Wow.

Hal

--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, Fqresearch@... wrote:
>
> I wish it was that easy Hal.  What you have to is go through the  reference
> list for the article (200+ references) and click on each one that has  a
> link.  If the link is broken you have to track it down and find the new  URL.
> That is the easy part.  But replacing it is not a cut and paste  job, it is
> a BITCH to do.  Wikipedia uses inline references, so it would  look
> something like this when you go to make that kind of  change:
>
>
> Ciprofloxacin is a [[broad-spectrum antibiotic]] that is  active against
> both
> [[Gram-positive]] and [[Gram-negative]] bacteria.   It functions by
> inhibiting [[DNA gyrase]], a type II [[topoisomerase]], and  topoisomerase
> iv<ref>{{cite journal |author=Drlica K, Zhao X |title=DNA  gyrase,
topoisomerase IV,
> and the 4-quinolones |journal=Microbiol Mol Biol Rev.  |volume=61 |issue=3
> |pages=377â€"92 |year=1997 |month=Sep |pmid=9293187  |pmc=232616
> |url=http://mmbr.asm.org/cgi/pmidlookup?view=long&pmid=9293187 
|day=01}}</ref>, which is
> an enzyme necessary to separate replicated DNA,  thereby inhibiting cell
> division.
> The fluoroquinolones interfere with DNA  replication by inhibiting an
> enzyme complex called DNA gyrase. This can also  affect mammalian cell
> replication. In particular, some congeners of this drug  family display high
activity
> not only against bacterial topoisomerases, but also  against eukaryotic
> topoisomerases and are toxic to cultured mammalian cells and  in vivo tumor
> models. Although the quinolone is highly toxic to mammalian cells  in culture,
> its mechanism of cytotoxic action is not known. Quinolone induced  DNA damage
> was first reported in 1986 (Hussy et al.)<ref>Hussy P, Maass G,  Tümmler B,
> Grosse F, Schomburg U (June 1986). "Effect of 4-quinolones and  novobiocin
> on calf thymus DNA polymerase alpha primase complex, topoisomerases I  and
> II, and growth of mammalian lymphoblasts". Antimicrob. Agents Chemother. 29
> (6): 1073â€"8. PMID 3015015. PMC: 180502.
> _http://aac.asm.org/cgi/reprint/29/6/1073.pdf.</ref_
(http://aac.asm.org/cgi/reprint/29/6/1073.pdf.</ref) >.
>
> And you then have to find the bad reference within this text and then
> replace it.  One space or letter out of order and you are screwed.   The
> references are keyed in using <ref> the reference </ref>  commands.  Nowhere
near
> as easy as it looks.  But the offer is  certainly appreciated.  Here is an
> example of what I am talking about, in  the code I write to create the article
> a link looks like  this:
>
> <ref>{{cite journal |author=Drlica K, Zhao X |title=DNA  gyrase,
> topoisomerase IV, and the 4-quinolones |journal=Microbiol Mol Biol Rev. 
|volume=61
> |issue=3 |pages=377â€"92 |year=1997 |month=Sep |pmid=9293187  |pmc=232616
> |url=http://mmbr.asm.org/cgi/pmidlookup?view=long&pmid=9293187 
|day=01}}</ref>
>
> Where as in the reference list this is what YOU  see:
>
> Drlica K, Zhao X (01 Sep 1997). "DNA gyrase, topoisomerase IV, and  the
> 4-quinolones". Microbiol Mol Biol Rev. 61 (3): 377â€"92. PMID 9293187. PMC:
> 232616.
>
> So just finding the URL doesn't get it.  You still have to format it  and
> place it within the document where it belongs.
>
> capt' dave
>
> In a message dated 7/2/2009 11:45:53 P.M. Pacific  Daylight Time,
> reallynolie@... writes:
> If I can help send me some  work.  Not sure what it takes other than going
> through the FDA site and  matching the original doc to the same doc on a new
> link and sending you the new  url.
>
> Hal
>
> --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, Fqresearch@  wrote:
> >
> > Most, if not all, of those documents are on my  server.  I have  copies
> of
> > the originals.   So they  are not lost to us even if the FDA  were to
> delete
> > them  completely.  The problem is that the head honchos over  at
> wikipedia
> > frown upon me linking back to my site.  They seem to think   that it is a
> form
> > of self promotion.  So what I have to do now is  check  each and every
> > reference in those articles that link to the  FDA site and then  update
> them to
> > these new addresses.  Which  is going to be a royal pain in  .... but it
> can be
> > done.  It  will take weeks to do as I am doing so many  things at once.
> So I
> > have to fit that in when I can.
> >
> > It is a  constant hassle at wikipedia as I have to monitor all of those
> >  articles on a daily basis and undo any changes that are vandalism,  etc.
>   Those
> > edits that are legit, but I disagree with, I  have to discuss with the
> > editor making such changes and see if I  can convince them to see things
> from my
> > point of view.  As  such the articles are in a constant state of flux and
> I
> > have to  work my butt off to stop people from undoing all that work.  But
> if
> >  I can support my position with citations then I win these  arguments.
> When
> >  the links to my references disappear then  you know what hits the fan.
> So
> > I  end up like a one legged  cat in a room full of rocking chairs.
> >
> > Most of the time  when I am short tempered here on the forum it is
> usually
> > when I  am battling the medical community over at wikipedia.  But it is
> > worth the effort as the articles have the greatest impact possible as
> they are
> > linked to hundreds of thousands of medical sites.   So the word is
> getting
> > out to those that matter, and of course  those who are now threatened by
> this
> > are  fighting back tooth and  nail.  But there is nobody that I am not
> > willing to  go toe  to toe with to keep these articles exactly as I have
> written
> >  them.   But at times I do get a bit punch drunk from all the hits I
> have to
> > endure to  make this happen.  If that is what it  takes then that is
> exactly
> > what I  will do.
> >
> > Somebody, somewhere has to go to bat for you guys and gals, and for  the
> > moment it is I in the batter's box.
> >
> >  capt' dave
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 7/2/2009  4:38:49 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> > newslists@ writes:
> >
> > Hi Dave  - Thanks for your time and efforts in keeping these  important
> > links  "alive".  I have no idea how long it will  take you to update
> hundreds of
> > references - all I can say is  thank you.  (and I'd love to add some
> swear
> > words about the  FDA, but won't write them here, I'll just continue
> muttering
> >  them  to myself as I type.)
> >
> > Sue
> >
> > --- In   fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "davidtfull" <Fqresearch@>   wrote:
> > >
> > > The FDA has changed the locations for every  document  used as a
> reference
> > within the wikipedia articles that  was linked by to the  FDA site.
> Thereby
> > invalidating  hundreds of references.  I now have  to go back and change
> >  each and every one of these references to reflect these  new locations
> > manually.  I rather doubt that this was routine  housekeeping  on their
> part as only
> > the articles that related to the quinolone   class were moved recently.
> > >
> > > Looks like they are  engaging in  damage control once again.  They
> cannot
> > delete  these articles as that  would be destruction of evidence due to
> the
> > ongoing litigation.  But  nothing would prevent them from  moving them
> and
> > invalidating all of the links  found on the  Internet that makes
> reference to
> > them.
> > >
> > >  I've  never been one for conspiracy theories regarding these drugs but
> I
> > am  seriously reconsidering that view now.  Far too much is  going on
> > recently  for all of this to be coincidence.  Too  much information has
> disappeared
> > from the Internet, too many  sites have shut down, and now this recent
> > action  by the FDA who  for the most part has failed to update thier site
> with
> > anything   relevant for years.  Now all of a sudden they are archiving
> anything
> > that  has to do with the quinolones?
> > >
> > >  capt'  dave
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo!  Groups  Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > **************It's  raining cats and dogs -- Come to PawNation, a place
> > where pets rule!  (http://www.pawnation.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000008)
> >
> >
> >  [Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo!  Groups Links
>
>
>
> **************It's raining cats and dogs -- Come to PawNation, a place
> where pets rule! (http://www.pawnation.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000008)
>

