"aura200870" wrote:

> My wife and I are new to Hypnosis. We are presently doing the Omni
> home course.

Hi aura200870,

I'd address you by name, but you didn't provide one.

Anyway...

While there is nothing *wrong* with self-study - I do a lot of it, myself -
its main drawback is that there is nobody watching what you're doing in
practice so s/he can mentor and guide you and give you iterative feedback
based on your ongoing adjustments and corrections.

> We had our first client, a dear friend of ours that has
> a problem with pain in her legs. We believe that we will be primarily
> doing the regression to cause once we finish our course and are
> pretty excited about our future in hypnotherapy.

What I do have a problem with is "regression to cause" and "initial
sensitizing events."

What good does it do your dear friend to know "the cause?" Here are a few
questions to consider that relate to this. You can probably come up with a
bunch of others, starting from this point:

1a) What if she gets the cause wrong?
1b) What if what she today thinks is the cause is later refuted in favour of
something else? If she were "fixed" after *knowing* the cause, does she go
back to being unfixed after realizing she was wrong about what she thought
was the cause?
2a) How does knowing the cause make anything better?
2b) For instance, I can know that my car doesn't run because the fuel
injector is gummed up. But, unless I know how to "ungum" it, how am I any
better off?
3a) How is "regression to cause" going to help someone with a congenital
defect, suffered from birth?
3b) What if the person has no clue what the "initial sensitizing event" is,
or doesn't want to find out (e.g. a war veteran not wanting to revisit the
loss of his leg)?

Regression is very similar to timeline therapy. I think they're both great
tools for helping with certain aspects of some issues, and can be great for
personal interests such as PLR, but they're not swiss-army hypnotherapy
tools, and they can even be needlessly (emotionally) painful for some
clients. Timeline and regression are not one-method-fixes-all approaches to
client issue satisfaction. Nor is hypnosis itself, for that matter.

It's my opinion that you would be better off (as a hypnotist) to be really
great at framing the client's presenting and core issues, understanding how
to elicit and change beliefs, and how to understand the difference between
the map and the territory (perception and the fact that reality is plastic).

If a client can forget about her pain while you have guided her into trance,
and while she stays in trance, how does that affect her reality WRT pain?
How does that affect her perception of *that* pain from a "what's real and
what's imagined" point of view?

Can you get the client to that point - where the pain is no longer part of
her reality for a finite amount of time? If it were me working with that
client, while she is hypnotized, I'd be thinking about giving her a control
panel for her pain, so she can dial it up or down without my help.

> Before we started the session I gave her a pre talk and then
> proceeded to use the Elman induction. Everything seemed to be going
> good until I got to willing the numbers away. The first time I told
> her that after the number 98 she would forget but she went right on
> counting 98,97,96,95 in her regular voice.

The problem with most formulaic inductions is that new hypnotists look at
them as magic recipes. First do this. Add a smidgeon of this.
Presto-change-o! You are hypnotized! If you instead understand the mechanics
of inducing trance and can deconstruct the process, you'll be far better at
executing it successfully.

Ask yourself this: what is the point of hypnosis? Why is it important for
the client to be in a hypnotic state? (leaving the "state" argument aside
for the moment)

Inducing hypnosis, IMO, gives the hypnotist the option of switching the
client from associated to disassociated as many times as required in order
to link a problem trigger to a resourceful outcome. But this is a whole
other discussion (which I'll be happy to go into another time). It may take
one switch between associated/disassociated, or it may take 100. You won't
know until you know.

The most important things to practice and LEARN for the budding hypnotist
are calibration and rapport. From the perspective of the hypnotist,
calibration is "how you measure/know" and rapport is "how you establish
compliance." There is no other point to calibration other than to measure
the degree of (a) rapport, (b) compliance, and (c) response. There is no
point to rapport other than to establish (a) respect, (b) attention, and (c)
compliance.

Are you paying attention to the signs that this specific client has shown
you that indicate progressively greater levels of compliance and response?
Are you seeing signs that from compliance and response, trance is
progressing? What I mean by that - the signs - could be a slackening jaw, a
thousand-yard stare (not just fixation, but unfocused fixation - carefully
watch the eyes, even if closed), breathing depth and rate, responsiveness to
suggestion, slackness of muscle tension (to test: pick up by the wrist and
drop arm. It should flop down. Or just the way the jaw can be loose and
unclenched).

Hypnosis isn't magic incantation. You are a guide, a technician, an observer
and reactor. Your job is to see how close the client is to trance and adjust
continually until she gets there. You can do this with a waking patter, or
you can do it with eyes closed.

If listening to Gerry Kein has given you the impression you just have to
follow these easy steps and use these established ingredients and you'll
drop anyone into trance, he's done you a grave disservice.

It takes practice and confidence to do "real" hypnosis. Each client is
different, and should not be treated as automatons.

> I then did the arm drop method

You "did" did you? How do you know you "did" it right? If self-study is your
preference, I'd strongly suggest additional reading and viewing of books and
videos that demonstrate a variety of types of trance so you can deconstruct
the common elements of each and understand what it is that REALLY makes
hypnosis induction work.

> and told her when her arm drops she would go twice as deep

You "told" her, eh? That could be one of the problems right there. What if
she doesn't like being "told?" Did you take time to find out if she's more
responsive to a permissive approach versus a directive approach? Do you know
her well enough to answer that for yourself?

For the most part, being indirect (permissive) is better than directive. The
vast majority of people will respond to permissive. Many will resist
directive, even after a good pre-talk. As adults, most of us naturally
anticipate and expect a polite request rather than an abrupt command.

What if instead of "telling" her, you "suggested" she observe herself go
"twice as deep?"

"And you may even notice that as your arm drops you can go twice as deep
now." <said while arm is dropping>

> into relaxation and then some refractioning

When you are doing the fractionation, are you paying attention to how she's
processing it? How are her eyes responding? Does she still look alert with
each eye opening? What about the rest of her? Is her breathing deepening? Is
her muscle tension slack? Is the eye opening and closing seemingly
reluctant? Are you testing her anticipation by staggering your count for the
opening and closure? That's a neglected means of trance calibration that
many hypnotists misuse or under-use, or simply don't understand. You have to
know why you are doing each step of any induction or you're wasting time
(yours and the client's).

