astrology, surely they must have been aware of the
Christian religious significance of August 18th 1999? So why did they
pick this date to perform this highly risky fly-by?

Are they, as conspiracy theorists suggest, controlled by right-wing
Masonic groups determined to either fulfil biblical prophecy or,
alternately, initiate a "New World Order" takeover of the Earth.

I guess we'll soon find out.

----------------

later

Nick  (repenting as we speak)

>
> And to Dana and Nick, I enjoyed the thread on 'Nixon, drugs, etc.'... I
thought I'd recommend a
> particularly lucid book, "And the Truth shall set you free" by- I can't
remember his name but I
> will post it asap- anyways, among other tidbits, JFK's dad was well connected
to the Mafia and
> apparently made a lot of promises in return for their support, and this goes
for a lot of other
> groups, meanwhile JFK gets elected, is sickened with the corruption and
decides to fight it,
> stepping on a lot of toes... Oswald was a patsy, as he claimed, because he was
supposedly offered a
> chance to play 'secret hero', not to shoot the president, which he would not
have done, but shoot
> close by where then the CIA would claim it was Cuban terrorists which
attempted the presidential
> assassination and win public support for an open invasion.... what can I say,
I'm not doing justice
> to this book, however it helps to understand that organizations with hidden
agendas, such as the
> CIA, could not thrive without a 'front', meaning, the majority of its
constituency is far from
> being aware of what the core group's other hand is up to.... anyways, a long
night, no sleep and
> java have contributed, for better or worse,  to this rather long post,
>
> forever endeavor,
> Adam Gur

hello to all,

I happened to have experienced this phenomena (sleep paralysis) quite a few
times and I guess I'm
among the lucky ones since I interpreted it - while it's happening- as being
disconnected from my
physical body ... the experience itself is far from pleasant but I nonetheless
managed on a few
occasions to recreate it as I'm about to fall asleep...  however I doubt if we
explained away alien
abduction with this one phenomena, it wasn't a hag that crashed into Rosewell
and cars aren't
supposed to get paralyzed, at most we can attribute alot of these claims to this
phenomena but
surely not all....
AND in the good news department, I am set to go to Cameroun, .... I want to
thank this group for
making this possible and for the support, especially Nick, Larry and Wayne....
and being a
graphic/web/3d designer, I intend to create my own site on Iboga- to that end I
will bring a camera
and start a journal, I am particularly interested in seeing how I draw
afterwards... no
expectations, I know.....

About wormwood (Nick), I'm not sure but I believe the passage has been
attributed to the Chernobyl
accident, you may want to check on that, from what I recall, Chernobyl means
wormwood (or maybe
redwood) in Russian- what I do remember clearly is that the nuclear plant was
named after the
nearby forest which was named after the popular tree to that region... and there
is a river that
runs right next to it... however, that part about falling out of the sky seemed
to have been
omitted from any previous quotes I read...

And to Dana and Nick, I enjoyed the thread on 'Nixon, drugs, etc.'... I thought
I'd recommend a
particularly lucid book, "And the Truth shall set you free" by- I can't remember
his name but I
will post it asap- anyways, among other tidbits, JFK's dad was well connected to
the Mafia and
apparently made a lot of promises in return for their support, and this goes for
a lot of other
groups, meanwhile JFK gets elected, is sickened with the corruption and decides
to fight it,
stepping on a lot of toes... Oswald was a patsy, as he claimed, because he was
supposedly offered a
chance to play 'secret hero', not to shoot the president, which he would not
have done, but shoot
close by where then the CIA would claim it was Cuban terrorists which attempted
the presidential
assassination and win public support for an open invasion.... what can I say,
I'm not doing justice
to this book, however it helps to understand that organizations with hidden
agendas, such as the
CIA, could not thrive without a 'front', meaning, the majority of its
constituency is far from
being aware of what the core group's other hand is up to.... anyways, a long
night, no sleep and
java have contributed, for better or worse,  to this rather long post,

forever endeavor,
Adam Gur

I don't remember exactly how I subscribed to this list.  I want to tell
someone else how to do it but I forget how.  Will someone post how it is
done so I can tell someone else how to join?  Thanks
--Fish

>Dana, I think too much IBO when your start talking about space voyage and
>such.
>"lol"
>
>WR

The point of the theory is, there are no space aliens. The abductions are
not happening. Or rather, they're a form of "old hag's syndrome." Which is
an Ibo-like natural state.

