I would expect that the subject of intestinal permeability and the possible way
to measure it should be of enormous interest to people with allergies and immune
system problems.  I would be grateful for any info you can find about it.
Concerning a similar subject, perhaps you can go to http://tinyurl.com/zenulin
,about zenulin and its regulation of intestinal barrier function.  I wonder if
this is connected with the HK's modus operandi.  This link was published in
another helminthic group but, due to its  small print ,I have not  been able to
read it properly. Thank you.

--- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, "donnabeales" <dbeales@...> wrote:
>
> One of the things you have to keep in mind in medicine is applicability of the
information you find, for lack of a better word.  In order for this information
to really be of value, it would be important to understand the context in which
this test, if it is indeed a test, is used.  Only a handful of articles in
Medline refer to IPI, so I'm not quite sure what to make of it.
>
> If I get a chance I will ask around, but I suspect at first glance, but don't
really know, that perhaps it may be one of those things that's only useful in
really, really ill people, such as those in the ICU.
>
> Still, because there's a lot of interest here on the forum about gut
permeability I thought it was worth posting.
>
> Best--
>
> Donna
>
>
>
> --- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, "Alberto" <albertorivas100@> wrote:
> >
> > Interesting article ; thank you Donna. I wonder if there is a correlation as
well between this index and food allergies and intolerances
> >
> > --- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, "Donna Beales" <dbeales@> wrote:
> > >
> > > There is apparently a tool used to determine intestinal permeability,
> > > the  "intestinal permeability index."  This article states that
> > > bacterial infection increases IPI:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21332551
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Donna Beales, MLIS
> > > Lowell General Hospital
> > > Health Science Library
> > > 295 Varnum Ave.
> > > Lowell, MA 01854
> > > Email: dbeales AT lowellgeneral.org
> > > http://www.lowellgeneral.org/library
> > > <http://www.lowellgeneral.org/library>
> > >
> > > Tel. 978-937-6247
> > > Fax 978-937-6855
> > >
> > > Thank you for using our services.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tell us how we're doing.
> > > <http://www.kwiksurveys.com/online-survey.php?surveyID=BMDHI_cd5c65f1>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This message and any included attachments are intended only for the use
> > > of the person or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain
> > > information that is privileged, confidential and protected from
> > > disclosure under applicable law.  Any review, disclosure, transmission,
> > > dissemination, copying or other use of this information by persons or
> > > entities other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited.  If
> > > you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the
> > > sender and delete the related message.  Thank you.
> > >
> >
>

For background, Dr. Weinstock has been expounding on this idea for a number of
years.  A more detailed explanation of his reasoning is here:

http://biotherapy.md.huji.ac.il/Docs/WeinstockHelminthotherapy.pdf


--- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, "j.scott107" <j.scott.164@...> wrote:
>
> Joel Weinstock may have ruffled a few feathers by suggesting that the
> 2-4 times higher prevalence of Crohn's disease among Ashkenazi Jews than
> among non-Jewish whites may be due less to genes and more to the
> worm-reducing effects of Jewish dietary regulations and history.
> "The fact that Jews coming to the United States at the turn of the
> century were not eating pig products, already adhered to certain
> cleansing rituals and tended to settle in cities far from animals and
> animal waste might just have been the perfect mix to set them on a path
> to their current Crohn's rates."
> http://www.forward.com/articles/140645/
> <http://www.forward.com/articles/140645/>
>

A nice article about how monoclonal & polyclonal antibodies work:
http://f1000.com/reports/b/3/17

The double-edged sword of our gut microbes, and the role of diet:
http://the-scientist.com/2011/08/01/sharing-the-bounty/

My understanding is that gut permeability is a problem more of a chemical
nature; the gut allows small particles that should normally be too big to pass
into the bloodstream to travel there.

Helminths are much too big to pass through the intestinal wall even if there is
permeability; neither do they burrow through although they do attach there to
feed.

FYI, although I've seen a lot of photos of helminths with "nasty pointy teeth,"
N. americanus (hookworm) have two elongated plates that look almost like clamps,
not pointed fang-like structures.



--- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, Joyce Gates <joyceagates@...> wrote:
>
> This article is way too technical for me to understand, however, I do
have questions of the audience. 
>  
> If my gut is so damaged from UC and Celiac disease that food permeates it and
creates an "intolerance" in my body, could that mean that the HW and WW I
ingested are no longer in my gut?  Could they have slipped through the
"perforations" in my intestinal wall?  If so, I assume they entered my blood
stream, and then what happened to them?  
>  
> Perhaps that explains why I had such a short-term success with the probiotics
(~ months), and my body has reverted back to the way it was before. 
>  
> Joyce
>
>
> --- On Mon, 8/1/11, j.scott107 <j.scott.164@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: j.scott107 <j.scott.164@...>
> Subject: [helminthictherapy] Re: Science: Intestinal Permeability Index
> To: helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, August 1, 2011, 3:25 AM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
> This link will take you to the pdf of the paper about zonulin. If you still
have difficulty reading this, message me.
>
>
>
http://somvweb.som.umaryland.edu/absolutenm/articlefiles/1445-Zonulin%20and%20It\
s%20Regulation%20of%20Intestinal%20Barrier%20Function,%20Physiol%20Rev%202011.pd\
f 
> --- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, "Alberto" <albertorivas100@> wrote:
> >
> > I would expect that the subject of intestinal permeability and the possible
way to measure it should be of enormous interest to people with allergies and
immune system problems. I would be grateful for any info you can find about it.
> > Concerning a similar subject, perhaps you can go to
http://tinyurl.com/zenulin ,about zenulin and its regulation of intestinal
barrier function. I wonder if this is connected with the HK's modus operandi.
This link was published in another helminthic group but, due to its small print
,I have not been able to read it properly. Thank you.
> >
> > --- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, "donnabeales" dbeales@ wrote:
> > >
> > > One of the things you have to keep in mind in medicine is applicability of
the information you find, for lack of a better word. In order for this
information to really be of value, it would be important to understand the
context in which this test, if it is indeed a test, is used. Only a handful of
articles in Medline refer to IPI, so I'm not quite sure what to make of it.
> > >
> > > If I get a chance I will ask around, but I suspect at first glance, but
don't really know, that perhaps it may be one of those things that's only useful
in really, really ill people, such as those in the ICU.
> > >
> > > Still, because there's a lot of interest here on the forum about gut
permeability I thought it was worth posting.
> > >
> > > Best--
> > >
> > > Donna
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, "Alberto" <albertorivas100@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Interesting article ; thank you Donna. I wonder if there is a
correlation as well between this index and food allergies and intolerances
> > > >
> > > > --- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, "Donna Beales" <dbeales@>
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > There is apparently a tool used to determine intestinal permeability,
> > > > > the "intestinal permeability index." This article states that
> > > > > bacterial infection increases IPI:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21332551
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Donna Beales, MLIS
> > > > > Lowell General Hospital
> > > > > Health Science Library
> > > > > 295 Varnum Ave.
> > > > > Lowell, MA 01854
> > > > > Email: dbeales AT lowellgeneral.org
> > > > > http://www.lowellgeneral.org/library
> > > > > <http://www.lowellgeneral.org/library>
> > > > >
> > > > > Tel. 978-937-6247
> > > > > Fax 978-937-6855
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you for using our services.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Tell us how we're doing.
> > > > > <http://www.kwiksurveys.com/online-survey.php?surveyID=BMDHI_cd5c65f1>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > This message and any included attachments are intended only for the
use
> > > > > of the person or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain
> > > > > information that is privileged, confidential and protected from
> > > > > disclosure under applicable law. Any review, disclosure, transmission,
> > > > > dissemination, copying or other use of this information by persons or
> > > > > entities other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. If
> > > > > you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the
> > > > > sender and delete the related message. Thank you.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Here's a review article on medical leech use:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21206115



--- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, "j.scott107" <j.scott.164@...> wrote:
>
> What a difference location makes: people in Georgia can buy their
> therapeutic wrigglies over the counter.
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-14368151
> <http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-14368151>
>

I have no doubt helminthic therapy works after doing alot of
research(scientifically) myself on it but I have a great fear of worms on
account of having had wound worms a few times and severe ab pain with them ( my
dog infected me). Would whipworms or hook worm react  in the same manner I
wonder? My lupus is at the point it's eating my colon causing horrible colitis
which I have mistaken a few times for C Diff even with a neg culture. Getting
tired of begging doctors for pain meds because of my lupus pain and am now
labled a drug seeker. If they only KNEW!! THEIR meds sure are not working for me
and in fact have weakened me further. I have constant hot/cold spells since I
can no longer regulate my body temp due to prolonged opiate use:( some
experimental therapies my insurance WILL cover when nothing else helps but
finding a doctor in the state I reside to do this therapy would think I am nuts.
My doc is always testing me for parasites and giving me worm meds I don't need(
prophylactic he said). And TONS of antibiotics I prob don't need either. But if
ask for something for this god aweful pain he gets madder then a hornet! The
lupus is slowly killing me! My kidneys are slowly being attacked as well. I
think docs are keeping my body systems TOO clean which has made it worse. Not to
sound weird but I am not one to bathe daily or live in a clean bubble since we
all need some bacteria to thrive, despite what my doc wants to believe. Now If I
could just get beyond fear....anyone who has used this therapy for auto immune
deseases and had good luck, I would LOVE to hear your story please. Thanks....
gretta

Here is some evidence to support what I wrote earlier, that although there are
indeed bona fide cases of autoimmune diseases, for which HT is quite effective,
there are also "autoimmune mimics," symptoms that appear to be autoimmune but
may actually be caused by infection:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21448162

This may be something to keep in mind for those who do not have good success
with HT; however screening for this, and buy-in from the medical profession to
attempt it, appears limited, in my experience.



--- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, "Alberto" <albertorivas100@...> wrote:
>
> When my wife started helminthic therapy ,I was researching the fecal
transplants one just in case the HK would not have  worked  for her ; so this
was going to be our fallback position which, luckily, we have not needed. But I
agree that it sounds good. Perhaps you would be interested in going to :
http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/3269844.htm  and perhaps as well other
people might find interesting the article in The Scientist with the date of 18th
of June, I think, "Keeping immunity in check"  by Megan Scudellari, concerning
the possibility of modulating the immune system by other means, a subject that I
find fascinating.  Enjoy--- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com,
alihardison@... <alihardison@> wrote:>> Hi.> I'm happy to see you post as I've
been reading up on this very thing as Helminths did not help me. Do you think it
could help with severe food allergies/leaky gut? I read up some info.last night
and as gross as it is I think I'm.going to do it!> > Sent from my Verizon
Wireless Phone> > ----- Reply message -----> From: "Helen Love"
<hematoxophile@>> Date: Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:25 pm> Subject: [helminthictherapy]
Re: Speculation-- Why Doesn't HT Work for Everyone?> To:
<helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com>> > As much as I like helminths I also think
fecal transplants could help a lot of the people whether autoimmunity or
infections is their problem.  If the immune system is dysregulated due to
altered gut flora and is spending time doing unnecessary things (like attacking
harmless antigens) instead of providing a good defense against infections, fecal
bacteriotherapy could fix that.  Maybe that's why it has had such good results
in UC.  The only problem is getting a good donor.  I talked to a researcher who
said basically we need to travel to 3rd world countries where they haven't been
exposed to antibiotics and they had all the childhood infections without
microbiome altering vaccines.  Sounds like a good business to me if helminthic
therapy goes mainstream.  Maybe someone will travel to a 3rd world country and
pick up some feces...:)> > --- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com,
"donnabeales" <dbeales@> wrote:> >> > Ah, so now everyone may stone meÂ…  Your
co-moderator of the HT list has officially lost her mind!  As a friend of mine
once said, "All who wander are not lost."  But I confess to some pretty wild
wanderings into some areas waaaayy off topic for this list this week, and I will
spare you, gentle readers, from some of the unfruitful meanderings.> > > >
However a few things I unearthed may be fruitful.  I have a shiny new diagnosis
of antibody-negative "Sjogren's syndrome," which thus far has not been arrested
with HT or any other intervention.  I found a very interesting article related
to "sicca," which is the medical term for dryness of the mucosal membranes
(eyes, nose GI tract, gyn).  It relates a specific type of bacteria to sicca,
Tropheryma whipplei, (Whipple's disease) which may cause vitamin A deficiency
and malabsorption.  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12149393 Vitamin A
deficiency causes serious problems with mucosal membranes. Hepatitis viruses can
also cause sicca, and candida has been indirectly implicated.> > > > I also
found a very good article titled "Not All Arthritis is Rheumatoid."  When was it
written? 1964!  Why then does medical science then persist in assuming that all
rheumatopathology is autoimmune?  Sometimes, it's caused by a bug!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15446159> > > > My point is, as we are all
aware, HT doesn't work for everyone.   I appear to be one of the unlucky few who
is still manifesting some form of illness despite the best intentions of HT to
play nicely with my IL6, IL10, TGF-B and several other really nifty things
helminths do that lower inflammatory chemicals and raise anti-inflammatory
ones.  By all rights, HT should have pounded the living daylights out of my
problem, and since it didn't, I come as an aspiring scientist to the Big
Question: why not?> > > > Ulcerative colitis seems to be a tough nut to crack
with HT, the least responsive disease thus far, according to information
recently provided to the HT Forum in the Files section, with a 60% response rate
(still *amazing* by medical standards, BTW!).  Why?  When I plug in UC into
Medline, I find that UC sometimes responds very well to antibiotics.  Right now,
rifaximin is receiving a lot of attention.  It seems to work in some people.> >
> > I have a theory that non-responders to HT have been misdiagnosed with
"autoimmunity" when their real problem is quantifiable infection, like hepatitis
viruses, like Whipple's, like the UC antibiotic responders.  I think there truly
*are* autoimmune states, and those people properly diagnosed should do very well
with HT, as we've seen.> > > > But those with infectious problems may fall
through the cracks.  More often than I care to admit, doctors don't order the
right tests, don't interpret the results of appropriate tests accurately, and
generally stop short of looking beyond a narrow range of "common" diagnoses. 
Too, once they label>
>

 

My understanding is that gut permeability is a problem more of a chemical nature; the gut allows small particles that should normally be too big to pass into the bloodstream to travel there.

