Sorry to hear about your relapse.  I thought for sure you had made it out of the
woods for good like most folks do.

I had numerous relapses through the years.  Some very, very bad like yours. 
After about the 4.5 year mark when I had a really bad one, the relapses got
lighter and lighter and farther and farther apart.  I still relapse even at the
8 year plus mark.  BUT, I only relapse on the tendon issues.  All of the CNS and
PNS symptoms are long gone thankfully.  I am very functional now even during the
downturns.  I just have to dial things back a bit during the downturns.  During
the good times, I can do most things except for heavy lifting and high impact
sports like tennis and running.  I can play golf, ski, roller blade, bike
vigorously, etc.  I do have aches and pains when doing these things, but they
are very manageable.

Good luck.  I'm sure you will come out of the relapse before too long.

Also, I went to Cleveland Clinic and Mayo Clinic and got the all hands on deck,
multi discipline cooperative approach to medicine. Still got no answers and most
of the docs were very skeptical of the FQ reaction.

--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "columbiajake" <jaker12@...> wrote:
>
> Dave - I did the doctor route 3 years ago and came up empty, so this will
probably be more of the same.  The tests never showed anything worthwhile, so
how can the docs say I'm injured if their tests show nothing wrong...my wife
really wants me to go because she is pretty scared seeing me with all these
bizarre symptons again after all these years. She thinks something else is wrong
with me, does not believe FQs can resurface like this.  I almost want do this to
put one more good faith effort to show its incurable or something can be
done....what scares me is if Todd could not get help with his contacts in
medicine what chance do I have.
>
> Jake
>
> --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, Fqresearch@ wrote:
> >
> > Any number of previous members from the old forum have gone that route, not
> >  only at Hopkins but also at the Mayo Clinic.  Doctors at both were
> > pathetically clueless, arrogant, insulting and of course denied that the
> > quinolones could possibly be to blame for their problems.  In fact this is 
what
> > John Hopkins had to say after the Black Box Warnings were added last  year:
> >
> > _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiwUE80v_oI_
> > (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiwUE80v_oI)
> >
> > Basically Paul Auwaerter, MD, MBA, of the John Hopkins School of 
Medicine
> > is stating that the drugs cannot possibly cause all these  problems and
> > that the Black Box warnings not only were not needed but an over  reaction
by
> > the FDA.  You can see him lying through his teeth in that video  and you
just
> > want to grab his next tie and strangle his fat ass.
> >
> > You are correct Hal that this Intern is far too naive at the moment.
> > Maybe if enough of us quinolone victims show up on their door step they will
> > fire Paul Auwaerter and try to help us.
> >
> > When hell freezes over...and pig's sprout wings and start flying...
> >
> > See?  I can just as naive as Jake's Intern as that ain't never gonna
> > happen in our lifetime even if every member of this forum showed up at John
> > Hopkins School of Medicine on the same day.  They'd Baker Act each and 
every
> > one of us.
> >
> > No offense Jake, but what your Intern is suggesting has been done many
> > times and the results have all been the same.  In fact a doctor who was
> > damaged by these drugs had tried that as well and they pretty much just
laughed
> > at him.
> >
> > But hope is hope, so what are you gonna do?  So go for it and see what
> > happens.
> >
> > capt' dave
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 11/10/2009 9:31:30 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> > reallynolie@ writes:
> >
> > That  intern has probably been watching too much House, been smoking
> > something, or  is CraZy to think Hopkins has teams waiting around to do 
that.
> >
> > Hal
> >
> >
> > --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "columbiajake"  <jaker12@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Feel free to vent, that was the  only thing that got me through this.  At
> > 3 months out my life was a  living hell with over 30 ADRs.
> > >
> > > I had a relapse in September  after 2 years of just minor on and off
> > symptoms.  Felt feverish for  weeks, along with leg trembling and weakness,
also
> > chills and headaches.   Thought I had Lyme or something worse, well, just
> > the FQs cycling again when I  never thought that could happen.
> > >
> > > I went to a new internist  and he believes me!  Told me I had a
> > disability because its been  impacting my quality of life for months now and
multiple
> > internal systems are  clearly haywired.  Suggested I go to Hopkins to have
> > a team of doctors  look at me and brainstorm my situation.  May be worth a
> > shot....versus  the hop to another specialist approach we all seem to take
> > and no one can put  all the clues together.
> > >
> > > Jake
> > >
> > > --- In  fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "katcradit" <katarinacradit@> wrote:
> > >  >
> > > >
> > > > I just need to vent real quick
> > > > i  feel ill right now...after feeling good in the morning then
> > depressed in the  evening now..
> > > > my belly hurts like heck, i feel feverish, my  muscles hurt in random
> > places and especially my back/hip, tired, my joints  click and i have little
> > muscle twitches everywhere.
> > > >
> > >  > oh and a little bit of tingling burning things in my hands and
> > arms...what could that be? is this CNS related or something else?
> > > >
> > > > i'm mostly concerned about my mental health and the clicking  popping
> > things though should I let my bone density get checked?
> > > > I  do take magnesium every day, a vitamin b complex and good bacteria
> > for my  gastro stuff as well as do VERY light yoga (I can HEAR my bones when
> > I do it  lol)...started this a few days ago...
> > > >
> > > > I must say  three months out I feel better though, my anxiety,
> > insomnia, restlessness, the  cognitive stuff, memory loss, disorientation,
seems to
> > have  improved...
> > > >
> > > > also I've noticed my teeth are getting  worse? noticed some stuff a few
> > days ago but guess its nothing a dental visit  couldnt help, could this be
> > related to the Cipro I took too?? Anybody had  this?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  what the heck
> > >  >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo!  Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Dave - I did the doctor route 3 years ago and came up empty, so this will
probably be more of the same.  The tests never showed anything worthwhile, so
how can the docs say I'm injured if their tests show nothing wrong...my wife
really wants me to go because she is pretty scared seeing me with all these
bizarre symptons again after all these years. She thinks something else is wrong
with me, does not believe FQs can resurface like this.  I almost want do this to
put one more good faith effort to show its incurable or something can be
done....what scares me is if Todd could not get help with his contacts in
medicine what chance do I have.

Jake

--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, Fqresearch@... wrote:
>
> Any number of previous members from the old forum have gone that route, not
>  only at Hopkins but also at the Mayo Clinic.  Doctors at both were
> pathetically clueless, arrogant, insulting and of course denied that the
> quinolones could possibly be to blame for their problems.  In fact this is 
what
> John Hopkins had to say after the Black Box Warnings were added last  year:
>
> _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiwUE80v_oI_
> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiwUE80v_oI)
>
> Basically Paul Auwaerter, MD, MBA, of the John Hopkins School of  Medicine
> is stating that the drugs cannot possibly cause all these  problems and
> that the Black Box warnings not only were not needed but an over  reaction by
> the FDA.  You can see him lying through his teeth in that video  and you just
> want to grab his next tie and strangle his fat ass.
>
> You are correct Hal that this Intern is far too naive at the moment.
> Maybe if enough of us quinolone victims show up on their door step they will
> fire Paul Auwaerter and try to help us.
>
> When hell freezes over...and pig's sprout wings and start flying...
>
> See?  I can just as naive as Jake's Intern as that ain't never gonna
> happen in our lifetime even if every member of this forum showed up at John
> Hopkins School of Medicine on the same day.  They'd Baker Act each and  every
> one of us.
>
> No offense Jake, but what your Intern is suggesting has been done many
> times and the results have all been the same.  In fact a doctor who was
> damaged by these drugs had tried that as well and they pretty much just
laughed
> at him.
>
> But hope is hope, so what are you gonna do?  So go for it and see what
> happens.
>
> capt' dave
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 11/10/2009 9:31:30 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> reallynolie@... writes:
>
> That  intern has probably been watching too much House, been smoking
> something, or  is CraZy to think Hopkins has teams waiting around to do  that.
>
> Hal
>
>
> --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "columbiajake"  <jaker12@> wrote:
> >
> > Feel free to vent, that was the  only thing that got me through this.  At
> 3 months out my life was a  living hell with over 30 ADRs.
> >
> > I had a relapse in September  after 2 years of just minor on and off
> symptoms.  Felt feverish for  weeks, along with leg trembling and weakness,
also
> chills and headaches.   Thought I had Lyme or something worse, well, just
> the FQs cycling again when I  never thought that could happen.
> >
> > I went to a new internist  and he believes me!  Told me I had a
> disability because its been  impacting my quality of life for months now and
multiple
> internal systems are  clearly haywired.  Suggested I go to Hopkins to have
> a team of doctors  look at me and brainstorm my situation.  May be worth a
> shot....versus  the hop to another specialist approach we all seem to take
> and no one can put  all the clues together.
> >
> > Jake
> >
> > --- In  fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "katcradit" <katarinacradit@> wrote:
> >  >
> > >
> > > I just need to vent real quick
> > > i  feel ill right now...after feeling good in the morning then
> depressed in the  evening now..
> > > my belly hurts like heck, i feel feverish, my  muscles hurt in random
> places and especially my back/hip, tired, my joints  click and i have little
> muscle twitches everywhere.
> > >
> >  > oh and a little bit of tingling burning things in my hands and
> arms...what could that be? is this CNS related or something else?
> > >
> > > i'm mostly concerned about my mental health and the clicking  popping
> things though should I let my bone density get checked?
> > > I  do take magnesium every day, a vitamin b complex and good bacteria
> for my  gastro stuff as well as do VERY light yoga (I can HEAR my bones when
> I do it  lol)...started this a few days ago...
> > >
> > > I must say  three months out I feel better though, my anxiety,
> insomnia, restlessness, the  cognitive stuff, memory loss, disorientation,
seems to
> have  improved...
> > >
> > > also I've noticed my teeth are getting  worse? noticed some stuff a few
> days ago but guess its nothing a dental visit  couldnt help, could this be
> related to the Cipro I took too?? Anybody had  this?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  what the heck
> >  >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo!  Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Thats actually quite true - although I never respected my body's FQ limits and
constantly pay the price.