Anyone ever try this, it's from Costco and I noticed it has soy-based
fabric softeners. I just tried a load tonight and we will see but
curious. It has a couple of floral fragrances with it, including
lavender, I think. Allegedly natural and free of many things...

?

Jane, CA

Jane Parks-McKay
janeparksmckay@...






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The greatest truths are told in jest Heidi.

capt' dave


In a message dated 7/3/2009 7:13:12 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
lableslea@... writes:

Sounds  feasible to me.  Leslea




________________________________
From: Heidi  <alces54@...>
To: fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday,  July 2, 2009 9:12:33 PM
Subject: [fqtoxicity] Re: the FDA is at it  again.





Yeah, for sure - but I'm thinking there's more  than the usual
self-aggrandizement involved in covering up the evidence of fq  adverse
reactions. I'm
thinking the FDA would really prefer no one is able to  connect the dots
because the true story on these damn drugs is known, has been  known for a long
time, and there's real criminal culpability involved in  keeping them in
circulation. Or, less tinfoily, that there's been FAR MORE  DAMAGE done among
the likes of our soldiers in Desert Storm (yes, I'm  suggesting that Gulf War
Syndrome may be the result of prophylactic doses of  cipro) and with the
postal workers who took cipro after 9/11, and that if THAT  gets bruited
about, the cat will escape the bag and lead to another colossal  lawsuit, with
the federal government as one of the unindicted co-conspirators  (because no
one can sue the bastids). People will start adding up their  inexplicable
ailments and voila! Bigger trouble than asbestos.

Or I'm  just spouting a bunch of hoo-ha. It wouldn't be the first  time.

Heidi

--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogro ups.com, "garytby"  <thebigyeast@ ...> wrote:
>
> MONEY !!!
>
>
> --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogro ups.com, "Heidi" <alces54@>  wrote:
> >
> > Makes you wonder what's really at stake,  doesn't it?
> >
> > Heidi
> >
> >
> > --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogro ups.com, "davidtfull" <Fqresearch@  > wrote:
> > >
> > > The FDA has changed the  locations for every document used as a
reference within the wikipedia articles  that was linked by to the FDA site.
Thereby invalidating hundreds of  references. I now have to go back and change
each and every one of these  references to reflect these new locations
manually. I rather doubt that this  was routine housekeeping on their part as
only
the articles that related to  the quinolone class were moved recently.
> > >
> > >  Looks like they are engaging in damage control once again. They
cannot delete  these articles as that would be destruction of evidence due to
the ongoing  litigation. But nothing would prevent them from moving them and
invalidating  all of the links found on the Internet that makes reference to
them.
>  > >
> > > I've never been one for conspiracy theories  regarding these drugs
but I am seriously reconsidering that view now. Far too  much is going on
recently for all of this to be coincidence. Too much  information has
disappeared from the Internet, too many sites have shut down,  and now this
recent
action by the FDA who for the most part has failed to  update thier site with
anything relevant for years. Now all of a sudden they  are archiving anything
that has to do with the quinolones?
> > >
> > > capt' dave
> > >
>  >
>







[Non-text  portions of this message have been  removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo!  Groups Links





**************It's raining cats and dogs -- Come to PawNation, a place
where pets rule! (http://www.pawnation.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000008)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sounds feasible to me. Leslea




________________________________
From: Heidi <alces54@...>
To: fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2009 9:12:33 PM
Subject: [fqtoxicity] Re: the FDA is at it again.