Helminths are much to big to pass through the intestinal wall even if there is permeability; neither do they burrow through although they do attach there to feed.

FYI, although I've seen a lot of photos of helminths with "nasty pointy teeth," N. americanus (hookworm) have two elongated plates that look almost like clamps, not pointed fang-like structures.

--- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, Joyce Gates <joyceagates@...> wrote:
>
> This article is way too technical for me to understand, however, I do have questions of the audience. 
>  
> If my gut is so damaged from UC and Celiac disease that food permeates it and creates an "intolerance" in my body, could that mean that the HW and WW I ingested are no longer in my gut?  Could they have slipped through the "perforations" in my intestinal wall?  If so, I assume they entered my blood stream, and then what happened to them? Â 
>  
> Perhaps that explains why I had such a short-term success with the probiotics (~ months), and my body has reverted back to the way it was before. 
>  
> Joyce
>
>
> --- On Mon, 8/1/11, j.scott107 <j.scott.164@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: j.scott107 <j.scott.164@...>
> Subject: [helminthictherapy] Re: Science: Intestinal Permeability Index
> To: helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, August 1, 2011, 3:25 AM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
> This link will take you to the pdf of the paper about zonulin. If you still have difficulty reading this, message me.
>
>
> http://somvweb.som.umaryland.edu/absolutenm/articlefiles/1445-Zonulin%20and%20Its%20Regulation%20of%20Intestinal%20Barrier%20Function,%20Physiol%20Rev%202011.pdf 
> --- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, "Alberto" <albertorivas100@> wrote:
> >
> > I would expect that the subject of intestinal permeability and the possible way to measure it should be of enormous interest to people with allergies and immune system problems. I would be grateful for any info you can find about it.
> > Concerning a similar subject, perhaps you can go to http://tinyurl.com/zenulin ,about zenulin and its regulation of intestinal barrier function. I wonder if this is connected with the HK's modus operandi. This link was published in another helminthic group but, due to its small print ,I have not been able to read it properly. Thank you.
> >
> > --- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, "donnabeales" dbeales@ wrote:
> > >
> > > One of the things you have to keep in mind in medicine is applicability of the information you find, for lack of a better word. In order for this information to really be of value, it would be important to understand the context in which this test, if it is indeed a test, is used. Only a handful of articles in Medline refer to IPI, so I'm not quite sure what to make of it.
> > >
> > > If I get a chance I will ask around, but I suspect at first glance, but don't really know, that perhaps it may be one of those things that's only useful in really, really ill people, such as those in the ICU.
> > >
> > > Still, because there's a lot of interest here on the forum about gut permeability I thought it was worth posting.
> > >
> > > Best--
> > >
> > > Donna
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, "Alberto" <albertorivas100@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Interesting article ; thank you Donna. I wonder if there is a correlation as well between this index and food allergies and intolerances
> > > >
> > > > --- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, "Donna Beales" <dbeales@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > There is apparently a tool used to determine intestinal permeability,
> > > > > the "intestinal permeability index." This article states that
> > > > > bacterial infection increases IPI:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21332551
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Donna Beales, MLIS
> > > > > Lowell General Hospital
> > > > > Health Science Library
> > > > > 295 Varnum Ave.
> > > > > Lowell, MA 01854
> > > > > Email: dbeales AT lowellgeneral.org
> > > > > http://www.lowellgeneral.org/library
> > > > > <http://www.lowellgeneral.org/library>
> > > > >
> > > > > Tel. 978-937-6247
> > > > > Fax 978-937-6855
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you for using our services.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Tell us how we're doing.
> > > > > <http://www.kwiksurveys.com/online-survey.php?surveyID=BMDHI_cd5c65f1>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > This message and any included attachments are intended only for the use
> > > > > of the person or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain
> > > > > information that is privileged, confidential and protected from
> > > > > disclosure under applicable law. Any review, disclosure, transmission,
> > > > > dissemination, copying or other use of this information by persons or
> > > > > entities other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. If
> > > > > you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the
> > > > > sender and delete the related message. Thank you.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Hey cowgirl, sorry to hear nothing is working for you. I know its not
conventional, but if I was in your position, id definitely be trying this. If
you can get over your initial revulsion for these little guys, who knows what
they can do, lupus has no cure, but either does crohns, asthma, ms, colitus,
Eczema, but these diseases have mostly all been shown to greatly improve, if not
stop it in its tracks. Take the leap. Go for it. It can't harm you, but may do
some good