Jake
--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "Hal F" <reallynolie@...> wrote:
>
> Yep.  Whenever I over do work I feel like absolute crap with a lot of pain
everywhere for a few days.  You got to realize you now have limits and those
don't necessarily show when you're actually doing the work/exercise.  You just
have to set a limit and not go over it even if you don't feel anything at the
time.  I polished two of my mag rims yesterday taking about 1 hour of intense
finger/arm working.  I felt it about 3 hours later and was glad I stopped when I
did because all through the night my fingers were hurting.  Woke up this morning
not feeling too bad so I guess I timed it about right.
>
> Hal
>
> --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "columbiajake" <jaker12@> wrote:
> >
> > I agree with all your points.  Now the lead doc who deals with ADRs can't
see me until March!!! I am trying to get on his calendar.
> >
> > I felt good yesterday and went to the gym for a 45 minute weight lifting
session.  Left and felt like I would pass out for about 15 seconds on the drive
home.  Today I woke up with rotating pains in my upper body and feel sick
inside.  Not pains like being sore from lifting, rather pains from the FQ.  We
all know the difference.  Bone in my right hand hurts, then shoulders hurt, feel
like the flu coming on with these pains.  But no leg trembling today. Inside of
my head also feels strange, another FQ system over the last 6 weeks....I can not
wait until this cycle passes, assuming it will pass....
> >
> > --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "Heidi" <alces54@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I hope you will go ahead with the Hopkins visit, certainly for your sake,
but also for the sake of all the other sufferers of FQed Up Syndrome.  Having a
team of docs at Hopkins acknowledging multiple system disruption from
flouroquinolones might be a real boon to a) raising awareness of fq damage,
b)research on fq damage some day yielding some real help for sufferers and c)
getting docs to stop lightly prescribing and mobilizing the FDA to get off its
dead ass relative to regulation.
> > >
> > > a) Win.
> > > b) win
> > > c) win.
> > >
> > > But only if you have the time, the inclination to endure a bunch more
poking and prodding, and the requisite insurance to cover it all.
> > >
> > > No pressure.
> > >
> > > On a more serious note, how are you feeling now?  I've been thinking about
you since you last posted.  Any relief from the latest onslaught?
> > >
> > > Heidi
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "columbiajake" <jaker12@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Feel free to vent, that was the only thing that got me through this.  At
3 months out my life was a living hell with over 30 ADRs.
> > > >
> > > > I had a relapse in September after 2 years of just minor on and off
symptoms.  Felt feverish for weeks, along with leg trembling and weakness, also
chills and headaches.  Thought I had Lyme or something worse, well, just the FQs
cycling again when I never thought that could happen.
> > > >
> > > > I went to a new internist and he believes me!  Told me I had a
disability because its been impacting my quality of life for months now and
multiple internal systems are clearly haywired.  Suggested I go to Hopkins to
have a team of doctors look at me and brainstorm my situation.  May be worth a
shot....versus the hop to another specialist approach we all seem to take and no
one can put all the clues together.
> > > >
> > > > Jake
> > > >
> > > > --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "katcradit" <katarinacradit@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I just need to vent real quick
> > > > > i feel ill right now...after feeling good in the morning then
depressed in the evening now..
> > > > > my belly hurts like heck, i feel feverish, my muscles hurt in random
places and especially my back/hip, tired, my joints click and i have little
muscle twitches everywhere.
> > > > >
> > > > > oh and a little bit of tingling burning things in my hands and
arms...what could that be? is this CNS related or something else?
> > > > >
> > > > > i'm mostly concerned about my mental health and the clicking popping
things though should I let my bone density get checked?
> > > > > I do take magnesium every day, a vitamin b complex and good bacteria
for my gastro stuff as well as do VERY light yoga (I can HEAR my bones when I do
it lol)...started this a few days ago...
> > > > >
> > > > > I must say three months out I feel better though, my anxiety,
insomnia, restlessness, the cognitive stuff, memory loss, disorientation, seems
to have improved...
> > > > >
> > > > > also I've noticed my teeth are getting worse? noticed some stuff a few
days ago but guess its nothing a dental visit couldnt help, could this be
related to the Cipro I took too?? Anybody had this?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > what the heck
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Central Nervous System issues...impacting everything from the sleep we get,
anxiety, muscle trembling....

Jake

--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, Tiffany <tiffanym5902@...> wrote:
>
> What is CNS?  As it pertains to FQ? I hear it mentioned alot :)
>
> Tiffany
>

Central Nervous System


-----Original Message-----
From: Tiffany <tiffanym5902@...>
To: FQ Group 1 <fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:11 pm
Subject: [fqtoxicity] Question






What is CNS? As it pertains to FQ? I hear it mentioned alot :)

Tiffany







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yep.  Whenever I over do work I feel like absolute crap with a lot of pain
everywhere for a few days.  You got to realize you now have limits and those
don't necessarily show when you're actually doing the work/exercise.  You just
have to set a limit and not go over it even if you don't feel anything at the
time.  I polished two of my mag rims yesterday taking about 1 hour of intense
finger/arm working.  I felt it about 3 hours later and was glad I stopped when I
did because all through the night my fingers were hurting.  Woke up this morning
not feeling too bad so I guess I timed it about right.

Hal

--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "columbiajake" <jaker12@...> wrote:
>
> I agree with all your points.  Now the lead doc who deals with ADRs can't see
me until March!!! I am trying to get on his calendar.
>
> I felt good yesterday and went to the gym for a 45 minute weight lifting
session.  Left and felt like I would pass out for about 15 seconds on the drive
home.  Today I woke up with rotating pains in my upper body and feel sick
inside.  Not pains like being sore from lifting, rather pains from the FQ.  We
all know the difference.  Bone in my right hand hurts, then shoulders hurt, feel
like the flu coming on with these pains.  But no leg trembling today. Inside of
my head also feels strange, another FQ system over the last 6 weeks....I can not
wait until this cycle passes, assuming it will pass....
>
> --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "Heidi" <alces54@> wrote:
> >
> > I hope you will go ahead with the Hopkins visit, certainly for your sake,
but also for the sake of all the other sufferers of FQed Up Syndrome.  Having a
team of docs at Hopkins acknowledging multiple system disruption from
flouroquinolones might be a real boon to a) raising awareness of fq damage,
b)research on fq damage some day yielding some real help for sufferers and c)
getting docs to stop lightly prescribing and mobilizing the FDA to get off its
dead ass relative to regulation.
> >
> > a) Win.
> > b) win
> > c) win.
> >
> > But only if you have the time, the inclination to endure a bunch more poking
and prodding, and the requisite insurance to cover it all.
> >
> > No pressure.
> >
> > On a more serious note, how are you feeling now?  I've been thinking about
you since you last posted.  Any relief from the latest onslaught?
> >
> > Heidi
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "columbiajake" <jaker12@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Feel free to vent, that was the only thing that got me through this.  At 3
months out my life was a living hell with over 30 ADRs.
> > >
> > > I had a relapse in September after 2 years of just minor on and off
symptoms.  Felt feverish for weeks, along with leg trembling and weakness, also
chills and headaches.  Thought I had Lyme or something worse, well, just the FQs
cycling again when I never thought that could happen.
> > >
> > > I went to a new internist and he believes me!  Told me I had a disability
because its been impacting my quality of life for months now and multiple
internal systems are clearly haywired.  Suggested I go to Hopkins to have a team
of doctors look at me and brainstorm my situation.  May be worth a
shot....versus the hop to another specialist approach we all seem to take and no
one can put all the clues together.
> > >
> > > Jake
> > >
> > > --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "katcradit" <katarinacradit@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I just need to vent real quick
> > > > i feel ill right now...after feeling good in the morning then depressed
in the evening now..
> > > > my belly hurts like heck, i feel feverish, my muscles hurt in random
places and especially my back/hip, tired, my joints click and i have little
muscle twitches everywhere.
> > > >
> > > > oh and a little bit of tingling burning things in my hands and
arms...what could that be? is this CNS related or something else?
> > > >
> > > > i'm mostly concerned about my mental health and the clicking popping
things though should I let my bone density get checked?
> > > > I do take magnesium every day, a vitamin b complex and good bacteria for
my gastro stuff as well as do VERY light yoga (I can HEAR my bones when I do it
lol)...started this a few days ago...
> > > >
> > > > I must say three months out I feel better though, my anxiety, insomnia,
restlessness, the cognitive stuff, memory loss, disorientation, seems to have
improved...
> > > >
> > > > also I've noticed my teeth are getting worse? noticed some stuff a few
days ago but guess its nothing a dental visit couldnt help, could this be
related to the Cipro I took too?? Anybody had this?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > what the heck
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

What is CNS?  As it pertains to FQ? I hear it mentioned alot :)

Tiffany

I agree with all your points.  Now the lead doc who deals with ADRs can't see me
until March!!! I am trying to get on his calendar.

I felt good yesterday and went to the gym for a 45 minute weight lifting
session.  Left and felt like I would pass out for about 15 seconds on the drive
home.  Today I woke up with rotating pains in my upper body and feel sick
inside.  Not pains like being sore from lifting, rather pains from the FQ.  We
all know the difference.  Bone in my right hand hurts, then shoulders hurt, feel
like the flu coming on with these pains.  But no leg trembling today. Inside of
my head also feels strange, another FQ system over the last 6 weeks....I can not
wait until this cycle passes, assuming it will pass....

--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "Heidi" <alces54@...> wrote:
>
> I hope you will go ahead with the Hopkins visit, certainly for your sake, but
also for the sake of all the other sufferers of FQed Up Syndrome.  Having a team
of docs at Hopkins acknowledging multiple system disruption from
flouroquinolones might be a real boon to a) raising awareness of fq damage,
b)research on fq damage some day yielding some real help for sufferers and c)
getting docs to stop lightly prescribing and mobilizing the FDA to get off its
dead ass relative to regulation.
>
> a) Win.
> b) win
> c) win.
>
> But only if you have the time, the inclination to endure a bunch more poking
and prodding, and the requisite insurance to cover it all.
>
> No pressure.
>
> On a more serious note, how are you feeling now?  I've been thinking about you
since you last posted.  Any relief from the latest onslaught?
>
> Heidi
>
>
>
> --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "columbiajake" <jaker12@> wrote:
> >
> > Feel free to vent, that was the only thing that got me through this.  At 3
months out my life was a living hell with over 30 ADRs.
> >
> > I had a relapse in September after 2 years of just minor on and off
symptoms.  Felt feverish for weeks, along with leg trembling and weakness, also
chills and headaches.  Thought I had Lyme or something worse, well, just the FQs
cycling again when I never thought that could happen.
> >
> > I went to a new internist and he believes me!  Told me I had a disability
because its been impacting my quality of life for months now and multiple
internal systems are clearly haywired.  Suggested I go to Hopkins to have a team
of doctors look at me and brainstorm my situation.  May be worth a
shot....versus the hop to another specialist approach we all seem to take and no
one can put all the clues together.
> >
> > Jake
> >
> > --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "katcradit" <katarinacradit@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I just need to vent real quick
> > > i feel ill right now...after feeling good in the morning then depressed in
the evening now..
> > > my belly hurts like heck, i feel feverish, my muscles hurt in random
places and especially my back/hip, tired, my joints click and i have little
muscle twitches everywhere.
> > >
> > > oh and a little bit of tingling burning things in my hands and arms...what
could that be? is this CNS related or something else?
> > >
> > > i'm mostly concerned about my mental health and the clicking popping
things though should I let my bone density get checked?
> > > I do take magnesium every day, a vitamin b complex and good bacteria for
my gastro stuff as well as do VERY light yoga (I can HEAR my bones when I do it
lol)...started this a few days ago...
> > >
> > > I must say three months out I feel better though, my anxiety, insomnia,
restlessness, the cognitive stuff, memory loss, disorientation, seems to have
improved...
> > >
> > > also I've noticed my teeth are getting worse? noticed some stuff a few
days ago but guess its nothing a dental visit couldnt help, could this be
related to the Cipro I took too?? Anybody had this?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > what the heck
> > >
> >
>

HI,

    The first 2 days of my periods are extremely heavy, and I basically feel so
weak and my head starts to get that vibrating numb feeling, and I feel so wiped
out almost like you have the flu but you dont really. I had to stay in the house
the first 2 days it is so bad.
I am trying to figure out if its a temporary anemia or if its hormone related
and it brings out flox symptoms. Day 3 comes and I am back to my old (floxed)
self.
Prefloxing my periods didnt phase me in the least, but they also werent this
heavy.