> and then went back to the
> numbers and she still could not will them away.

Losing the numbers is just a test of responsiveness. If that's not working,
do something else. Don't get hung up on that. You either didn't get the
client to an adequately responsive state before doing this test, or you are
being too restrictive in your framing of it. If the client isn't really
invested in seeing and experiencing the numbers in her imagination, she's
not going to see them disappear. Remember that this is supposed to be a
double-bind sort of convincer. She's doing her own imagining of the numbers
and is supposed to see the numbers disappear in her own mind, on her own. If
they're not disappearing, it's because you haven't told her to make them
disappear. Make EACH number disappear, as opposed to having a specific
number be the point at which the numbers are no longer able to be manifested
in her imagination. So, if she's "expending more and more effort to TRY to
make these numbers appear (suggest this!), until they are barely shimmering
into view (suggest this!) and shimmering out of view... and perhaps by now,
as you continue to TRY to count them, they're now barely visible at all...
Until you FIND that nothing appears and you are no longer even saying the
numbers now. Just relax and notice your breathing deepening and your muscles
so loose and relaxed you almost can't notice your body is still attached -
your body may be over there, while your mind can be over here, listening to
the sound of my voice... <etc etc>"

> At this point I emerged her

Emerged her? It doesn't sound like there was much of anything from which to
emerge...at least, not yet.

> and decided to do a quick induction followered by a 10 to
> 1 deepening count with eye testing and arm drop which seemed to work
> fine. I went back to the numbers and she just kept on counting after
> the number that I set for her.

You were (are?) too hung up on the numbers. If YOU are hung up on it, how do
you think she'll be?

The numbers are merely a means of calibration and convincing. You don't have
to use that test/convincer.

> I emerged her again and we talked
> about what had happen. I then proceeded with another rapid induction
> but she was anticipating everything I was going to say. We ended the
> session and I told her I would see her next week in the mean time do
> some research as to what I could have done better. Not telling her
> that she did anything wrong. Actually we figured for our education it
> would be better to have a tough case first.

She is likely not "a tough case." I hope you didn't tell her that she was "a
tough case."

Each client will go into trance on his or her own terms. Trance is and isn't
a mystical and mysterious thing. It is in the experiential sense, but it
isn't in the application and practical sense. I find that my clients like to
hold onto the notion that there is mystery and intrigue to hypnosis. Why
disabuse them of the fun quotient? If you tell the client that the sort of
trance they'll experience in sessions with you is no more mysterious than
zoning out while driving or watching TV, what the hell is the client pay YOU
for? Let her believe that it's a wonderfully mysterious and powerful
thing...and something that she can learn to apply for herself without fully
understanding all of its hows and whys.

> What I think happen is that she just would not or could not listen or
> follow what I was saying.

I think it's just the opposite! I think YOU didn't follow the signs she was
giving you to show how well she was responding. As Don said, that's the
value of classroom instruction: you can be monitored, mentored, corrected,
adjusted, reviewed...and your confidence can be built up WAY better than it
can from reading and guessing at whether you're doing it right.

That's not to say it can't be done from self-study. A lot of what I learned
(though making and correcting mistakes) was through self-study. And even
classroom instruction is only a first step. PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE is
what makes your technique and execution better and better.

There are four general stages of competency:

1) unconscious incompetence - you don't know what it is, nor how to do it.

2) conscious incompetence - you know what it is, but now how to do it/what
to do with it.

3) conscious competence - you know what it is and how to do it, but have to
think your way through each step.

4) unconscious competence - you automatically do it without thinking about
it.

At this point, the hypnosis skills you described above are still at stage 2.
You will be at stage 3 when you are actually thinking about how to calibrate
your client's response (and not just following a recipe), when you
understand the mechanics of trance, and you are actually applying tests and
convincers to confirm trance (testing and convincing the client...and
yourself)...and all this before you are ready to go on to an actual
intervention. Remember: the hypnosis isn't the intervention, it's the
vehicle to enable the intervention to be applied.

Many new hypnotists confuse the trance itself with the intervention. Think
of the difference between trance and intervention as being similar in scope
to the difference between airplanes and vacation. Even if you're on a plane
for the duration of your vacation, "vacation" is how you experience your
time, rather than the vehicle you were in when you experienced it. Likewise,
even if the entire intervention is done in trance, the changework that may
be blended into the hypnotic patter: the tasks, language patterns,
metaphors, and suggestions are the intervention, not the induction,
deepening, or emerging. That said, the induction, deepening, and emerging
can (and should) be artfully interweaved with the intervention. Doing it,
though, requires a solid understanding of which is which.

> Especially when I gave her the last rapid induction having her push
> down on my hand while I pushed up and also having her stare at the
> point between my eyes, well she was going into trance before I said
> sleep and not pushing up on my hand even though I was constantly
> telling her to push down she was defiantly anticipating my moves.
> Any feed back would be great, thanking you all in advance.

She was defiant, was she?  LOL

At this point, you are evidently very focused on the 1-2-3 of the process
rather than how to actually do it, and what the point of each step is.

The shock induction is a wonderfully convincing and entertaining method for
experienced and CONFIDENT hypnotists - particularly for stage shows. I have
all kinds of time for good stage hypnotists. BUT! Until you are confident
that you can actually induce trance and work with a person in trance, I'd
suggest using a less hit-and-miss approach.

The shock induction is very easy to screw up (if you don't "deepen" right
away - which is just another way of saying, "if you don't establish
imaginative involvement").

You MUST be completely confident and smooth in your execution, regardless of
your preferred methods. Hypnosis requires excellent follow-through and lots
of rehearsal. BUT! Shock inductions are more for the benefit of the audience
than for the client.