On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 08:31 BST cow girl wrote:

> I have no doubt helminthic therapy works after doing alot of
research(scientifically) myself on it but I have a great fear of worms on
account of having had wound worms a few times and severe ab pain with them ( my
dog infected me). Would whipworms or hook worm react  in the same manner I
wonder? My lupus is at the point it's eating my colon causing horrible colitis
which I have mistaken a few times for C Diff even with a neg culture. Getting
tired of begging doctors for pain meds because of my lupus pain and am now
labled a drug seeker. If they only KNEW!! THEIR meds sure are not working for me
and in fact have weakened me further. I have constant hot/cold spells since I
can no longer regulate my body temp due to prolonged opiate use:( some
experimental therapies my insurance WILL cover when nothing else helps but
finding a doctor in the state I reside to do this therapy would think I am nuts.
My doc is always testing me for parasites and giving me
  worm meds I don't need( prophylactic he said). And TONS of antibiotics I prob
don't need either. But if ask for something for this god aweful pain he gets
madder then a hornet! The lupus is slowly killing me! My kidneys are slowly
being attacked as well. I think docs are keeping my body systems TOO clean which
has made it worse. Not to sound weird but I am not one to bathe daily or live in
a clean bubble since we all need some bacteria to thrive, despite what my doc
wants to believe. Now If I could just get beyond fear....anyone who has used
this therapy for auto immune deseases and had good luck, I would LOVE to hear
your story please. Thanks.... gretta
>

Note that viral illnesses in general are a typical trigger for MS attacks.
Discouraging to see such a strong, widespread reaction to a vaccination however.

--- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, "ric245" <ric245@...> wrote:
>
> I recently received a mandatory yellow fever vaccination in preparation for
heading overseas and it seems to have triggered a relapse of old MS symptoms but
not a fresh attack luckily.
>
> Did a Google search and it seems Farez and Correale just finished a recent
study on this very same thing showing a 95% increase in ms exacerbation rate
ratio.
>
> http://www.mstrust.org.uk/news/recentstories/article.jsp?id=4763
>
> coincidentally these are the same doctors who did the hookworms and ms study.
>
> Ric
>

addition (to an earlier message I sent which hasn't shown up yet. Hmm.)

Quorum or reverse quorum effects, or food additives mimicking same.


--- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, "donnabeales" <dbeales@...> wrote:
>
> Here is some evidence to support what I wrote earlier, that although there are
> indeed bona fide cases of autoimmune diseases, for which HT is quite
effective,
> there are also "autoimmune mimics," symptoms that appear to be autoimmune but
> may actually be caused by infection:
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21448162
>
> This may be something to keep in mind for those who do not have good success
> with HT; however screening for this, and buy-in from the medical profession to
> attempt it, appears limited, in my experience.
>
>
>
> --- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, "Alberto" <albertorivas100@> wrote:
> >
> > When my wife started helminthic therapy ,I was researching the fecal
transplants one just in case the HK would not have  worked  for her ; so this
was going to be our fallback position which, luckily, we have not needed. But I
agree that it sounds good. Perhaps you would be interested in going to :
http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/3269844.htm  and perhaps as well other
people might find interesting the article in The Scientist with the date of 18th
of June, I think, "Keeping immunity in check"  by Megan Scudellari, concerning
the possibility of modulating the immune system by other means, a subject that I
find fascinating.  Enjoy--- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, alihardison@
<alihardison@> wrote:>> Hi.> I'm happy to see you post as I've been reading up
on this very thing as Helminths did not help me. Do you think it could help with
severe food allergies/leaky gut? I read up some info.last night and as gross as
it is I think I'm.going to do it!> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone> >
----- Reply message -----> From: "Helen Love" <hematoxophile@>> Date: Sun, Jul
24, 2011 9:25 pm> Subject: [helminthictherapy] Re: Speculation-- Why Doesn't HT
Work for Everyone?> To: <helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com>> > As much as I like
helminths I also think fecal transplants could help a lot of the people whether
autoimmunity or infections is their problem.  If the immune system is
dysregulated due to altered gut flora and is spending time doing unnecessary
things (like attacking harmless antigens) instead of providing a good defense
against infections, fecal bacteriotherapy could fix that.  Maybe that's why it
has had such good results in UC.  The only problem is getting a good donor.  I
talked to a researcher who said basically we need to travel to 3rd world
countries where they haven't been exposed to antibiotics and they had all the
childhood infections without microbiome altering vaccines.  Sounds like a good
business to me if helminthic therapy goes mainstream.  Maybe someone will travel
to a 3rd world country and pick up some feces...:)> > --- In
helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, "donnabeales" <dbeales@> wrote:> >> > Ah, so
now everyone may stone meÂ…  Your co-moderator of the HT list has officially
lost her mind!  As a friend of mine once said, "All who wander are not lost." 
But I confess to some pretty wild wanderings into some areas waaaayy off topic
for this list this week, and I will spare you, gentle readers, from some of the
unfruitful meanderings.> > > > However a few things I unearthed may be
fruitful.  I have a shiny new diagnosis of antibody-negative "Sjogren's
syndrome," which thus far has not been arrested with HT or any other
intervention.  I found a very interesting article related to "sicca," which is
the medical term for dryness of the mucosal membranes (eyes, nose GI tract,
gyn).  It relates a specific type of bacteria to sicca, Tropheryma whipplei,
(Whipple's disease) which may cause vitamin A deficiency and malabsorption. 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12149393 Vitamin A deficiency causes serious
problems with mucosal membranes. Hepatitis viruses can also cause sicca, and
candida has been indirectly implicated.> > > > I also found a very good article
titled "Not All Arthritis is Rheumatoid."  When was it written? 1964!  Why then
does medical science then persist in assuming that all rheumatopathology is
autoimmune?  Sometimes, it's caused by a bug!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15446159> > > > My point is, as we are all
aware, HT doesn't work for everyone.   I appear to be one of the unlucky few who
is still manifesting some form of illness despite the best intentions of HT to
play nicely with my IL6, IL10, TGF-B and several other really nifty things
helminths do that lower inflammatory chemicals and raise anti-inflammatory
ones.  By all rights, HT should have pounded the living daylights out of my
problem, and since it didn't, I come as an aspiring scientist to the Big
Question: why not?> > > > Ulcerative colitis seems to be a tough nut to crack
with HT, the least responsive disease thus far, according to information
recently provided to the HT Forum in the Files section, with a 60% response rate
(still *amazing* by medical standards, BTW!).  Why?  When I plug in UC into
Medline, I find that UC sometimes responds very well to antibiotics.  Right now,
rifaximin is receiving a lot of attention.  It seems to work in some people.> >
> > I have a theory that non-responders to HT have been misdiagnosed with
"autoimmunity" when their real problem is quantifiable infection, like hepatitis
viruses, like Whipple's, like the UC antibiotic responders.  I think there truly
*are* autoimmune states, and those people properly diagnosed should do very well
with HT, as we've seen.> > > > But those with infectious problems may fall
through the cracks.  More often than I care to admit, doctors don't order the
right tests, don't interpret the results of appropriate tests accurately, and
generally stop short of looking beyond a narrow range of "common" diagnoses. 
Too, once they label>
> >
>

Hi Nomentanus

As you will see, both your messages have now been posted. There was a brief
delay in moderation so that both messages were approved at the same time.

