Hi Redhatrebel,

I had my pacemaker implanted about 3 years ago for intermittent Atrioventricular block which made me dizzy and sometimes black out. If you have your AV node ablated it will give you complete AV block, which means you will be mostly reliant on a pacemaker to stimulate your ventricles. ( not sure how much cardiology you know, just ignore if you know all this already). 

The pacemaker sorted the problem immediately. They are amazing as long as you get the correct one for your condition, for example if you were in AF constantly then you would just need one to stimulate the ventricles and completely ignore your fibrillating atria. If you get intermittent AF you need one that can monitor your atrial rhythm, and follow it when it is in a normal rhythm, but ignore it when in AF. 

This way you maintain your normal rhythm/heart rates as much as possible, which is always best. I'm sure your cons would know exactly what one is best for you. 

I now have an ICD as I started getting fast rhythms (ventricular tachycardia) which could be dangerous. The ICD acts as a pacemaker and a defibrillator, so I'm sorted if I go too fast or too slow,or have AV block. 

Once the pacemaker has been implanted and fine tuned for you you'll probably forget it's there. Nowadays they are tiny and the amount of programmable parameter is unbelievable. 

Best Wishes

Bev

xXx The Secret to Happiness is Chocolate xXx

On 4 Jan 2011, at 14:01, redhatrebel60 wrote:

 

Hi Beverley

I will remember the Medazelam my husband has had it for a procedure and didn't remember anything which will do for me.

Hope you don't mind my asking but what did you have a pacemaker fitted for? its been suggested to me along with an AV node if the ablation doesn't work, as my tolerance to meds is very poor.

thanks for posting to me.

redhatrebel

--- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Beverley wrote:
>
> Hi Redhatrebel,
> I've had a few EP studies over the past year, the first was with sedation, the second one was a non invasive one via my pacemaker. For this one I had no sedation and 2 hours of Isoprenaline ( which is like adrenaline) beforehand and during. It was done on CCU and although everyone was fantastic it has to be one of the worse things I have been through. My last EP study was done under general prior to my ICD implant.
> When you have your study ask for some Medazelam, it's a sedative that also effects your short term memory so even if it's an awful experience you can't remember it. I had it for my first one and would highly recommend it!!
> I'm also on Bisoprolol (5mg) and the dreaded amiodarone, which I am not particularly enjoying ( the amio is fine but the biso knocks me out!) but at the moment it's keeping the arrhythmia at bay - I've had a few scary experiences that I'm keen to avoid happening again. The meds do make me feel rubbish though. I love running too,and they do limit me a bit, but they also stop me overdoing it which used to aggravate things.
> Have a lovely holiday
> Bev xXx
>
> xXx The Secret to Happiness is Chocolate xXx
>
> On 2 Jan 2011, at 16:21, redhatrebel60 wrote:
>
> > Hi Gloria and Mike Happy New Year to you and all who use this site.
> >
> > I haven't had a general anaesthetic for ablation I am sedated but only gradually so when they are putting the catheter in I am fully awake, I did say I wouldn't have it done again but then sought a second opinion and I am going to a different hospital next time so hope it will be ok.
> >
> > I do get the airport staff to look after me they have always been smashing escorting me to my flights and in Aus i have been admitted to hospital and they were more thorough than here and did tests and told me I was dehydrated which causes the magnesium levels to fall which can effect AF I was given some magnesium to drink before discharge and told to make sure I drank plenty. So if I am sensible I should be ok.
> >
> > Redhatrebel60
> >
> > --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Gloria wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Don't you have general anaesthetic?
> > >
> > > I had it without once and that was more than enough I didn't like it and
> > > the Consultant didn't either lol but we got there in the end
> > >
> > > Hope you are going to be OK for you trip to Oz
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com]
> > > Sent: 31 December 2010 12:45
> > > To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] 3rd time lucky
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Lets hope my third is lucky too, thats if they can do it at all last time it
> > > took 2 hours to gain groin entry and said might not be possible another time
> > > so I sought a second opinion and he is willing to try had leg MRA to see if
> > > there was a blockage but seems to be all clear so fingers crossed I'm going
> > > to Australia in Feb so thats why I'm having to wait.
> > > --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> , gloria wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 3rd time was lucky for me
> > > >
> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~they told me it was almost unheard of to go to 3
> > > > times!!!!!!!!!
> > > >
> > > > Best of luck, shame you have to wait so long
> > > >
> > > > Gloria
> > > >
> > > > _____
> > > >
> > > > From: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > [mailto:heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> > > > Sent: 29 December 2010 21:03
> > > > To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] Re: an ectopic beat for Redhatrebel
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for this Gloria and Sue it helps to know what other people go
> > > through
> > > > I don't think I'd know if I was having etopics and my EP's haven't
> > > mentioned
> > > > it to me just the AF and Flutter, I'm having my 3rd ablation in March so
> > > > we'll see how it goes.
> > > >
> > > > redhatrebel xx
> > > >
> > > > --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> , Gloria wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > That all sounds familiar
> > > > >
> > > > > I used to worry about it but my Consultant is quite relaxed whereas
> > > other
> > > > > Doctors are not
> > > > >
> > > > > eg
> > > > >
> > > > > I had an arrhythmia one night around midnight (it nearly always happens
> > > > > during the night and usually accompanied with polyuria) I waited until
> > > > > morning and then rang the out of hours Doctor who called me back faster
> > > > than
> > > > > the speed of light. During that minute or so my heart actually returned
> > > to
> > > > > normal rhythm but I asked him how long I should leave it and he said
> > > ....5
> > > > > minutes and dial 999. I explained that I had had it for 8 hours and he
> > > > said
> > > > > well if that was my heart I would have called an ambulance
> > > > >
> > > > > I was confused so I E-mailed my Consultant and he said "you and I both
> > > > know
> > > > > that you can live with it so long as you are on warfarin but if you feel
> > > > > really ill then call an ambulance or come into casualty."
> > > > >
> > > > > I have relaxed about it since then and have always been OK I just feel
> > > > very
> > > > > tired after an arrhythmia and can feel wiped out for up to a week but I
> > > > > don't feel really ill just really lifeless if that makes sense. Luckily
> > > I
> > > > > don't have many now I think I may have had one or two this year so rare
> > > I
> > > > > can't even remember
> > > > >
> > > > > I know a lot of older people are always out of rhythm and just live with
> > > > it
> > > > > from day to day but it is hard to be active and I should think having to
> > > > go
> > > > > to work is impossible
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't think a doctor has a right to give anyone "short shrift." If
> > > they
> > > > > do not have the knowledge to explain it to you then they should refer
> > > you
> > > > to
> > > > > someone who can. Electrophysiology is a speciality just like paediatrics
> > > > or
> > > > > rheumatology A GP cannot know everything and in my experience their
> > > > > knowledge is limited.
> > > > >
> > > > > I recently took some antibiotics back to my GP because the instructions
> > > > > inside said they were not suitable for people who had problems with
> > > > asprin.
> > > > > I was told that they didn't know what was in them and I should talk to
> > > the
> > > > > Pharmacist!!!!!!!!!!!
> > > > >
> > > > > I told her I had read the instructions and as I did have a problem with
> > > > > asprin then I wouldn't be taking them. I suspect a lot of people never
> > > > read
> > > > > instructions because they believe the doctor knows best
> > > > >
> > > > > _____
> > > > >
> > > > > From: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > [mailto:heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> > > > > Sent: 29 December 2010 15:59
> > > > > To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] an ectopic beat for Redhatrebel
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > for me, it feels like a sort of "knocking" or thumping sensation inside
> >

 

Thanks Bev always good to have different peoples take on the subject do you take warfarin? Its all clever stuff will see how the ablation goes first my EP says pacemaker is the last resort.