While I'm at it, let me add that there is a myth about shock inductions:
namely, that you are saving time by using them. The fact is that trance is
still going to require imaginative involvement. You still have to invest the
same amount of time to establish imaginative involvement, regardless of
whether you do it up front or whether you do it after you change the
client's focus (which is all the shock induction does). I prefer to respect
the client by establishing imaginative involvement up front.

I might also suggest that a really good hypnotist can induce trance in less
than 2 minutes without using a shock (IOW, "rapid") induction - and your
client will enjoy the experience a lot more. Disorienting a client by
startling her is very unnecessary.

Furthermore, as you become increasingly good at calibrating and guiding
using permissive language patterns, you will find that you can reduce the
amount of time required before increasing the behaviour-changing patter.

And, by all means, let go of the notion that there is such a thing as
"rapid" inductions. As mentioned above, trance is a matter of imaginative
involvement rather than being startled into a different realm of reality.


Hope that helps!


Health, wealth, and stealth,


Tom Eagles
MindFX.ca

You'll notice my post never mentioned somnambulism. That is because I
too am not sure where that concept developed or how accurate it is.
Not only can I achieve numbers fading away without trance, I contend
there is practically nothing that can be achieved in trance that
cannot be achieved without formal trance in the right person. People
stop smoking, lose weight, increase their self-image, etc. all the
time without formal trance. Even something as dynamic as a human
bridge can be accomplished without a formal trance with the right
subject.

The Elman does have a built in test that you have amnesia, or that the
person has allowed the numbers to drift away. At the very least, you
have a compliant subject. That is all that is required for behavior
modification. Those who have studied it more extensively than I have
state almost unanimously that somnambulism must be achieved in order
to do true regression techniques. I don't have any legitimate research
to show either way. Some, like Jerry Kein, teach that 100% of people
can achieve somnambulism, but he uses the Elman induction to show that
they are there because they lost the numbers.

I recently purchased Elman's book, Hypnotherapy. Hopefully it will
shed some light for me on his thinking on this subject.

Johnie Fredman
www.heartlandhypnosisservices.com

On Jan 10, 2009, at 2:27 PM, MMTIERS@... wrote:

>
>
> In a message dated 1/10/2009 2:51:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
johnie@...
>  writes:
> There are other, more subtle ways, to get the amnesia. The beautiful
> thing about the Elman is that it includes a built in test so that you
> know you have it. The other methods require you to test for it
> separately.
> I have always had a problem with this assumption. When I'm
> suggesting that someone allow those numbers to grow dim and distant
> and fade away and the client does this, all it means is that they
> are good at visualizing or imagining those numbers fading away. I
> can do this without trance.
>
> Unless you go further and test for amnesia of the numbers, like
> asking them to try to count, you can't prove anything. Where is the
> research that Elman was pulling from and how did he know it's
> somnambulism? I'm always a little doubtful when some hypnotists
> claim that you must get somnambulism to achieve most changes, when
> research seems to refute that time and time again. Not only the fact
> that it seems only a small percentage can achieve true somnambulism
> (whatever the hell that is) but also that, for many, suggestion
> seems to work just as well with out any formal trance.
>
> I teach and use variations of the Elman induction because it's rapid
> and achieves a nice state of trance. Is somnambulism built into it?
> I have no idea. As soon as I hear anything said with conviction in
> this mind field we play in, I get, well, a little curious...
>
> What do you all think?
>
> Happy New Year!
> Melissa
>
>
>
>
>
> A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't recall the original posters name, but you might want to check out
one of the other lists like the hypnosis technique exchange, or
www.hypnothoughts.com

You'll find a lot less of the attitudes you've been getting.

I've got a couple of Jerrys vids, and his instant induction vid is great.
I'm sure his full program rocks.


As another poster mentioned, forgetting the numbers is just a small part of
it.
They can hold on to the numbers if they really want. But as long as they are
responsive, then you have a green light to teach them to have some fun. And
eventually you can do some more serious work.

Jorge

In a message dated 1/10/2009 2:51:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
johnie@... writes:

There  are other, more subtle ways, to get the amnesia. The beautiful
thing  about the Elman is that it includes a built in test so that you
know  you have it. The other methods require you to test for it separately.
I have always had a problem with this assumption. When I'm suggesting that
someone allow those numbers to grow dim and distant and fade away and the
client  does this, all it means is that they are good at visualizing or 
imagining
those numbers fading away. I can do this without trance.

Unless you go further and test for amnesia of the numbers, like asking them
to try to count, you can't prove anything. Where is the research that Elman
was  pulling from and how did he know it's somnambulism? I'm always a little
doubtful when some hypnotists claim that you must get somnambulism to achieve
most changes, when research seems to refute that time and time again. Not only
the fact that it seems only a small percentage can achieve true somnambulism
(whatever the hell that is) but also that, for many, suggestion seems to work
  just as well with out any formal trance.

I teach and use variations of the Elman induction because it's rapid and
achieves a nice state of trance. Is somnambulism built into it? I have no idea.
As soon as I hear anything said with conviction in this mind field we play in,
I  get, well, a little curious...

What do you all think?

Happy New Year!
Melissa



**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In hypnosis-hypnotherapy@yahoogroups.com, "markrdavis"
<markrdavis@...> wrote:
> Basically researchers found that nitrous oxide (laughing gas)
increased  hypnotic susceptability - with good possibilities for
dentists to make use of that.... just wondering where to get some N20
myself!

Easy.  You can buy balloons filled with laughing gas from dodgy hippies
in Camden market and at music festivals.  There's also some research
that seems to suggest that being in flotation tank might increase
hypnotic susceptibility.  I'll leave it up to someone else to try to
combination approach!

Wasn't William James on laughing gas?  He was a hypnotist.  Here you
go...

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/96may/nitrous/nitrous.htm

Donald Robertson

Strewth!

Save us from home study courses!  It is like reading the highway code and
then deciding that you can drive.   In theory it would work.... but I bet
you would not like to be the passenger.

May I respectfully suggest that you consider some form of real life
teaching.