Anyone else have this?

Karen
almost 2 years post cipro, cant believe its been so long now!
(To those in the early stages: trust me it gets better, so glad I didnt kill
myself back then)

I noticed the FDA yanked the original NDA for Cipro that showed the smaller
percentage of ADRs (under 2%).  They listed all our ADRs, like over 50 of them. 
My girlfriend had made a printout of the whole thing years ago.  I THREW IT
AWAY, believing that information will always be there.  Now it just lists a few
things.  Shoot me.

Hal

--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, Fqresearch@... wrote:
>
> Any number of previous members from the old forum have gone that route, not
>  only at Hopkins but also at the Mayo Clinic.  Doctors at both were
> pathetically clueless, arrogant, insulting and of course denied that the
> quinolones could possibly be to blame for their problems.  In fact this is 
what
> John Hopkins had to say after the Black Box Warnings were added last  year:
>
> _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiwUE80v_oI_
> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiwUE80v_oI)
>
> Basically Paul Auwaerter, MD, MBA, of the John Hopkins School of  Medicine
> is stating that the drugs cannot possibly cause all these  problems and
> that the Black Box warnings not only were not needed but an over  reaction by
> the FDA.  You can see him lying through his teeth in that video  and you just
> want to grab his next tie and strangle his fat ass.
>
> You are correct Hal that this Intern is far too naive at the moment.
> Maybe if enough of us quinolone victims show up on their door step they will
> fire Paul Auwaerter and try to help us.
>
> When hell freezes over...and pig's sprout wings and start flying...
>
> See?  I can just as naive as Jake's Intern as that ain't never gonna
> happen in our lifetime even if every member of this forum showed up at John
> Hopkins School of Medicine on the same day.  They'd Baker Act each and  every
> one of us.
>
> No offense Jake, but what your Intern is suggesting has been done many
> times and the results have all been the same.  In fact a doctor who was
> damaged by these drugs had tried that as well and they pretty much just
laughed
> at him.
>
> But hope is hope, so what are you gonna do?  So go for it and see what
> happens.
>
> capt' dave
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 11/10/2009 9:31:30 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> reallynolie@... writes:
>
> That  intern has probably been watching too much House, been smoking
> something, or  is CraZy to think Hopkins has teams waiting around to do  that.
>
> Hal
>
>
> --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "columbiajake"  <jaker12@> wrote:
> >
> > Feel free to vent, that was the  only thing that got me through this.  At
> 3 months out my life was a  living hell with over 30 ADRs.
> >
> > I had a relapse in September  after 2 years of just minor on and off
> symptoms.  Felt feverish for  weeks, along with leg trembling and weakness,
also
> chills and headaches.   Thought I had Lyme or something worse, well, just
> the FQs cycling again when I  never thought that could happen.
> >
> > I went to a new internist  and he believes me!  Told me I had a
> disability because its been  impacting my quality of life for months now and
multiple
> internal systems are  clearly haywired.  Suggested I go to Hopkins to have
> a team of doctors  look at me and brainstorm my situation.  May be worth a
> shot....versus  the hop to another specialist approach we all seem to take
> and no one can put  all the clues together.
> >
> > Jake
> >
> > --- In  fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "katcradit" <katarinacradit@> wrote:
> >  >
> > >
> > > I just need to vent real quick
> > > i  feel ill right now...after feeling good in the morning then
> depressed in the  evening now..
> > > my belly hurts like heck, i feel feverish, my  muscles hurt in random
> places and especially my back/hip, tired, my joints  click and i have little
> muscle twitches everywhere.
> > >
> >  > oh and a little bit of tingling burning things in my hands and
> arms...what could that be? is this CNS related or something else?
> > >
> > > i'm mostly concerned about my mental health and the clicking  popping
> things though should I let my bone density get checked?
> > > I  do take magnesium every day, a vitamin b complex and good bacteria
> for my  gastro stuff as well as do VERY light yoga (I can HEAR my bones when
> I do it  lol)...started this a few days ago...
> > >
> > > I must say  three months out I feel better though, my anxiety,
> insomnia, restlessness, the  cognitive stuff, memory loss, disorientation,
seems to
> have  improved...
> > >
> > > also I've noticed my teeth are getting  worse? noticed some stuff a few
> days ago but guess its nothing a dental visit  couldnt help, could this be
> related to the Cipro I took too?? Anybody had  this?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  what the heck
> >  >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo!  Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

The more fancy degrees (MD, PhD, etc...) doctors have, the more far away from
reality they are.

Is it true that FQs had Black Box Warning regarding neuropathies prior to 2004?

-Alex


--- On Wed, 11/11/09, Fqresearch@... <Fqresearch@...> wrote:

From: Fqresearch@... <Fqresearch@...>
Subject: Re: [fqtoxicity] Re: Little vent about my symptoms right now, 3 months
out
To: fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 7:44 AM







 









       Any number of previous members from the old forum have gone that route,
not

  only at Hopkins but also at the Mayo Clinic.  Doctors at both were

pathetically clueless, arrogant, insulting and of course denied that the

quinolones could possibly be to blame for their problems.  In fact this is  what

John Hopkins had to say after the Black Box Warnings were added last  year:



_http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=yiwUE80v_ oI_

(http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=yiwUE80v_ oI)



Basically Paul Auwaerter, MD, MBA, of the John Hopkins School of  Medicine

is stating that the drugs cannot possibly cause all these  problems and

that the Black Box warnings not only were not needed but an over  reaction by

the FDA.  You can see him lying through his teeth in that video  and you just

want to grab his next tie and strangle his fat ass.



You are correct Hal that this Intern is far too naive at the moment.

Maybe if enough of us quinolone victims show up on their door step they will

fire Paul Auwaerter and try to help us.



When hell freezes over...and pig's sprout wings and start flying...



See?  I can just as naive as Jake's Intern as that ain't never gonna

happen in our lifetime even if every member of this forum showed up at John

Hopkins School of Medicine on the same day.  They'd Baker Act each and  every

one of us.



No offense Jake, but what your Intern is suggesting has been done many

times and the results have all been the same.  In fact a doctor who was

damaged by these drugs had tried that as well and they pretty much just laughed

at him.



But hope is hope, so what are you gonna do?  So go for it and see what

happens.



capt' dave









In a message dated 11/10/2009 9:31:30 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

reallynolie@ yahoo.com writes:



That  intern has probably been watching too much House, been smoking

something, or  is CraZy to think Hopkins has teams waiting around to do  that.



Hal



--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogro ups.com, "columbiajake"  <jaker12@... > wrote:

>

> Feel free to vent, that was the  only thing that got me through this.  At

3 months out my life was a  living hell with over 30 ADRs.

>

> I had a relapse in September  after 2 years of just minor on and off

symptoms.  Felt feverish for  weeks, along with leg trembling and weakness, also

chills and headaches.   Thought I had Lyme or something worse, well, just

the FQs cycling again when I  never thought that could happen.

>

> I went to a new internist  and he believes me!  Told me I had a

disability because its been  impacting my quality of life for months now and
multiple

internal systems are  clearly haywired.  Suggested I go to Hopkins to have

a team of doctors  look at me and brainstorm my situation.  May be worth a

shot....versus  the hop to another specialist approach we all seem to take

and no one can put  all the clues together.

>

> Jake

>

> --- In  fqtoxicity@yahoogro ups.com, "katcradit" <katarinacradit@ > wrote:

>  >

> >

> > I just need to vent real quick

> > i  feel ill right now...after feeling good in the morning then

depressed in the  evening now..

> > my belly hurts like heck, i feel feverish, my  muscles hurt in random

places and especially my back/hip, tired, my joints  click and i have little

muscle twitches everywhere.

> >

>  > oh and a little bit of tingling burning things in my hands and

arms...what could that be? is this CNS related or something else?

> >

> > i'm mostly concerned about my mental health and the clicking  popping

things though should I let my bone density get checked?

> > I  do take magnesium every day, a vitamin b complex and good bacteria

for my  gastro stuff as well as do VERY light yoga (I can HEAR my bones when

I do it  lol)...started this a few days ago...

> >

> > I must say  three months out I feel better though, my anxiety,

insomnia, restlessness, the  cognitive stuff, memory loss, disorientation, seems
to

have  improved...

> >

> > also I've noticed my teeth are getting  worse? noticed some stuff a few

days ago but guess its nothing a dental visit  couldnt help, could this be

related to the Cipro I took too?? Anybody had  this?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >  what the heck

>  >

>



------------ --------- --------- ------



Yahoo!  Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Would love to connect with someone in my area.



Kat

Did we create this drug and say to hell with the subsequent reported  side
effects, many life threatening or debilitating?