Chrissy xx

--- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Bev wrote:
>
> Hi Redhatrebel,
> I had my pacemaker implanted about 3 years ago for intermittent Atrioventricular block which made me dizzy and sometimes black out. If you have your AV node ablated it will give you complete AV block, which means you will be mostly reliant on a pacemaker to stimulate your ventricles. ( not sure how much cardiology you know, just ignore if you know all this already).
> The pacemaker sorted the problem immediately. They are amazing as long as you get the correct one for your condition, for example if you were in AF constantly then you would just need one to stimulate the ventricles and completely ignore your fibrillating atria. If you get intermittent AF you need one that can monitor your atrial rhythm, and follow it when it is in a normal rhythm, but ignore it when in AF.
> This way you maintain your normal rhythm/heart rates as much as possible, which is always best. I'm sure your cons would know exactly what one is best for you.
> I now have an ICD as I started getting fast rhythms (ventricular tachycardia) which could be dangerous. The ICD acts as a pacemaker and a defibrillator, so I'm sorted if I go too fast or too slow,or have AV block.
> Once the pacemaker has been implanted and fine tuned for you you'll probably forget it's there. Nowadays they are tiny and the amount of programmable parameter is unbelievable.
> Best Wishes
> Bev
>
> xXx The Secret to Happiness is Chocolate xXx
>
> On 4 Jan 2011, at 14:01, redhatrebel60 wrote:
>
> > Hi Beverley
> >
> > I will remember the Medazelam my husband has had it for a procedure and didn't remember anything which will do for me.
> >
> > Hope you don't mind my asking but what did you have a pacemaker fitted for? its been suggested to me along with an AV node if the ablation doesn't work, as my tolerance to meds is very poor.
> >
> > thanks for posting to me.
> >
> > redhatrebel
> >
> > --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Beverley wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Redhatrebel,
> > > I've had a few EP studies over the past year, the first was with sedation, the second one was a non invasive one via my pacemaker. For this one I had no sedation and 2 hours of Isoprenaline ( which is like adrenaline) beforehand and during. It was done on CCU and although everyone was fantastic it has to be one of the worse things I have been through. My last EP study was done under general prior to my ICD implant.
> > > When you have your study ask for some Medazelam, it's a sedative that also effects your short term memory so even if it's an awful experience you can't remember it. I had it for my first one and would highly recommend it!!
> > > I'm also on Bisoprolol (5mg) and the dreaded amiodarone, which I am not particularly enjoying ( the amio is fine but the biso knocks me out!) but at the moment it's keeping the arrhythmia at bay - I've had a few scary experiences that I'm keen to avoid happening again. The meds do make me feel rubbish though. I love running too,and they do limit me a bit, but they also stop me overdoing it which used to aggravate things.
> > > Have a lovely holiday
> > > Bev xXx
> > >
> > > xXx The Secret to Happiness is Chocolate xXx
> > >
> > > On 2 Jan 2011, at 16:21, redhatrebel60 wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Gloria and Mike Happy New Year to you and all who use this site.
> > > >
> > > > I haven't had a general anaesthetic for ablation I am sedated but only gradually so when they are putting the catheter in I am fully awake, I did say I wouldn't have it done again but then sought a second opinion and I am going to a different hospital next time so hope it will be ok.
> > > >
> > > > I do get the airport staff to look after me they have always been smashing escorting me to my flights and in Aus i have been admitted to hospital and they were more thorough than here and did tests and told me I was dehydrated which causes the magnesium levels to fall which can effect AF I was given some magnesium to drink before discharge and told to make sure I drank plenty. So if I am sensible I should be ok.
> > > >
> > > > Redhatrebel60
> > > >
> > > > --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Gloria wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Don't you have general anaesthetic?
> > > > >
> > > > > I had it without once and that was more than enough I didn't like it and
> > > > > the Consultant didn't either lol but we got there in the end
> > > > >
> > > > > Hope you are going to be OK for you trip to Oz
> > > > >
> > > > > _____
> > > > >
> > > > > From: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > [mailto:heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com]
> > > > > Sent: 31 December 2010 12:45
> > > > > To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] 3rd time lucky
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Lets hope my third is lucky too, thats if they can do it at all last time it
> > > > > took 2 hours to gain groin entry and said might not be possible another time
> > > > > so I sought a second opinion and he is willing to try had leg MRA to see if
> > > > > there was a blockage but seems to be all clear so fingers crossed I'm going
> > > > > to Australia in Feb so thats why I'm having to wait.
> > > > > --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> , gloria wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3rd time was lucky for me
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~they told me it was almost unheard of to go to 3
> > > > > > times!!!!!!!!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best of luck, shame you have to wait so long
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Gloria
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _____
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > [mailto:heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> > > > > > Sent: 29 December 2010 21:03
> > > > > > To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] Re: an ectopic beat for Redhatrebel
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for this Gloria and Sue it helps to know what other people go
> > > > > through
> > > > > > I don't think I'd know if I was having etopics and my EP's haven't
> > > > > mentioned
> > > > > > it to me just the AF and Flutter, I'm having my 3rd ablation in March so
> > > > > > we'll see how it goes.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > redhatrebel xx
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> , Gloria wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That all sounds familiar
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I used to worry about it but my Consultant is quite relaxed whereas
> > > > > other
> > > > > > > Doctors are not
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > eg
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I had an arrhythmia one night around midnight (it nearly always happens
> > > > > > > during the night and usually accompanied with polyuria) I waited until
> > > > > > > morning and then rang the out of hours Doctor who called me back faster
> > > > > > than
> > > > > > > the speed of light. During that minute or so my heart actually returned
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > normal rhythm but I asked him how long I should leave it and he said
> > > > > ....5
> > > > > > > minutes and dial 999. I explained that I had had it for 8 hours and he
> > > > > > said
> > > > > > > well if that was my heart I would have called an ambulance
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I was confused so I E-mailed my Consultant and he said "you and I both
> > > > > > know
> > > > > > > that you can live with it so long as you are on warfarin but if you feel
> > > > > > > really ill then call an ambulance or come into casualty."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have relaxed about it since then and have always been OK I just feel
> > > > > > very
> > > > > > > tired after an arrhythmia and can feel wiped out for up to a week but I
> > > > > > > don't feel really ill just really lifeless if that makes sense. Luckily
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > don't have many now I think I may have had one or two this year so rare
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > can't even remember
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I know a lot of older people are always out of rhythm and just live with
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > from day to day but it is hard to be active and I should think having to
> > > > > > go
> > > > > > > to work is impossible
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't think a doctor has a right to give anyone "short shrift." If
> > > > > they
> > > > > > > do not have the knowledge to explain it to you then they should refer
> > > > > you
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > someone who can. Electrophysiology is a speciality just like paediatrics
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > > rheumatology A GP cannot know everything and in my experience their
> > > > > > > knowledge is limited.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I recently took some antibiotics back to my GP because the instructions
> > > > > > > inside said they were not suitable for people who had problems with
> > > > > > asprin.
> > > > > > > I was told that they didn't know what was in them and I should talk to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > Pharmacist!!!!!!!!!!!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I told her I had read the instructions and as I did have a problem with
> > > > > > > asprin then I wouldn't be taking them. I suspect a lot of people never
> > > > > > read
> > > > > > > instructions because they believe the doctor knows best
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _____
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > [mailto:heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> > > > > > > Sent: 29 December 2010 15:59
> > > > > > > To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] an ectopic beat for Redhatrebel
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > for me, it feels like a sort of "knocking" or thumping sensation inside
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > chest a bit like a hiccup does? sort of painful in the sense that its a
> > > > > > > discomfort rather than a "pain" and mine are rhythmic in that they fire
> > > > > > off
> > > > > > > in a "regular" manner but in an annoying stop-start with a sudden PAUSE
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > feels as though somehow your heart has "fallen" off its perch and
> > > > > > initially
> > > > > > > a worrying time pondering whether to rush to the Dr's to report a
> > > > > > > dropped-heart lying somewhere in amongst the liver area when just as
> > > > > > you've
> > > > > > > RUNG for an urgent appointment all of a sudden its catapaulted BACK from
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > depths and onto the perch and behaves in PERFECT RYHTHM AND TIMING and
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > either have to hope the GP believes you that you WERE having a "moment"
> > > > > OR
> > > > > > > you phone back to cancel the appt. The problem is the minute you cancel
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > appt, the stress and excitement of it all sets off the ectopics into a
> > > > > > fast
> > > > > > > frenzy and THATS what I'm told is the pre-cursor to the Afib.
> > > > > > > It is the Afib that is the more worrying and the most interest to the
> > > > > Dr's
> > > > > > > it is the ectopics that is the more annoying to us but the Dr's do not
> > > > > > > recognise it and if you book an urgent appt with an ectopic you soon get
> > > > > > > short thrift and learn to put up with it!
> > > > > > > Sue x
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> , redhatrebel60 wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi Gloria
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks for replying what is an ace inhibitor? and what does a ectopic
> > > > > > beat
> > > > > > > feel like?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Redhatrebel60
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>

 

Just when you think your situation is stabilized .. I woke up at 2am with some sweats, some aching teeth, and a 220 pace o' watch. It went down to 110 but then after stair climbing to find some things to make me comfortable in went back to 220 and stayed there for an hour.  Then, all a sudden, it roared like a jet plane down to 55.  Sweet relief!  Stayed for about 2 minutes and now I am at 115 and comfortable.  (I am 51 and on aspirin plus 75mg of metoprolol.)  Oh, and polyuria perhaps.

In some fun news, I spoke for 2 hours on the phone with Eric of the Bay City Rollers, who has a proposition for me for some stateside business.  Was anyone here a fan?  His Scot accent plus a phone that seemed to be perpetually getting a second call which he ignored ... caused me to understand only half of what he was saying.  That's some tough accent for a Midwestern yank! (-:

 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 4, 2011, at 12:09 PM, Bev wrote:

 

Hi Redhatrebel,

I had my pacemaker implanted about 3 years ago for intermittent Atrioventricular block which made me dizzy and sometimes black out. If you have your AV node ablated it will give you complete AV block, which means you will be mostly reliant on a pacemaker to stimulate your ventricles. ( not sure how much cardiology you know, just ignore if you know all this already). 

The pacemaker sorted the problem immediately. They are amazing as long as you get the correct one for your condition, for example if you were in AF constantly then you would just need one to stimulate the ventricles and completely ignore your fibrillating atria. If you get intermittent AF you need one that can monitor your atrial rhythm, and follow it when it is in a normal rhythm, but ignore it when in AF. 

This way you maintain your normal rhythm/heart rates as much as possible, which is always best. I'm sure your cons would know exactly what one is best for you. 

I now have an ICD as I started getting fast rhythms (ventricular tachycardia) which could be dangerous. The ICD acts as a pacemaker and a defibrillator, so I'm sorted if I go too fast or too slow,or have AV block. 

Once the pacemaker has been implanted and fine tuned for you you'll probably forget it's there. Nowadays they are tiny and the amount of programmable parameter is unbelievable. 

Best Wishes

Bev

xXx The Secret to Happiness is Chocolate xXx

On 4 Jan 2011, at 14:01, redhatrebel60 wrote:

 

Hi Beverley

I will remember the Medazelam my husband has had it for a procedure and didn't remember anything which will do for me.

Hope you don't mind my asking but what did you have a pacemaker fitted for? its been suggested to me along with an AV node if the ablation doesn't work, as my tolerance to meds is very poor.

thanks for posting to me.

redhatrebel

--- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Beverley wrote:
>
> Hi Redhatrebel,
> I've had a few EP studies over the past year, the first was with sedation, the second one was a non invasive one via my pacemaker. For this one I had no sedation and 2 hours of Isoprenaline ( which is like adrenaline) beforehand and during. It was done on CCU and although everyone was fantastic it has to be one of the worse things I have been through. My last EP study was done under general prior to my ICD implant.
> When you have your study ask for some Medazelam, it's a sedative that also effects your short term memory so even if it's an awful experience you can't remember it. I had it for my first one and would highly recommend it!!
> I'm also on Bisoprolol (5mg) and the dreaded amiodarone, which I am not particularly enjoying ( the amio is fine but the biso knocks me out!) but at the moment it's keeping the arrhythmia at bay - I've had a few scary experiences that I'm keen to avoid happening again. The meds do make me feel rubbish though. I love running too,and they do limit me a bit, but they also stop me overdoing it which used to aggravate things.
> Have a lovely holiday
> Bev xXx
>
> xXx The Secret to Happiness is Chocolate xXx
>
> On 2 Jan 2011, at 16:21, redhatrebel60 wrote:
>
> > Hi Gloria and Mike Happy New Year to you and all who use this site.
> >
> > I haven't had a general anaesthetic for ablation I am sedated but only gradually so when they are putting the catheter in I am fully awake, I did say I wouldn't have it done again but then sought a second opinion and I am going to a different hospital next time so hope it will be ok.
> >
> > I do get the airport staff to look after me they have always been smashing escorting me to my flights and in Aus i have been admitted to hospital and they were more thorough than here and did tests and told me I was dehydrated which causes the magnesium levels to fall which can effect AF I was given some magnesium to drink before discharge and told to make sure I drank plenty. So if I am sensible I should be ok.
> >
> > Redhatrebel60
> >
> > --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Gloria wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Don't you have general anaesthetic?
> > >
> > > I had it without once and that was more than enough I didn't like it and
> > > the Consultant didn't either lol but we got there in the end
> > >
> > > Hope you are going to be OK for you trip to Oz
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com]
> > > Sent: 31 December 2010 12:45
> > > To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] 3rd time lucky
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Lets hope my third is lucky too, thats if they can do it at all last time it
> > > took 2 hours to gain groin entry and said might not be possible another time
> > > so I sought a second opinion and he is willing to try had leg MRA to see if
> > > there was a blockage but seems to be all clear so fingers crossed I'm going
> > > to Australia in Feb so thats why I'm having to wait.
> > > --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> , gloria wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 3rd time was lucky for me
> > > >
> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~they told me it was almost unheard of to go to 3
> > > > times!!!!!!!!!
> > > >
> > > > Best of luck, shame you have to wait so long
> > > >
> > > > Gloria
> > > >
> > > > _____
> > > >
> > > > From: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > [mailto:heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> > > > Sent: 29 December 2010 21:03
> > > > To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] Re: an ectopic beat for Redhatrebel
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for this Gloria and Sue it helps to know what other people go
> > > through
> > > > I don't think I'd know if I was having etopics and my EP's haven't
> > > mentioned
> > > > it to me just the AF and Flutter, I'm having my 3rd ablation in March so
> > > > we'll see how it goes.
> > > >
> > > > redhatrebel xx
> > > >
> > > > --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> , Gloria wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > That all sounds familiar
> > > > >
> > > > > I used to worry about it but my Consultant is quite relaxed whereas
> > > other
> > > > > Doctors are not
> > > > >
> > > > > eg
> > > > >
> > > > > I had an arrhythmia one night around midnight (it nearly always happens
> > > > > during the night and usually accompanied with polyuria) I waited until
> > > > > morning and then rang the out of hours Doctor who called me back faster
> > > > than
> > > > > the speed of light. During that minute or so my heart actually returned
> > > to
> > > > > normal rhythm but I asked him how long I should leave it and he said
> > > ....5
> > > > > minutes and dial 999. I explained that I had had it for 8 hours and he
> > > > said
> > > > > well if that was my heart I would have called an ambulance
> > > > >
> > > > > I was confused so I E-mailed my Consultant and he said "you and I both
> > > > know
> > > > > that you can live with it so long as you are on warfarin but if you feel
> > > > > really ill then call an ambulance or come into casualty."
> > > > >
> > > > > I have relaxed about it since then and have always been OK I just feel
> > > > very
> > > > > tired after an arrhythmia and can feel wiped out for up to a week but I
> > > > > don't feel really ill just really lifeless if that makes sense. Luckily
> > > I
> > > > > don't have many now I think I may have had one or two this year so rare
> > > I
> > > > > can't even remember
> > > > >
> > > > > I know a lot of older people are always out of rhythm and just live with
> > > > it
> > > > > from day to day but it is hard to be active and I should think having to
> > > > go
> > > > > to work is impossible
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't think a doctor has a right to give anyone "short shrift." If
> > > they
> > > > > do not have the knowledge to explain it to you then they should refer
> > > you
> > > > to
> > > > > someone who can. Electrophysiology is a speciality just like paediatrics
> > > > or
> > > > > rheumatology A GP cannot know everything and in my experience their
> > > > > knowledge is limited.
> > > > >
> > > > > I recently took some antibiotics back to my GP because the instructions
> > > > > inside said they were not suitable for people who had problems with
> > > > asprin.
> > > > > I was told that they didn't know what was in them and I should talk to
> > > the
> > > > > Pharmacist!!!!!!!!!!!
> > > > >
> > > > > I told her I had read the instructions and as I did have a problem with
> > > > > asprin then I wouldn't be taking them. I suspect a lot of people never
> > > > read
> > > > > instructions because they believe the doctor knows best
> > > > >
> > > > > _____
> > > > >
> > > > > From: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > [mailto:heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> > > > > Sent: 29 December 2010 15:59
> > > > > To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] an ectopic beat for Redhatrebel
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > for me, it feels like a sort of "knocking" or thumping sensation inside
> >