Best - John

--- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, "nomentanus" <was173@...> wrote:
>
> addition (to an earlier message I sent which hasn't shown up yet. Hmm.)
>
> Quorum or reverse quorum effects, or food additives mimicking same.
>
>
> --- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, "donnabeales" <dbeales@> wrote:
> >
> > Here is some evidence to support what I wrote earlier, that although there
are
> > indeed bona fide cases of autoimmune diseases, for which HT is quite
effective,
> > there are also "autoimmune mimics," symptoms that appear to be autoimmune
but
> > may actually be caused by infection:
> >
> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21448162
> >
> > This may be something to keep in mind for those who do not have good success
> > with HT; however screening for this, and buy-in from the medical profession
to
> > attempt it, appears limited, in my experience.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, "Alberto" <albertorivas100@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > When my wife started helminthic therapy ,I was researching the fecal
transplants one just in case the HK would not have  worked  for her ; so this
was going to be our fallback position which, luckily, we have not needed. But I
agree that it sounds good. Perhaps you would be interested in going to :
http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/3269844.htm  and perhaps as well other
people might find interesting the article in The Scientist with the date of 18th
of June, I think, "Keeping immunity in check"  by Megan Scudellari, concerning
the possibility of modulating the immune system by other means, a subject that I
find fascinating.  Enjoy--- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, alihardison@
<alihardison@> wrote:>> Hi.> I'm happy to see you post as I've been reading up
on this very thing as Helminths did not help me. Do you think it could help with
severe food allergies/leaky gut? I read up some info.last night and as gross as
it is I think I'm.going to do it!> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone> >
----- Reply message -----> From: "Helen Love" <hematoxophile@>> Date: Sun, Jul
24, 2011 9:25 pm> Subject: [helminthictherapy] Re: Speculation-- Why Doesn't HT
Work for Everyone?> To: <helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com>> > As much as I like
helminths I also think fecal transplants could help a lot of the people whether
autoimmunity or infections is their problem.  If the immune system is
dysregulated due to altered gut flora and is spending time doing unnecessary
things (like attacking harmless antigens) instead of providing a good defense
against infections, fecal bacteriotherapy could fix that.  Maybe that's why it
has had such good results in UC.  The only problem is getting a good donor.  I
talked to a researcher who said basically we need to travel to 3rd world
countries where they haven't been exposed to antibiotics and they had all the
childhood infections without microbiome altering vaccines.  Sounds like a good
business to me if helminthic therapy goes mainstream.  Maybe someone will travel
to a 3rd world country and pick up some feces...:)> > --- In
helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, "donnabeales" <dbeales@> wrote:> >> > Ah, so
now everyone may stone meÂ…  Your co-moderator of the HT list has officially
lost her mind!  As a friend of mine once said, "All who wander are not lost." 
But I confess to some pretty wild wanderings into some areas waaaayy off topic
for this list this week, and I will spare you, gentle readers, from some of the
unfruitful meanderings.> > > > However a few things I unearthed may be
fruitful.  I have a shiny new diagnosis of antibody-negative "Sjogren's
syndrome," which thus far has not been arrested with HT or any other
intervention.  I found a very interesting article related to "sicca," which is
the medical term for dryness of the mucosal membranes (eyes, nose GI tract,
gyn).  It relates a specific type of bacteria to sicca, Tropheryma whipplei,
(Whipple's disease) which may cause vitamin A deficiency and malabsorption. 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12149393 Vitamin A deficiency causes serious
problems with mucosal membranes. Hepatitis viruses can also cause sicca, and
candida has been indirectly implicated.> > > > I also found a very good article
titled "Not All Arthritis is Rheumatoid."  When was it written? 1964!  Why then
does medical science then persist in assuming that all rheumatopathology is
autoimmune?  Sometimes, it's caused by a bug!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15446159> > > > My point is, as we are all
aware, HT doesn't work for everyone.   I appear to be one of the unlucky few who
is still manifesting some form of illness despite the best intentions of HT to
play nicely with my IL6, IL10, TGF-B and several other really nifty things
helminths do that lower inflammatory chemicals and raise anti-inflammatory
ones.  By all rights, HT should have pounded the living daylights out of my
problem, and since it didn't, I come as an aspiring scientist to the Big
Question: why not?> > > > Ulcerative colitis seems to be a tough nut to crack
with HT, the least responsive disease thus far, according to information
recently provided to the HT Forum in the Files section, with a 60% response rate
(still *amazing* by medical standards, BTW!).  Why?  When I plug in UC into
Medline, I find that UC sometimes responds very well to antibiotics.  Right now,
rifaximin is receiving a lot of attention.  It seems to work in some people.> >
> > I have a theory that non-responders to HT have been misdiagnosed with
"autoimmunity" when their real problem is quantifiable infection, like hepatitis
viruses, like Whipple's, like the UC antibiotic responders.  I think there truly
*are* autoimmune states, and those people properly diagnosed should do very well
with HT, as we've seen.> > > > But those with infectious problems may fall
through the cracks.  More often than I care to admit, doctors don't order the
right tests, don't interpret the results of appropriate tests accurately, and
generally stop short of looking beyond a narrow range of "common" diagnoses. 
Too, once they label>
> > >
> >
>

Candida & arthritis:
1: Lee JH. Involvement of T-cell immunoregulation by ochnaflavone in therapeutic
effect on fungal arthritis due to Candida albicans. Arch Pharm Res. 2011
Jul;34(7):1209-17. Epub 2011 Aug 3. PubMed PMID: 21811929.

Cancer in relation to autoimmunity:
3: Hemminki K, Liu X, Ji J, Sundquist J, Sundquist K. Autoimmune disease and
subsequent digestive tract cancer by histology. Ann Oncol. 2011 Aug 2. [Epub
ahead of print] PubMed PMID: 21810731.

At:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21128244.500-citizen-scientists-eat-worms-\
to-treat-disorders.html

The editorial is especially interesting as it encourages expedited research:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21128243.500-let-them-eat-worms.html

I think Donna has hit the nail on the head.  We treated our son for allergies
before we found out his body was raging with Lyme (Bb bacteria) and the usual
host of co-infections.  Lyme & company can mimic chronic fatigue symdrome, MS,
alzeheimers, bi-polar, and more.  (Have not seen UC & related show up.) That
does not mean that some of these symptoms aren't caused by infection. We have
moved beyond using just abx for treatment and are now supplementing with
coiling.  HT was extremely useful in improving the quality of life for our son. 
He went from "boy in a bubble" to being able to function.  As we have beat back
the Lyme, he has improved even more.  So, even thought the HW helped, they were
never going to do it all until we got the infection under control. It is well to
keep in mind that most of the docs you are seeing are not doing research and do
not have the time or motivation to do so.  In fact, the AMA and the FDA would
seriously hamper anything outside the lane.  You may have to move beyond your
conventional comfort zone to take your personal health to a higher level. I
thought we were on the edge with HT...what a lot we had to learn.

