Hi all-

I have 8 days to prepare for seeing my first client with

Phantom Limb pain/distress. I've done some reading in the

past and am really looking forward to a productive session.

The client & I have really connected over the phone, he's

motivated & believes our time will help him get relief, and

I was highly recommended to him by a third party

professional.



Plus I KNOW I can get him some relief. I want to maximize

the odds of extraordinary effectiveness.



If anyone has worked on this problem, I'd be very

interested in your experiences, ideas, tips, suggestions,

and techniques (and even cautions.)



Thanks



Keep tappin'

Roy L. Streit, CHt.

positive@...

Rio Rancho, NM







__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more

http://games.yahoo.com/

I have worked very successfully with phantom pain. Many cases.



It is very rewarding. I made a cassette for it, but I don't know if I

still have the master. If I do I could send one to you. One of the

phantom pain cases was treated over the phone and in three sessions it

was gone completely. A year later he called and told me it was still

gone.



One of the problems for these people is that the pain specialists get

them on morphine (which cant seem to reach the non-existent lib) which

causes additional problems.



I was asked to give a seminar to the amputee society at their yearly

convention. If you choose to work with this, you will be doing a great

service to this community.



Wendi



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Wendi Friesen CHT

www.wendi.com

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    to change your mind

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> -----Original Message-----

> From: Roy Streit, CHt. [mailto:ziaroy@...]

> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 5:17 AM

> To: hypnosis-hypnotherapy@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: [hypno] RE: Phantom Limb

>

> Hi all-

> I have 8 days to prepare for seeing my first client with

> Phantom Limb pain/distress. I've done some reading in the

> past and am really looking forward to a productive session.

> The client & I have really connected over the phone, he's

> motivated & believes our time will help him get relief, and

> I was highly recommended to him by a third party

> professional.

>

> Plus I KNOW I can get him some relief. I want to maximize

> the odds of extraordinary effectiveness.

>

> If anyone has worked on this problem, I'd be very

> interested in your experiences, ideas, tips, suggestions,

> and techniques (and even cautions.)

>

> Thanks

>

> Keep tappin'

> Roy L. Streit, CHt.

> positive@...

> Rio Rancho, NM

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 23/04/02 13:41:48 GMT Daylight Time, ziaroy@...

writes:





> <A HREF="mailto:ziaroy@...">ziaroy@...</A>





Hello Roy,



I will backchannel you with details of a guy I met in Scotland recently who

is having great success with this problem.



Warmly



Mair





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Roy Streit, CHt. wrote:



> Hi all-

> I have 8 days to prepare for seeing my first client with

> Phantom Limb pain/distress. I've done some reading in the

> past and am really looking forward to a productive session.

> The client & I have really connected over the phone, he's

> motivated & believes our time will help him get relief, and

> I was highly recommended to him by a third party

> professional.

>

> Plus I KNOW I can get him some relief. I want to maximize

> the odds of extraordinary effectiveness.

>

> If anyone has worked on this problem, I'd be very

> interested in your experiences, ideas, tips, suggestions,

> and techniques (and even cautions.)

>

> Thanks

>

> Keep tappin'

> Roy L. Streit, CHt.

> positive@...

> Rio Rancho, NM



I would simply work with the phantom limb as real and heal it. The pain is

real to the client. So, facilitating its healing will fit the model of the

client, will it not? You can probably find some stuff on the internet about

Kirlian photography and the presence of the lost limb's aura, even though

the physical limb is gone. That will lend weight to the idea of healing it

energetically and allow them to develop it as a tool for other-than-physical

tasks, such as rapport, emotional cues, and sensitivity to their own states

of being, electromagnetic fields, or whatever. You can liken it to the well

known phenomenon of people who lose a sense and their other sense heighten

to give them information that was previously outside of consciousness.



hope that helps,



Thomas

Finally after being certified getting first client

Saturday for weight loss, a little nervous but know I

can do it Wish me luck.



Cornel Knight CHt



__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more

http://games.yahoo.com/

Cool! Good luck on your first session ^_^



-Dave



On Wednesday 24 April 2002 23:29, you wrote:

> Finally after being certified getting first client

> Saturday for weight loss, a little nervous but know I

> can do it Wish me luck.

>

> Cornel Knight CHt

Cornel,

Yes, you can do it and will do it.  Much success to

you.



Bob Choat



--- Cornel Knight <knightmagic2000@...> wrote:

>

> Finally after being certified getting first client

> Saturday for weight loss, a little nervous but know

> I

> can do it Wish me luck.

