2008/12/15 <HypnoSynthesisUK@...>:
> .... Braid emphasised, against the
> Mesmerists, that it was really the client who brought about the cure or
> effect and not the hypnotist or Mesmerist.

> In support of this, > surprisingly, Braid enthusiastically quoted reports of
yogic meditation
> brought back by the East India Company soldiers, etc. Braid reasoned that
> if yogins could experience similar effects, in solitary meditation, then
> that indirectly supported his argument that the effects of Mesmerism did not
> require a Mesmerist but originated within the subject's own mind and body.
It is so rare to hear of a western 'pioneer' of these things giving
praise to eastern things! There is a lot of western 're-discovery' of
ancient things but I suspect a lot of the time ideas and techniques
are taken and the taker pretends they discovered it themselves.
My expereince of yoga and mediation has been that doing the techniques
taught allows self righting/adjusting systems to function - systems
that are supressed by the ravages of stress in the modern world.
If suggestion could change the balance of the bodies systems towards
health then what other interventions could? In the ancient world as
civilisation developed it must have been obvious that hierachical
society (especially with injustice and inequality) caused collapsed
posture and the related loss of calm, grace and equanimity of self.
A colossal amount of experimentation gave us what we have today - a
diverse range of techniques that alter our state and allow subconcious
systems to work more effectively.
These techniques range from the seemingly simple - like basic
meditation (single point focus, using the breath to relax) thru basic
yoga (stretching to stimulate emotional/muscle release, stimulating
glands) to the odd but powerful extreme tantric/yoga practises.
I see in these things a split between the explanations of the
practioners and the techniques themselves. It is possible the
explanations are designed to take a persons concious mind away from
the areas being addressed so the subconcious can work on them
unhindered by concious meddling.
Also the explanations are 'tainted' by religious/superstitious
beliefs/wishes and the egotistical nature of the minor practioners who
want to claim spiritual superiorty over their followers. Even this is
complicated as a truly great teacher may well attribute all sorts of
things to external energies and entities so he can stay humble - not
be swayed by constant praise.

> Braid had initially used focused attention and shallow breathing to induce
> hypnotism, and he noted that certain reports of pranayama alluded to similar
> sorts of means.
We are taught the breath passing over nose and mouth internals where
nerve endings are close to the skin stimulates the para-sympathetic
nervous system. The sympathetic nervous system is over-active in a
stressed person so this brings it more into line. As the
para-sympathetic has failed to allow release of so much past tension
it requires serious prolonged stimulation.
I oftern wonder why in buddhism you count the breath from 1 to 10 but
in hypnosis you count backwards. Its something to do with hypnosis
focusing on just relaxing but in buddhism the focus is different.
Also in hypnosis you slump but in buddhism you want to stimulate the
postural systems of the spine.

> Braid also hypnotised himself to help with his rheumatic
> pain, and he saw this as further evidence that the effects did not require
> another person to channel any invisible energy, etc., into the subject.
This blocking neural pathways to 'disable' systems is big in
buddhism/yoga. Tapping the toungue on the lips and mouth (mantra) and
tapping fingure tips somehow does this. Its the breaking of links that
let the buddha give us his map of how the mind works. I'm curious to
know how a hypnotherapists experience matches a buddhists. I'm a bit
of a beginner - I cant 'switch off' pain. I had an experience of
'rising above it' of seperation from the body - the pain was there but
it was tolerable. This led to a complete disconnect from emotional
history - no neurosis, no past - total freedom and feeling utterly
grand. Do you get that in hypnosis? My trainer said this is 'showing
the way' This is more and more how you will be if you keep at it.

> However, people have a well-known tendency to "misattribute" unusual effects
> to unusual causes.... Likewise, as you say, New Age therapies exploit the same
> confusion and lead clients to assume that the improvements they experience
> have more to do with some special power of the healer, etc., than with their
> own attitude and imagination.
I think it is not concious exploitation - it is the murky workings of
the ego building a world view that is grand and coherent where the 'I'
is important. New Age therapies are often pale shadows of valid yogic
type techniques. But yogic techniques require a lot of time and self
discipline and hard work,


> CBT places considerable emphasis, in contrast
> with Freudian psychoanalysis, upon the idea that the client is helping
> themselves with the support of the therapist, not being passively "cured" by
> a healer or guru figure.
The more meditaiton I do the more Freud seems daft! Its not one trauma
screwing up the subconcious but layer upon layer of trauma. In our
world a 'normal' person is well out of adjustment. The overexcited
system is plagued by constant firing of fear/aversion reflexes that
don't get released. Nearly anything is traumatic. This results in us
being in some weird fight-or-flight mode but the mind can't find the
source of the fear so it attributes it to daft things like spiders or
the fear of ruination due to an inappropriately shaped body. Or just
general anxiety - low grade fear with no identifiable cause.

Yogi saying 'That stuff didn't get in there by logic and logic won't
get it out'. That's the western mistake - to look for reasoned
solutions. But the problem is the non-release of the reflexes. Every
serious zen or yoga person experiences catharsis again and again and
again. This is not 'scientific' but its bleedin' obvious to the
practitioner.
Interestingly many mind/body systems (like much western AT & Tai Chi &
much meditation) proceed at such a gentle pace the release happens
mostly below concious awareness (or doesnt happen at all!). The
'quick' ones like serious zen and Kundalini yoga cause a lot to come
to awareness. It is a surprise to see how much emotion is below
awareness.

> .... improvement is mainly due to the therapist, they're wrong, and that makes
> them more dependant upon the financial arrangement -if they relapse they
> need to go back and pay for more therapy.
I remember your story of the man who said psychothepray worked which
is why he had been having it all his life!
I believe the serial therapy goer is a often victim of the ego/self.
The kundalini yoga program is designed to make it very hard to deny
our workings. If you do as taught you will change - release
tension/repression - you can't escape it. But a large number of people
stop within their comfort zone - instinctively their subconcious finds
a way to deny change. These are often the people that will pay for
this and that and be happy with fleeting improvements or even delusory
ones. What is fascinating is that these people can't 'see' the changes
in those around them - those changes deny their world view. I had a
psychotherapist friend that got more and more awkward each time I saw
her - I believe it was because I was living denial of her views! She
did yoga to ge a flat tummy and didn't change. I did it to stay alive
and changed a lot.

> On the other hand, if the client
> finds their own power to help themselves they are more likely to maintain
> their improvement in the future without further help.
That has been my blessing. Having no money to pay for help but
suffering badly from stress I was forced to shop around and found
these odd eastern self-help programs. So I can live in my ruination
without being very stressed at all. I hear all these poor sods
bleating about fear of the bailiffs and losing jobs and I have lived
with it for years - this last year even quite cheerfully. I am very
lucky in one way at least. But it requires an odd view - that I am
just a mis-adjusted animal and if I do my yoga my system will adjust
to give me neutral state. Mundane and time consuming.

> Braid actually said the role of the hypnotist was like a train driver, as I
> recall. I think he meant that the hypnotist merely pulls the right levers,
> etc., but it is the engine (the client's mind) that does all the work.
I guess thats a difference. Basic yoga is 'Do this and your system
will sort itself out'. This mirrors 'Swallow this it will make you
better' but the yogic techniques work at a very fundamental level. As
you do the techniques you get a feel for how you work and what you
need to work on. Buts not at the levers in the cab level. It is more
oiling the wheels and adjusting the venting of the boiler. Then the
levers work better.

Keith.