Yeah, for sure - but I'm thinking there's more than the usual
self-aggrandizement involved in covering up the evidence of fq adverse
reactions. I'm thinking the FDA would really prefer no one is able to connect
the dots because the true story on these damn drugs is known, has been known for
a long time, and there's real criminal culpability involved in keeping them in
circulation. Or, less tinfoily, that there's been FAR MORE DAMAGE done among the
likes of our soldiers in Desert Storm (yes, I'm suggesting that Gulf War
Syndrome may be the result of prophylactic doses of cipro) and with the postal
workers who took cipro after 9/11, and that if THAT gets bruited about, the cat
will escape the bag and lead to another colossal lawsuit, with the federal
government as one of the unindicted co-conspirators (because no one can sue the
bastids). People will start adding up their inexplicable ailments and voila!
Bigger trouble than asbestos.

Or I'm just spouting a bunch of hoo-ha. It wouldn't be the first time.

Heidi

--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogro ups.com, "garytby" <thebigyeast@ ...> wrote:
>
> MONEY !!!
>
>
> --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogro ups.com, "Heidi" <alces54@> wrote:
> >
> > Makes you wonder what's really at stake, doesn't it?
> >
> > Heidi
> >
> >
> > --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogro ups.com, "davidtfull" <Fqresearch@ > wrote:
> > >
> > > The FDA has changed the locations for every document used as a reference
within the wikipedia articles that was linked by to the FDA site. Thereby
invalidating hundreds of references. I now have to go back and change each and
every one of these references to reflect these new locations manually. I rather
doubt that this was routine housekeeping on their part as only the articles that
related to the quinolone class were moved recently.
> > >
> > > Looks like they are engaging in damage control once again. They cannot
delete these articles as that would be destruction of evidence due to the
ongoing litigation. But nothing would prevent them from moving them and
invalidating all of the links found on the Internet that makes reference to
them.
> > >
> > > I've never been one for conspiracy theories regarding these drugs but I am
seriously reconsidering that view now. Far too much is going on recently for all
of this to be coincidence. Too much information has disappeared from the
Internet, too many sites have shut down, and now this recent action by the FDA
who for the most part has failed to update thier site with anything relevant for
years. Now all of a sudden they are archiving anything that has to do with the
quinolones?
> > >
> > > capt' dave
> > >
> >
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes we do, that sounds ominous "we know too much", like we should be looking
over our shoulders, like in a mission impossible or james bond flick. Sally
saying to the FDA. "Be afraid, be very afraid" cracked me up.
Leslea




________________________________
From: ~ Shells ~ <toxic_pinx@...>
To: fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2009 9:43:56 PM
Subject: [fqtoxicity] Re: the FDA is at it again.






Me toooo!! Ignorance is BLISS.... and I want to be blissful again.....

unfortunately, we "know too much".

~Shells~

--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogro ups.com, Leslea Bates <lableslea@. ..> wrote:
>
> Makes me long for the days when I didn't know what was going on, so
that I could believe that degree of greed and corruption in the US is
something they only put in the movies. It's amazing how far it goes and
how many are involved. I keep praying that God doesn't forsake us as a
country.
> Leslea
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: davidtfull Fqresearch@. ..
> To: fqtoxicity@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 10:30:29 PM
> Subject: [fqtoxicity] the FDA is at it again.
>
>
>
>
>
> The FDA has changed the locations for every document used as a
reference within the wikipedia articles that was linked by to the FDA
site. Thereby invalidating hundreds of references. I now have to go back
and change each and every one of these references to reflect these new
locations manually. I rather doubt that this was routine housekeeping on
their part as only the articles that related to the quinolone class were
moved recently.
>
> Looks like they are engaging in damage control once again. They cannot
delete these articles as that would be destruction of evidence due to
the ongoing litigation. But nothing would prevent them from moving them
and invalidating all of the links found on the Internet that makes
reference to them.
>
> I've never been one for conspiracy theories regarding these drugs but
I am seriously reconsidering that view now. Far too much is going on
recently for all of this to be coincidence. Too much information has
disappeared from the Internet, too many sites have shut down, and now
this recent action by the FDA who for the most part has failed to update
thier site with anything relevant for years. Now all of a sudden they
are archiving anything that has to do with the quinolones?
>
> capt' dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sue: thanks so much, this is comforting news!
Jane, CA

Jane Parks-McKay
janeparksmckay@...






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cap't Dave: I am so sorry!
And Leslea, God never does, in my opinion, this life is a test and
the short time we are in it provides so many lessons, both good, and
both bad. It makes us stronger people and we are never ever alone, ever.

Jane, CA

Jane Parks-McKay
janeparksmckay@...






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you Dave!!!




________________________________
From: "Fqresearch@..." <Fqresearch@...>
To: fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2009 10:23:20 PM
Subject: Re: [fqtoxicity] Re: the FDA is at it again.





Most, if not all, of those documents are on my server. I have copies of
the originals. So they are not lost to us even if the FDA were to delete
them completely. The problem is that the head honchos over at wikipedia
frown upon me linking back to my site. They seem to think that it is a form
of self promotion. So what I have to do now is check each and every
reference in those articles that link to the FDA site and then update them to
these new addresses. Which is going to be a royal pain in .... but it can be
done. It will take weeks to do as I am doing so many things at once. So I
have to fit that in when I can.