Ian Price
Director

0845 838 18 12 (Office Line) | 0845 056 9696 (Answer service) | 07930 399
121 (Ian Price: Mon - Fri)
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| PO Box 415, Beckenham, BR3 9BG | Co No: 5666454 | VAT No: 887846251

2008 courses inc:  1 day First Steps | 2 day Intermediate | Interview Skills
| One2one Coaching | In-house Training



www.londonhypnosis.org.uk  |  Individual Sessions  |  Group No Smoking  |  1
Day Introduction Workshop  |  Hypnosis CDs





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It's good to read that you and your wife are so enthusiastic but, I'm afraid
to say, your story really shows the weaknesses of a correspondence course.
The whole approach seems rather 'scatter-gun' and unrehearsed which would be
avoided by attending a class-based course.



I would not assume that you will be solely working with regression to cause
either. There are many ways to help your future clients and regression to
cause 1) may not be very effective for a lot of them and 2) may be the wrong
approach for certain conditions (e.g. specific phobia with no previous
trauma).



I am also confused that it seems that both you and your wife are practicing
hypnosis at the same time. How does this work?



Please...keep up the enthusiasm but don't assume anything. You will get so
much more out of this if you are as open-minded as you will be asking your
clients to be. And try and find some classroom lessons or even a local
hypnotherapy group.



Best of luck.



Duncan Gunn MNCH(Lic) GHR(Reg)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Monitoring my Google alerts I came across this juicy tidbit - from a
study done at the Hypnosis Unit at University College London

Basically researchers found that nitrous oxide (laughing gas) increased
hypnotic susceptability - with good possibilities for dentists to make
use of that.... just wondering where to get some N20 myself!

You can find the study results here:
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/media/library/laughinggas

Mark
Cognitive Hypnotherapist
www.inspiredhypnosis.co.uk

While I agree with Don that regression to cause should be done only after in
person training, I don't think that is the question that you were asking.

As far as numbers disappearing... I don't believe that is as big of an issue as
you do.  If all of the other responsivity tests were there, it might just be
that she is a numbers person and the very idea of forgetting numbers is hard for
her.  Check for other physical signs of hypnosis, and then just let her relax
her mind in any way she choses.  I personally have never actually let the
numbers fade totally away... but there comes a point where even though I know
full well what number comes next, the effort to say it is just too great.  You
say she could not "will them away" but the will is very much a function of the
conscious mind.

Beware of the law of reversed effect.  The harder a person "tries" to do
something, the less likely they are to do it.   If you are looking for signs
like rapid eye movement, flushed skin tone, relaxed muscles, you can easily
gauge the depth of the trance through those.  If you are stuck on the
disappearing numbers, you will never get to the real work of hypnotherapy. 
Perhaps you could incorporate her remembering of the numbers into the trance, to
remind her that she is in control of the trance process, and that she can use
that realization to deepen the relaxation of her mind to just the right depth
that her subconscious mind knows is right for her.

Nothing wrong with a client anticipating your moves.  I like to call that
self-hypnosis.  Remember that the experience of trance is different for each
person.  Again, praise her for being so receptive to trance and for learning her
self-hypnosis so quickly, and you will get much further than trying to demand
the resonse you want.

Linda

Some people have a real affinity for numbers and won't let go of them
no matter what you suggest. This would include people like accountants
and bookkeepers. Their livelihood depends on numbers. Other people
just aren't willing to "forget" things. A couple of things you might
try and see if they enhance your success. First, when explaining to
them what I want them to do, I always tell my clients, "It's okay to
let the numbers go because they will be there for you later when you
need them. That won't be a problem at all, so it's okay to let them
disappear only for the purpose of relaxing your mind". Another thing
you might try is switching from numbers to the alphabet. Some people
find it easier to let go of letters of the alphabet than numbers.

There are other, more subtle ways, to get the amnesia. The beautiful
thing about the Elman is that it includes a built in test so that you
know you have it. The other methods require you to test for it
separately.

Another suggestion is that you might check out some of the modified
Elman inductions. For example, I always have my client count up from
one instead of down from 100. When they count down, they can have a
goal in mind (count all the way to one). However, by counting up they
could theoretically count to infinity, so there is no potential goal
for the "over-achievers" you may be working with. I also never tell
them at what number they will disappear. This again issues a challenge
and if it doesn't happen then gives the appearance of failure. I
simply say, "After just a very few numbers, you'll find that they rest
of the numbers begin to float and drift and fade away into nothing,
nothing, nothing."

One last thought. Since this is a close friend, if she knows that you
are new to hypnotism and inexperienced it is going to be much more
difficult for her to see you as an expert. Therefore, she may be much
more hesitant to follow your suggestions no matter what they are.
Exude confidence! Remember, compared to her You Are the expert!

Hope this helps, or a least gives you something to think about!

Johnie Fredman
www.heartlandhypnosisservices.com

On Jan 9, 2009, at 1:55 PM, aura200870 wrote:

> My wife and I are new to Hypnosis. We are presently doing the Omni
> home course. We had our first client, a dear friend of ours that has
> a problem with pain in her legs. We believe that we will be primarily
> doing the regression to cause once we finish our course and are
> pretty excited about our future in hypnotherapy.
> Before we started the session I gave her a pre talk and then
> proceeded to use the Elman induction. Everything seemed to be going
> good until I got to willing the numbers away. The first time I told
> her that after the number 98 she would forget but she went right on
> counting 98,97,96,95 in her regular voice. I then did the arm drop
> method and told her when her arm drops she would go twice as deep
> into relaxation and then some refractioning and then went back to the
> numbers and she still could not will them away. At this point I
> emerged her and decided to do a quick induction followered by a 10 to
> 1 deepening count with eye testing and arm drop which seemed to work
> fine. I went back to the numbers and she just kept on counting after
> the number that I set for her. I emerged her again and we talked
> about what had happen. I then proceeded with another rapid induction
> but she was anticipating everything I was going to say. We ended the
> session and I told her I would see her next week in the mean time do
> some research as to what I could have done better. Not telling her
> that she did anything wrong. Actually we figured for our education it
> would be better to have a tough case first.
> What I think happen is that she just would not or could not listen or
> follow what I was saying. Especially when I gave her the last rapid
> induction having her push down on my hand while I pushed up and also
> having her stare at the point between my eyes, well she was going
> into trance before I said sleep and not pushing up on my hand even
> though I was constantly telling her to push down she was defiantly
> anticipating my moves. Any feed back would be great, thanking you all
> in advance.
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In hypnosis-hypnotherapy@yahoogroups.com, "aura200870"
<franmar50@...> wrote:
> My wife and I are new to Hypnosis. We are presently doing the Omni
  home course. We had our first client, a dear friend of ours that has
a problem with pain in her legs. We believe that we will be primarily
doing the regression to cause once we finish our course and are pretty
excited about our future in hypnotherapy.

