Hi Ron,

2008/12/17 Ron Hubbard <hubbard_ron@...>:
> 1) Yes, I agree with you: the Oriental folks do understand so much
> about the body and brain-- especially compared to "modern medicine."
Some aspects of it yes. But their knowledge is obscured by a lot of
superstitious/religious stuff. Which may or may not be true - but it
puts off many westerners as it put me off for too long.

> They also know all about psi abilities: they call them Joriki. But
> they consider these abilities a distraction on the way to enlightenment.
This is indeed a common belief in the spiritual path world. Personally
I doubt it and believe it is the ego playing tricks on people. Maybe
one day I will reach a certian stage and experience it myself and wil
change my belief.

> ... then what's needed is control
Yes - to a degree where an acceptable standard of experimental proof
can be given.

> 2) Every culture (except this, a young one) has been aware that psi
> abilities exist although the names have varied. All cultures know
> of "second sight" and the gift of prophecy. "shamans," medicine men,
> prophets-- whatever you want to call-- all have utilized those gifts
> for the benefit of their people; such people were also highly valued
> by their people. Only in this ass-backward culture are psychic folks
> ignored, even shunned.
There have been great healers and great quacks and con-men forever and
always will be. Which is which may be hard to decide. We have
scientific proof of some things, anecdotal backing of others and
patently stupid blind faith in many things. "shamanism" can have many
valid techniques (as had the masons, alchemists, warrior schools,
religious sects etc) I know this from my yoga/meditation experiences.
A knight of the temple did an all night vigil in knights pose as part
of initiation. To me this is a yogic practise (mainly strech the left
torso and thigh) to come to terms with horror and war - to avoid Post
Traumatic Stress Disorder and to maintain control in the stress of
combat. Soldiers should do it today. I would'nt expect anyone except
someone who has done it or similar to believe this! Organised religion
purges effective practice leaving ineffective traces. So Moslem bowing
and Christain singing/chanting and standing and sitting in unison has
become ineffective. Our culture is great - it just has some big gaps -
Islam and Christianity made these gaps bigger! Our science has purged
our culture of many superstitious beliefs, But most eople are by
nature superstitious - so many beliefs carry on despite evidence. Also
many people deny 'experienatial learning' as they 'mistake it' for
superstition.

> 3. The scientific sytem is highly flawed and always has been. To put
> faith into is-- As Mr. Spock would say-- illogical.
Good science is helpful and excellent. By definition it is the
appliance of logic to observation. The standard required to accept a
truth is so high that psi supporters are yet to reach that standard of
proof. So it is not scientific Of course science hasnt proved it
doesnt exist. We seem to have subtle froms of 'communication' not
known in current science - or known inprinciple but not in practise.
Yogis and shaman utilised our mirror neurons for thousands of years -
scientists discovered them in the 1990's.
The flaw is failure to realise that the field of internal exploration
('experiential learning') yields positive helpful techniques. The
ego/self in resisting change helps scientists dismiss the whole field
as unscientific, invalid even non-existent. It makes them think that
explanatory science is the only source of helpful knowledge. The
blind faith in un-scientific explanations of believers in these things
puts scientists off too.


> IF any psis could
> walk into a lab and do tricks for several hours, every day for weeks,
> the scientific community would be forced to acknowledge psi
> abilities. But let's get real here: psi abilities are a
> biological/psycological process, that for the most part can't be
> flipped on like a transistor radio. Only to the most stupid of
> scientists would insist on continued "proof" while denying the
> obvious and the written reports that span ages.
Wrong - exceptional claims require exceptional proof. It means that
people who have never experience 'psi' can validly believe it doesnt
exist. If one day I experience it I may change my view - but I may be
deluding myself as many people have done aout many things.

> That's not only stupidty, it's willful ignorance.
It is SCIENCE! Repeatable experimental validation (& prefereably a
feasible explanation) makes something scientifically true. There are
many triths outside science - they just arent scientific truths. Some
of them will be scientific truth one day and some will be disproven -
many will remian in limbo land.

> However, as I have said elsewhere, not all scientists have their
> heads of their asses when it coes to psi.
A well developed rational function doesn't preclude delusory beliefs!
In fact 'scientists' can be screwed up by allowing their intuition to
atrophy and start applying logic where it isnt effective. Most great
scientists seem to value art and intuiton as much as maths and logic
. Bad scientists excessive faith in bad science cases much grief.

> There is a
> considrable body of proof: yet those who say there isn't is either
> lying to themselves, or are ignorant of the facts
Or are merely sceptical because there is not sufficient widely accepted proof.

> However, if you
> should ever go the small grocery store on the edge of the Washington-
> Oregon border, you'll find my picture on the Winners Wall as I have
> won over $3,000 playing the lottery-- but losing very little. I used
> to win 1 out *every* 5 times I played before I got sick. Think about
> that. How many people win the lottery even once?
How do I refute this? Did you get lucky - did you invest more in
tickets than you realised? Did you have psi ability that you have now
lost? Are you lying? I just dont know.


> As it now stands, I *consistently* get two out of every three lottery
> numbers-- night after night after night-- for the lasst twenty-two
> days; something that would be statistically impossible if psi wasn't
> involved.
Plese give a statistical analysis. Are you saying for a random 3 digit
number you can say 3 digits and 2 will match those in the number.
Whats the odds on this? I have forgotten how to calculate that.


> Now, as the Bible says, there are none so blind as those who refuse
> to see. Right? ;-)
And none so wise (and free of tension) as those that don't have to believe.

Good luck,
Keith