 

Are y still able to drink alcohol with a pacemaker bev --- On Wed, 5/1/11, Chrissy@... <Chrissy@...> wrote: From: Chrissy@... <Chrissy@...> Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] Re: pacemaker To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, 5 January, 2011, 9:44   Thanks Bev always good to have different peoples take on the subject do you take warfarin? Its all clever stuff will see how the ablation goes first my EP says pacemaker is the last resort. Chrissy xx --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Bev wrote: > > Hi Redhatrebel, > I had my pacemaker implanted about 3 years ago for intermittent Atrioventricular block which made me dizzy and sometimes black out. If you have your AV node ablated it will give you complete AV block, which means you will be mostly reliant on a pacemaker to stimulate your ventricles. ( not sure how much cardiology you know, just ignore if you know all this already). > The pacemaker sorted the problem immediately. They are amazing as long as you get the correct one for your condition, for example if you were in AF constantly then you would just need one to stimulate the ventricles and completely ignore your fibrillating atria. If you get intermittent AF you need one that can monitor your atrial rhythm, and follow it when it is in a normal rhythm, but ignore it when in AF. > This way you maintain your normal rhythm/heart rates as much as possible, which is always best. I'm sure your cons would know exactly what one is best for you. > I now have an ICD as I started getting fast rhythms (ventricular tachycardia) which could be dangerous. The ICD acts as a pacemaker and a defibrillator, so I'm sorted if I go too fast or too slow,or have AV block. > Once the pacemaker has been implanted and fine tuned for you you'll probably forget it's there. Nowadays they are tiny and the amount of programmable parameter is unbelievable. > Best Wishes > Bev > > xXx The Secret to Happiness is Chocolate xXx > > On 4 Jan 2011, at 14:01, redhatrebel60 wrote: > > > Hi Beverley > > > > I will remember the Medazelam my husband has had it for a procedure and didn't remember anything which will do for me. > > > > Hope you don't mind my asking but what did you have a pacemaker fitted for? its been suggested to me along with an AV node if the ablation doesn't work, as my tolerance to meds is very poor. > > > > thanks for posting to me. > > > > redhatrebel > > > > --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Beverley wrote: > > > > > > Hi Redhatrebel, > > > I've had a few EP studies over the past year, the first was with sedation, the second one was a non invasive one via my pacemaker. For this one I had no sedation and 2 hours of Isoprenaline ( which is like adrenaline) beforehand and during. It was done on CCU and although everyone was fantastic it has to be one of the worse things I have been through. My last EP study was done under general prior to my ICD implant. > > > When you have your study ask for some Medazelam, it's a sedative that also effects your short term memory so even if it's an awful experience you can't remember it. I had it for my first one and would highly recommend it!! > > > I'm also on Bisoprolol (5mg) and the dreaded amiodarone, which I am not particularly enjoying ( the amio is fine but the biso knocks me out!) but at the moment it's keeping the arrhythmia at bay - I've had a few scary experiences that I'm keen to avoid happening again. The meds do make me feel rubbish though. I love running too,and they do limit me a bit, but they also stop me overdoing it which used to aggravate things. > > > Have a lovely holiday > > > Bev xXx > > > > > > xXx The Secret to Happiness is Chocolate xXx > > > > > > On 2 Jan 2011, at 16:21, redhatrebel60 wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Gloria and Mike Happy New Year to you and all who use this site. > > > > > > > > I haven't had a general anaesthetic for ablation I am sedated but only gradually so when they are putting the catheter in I am fully awake, I did say I wouldn't have it done again but then sought a second opinion and I am going to a different hospital next time so hope it will be ok. > > > > > > > > I do get the airport staff to look after me they have always been smashing escorting me to my flights and in Aus i have been admitted to hospital and they were more thorough than here and did tests and told me I was dehydrated which causes the magnesium levels to fall which can effect AF I was given some magnesium to drink before discharge and told to make sure I drank plenty. So if I am sensible I should be ok. > > > > > > > > Redhatrebel60 > > > > > > > > --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Gloria wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't you have general anaesthetic? > > > > > > > > > > I had it without once and that was more than enough I didn't like it and > > > > > the Consultant didn't either lol but we got there in the end > > > > > > > > > > Hope you are going to be OK for you trip to Oz > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > From: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com > > > > > [mailto:heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com] > > > > > Sent: 31 December 2010 12:45 > > > > > To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] 3rd time lucky > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lets hope my third is lucky too, thats if they can do it at all last time it > > > > > took 2 hours to gain groin entry and said might not be possible another time > > > > > so I sought a second opinion and he is willing to try had leg MRA to see if > > > > > there was a blockage but seems to be all clear so fingers crossed I'm going > > > > > to Australia in Feb so thats why I'm having to wait. > > > > > --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> , gloria wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3rd time was lucky for me > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~they told me it was almost unheard of to go to 3 > > > > > > times!!!!!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Best of luck, shame you have to wait so long > > > > > > > > > > > > Gloria > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > From: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > Sent: 29 December 2010 21:03 > > > > > > To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] Re: an ectopic beat for Redhatrebel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for this Gloria and Sue it helps to know what other people go > > > > > through > > > > > > I don't think I'd know if I was having etopics and my EP's haven't > > > > > mentioned > > > > > > it to me just the AF and Flutter, I'm having my 3rd ablation in March so > > > > > > we'll see how it goes. > > > > > > > > > > > > redhatrebel xx > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> , Gloria wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That all sounds familiar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I used to worry about it but my Consultant is quite relaxed whereas > > > > > other > > > > > > > Doctors are not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had an arrhythmia one night around midnight (it nearly always happens > > > > > > > during the night and usually accompanied with polyuria) I waited until > > > > > > > morning and then rang the out of hours Doctor who called me back faster > > > > > > than > > > > > > > the speed of light. During that minute or so my heart actually returned > > > > > to > > > > > > > normal rhythm but I asked him how long I should leave it and he said > > > > > ....5 > > > > > > > minutes and dial 999. I explained that I had had it for 8 hours and he > > > > > > said > > > > > > > well if that was my heart I would have called an ambulance > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was confused so I E-mailed my Consultant and he said "you and I both > > > > > > know > > > > > > > that you can live with it so long as you are on warfarin but if you feel > > > > > > > really ill then call an ambulance or come into casualty." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have relaxed about it since then and have always been OK I just feel > > > > > > very > > > > > > > tired after an arrhythmia and can feel wiped out for up to a week but I > > > > > > > don't feel really ill just really lifeless if that makes sense. Luckily > > > > > I > > > > > > > don't have many now I think I may have had one or two this year so rare > > > > > I > > > > > > > can't even remember > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know a lot of older people are always out of rhythm and just live with > > > > > > it > > > > > > > from day to day but it is hard to be active and I should think having to > > > > > > go > > > > > > > to work is impossible > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think a doctor has a right to give anyone "short shrift." If > > > > > they > > > > > > > do not have the knowledge to explain it to you then they should refer > > > > > you > > > > > > to > > > > > > > someone who can. Electrophysiology is a speciality just like paediatrics > > > > > > or > > > > > > > rheumatology A GP cannot know everything and in my experience their > > > > > > > knowledge is limited. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I recently took some antibiotics back to my GP because the instructions > > > > > > > inside said they were not suitable for people who had problems with > > > > > > asprin. > > > > > > > I was told that they didn't know what was in them and I should talk to > > > > > the > > > > > > > Pharmacist!!!!!!!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I told her I had read the instructions and as I did have a problem with > > > > > > > asprin then I wouldn't be taking them. I suspect a lot of people never > > > > > > read > > > > > > > instructions because they believe the doctor knows best > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > > > > Sent: 29 December 2010 15:59 > > > > > > > To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] an ectopic beat for Redhatrebel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for me, it feels like a sort of "knocking" or thumping sensation inside > > > > > > the > > > > > > > chest a bit like a hiccup does? sort of painful in the sense that its a > > > > > > > discomfort rather than a "pain" and mine are rhythmic in that they fire > > > > > > off > > > > > > > in a "regular" manner but in an annoying stop-start with a sudden PAUSE > > > > > > that > > > > > > > feels as though somehow your heart has "fallen" off its perch and > > > > > > initially > > > > > > > a worrying time pondering whether to rush to the Dr's to report a > > > > > > > dropped-heart lying somewhere in amongst the liver area when just as > > > > > > you've > > > > > > > RUNG for an urgent appointment all of a sudden its catapaulted BACK from > > > > > > the > > > > > > > depths and onto the perch and behaves in PERFECT RYHTHM AND TIMING and > > > > > you > > > > > > > either have to hope the GP believes you that you WERE having a "moment" > > > > > OR > > > > > > > you phone back to cancel the appt. The problem is the minute you cancel > > > > > > the > > > > > > > appt, the stress and excitement of it all sets off the ectopics into a > > > > > > fast > > > > > > > frenzy and THATS what I'm told is the pre-cursor to the Afib. > > > > > > > It is the Afib that is the more worrying and the most interest to the > > > > > Dr's > > > > > > > it is the ectopics that is the more annoying to us but the Dr's do not > > > > > > > recognise it and if you book an urgent appt with an ectopic you soon get > > > > > > > short thrift and learn to put up with it! > > > > > > > Sue x > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> , redhatrebel60 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Gloria > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for replying what is an ace inhibitor? and what does a ectopic > > > > > > beat > > > > > > > feel like? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Redhatrebel60 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Thanks again for the very positive thoughts Bev.

I remember the Bay City Rollers, Shang A Lang was there biggest hit I think.
although not really my music still lucky you mixing with celebs.