Yep.  Sounds like you understand exactly what we are up against  here.  We
have known for forty years what these drugs do, not only to  the human
brain, but the entire nervous system (Central and Peripheral).   I've documented
it on the research site.  Here's your links:

_http://fqresearch.org/ftrf_brain_damage_archives.htm_
(http://fqresearch.org/ftrf_brain_damage_archives.htm)

_http://fqresearch.org/ftrf_cns_pns_archives.htm_
(http://fqresearch.org/ftrf_cns_pns_archives.htm)

_http://fqresearch.org/ftrf_burning_pain_archives_3.htm_
(http://fqresearch.org/ftrf_burning_pain_archives_3.htm)

_http://fqresearch.org/ftrf_seizures.htm_
(http://fqresearch.org/ftrf_seizures.htm)

And on and on it goes with well over 4000 such articles.  Welcome to  our
world.  I've been bitching about this since 1999.  And for a  decade it has
fallen on deaf ears.  So let me be amongst the first to  welcome you to this
shady side of hell.  Please to meet you...

capt' dave




In a message dated 11/10/2009 11:41:49 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
scubasteve1621@... writes:

Is there  really no one who knows exactly what Levaquin does to the human
brain? Not a  chemist from Johnson and Johnson? Not a University, private or
public? Not a  neurologist, pharmacist, psychiatrist, or any other MD? Did
we create this  drug and say to hell with the subsequent reported side
effects, many life  threatening or debilitating? Not only are we cognizant of
the
effects and  short on informing the public, we don't even know how exactly
it fries your  very cellular being! Alas, the Matrix of prescription drugs!

There  must be someone out there, somewhere. In an office of a drug
corporation's  headquarters. Or in a lab where the mechanisms of this poison are
finally  being figured out, either by the makers who will share nothing of it,
or by  researchers who will take years to publish it.

How can "CNS  stimulation", written in fine print in a package insert,
suffice to define my  inescapable head pressure, confusion, insomnia,
palpitations, tinnitus, and  restlessness?

"I just don't think the Levaquin did this to you... Not  one dose of
Levaquin..."

So what you're really saying is that the  Levaquin could have done this to
me if I were to have taken, say, three doses?  Five doses? Hell, a week's
worth? Who are you to say that one wasn't enough,  when I've talked to a woman
who has had Grand Mal seizures going on two  decades post one dose of
Floxin, while you ignore the fact that I have clearly  communicated to you that
this onslaught of absurd symptoms, specifically the  abnormal mentation,
began within two hours of ingesting the pill?

How  do I even measure improvement when, over 100 days in, I forget that I
told  myself I was walking to another room of my house to get the phone? I
walk to  my destination, and when I arrive I must pause and sort through my
scrambled  eggs-for-brains and realize what I'm doing. How do I prove that my
brain is  not working correctly, that these sentences are taking me forever
to put  together?

I can't imagine how many older folks have written these  things off to old
age or other diseases. Maybe I would too if I were 50, or  60. However, I'm
19. 18 a few months ago when I took that Godforsaken pill.  Maybe doctors
will start to understand quinolones for what they are when they  realize I was
a perfectly healthy young adult before this, not some  questionable middle
aged person who could be plagued with a number of other  potential problems.
I know my body. If I were "sick", I'd feel crappy for a  few days, and get
up one morning and be ready to play soccer, go to class, or  go out to a
party with my friends. I'm not just "sick", I'm physically altered  at the core.

It's an awkward reality. By now, 2009, a wealth of  anecdotal evidence of
the very things I am going through are scattered about  on the internet.
Less, but still some in the medical literature. There's a  black box warning for
the VISIBLE reaction to the drug. Some don't believe the  other reactions,
others do. Those who do want to help, but have absolutely no  idea how to.
Do I sit around and do nothing for what seems like an eternity  until I feel
some improvement? (And I havn't felt improvement yet). Or do I  plug along
with my parents from doctor to doctor, looking for Levaquin answers  or the
highly unlikely possibility that something else is contributing to my  health
problems? Maybe the latter will at least keep me distracted in the
meantime.

Something is clearly not right when I was running miles every  day the week
before that day, and now it's out of the question to do any  exercise other
than "waking up" and walking around aimlessly to work and back  in my
zombie-like state, so as to save myself the guaranteed diffuse  muscle/tendon
(and now) burning pain afterward. What does it even matter, I  don't have the
energy to jog down my street anyways.

I'd rather have a  treatable form of cancer. I just want my brain back. My
tinnitus-less ears  back. My normal hunger to eat 4 meals a day, instead of
this torn apart,  gassy, damaged feeling in my stomach. Maybe this EEG will
show something. Yay!  If so, now I can take an antipsychotic to quell the
partial seizures I've been  having 24/7!

But I'm getting ahead of myself... I'm just imagining  there's tangible
evidence of the damage I know has been done to my body,  evidence that confirms
my mere illustrations of symptoms to countless doctors,  some of whom won't
even believe that Levaquin is ninety-five percent chemical  bullshit...





------------------------------------

Yahoo!  Groups Links







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Any number of previous members from the old forum have gone that route, not
  only at Hopkins but also at the Mayo Clinic.  Doctors at both were
pathetically clueless, arrogant, insulting and of course denied that the
quinolones could possibly be to blame for their problems.  In fact this is  what
John Hopkins had to say after the Black Box Warnings were added last  year:

_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiwUE80v_oI_
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiwUE80v_oI)

Basically Paul Auwaerter, MD, MBA, of the John Hopkins School of  Medicine
is stating that the drugs cannot possibly cause all these  problems and
that the Black Box warnings not only were not needed but an over  reaction by
the FDA.  You can see him lying through his teeth in that video  and you just
want to grab his next tie and strangle his fat ass.

You are correct Hal that this Intern is far too naive at the moment.
Maybe if enough of us quinolone victims show up on their door step they will
fire Paul Auwaerter and try to help us.

When hell freezes over...and pig's sprout wings and start flying...

See?  I can just as naive as Jake's Intern as that ain't never gonna
happen in our lifetime even if every member of this forum showed up at John
Hopkins School of Medicine on the same day.  They'd Baker Act each and  every
one of us.

No offense Jake, but what your Intern is suggesting has been done many
times and the results have all been the same.  In fact a doctor who was
damaged by these drugs had tried that as well and they pretty much just laughed
at him.

But hope is hope, so what are you gonna do?  So go for it and see what
happens.

capt' dave




In a message dated 11/10/2009 9:31:30 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
reallynolie@... writes:

That  intern has probably been watching too much House, been smoking
something, or  is CraZy to think Hopkins has teams waiting around to do  that.

Hal


--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "columbiajake"  <jaker12@...> wrote:
>
> Feel free to vent, that was the  only thing that got me through this.  At
3 months out my life was a  living hell with over 30 ADRs.
>
> I had a relapse in September  after 2 years of just minor on and off
symptoms.  Felt feverish for  weeks, along with leg trembling and weakness, also
chills and headaches.   Thought I had Lyme or something worse, well, just
the FQs cycling again when I  never thought that could happen.
>
> I went to a new internist  and he believes me!  Told me I had a
disability because its been  impacting my quality of life for months now and
multiple
internal systems are  clearly haywired.  Suggested I go to Hopkins to have
a team of doctors  look at me and brainstorm my situation.  May be worth a
shot....versus  the hop to another specialist approach we all seem to take
and no one can put  all the clues together.
>
> Jake
>
> --- In  fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "katcradit" <katarinacradit@> wrote:
>  >
> >
> > I just need to vent real quick
> > i  feel ill right now...after feeling good in the morning then
depressed in the  evening now..
> > my belly hurts like heck, i feel feverish, my  muscles hurt in random
places and especially my back/hip, tired, my joints  click and i have little
muscle twitches everywhere.
> >
>  > oh and a little bit of tingling burning things in my hands and
arms...what could that be? is this CNS related or something else?
> >
> > i'm mostly concerned about my mental health and the clicking  popping
things though should I let my bone density get checked?
> > I  do take magnesium every day, a vitamin b complex and good bacteria
for my  gastro stuff as well as do VERY light yoga (I can HEAR my bones when
I do it  lol)...started this a few days ago...
> >
> > I must say  three months out I feel better though, my anxiety,
insomnia, restlessness, the  cognitive stuff, memory loss, disorientation, seems
to
have  improved...
> >
> > also I've noticed my teeth are getting  worse? noticed some stuff a few
days ago but guess its nothing a dental visit  couldnt help, could this be
related to the Cipro I took too?? Anybody had  this?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  what the heck
>  >
>




------------------------------------

Yahoo!  Groups Links







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Is there really no one who knows exactly what Levaquin does to the human brain?
Not a chemist from Johnson and Johnson? Not a University, private or public? Not
a neurologist, pharmacist, psychiatrist, or any other MD? Did we create this
drug and say to hell with the subsequent reported side effects, many life
threatening or debilitating? Not only are we cognizant of the effects and short
on informing the public, we don't even know how exactly it fries your very
cellular being! Alas, the Matrix of prescription drugs!

There must be someone out there, somewhere. In an office of a drug corporation's
headquarters. Or in a lab where the mechanisms of this poison are finally being
figured out, either by the makers who will share nothing of it, or by
researchers who will take years to publish it.

How can "CNS stimulation", written in fine print in a package insert, suffice to
define my inescapable head pressure, confusion, insomnia, palpitations,
tinnitus, and restlessness?

"I just don't think the Levaquin did this to you... Not one dose of Levaquin..."

So what you're really saying is that the Levaquin could have done this to me if
I were to have taken, say, three doses? Five doses? Hell, a week's worth? Who
are you to say that one wasn't enough, when I've talked to a woman who has had
Grand Mal seizures going on two decades post one dose of Floxin, while you
ignore the fact that I have clearly communicated to you that this onslaught of
absurd symptoms, specifically the abnormal mentation, began within two hours of
ingesting the pill?

How do I even measure improvement when, over 100 days in, I forget that I told
myself I was walking to another room of my house to get the phone? I walk to my
destination, and when I arrive I must pause and sort through my scrambled
eggs-for-brains and realize what I'm doing. How do I prove that my brain is not
working correctly, that these sentences are taking me forever to put together?

I can't imagine how many older folks have written these things off to old age or
other diseases. Maybe I would too if I were 50, or 60. However, I'm 19. 18 a few
months ago when I took that Godforsaken pill. Maybe doctors will start to
understand quinolones for what they are when they realize I was a perfectly
healthy young adult before this, not some questionable middle aged person who
could be plagued with a number of other potential problems. I know my body. If I
were "sick", I'd feel crappy for a few days, and get up one morning and be ready
to play soccer, go to class, or go out to a party with my friends. I'm not just
"sick", I'm physically altered at the core.

It's an awkward reality. By now, 2009, a wealth of anecdotal evidence of the
very things I am going through are scattered about on the internet. Less, but
still some in the medical literature. There's a black box warning for the
VISIBLE reaction to the drug. Some don't believe the other reactions, others do.
Those who do want to help, but have absolutely no idea how to. Do I sit around
and do nothing for what seems like an eternity until I feel some improvement?
(And I havn't felt improvement yet). Or do I plug along with my parents from
doctor to doctor, looking for Levaquin answers or the highly unlikely
possibility that something else is contributing to my health problems? Maybe the
latter will at least keep me distracted in the meantime.