Dana/cnw

Dana, I think too much IBO when your start talking about space voyage and
such.
"lol"

WR

Lenny Czermak wrote:
>
> Sorry if I'm repeating territory already covered, but I'm at the beginning
> of my learning curve with Iboga.
> Does anybody have any experience of the initiation available in the south of
> France. I am interested in going, because I am eager to experience Iboga and
> the cost ($1200) though high, is within my reach just.
> Is Iboga available anywhere else in Europe, that is less far to travel. I
> live in London.
>
> Thanks
>
> Len


see

http://perso.club-internet.fr/ideesun/ecure.htm

or

http://www.iboga.org/ecure.htm

Nzo

Sorry if I'm repeating territory already covered, but I'm at the beginning
of my learning curve with Iboga.
Does anybody have any experience of the initiation available in the south of
France. I am interested in going, because I am eager to experience Iboga and
the cost ($1200) though high, is within my reach just.
Is Iboga available anywhere else in Europe, that is less far to travel. I
live in London.

Thanks

Len

Some stuff for Dana and others interested in this area.

-------------

Is there a reference to iboga in the last book of the Bible - The
Revelation of St John?

Rev 10, 1 - 11, (King James), speaks of a mighty angel descending from
Heaven, carrying a small book. The narrator, St John, is told to take
the book from the angel and eat it, for it will cause him to prophesy
again, which he must do, though it's taste is very bitter in the belly.

This angel is generally regarded as being the archangel Michael. In
Bwiti mythology, Michael is the brother of Jesus. Before they are sent
down to Earth, God says to the two brothers that one must take the Bible
to the White Man, and the other take iboga to the Black Man. Jesus
elects the former task, and his life becomes the New Testament. Michael
gets the second and teaches Bwiti to the Black Man.

Prophetic visions or precognitive experiences are quite common to people
taking ibogaine or iboga. My personal theory to explain this is that we
evolved to experience time as a flowing series of "now's", denying us
access to what we call the future, by our ancestors consuming iboga in
plant form, and thereby altering our genetic makeup permanently. Note
that many animals are credited with having precognitive vision fitted as
standard, (Sheldrake etc). And that when we consume iboga now, the
future-vision blocking aspect of our makeup is temporarily overidden.

Consequently, the angel Michael giving someone something that makes the
belly bitter, but the mouth, (of prophesy), sweet fits pretty close to
this passage from Revelation.

---------------------

Book of Revelations watchers and Doom merchants in general may also
enjoy the following I'm occasionally working on - when I've got nothing
better to do. Unfortunately, its shelf life is now somewhat limited.

Nick


> Mid August 1999, Nasa are attempting a highly perilous Earth fly-by for
> the Cassini space probe. If it goes wrong, 72.3 lbs of radioactive
> plutonium, the most toxic substance known, will be scattered across the
> Earth. Is this predicted in the Book of Revelation?
>
> Rev 8, 10-11 (King James) - ...........and there fell a great star from
> Heaven, [Cassini space probe], burning as it were a lamp, [burning up on
> re-entry], and it fell upon a third part of the rivers, and upon the
> fountains of waters; [polluting the water supply], and the name of the
> star is called Wormwood, [haven't done this bit yet]; and the third part
> of the waters became wormwood, [wormwood associated with radiation
> poisoning in Russia, so I'm informed, haven't checked yet];
> and many men died of the waters because they were made bitter.
>
> Any insights as to Cassini - Wormwood connection, or Cassini - third
> angel/star connection greatly appreciated. All for a good cause.
>
>