Hi Ron,
2008/12/14 Ron Hubbard <hubbard_ron@...>:
> ... the mechanisms of what's
> involved in hypnosis hadn't been even remotely understood for a very
> long time, and even now, I don't know how many
> hypnotists/hypnotherapists really understand what goes on in the brain
> when hypnosis is brought into play.
.....
> There's a schism: the hypnotists don't care about the physiological
> aspects nor do the neurologists care about what happens with hypnosis-

I actually think the ancient yogi/buddhists probably understand this
stuff better that anyone. If you are very internally sensitive you
can learn a lot about how we work - psychologically and physically
(actually psycho-physically as at a certain depth there is no
seperation (but maybe they seperate again at a greater depth..).
A neurologist is different from a yogi in the same way that a
mathematician who has equations explaining harmonics is different from
a conductor who makes an orchestra great. One job is pure science the
other is intuition and 'empirical science'. There is a continuum
between these poles and hypnotherapy is in the middle of it.

> Then you add in the psi aspects and most people tune out.
As I do!

> But just because you don't want to believe in something, that does not
> make reality untrue.
Hmmmmm! Just because you experience something or other people
experience it and tell you about it doesn't make it true either! It
may feel like truth but many of our feelings are not reliable.

> There *are* people who have demonstrated telekinesis
> while-- and only while-- under hypnosis.
OK where's the proof? Exceptional proof required for such exceptional
claims please. Currently it seems to me if such things exist they are
so weak or useless that they can't be simply proved.

> there are many
> mainstream scientists who don't tow the line and believe in psi
> abilities whether they can be proven in a lab or not.

I am very interested in this business of belief and strange things -
as I have strange belifs myself. My current conclusions are:-
1 - Only a small percentage of humans are able to remove or change a
belief in the face of evidence.

2 - Most people need to have explanations of things which can't be
understood by them. So there is much superstitious belief about. So
many of these beliefs have been rolled back by modern science that I
regard it as highly likely many current common beliefs will be
delusory. The are many written claims 'proving' things that fall apart
under scutiny - the UFO & psi press is like this. If there are genuine
events they are rare and lost in the 'noise' of nonsense.

3 - I have personal experience of things which most people think are
scientifically impossible. Their beliefs are not scientific - they are
'faith based' - they have an excessive faith that science can explain
everything eventually. My experiences are personal and I cant prove
their validity to sceptics and people who will not try to gain the
same experiences I have had.

4 - Most people that have had the same 'mystic' (horrible word but
romantic!) experiences interpret them very differently than me - so
there may be doubt that we have actually have shared the experience.

5 - As there is so little external support for my interpretation of my
experiences I must doubt them.

Q - So what is certain then?
A - Not much that matters!

Q - Is that a problem?
A - No it is a huge benefit if you can 'realise' this. The urge to
'understand' what can't be understood and the urge to 'construct a
reality' that is more exciting and 'firm' than the mundaneness of the
'shallow reality' that forms naturally in the mind of a person subject
to the stresses of 'civilised' life is a big problem. This problem
manifests as an over-excited nervous system, huge amounts of
unreleased muscle tension & generalised impairment of all the bodies
systems - resulting in all sorts of health problems.

So here's a belief for you Ron - I believe if you addressed the above
issues your Fibromyalgia would go away! And the strength of your
beliefs would wane as you lost muscle tension in the torso.
What a strange belief I have! And no evidence to back it up. So I
would not expect you to believe the same.

I also believe a hypnotherapist that takes money off you to cultivate
your psi abilities should offer you a full refund if you dont get a
clear demonstrable result from it. Many of my yogi colleagues claim
'psi' experiences but I can't see what benefit they get except a sense
of being part of something special - which I take as a sign their ego
plays a bigger part in their workings than they think! Either that or
they are further down the path than me - I don't know.

Good luck,
Keith.
PS If you win the lottery shortly I may be in for some serious doubting....
PPS I believe there are subtle ways we influence each others systems
which are well beyond current science. 'Mirror' neurons triggered
visually are known to science but I think all our known senses
probably participate in 'mirroring'. And our elecro-magnetic fields
might and maybe there is even more...... This influencing anothers
system thru mirroring gets interpreted as 'energy' chanelling as it
was by the mesmerists.

PPPPPPPPS But I still don't believe in 'meaningful' long range
instantaneous communication!