RedHatrebel60  xx

--- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Bev wrote:
>
> Hi Chrissy,
> No fortunately for me I don't get AF at all so have no need for warfarin.
Let's hope your ablation goes well, it would be lovely to get it all sorted with
no need for meds or a pacemaker!! I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
> Take Care
> Bev xXx
>
> xXx The Secret to Happiness is Chocolate xXx
>
> On 5 Jan 2011, at 09:44, Chrissy wrote:
>
> > Thanks Bev always good to have different peoples take on the subject do you
take warfarin? Its all clever stuff will see how the ablation goes first my EP
says pacemaker is the last resort.
> >
> > Chrissy xx
> >
> > --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Bev wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Redhatrebel,
> > > I had my pacemaker implanted about 3 years ago for intermittent
Atrioventricular block which made me dizzy and sometimes black out. If you have
your AV node ablated it will give you complete AV block, which means you will be
mostly reliant on a pacemaker to stimulate your ventricles. ( not sure how much
cardiology you know, just ignore if you know all this already).
> > > The pacemaker sorted the problem immediately. They are amazing as long as
you get the correct one for your condition, for example if you were in AF
constantly then you would just need one to stimulate the ventricles and
completely ignore your fibrillating atria. If you get intermittent AF you need
one that can monitor your atrial rhythm, and follow it when it is in a normal
rhythm, but ignore it when in AF.
> > > This way you maintain your normal rhythm/heart rates as much as possible,
which is always best. I'm sure your cons would know exactly what one is best for
you.
> > > I now have an ICD as I started getting fast rhythms (ventricular
tachycardia) which could be dangerous. The ICD acts as a pacemaker and a
defibrillator, so I'm sorted if I go too fast or too slow,or have AV block.
> > > Once the pacemaker has been implanted and fine tuned for you you'll
probably forget it's there. Nowadays they are tiny and the amount of
programmable parameter is unbelievable.
> > > Best Wishes
> > > Bev
> > >
> > > xXx The Secret to Happiness is Chocolate xXx
> > >
> > > On 4 Jan 2011, at 14:01, redhatrebel60 wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Beverley
> > > >
> > > > I will remember the Medazelam my husband has had it for a procedure and
didn't remember anything which will do for me.
> > > >
> > > > Hope you don't mind my asking but what did you have a pacemaker fitted
for? its been suggested to me along with an AV node if the ablation doesn't
work, as my tolerance to meds is very poor.
> > > >
> > > > thanks for posting to me.
> > > >
> > > > redhatrebel
> > > >
> > > > --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Beverley wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Redhatrebel,
> > > > > I've had a few EP studies over the past year, the first was with
sedation, the second one was a non invasive one via my pacemaker. For this one I
had no sedation and 2 hours of Isoprenaline ( which is like adrenaline)
beforehand and during. It was done on CCU and although everyone was fantastic it
has to be one of the worse things I have been through. My last EP study was done
under general prior to my ICD implant.
> > > > > When you have your study ask for some Medazelam, it's a sedative that
also effects your short term memory so even if it's an awful experience you
can't remember it. I had it for my first one and would highly recommend it!!
> > > > > I'm also on Bisoprolol (5mg) and the dreaded amiodarone, which I am
not particularly enjoying ( the amio is fine but the biso knocks me out!) but at
the moment it's keeping the arrhythmia at bay - I've had a few scary experiences
that I'm keen to avoid happening again. The meds do make me feel rubbish though.
I love running too,and they do limit me a bit, but they also stop me overdoing
it which used to aggravate things.
> > > > > Have a lovely holiday
> > > > > Bev xXx
> > > > >
> > > > > xXx The Secret to Happiness is Chocolate xXx
> > > > >
> > > > > On 2 Jan 2011, at 16:21, redhatrebel60 wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Gloria and Mike Happy New Year to you and all who use this site.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I haven't had a general anaesthetic for ablation I am sedated but
only gradually so when they are putting the catheter in I am fully awake, I did
say I wouldn't have it done again but then sought a second opinion and I am
going to a different hospital next time so hope it will be ok.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I do get the airport staff to look after me they have always been
smashing escorting me to my flights and in Aus i have been admitted to hospital
and they were more thorough than here and did tests and told me I was dehydrated
which causes the magnesium levels to fall which can effect AF I was given some
magnesium to drink before discharge and told to make sure I drank plenty. So if
I am sensible I should be ok.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Redhatrebel60
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Gloria wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Don't you have general anaesthetic?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I had it without once and that was more than enough I didn't like
it and
> > > > > > > the Consultant didn't either lol but we got there in the end
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hope you are going to be OK for you trip to Oz
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _____
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > [mailto:heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com]
> > > > > > > Sent: 31 December 2010 12:45
> > > > > > > To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] 3rd time lucky
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Lets hope my third is lucky too, thats if they can do it at all
last time it
> > > > > > > took 2 hours to gain groin entry and said might not be possible
another time
> > > > > > > so I sought a second opinion and he is willing to try had leg MRA
to see if
> > > > > > > there was a blockage but seems to be all clear so fingers crossed
I'm going
> > > > > > > to Australia in Feb so thats why I'm having to wait.
> > > > > > > --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> , gloria wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 3rd time was lucky for me
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~they told me it was almost unheard of to go to 3
> > > > > > > > times!!!!!!!!!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Best of luck, shame you have to wait so long
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Gloria
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _____
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > From: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > [mailto:heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> > > > > > > > Sent: 29 December 2010 21:03
> > > > > > > > To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] Re: an ectopic beat for
Redhatrebel
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks for this Gloria and Sue it helps to know what other
people go
> > > > > > > through
> > > > > > > > I don't think I'd know if I was having etopics and my EP's
haven't
> > > > > > > mentioned
> > > > > > > > it to me just the AF and Flutter, I'm having my 3rd ablation in
March so
> > > > > > > > we'll see how it goes.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > redhatrebel xx
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> , Gloria wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > That all sounds familiar
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I used to worry about it but my Consultant is quite relaxed
whereas
> > > > > > > other
> > > > > > > > > Doctors are not
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > eg
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I had an arrhythmia one night around midnight (it nearly
always happens
> > > > > > > > > during the night and usually accompanied with polyuria) I
waited until
> > > > > > > > > morning and then rang the out of hours Doctor who called me
back faster
> > > > > > > > than
> > > > > > > > > the speed of light. During that minute or so my heart actually
returned
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > normal rhythm but I asked him how long I should leave it and
he said
> > > > > > > ....5
> > > > > > > > > minutes and dial 999. I explained that I had had it for 8
hours and he
> > > > > > > > said
> > > > > > > > > well if that was my heart I would have called an ambulance
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I was confused so I E-mailed my Consultant and he said "you
and I both
> > > > > > > > know
> > > > > > > > > that you can live with it so long as you are on warfarin but
if you feel
> > > > > > > > > really ill then call an ambulance or come into casualty."
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I have relaxed about it since then and have always been OK I
just feel
> > > > > > > > very
> > > > > > > > > tired after an arrhythmia and can feel wiped out for up to a
week but I
> > > > > > > > > don't feel really ill just really lifeless if that makes
sense. Luckily
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > don't have many now I think I may have had one or two this
year so rare
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > can't even remember
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I know a lot of older people are always out of rhythm and just
live with
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > from day to day but it is hard to be active and I should think
having to
> > > > > > > > go
> > > > > > > > > to work is impossible
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I don't think a doctor has a right to give anyone "short
shrift." If
> > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > do not have the knowledge to explain it to you then they
should refer
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > someone who can. Electrophysiology is a speciality just like
paediatrics
> > > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > rheumatology A GP cannot know everything and in my experience
their
> > > > > > > > > knowledge is limited.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I recently took some antibiotics back to my GP because the
instructions
> > > > > > > > > inside said they were not suitable for people who had problems
with
> > > > > > > > asprin.
> > > > > > > > > I was told that they didn't know what was in them and I should
talk to
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > Pharmacist!!!!!!!!!!!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I told her I had read the instructions and as I did have a
problem with
> > > > > > > > > asprin then I wouldn't be taking them. I suspect a lot of
people never
> > > > > > > > read
> > > > > > > > > instructions because they believe the doctor knows best
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > _____
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > From: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > [mailto:heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> > > > > > > > > Sent: 29 December 2010 15:59
> > > > > > > > > To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] an ectopic beat for Redhatrebel
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > for me, it feels like a sort of "knocking" or thumping
sensation inside
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > chest a bit like a hiccup does? sort of painful in the sense
that its a
> > > > > > > > > discomfort rather than a "pain" and mine are rhythmic in that
they fire
> > > > > > > > off
> > > > > > > > > in a "regular" manner but in an annoying stop-start with a
sudden PAUSE
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > feels as though somehow your heart has "fallen" off its perch
and
> > > > > > > > initially
> > > > > > > > > a worrying time pondering whether to rush to the Dr's to
report a
> > > > > > > > > dropped-heart lying somewhere in amongst the liver area when
just as
> > > > > > > > you've
> > > > > > > > > RUNG for an urgent appointment all of a sudden its catapaulted
BACK from
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > depths and onto the perch and behaves in PERFECT RYHTHM AND
TIMING and
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > either have to hope the GP believes you that you WERE having a
"moment"
> > > > > > > OR
> > > > > > > > > you phone back to cancel the appt. The problem is the minute
you cancel
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > appt, the stress and excitement of it all sets off the
ectopics into a
> > > > > > > > fast
> > > > > > > > > frenzy and THATS what I'm told is the pre-cursor to the Afib.
> > > > > > > > > It is the Afib that is the more worrying and the most interest
to the
> > > > > > > Dr's
> > > > > > > > > it is the ectopics that is the more annoying to us but the
Dr's do not
> > > > > > > > > recognise it and if you book an urgent appt with an ectopic
you soon get
> > > > > > > > > short thrift and learn to put up with it!
> > > > > > > > > Sue x
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > <mailto:heartrhythmcharity%40yahoogroups.com> , redhatrebel60
wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi Gloria
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks for replying what is an ace inhibitor? and what does
a ectopic
> > > > > > > > beat
> > > > > > > > > feel like?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Redhatrebel60
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>

Arrhythmia Alliance would like to share with you this clear and informative video with graphics which teaches more about the Pacemaker and how it paces the heart - Electric Beats - Pacemakers and the Human Heart

Please click on the link to watch the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR0nWe47eek

 

Hi Francesca

 

Thats a very enlightening video; for me anyway, though I don't have a pacemaker. Well not yet anyway.

My immediate quaestion is to ask why and when a pacemaker is deemed necessary as I gather there are many people like me with AF who rely on drugs and ablations to try and get things corrected.

I have not been offered a pacemaker, even after 6 years of AF and have tried all manner of drugs to control. Are they suitable only in certain cases or for particular individuals.

 

I am seeing my consultant next week but any enlightenment on this from anyone else could be useful.

 

Many thanks

 

 

Yep ... "thats me" ...  almost 2 mos. after my first ablation that was deemed a success when I was discharged from the hospital.  The EP docs were practically uncorking champagne at a successful procedure.  No warnings of a relapse or anything.   Within about a day of getting home, my heart started going crazy.  Even with ramped-up metoprolol to 75mg, I think the jury is out: I am worse off.

As to your question:  Yes,  B4 the procedure 2 mos. ago I was quite often at 150 ... but it didnt bother me. And I was never in the 200s except briefly after a long workout.  

Thanks for showing a Yank some sympathy, Bev!

S-A-T-U-R-D-A-Y N-I-G-H-T!