Do you mean you're doing regression hypnotherapy solely on the basis of
a home study course?  Most organisations strongly recommend that
hypnotherapists have at least a minimum amount of classroom skills
training and clinical supervision.

Donald Robertson

My wife and I are new to Hypnosis. We are presently doing the Omni
home course. We had our first client, a dear friend of ours that has
a problem with pain in her legs. We believe that we will be primarily
doing the regression to cause once we finish our course and are
pretty excited about our future in hypnotherapy.
Before we started the session I gave her a pre talk and then
proceeded to use the Elman induction. Everything seemed to be going
good until I got to willing the numbers away. The first time I told
her that after the number 98 she would forget but she went right on
counting 98,97,96,95 in her regular voice. I then did  the arm drop
method and told her when her arm drops she would go twice as deep
into relaxation and then some refractioning and then went back to the
numbers and she still could not will them away. At this point I
emerged her and decided to do a quick induction followered by a 10 to
1 deepening count with eye testing and arm drop which seemed to work
fine. I went back to the numbers and she just kept on counting after
the number that I set for her. I emerged her again and we talked
about what had happen. I then proceeded with another rapid induction
but she was anticipating everything I was going to say. We ended the
session and I told her I would see her next week in the mean time do
some research as to what I could have done better. Not telling her
that she did anything wrong. Actually we figured for our education it
would be better to have a tough case first.
What I think happen is that she just would not or could not listen or
follow what I was saying. Especially when I gave her the last rapid
induction having her push down on my hand while I pushed up and also
having her stare at the point between my eyes, well she was going
into trance before I said sleep and not pushing up on my hand even
though I was constantly telling her to push down she was defiantly
anticipating my moves. Any feed back would be great, thanking you all
in advance.

Donald wrote: So clearly, the legal system, and the many
clients who have complained against or sued their therapists, perceive
this is a serious problem in therapy, especially in the use of hypnosis.


Yeah, but your example is more of a pointing out another great disastrous
reason the medical establishment needs a serious overhall.
Of course, I don't know much about the various cases, but the example has
nothing to do with hypnotist and the way a hypnotist uses alternative
memories to propell a client to a better future.


Jorge

I've made a lot of updates and improvements to the main Wikipedia article  on
Hypnosis, and a lot of the subsidiary articles over the past week.  It's  a
huge task, though.  I'd encourage anyone with an interest in the subject  to
take a look at the main Hypnosis article, and the others it links to, and
suggest any improvements to content or format in the Talk pages.  If you're 
going
to edit Wikipedia, or even use the Talk, make sure you abide by the rules  of
the community.  A lot of prospective hypnotherapists, journalists, and
prospective clients, and other members of the public probably go to Wikipedia 
first
for their information on hypnosis, so it's important that the information  is
accurate, balanced, and good quality.  It was in pretty bad condition,  but I
think that's improving and the addition of a Navigation bar linking all  the
related topics will hopefully help bring more structure to things.

Do NOT, as some people have done previously, try to abuse it to advertise
your own services!

_Hypnosis - Wikipedia, the  free encyclopedia_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnosis)


Yours  Sincerely,

Donald Robertson
College Principal & Executive  Director

Senior Clinician Hypnotherapist (NCH)
Registered  Psychotherapist (UKCP)
Member of the European Register of Psychotherapists  (ERP)
Fellow of the Royal Society for the Promotion of Health  (RSPH)


The UK College of  Hypnosis & Hypnotherapy Ltd.
_www.UKhypnosis.com_ (http://www.ukhypnosis.com/)

Freephone (UK)  0800 195 9809
Fax: 01403 265 015
International +44(0)1403248266
UKCHH,  Suite 127, 17 Piries Place, Horsham, West Sussex, RH12 1BF

Hypno-CBT® is  the registered trademark of The UK College of Hypnosis &
Hypnotherapy  Ltd.
Registered in England as Company No. 05499462, UK Register of Learning
Providers No.10008042
VAT Registration 920 1916 52

UKCHH Ltd.  Disclaimer, Terms, & Copyright
Copyright (c) UKCHH Ltd., unless  otherwise stated. This email is
confidential and intended solely for the use of  the addressee. If you are not
the
intended recipient then the disclosure,  copying or distribution to others of
any
part or whole of this message is  strictly prohibited. Please notify the sender
imediately and delete the  email.

This message has been scanned for viruses before sending. UKCHH  Ltd. accepts
no responsibility for infection and recommends you scan both email  and
contents.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In hypnosis-hypnotherapy@yahoogroups.com, Hypnotic Consulting
<hypnotic.consulting@...> wrote:
> I'm still not seeing how this is a problem. [...] But even though I
agree with your comments about memory, that they are inaccurate
reaconstructions, that doesn't mean it doesn't help to reexamine or
reconstruct them to someones benefit.

This is potentially a long and complicated discussion for email, so
forgive me for giving a slightly truncated response.  The (very)
abbreviated reply would be that since the 1990s false memory syndrome
has been the cause of the most expensive civil litigation in the
history of mental health with multi-million dollar payouts to clients
who have sued over the fact that memories have been inaccurately
reconstructed in therapy.  So clearly, the legal system, and the many
clients who have complained against or sued their therapists, perceive
this is a serious problem in therapy, especially in the use of hypnosis.

Donald Robertson

I would suggest that audio subliminals don't work as they are intended to.