It is a constant hassle at wikipedia as I have to monitor all of those
articles on a daily basis and undo any changes that are vandalism, etc. Those
edits that are legit, but I disagree with, I have to discuss with the
editor making such changes and see if I can convince them to see things from my
point of view. As such the articles are in a constant state of flux and I
have to work my butt off to stop people from undoing all that work. But if
I can support my position with citations then I win these arguments. When
the links to my references disappear then you know what hits the fan. So
I end up like a one legged cat in a room full of rocking chairs.

Most of the time when I am short tempered here on the forum it is usually
when I am battling the medical community over at wikipedia. But it is
worth the effort as the articles have the greatest impact possible as they are
linked to hundreds of thousands of medical sites. So the word is getting
out to those that matter, and of course those who are now threatened by this
are fighting back tooth and nail. But there is nobody that I am not
willing to go toe to toe with to keep these articles exactly as I have written
them. But at times I do get a bit punch drunk from all the hits I have to
endure to make this happen. If that is what it takes then that is exactly
what I will do.

Somebody, somewhere has to go to bat for you guys and gals, and for the
moment it is I in the batter's box.

capt' dave


In a message dated 7/2/2009 4:38:49 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
newslists@suddenlin k.net writes:

Hi Dave - Thanks for your time and efforts in keeping these important
links "alive". I have no idea how long it will take you to update hundreds of
references - all I can say is thank you. (and I'd love to add some swear
words about the FDA, but won't write them here, I'll just continue muttering
them to myself as I type.)

Sue

--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogro ups.com, "davidtfull" <Fqresearch@ ...> wrote:
>
> The FDA has changed the locations for every document used as a reference
within the wikipedia articles that was linked by to the FDA site. Thereby
invalidating hundreds of references. I now have to go back and change
each and every one of these references to reflect these new locations
manually. I rather doubt that this was routine housekeeping on their part as
only
the articles that related to the quinolone class were moved recently.
>
> Looks like they are engaging in damage control once again. They cannot
delete these articles as that would be destruction of evidence due to the
ongoing litigation. But nothing would prevent them from moving them and
invalidating all of the links found on the Internet that makes reference to
them.
>
> I've never been one for conspiracy theories regarding these drugs but I
am seriously reconsidering that view now. Far too much is going on
recently for all of this to be coincidence. Too much information has disappeared
from the Internet, too many sites have shut down, and now this recent
action by the FDA who for the most part has failed to update thier site with
anything relevant for years. Now all of a sudden they are archiving anything
that has to do with the quinolones?
>
> capt' dave
>

------------ --------- --------- ------

Yahoo! Groups Links

************ **It's raining cats and dogs -- Come to PawNation, a place
where pets rule! (http://www.pawnation.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000008)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I wish it was that easy Hal.  What you have to is go through the  reference
list for the article (200+ references) and click on each one that has  a
link.  If the link is broken you have to track it down and find the new  URL.
That is the easy part.  But replacing it is not a cut and paste  job, it is
a BITCH to do.  Wikipedia uses inline references, so it would  look
something like this when you go to make that kind of  change:


Ciprofloxacin is a [[broad-spectrum antibiotic]] that is  active against
both
[[Gram-positive]] and [[Gram-negative]] bacteria.   It functions by
inhibiting [[DNA gyrase]], a type II [[topoisomerase]], and  topoisomerase
iv<ref>{{cite journal |author=Drlica K, Zhao X |title=DNA  gyrase, topoisomerase
IV,
and the 4-quinolones |journal=Microbiol Mol Biol Rev.  |volume=61 |issue=3
|pages=377–92 |year=1997 |month=Sep |pmid=9293187  |pmc=232616
|url=http://mmbr.asm.org/cgi/pmidlookup?view=long&pmid=9293187  |day=01}}</ref>,
which is
an enzyme necessary to separate replicated DNA,  thereby inhibiting cell
division.
The fluoroquinolones interfere with DNA  replication by inhibiting an
enzyme complex called DNA gyrase. This can also  affect mammalian cell
replication. In particular, some congeners of this drug  family display high
activity
not only against bacterial topoisomerases, but also  against eukaryotic
topoisomerases and are toxic to cultured mammalian cells and  in vivo tumor
models. Although the quinolone is highly toxic to mammalian cells  in culture,
its mechanism of cytotoxic action is not known. Quinolone induced  DNA damage
was first reported in 1986 (Hussy et al.)<ref>Hussy P, Maass G,  Tümmler B,
Grosse F, Schomburg U (June 1986). "Effect of 4-quinolones and  novobiocin
on calf thymus DNA polymerase alpha primase complex, topoisomerases I  and
II, and growth of mammalian lymphoblasts". Antimicrob. Agents Chemother. 29
(6): 1073–8. PMID 3015015. PMC: 180502.
_http://aac.asm.org/cgi/reprint/29/6/1073.pdf.</ref_
(http://aac.asm.org/cgi/reprint/29/6/1073.pdf.</ref) >.

And you then have to find the bad reference within this text and then
replace it.  One space or letter out of order and you are screwed.   The
references are keyed in using <ref> the reference </ref>  commands.  Nowhere
near
as easy as it looks.  But the offer is  certainly appreciated.  Here is an
example of what I am talking about, in  the code I write to create the article
a link looks like  this:

<ref>{{cite journal |author=Drlica K, Zhao X |title=DNA  gyrase,
topoisomerase IV, and the 4-quinolones |journal=Microbiol Mol Biol Rev. 
|volume=61
|issue=3 |pages=377–92 |year=1997 |month=Sep |pmid=9293187  |pmc=232616
|url=http://mmbr.asm.org/cgi/pmidlookup?view=long&pmid=9293187  |day=01}}</ref>

Where as in the reference list this is what YOU  see:

Drlica K, Zhao X (01 Sep 1997). "DNA gyrase, topoisomerase IV, and  the
4-quinolones". Microbiol Mol Biol Rev. 61 (3): 377–92. PMID 9293187. PMC:
232616.

