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Singing Fish for Audio/Video on Happiness   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #82 of 157 |
Re: [happinessgroup] Singing Fish for Audio/Video on Happiness


Lionel,
 
I appreciate the review, however it would be helpful if you could cite some examples you disagree with.
 
You included Dr. Nozik's work as cited below to properly represent happiness, however these conclusions are contrary to the most authoritative scientific understanding of happiness we have.  Here are a few facts to hopefully clarify the matter.
 
1. The accepted definition of happiness from a psychology perspective is that it is comprised of positive and negative affect components, and a satisfaction component.  This has been the standard understanding of happiness for over thirty years.
 
2.  Happiness is called subjective-wellbeing because it relies on the self-reports of respondents.  However, the "objectivity" of their responses is well collaborated by peer and family evaluations, and by extensive psychological batteries.  According to Fordyce, these happiness measures are actually more reliable than most other kinds of psychological measures (see his on-line book) .   Most recently, Richard Davidson has been pioneering a way to use imaging like MRI to measure pleasure in subjects.  Although not yet sufficiently tested to prove as reliable as the other methods, this may ultimately represent an objective measurement.
 
3.  Dr. Fordyce created the first "proven" system for teaching happiness in 1977, and successfully replicated his results in 1980  (see episodes 2 and 11 at www.thehappinessshow.com for details). 
 
Lastly, Dr. Nozik's referring to the science of happiness as oxymoronic is unfair and misguided.  While there is certainly much we need to learn regarding how to become happier, we have a fairly clear understanding from over 3,000 studies spanning 40 years regarding what tends to make people happy, and what does not.
 
Happily,
George
 
Excerpt of what you cite from Dr. Nozik;
 
Also, happiness may well be second only to spirituality in the difficulties it presents for scientific study.  Some of these stumbling blocks include:

·        There is no agreed upon definition for happiness.

·        There is no objective way for measuring happiness.

·        There is no proven system for teaching happiness

 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [happinessgroup] Singing Fish for Audio/Video on Happiness

Dear Mal,
 
Yes, I read the book Happiness by Daniel Nettles. I rarely say what I am about to say but here goes. It was a book that was very well written as far as the words. The author completely missed the whole meaning of happiness. Nettles used science and he arrived at the most absurd conclusions to happiness. He does not know anything about happiness and some of his scientific information is wrong. In some cases he does not even understand what authors have written and has miss-quoted them as well.
 
I have included an article about this very subject from Dr. Bob Nozik below.
 
Sharing Love, Peace and Happiness with you,
Lionel Ketchian
www.happinessclub.com
www.thehappinessshow.com
http://happinessclub.blogspot.com

            THE NEW OXYMORON: HAPPINESS SCIENCE

                                                                   By Bob Nozik, MD

 

          British psychologist Daniel Nettle’s new book, HAPPINESS: The Science Behind Your Smile, really put a burr under my saddle.  Not because it isn’t well written; it is.  Not because it hasn’t enough scientific data; it has.  Not that it is lacking in humor or bounce; it isn’t.  No, I realized after reading it that my objection targets the domain of happiness science itself.  Let me be clear, I am a science lover having spent more than 35 joyfully productive years as a medical scientist prior to embarking on my second career as a happiness speaker, writer, teacher, and practitioner.

          Here are some of the problems with happiness science from my perspective.

          First of all, science is a Johnny-come-lately when it comes to happiness.  Most scientists studying happiness are psychologists whose training and experience come from their studies of patients with mental dysfunction and unhappiness.  For the most part, their training in happiness and the positive emotions is, well, limited.  But things are changing.  Because of the new burgeoning field of positive psychology, more and more psychologists are now studying positive mental and emotional functioning in addition to their dysfunction.

          Also, happiness may well be second only to spirituality in the difficulties it presents for scientific study.  Some of these stumbling blocks include:

·        There is no agreed upon definition for happiness.

·        There is no objective way for measuring happiness.

·        There is no proven system for teaching happiness.

·        We aren’t even able to properly describe happiness nor do we have a sure-fire way for identifying those individuals who actually are deeply happy.

          While this appraisal is limited and not at all scientific, I should point out that it seems that many of the scientists studying happiness do not appear to be particularly happy themselves.  Since happiness is universally desired, why should we believe the recommendations of those who would tell us how to be happier unless they are using their information for enriching their own happiness?

          Nettle asserts this about happiness: “…if you are above neutral, but below the maximum most of the time, then this is probably as good as it gets.”  Despite this dour prognosis, Nettle, our science proxy, considers no other source than science for steering us to happiness. 

          I disagree.  While we eagerly wait for happiness science to mature past its awkward adolescence, there is another more immediately helpful wellspring available to us: happiness practitioners.  Examples of such people include Lionel Ketchian, founder of the Happiness Clubs, Julian Kalmar, author of the CD collection,  Happiness: The Highest Gift, and Rabbi Zelig Pliskin, who wrote Gateway to Happiness.  These are people who, through a combination of serendipity and great effort, discovered what actually works for cultivating deep abiding happiness. 

          We all want happiness, although few of us actually experience the happiness of our dreams; happiness that is independent of external events, happiness that doesn’t leave just as we begin enjoying it, happiness that arises from deep within us.  Someday science will provide the best answers; of that I am certain.  But we’re not there yet.  Until we get there, I suggest we make use of the wisdom and methods of those of us who have already succeeded in finding lasting happiness; the happiness practitioners.

                                                                                             
 
In a message dated 10/1/2005 7:51:37 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mdmacg@... writes:
Has anyone read Daniel Nettles book "Happiness"? Is it worth buying? I notice it has 30% off on Amazon.

 - Mal
 


Sat Oct 1, 2005 2:45 pm

thehappiness...
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Hi Everyone, Recently I've been listening to a few very good interviews on happiness originally presented on National Public Radio through this audio/video...
George Ortega
thehappiness...
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Oct 1, 2005
4:55 am

Thanks George, I enjoyed the first interview with Daniel Nettles and others, only another 29 to go! ... From: happinessgroup@yahoogroups.com...
Malcolm Macgregor
mal4mac
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Oct 1, 2005
10:46 am

So did I & thanks for introducing me to singing fish! Meredith Cary, PsyD _____ From: happinessgroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:happinessgroup@yahoogroups.com] On...
Meredith
meredith_cary
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Oct 1, 2005
11:41 am

Has anyone read Daniel Nettles book "Happiness"? Is it worth buying? I notice it has 30% off on Amazon. - Mal...
Malcolm Macgregor
mal4mac
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Oct 1, 2005
11:51 am

Dear Mal, Yes, I read the book Happiness by Daniel Nettles. I rarely say what I am about to say but here goes. It was a book that was very well written as...
PRINTLRK@...
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Oct 1, 2005
1:39 pm

... What is "the whole meaning of happiness", and how did Nettle miss it? ... happiness. Are you saying you can't take a scientific approach to happiness? ... ...
Malcolm Macgregor
mal4mac
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Oct 1, 2005
3:17 pm

Lionel, I appreciate the review, however it would be helpful if you could cite some examples you disagree with. You included Dr. Nozik's work as cited below to...
George Ortega
thehappiness...
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Oct 1, 2005
2:45 pm

I'm still wondering if Nettle's book is worth buying. Here's part of a ... tml----------- The only problem is that just as he throws in an idea which will...
Malcolm Macgregor
mal4mac
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Oct 1, 2005
3:54 pm
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