>

> Cornel Knight CHt

>

> __________________________________________________

> Do You Yahoo!?

> Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more

> http://games.yahoo.com/

>

>





__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

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http://games.yahoo.com/

My wife and I are new to Hypnosis. We are presently doing the Omni

home course. We had our first client, a dear friend of ours that has

a problem with pain in her legs. We believe that we will be primarily

doing the regression to cause once we finish our course and are

pretty excited about our future in hypnotherapy.

Before we started the session I gave her a pre talk and then

proceeded to use the Elman induction. Everything seemed to be going

good until I got to willing the numbers away. The first time I told

her that after the number 98 she would forget but she went right on

counting 98,97,96,95 in her regular voice. I then did  the arm drop

method and told her when her arm drops she would go twice as deep

into relaxation and then some refractioning and then went back to the

numbers and she still could not will them away. At this point I

emerged her and decided to do a quick induction followered by a 10 to

1 deepening count with eye testing and arm drop which seemed to work

fine. I went back to the numbers and she just kept on counting after

the number that I set for her. I emerged her again and we talked

about what had happen. I then proceeded with another rapid induction

but she was anticipating everything I was going to say. We ended the

session and I told her I would see her next week in the mean time do

some research as to what I could have done better. Not telling her

that she did anything wrong. Actually we figured for our education it

would be better to have a tough case first.

What I think happen is that she just would not or could not listen or

follow what I was saying. Especially when I gave her the last rapid

induction having her push down on my hand while I pushed up and also

having her stare at the point between my eyes, well she was going

into trance before I said sleep and not pushing up on my hand even

though I was constantly telling her to push down she was defiantly

anticipating my moves. Any feed back would be great, thanking you all

in advance.

--- In hypnosis-hypnotherapy@yahoogroups.com, "aura200870"

<franmar50@...> wrote:

> My wife and I are new to Hypnosis. We are presently doing the Omni

  home course. We had our first client, a dear friend of ours that has

a problem with pain in her legs. We believe that we will be primarily

doing the regression to cause once we finish our course and are pretty

excited about our future in hypnotherapy.



Do you mean you're doing regression hypnotherapy solely on the basis of

a home study course?  Most organisations strongly recommend that

hypnotherapists have at least a minimum amount of classroom skills

training and clinical supervision.



Donald Robertson

Some people have a real affinity for numbers and won't let go of them

no matter what you suggest. This would include people like accountants

and bookkeepers. Their livelihood depends on numbers. Other people

just aren't willing to "forget" things. A couple of things you might

try and see if they enhance your success. First, when explaining to

them what I want them to do, I always tell my clients, "It's okay to

let the numbers go because they will be there for you later when you

need them. That won't be a problem at all, so it's okay to let them

disappear only for the purpose of relaxing your mind". Another thing

you might try is switching from numbers to the alphabet. Some people

find it easier to let go of letters of the alphabet than numbers.



There are other, more subtle ways, to get the amnesia. The beautiful

thing about the Elman is that it includes a built in test so that you

know you have it. The other methods require you to test for it

separately.



Another suggestion is that you might check out some of the modified

Elman inductions. For example, I always have my client count up from

one instead of down from 100. When they count down, they can have a

goal in mind (count all the way to one). However, by counting up they

could theoretically count to infinity, so there is no potential goal

for the "over-achievers" you may be working with. I also never tell

them at what number they will disappear. This again issues a challenge

and if it doesn't happen then gives the appearance of failure. I

simply say, "After just a very few numbers, you'll find that they rest

of the numbers begin to float and drift and fade away into nothing,

nothing, nothing."



One last thought. Since this is a close friend, if she knows that you

are new to hypnotism and inexperienced it is going to be much more

difficult for her to see you as an expert. Therefore, she may be much

more hesitant to follow your suggestions no matter what they are.

Exude confidence! Remember, compared to her You Are the expert!



Hope this helps, or a least gives you something to think about!



Johnie Fredman

www.heartlandhypnosisservices.com



On Jan 9, 2009, at 1:55 PM, aura200870 wrote:



> My wife and I are new to Hypnosis. We are presently doing the Omni

> home course. We had our first client, a dear friend of ours that has

> a problem with pain in her legs. We believe that we will be primarily

> doing the regression to cause once we finish our course and are

> pretty excited about our future in hypnotherapy.