 

Hi Francesca

 

Thats a very enlightening video; for me anyway, though I don't have a pacemaker. Well not yet anyway.

My immediate quaestion is to ask why and when a pacemaker is deemed necessary as I gather there are many people like me with AF who rely on drugs and ablations to try and get things corrected.

I have not been offered a pacemaker, even after 6 years of AF and have tried all manner of drugs to control. Are they suitable only in certain cases or for particular individuals.

 

I am seeing my consultant next week but any enlightenment on this from anyone else could be useful.

 

Many thanks

 

Hi Mike

I'll give you my experience as an AFer, after my last ablation my EP said would
I like to look at another procedure as a last resort I saw a thoracic surgeon
who does a procedure called PVI Wolf Procedure and is done thro' keyhole
surgery, they ablate all the pulmonary veins and leave it up to the natural
pacemaker to do the job also keep you in hospital for a few days because
sometimes the natural pacemaker doesn't do the job and this is when they would
put a pacemaker in along with I think an AV Node also they cut off, my medical
knowledge is limited here, what they call the ear, a flap of skin which when you
go into AF causes the blood to pool thus leading to possible clotting,by cutting
this flap off there is then no need for warfarin as the blood will just
disperse.  That is what I've been told by my EP in Leeds but I'm sure EP's all
have their own take on whats best.  I have been told this is the very last
resort.  Its always good to know whats out there this is why I sought a second
opinion and am having ablation 3 at Barts in London not that they are any better
but good to try another experienced EP, when he does mine he is hopefully going
to put me into AF and then see where the triggers are coming from there is also
out there new info coming thro' which says it may be coming from the Superior
Vena Cava which is what this new EP has suggested to me and he will look at this
site when he's doing the procedure to see if it's coming from there.

Hope you can make some sense of this.

redhatrebel

--- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Mike C wrote:
>
> Hi Francesca
>
> Thats a very enlightening video; for me anyway, though I don't have a
pacemaker. Well not yet anyway.
> My immediate quaestion is to ask why and when a pacemaker is deemed necessary
as I gather there are many people like me with AF who rely on drugs and
ablations to try and get things corrected.
> I have not been offered a pacemaker, even after 6 years of AF and have tried
all manner of drugs to control. Are they suitable only in certain cases or for
particular individuals.
>
> I am seeing my consultant next week but any enlightenment on this from anyone
else could be useful.
>
> Many thanks
>

Dear Mike,

In general, pacemakers are not used for AF alone, they are of no real help. Their use comes when a person has a `pace and ablate' – i.e. the channel which conducts the electrical current from the top chambers to the bottom, and is also the pathway for the rogue electrical mis-firings, is ablated to an extent that it is broken (the AV node). Therefore, neither the rogue nor the `good and necessary' electrical impulses can travel done the channel. In short, a pacemaker should mean that the patient no longer FEELS the AF,  however, on the negative side, the heart will no longer have an impulse to make it beat anywhere near to the speed it needs to!!

So, a pacemaker is implanted first and then a few weeks later, when all are sure the pacemaker is working, the node is ablated. The main facts related to the treatment are:

-          Effective in about 90% of cases

-          Cannot be reversed – so is usually a `final option' (as Redhatrebel pointed out), the person will ALWAYS be pacemaker dependant and usually this is only considered as an option for older AF patients or for those where nothing else has worked and symptomatic AF is a continual issue.

-          It doesn't always stop the symptoms being felt, and then there is little a doctor can do, and the patient is pacemaker dependant.

-          AF still remains, but in the upper chambers, even if not felt, and so stroke risk etc still remains and antithrombotic medication would still be important.

-          For `younger' AF members who have struggled to find anything that works,  surgical ablation may be appropriate. For example, in Brighton there is Mr Hyde (Cardiothoracic surgeon), he uses a very similar technique to catheter ablation (catheters through the groin) but surgical is far more aggressive and approx 80% successful. Slightly higher risks and so more suited to those where other options have not worked or are not suitable. This is different to what EPs offer, and this style of surgical ablation is ONLY available in Brighton and Newcastle (Freemans). The Atrial Fibrillation Association is working on a fact sheet but it has yet to be published. Most doctors are not aware of this work.

I hope you find some of this information helpful. Good luck next week.

Regards,

Francesca

--- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Mike C wrote:
>
> Hi Francesca
>
> Thats a very enlightening video; for me anyway, though I don't have a pacemaker. Well not yet anyway.
> My immediate quaestion is to ask why and when a pacemaker is deemed necessary as I gather there are many people like me with AF who rely on drugs and ablations to try and get things corrected.
> I have not been offered a pacemaker, even after 6 years of AF and have tried all manner of drugs to control. Are they suitable only in certain cases or for particular individuals.
>
> I am seeing my consultant next week but any enlightenment on this from anyone else could be useful.
>
> Many thanks
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Francesc

To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 11:49

Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] Re: Pacemakers and the Human Heart

 

Dear Mike,

 

In general, pacemakers are not used for AF alone, they are of no real help. Their use comes when a person has a `pace and ablate' – i.e. the channel which conducts the electrical current from the top chambers to the bottom, and is also the pathway for the rogue electrical mis-firings, is ablated to an extent that it is broken (the AV node). Therefore, neither the rogue nor the `good and necessary' electrical impulses can travel done the channel. In short, a pacemaker should mean that the patient no longer FEELS the AF,  however, on the negative side, the heart will no longer have an impulse to make it beat anywhere near to the speed it needs to!!

So, a pacemaker is implanted first and then a few weeks later, when all are sure the pacemaker is working, the node is ablated. The main facts related to the treatment are:

-          Effective in about 90% of cases

-          Cannot be reversed – so is usually a `final option' (as Redhatrebel pointed out), the person will ALWAYS be pacemaker dependant and usually this is only considered as an option for older AF patients or for those where nothing else has worked and symptomatic AF is a continual issue.

-          It doesn't always stop the symptoms being felt, and then there is little a doctor can do, and the patient is pacemaker dependant.

-          AF still remains, but in the upper chambers, even if not felt, and so stroke risk etc still remains and antithrombotic medication would still be important.

-          For `younger' AF members who have struggled to find anything that works,  surgical ablation may be appropriate. For example, in Brighton there is Mr Hyde (Cardiothoracic surgeon), he uses a very similar technique to catheter ablation (catheters through the groin) but surgical is far more aggressive and approx 80% successful. Slightly higher risks and so more suited to those where other options have not worked or are not suitable. This is different to what EPs offer, and this style of surgical ablation is ONLY available in Brighton and Newcastle (Freemans). The Atrial Fibrillation Association is working on a fact sheet but it has yet to be published. Most doctors are not aware of this work.

 

I hope you find some of this information helpful. Good luck next week.

Regards,

Francesca

--- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Mike C wrote:
>
> Hi Francesca
>
> Thats a very enlightening video; for me anyway, though I don't have a pacemaker. Well not yet anyway.
> My immediate quaestion is to ask why and when a pacemaker is deemed necessary as I gather there are many people like me with AF who rely on drugs and ablations to try and get things corrected.
> I have not been offered a pacemaker, even after 6 years of AF and have tried all manner of drugs to control. Are they suitable only in certain cases or for particular individuals.
>
> I am seeing my consultant next week but any enlightenment on this from anyone else could be useful.
>
> Many thanks
>

Hi Mike

I am rated 0 on CHADS2 score but still take warfarin. This is primarily my
choice as I score 2 with the more recent CHA2DS2-VASc stroke risk model (Dr Lip,
University of Birmingham) 1 is for age (65) and 1 is for having mild coronary
artery disease. Whilst this Birmingham schema is slightly more complicated than
CHADS2, some experts feel that it has the potential to better predict who should
be on warfarin to decrease strokes.

Having had two AF ablations I'm erring on side of caution and sticking with the
warfarin I had prior to ablations although I am now in normal heart rhythm.
Anti-platelet drugs such as aspirin or clopidogrel are not an option for me for
two reasons: 1) I cannot tolerate aspirin and 2) both are inferior to warfarin
as an anti-coagulant in AF – this is because they don't thin blood, they work by
stopping platelets `clumping' together anywhere in vascular system to form
clots, whilst warfarin is more specific as it stops blood clot formation in
atria (where the clots that cause AF induced stroke are formed) by `thinning'
blood.

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Harry


--- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Mike C wrote:
>
> Hi Francesca and others who have endeavoured to enlighten me about pacemakers.
I'm mixing with a very informed set of people !
>
> Thanks for all your info on this. Clearly, I am not a suitable case. I have
had 2 ablations for "typical right-sided Atrial Flutter". Seems the first
ablation 'healed' itself. I am told I have paroxysmal A. Fib. and that this is
best controlled with medication; though an ablation procedure has not been ruled
out altogether. As it happens, I have had episodes of bradycardia and my
irregular rhythm does include long pauses sometimes. When I say long, its almost
like missing one beat so we are talking about a second or so. Is that a long
pause ?
>
> As I have said in previous postings, currently I mostly feel absolutely fine
and as fit as I expect to at my age. I try to keep physically active and only
feel the effects of my condition when I exercise hard (chest discomfort,
breathlessness and some dizziness). So, I reckon I cope pretty well but my never
ending concern is the stroke risk with this condition. I'm not on Warfarin and
wonder whether I should push for this.  Most people I mention my condition to
assume I am on Warfarin but I'm prescribed Asprin as my my CHADS 2 score is 1.
How about you guys ?
>
> Again, thanks for all your information and I hope you all make progress with
your condition and that the ablations are successful for those due to have them.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Mike C
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Francesc
>   To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 11:49
>   Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] Re: Pacemakers and the Human Heart
>
>
>
>
>   Dear Mike,
>
>
>
>   In general, pacemakers are not used for AF alone, they are of no real help.
Their use comes when a person has a `pace and ablate' - i.e. the channel which
conducts the electrical current from the top chambers to the bottom, and is also
the pathway for the rogue electrical mis-firings, is ablated to an extent that
it is broken (the AV node). Therefore, neither the rogue nor the `good and
necessary' electrical impulses can travel done the channel. In short, a
pacemaker should mean that the patient no longer FEELS the AF,  however, on the
negative side, the heart will no longer have an impulse to make it beat anywhere
near to the speed it needs to!!
>
>
>
>   So, a pacemaker is implanted first and then a few weeks later, when all are
sure the pacemaker is working, the node is ablated. The main facts related to
the treatment are:
>
>   -          Effective in about 90% of cases
>
>   -          Cannot be reversed - so is usually a `final option' (as
Redhatrebel pointed out), the person will ALWAYS be pacemaker dependant and
usually this is only considered as an option for older AF patients or for those
where nothing else has worked and symptomatic AF is a continual issue.
>
>   -          It doesn't always stop the symptoms being felt, and then there is
little a doctor can do, and the patient is pacemaker dependant.
>
>   -          AF still remains, but in the upper chambers, even if not felt,
and so stroke risk etc still remains and antithrombotic medication would still
be important.
>
>   -          For `younger' AF members who have struggled to find anything that
works,  surgical ablation may be appropriate. For example, in Brighton there is
Mr Hyde (Cardiothoracic surgeon), he uses a very similar technique to catheter
ablation (catheters through the groin) but surgical is far more aggressive and
approx 80% successful. Slightly higher risks and so more suited to those where
other options have not worked or are not suitable. This is different to what EPs
offer, and this style of surgical ablation is ONLY available in Brighton and
Newcastle (Freemans). The Atrial Fibrillation Association is working on a fact
sheet but it has yet to be published. Most doctors are not aware of this work.
>
>
>
>   I hope you find some of this information helpful. Good luck next week.
>
>   Regards,
>
>   Francesca
>
>
>   --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Mike C wrote:
>   >
>   > Hi Francesca
>   >
>   > Thats a very enlightening video; for me anyway, though I don't have a
pacemaker. Well not yet anyway.
>   > My immediate quaestion is to ask why and when a pacemaker is deemed
necessary as I gather there are many people like me with AF who rely on drugs
and ablations to try and get things corrected.
>   > I have not been offered a pacemaker, even after 6 years of AF and have
tried all manner of drugs to control. Are they suitable only in certain cases or
for particular individuals.
>   >
>   > I am seeing my consultant next week but any enlightenment on this from
anyone else could be useful.
>   >
>   > Many thanks
>   >
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Glori

To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 00:16

Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] Re: Pacemakers and the Human Heart

 

Hi Mike

You could be describing my case history!!