Something is clearly not right when I was running miles every day the week
before that day, and now it's out of the question to do any exercise other than
"waking up" and walking around aimlessly to work and back in my zombie-like
state, so as to save myself the guaranteed diffuse muscle/tendon (and now)
burning pain afterward. What does it even matter, I don't have the energy to jog
down my street anyways.

I'd rather have a treatable form of cancer. I just want my brain back. My
tinnitus-less ears back. My normal hunger to eat 4 meals a day, instead of this
torn apart, gassy, damaged feeling in my stomach. Maybe this EEG will show
something. Yay! If so, now I can take an antipsychotic to quell the partial
seizures I've been having 24/7!

But I'm getting ahead of myself... I'm just imagining there's tangible evidence
of the damage I know has been done to my body, evidence that confirms my mere
illustrations of symptoms to countless doctors, some of whom won't even believe
that Levaquin is ninety-five percent chemical bullshit...

I hope you will go ahead with the Hopkins visit, certainly for your sake, but
also for the sake of all the other sufferers of FQed Up Syndrome.  Having a team
of docs at Hopkins acknowledging multiple system disruption from
flouroquinolones might be a real boon to a) raising awareness of fq damage,
b)research on fq damage some day yielding some real help for sufferers and c)
getting docs to stop lightly prescribing and mobilizing the FDA to get off its
dead ass relative to regulation.

a) Win.
b) win
c) win.

But only if you have the time, the inclination to endure a bunch more poking and
prodding, and the requisite insurance to cover it all.

No pressure.

On a more serious note, how are you feeling now?  I've been thinking about you
since you last posted.  Any relief from the latest onslaught?

Heidi



--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "columbiajake" <jaker12@...> wrote:
>
> Feel free to vent, that was the only thing that got me through this.  At 3
months out my life was a living hell with over 30 ADRs.
>
> I had a relapse in September after 2 years of just minor on and off symptoms. 
Felt feverish for weeks, along with leg trembling and weakness, also chills and
headaches.  Thought I had Lyme or something worse, well, just the FQs cycling
again when I never thought that could happen.
>
> I went to a new internist and he believes me!  Told me I had a disability
because its been impacting my quality of life for months now and multiple
internal systems are clearly haywired.  Suggested I go to Hopkins to have a team
of doctors look at me and brainstorm my situation.  May be worth a
shot....versus the hop to another specialist approach we all seem to take and no
one can put all the clues together.
>
> Jake
>
> --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "katcradit" <katarinacradit@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I just need to vent real quick
> > i feel ill right now...after feeling good in the morning then depressed in
the evening now..
> > my belly hurts like heck, i feel feverish, my muscles hurt in random places
and especially my back/hip, tired, my joints click and i have little muscle
twitches everywhere.
> >
> > oh and a little bit of tingling burning things in my hands and arms...what
could that be? is this CNS related or something else?
> >
> > i'm mostly concerned about my mental health and the clicking popping things
though should I let my bone density get checked?
> > I do take magnesium every day, a vitamin b complex and good bacteria for my
gastro stuff as well as do VERY light yoga (I can HEAR my bones when I do it
lol)...started this a few days ago...
> >
> > I must say three months out I feel better though, my anxiety, insomnia,
restlessness, the cognitive stuff, memory loss, disorientation, seems to have
improved...
> >
> > also I've noticed my teeth are getting worse? noticed some stuff a few days
ago but guess its nothing a dental visit couldnt help, could this be related to
the Cipro I took too?? Anybody had this?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > what the heck
> >
>

Feel free to vent, that was the only thing that got me through this.  At 3
months out my life was a living hell with over 30 ADRs.

I had a relapse in September after 2 years of just minor on and off symptoms. 
Felt feverish for weeks, along with leg trembling and weakness, also chills and
headaches.  Thought I had Lyme or something worse, well, just the FQs cycling
again when I never thought that could happen.

I went to a new internist and he believes me!  Told me I had a disability
because its been impacting my quality of life for months now and multiple
internal systems are clearly haywired.  Suggested I go to Hopkins to have a team
of doctors look at me and brainstorm my situation.  May be worth a
shot....versus the hop to another specialist approach we all seem to take and no
one can put all the clues together.

Jake

--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "katcradit" <katarinacradit@...> wrote:
>
>
> I just need to vent real quick
> i feel ill right now...after feeling good in the morning then depressed in the
evening now..
> my belly hurts like heck, i feel feverish, my muscles hurt in random places
and especially my back/hip, tired, my joints click and i have little muscle
twitches everywhere.
>
> oh and a little bit of tingling burning things in my hands and arms...what
could that be? is this CNS related or something else?
>
> i'm mostly concerned about my mental health and the clicking popping things
though should I let my bone density get checked?
> I do take magnesium every day, a vitamin b complex and good bacteria for my
gastro stuff as well as do VERY light yoga (I can HEAR my bones when I do it
lol)...started this a few days ago...
>
> I must say three months out I feel better though, my anxiety, insomnia,
restlessness, the cognitive stuff, memory loss, disorientation, seems to have
improved...
>
> also I've noticed my teeth are getting worse? noticed some stuff a few days
ago but guess its nothing a dental visit couldnt help, could this be related to
the Cipro I took too?? Anybody had this?
>
>
>
>
> what the heck
>

Hi Capn Dave,
Thanks for you reply and for not scaring me with a spooky story.  My own
quinolone nightmares are spooky enough!  I'm just stunned by all of this. 
Incredulous.  Shocked. Appalled. How can this drug possibly be legal and so
commonly doled out?  It seems there are just two types of doctors and health
professionals: those who know NOT to prescribe Levaquin for anything but severe,
life-threatening illnesses, and those who give it out like candy.  I believe
most doctors fall into the former group, but it's those others---influenced and
convinced by sleazy drug reps that cause so much pain.

To complicate my story, my own father, a doctor that falls into the latter
category, actually gave me the Levaquin!!!  If you think what this garbage did
to my body is bad, you can imagine what it did to my remaining shred of a
relationship with Pops. Um, hello therapy???!!!

Anyway, thanks so much for running this site. You must hear the same story over
and over; if it weren't here, I'd been even crazier than I already feel!
Best, Ariella

--- On Tue, 11/10/09, Fqresearch@... <Fqresearch@...> wrote:

From: Fqresearch@... <Fqresearch@...>
Subject: Re: [fqtoxicity] doctors starting to get on my nerves (agh! so @#$
literally!)
To: fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 5:19 AM







 









       Ariella



Don't freak out about me being on the board so long.  I am the owner  of

it.  So my participation is kinda mandatory.  Additionally I am the  Director

of the Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Research Foundation and as such I have  been

quite active in regards to all of the medical and legal issues we all face

here since 1999.



As far as my story goes it is considered by some to be one of the worse and

  I really don't like talking about it much.  Seems it scares the  children.

  :)



But yes there has been a tremendous amount of improvement over the years

for me, so do not lose hope.  You are just beginning your journey here and

time will only tell how long it may end up being.



The nerve punch biopsy is usually ordered through John Hopkins and yes this

  is something your neurologist can arrange for you.



As far as any advice I may have to offer it is very basic.  First do  NOT

freak out.  This too shall pass.  Secondly do NOT drive yourself  crazy

looking for a cure.  One does NOT exist.  The best you can hope  for is to treat

the symptoms until your body heals itself.  There are no  vitamins,

minerals, herbs, etc., that are going to make any kind  real difference.  What
works

for one is a disaster in the making for  another.  More than likely you

will find it to be a wasted effort trying to  educate your physician as well,

so expect that to be a major part of this crap  you now have to deal with.



But most important of all......... ...do NOT sweat the small stuff.

Celebrate your good days, and try to forget your bad ones.  In the days to  come

you will have both.  Expect it and deal with it any way you can.   As far as

your dry eyes go you can treat this with Tears Natural eye drops that  you

can buy off the shelf at Wal Mart.  HIghly recommend this to any member  who

has this adr.  Additionally a lot of eye doctors will temporarily plug  your

tear ducts to help keep the eyes moist as well.



This is a five second painless procedure so you may want to check that out

as well.  Normally your eyes produce too much tears and they drain through

these ducts into your throat.  With dry eyes you are producing too little

tears.  So plugging the ducts allow what tears you do produce to remain on

your eyes.



capt' dave





In a message dated 11/9/2009 3:00:00 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

frankaa7@yahoo. com writes:



thanks,  capn. Is the nerve punch something most neurologists would agree

to  do?



Also,, I don't know your story: has there been any improvement in a

decade? It's frightening to me that you're still on this board after so  long.

any thoughts, advice, 1 month post and at times---especially when  I wake up

every night at 4 a.m. with dry eye and foot pain, flipping  out.



-Ariella



--- On Mon, 11/9/09, Fqresearch@aol. com  <Fqresearch@aol. com> wrote:



From: Fqresearch@aol. com  <Fqresearch@aol. com>

Subject: Re: [fqtoxicity] doctors starting to  get on my nerves (agh! so

@#$ literally!)

To:  fqtoxicity@yahoogro ups.com

Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 3:04  AM



The larger blood cells may be a condition known as  macrocytic anemia.



Mainly caused by vitamin b-12  deficiencies.  Funny you should mention this

  as



I just got  my latest labs back and they show the same thing, just like

they



have every year since 1995.  My MCV and MCH levels are still high  as  well



as my being b-12 deficient (which we already knew anyhow  since 1995).   So



in this regard the levels have remained  abnormal for over fourteen years



now.  My glucose is high  (pre-diabetic) which again has not changed over

the



years.



But the latest development is that my Amylase  and Lipase serum levels are



going through the roof.  Which  is indicative of pancreatitis or  decreased



kidney  function.  So yeah, I am quite familiar with the Deer  caught in

the



headlights look from the physicians if I dare suggest that this   has

anything



to do with the quinolones ten years after the fact.   Even  though I have



had a history of pancreatic attacks as well  as kidney  problems over the

past



decade. (post  quinolones)



As far as testing goes you are pretty much pissing  in the wind.  But  if



you insist for your own peace of mind  then have a full CBC and metabolic



panel done, as well as check  your kidney and liver functions.  MRI's, CAT



Scans,  Ultrasounds, and X-rays rarely reveal much of anything, but if you

are



having joint problems they may show some tendon or cartilage  damage.  A

skin



punch biopsy will show any nerve  damage.  But other than this there

really



isn't much else  to be checked.



capt' dave



In a message  dated 11/8/2009 4:27:34 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,



frankaa7@yahoo. com writes:



Okay,  I'm starting to  see what everyone has already referred to--that



glazed,  dubious,  slightly patronizing look that oozes from the doctors

when you



tell  them that you were totally normal three days before you  took this



drug and  then your life came crashing to a halt  immediately

post-Levaquin.