So just finding the URL doesn't get it.  You still have to format it  and
place it within the document where it belongs.

capt' dave

In a message dated 7/2/2009 11:45:53 P.M. Pacific  Daylight Time,
reallynolie@... writes:
If I can help send me some  work.  Not sure what it takes other than going
through the FDA site and  matching the original doc to the same doc on a new
link and sending you the new  url.

Hal

--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, Fqresearch@...  wrote:
>
> Most, if not all, of those documents are on my  server.  I have  copies
of
> the originals.   So they  are not lost to us even if the FDA  were to
delete
> them  completely.  The problem is that the head honchos over  at
wikipedia
> frown upon me linking back to my site.  They seem to think   that it is a
form
> of self promotion.  So what I have to do now is  check  each and every
> reference in those articles that link to the  FDA site and then  update
them to
> these new addresses.  Which  is going to be a royal pain in  .... but it
can be
> done.  It  will take weeks to do as I am doing so many  things at once.
So I
> have to fit that in when I can.
>
> It is a  constant hassle at wikipedia as I have to monitor all of those
>  articles on a daily basis and undo any changes that are vandalism,  etc.
   Those
> edits that are legit, but I disagree with, I  have to discuss with the
> editor making such changes and see if I  can convince them to see things
from my
> point of view.  As  such the articles are in a constant state of flux and
I
> have to  work my butt off to stop people from undoing all that work.  But
if
>  I can support my position with citations then I win these  arguments.
When
>  the links to my references disappear then  you know what hits the fan.
So
> I  end up like a one legged  cat in a room full of rocking chairs.
>
> Most of the time  when I am short tempered here on the forum it is
usually
> when I  am battling the medical community over at wikipedia.  But it is
> worth the effort as the articles have the greatest impact possible as
they are
> linked to hundreds of thousands of medical sites.   So the word is
getting
> out to those that matter, and of course  those who are now threatened by
this
> are  fighting back tooth and  nail.  But there is nobody that I am not
> willing to  go toe  to toe with to keep these articles exactly as I have
written
>  them.   But at times I do get a bit punch drunk from all the hits I
have to
> endure to  make this happen.  If that is what it  takes then that is
exactly
> what I  will do.
>
> Somebody, somewhere has to go to bat for you guys and gals, and for  the
> moment it is I in the batter's box.
>
>  capt' dave
>
>
> In a message dated 7/2/2009  4:38:49 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> newslists@... writes:
>
> Hi Dave  - Thanks for your time and efforts in keeping these  important
> links  "alive".  I have no idea how long it will  take you to update
hundreds of
> references - all I can say is  thank you.  (and I'd love to add some
swear
> words about the  FDA, but won't write them here, I'll just continue
muttering
>  them  to myself as I type.)
>
> Sue
>
> --- In   fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "davidtfull" <Fqresearch@>   wrote:
> >
> > The FDA has changed the locations for every  document  used as a
reference
> within the wikipedia articles that  was linked by to the  FDA site.
Thereby
> invalidating  hundreds of references.  I now have  to go back and change
>  each and every one of these references to reflect these  new locations
> manually.  I rather doubt that this was routine  housekeeping  on their
part as only
> the articles that related to the quinolone   class were moved recently.
> >
> > Looks like they are  engaging in  damage control once again.  They
cannot
> delete  these articles as that  would be destruction of evidence due to
the
> ongoing litigation.  But  nothing would prevent them from  moving them
and
> invalidating all of the links  found on the  Internet that makes
reference to
> them.
> >
> >  I've  never been one for conspiracy theories regarding these drugs but
I
> am  seriously reconsidering that view now.  Far too much is  going on
> recently  for all of this to be coincidence.  Too  much information has
disappeared
> from the Internet, too many  sites have shut down, and now this recent
> action  by the FDA who  for the most part has failed to update thier site
with
> anything   relevant for years.  Now all of a sudden they are archiving
anything
> that  has to do with the quinolones?
> >
> >  capt'  dave
> >
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo!  Groups  Links
>
>
>
>
>
> **************It's  raining cats and dogs -- Come to PawNation, a place
> where pets rule!  (http://www.pawnation.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000008)
>
>
>  [Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]
>




------------------------------------

Yahoo!  Groups Links



**************It's raining cats and dogs -- Come to PawNation, a place
where pets rule! (http://www.pawnation.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000008)

Here is a progress report:

The September 1998 letter where a study was added that showed 22% of the
pediatric cystic fibrosis patients treated with ciprofloxacin experienced
musculoskeletal adverse reactions to ciprofloxacin, some of which persisted
for  a length greater than eight months, can no longer be found on the FDA
site.  Even though it existed three months ago.

The September 1997 letter which dealt with the addition of the CNS adverse
reaction warnings can no longer be found on the FDA site. Even though it
existed  three months ago.

The FDA Medical Bulletin issued October 1996 where the FDA gave notice to
practicing physicians within the United States regarding spontaneous tendon
ruptures and chronic tendonitis being associated with the fluoroquinolones
can  no longer be found on the FDA site. Even though it existed three months
  ago.

The NDA (New Drug Application) documents are no longer available on the FDA
  site. There is a regulatory gap between 1987 and 1994 as well as between
1994  and 1997, resulting in ten years worth of regulatory documentation
missing on  the FDA site concerning the regulatory history of ciprofloxacin
alone.