However never forget the power of placebo which acounts for a huge amount.  I
give my clients a free CD that I've pre-recorded with weight loss, smoking
cessation, relaxation etc as the main track, there is also an add on a
subliminal track with the sound of waves over the top.

I explain that there is no evidence to prove that subliminals work but then
explain the theory behind subliminal sounds.

Many clients swear by it and go to bed every night listening to the sound of the
seashore believing that by listening to the CD they are becoming more relaxed
and confident in their lives - and hey presto!!!!!

If it's due to subliminals working great, if it's placebo great, if it does
nothing at all then at least it's a nice pleasant sound to fall asleep to and
nobody has been told a lie.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Warmest Regards
Chris Fleet
www.fleethypnosis.com
01803 557681

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I'd love to get your opinion on whether audio subliminals work.....

I haven't found any research that shows they work.

However, sometimes they do to some extent; and it seems to be placebo,
because the subjects needed to know that the subliminal words were there.

So, yes, I believe that they can work, but only to the same extent as
placebo. I personally don't bother with them, as there are easier and
simpler placebos to use. For example, I've seen grapes used as amazing
placebos before.

Paddy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In hypnosis-hypnotherapy@yahoogroups.com, "Wendy Merron"
<wgoldenthal@...> wrote:
> I'd love to get your opinion on whether audio subliminals work.....

No.  They probably don't work, and they probably don't have anything to
do with hypnotism.


Donald Robertson

Now that the New Year has started I am going to share with you a
meditation that I do at least monthly and sometimes more if I need
help. If you have both feet on the ground, it may seem airy fairly to
you. Try it you'll like it.


Take 30 minutes out of your day; find a quiet place where you won't
be disturbed. Put yourself in a meditative state – I just touch my
nose and I am gone (but I have been doing this for years).


In your mind imagine your spirit guide or Higher Power greeting you
with a crystal goblet in its hand, with water taken from the crystal
fountain. Take the goblet; drink the water, which may be a different
color. If it is remember the color and keep the color around you
until you do the meditation again – it is the color that you need.


Now walk into the Crystal Cave of the Ancients. The first thing
you'll see is a huge crystal vat filled with healing and cleansing
water. Imagine you are unzipping your suit of skin. Starting at the
top of your head concluding at your pubic bone. Take your suit of
skin, whish it in the vat – leaving it there during the meditation.
This will remove any hooks that are there as well as cleanse your
aura.


Now your Inner Core Energy is exposed, which should look like an
oblong ball. Depending on how you have been taking care of yourself,
it will be filled out and smooth. If you haven't it will be filled
with holes, and jagged edges. Your mind will move it – take it to the
Crystal Healing Table. Lie down and let the spirit guides work there
magic, and heal you.


Once they are done, you'll move to the Crystal Healing Room. There
just lye down on the bench, you'll feel the various healing lights
moving through your energy. The healing room will know the correct
prescription of what lights to use and for how long. Once you are
done, you'll know it.


Take your Inner Cory Energy into the Crystal Bathing Pool. Here
you'll find healing stones, aromatherapy bottles around the edge of
the pool. You'll be directed to take and use the ones you feel you
need. Now swim or if you are afraid to swim just sit in the water. It
is this water that drains away any depression. Once you have done
this you are ready to put on your suite of skin.


Back to the Crystal Vat take your suit of skin out of the vat; shake
it out putting it back on.


Now it is time to go to your Crystal Conference Table where you can
call your mentors to talk to you. Take your time; tell whomever you
have called to the table you want their help. Once you have finished
the conversation, it is time to go back to your Higher Power or
Spirit Guide at the mouth of the cave.


Thank whom you have drawn, drink the water once more and leave.


You'll wake up feeling refreshed and renewed. Do it when you need
help or want to clear your aura.


Enjoy. Daze'



Listen to Daze' Internet Radio Show

http://www.success-talk.com/index.asp?s=h&hd=308&ch=7&affnum=0

Linda Schurman - Tells Us How to Survive  and What to Expect.

I've made some changes myself to the "hypnosis" and "hypnotherapy" articles
on Wikipedia.  I think it would be good if more people who knew about the
subject took time to get involved in helping to maintain the relevant Wikipedia
entries.  These are probably looked at by a lot of people who are  interested
in the subject, and they're pretty basic at the moment.  If  enough people
took just a few minutes to help improve these entries then they  could probably
be made much more helpful to people interested in the subject,  and the more
people edit the page the more balanced the representation hopefully  becomes.

_Hypnosis - Wikipedia, the  free encyclopedia_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnosis)

Yours  Sincerely,

Donald Robertson
College Principal & Executive  Director

Senior Clinician Hypnotherapist (NCH)
Registered  Psychotherapist (UKCP)
Member of the European Register of Psychotherapists  (ERP)
Fellow of the Royal Society for the Promotion of Health  (RSPH)


The UK College of  Hypnosis & Hypnotherapy Ltd.
_www.UKhypnosis.com_ (http://www.ukhypnosis.com/)

Freephone (UK)  0800 195 9809
Fax: 01403 265 015
International +44(0)1403248266
UKCHH,  Suite 127, 17 Piries Place, Horsham, West Sussex, RH12 1BF

Hypno-CBT® is  the registered trademark of The UK College of Hypnosis &
Hypnotherapy  Ltd.
Registered in England as Company No. 05499462, UK Register of Learning
Providers No.10008042
VAT Registration 920 1916 52

UKCHH Ltd.  Disclaimer, Terms, & Copyright
Copyright (c) UKCHH Ltd., unless  otherwise stated. This email is
confidential and intended solely for the use of  the addressee. If you are not
the
intended recipient then the disclosure,  copying or distribution to others of
any
part or whole of this message is  strictly prohibited. Please notify the sender
imediately and delete the  email.

This message has been scanned for viruses before sending. UKCHH  Ltd. accepts
no responsibility for infection and recommends you scan both email  and
contents.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is "Whistleberries" from "My Voice will go with you".