My missed beat was described as ectopic

I do have brachycardia sometimes

My flutter was fixed after 3 ablations

My A Fib is paroxysmal

I can’t tolerate Asprin so I am now on Warfarin for life

A fib episodes last 6/8 hours and them flip back to normal

I have been offered drugs to control arrhythmias but have so far declined because most of the time I don’t feel too bad and they are not pushing me because I am reasonably safe on warfarin and because of my extreme sensitivity to beta blockers and other drugs

I don’t know what CHADS score means.  Could you tell me please?

Gloria

---

From: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com [mailto:heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 07 January 2011 20:07
To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] Re: Pacemakers and the Human Heart

 

Hi Francesca and others who have endeavoured to enlighten me about pacemakers. I'm mixing with a very informed set of people !

Thanks for all your info on this. Clearly, I am not a suitable case. I have had 2 ablations for "typical right-sided Atrial Flutter". Seems the first ablation 'healed' itself. I am told I have paroxysmal A. Fib. and that this is best controlled with medication; though an ablation procedure has not been ruled out altogether. As it happens, I have had episodes of bradycardia and my irregular rhythm does include long pauses sometimes. When I say long, its almost like missing one beat so we are talking about a second or so. Is that a long pause ?

As I have said in previous postings, currently I mostly feel absolutely fine and as fit as I expect to at my age. I try to keep physically active and only feel the effects of my condition when I exercise hard (chest discomfort, breathlessness and some dizziness). So, I reckon I cope pretty well but my never ending concern is the stroke risk with this condition. I'm not on Warfarin and wonder whether I should push for this.  Most people I mention my condition to assume I am on Warfarin but I'm prescribed Asprin as my my CHADS 2 score is 1. How about you guys ?

Again, thanks for all your information and I hope you all make progress with your condition and that the ablations are successful for those due to have them.

Best wishes

Mike C  

----- Original Message -----

From: Francesc

To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 11:49

Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] Re: Pacemakers and the Human Heart

 

Dear Mike,

In general, pacemakers are not used for AF alone, they are of no real help. Their use comes when a person has a `pace and ablate' – i.e. the channel which conducts the electrical current from the top chambers to the bottom, and is also the pathway for the rogue electrical mis-firings, is ablated to an extent that it is broken (the AV node). Therefore, neither the rogue nor the `good and necessary' electrical impulses can travel done the channel. In short, a pacemaker should mean that the patient no longer FEELS the AF,  however, on the negative side, the heart will no longer have an impulse to make it beat anywhere near to the speed it needs to!!

So, a pacemaker is implanted first and then a few weeks later, when all are sure the pacemaker is working, the node is ablated. The main facts related to the treatment are:

-          Effective in about 90% of cases

-          Cannot be reversed – so is usually a `final option' (as Redhatrebel pointed out), the person will ALWAYS be pacemaker dependant and usually this is only considered as an option for older AF patients or for those where nothing else has worked and symptomatic AF is a continual issue.

-          It doesn't always stop the symptoms being felt, and then there is little a doctor can do, and the patient is pacemaker dependant.

-          AF still remains, but in the upper chambers, even if not felt, and so stroke risk etc still remains and antithrombotic medication would still be important.

-          For `younger' AF members who have struggled to find anything that works,  surgical ablation may be appropriate. For example, in Brighton there is Mr Hyde (Cardiothoracic surgeon), he uses a very similar technique to catheter ablation (catheters through the groin) but surgical is far more aggressive and approx 80% successful. Slightly higher risks and so more suited to those where other options have not worked or are not suitable. This is different to what EPs offer, and this style of surgical ablation is ONLY available in Brighton and Newcastle (Freemans). The Atrial Fibrillation Association is working on a fact sheet but it has yet to be published. Most doctors are not aware of this work.

I hope you find some of this information helpful. Good luck next week.

Regards,

Francesca

--- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Mike C wrote:
>
> Hi Francesca
>
> Thats a very enlightening video; for me anyway, though I don't have a pacemaker. Well not yet anyway.
> My immediate quaestion is to ask why and when a pacemaker is deemed necessary as I gather there are many people like me with AF who rely on drugs and ablations to try and get things corrected.
> I have not been offered a pacemaker, even after 6 years of AF and have tried all manner of drugs to control. Are they suitable only in certain cases or for particular individuals.
>
> I am seeing my consultant next week but any enlightenment on this from anyone else could be useful.
>
> Many thanks
>

Dear Mike

You may wish to take a look at some of the Information sheets that AFA produce:
http://atrialfibrillation.org.uk/patient-information/Available%20Information%20S\
heets.html

There is an information sheet specifically about Warfarin.

I hope this is helpful to you.

Kind regards
Francesca


--- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Mike C wrote:
>
> Hi Francesca and others who have endeavoured to enlighten me about pacemakers.
I'm mixing with a very informed set of people !
>
> Thanks for all your info on this. Clearly, I am not a suitable case. I have
had 2 ablations for "typical right-sided Atrial Flutter". Seems the first
ablation 'healed' itself. I am told I have paroxysmal A. Fib. and that this is
best controlled with medication; though an ablation procedure has not been ruled
out altogether. As it happens, I have had episodes of bradycardia and my
irregular rhythm does include long pauses sometimes. When I say long, its almost
like missing one beat so we are talking about a second or so. Is that a long
pause ?
>
> As I have said in previous postings, currently I mostly feel absolutely fine
and as fit as I expect to at my age. I try to keep physically active and only
feel the effects of my condition when I exercise hard (chest discomfort,
breathlessness and some dizziness). So, I reckon I cope pretty well but my never
ending concern is the stroke risk with this condition. I'm not on Warfarin and
wonder whether I should push for this.  Most people I mention my condition to
assume I am on Warfarin but I'm prescribed Asprin as my my CHADS 2 score is 1.
How about you guys ?
>
> Again, thanks for all your information and I hope you all make progress with
your condition and that the ablations are successful for those due to have them.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Mike C
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Francesc
>   To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 11:49
>   Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] Re: Pacemakers and the Human Heart
>
>
>
>
>   Dear Mike,
>
>
>
>   In general, pacemakers are not used for AF alone, they are of no real help.
Their use comes when a person has a `pace and ablate' - i.e. the channel which
conducts the electrical current from the top chambers to the bottom, and is also
the pathway for the rogue electrical mis-firings, is ablated to an extent that
it is broken (the AV node). Therefore, neither the rogue nor the `good and
necessary' electrical impulses can travel done the channel. In short, a
pacemaker should mean that the patient no longer FEELS the AF,  however, on the
negative side, the heart will no longer have an impulse to make it beat anywhere
near to the speed it needs to!!
>
>
>
>   So, a pacemaker is implanted first and then a few weeks later, when all are
sure the pacemaker is working, the node is ablated. The main facts related to
the treatment are:
>
>   -          Effective in about 90% of cases
>
>   -          Cannot be reversed - so is usually a `final option' (as
Redhatrebel pointed out), the person will ALWAYS be pacemaker dependant and
usually this is only considered as an option for older AF patients or for those
where nothing else has worked and symptomatic AF is a continual issue.
>
>   -          It doesn't always stop the symptoms being felt, and then there is
little a doctor can do, and the patient is pacemaker dependant.
>
>   -          AF still remains, but in the upper chambers, even if not felt,
and so stroke risk etc still remains and antithrombotic medication would still
be important.
>
>   -          For `younger' AF members who have struggled to find anything that
works,  surgical ablation may be appropriate. For example, in Brighton there is
Mr Hyde (Cardiothoracic surgeon), he uses a very similar technique to catheter
ablation (catheters through the groin) but surgical is far more aggressive and
approx 80% successful. Slightly higher risks and so more suited to those where
other options have not worked or are not suitable. This is different to what EPs
offer, and this style of surgical ablation is ONLY available in Brighton and
Newcastle (Freemans). The Atrial Fibrillation Association is working on a fact
sheet but it has yet to be published. Most doctors are not aware of this work.
>
>
>
>   I hope you find some of this information helpful. Good luck next week.
>
>   Regards,
>
>   Francesca
>
>
>   --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Mike C wrote:
>   >
>   > Hi Francesca
>   >
>   > Thats a very enlightening video; for me anyway, though I don't have a
pacemaker. Well not yet anyway.
>   > My immediate quaestion is to ask why and when a pacemaker is deemed
necessary as I gather there are many people like me with AF who rely on drugs
and ablations to try and get things corrected.
>   > I have not been offered a pacemaker, even after 6 years of AF and have
tried all manner of drugs to control. Are they suitable only in certain cases or
for particular individuals.
>   >
>   > I am seeing my consultant next week but any enlightenment on this from
anyone else could be useful.
>   >
>   > Many thanks
>   >
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Harr

To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 12:11

Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] Re: Pacemakers and the Human Heart

 

Hi Mike

I am rated 0 on CHADS2 score but still take warfarin. This is primarily my choice as I score 2 with the more recent CHA2DS2-VASc stroke risk model (Dr Lip, University of Birmingham) 1 is for age (65) and 1 is for having mild coronary artery disease. Whilst this Birmingham schema is slightly more complicated than CHADS2, some experts feel that it has the potential to better predict who should be on warfarin to decrease strokes.

Having had two AF ablations I'm erring on side of caution and sticking with the warfarin I had prior to ablations although I am now in normal heart rhythm. Anti-platelet drugs such as aspirin or clopidogrel are not an option for me for two reasons: 1) I cannot tolerate aspirin and 2) both are inferior to warfarin as an anti-coagulant in AF – this is because they don't thin blood, they work by stopping platelets `clumping' together anywhere in vascular system to form clots, whilst warfarin is more specific as it stops blood clot formation in atria (where the clots that cause AF induced stroke are formed) by `thinning' blood.