As such just about anything that took place prior to 1998 appears to have
been deleted.  There are only two documents to be found between 1987 and
1997.  Funny that the FDA had stated in any number of letters to me that
Cipro was first approved in 1996, even though this is not true.  Cipro was
first approved on October 22, 1987.  But this is what the FDA stated to me  back
in 2004:

... Since approving the first Class of Fluoroquinolones in 1996 for
treatment of acute maxillary sinusitis, acute bacterial exacerbations, of 
chronic
bronchitis, community-acquired pneumonia, uncomplicated skin and skin
structure infections, complicated urinary tract infections and acute
pyelonephritis, there have been several labeling supplements added as well as 
adding
new indications since the original approval in 1996...

So what happened to all of these labeling supplements that the FDA is
referring to in 2004?  Poofff.  Gone.  So basically the FDA has  deleted the
majority of the regulatory history between 1987 to 1998.  There  is one entry
dated 7-21-1994, and the next entry is not found until 9-26-1997  even though
seven changes had taken place during this time period including a  label
revision and the original NDA documents are no where to be found.

It is not until 1998 that we see consistent listings of the changes that
had occurred.  And this is for Cipro only.  I have yet to research the  rest
of the quinolone drugs.  But no doubt this had taken place with them  as
well since all of those links are now broken too.

Maybe this is just routine housekeeping on the FDAs part, but I am deeply
concerned that so many documents that portray these drugs in a bad light
have  suddenly gone missing from the FDA site.  Especially when you consider
they  are all the ones linked to on wikipedia articles.  Now I have to wonder
how  many broken links I have on the research site as a result of this.
What a  frigging nightmare this is turning out to be.
Years of work down the tubes in seconds.

capt' dave



In a message dated 7/2/2009 9:23:05 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
cj.jacks@... writes:

Thanks  from the bottom of my heart - this site has been a godsend of hope
and support  and info




________________________________
From:  "Fqresearch@..." <Fqresearch@...>
To:  fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2009 10:23:20  PM
Subject: Re: [fqtoxicity] Re: the FDA is at it  again.





Most, if not all, of those documents are on my  server. I have copies of
the originals. So they are not lost to us even if  the FDA were to delete
them completely. The problem is that the head  honchos over at wikipedia
frown upon me linking back to my site. They seem  to think that it is a
form
of self promotion. So what I have to do now is  check each and every
reference in those articles that link to the FDA site  and then update them
to
these new addresses. Which is going to be a royal  pain in .... but it can
be
done. It will take weeks to do as I am doing so  many things at once. So I
have to fit that in when I can.

It is a  constant hassle at wikipedia as I have to monitor all of those
articles on  a daily basis and undo any changes that are vandalism, etc.
Those
edits  that are legit, but I disagree with, I have to discuss with the
editor  making such changes and see if I can convince them to see things
from my
point of view. As such the articles are in a constant state of flux and I
have to work my butt off to stop people from undoing all that work. But if
I can support my position with citations then I win these arguments. When
the links to my references disappear then you know what hits the fan. So
I end up like a one legged cat in a room full of rocking  chairs.

Most of the time when I am short tempered here on the forum it  is usually
when I am battling the medical community over at wikipedia. But  it is
worth the effort as the articles have the greatest impact possible  as they
are
linked to hundreds of thousands of medical sites. So the word  is getting
out to those that matter, and of course those who are now  threatened by
this
are fighting back tooth and nail. But there is nobody  that I am not
willing to go toe to toe with to keep these articles exactly  as I have
written
them. But at times I do get a bit punch drunk from all  the hits I have to
endure to make this happen. If that is what it takes  then that is exactly
what I will do.

Somebody, somewhere has to go  to bat for you guys and gals, and for the
moment it is I in the batter's  box.

capt' dave


In a message dated 7/2/2009 4:38:49 P.M.  Pacific Daylight Time,
newslists@suddenlin k.net writes:

Hi Dave -  Thanks for your time and efforts in keeping these important
links "alive".  I have no idea how long it will take you to update hundreds
of
references  - all I can say is thank you. (and I'd love to add some swear
words about  the FDA, but won't write them here, I'll just continue
muttering
them to  myself as I type.)

Sue

--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogro ups.com,  "davidtfull" <Fqresearch@ ...> wrote:
>
> The FDA has  changed the locations for every document used as a reference
within the  wikipedia articles that was linked by to the FDA site. Thereby
invalidating hundreds of references. I now have to go back and change
each and every one of these references to reflect these new locations
manually. I rather doubt that this was routine housekeeping on their part
as only
the articles that related to the quinolone class were moved  recently.
>
> Looks like they are engaging in damage control once  again. They cannot
delete these articles as that would be destruction of  evidence due to the
ongoing litigation. But nothing would prevent them  from moving them and
invalidating all of the links found on the Internet  that makes reference
to
them.
>
> I've never been one for  conspiracy theories regarding these drugs but I
am seriously reconsidering  that view now. Far too much is going on
recently for all of this to be  coincidence. Too much information has
disappeared
from the Internet, too  many sites have shut down, and now this recent
action by the FDA who for  the most part has failed to update thier site
with
anything relevant for  years. Now all of a sudden they are archiving
anything
that has to do with  the quinolones?
>
> capt' dave
>

------------  --------- --------- ------

Yahoo! Groups Links

************  **It's raining cats and dogs -- Come to PawNation, a place
where pets  rule! (http://www.pawnation.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000008)

[Non-text  portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo!  Groups Links





**************It's raining cats and dogs -- Come to PawNation, a place
where pets rule! (http://www.pawnation.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000008)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If I can help send me some work.  Not sure what it takes other than going
through the FDA site and matching the original doc to the same doc on a new link
and sending you the new url.