That  said, I would like to  request tests to see if there is anything else



that  could  possibly be causing this stuff, and if not, run tests to



evaluate  my  overall body health (liver, kidney, muscles, etc.)

post-floxing.



Besides a regular hemogram, what tests did you  have done  to assess organ



function or damage?  I'm going to  have to (as someone  else put it) stick

my



face into my PCP's  face and butt heads with her until  she listens and



agrees.   She has been decidedly unhelpful.  The  neurologist has agreed to

do  an



MRI for the leg weakness and pains; I have no  idea what kind  should be



done.  I've read that nerve damage doesn't  always  show up.



If you did have bloodwork, did anything odd show  up?  Initially, mine



showed low RBC and WBC, as well as increased  Red cell size.  I'm curious

to know



how things look a month  later.



Hope you guys are  all hanging in there.  4  weeks, 3 days......the longest



month of my   life.



-Ariella



[Non-text  portions of this message  have been  removed]



------------ --------- ---------  ------



Yahoo!  Groups Links



[Non-text  portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]



------------ --------- --------- ------



Yahoo!  Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I had two root canals since getting floxed.  First problems in 10 years.  I know
mine were caused by flox and my dentist, a real pro, believes me.

Hal

--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, Fqresearch@... wrote:
>
> also I've noticed my teeth are getting worse? noticed some stuff a few days
>  ago but guess its nothing a dental visit couldnt help, could this be
> related to  the Cipro I took too?? Anybody had this?
>
> Yes, dental issues are yet another problem we all have to deal with.
> Currently spending over forty thousand dollars over the past five  years on
> dental work compliments of these drugs from hell.  Calcified  all the nerves
in
> my teeth and killed them all.  Resulted in having dozens  of root canals,
> titanium pins, and having every tooth capped or crowned.   So if you are
> having dental issues don't screw around.  Get to a dentist  and have it
treated
> asap.
>
> The clicking is just air in the cartilage and will go away in time.
> Nothing to be concerned about for the most part.
>
> capt' dave
>
>
> In a message dated 11/9/2009 8:43:16 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> katarinacradit@... writes:
>
>
> I  just need to vent real quick
> i feel ill right now...after feeling good in  the morning then depressed in
> the evening now..
> my belly hurts like heck, i  feel feverish, my muscles hurt in random
> places and especially my back/hip,  tired, my joints click and i have little
> muscle twitches everywhere.
>
> oh and a little bit of tingling burning things in my hands and  arms...what
> could that be? is this CNS related or something else?
>
> i'm  mostly concerned about my mental health and the clicking popping
> things though  should I let my bone density get checked?
> I do take magnesium every day, a  vitamin b complex and good bacteria for
> my gastro stuff as well as do VERY  light yoga (I can HEAR my bones when I do
> it lol)...started this a few days  ago...
>
> I must say three months out I feel better though, my anxiety,  insomnia,
> restlessness, the cognitive stuff, memory loss, disorientation,  seems to have
> improved...
>
> also I've noticed my teeth are getting worse?  noticed some stuff a few
> days ago but guess its nothing a dental visit couldnt  help, could this be
> related to the Cipro I took too?? Anybody had  this?
>
>
>
>
> what the  heck
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo!  Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

also I've noticed my teeth are getting worse? noticed some stuff a few days
  ago but guess its nothing a dental visit couldnt help, could this be
related to  the Cipro I took too?? Anybody had this?

Yes, dental issues are yet another problem we all have to deal with.
Currently spending over forty thousand dollars over the past five  years on
dental work compliments of these drugs from hell.  Calcified  all the nerves in
my teeth and killed them all.  Resulted in having dozens  of root canals,
titanium pins, and having every tooth capped or crowned.   So if you are
having dental issues don't screw around.  Get to a dentist  and have it treated
asap.

The clicking is just air in the cartilage and will go away in time.
Nothing to be concerned about for the most part.

capt' dave


In a message dated 11/9/2009 8:43:16 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
katarinacradit@... writes:


I  just need to vent real quick
i feel ill right now...after feeling good in  the morning then depressed in
the evening now..
my belly hurts like heck, i  feel feverish, my muscles hurt in random
places and especially my back/hip,  tired, my joints click and i have little
muscle twitches everywhere.

oh and a little bit of tingling burning things in my hands and  arms...what
could that be? is this CNS related or something else?

i'm  mostly concerned about my mental health and the clicking popping
things though  should I let my bone density get checked?
I do take magnesium every day, a  vitamin b complex and good bacteria for
my gastro stuff as well as do VERY  light yoga (I can HEAR my bones when I do
it lol)...started this a few days  ago...

I must say three months out I feel better though, my anxiety,  insomnia,
restlessness, the cognitive stuff, memory loss, disorientation,  seems to have
improved...

also I've noticed my teeth are getting worse?  noticed some stuff a few
days ago but guess its nothing a dental visit couldnt  help, could this be
related to the Cipro I took too?? Anybody had  this?




what the  heck






------------------------------------

Yahoo!  Groups Links







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ariella

Don't freak out about me being on the board so long.  I am the owner  of
it.  So my participation is kinda mandatory.  Additionally I am the  Director
of the Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Research Foundation and as such I have  been
quite active in regards to all of the medical and legal issues we all face
here since 1999.

As far as my story goes it is considered by some to be one of the worse and
  I really don't like talking about it much.  Seems it scares the  children.
  :)

But yes there has been a tremendous amount of improvement over the years
for me, so do not lose hope.  You are just beginning your journey here and
time will only tell how long it may end up being.

The nerve punch biopsy is usually ordered through John Hopkins and yes this
  is something your neurologist can arrange for you.

As far as any advice I may have to offer it is very basic.  First do  NOT
freak out.  This too shall pass.  Secondly do NOT drive yourself  crazy
looking for a cure.  One does NOT exist.  The best you can hope  for is to treat
the symptoms until your body heals itself.  There are no  vitamins,
minerals, herbs, etc., that are going to make any kind  real difference.  What
works
for one is a disaster in the making for  another.  More than likely you
will find it to be a wasted effort trying to  educate your physician as well,
so expect that to be a major part of this crap  you now have to deal with.

But most important of all............do NOT sweat the small stuff.
Celebrate your good days, and try to forget your bad ones.  In the days to  come
you will have both.  Expect it and deal with it any way you can.   As far as
your dry eyes go you can treat this with Tears Natural eye drops that  you
can buy off the shelf at Wal Mart.  HIghly recommend this to any member  who
has this adr.  Additionally a lot of eye doctors will temporarily plug  your
tear ducts to help keep the eyes moist as well.

This is a five second painless procedure so you may want to check that out
as well.  Normally your eyes produce too much tears and they drain through
these ducts into your throat.  With dry eyes you are producing too little
tears.  So plugging the ducts allow what tears you do produce to remain on
your eyes.

capt' dave


In a message dated 11/9/2009 3:00:00 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
frankaa7@... writes:

thanks,  capn. Is the nerve punch something most neurologists would agree
to  do?

Also,, I don't know your story: has there been any improvement in a
decade? It's frightening to me that you're still on this board after so  long.
any thoughts, advice, 1 month post and at times---especially when  I wake up
every night at 4 a.m. with dry eye and foot pain, flipping  out.

-Ariella

--- On Mon, 11/9/09, Fqresearch@...  <Fqresearch@...> wrote:

From: Fqresearch@...  <Fqresearch@...>
Subject: Re: [fqtoxicity] doctors starting to  get on my nerves (agh! so
@#$ literally!)
To:  fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 3:04  AM

















The larger blood cells may be a condition known as  macrocytic anemia.

Mainly caused by vitamin b-12  deficiencies.  Funny you should mention this
  as

I just got  my latest labs back and they show the same thing, just like
they

have every year since 1995.  My MCV and MCH levels are still high  as  well

as my being b-12 deficient (which we already knew anyhow  since 1995).   So

in this regard the levels have remained  abnormal for over fourteen years

now.  My glucose is high  (pre-diabetic) which again has not changed over
the

years.



But the latest development is that my Amylase  and Lipase serum levels are

going through the roof.  Which  is indicative of pancreatitis or  decreased

kidney  function.  So yeah, I am quite familiar with the Deer  caught in
the

headlights look from the physicians if I dare suggest that this   has
anything

to do with the quinolones ten years after the fact.   Even  though I have

had a history of pancreatic attacks as well  as kidney  problems over the
past

decade. (post  quinolones)



As far as testing goes you are pretty much pissing  in the wind.  But  if

you insist for your own peace of mind  then have a full CBC and metabolic

panel done, as well as check  your kidney and liver functions.  MRI's, CAT

Scans,  Ultrasounds, and X-rays rarely reveal much of anything, but if you
are

having joint problems they may show some tendon or cartilage  damage.  A
skin

punch biopsy will show any nerve  damage.  But other than this there
really

isn't much else  to be checked.



capt' dave





In a message  dated 11/8/2009 4:27:34 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

frankaa7@yahoo. com writes:



Okay,  I'm starting to  see what everyone has already referred to--that

glazed,  dubious,  slightly patronizing look that oozes from the doctors
when you

tell  them that you were totally normal three days before you  took this

drug and  then your life came crashing to a halt  immediately
post-Levaquin.



That  said, I would like to  request tests to see if there is anything else

that  could  possibly be causing this stuff, and if not, run tests to

evaluate  my  overall body health (liver, kidney, muscles, etc.)
post-floxing.



Besides a regular hemogram, what tests did you  have done  to assess organ

function or damage?  I'm going to  have to (as someone  else put it) stick
my

face into my PCP's  face and butt heads with her until  she listens and

agrees.   She has been decidedly unhelpful.  The  neurologist has agreed to
do  an

MRI for the leg weakness and pains; I have no  idea what kind  should be

done.  I've read that nerve damage doesn't  always  show up.



If you did have bloodwork, did anything odd show  up?  Initially, mine

showed low RBC and WBC, as well as increased  Red cell size.  I'm curious
to know

how things look a month  later.



Hope you guys are  all hanging in there.  4  weeks, 3 days......the longest

month of my   life.

-Ariella



[Non-text  portions of this message  have been  removed]



------------ --------- ---------  ------



Yahoo!  Groups Links



[Non-text  portions of this message have been removed]

























[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo!  Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I just need to vent real quick
i feel ill right now...after feeling good in the morning then depressed in the
evening now..
my belly hurts like heck, i feel feverish, my muscles hurt in random places and
especially my back/hip, tired, my joints click and i have little muscle twitches
everywhere.

oh and a little bit of tingling burning things in my hands and arms...what could
that be? is this CNS related or something else?

i'm mostly concerned about my mental health and the clicking popping things
though should I let my bone density get checked?
I do take magnesium every day, a vitamin b complex and good bacteria for my
gastro stuff as well as do VERY light yoga (I can HEAR my bones when I do it
lol)...started this a few days ago...

