Though I've been on the list for awhile I haven't previously posted but I
really
want to concur with pretty much everything Nick said in his post. This is
based on my
personal experience with both substances (though it's been over 15 years
since my
last experience of LSD). I would particularly emphasize the last point in
his post.
Paradoxically, there can be a particularly insidious ego INFLATION that
arises from experiences
of ego loss during the psychadelic experience for those without a real
spiritual maturity.
Subtle yet profound, this inflation can truly sabotage ones spiritual
growth in
some cases and the clear-eyed self awareness necessary to move past this is
not
possible for some experiencers, especially those who make psychadelics a
regular part of their
path. This perspective is based not only on my own experience but also
working with others
over the past two decades. Based on my experience, this particular pitfall
is not present with
ibogaine.

Walt
----------
>From: Nick Sandberg <nick.sandberg@...>
>To: wally1@...
>Subject: [IBOGAINE] re: ego death
>Date: Fri, Oct 6, 2000, 5:17 AM
>

>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Brett Mann" <bretmann@...>
>To: <nick.sandberg@...>
>Sent: 05 October 2000 22:03
>Subject: [IBOGAINE] Re: [IBOGAINE] ego death
>
>
>> Howard - I agree with your observation. Viewed from the perspective that
>> both substances are teaching - vehicles for the spirit and consciousness,
>> it appears to me that ibogaine is the province of more therapeutically
>> oriented or more experienced consciousness explorers.
>>
>> LSD's capacity to demolish the ego can be tremendously liberating and
>> healing, but the Sufis say (I've read) that we all have a false and a real
>> ego.
>>
>> LSD appears to be able to dissolve rigid and narrow world views and
>> self-boundaries by in essence, returning consciousness to a fertile,
>> infantile like state. One can look at a telephone or other common object
>> while peaking on LSD and wonder, "what's this? Something you eat?"
>>
>> But not all that we have learned, often painfully, needs to be unlearned,
>> and spiritual development seems to me largely the process of integrating
>> learned truths into our lives (egos). It is this evolving, authentic ego, I
>> think, which is addressed by ibogaine. I'm sure this thought isn't original
>> on this list, but I believe ibogaine does not disrupt normal ego function
>> that much because an intact ego is required to assimilate the deeper
>> knowledge ibogaine may offer.
>>
>> I don't know if this is the type of response you were looking for - from a
>> neurological viewpoint, might ego function remain intact in the ibogaine
>> experience because deeper brain structures (closer to critical life
>> support areas) are more involved? My impression is that the subjective
>> experience of LSD is based mainly in the neo-cortex.
>>
>> Brett Mann
>
>I very much doubt that neurologists are going to have much success
>locating the ego at a neuroanatomical level.
>
>It would seem all truths are resolved into paradox at a mental level and
>so the fundamental dualism of 'is the mind in the world or the world in
>the mind?' will be as close as anyone can approach the question of
>'location' here.
>
>The concept of ego-death may be a bit of a misnomer with LSD
>experiences, in my opinion. I think 'ego-loss' is a better term, as the
>period of ego-less existence invariably lasts only while the drug is in
>the system.
>
>Also worth mentioning that for some users, the ego, in my opinion,
>actually digs in a lot deeper in the long run with sustained usage of
>psychedelics.
>
>Nick
>
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