> Before we started the session I gave her a pre talk and then

> proceeded to use the Elman induction. Everything seemed to be going

> good until I got to willing the numbers away. The first time I told

> her that after the number 98 she would forget but she went right on

> counting 98,97,96,95 in her regular voice. I then did the arm drop

> method and told her when her arm drops she would go twice as deep

> into relaxation and then some refractioning and then went back to the

> numbers and she still could not will them away. At this point I

> emerged her and decided to do a quick induction followered by a 10 to

> 1 deepening count with eye testing and arm drop which seemed to work

> fine. I went back to the numbers and she just kept on counting after

> the number that I set for her. I emerged her again and we talked

> about what had happen. I then proceeded with another rapid induction

> but she was anticipating everything I was going to say. We ended the

> session and I told her I would see her next week in the mean time do

> some research as to what I could have done better. Not telling her

> that she did anything wrong. Actually we figured for our education it

> would be better to have a tough case first.

> What I think happen is that she just would not or could not listen or

> follow what I was saying. Especially when I gave her the last rapid

> induction having her push down on my hand while I pushed up and also

> having her stare at the point between my eyes, well she was going

> into trance before I said sleep and not pushing up on my hand even

> though I was constantly telling her to push down she was defiantly

> anticipating my moves. Any feed back would be great, thanking you all

> in advance.

>

>

>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

While I agree with Don that regression to cause should be done only after in

person training, I don't think that is the question that you were asking.



As far as numbers disappearing... I don't believe that is as big of an issue as

you do.  If all of the other responsivity tests were there, it might just be

that she is a numbers person and the very idea of forgetting numbers is hard for

her.  Check for other physical signs of hypnosis, and then just let her relax

her mind in any way she choses.  I personally have never actually let the

numbers fade totally away... but there comes a point where even though I know

full well what number comes next, the effort to say it is just too great.  You

say she could not "will them away" but the will is very much a function of the

conscious mind.



Beware of the law of reversed effect.  The harder a person "tries" to do

something, the less likely they are to do it.   If you are looking for signs

like rapid eye movement, flushed skin tone, relaxed muscles, you can easily

gauge the depth of the trance through those.  If you are stuck on the

disappearing numbers, you will never get to the real work of hypnotherapy. 

Perhaps you could incorporate her remembering of the numbers into the trance, to

remind her that she is in control of the trance process, and that she can use

that realization to deepen the relaxation of her mind to just the right depth

that her subconscious mind knows is right for her.



Nothing wrong with a client anticipating your moves.  I like to call that

self-hypnosis.  Remember that the experience of trance is different for each

person.  Again, praise her for being so receptive to trance and for learning her

self-hypnosis so quickly, and you will get much further than trying to demand

the resonse you want.



Linda

It's good to read that you and your wife are so enthusiastic but, I'm afraid

to say, your story really shows the weaknesses of a correspondence course.

The whole approach seems rather 'scatter-gun' and unrehearsed which would be

avoided by attending a class-based course.







I would not assume that you will be solely working with regression to cause

either. There are many ways to help your future clients and regression to

cause 1) may not be very effective for a lot of them and 2) may be the wrong

approach for certain conditions (e.g. specific phobia with no previous

trauma).







I am also confused that it seems that both you and your wife are practicing

hypnosis at the same time. How does this work?







Please...keep up the enthusiasm but don't assume anything. You will get so

much more out of this if you are as open-minded as you will be asking your

clients to be. And try and find some classroom lessons or even a local

hypnotherapy group.







Best of luck.







Duncan Gunn MNCH(Lic) GHR(Reg)











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Strewth!



Save us from home study courses!  It is like reading the highway code and

then deciding that you can drive.   In theory it would work.... but I bet

you would not like to be the passenger.



May I respectfully suggest that you consider some form of real life

teaching.







Ian Price

Director



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 1/10/2009 2:51:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

johnie@... writes:



There  are other, more subtle ways, to get the amnesia. The beautiful

thing  about the Elman is that it includes a built in test so that you

know  you have it. The other methods require you to test for it separately.

I have always had a problem with this assumption. When I'm suggesting that

someone allow those numbers to grow dim and distant and fade away and the

client  does this, all it means is that they are good at visualizing or 

imagining

those numbers fading away. I can do this without trance.



Unless you go further and test for amnesia of the numbers, like asking them

to try to count, you can't prove anything. Where is the research that Elman

was  pulling from and how did he know it's somnambulism? I'm always a little

doubtful when some hypnotists claim that you must get somnambulism to achieve

most changes, when research seems to refute that time and time again. Not only

the fact that it seems only a small percentage can achieve true somnambulism

(whatever the hell that is) but also that, for many, suggestion seems to work

  just as well with out any formal trance.



I teach and use variations of the Elman induction because it's rapid and

achieves a nice state of trance. Is somnambulism built into it? I have no idea.