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Harry

--- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Mike C wrote:
>
> Hi Francesca and others who have endeavoured to enlighten me about pacemakers. I'm mixing with a very informed set of people !
>
> Thanks for all your info on this. Clearly, I am not a suitable case. I have had 2 ablations for "typical right-sided Atrial Flutter". Seems the first ablation 'healed' itself. I am told I have paroxysmal A. Fib. and that this is best controlled with medication; though an ablation procedure has not been ruled out altogether. As it happens, I have had episodes of bradycardia and my irregular rhythm does include long pauses sometimes. When I say long, its almost like missing one beat so we are talking about a second or so. Is that a long pause ?
>
> As I have said in previous postings, currently I mostly feel absolutely fine and as fit as I expect to at my age. I try to keep physically active and only feel the effects of my condition when I exercise hard (chest discomfort, breathlessness and some dizziness). So, I reckon I cope pretty well but my never ending concern is the stroke risk with this condition. I'm not on Warfarin and wonder whether I should push for this. Most people I mention my condition to assume I am on Warfarin but I'm prescribed Asprin as my my CHADS 2 score is 1. How about you guys ?
>
> Again, thanks for all your information and I hope you all make progress with your condition and that the ablations are successful for those due to have them.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Mike C
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Francesc
> To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 11:49
> Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] Re: Pacemakers and the Human Heart
>
>
>
>
> Dear Mike,
>
>
>
> In general, pacemakers are not used for AF alone, they are of no real help. Their use comes when a person has a `pace and ablate' - i.e. the channel which conducts the electrical current from the top chambers to the bottom, and is also the pathway for the rogue electrical mis-firings, is ablated to an extent that it is broken (the AV node). Therefore, neither the rogue nor the `good and necessary' electrical impulses can travel done the channel. In short, a pacemaker should mean that the patient no longer FEELS the AF, however, on the negative side, the heart will no longer have an impulse to make it beat anywhere near to the speed it needs to!!
>
>
>
> So, a pacemaker is implanted first and then a few weeks later, when all are sure the pacemaker is working, the node is ablated. The main facts related to the treatment are:
>
> - Effective in about 90% of cases
>
> - Cannot be reversed - so is usually a `final option' (as Redhatrebel pointed out), the person will ALWAYS be pacemaker dependant and usually this is only considered as an option for older AF patients or for those where nothing else has worked and symptomatic AF is a continual issue.
>
> - It doesn't always stop the symptoms being felt, and then there is little a doctor can do, and the patient is pacemaker dependant.
>
> - AF still remains, but in the upper chambers, even if not felt, and so stroke risk etc still remains and antithrombotic medication would still be important.
>
> - For `younger' AF members who have struggled to find anything that works, surgical ablation may be appropriate. For example, in Brighton there is Mr Hyde (Cardiothoracic surgeon), he uses a very similar technique to catheter ablation (catheters through the groin) but surgical is far more aggressive and approx 80% successful. Slightly higher risks and so more suited to those where other options have not worked or are not suitable. This is different to what EPs offer, and this style of surgical ablation is ONLY available in Brighton and Newcastle (Freemans). The Atrial Fibrillation Association is working on a fact sheet but it has yet to be published. Most doctors are not aware of this work.
>
>
>
> I hope you find some of this information helpful. Good luck next week.
>
> Regards,
>
> Francesca
>
>
> --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Mike C wrote:
> >
> > Hi Francesca
> >
> > Thats a very enlightening video; for me anyway, though I don't have a pacemaker. Well not yet anyway.
> > My immediate quaestion is to ask why and when a pacemaker is deemed necessary as I gather there are many people like me with AF who rely on drugs and ablations to try and get things corrected.
> > I have not been offered a pacemaker, even after 6 years of AF and have tried all manner of drugs to control. Are they suitable only in certain cases or for particular individuals.
> >
> > I am seeing my consultant next week but any enlightenment on this from anyone else could be useful.
> >
> > Many thanks
> >
>

Following on from Harry's coments re CHA2DS2-VASc I came across this discussion
document which involves Dr Lip.
It is very enlightening particularly with regard to the new drug Dabigatran
which appears more efficacious than asprin and warfarin. Have a look.
http://www.theheart.org/documents/sitestructure/en/content/programs/1019331/tran\
script.pdf

Regards

Mike C

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Harr
   To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 12:11
   Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] Re: Pacemakers and the Human Heart



   Hi Mike

   I am rated 0 on CHADS2 score but still take warfarin. This is primarily my
choice as I score 2 with the more recent CHA2DS2-VASc stroke risk model (Dr Lip,
University of Birmingham) 1 is for age (65) and 1 is for having mild coronary
artery disease. Whilst this Birmingham schema is slightly more complicated than
CHADS2, some experts feel that it has the potential to better predict who should
be on warfarin to decrease strokes.

   Having had two AF ablations I'm erring on side of caution and sticking with
the warfarin I had prior to ablations although I am now in normal heart rhythm.
Anti-platelet drugs such as aspirin or clopidogrel are not an option for me for
two reasons: 1) I cannot tolerate aspirin and 2) both are inferior to warfarin
as an anti-coagulant in AF - this is because they don't thin blood, they work by
stopping platelets `clumping' together anywhere in vascular system to form
clots, whilst warfarin is more specific as it stops blood clot formation in
atria (where the clots that cause AF induced stroke are formed) by `thinning'
blood.

   Hope this helps.

   Cheers, Harry

   --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Mike C wrote:
   >
   > Hi Francesca and others who have endeavoured to enlighten me about
pacemakers. I'm mixing with a very informed set of people !
   >
   > Thanks for all your info on this. Clearly, I am not a suitable case. I have
had 2 ablations for "typical right-sided Atrial Flutter". Seems the first
ablation 'healed' itself. I am told I have paroxysmal A. Fib. and that this is
best controlled with medication; though an ablation procedure has not been ruled
out altogether. As it happens, I have had episodes of bradycardia and my
irregular rhythm does include long pauses sometimes. When I say long, its almost
like missing one beat so we are talking about a second or so. Is that a long
pause ?
   >
   > As I have said in previous postings, currently I mostly feel absolutely fine
and as fit as I expect to at my age. I try to keep physically active and only
feel the effects of my condition when I exercise hard (chest discomfort,
breathlessness and some dizziness). So, I reckon I cope pretty well but my never
ending concern is the stroke risk with this condition. I'm not on Warfarin and
wonder whether I should push for this. Most people I mention my condition to
assume I am on Warfarin but I'm prescribed Asprin as my my CHADS 2 score is 1.
How about you guys ?
   >
   > Again, thanks for all your information and I hope you all make progress with
your condition and that the ablations are successful for those due to have them.
   >
   > Best wishes
   >
   > Mike C
   >
   >
   > ----- Original Message -----
   > From: Francesc
   > To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
   > Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 11:49
   > Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] Re: Pacemakers and the Human Heart
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > Dear Mike,
   >
   >
   >
   > In general, pacemakers are not used for AF alone, they are of no real help.
Their use comes when a person has a `pace and ablate' - i.e. the channel which
conducts the electrical current from the top chambers to the bottom, and is also
the pathway for the rogue electrical mis-firings, is ablated to an extent that
it is broken (the AV node). Therefore, neither the rogue nor the `good and
necessary' electrical impulses can travel done the channel. In short, a
pacemaker should mean that the patient no longer FEELS the AF, however, on the
negative side, the heart will no longer have an impulse to make it beat anywhere
near to the speed it needs to!!
   >
   >
   >
   > So, a pacemaker is implanted first and then a few weeks later, when all are
sure the pacemaker is working, the node is ablated. The main facts related to
the treatment are:
   >
   > - Effective in about 90% of cases
   >
   > - Cannot be reversed - so is usually a `final option' (as Redhatrebel
pointed out), the person will ALWAYS be pacemaker dependant and usually this is
only considered as an option for older AF patients or for those where nothing
else has worked and symptomatic AF is a continual issue.
   >
   > - It doesn't always stop the symptoms being felt, and then there is little a
doctor can do, and the patient is pacemaker dependant.
   >
   > - AF still remains, but in the upper chambers, even if not felt, and so
stroke risk etc still remains and antithrombotic medication would still be
important.
   >
   > - For `younger' AF members who have struggled to find anything that works,
surgical ablation may be appropriate. For example, in Brighton there is Mr Hyde
(Cardiothoracic surgeon), he uses a very similar technique to catheter ablation
(catheters through the groin) but surgical is far more aggressive and approx 80%
successful. Slightly higher risks and so more suited to those where other
options have not worked or are not suitable. This is different to what EPs
offer, and this style of surgical ablation is ONLY available in Brighton and
Newcastle (Freemans). The Atrial Fibrillation Association is working on a fact
sheet but it has yet to be published. Most doctors are not aware of this work.
   >
   >
   >
   > I hope you find some of this information helpful. Good luck next week.
   >
   > Regards,
   >
   > Francesca
   >
   >
   > --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Mike C wrote:
   > >
   > > Hi Francesca
   > >
   > > Thats a very enlightening video; for me anyway, though I don't have a
pacemaker. Well not yet anyway.
   > > My immediate quaestion is to ask why and when a pacemaker is deemed
necessary as I gather there are many people like me with AF who rely on drugs
and ablations to try and get things corrected.
   > > I have not been offered a pacemaker, even after 6 years of AF and have
tried all manner of drugs to control. Are they suitable only in certain cases or
for particular individuals.
   > >
   > > I am seeing my consultant next week but any enlightenment on this from
anyone else could be useful.
   > >
   > > Many thanks
   > >
   >

Hi Mike

Glad it was useful. At three-month check-up after last ablation my consultant
said I didn't have to continue to take warfarin and could revert to clopidogrel
as I was in normal rhythm and low risk on my CHADS2 score. I disagreed and felt
it prudent to continue with warfarin as CHA2DS2-VASc score indicated I should
consider warfarin as best option - his AF centre hasn't yet recognised
CHA2DS2-VASc as a replacement for CHADS2 in all cases. He agreed to continue
warfarin on basis that as I was about to discontinue amiodarone as heart rhythm
support after ablation I should review decision in six months if I was still in
normal rhythm. The point being as amiodarone effect tapers off I might revert to
AF and we will only know once amiodarone effect has washed out of my system (can
take up to six months).

