----- Original Message -----
From: Mel Grant
To: Jonathan Chase ; hypnosis-hypnotherapy-UK@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: [UKhypno] Re: WAS can hypnosis help me - now r u serious


Hello Jon,

I am not sure if that holds water. Are you implying that the client knows
best? That the therapist should treat the clients' perceived problem and
ignore any underlying issues that need addressing because the client has not
recognised these problems?

What makes you presume there is any underlying anything. As for recognition
then of course they haven't. Not consciously. And they don't need to be
consciously aware of the patterns, for that matter neither do you... in fact
it's likely that you would be unable to be aware of them in a conscious
logical sense. This is a misdirected theory that has dogged clinical
psychology for the few decades it's birth. That's why analysis and so many
forms of psychotherapy are completely hit and miss, and usually only hit on
the odd occasion where hypnosis is actually achieved.

>> If that is what you are implying then there has been a breakdown of
rapport from the very start and, quite rightly, it would be wrong to charge
them. <<

Not at all. I don't imply. Presuming that you know what hypnosis should be
on the clients behalf is simply wrong. You can't. And whatever the client
expects should be what the client gets. . . if not then you have failed to
hypnotise them and their viewpoint is at least as valid as yours.

>> I can be entertaining sometimes. I don't think I mentioned types of
motivation. When a client is motivated for the wrong reason the chances are
they will not succeed, this is where the totems are collected. If a client
is asked to stop smoking because his spouse would like him to then this is
the wrong motive - it has to be his decision.<<

On the other hand he has made the decision to agree to the decision of his
partner so it may work - worth a bash. It doesn't matter if you give a
guarantee does it? You are not ripping any one off and if it succeeds then
you both win.

>> However, if you go to this link you will find they do list motivation
types http://www.cba.uri.edu/Scholl/Notes/Motivation_Types.html <<

ROTFLMAO

This is the biggest load of good for the roses I've read in a long time.They
take the perceived results and actions of decision making and then break
that down to presume that the end result must point to the cause. Just the
sort of thing that NLP presumes. It also covers just about everything with
point B the author admits its hypothesis, that is a weak assumption.

This is like grading an anxiety by how long it's been around, or how it
affects the intervals life. There isn't types or grades, these are
intellectualised logical misnomers.

>> Go to yahoo psycho-pictography I have put a case on there.<<

No. Why should I?

So? There are lots of case histories that can prove any point you want to
make in psychology, and just as many that disapprove them. IF you look for
secondary and underpinnings and whatever other daft and misleading label you
wish to give your observation it doesn't make it true. I do not go with the
theory so don't see the problem, in fact I don't see any problems.

>>>>You're being ripped off.<<<<

>Only if I feel I am.<

PRECISELY! Yet you openly discount the feelings and judgement of your client
because 'you know best'.

>> Jon, the head has been off before. It has been skimmed down to its
tolerance and now they have to skim the valve seats so the head can be
skimmed again. They will also replace the valve stem seals and replace the
old head bolts. Now I know I can get the local cowboy to just replace the
head but that may not last a week. The garage I am using has said it should
last at least two years. I used to be a mechanic.<<

Great, so why not do it yourself? Or better still drop a new motor in or the
million other things we can't do with a client. The law is the law and a
statutory guarantee is unavoidable. So should it be with those whop deal
with things just a bit more important than a cylinderhead gasket. We are
talking about a human beings belief and emotional system - the most precious
of all machines.

>>>>You call THAT a bargain? Strange understanding of the word you have
there.<<<<

>> Yes, considering the alternatives.<<

What buying a new car that would have three years guarantee and six
corrosion.... seems like the alternative is preferable to me.

>>>>The phrases "saw you coming" and "laughing all the way to the bank"
spring to mind.<<<<

>>mmmmmm Now when did this mistrust of people first begin?<<

LOL It's actually a complete trust Mel, think about that one.

>>>>*WORTHY* of *YOUR* time? And people on these groups call ME big headed,
good grief. Icy would be tragic if it wasn't so bloody funny.<<<<

>> Jon, time is more precious than money. Once time has been spent it cannot
be reclaimed. I value time and the gift of time that I give to anyone.
Therefore that person has to be worthy of that gift.<<

Sorry but anyone can give an hour or two of time - your clients for the most
part are looking for the rest of their lives.......

>> I don't make assumptions when dealing with clients in my clinical
practice. The only time I make assumptions is when I am paid to in my
business practice.<<

Oh I see, dual vales. And you specialise in your art then? You still didn't
answer the question. Here is another. Do you tell clients that they will
book a set of sessions?

> Perhaps you did not read deep enough into what I wrote?<

You know the art of hypnosis is say it straight. To 'read deeply enough'
would require me to make assumptions and then the decision I make would be
mine - and that would be inaccurate no matter how much I liked it.

>>>>Of course you would Mel. I actually believe that initially B & B were
convinced they would find weapons of mass destruction, it's not the first
time that honest belief has been based on misconception, myth and simple
erroneous theory.<<<<

>Not so. They knew from the outset there was no WMD's.<

Well considering that they had already sold him most of the bits it was a
fair assumption. IF they were trying to cover their tracks Mel by now they
would have found some.......... at least that's my take on it.

>Ex-Royal Marine Commando who know a bit about NBC warfare.<

Amazing.

I don't have your experience there, I've been w orking and extremely
successful hypnotist for three decades so what do I know about politics and
cars.... however I have been a consumer- virtually professionally - for the
same period and would demand a guarantee....

Smiles
JonC