As soon as I hear anything said with conviction in this mind field we play in,

I  get, well, a little curious...



What do you all think?



Happy New Year!

Melissa







**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy

steps!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You'll notice my post never mentioned somnambulism. That is because I

too am not sure where that concept developed or how accurate it is.

Not only can I achieve numbers fading away without trance, I contend

there is practically nothing that can be achieved in trance that

cannot be achieved without formal trance in the right person. People

stop smoking, lose weight, increase their self-image, etc. all the

time without formal trance. Even something as dynamic as a human

bridge can be accomplished without a formal trance with the right

subject.



The Elman does have a built in test that you have amnesia, or that the

person has allowed the numbers to drift away. At the very least, you

have a compliant subject. That is all that is required for behavior

modification. Those who have studied it more extensively than I have

state almost unanimously that somnambulism must be achieved in order

to do true regression techniques. I don't have any legitimate research

to show either way. Some, like Jerry Kein, teach that 100% of people

can achieve somnambulism, but he uses the Elman induction to show that

they are there because they lost the numbers.



I recently purchased Elman's book, Hypnotherapy. Hopefully it will

shed some light for me on his thinking on this subject.



Johnie Fredman

www.heartlandhypnosisservices.com



On Jan 10, 2009, at 2:27 PM, MMTIERS@... wrote:



>

>

> In a message dated 1/10/2009 2:51:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

johnie@...

>  writes:

> There are other, more subtle ways, to get the amnesia. The beautiful

> thing about the Elman is that it includes a built in test so that you

> know you have it. The other methods require you to test for it

> separately.

> I have always had a problem with this assumption. When I'm

> suggesting that someone allow those numbers to grow dim and distant

> and fade away and the client does this, all it means is that they

> are good at visualizing or imagining those numbers fading away. I

> can do this without trance.

>

> Unless you go further and test for amnesia of the numbers, like

> asking them to try to count, you can't prove anything. Where is the

> research that Elman was pulling from and how did he know it's

> somnambulism? I'm always a little doubtful when some hypnotists

> claim that you must get somnambulism to achieve most changes, when

> research seems to refute that time and time again. Not only the fact

> that it seems only a small percentage can achieve true somnambulism

> (whatever the hell that is) but also that, for many, suggestion

> seems to work just as well with out any formal trance.

>

> I teach and use variations of the Elman induction because it's rapid

> and achieves a nice state of trance. Is somnambulism built into it?

> I have no idea. As soon as I hear anything said with conviction in

> this mind field we play in, I get, well, a little curious...

>

> What do you all think?

>

> Happy New Year!

> Melissa

>

>

>

>

>

> A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In hypnosis-hypnotherapy@yahoogroups.com, Johnie Fredman

<johnie@...> wrote:

> You'll notice my post never mentioned somnambulism. That is because

I too am not sure where that concept developed or how accurate it is.



The concept of "artificial somnambulism" derives from the Marquis de

Puysegur, a follower of Mesmer.  It was traditionally used in

Victorian hypnotism to refer to the small minority (5-10% as Braid

claims) of hypnotic subjects who spontaneously experienced

(reversible) amnesia for most of the session.  It was also called

the "double consciousness" state by Braid because it was believed

that the subject responded by means of a dissociated personality,

independent of their waking personality.



Elman probably misuses the terminology, as he also does (very badly)

with the term "abreaction".  He wasn't much of a theorist.



To point out a glaring anomaly...  If a state of blanket amnesia is

being induced then how on earth do Elman's clients continue to

remember and discuss what they relived during regression after being

emerged?  If you listen to the tapes of his sessions it seems pretty

obvious that his clients aren't experiencing amnesia at all.



It seems likely that Elman, and those people who depend upon his

work, have misunderstood what "somnambulism" usually means in

hypnosis and are causing further confusion by their misuse of the

term.



In terms of gettting people to fade the numbers from their mind, by

far the easiest way to overcome lack of response is to briefly role-

model it yourself so that the client has something to imitate.



Donald Robertson

I don't recall the original posters name, but you might want to check out

one of the other lists like the hypnosis technique exchange, or

www.hypnothoughts.com



You'll find a lot less of the attitudes you've been getting.



I've got a couple of Jerrys vids, and his instant induction vid is great.

I'm sure his full program rocks.





As another poster mentioned, forgetting the numbers is just a small part of

it.

They can hold on to the numbers if they really want. But as long as they are

responsive, then you have a green light to teach them to have some fun. And

eventually you can do some more serious work.



Jorge