I must say three months out I feel better though, my anxiety, insomnia,
restlessness, the cognitive stuff, memory loss, disorientation, seems to have
improved...

also I've noticed my teeth are getting worse? noticed some stuff a few days ago
but guess its nothing a dental visit couldnt help, could this be related to the
Cipro I took too?? Anybody had this?




what the heck

well I just ate orange chicken a few hours ago with I'm sure soy and all kinds
of preservatives in it and I gotta say my belly really really hurts now...



muscle twitches too, pain in back and random but very light muscle pains and an
overall sick feeling...yay...time to really finally make that connection I
guess...ouchies....








--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "Hal F" <reallynolie@...> wrote:
>
> I get pain within hours of eating soy.  I could be active for days then it
occurs (mowing/yardwork, car work, etc).  The pain is very odd and similair each
time.  It can be in just a single joint, or with soy lecthin, all over joint
weirdness (pops, pinching, joint in extreme pain for no reason and goes away a
few days after stopped eating offending item).
>
> Hal
>
> --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, Fqresearch@ wrote:
> >
> > How are you telling that the pain is from the food and not actions u
> > performed around the same time as the food? :)
> >
> > If you repeat the food and not the actions and the same symptoms appear
> > then more than likely it is the food.  If you perform the actions at a
> > different time, absent of the food, and the same symptoms appear then bet 
on the
> > actions being the problem.
> >
> > capt' dave
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 11/8/2009 12:46:38 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> > tiffanym5902@ writes:
> >
> > How are  you telling that the pain is from the food and not actions u
> > performed around  the same time as the food? :)
> >
> > Tiffany
> >
> > On Nov 5, 2009, at 6:33  PM, "Hal F" <reallynolie@> wrote:
> >
> > Did you ever have any  soy intolarence caused by fluoroquinolones?
> >
> > Hal
> >
> > --- In  fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, Fqresearch@ wrote:
> >
> > The simplest thing to  do is just keep a food diary.  Anything that you
> > react to  eliminate from your diet.  No need to be buying antibiotic free
> > meat,
> > etc.  Just find out what causes you a problem and then try to  avoid  it.
> >
> > Not everybody has issues with soy, meats,  etc.  And nobody needs to be
> > that restrictive with their diet  unless these food products have proven to
> > be
> > an  issue by repeated  exposures.  Other than this just eat whatever you
> > feel
> > like and  not worry about it.  If it is a problem you will know soon enough
> >
> > and just not eat whatever that may of been for a while.
> >
> > Folks here  are needlessly focused on food for some reason and tend to be
> > over  cautious regarding these issues for the most part.  True, a few
> > members
> > have had issues with soy products.  But not everybody by  any  means.
> > Others have had problems with meat or poultry, but  again this is  far from
> > being
> > universal.
> >
> > As I suggested  keep a food diary for a month or two and see if any pattern
> >
> > emerges.  If it does then eliminate whatever may be causing the  problem
> > and
> > go from there.  This is the sane approach.
> >
> > Being  obsessed with your diet is not going to help in the least, (that is
> >
> > the insane part) and doing so may cause far more problems than it  will
> > solve.  Take the suggestions being made here by others  regarding your diet
> >  with
> > a huge dose of salt as well.  Not  everybody has these issues to begin
> > with
> > and those that do tend to  want to warn others who do not.  But this  is a
> > very individual  thing so trial and error is your best and sanest
> > approach.
> >
> > Personally I can now eat anything without having any issues  at all.
> > Including soy, meat, fish and poultry.  Even  turkey.  But then again I  am
> > a
> > vegetarian by proxy.
> >
> > Cows eat grass and I eat cows.  :)
> >
> > capt'  dave
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 11/5/2009 8:07:11 A.M. Pacific Standard  Time,
> > desertdweller49@ writes:
> >
> > I've  been lurking but  really need your wisdom.  I'm trying to avoid all
> > the   troublesome foods that have been mentioned, but am going nuts watching
> >
> > for  possible antibiotic and soy sources. I've been buying antibiotic  free
> > meat,  eggs, milk, butter, and eliminating anything with  "soy"-whatever
> > listed.
> > This  eliminates most salad dressing, breads,  etc.  Also eliminates any
> > product  made with regular milk  products and eggs (pasta, microwave
> > popcorn,
> > basically  all  restaurant food). Are you all that restictive in your
> > diets? Do
> > you  eat  ever eat out? Is Soy sauce okay? What about soybean oil used in
> > many prepared  foods?
> > I've read that some chains, like Popeyes and  McDonalds, say they do  not
> > use meat that has been given antibiotics.  Also read that Perdus and Tyson
> > have banned broad antibiotic use in  their poultry products.
> > Do we believe  them?
> > I'm making Whole Foods  very wealthy, having trouble getting in more  than
> > 1200 calories a  day (although they are VERY healthy calories!)and my
> > husband
> > nuts.
> > How "normal" a life is   "safe?"
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo!   Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message  have been  removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo!  Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups  Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

I get pain within hours of eating soy.  I could be active for days then it
occurs (mowing/yardwork, car work, etc).  The pain is very odd and similair each
time.  It can be in just a single joint, or with soy lecthin, all over joint
weirdness (pops, pinching, joint in extreme pain for no reason and goes away a
few days after stopped eating offending item).

Hal

--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, Fqresearch@... wrote:
>
> How are you telling that the pain is from the food and not actions u
> performed around the same time as the food? :)
>
> If you repeat the food and not the actions and the same symptoms appear
> then more than likely it is the food.  If you perform the actions at a
> different time, absent of the food, and the same symptoms appear then bet  on
the
> actions being the problem.
>
> capt' dave
>
>
> In a message dated 11/8/2009 12:46:38 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> tiffanym5902@... writes:
>
> How are  you telling that the pain is from the food and not actions u
> performed around  the same time as the food? :)
>
> Tiffany
>
> On Nov 5, 2009, at 6:33  PM, "Hal F" <reallynolie@...> wrote:
>
> Did you ever have any  soy intolarence caused by fluoroquinolones?
>
> Hal
>
> --- In  fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, Fqresearch@ wrote:
>
> The simplest thing to  do is just keep a food diary.  Anything that you
> react to  eliminate from your diet.  No need to be buying antibiotic free
> meat,
> etc.  Just find out what causes you a problem and then try to  avoid  it.
>
> Not everybody has issues with soy, meats,  etc.  And nobody needs to be
> that restrictive with their diet  unless these food products have proven to
> be
> an  issue by repeated  exposures.  Other than this just eat whatever you
> feel
> like and  not worry about it.  If it is a problem you will know soon enough
>
> and just not eat whatever that may of been for a while.
>
> Folks here  are needlessly focused on food for some reason and tend to be
> over  cautious regarding these issues for the most part.  True, a few
> members
> have had issues with soy products.  But not everybody by  any  means.
> Others have had problems with meat or poultry, but  again this is  far from
> being
> universal.
>
> As I suggested  keep a food diary for a month or two and see if any pattern
>
> emerges.  If it does then eliminate whatever may be causing the  problem
> and
> go from there.  This is the sane approach.
>
> Being  obsessed with your diet is not going to help in the least, (that is
>
> the insane part) and doing so may cause far more problems than it  will
> solve.  Take the suggestions being made here by others  regarding your diet
>  with
> a huge dose of salt as well.  Not  everybody has these issues to begin
> with
> and those that do tend to  want to warn others who do not.  But this  is a
> very individual  thing so trial and error is your best and sanest
> approach.
>
> Personally I can now eat anything without having any issues  at all.
> Including soy, meat, fish and poultry.  Even  turkey.  But then again I  am
> a
> vegetarian by proxy.
>
> Cows eat grass and I eat cows.  :)
>
> capt'  dave
>
>
> In a message dated 11/5/2009 8:07:11 A.M. Pacific Standard  Time,
> desertdweller49@ writes:
>
> I've  been lurking but  really need your wisdom.  I'm trying to avoid all
> the   troublesome foods that have been mentioned, but am going nuts watching
>
> for  possible antibiotic and soy sources. I've been buying antibiotic  free
> meat,  eggs, milk, butter, and eliminating anything with  "soy"-whatever
> listed.
> This  eliminates most salad dressing, breads,  etc.  Also eliminates any
> product  made with regular milk  products and eggs (pasta, microwave
> popcorn,
> basically  all  restaurant food). Are you all that restictive in your
> diets? Do
> you  eat  ever eat out? Is Soy sauce okay? What about soybean oil used in
> many prepared  foods?
> I've read that some chains, like Popeyes and  McDonalds, say they do  not
> use meat that has been given antibiotics.  Also read that Perdus and Tyson
> have banned broad antibiotic use in  their poultry products.
> Do we believe  them?
> I'm making Whole Foods  very wealthy, having trouble getting in more  than
> 1200 calories a  day (although they are VERY healthy calories!)and my
> husband
> nuts.
> How "normal" a life is   "safe?"
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo!   Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message  have been  removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo!  Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups  Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

if you have access to a juicer, or a juicebar:
 
nature's gatorade::

apple/celery juice is the natural version of gatorade;
 
in the sense of sodium/potassium/sweet content...tastes good, celery has
naturally occurring sodium, apple has the fruit sugar.
 
or eat apples and celery everyday as part of a healthy diet
 
just a thought:)
 
keep healing stay positive:)

--- On Sat, 11/7/09, kahoona <kahoona@...> wrote:


From: kahoona <kahoona@...>
Subject: [fqtoxicity] Re: Extreme Thirst
To: fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:39 PM


 



Well...Gatorade is out for me. I went to buy some and looked at the label... 7
grams of sugar per 8oz serving?!! That would be 28 grams of sugar if I drank the
whole thing. NO CAN DO!

There has to be something better that is full of electrolytes and not just sugar
and salt.