Barry Cooper

> -----Original Message-----
> From: hypnosis-hypnotherapy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hypnosis-
> hypnotherapy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Duncan Gunn
> Sent: 31 December 2008 16:14
> To: hypnosis-hypnotherapy@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [hypno] Re: Religion
>
> I'm sure I'll misquote this tale, and anyone can correct me, but I once
> heard a story about Milton Erickson and a new client of his who was a
> devout
> Catholic and had severe social anxiety. She had big issues with flatulence
> and could not bear the thought of 'breaking wind' in company. This gave
> her
> all sorts of gastric problems and turned her into a social recluse. She
> was
> at college at the time and would not socialise with anyone.
>

I'm sure I'll misquote this tale, and anyone can correct me, but I once
heard a story about Milton Erickson and a new client of his who was a devout
Catholic and had severe social anxiety. She had big issues with flatulence
and could not bear the thought of 'breaking wind' in company. This gave her
all sorts of gastric problems and turned her into a social recluse. She was
at college at the time and would not socialise with anyone.



Utilising her religious beliefs, Erickson cleverly suggested to her that if
God knew that she was curtailing this vital function and that she was
embarrassed about a function which He had given to her then it was nigh
close to blasphemy and He would be downright furious that she wasn't using
this, literally for her, God-given function. He explained to her the biology
and anatomy of breaking wind to show her how very clever it all was; the
exact contracting of muscles to only allow gases to pass and the function of
the colon in all of this is a finely tuned operation (if it were not...well,
let's not go there!).



Erickson gave her homework to break wind as much as possible, in her room,
and to understand the processes involved with it. He instructed her to
rejoice with her God every time she broke wind.



She later returned to see him to thank him; she was now happily married and
expectant with child.



I love this story.



Duncan Gunn MNCH(Lic) GHR(Reg)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Oreszt,

Religious clients are great. I ask about their faith, and, if they profess great
faith, I ask they why they have come to me -- why haven't they handed it over in
faith. This invariably leads into many insights for the client about their
limiting assumptions about the Divine ("I don't want to bother him/her"; "I
didn't know I could do that") and how to relate to faith, prayer and fear.

A client's professed religious faith sets up a great frame in which to invite
them into trance (communion) with the Power that can heal and change them. No
resistance because you are building on their declaration of faith.

You also want to make clear the ways in which the client's projects parental
templates from childhood experience on to their "intuitive" sense of the nature
of the Higher Power and their relationship to it.
You want to remove the subtle notion that "god" is a withholding, judgmental
deity who is displeased with them.

On the whole, if you understand how to do this type of inquiry, religious
clients are delightful and easy to work with.


Peace,
Jack

Jack Elias, Min., CH
Lucid Heart© Therapy & Life Coaching
Institute for Therapeutic Learning
Author, Finding True Magic: Transpersonal Hypnosis and Hypnotherapy/NLP
A Radical Synthesis of Eastern & Western Perspectives & Techniques
www.FindingTrueMagic.com
Hypnotherapy Certification,  Private Sessions, & Self-Improvement Products

"The world is its own magic."   -- Shunryu Suzuki, Roshi



   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Oreszt Murgacs
   To: HypnosisTechniqueExchange@yahoogroups.com ;
hypnosis-hypnotherapy@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 9:17 AM
   Subject: [hypno] Religion


   Hi,

   An interesting subject for debate now that we all have a little time to relax.


   How do you deal with religious clients?

   How do you use/abuse/avoid religion if it's an important part of your client's
world or your geographical area?

   Should we exclude religion entirely alienating us from it?

   Should we simply accept the client's beliefs but not incorporate it into the
session to reinforce outcome?

   Should we become educated in every major religion present in our area and
adopt to the clients belief systems?

   Should we act like we were devotees of the client's religion to improve
rapport and results?

   Should we tie hypnosis to the religions that accept it and refuse other
clients?

   Will hypnosis work with a client whose religion opposes hypnotism?

   What religious info-ammunition do you use?

   Should the prominent religion in your region affect your advertising
techniques?


   If you have a comment on any of the above ideas,
   please share your thoughts!

   Oresztesz

   ¡Todo sobre Amor y Sexo!
   La guía completa para tu vida en Mujer de Hoy.
   http://mx.mujer.yahoo.com/

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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2:23 PM


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

May you all be  safe, blessed with joy, and the expanding ability to live from
your
True Wisdom Heart.

Rising Above Fear; Living from Courage

Some tips and insights to overcome fearful thoughts and emotional states that
cause you to contract from others and from your own sense of resourcefulness and
joy:

1) Leap! Liberation and empowerment always come dressed in paradox. If you find
yourself contracting and holding back and holding on, don't spend time stewing.
Just give! Give your money, give your time, give your attention to others
(especially outside your family). Disregard the fearful objecting thoughts of
lack and limitation and just do it.

2) Make giving a regular part of your life, daily or weekly is best. Fight for
cheerfulness; dismiss shyness or moodiness and practice friendliness. No effort
at kindness is too small!

3) Master your (fearful) mind! This is easier to do when you understand in a
vivid, on-the-spot way, the difference between imagination, and perception, and
the nature of causality.

Perception doesn't cause anything! It is just raw data. For example, receiving a
pink slip, or perceiving the imagination that you are about to, doesn't cause
anything. In other words, you do not have to feel afraid. Fear isn't caused by
perception of an outer event or an inner event (thoughts and imaginations). Fear
is caused when you move from perception to imagination of consequence (thinking
things will only get worse) to conviction that you can't handle the consequence
and nothing good can come of it (you're screwed!). That "move from" moment is
the on-the-spot moment of choice.

Instead of choosing fearful thinking and imagining, you have a choice to move
from perception to imagining yourself to be someone you value, and will stand
by, and encourage in the process of imagining constructive actions you can take
to deal with the perceived event. No put downs, including complaining, which is
a disguised put down! How is complaining a put down? In order to complain, you
first have to judge yourself not good enough or smart enough to handle the
challenge.

It may not seem to you that it is just as easy to imagine positive consequences
as negative ones, but that is just a function of habit. You can practice
imagining positive constructive outcomes and you can practice brainstorming the
means to accomplish them.