Hal

--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, Fqresearch@... wrote:
>
> Most, if not all, of those documents are on my server.  I have  copies of
> the originals.   So they are not lost to us even if the FDA  were to delete
> them completely.  The problem is that the head honchos over  at wikipedia
> frown upon me linking back to my site.  They seem to think  that it is a form
> of self promotion.  So what I have to do now is check  each and every
> reference in those articles that link to the FDA site and then  update them to
> these new addresses.  Which is going to be a royal pain in  .... but it can be
> done.  It will take weeks to do as I am doing so many  things at once.  So I
> have to fit that in when I can.
>
> It is a constant hassle at wikipedia as I have to monitor all of those
> articles on a daily basis and undo any changes that are vandalism, etc.  
Those
> edits that are legit, but I disagree with, I have to discuss with the
> editor making such changes and see if I can convince them to see things from
my
> point of view.  As such the articles are in a constant state of flux and I
> have to work my butt off to stop people from undoing all that work.  But if
>  I can support my position with citations then I win these arguments.  When
>  the links to my references disappear then you know what hits the fan.  So
> I  end up like a one legged cat in a room full of rocking chairs.
>
> Most of the time when I am short tempered here on the forum it is usually
> when I am battling the medical community over at wikipedia.  But it is
> worth the effort as the articles have the greatest impact possible as they are
> linked to hundreds of thousands of medical sites.  So the word is getting
> out to those that matter, and of course those who are now threatened by this
> are  fighting back tooth and nail.  But there is nobody that I am not
> willing to  go toe to toe with to keep these articles exactly as I have
written
> them.   But at times I do get a bit punch drunk from all the hits I have to
> endure to  make this happen.  If that is what it takes then that is exactly
> what I  will do.
>
> Somebody, somewhere has to go to bat for you guys and gals, and for the
> moment it is I in the batter's box.
>
> capt' dave
>
>
> In a message dated 7/2/2009 4:38:49 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> newslists@... writes:
>
> Hi Dave  - Thanks for your time and efforts in keeping these important
> links  "alive".  I have no idea how long it will take you to update hundreds
of
> references - all I can say is thank you.  (and I'd love to add some swear
> words about the FDA, but won't write them here, I'll just continue muttering
>  them to myself as I type.)
>
> Sue
>
> --- In  fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "davidtfull" <Fqresearch@>  wrote:
> >
> > The FDA has changed the locations for every document  used as a reference
> within the wikipedia articles that was linked by to the  FDA site.  Thereby
> invalidating hundreds of references.  I now have  to go back and change
> each and every one of these references to reflect these  new locations
> manually.  I rather doubt that this was routine  housekeeping on their part as
only
> the articles that related to the quinolone  class were moved recently.
> >
> > Looks like they are engaging in  damage control once again.  They cannot
> delete these articles as that  would be destruction of evidence due to the
> ongoing litigation.  But  nothing would prevent them from moving them and
> invalidating all of the links  found on the Internet that makes reference to
> them.
> >
> > I've  never been one for conspiracy theories regarding these drugs but I
> am  seriously reconsidering that view now.  Far too much is going on
> recently  for all of this to be coincidence.  Too much information has
disappeared
> from the Internet, too many sites have shut down, and now this recent
> action  by the FDA who for the most part has failed to update thier site with
> anything  relevant for years.  Now all of a sudden they are archiving anything
> that  has to do with the quinolones?
> >
> > capt'  dave
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo!  Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> **************It's raining cats and dogs -- Come to PawNation, a place
> where pets rule! (http://www.pawnation.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000008)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I noticed you had done that.  Just waiting for some editor to  challenge
it.  And when they do I have the references to support it so I  rather doubt
it will be deleted without one helluva a fight from my end.   That is the
beauty of wikipedia.  Highest reference always wins such  challenges.

capt' dave


In a message dated 7/2/2009 8:46:33 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
alxflxmx@... writes:

Hope  this stays there for a while, I copied that text from your site in
the  contraindications section a few weeks ago......

"The fluoroquinolone  drugs are the most toxic and dangerous antibiotics in
clinical practice  today."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinolone#Contraindications


---  On Fri, 7/3/09, Fqresearch@... <Fqresearch@...>  wrote:

From: Fqresearch@... <Fqresearch@...>
Subject:  Re: [fqtoxicity] Re: the FDA is at it again.
To:  fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 3:23  AM

















Most, if not  all, of those documents are on my server.  I have  copies of

the originals.   So they are not lost to us even if the  FDA  were to
delete

them completely.  The problem is that  the head honchos over  at wikipedia

frown upon me linking back to  my site.  They seem to think  that it is a
form

of self  promotion.  So what I have to do now is check  each and every

reference in those articles that link to the FDA site and then   update
them to

these new addresses.  Which is going to be a royal  pain in  .... but it
can be

done.  It will take weeks to do  as I am doing so many  things at once.  So
I

have to fit  that in when I can.



It is a constant hassle at wikipedia  as I have to monitor all of those

articles on a daily basis and  undo any changes that are vandalism, etc.
Those

edits that  are legit, but I disagree with, I have to discuss with the

editor making such changes and see if I can convince them to see  things
from my

point of view.  As such the articles are in  a constant state of flux and I


have to work my butt off to stop  people from undoing all that work.  But
if

I can support my  position with citations then I win these arguments.  When

the  links to my references disappear then you know what hits the fan.  So

I  end up like a one legged cat in a room full of rocking  chairs.



Most of the time when I am short tempered here on the  forum it is usually

when I am battling the medical community  over at wikipedia.  But it is

worth the effort as the  articles have the greatest impact possible as they
are

linked to  hundreds of thousands of medical sites.  So the word is getting


out to those that matter, and of course those who are now threatened  by
this

are  fighting back tooth and nail.  But there is  nobody that I am not

willing to  go toe to toe with to keep these  articles exactly as I have
written

them.   But at times I do  get a bit punch drunk from all the hits I have
to

endure to  make  this happen.  If that is what it takes then that is
exactly

what  I  will do.