That's interesting, Carolyn about HT & Lyme; do I understand that you're
treating your son, who has had Lyme disease (diagnosed by laboratory means, I
assume) with HT because he has a persisting set of symptoms despite antibiotics?

My understanding is that if you have a history of an infection like Lyme
disease, HT might be a dicey proposition.  There's some support for the idea
that Lyme persists in the synovial fluid at levels that are not detectable
without a biopsy, and that HT may reactivate the infection.

I know that some of the providers won't offer HT if you have a known Lyme
exposure.  I'm not sure how this was arrived at, but a guess is that it mirrors
what happens when Lyme patients are given monoclonal antibodies and suddenly get
worse.  I stumbled on this yesterday as one example, but I often don't post
everything I come across when it doesn't seem relevant to current discussion:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20184613

Someone I know is considering HT, but one of the considerations is whether or
not this person has had a positive Lyme titer.  If so, I would hesitate to
consider HT, frankly.  So this is not a hypothetical discussion for me; it's a
very real concern.

Food for thought.


--- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, "carolynvlong" <carolyn@...> wrote:
>
> I think Donna has hit the nail on the head.  We treated our son for allergies
before we found out his body was raging with Lyme (Bb bacteria) and the usual
host of co-infections.  Lyme & company can mimic chronic fatigue symdrome, MS,
alzeheimers, bi-polar, and more.  (Have not seen UC & related show up.) That
does not mean that some of these symptoms aren't caused by infection. We have
moved beyond using just abx for treatment and are now supplementing with
coiling.  HT was extremely useful in improving the quality of life for our son. 
He went from "boy in a bubble" to being able to function.  As we have beat back
the Lyme, he has improved even more.  So, even thought the HW helped, they were
never going to do it all until we got the infection under control. It is well to
keep in mind that most of the docs you are seeing are not doing research and do
not have the time or motivation to do so.  In fact, the AMA and the FDA would
seriously hamper anything outside the lane.  You may have to move beyond your
conventional comfort zone to take your personal health to a higher level. I
thought we were on the edge with HT...what a lot we had to learn.
>

wow, new scientist is very mainstream and is read by a lot of people (not just
sciency types). HT is seemingly gathering some momentum

Its a shame the article is subscription only. I guess I'll have to buy the
magazine, unless anyone wants to paste it onto here, maybe in the files section?

I think you can register & view the article without a subscription-- that's how
I viewed it.

We can only post files with permission of the publisher, alas, but thanks for
the suggestion.

--- In helminthictherapy@yahoogroups.com, "bernardslaven" <9hilly9@...> wrote:
>
>
> wow, new scientist is very mainstream and is read by a lot of people (not just
sciency types). HT is seemingly gathering some momentum
>
> Its a shame the article is subscription only. I guess I'll have to buy the
magazine, unless anyone wants to paste it onto here, maybe in the files section?
>

Hi Carolyn
Can you share more about your sons allergies? Are they Ige mediated?  How has
treating lymes helped? What prompted you to test for that? Has it changed the
Ige levels?  Are you using helminths as well.  Thanks Denise

T-Mobile. America’s First Nationwide 4G Network

carolynvlong <carolyn@...> wrote:

>I think Donna has hit the nail on the head.  We treated our son for allergies
before we found out his body was raging with Lyme (Bb bacteria) and the usual
host of co-infections.  Lyme & company can mimic chronic fatigue symdrome, MS,
alzeheimers, bi-polar, and more.  (Have not seen UC & related show up.) That
does not mean that some of these symptoms aren't caused by infection. We have
moved beyond using just abx for treatment and are now supplementing with
coiling.  HT was extremely useful in improving the quality of life for our son. 
He went from "boy in a bubble" to being able to function.  As we have beat back
the Lyme, he has improved even more.  So, even thought the HW helped, they were
never going to do it all until we got the infection under control. It is well to
keep in mind that most of the docs you are seeing are not doing research and do
not have the time or motivation to do so.  In fact, the AMA and the FDA would
seriously hamper anything outside the lane.  You may have to move beyond your
conventional comfort zone to take your personal health to a higher level. I
thought we were on the edge with HT...what a lot we had to learn.
>

Are there any enthusiasts for MMS out there?  MMS has a big following and is
claimed to have a beneficial effect in that it destroys harmful bacteria and
viruses in  a human.  It is also used to disinfect water where it is claimed to
kill "parasites".
Is there any evidence that the use of MMS taken orally has a bad effect on any
of the three commonly used HT organisms?