Gary

--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogro ups.com, "Hal F" <reallynolie@ ...> wrote:
>
> Not sure. I've come a long way to finally being able to eat sugar with out
causing bad nerve pain. I can pretty much eat any amount of sugar anymore
without fear of pain or more eye floaters.
>
> Hal
>
> --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogro ups.com, "kahoona" <kahoona@> wrote:
> >
> > This reminds me....HAL, can you tell me how much sugar is in 16oz of
Gatorade? Thanks. Gary
> >
> > --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogro ups.com, "tymesharing" <newslists@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks so much to Gary, Hal and capt' dave for responding! You all are
such a great support to me. I am in the midst of having lots of lab tests done.
I promise, this one, I won't blow off. I've ignored worsening neurological
symptoms and will have that checked out too. I really hate doctors, but
sometimes there aren't any other choices.
> > >
> > > About the Gatorade - That won't work so well for me because of the sugars
and dyes, but I started to add trace mineral drops and salt (not lots, just
some) to all the water I drink based upon your suggestion and it does seem to
help. Now I notice that when I drink water without the minerals and salt, I feel
more thirsty afterwards. I drink only reverse-osmosis water or fluoride filtered
water because I am still reacting to the fluoride. This automatically makes the
water deficient in minerals.
> > >
> > > Sue
> > >
> >
>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Don"t forget to go to Askapatient.Com and help direct the newbies to these sites
; many are confused and don"t know whats going on with them and how to find
their way to the Flox-sites .I try to at least once a week and many leave their
e-mails asking for help .
  I"ve met a lot of folks this way ,and they just keep a coming ....Type in
either Cipro or Levaquin or Avelox , you will also be astounded by all the
stories (not like you haven't heard or lived them yourselves).
I don't come here much anymore because I don't feel like I need it like I use to
, but I do care about the newbies .... ~Eric~

I usually buy the sachets of rehydration powders (meant for people with
diharrea) which you can buy anywhere.  Here in the UK they are called Dioralyte.
Mix with 200ml of plain water. Sachet contains 3.58g dextrose, 0.47g sodium
chloride, 0.30g potassium chloride, 0.39g sodium citrate dihydrate and 0.12g
citric acid, and a small amount of sweetener,


From: kahoona
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 4:41 AM
To: fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fqtoxicity] Re: Extreme Thirst



Electrolytes are the levels of sodium, potassium, chloride, and carbon dioxide
in your blood. Maybe I should just get an electrolyte
panel to check them.

--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "Hal F" <reallynolie@...> wrote:
>
> The electrolytes are salts.
>
> Hal
>
> --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "kahoona" <kahoona@> wrote:
> >
> > Well...Gatorade is out for me. I went to buy some and looked at the label...
7 grams of sugar per 8oz serving?!! That would be 28 grams of sugar if I drank
the whole thing. NO CAN DO!
> >
> > There has to be something better that is full of electrolytes and not just
sugar and salt.
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "Hal F" <reallynolie@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Not sure. I've come a long way to finally being able to eat sugar with out
causing bad nerve pain. I can pretty much eat any amount of sugar anymore
without fear of pain or more eye floaters.
> > >
> > > Hal
> > >
> > > --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "kahoona" <kahoona@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > This reminds me....HAL, can you tell me how much sugar is in 16oz of
Gatorade? Thanks. Gary
> > > >
> > > > --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "tymesharing" <newslists@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks so much to Gary, Hal and capt' dave for responding! You all are
such a great support to me. I am in the midst of having lots of lab tests done.
I promise, this one, I won't blow off. I've ignored worsening neurological
symptoms and will have that checked out too. I really hate doctors, but
sometimes there aren't any other choices.
> > > > >
> > > > > About the Gatorade - That won't work so well for me because of the
sugars and dyes, but I started to add trace mineral drops and salt (not lots,
just some) to all the water I drink based upon your suggestion and it does seem
to help. Now I notice that when I drink water without the minerals and salt, I
feel more thirsty afterwards. I drink only reverse-osmosis water or fluoride
filtered water because I am still reacting to the fluoride. This automatically
makes the water deficient in minerals.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sue
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Soy Lethicin terrible!!! Absolutely terrible!


-----Original Message-----
From: Hal F <reallynolie@...>
To: fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, Nov 8, 2009 4:03 pm
Subject: [fqtoxicity] Re: What do you guys eat? Need Help!






For me soy is a Night and Day difference. Today, after two days of completely
soy free, I've been working on my cars and running around, almost completely
pain free. Days that I get soy all my joints are acky and some tendons feel like
they are ready to break (and probably are). Night and day.

Hal

--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, Tiffany <tiffanym5902@...> wrote:
>
> How are you telling that the pain is from the food and not actions u performed
around the same time as the food? :)
>
> Tiffany
>
> On Nov 5, 2009, at 6:33 PM, "Hal F" <reallynolie@...> wrote:
>
> Did you ever have any soy intolarence caused by fluoroquinolones?
>
> Hal
>
> --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, Fqresearch@ wrote:
>
> The simplest thing to do is just keep a food diary. Anything that you
> react to eliminate from your diet. No need to be buying antibiotic free meat,
> etc. Just find out what causes you a problem and then try to avoid it.
>
> Not everybody has issues with soy, meats, etc. And nobody needs to be
> that restrictive with their diet unless these food products have proven to be
> an issue by repeated exposures. Other than this just eat whatever you feel
> like and not worry about it. If it is a problem you will know soon enough
> and just not eat whatever that may of been for a while.
>
> Folks here are needlessly focused on food for some reason and tend to be
> over cautious regarding these issues for the most part. True, a few members
> have had issues with soy products. But not everybody by any means.
> Others have had problems with meat or poultry, but again this is far from
being
> universal.
>
> As I suggested keep a food diary for a month or two and see if any pattern
> emerges. If it does then eliminate whatever may be causing the problem and
> go from there. This is the sane approach.
>
> Being obsessed with your diet is not going to help in the least, (that is
> the insane part) and doing so may cause far more problems than it will
> solve. Take the suggestions being made here by others regarding your diet with
> a huge dose of salt as well. Not everybody has these issues to begin with
> and those that do tend to want to warn others who do not. But this is a
> very individual thing so trial and error is your best and sanest approach.
>
> Personally I can now eat anything without having any issues at all.
> Including soy, meat, fish and poultry. Even turkey. But then again I am a
> vegetarian by proxy.
>
> Cows eat grass and I eat cows. :)
>
> capt' dave
>
>
> In a message dated 11/5/2009 8:07:11 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> desertdweller49@ writes:
>
> I've been lurking but really need your wisdom. I'm trying to avoid all
> the troublesome foods that have been mentioned, but am going nuts watching
> for possible antibiotic and soy sources. I've been buying antibiotic free
> meat, eggs, milk, butter, and eliminating anything with "soy"-whatever listed.
> This eliminates most salad dressing, breads, etc. Also eliminates any
> product made with regular milk products and eggs (pasta, microwave popcorn,
> basically all restaurant food). Are you all that restictive in your diets? Do
> you eat ever eat out? Is Soy sauce okay? What about soybean oil used in
> many prepared foods?
> I've read that some chains, like Popeyes and McDonalds, say they do not
> use meat that has been given antibiotics. Also read that Perdus and Tyson
> have banned broad antibiotic use in their poultry products.
> Do we believe them?
> I'm making Whole Foods very wealthy, having trouble getting in more than
> 1200 calories a day (although they are VERY healthy calories!)and my husband
> nuts.
> How "normal" a life is "safe?"
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

thanks, capn. Is the nerve punch something most neurologists would agree to do?

Also,, I don't know your story: has there been any improvement in a decade? It's
frightening to me that you're still on this board after so long.  any thoughts,
advice, 1 month post and at times---especially when I wake up every night at 4
a.m. with dry eye and foot pain, flipping out.

-Ariella

--- On Mon, 11/9/09, Fqresearch@... <Fqresearch@...> wrote:

From: Fqresearch@... <Fqresearch@...>
Subject: Re: [fqtoxicity] doctors starting to get on my nerves (agh! so @#$
literally!)
To: fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 3:04 AM







 









       The larger blood cells may be a condition known as macrocytic anemia.

Mainly caused by vitamin b-12 deficiencies.  Funny you should mention this  as

I just got my latest labs back and they show the same thing, just like they

have every year since 1995.  My MCV and MCH levels are still high as  well

as my being b-12 deficient (which we already knew anyhow since 1995).   So

in this regard the levels have remained abnormal for over fourteen years

now.  My glucose is high (pre-diabetic) which again has not changed over  the

years.



But the latest development is that my Amylase and Lipase serum levels are

going through the roof.  Which is indicative of pancreatitis or  decreased

kidney function.  So yeah, I am quite familiar with the Deer  caught in the

headlights look from the physicians if I dare suggest that this  has anything

to do with the quinolones ten years after the fact.  Even  though I have

had a history of pancreatic attacks as well as kidney  problems over the past

decade. (post quinolones)



As far as testing goes you are pretty much pissing in the wind.  But  if

you insist for your own peace of mind then have a full CBC and metabolic

panel done, as well as check your kidney and liver functions.  MRI's, CAT

Scans, Ultrasounds, and X-rays rarely reveal much of anything, but if you are

having joint problems they may show some tendon or cartilage damage.  A  skin

punch biopsy will show any nerve damage.  But other than this there  really

isn't much else to be checked.



capt' dave





In a message dated 11/8/2009 4:27:34 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

frankaa7@yahoo. com writes:



Okay,  I'm starting to see what everyone has already referred to--that

glazed,  dubious, slightly patronizing look that oozes from the doctors when you

tell  them that you were totally normal three days before you took this

drug and  then your life came crashing to a halt immediately post-Levaquin.



That  said, I would like to request tests to see if there is anything else

that  could possibly be causing this stuff, and if not, run tests to

evaluate my  overall body health (liver, kidney, muscles, etc.)  post-floxing.



Besides a regular hemogram, what tests did you have done  to assess organ

function or damage?  I'm going to have to (as someone  else put it) stick my

face into my PCP's face and butt heads with her until  she listens and

agrees.  She has been decidedly unhelpful.  The  neurologist has agreed to do an

MRI for the leg weakness and pains; I have no  idea what kind should be

done.  I've read that nerve damage doesn't  always show up.



If you did have bloodwork, did anything odd show up?  Initially, mine

showed low RBC and WBC, as well as increased Red cell size.  I'm curious to know

how things look a month later.



Hope you guys are  all hanging in there.  4 weeks, 3 days......the longest

month of my  life.

-Ariella



[Non-text  portions of this message have been  removed]



------------ --------- --------- ------



Yahoo!  Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Starting week 13 of floxing and my calves have gotten unbearably painful.  It
feels like they won't hold me up if I walk too far (and by too far I mean more
than a few minutes).  I've had spells of weakness and achiness throughout the
process, but this week its really bad.  I've tried massaging them, I've tried
the heating pad, tonight I rubbed Vicks onto them.  Nothing helps and they're
getting worse.  They're tight, stiff, and even laying in bed hurts.  Any
suggestions?  It scares me to think they might get bad enough to keep me from
walking.