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Belief and Experience of 'Mirroring' (Was: The Big Day   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #12375 of 12552 |
Re: [UKhypno] Re: Belief and Experience of 'Mirroring' (Was: The Big Day

> That's essentially what you-- and others want: do a trick and
> prove to us psi exists-- and while you're at it, keep doing it until
> we are satisfied that you aren't faking.

Well, don't talk for me.

What scientists realise is that their minds and powers of observation
are flawed. That's why they use measuring tools, statistics, and
double-blind experiments to attempt to take their personal prejudices
out of the answers.

What people like me want is demonstrable proof. If psi exists, then it
can be either measured or statistically demonstrated. Where are these
studies that you keep referring to? (I'm curious, not trying to pull you
down. I'd be pleased as punch to find valid experiments showing that psi
does exist.)

> Scientists want the lay person to accept the idea
> that there are invissible masssless particles that zip through us all
> the time from space; particles we can't see, taste, feel or detect by
> film...

Uh, no. Scientists hypothesise (based on prior evidence and missing
information) that these particles exist.

They then create experiments (double-blind wherever possible) to test
whether the hypothesis is valid (i.e. could be true) or invalid (i.e.
couldn't be true). A key element of an experiment is that it must
predict a result. If the prediction turns out correct, it confirms (not
proves) the hypothesis; if incorrect, it invalidates the hypothesis. (It
can be considered a proof if it's an either-or: For example, either
horses' feet all leave the ground at the same time during each canter,
or they don't.)

If the experiments -- which must be repeated by different scientists to
be considered seriously -- indicate that the hypothesis is valid, they
then call it a Theory. (In layman's terms, a Theory is what is "true".)
That theory is built on, creating further hypotheses and experiments
(and new theories), until they find the limitations of their theories,
and either refine them (as with Newtonian physics) or discard them (as
with Copernicus's theories).

Scientists don't consider their conclusions as the Truth. Instead, they
consider them as guidelines towards the truth.

If we were to reject the scientific method, and rely on our subjective
observations, then the sun and stars would still be circling the world,
the world would still be flat, and you and I would not be typing on
computers.

Perhaps psychic powers do exist. At the moment, there is no evidence
that they do not; but likewise, there is no evidence that they do. For
simplicity's sake, scientists ignore its possibility until they come to
something that they can either measure or statistically validate. That's
why scientists ignore ghosts. It doesn't have to be "in a lab"; stars,
global warming and neutrinos don't fit in a lab, yet that doesn't stop
scientists from measuring, statistically analysing, hypothesising, and
experimenting about them.

As you can see, you should welcome the scientific method, as it would
validate your conclusions if correct.

If you can give us something that can be measured, statistically
measured, and experimented on (in a repeatable way), then we could
consider this further.

For example: You said, "As it now stands, I *consistently* get two out
of every three lottery numbers-- night after night after night-- for the
lasst twenty-two days; something that would be statistically impossible
if psi wasn't involved."

If you really can predict these, then -- wow! -- do so. Email us
/before/ each lottery with your guesses. If you reach a statistical
measure of at least 95%, this will be worthy of scientific
investigation. If you reach at least 99%, you will have many people
interested. 99.9% will get you in a lab ;-) !

Paddy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:15 pm

paddylandau
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Message #12375 of 12552 |
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Hi Ron, ... I actually think the ancient yogi/buddhists probably understand this stuff better that anyone. If you are very internally sensitive you can learn...
Keith Bacon
keithbacon
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Dec 16, 2008
11:14 am

Wow, what a lot of stuff you have written, Keith! But I have a crappy old computer that crashes at the worst times, so I'll only address one ot rwo points. 1)...
Ron Hubbard
duquesne97217
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Dec 17, 2008
6:27 pm

Pardon my bad typing; it's damn cold here! The temperature has dropped down to 20 F and my office is freezing. Oy! Ron ... crappy ... 15 ... going ... or ... ...
Ron Hubbard
duquesne97217
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Dec 18, 2008
12:24 pm

Hi Ron, ... Some aspects of it yes. But their knowledge is obscured by a lot of superstitious/religious stuff. Which may or may not be true - but it puts off...
Keith Bacon
keithbacon
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Dec 18, 2008
1:31 pm

... beliefs! ... to ... accepted proof. Keith, isn't that like saying I won't believe in hypnosis unless everyone who's hypnotized can slow their hearts down...
Ron Hubbard
duquesne97217
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Dec 19, 2008
10:38 am

... Well, don't talk for me. What scientists realise is that their minds and powers of observation are flawed. That's why they use measuring tools, statistics,...
Paddy Landau
paddylandau
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Dec 20, 2008
1:23 am

... it ... these ... pull you ... that psi ... And yet, there are *so* many others who don't give a crap about the science. I was trying to get on disability...
Ron Hubbard
duquesne97217
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Dec 23, 2008
11:36 am

... Yes, it is! Email us your predicted numbers *before* the lottery takes place. If you get a significant number correct every time or almost every time, we...
Paddy Landau
paddylandau
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Dec 23, 2008
1:09 pm

Can we bring this thread to a close? It seems to have strayed too far beyond hypnotherapy into controversial paranormal claims. I've posted some material...
Donald Robertson
donjohnr
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Dec 23, 2008
1:11 pm
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