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Harry

--- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Mike C wrote:
>
> Thanks for that Harry and also to Francesca for the AFA info. I'll have a look
at that.
>
> Harry your comments are very useful for me. I see my cardio next Tuesday so
will certainly speak to him about warfarin. He did put me on warfarin prior to
my last ablation (which was done together with a TOE) in May 2010 to prevent any
blood clots and took me off a short time after. Also, just 1 month before the
ablation I had an angiogram which showed all tubes were clear. I was on warfarin
for about 4 months with no problems. I tolerate asprin fine and have taken this
for a long time but it worries me a little as I have had a duodenal ulcer,
though this was 20 + years ago. I know there is some concern with stomach
bleeds.
>
> Best wishes to all
>
> Mike C
>
>
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Harr
>   To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 12:11
>   Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] Re: Pacemakers and the Human Heart
>
>
>
>   Hi Mike
>
>   I am rated 0 on CHADS2 score but still take warfarin. This is primarily my
choice as I score 2 with the more recent CHA2DS2-VASc stroke risk model (Dr Lip,
University of Birmingham) 1 is for age (65) and 1 is for having mild coronary
artery disease. Whilst this Birmingham schema is slightly more complicated than
CHADS2, some experts feel that it has the potential to better predict who should
be on warfarin to decrease strokes.
>
>   Having had two AF ablations I'm erring on side of caution and sticking with
the warfarin I had prior to ablations although I am now in normal heart rhythm.
Anti-platelet drugs such as aspirin or clopidogrel are not an option for me for
two reasons: 1) I cannot tolerate aspirin and 2) both are inferior to warfarin
as an anti-coagulant in AF - this is because they don't thin blood, they work by
stopping platelets `clumping' together anywhere in vascular system to form
clots, whilst warfarin is more specific as it stops blood clot formation in
atria (where the clots that cause AF induced stroke are formed) by `thinning'
blood.
>
>   Hope this helps.
>
>   Cheers, Harry
>
>   --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Mike C wrote:
>   >
>   > Hi Francesca and others who have endeavoured to enlighten me about
pacemakers. I'm mixing with a very informed set of people !
>   >
>   > Thanks for all your info on this. Clearly, I am not a suitable case. I
have had 2 ablations for "typical right-sided Atrial Flutter". Seems the first
ablation 'healed' itself. I am told I have paroxysmal A. Fib. and that this is
best controlled with medication; though an ablation procedure has not been ruled
out altogether. As it happens, I have had episodes of bradycardia and my
irregular rhythm does include long pauses sometimes. When I say long, its almost
like missing one beat so we are talking about a second or so. Is that a long
pause ?
>   >
>   > As I have said in previous postings, currently I mostly feel absolutely
fine and as fit as I expect to at my age. I try to keep physically active and
only feel the effects of my condition when I exercise hard (chest discomfort,
breathlessness and some dizziness). So, I reckon I cope pretty well but my never
ending concern is the stroke risk with this condition. I'm not on Warfarin and
wonder whether I should push for this. Most people I mention my condition to
assume I am on Warfarin but I'm prescribed Asprin as my my CHADS 2 score is 1.
How about you guys ?
>   >
>   > Again, thanks for all your information and I hope you all make progress
with your condition and that the ablations are successful for those due to have
them.
>   >
>   > Best wishes
>   >
>   > Mike C
>   >
>   >
>   > ----- Original Message -----
>   > From: Francesc
>   > To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com
>   > Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 11:49
>   > Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] Re: Pacemakers and the Human Heart
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > Dear Mike,
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > In general, pacemakers are not used for AF alone, they are of no real
help. Their use comes when a person has a `pace and ablate' - i.e. the channel
which conducts the electrical current from the top chambers to the bottom, and
is also the pathway for the rogue electrical mis-firings, is ablated to an
extent that it is broken (the AV node). Therefore, neither the rogue nor the
`good and necessary' electrical impulses can travel done the channel. In short,
a pacemaker should mean that the patient no longer FEELS the AF, however, on the
negative side, the heart will no longer have an impulse to make it beat anywhere
near to the speed it needs to!!
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > So, a pacemaker is implanted first and then a few weeks later, when all
are sure the pacemaker is working, the node is ablated. The main facts related
to the treatment are:
>   >
>   > - Effective in about 90% of cases
>   >
>   > - Cannot be reversed - so is usually a `final option' (as Redhatrebel
pointed out), the person will ALWAYS be pacemaker dependant and usually this is
only considered as an option for older AF patients or for those where nothing
else has worked and symptomatic AF is a continual issue.
>   >
>   > - It doesn't always stop the symptoms being felt, and then there is little
a doctor can do, and the patient is pacemaker dependant.
>   >
>   > - AF still remains, but in the upper chambers, even if not felt, and so
stroke risk etc still remains and antithrombotic medication would still be
important.
>   >
>   > - For `younger' AF members who have struggled to find anything that works,
surgical ablation may be appropriate. For example, in Brighton there is Mr Hyde
(Cardiothoracic surgeon), he uses a very similar technique to catheter ablation
(catheters through the groin) but surgical is far more aggressive and approx 80%
successful. Slightly higher risks and so more suited to those where other
options have not worked or are not suitable. This is different to what EPs
offer, and this style of surgical ablation is ONLY available in Brighton and
Newcastle (Freemans). The Atrial Fibrillation Association is working on a fact
sheet but it has yet to be published. Most doctors are not aware of this work.
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > I hope you find some of this information helpful. Good luck next week.
>   >
>   > Regards,
>   >
>   > Francesca
>   >
>   >
>   > --- In heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com, Mike C wrote:
>   > >
>   > > Hi Francesca
>   > >
>   > > Thats a very enlightening video; for me anyway, though I don't have a
pacemaker. Well not yet anyway.
>   > > My immediate quaestion is to ask why and when a pacemaker is deemed
necessary as I gather there are many people like me with AF who rely on drugs
and ablations to try and get things corrected.
>   > > I have not been offered a pacemaker, even after 6 years of AF and have
tried all manner of drugs to control. Are they suitable only in certain cases or
for particular individuals.
>   > >
>   > > I am seeing my consultant next week but any enlightenment on this from
anyone else could be useful.
>   > >
>   > > Many thanks
>   > >
>   >
>

"Commenting on the results of the study for heartwire, Dr Hugh Calkins (Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD), who was not affiliated with the study, said the gradual attrition rate in arrhythmia-free survival—in this trial there was an 8.9% annual recurrence rate following the last ablation attempt—confirms results observed in other studies.

"The bottom line is that everybody's results show the same thing, that atrial fibrillation is a complex arrhythmia, and that the longer you follow patients, the more recurrences they have," said Calkins. He added that those arguing ablation "cures" atrial fibrillation have been disproven. "Catheter ablation treats atrial fibrillation, it doesn't cure atrial fibrillation, at least in many patients," added Calkins. "And yes, you have to continue to follow patients, and this has important implications in terms of anticoagulation."[...]

To heartwire, Calkins called these long-term results "sobering," considering the investigators performing the ablation procedures are part of the group who pioneered the therapy. That said, these results are in line with other reports, he noted, and the procedure has improved since 2001-2002. These results are likely the worst-case outcomes, and better equipment, including the use of irrigated catheters and the increased use of the circumferential pulmonary vein isolation technique, would have a beneficial effect on the long-term outcomes of procedures performed in later years, he added.

Overall, Calkins said the findings should not be interpreted negatively considering that other issues need to be judged when assessing the merits of atrial fibrillation.

"It isn't that catheter ablation doesn't work," he said. "This paper didn't look at atrial-fibrillation burden, which is a quality-of-life issue. You might have a patient that was in afib all the time, and you do an ablation, and they have a recurrence three years down the road, but that patient is still as happy as a clam, and their quality of life is better. Looking at recurrence as a yes-or-no question doesn't provide a full view of the benefit."

New tech may help young basketball player

----- Original Message -----

From: Ing

To: heartrhythmcharity@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 17:19

Subject: [heartrhythmcharity] Add to the study on AF ablations

 

Hi there,

I just wanted to add something to the study I posted yesterday. Hugh Calkins, another well-known EP, has been asked what he thinks about this study (he was not part of the team), and he pointed out some important aspects. Below are some passages from an article published at http://www.theheart.org/article/1168671.do.

Best wishes
Inga

"Commenting on the results of the study for heartwire, Dr Hugh Calkins (Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD), who was not affiliated with the study, said the gradual attrition rate in arrhythmia-free survival—in this trial there was an 8.9% annual recurrence rate following the last ablation attempt—confirms results observed in other studies.

"The bottom line is that everybody's results show the same thing, that atrial fibrillation is a complex arrhythmia, and that the longer you follow patients, the more recurrences they have," said Calkins. He added that those arguing ablation "cures" atrial fibrillation have been disproven. "Catheter ablation treats atrial fibrillation, it doesn't cure atrial fibrillation, at least in many patients," added Calkins. "And yes, you have to continue to follow patients, and this has important implications in terms of anticoagulation."[...]

To heartwire, Calkins called these long-term results "sobering," considering the investigators performing the ablation procedures are part of the group who pioneered the therapy. That said, these results are in line with other reports, he noted, and the procedure has improved since 2001-2002. These results are likely the worst-case outcomes, and better equipment, including the use of irrigated catheters and the increased use of the circumferential pulmonary vein isolation technique, would have a beneficial effect on the long-term outcomes of procedures performed in later years, he added.

Overall, Calkins said the findings should not be interpreted negatively considering that other issues need to be judged when assessing the merits of atrial fibrillation.

"It isn't that catheter ablation doesn't work," he said. "This paper didn't look at atrial-fibrillation burden, which is a quality-of-life issue. You might have a patient that was in afib all the time, and you do an ablation, and they have a recurrence three years down the road, but that patient is still as happy as a clam, and their quality of life is better. Looking at recurrence as a yes-or-no question doesn't provide a full view of the benefit."

I've been reading with interest all the posts and am grateful for the comments
and responses and also for the links to read up on various reports that others
are sharing - gathering information is so useful particularly when dealing with
the Cardios can be tricky in pinning THEM down for info!!

Today I have had my appt with the Neurologist following re-referral back to him
from the Opthamologist who in turn was following ME up post 2nd-ablation end
Sept '10 in which I was told I had had a "mini stroke" or TIA (lodged, the Neuro
Junior Dr said, possibly at the back of my eye and "temporary" in its effects).
At the time I had a CT and MRI scan and am currently seeing the eye clinic at
Hospital with exercises to improve the muscles in bringing image back to one
from "double vision" - this HAS improved significantly which I'm pleased about. 
(if I'm not improved end Jan anymore, then I'm to go back to Ophtho-Dr for
further opinion/suggestion as apparently the exercises ought to "work" and then
I needn't "do" them - currently it only "works" if I do them constantly.  if
that makes sense?)

However.  Today in my appointment the Neurologist announces was NOT a "mini
stroke"/TIA but in fact a FULL STROKE.  Brought about, he said, wholly BY the
A-fib and possibly due to something done in the ablation procedure but
essentially it was the Afib that is the cause and not what the EP was doing - I
think, anyway?!
He showed me on the MRI scan a picture of my brain and the "abnormality" which
looks like a cotton wool ball type of "blob" that even I could identify before
he'd actually touched the screen when he offered to show it to me.
It is on the right side as look at it (my left?) dead centre and in the top 1/3
inside my head and is as clear as anything to see (SO much for the EP having
some difficulty in accepting I'd had a problem I mean agreeing with the
Neuro-Junior Dr - cough!?).

I am, he tells me, to remain now on Warfarin "for life".  I have to have a
further MRI scan and a follow up appt to see him in 3/12 and he wants me back on
the dreaded meds!
Prior to Xmas I saw my Cardio with results of my 72hr tape which shows my
resting heart rate avge at 90-150bpm and SOME episodes of AFib and LOTS of
"extra beats" - some 7000 (previous 24hr tape reported 8000).
Due to side effects from the 5mg Bisoprolol I have declined the meds and a
suggestion made for Anatolol which I am undecided about whether to take up or
not.
Cardio says I'm "safe" as I am, Neuro says differently.  BOTH say "warfarin =
life" however so I'm stuck with that one. unfortunately. (don't like idea of
"meds for life" - no one does?)

In addition, my headaches are confirmed as migraine, the Neuro says its classic
for Afib and Migraine to go together and I'm wondering if anyone else has
developed migraine (or maybe the other way round, migraine sufferers gone on to
get Afib?).

I seem to have a "fast" heartrate and tons of ectopics and a lot of continuing
Afib and am wondering whether this is something I ought to get used to or
whether I ought to consider giving meds another go?

I am not personally now looking to achieve a "cure" from Afib as I feel that I
have a "funny heartbeat" and will always have one, instead I am looking to
manage myself better and cope with the good days and bad days - my general
fast/ecopticy heartbeat is actually worse on an everyday scale vs. the horrid
Afib which can leave me feeling quite tired and drained.
since having 2nd ablation (and subsequently coming off meds) I have had frequent
chest discomfort particularly upon exertion and considerable SOB too.  I had
hoped to feel improved, but I don't.
I am told by both the EP and the Neuro that I cannot have any more ablations and
some mention was made about "connecting the wires" which didn't make sense - I
need to ask about that IF I remember in 3/12!! which the Neuro picked up from
Cardio's notes.

Its too soon to say what I think about the stroke and the warfarin thing, but I
am very glad that the Dr acknowledged the complications that I experience are
DUE to the stroke and as such its been answered and I feel MUCH better being
told this.  I've waited a LONG time since Sept 30th to today for someone to TELL
me I'm not MAD and that I DO have a reason for my continued complications.

Thanks for listening.
Sue x