Inspiration to create this new habit of constructive imagining and brainstorming
increases easily when you realize that fearful thinking, and its resulting
contracted mental and emotional states, are never required (according to the law
of causality) and they never help!

It is always a mistake to choose to give in to fearful thinking. If you take
some time to focus on this fact so that you really develop confidence in it, you
will readily arouse your aggressive energy to reject fearful thinking and
replace it with creative thinking.

Here is an example of how one person chose to trust the paradoxical nature of
liberation and empowerment. Many years ago a very successful man shared what he
said was his primary secret to success. He said simply, "Whatever direction fear
told me to go in, I went in the opposite direction. That made all the
difference."

May we all prosper with enhanced compassion and wisdom! Let's make a difference
together. Good luck.

© 2008, Jack Elias, www.FindingTrueMagic.com, December 08 monthly ezine,
All Rights Reserved

Peace,
Jack

Jack Elias, Min., CH
Lucid Heart© Therapy & Life Coaching
Institute for Therapeutic Learning
Author, Finding True Magic: Transpersonal Hypnosis and Hypnotherapy/NLP
A Radical Synthesis of Eastern & Western Perspectives & Techniques
www.FindingTrueMagic.com
Hypnotherapy Certification,  Private Sessions, & Self-Improvement Products

"The world is its own magic."   -- Shunryu Suzuki, Roshi




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> How do you deal with religious clients? ...

I don't think about this in terms of "should" and "shouldn't".

Rather, I think, "What will help this client?" Each client will be
different.

  > Should we act like we were devotees of the client's religion to
improve rapport and results?

The insincerity won't improve rapport. I don't lie to my clients.

  > Will hypnosis work with a client whose religion opposes hypnotism?

Depends. Does the client agree with that restriction? If so, the client
may sabotage any results as a consequence. One possibility is to reframe
hypnosis. One might question why the client is coming for hypnosis if he
believes that it's evil.

  > Should the prominent religion in your region affect your advertising
techniques?

If your therapy specifically uses religion, then I would include it --
regardless of whether the religion is "prominent" in the region. For
example, if you are a minister who also practices religious-based
hypnotherapy, then I think that explicitly mentioning this in your
advertising will avoid misleading people (and may carve out a niche in
your religion).

Paddy

www.Landau.ws <http://www.landau.ws/>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,
 
An interesting subject for debate now that we all have a little time to relax.
 
 
How do you deal with religious clients?
 
How do you use/abuse/avoid religion if it's an important part of your client's
world or your geographical area?
 
Should we exclude religion entirely alienating us from it?
 
Should we simply accept the client's beliefs but not incorporate it into the
session to reinforce outcome?
 
Should we become educated in every major religion present in our area and adopt
to the clients belief systems?
 
Should we act like we were devotees of the client's religion to improve rapport
and results?
 
Should we tie hypnosis to the religions that accept it and refuse other clients?
 
Will hypnosis work with a client whose religion opposes hypnotism?
 
What religious info-ammunition do you use?
 
Should the prominent religion in your region affect your advertising techniques?
 
 
If you have a comment on any of the above ideas,
please share your thoughts!
 
Oresztesz


       ¡Todo sobre Amor y Sexo!
La guía completa para tu vida en Mujer de Hoy.
http://mx.mujer.yahoo.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In case you missed this on your Google Alert. Here's a fascinating
article about hypnosis, brainwashing and the American Way (also,
of course, our British and Canadian ways).  See is you can spot
the in-joke.

http://www.naturalnews.com/025141.html


Bryan M. Knight, MSW, PhD.
International Registry of Professional Hypnotherapists
http://hypnosisdepot.com/irphnewjoin.htm
promote your hypnosis business

   ----------


   ----------


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Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1862 - Release Date: 12/23/2008
12:08 PM


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi all,

We still have a few places available at the reduced early booking rate for
the Certificate in Sports Hypnosis course on 30/31 January 2009.

This 2-day CSH Certificate course provides foundation level training in
sports psychology and sports hypnosis for qualified hypnotherapists. The
course is an even mixture of theory and practice, and plenty of
opportunities are provided to practice various techniques. Assessment is by
a short examination which you complete at home after the course.

The Certificate in Sports Hypnosis (Cert.SportsHyp) covers:

* History of Sports Hypnosis
* Assessments & case formulation
* Sports psychology theory
* Sports psychology interventions
* Integrating hypnosis into sports psychology
* Case Studies
* Practical applications

Early Booking: £245 (Saving £50).

For more information and to book your place, please see
http://www.sportshypnosis.org.uk/training-cert-hypno.html

Regards,

Gary

The Centre for Sports Hypnosis (CSH)
http://www.sportshypnosis.org.uk

Replying to Donalds post about the subc:
I don't think so. The use of this term, in fact, really highlights
one of the major problems in the field of hypnotherapy.

I'm still not seeing how this is a problem. Now if we were talking about
progressive relaxation inductions versus the Elman...  or more clearly,
running a process with feedback versus one with no feedback.
I myself like referring to the inner mind,  and I also  vere into woo woo
stuff like disassociative approaches like higher self, past life, between
lives, etc...
Just about anything that's fun, and effective.
I guess that's my issue, if it works, it's simple,  wtf?
In the massage field we complain about scalple  crazed docs who for
migraines and carpal tunnel issues lean towards slicing and dicing when soft
tissue manipulation can take care of the problem much easier.

But this isn't quite the same. Regression to cause works pretty good, a lot
better then seeing a shrink for years and years. But even if it doesn't
work, or work completely, what has a client lost? time? a little discomfort?
But even though I agree with your comments about memory, that they are
inaccurate reaconstructions, that doesn't mean it doesn't help to reexamine
or reconstruct them to someones benefit.

Jorge

Jorge,



I predicted that Donald would write a more intelligible reply...and so he
did.



Duncan Gunn MNCH(Lic) GHR(Reg) HPD GQHP DipH DipNLP

Perfect Equilibrium : Cognitive Behavioural Hypnotherapy & Sports Mental
Toughness





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]