Somebody, somewhere has to go to bat  for you guys and gals, and for the

moment it is I in the  batter's box.



capt' dave





In a message  dated 7/2/2009 4:38:49 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

newslists@suddenlin k.net writes:



Hi Dave  -  Thanks for your time and efforts in keeping these important

links  "alive".  I have no idea how long it will take you to  update
hundreds of

references - all I can say is thank  you.  (and I'd love to add some swear

words about the FDA,  but won't write them here, I'll just continue
muttering

them to myself  as I type.)



Sue



--- In  fqtoxicity@yahoogro  ups.com, "davidtfull" <Fqresearch@ ...>
wrote:

>

> The FDA has changed the locations for every  document  used as a
reference

within the wikipedia articles that  was linked by to the  FDA site.
Thereby

invalidating  hundreds of references.  I now have  to go back and change

each and every one of these references to reflect these  new  locations

manually.  I rather doubt that this was routine   housekeeping on their
part as only

the articles that related to the  quinolone  class were moved recently.

>

> Looks like  they are engaging in  damage control once again.  They cannot


delete these articles as that  would be destruction of evidence  due to the

ongoing litigation.  But  nothing would prevent  them from moving them and

invalidating all of the links  found on  the Internet that makes reference
to

them.

>

>  I've  never been one for conspiracy theories regarding these drugs but I


am  seriously reconsidering that view now.  Far too much is  going on

recently  for all of this to be coincidence.  Too  much information has
disappeared

from the Internet, too many  sites have shut down, and now this recent

action  by the FDA who  for the most part has failed to update thier site
with

anything   relevant for years.  Now all of a sudden they are archiving
anything

that  has to do with the quinolones?

>

>  capt'  dave

>



------------ --------- ---------  ------



Yahoo!  Groups Links



************  **It's raining cats and dogs -- Come to PawNation, a place

where pets  rule! (http://www.pawnatio n.com/?ncid= emlcntnew0000000  8)



[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]































[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo!  Groups Links





**************It's raining cats and dogs -- Come to PawNation, a place
where pets rule! (http://www.pawnation.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000008)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The soy caused pain should be gone by tomorrow.

Hal

--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, Matt & Michelle Jenkins & kids
<mjenkinsfamily@...> wrote:
>
> I ate some of my kids chick fil a waffle fries (dextrose (corn) , and fried in
Soybean oil) and am feeling awful. We have a hectic out of town weekend coming
up and my anxiety is through the roof. I thought I was going to die in my sleep
last night.
> Anxiety and food sensitivity issues are the only remaining reminder of this
horrible floxing (23 months out).
>
> Pray I can sleep tonight and this goes away tomorrow :(
>
> Michelle
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I ate some of my kids chick fil a waffle fries (dextrose (corn) , and fried in
Soybean oil) and am feeling awful. We have a hectic out of town weekend coming
up and my anxiety is through the roof. I thought I was going to die in my sleep
last night.
Anxiety and food sensitivity issues are the only remaining reminder of this
horrible floxing (23 months out).

Pray I can sleep tonight and this goes away tomorrow :(

Michelle










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks from the bottom of my heart - this site has been a godsend of hope and
support and info




________________________________
From: "Fqresearch@..." <Fqresearch@...>
To: fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2009 10:23:20 PM
Subject: Re: [fqtoxicity] Re: the FDA is at it again.





Most, if not all, of those documents are on my server. I have copies of
the originals. So they are not lost to us even if the FDA were to delete
them completely. The problem is that the head honchos over at wikipedia
frown upon me linking back to my site. They seem to think that it is a form
of self promotion. So what I have to do now is check each and every
reference in those articles that link to the FDA site and then update them to
these new addresses. Which is going to be a royal pain in .... but it can be
done. It will take weeks to do as I am doing so many things at once. So I
have to fit that in when I can.

It is a constant hassle at wikipedia as I have to monitor all of those
articles on a daily basis and undo any changes that are vandalism, etc. Those
edits that are legit, but I disagree with, I have to discuss with the
editor making such changes and see if I can convince them to see things from my
point of view. As such the articles are in a constant state of flux and I
have to work my butt off to stop people from undoing all that work. But if
I can support my position with citations then I win these arguments. When
the links to my references disappear then you know what hits the fan. So
I end up like a one legged cat in a room full of rocking chairs.

Most of the time when I am short tempered here on the forum it is usually
when I am battling the medical community over at wikipedia. But it is
worth the effort as the articles have the greatest impact possible as they are
linked to hundreds of thousands of medical sites. So the word is getting
out to those that matter, and of course those who are now threatened by this
are fighting back tooth and nail. But there is nobody that I am not
willing to go toe to toe with to keep these articles exactly as I have written
them. But at times I do get a bit punch drunk from all the hits I have to
endure to make this happen. If that is what it takes then that is exactly
what I will do.

Somebody, somewhere has to go to bat for you guys and gals, and for the
moment it is I in the batter's box.

capt' dave


In a message dated 7/2/2009 4:38:49 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
newslists@suddenlin k.net writes:

Hi Dave - Thanks for your time and efforts in keeping these important
links "alive". I have no idea how long it will take you to update hundreds of
references - all I can say is thank you. (and I'd love to add some swear
words about the FDA, but won't write them here, I'll just continue muttering
them to myself as I type.)

Sue

--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogro ups.com, "davidtfull" <Fqresearch@ ...> wrote:
>
> The FDA has changed the locations for every document used as a reference
within the wikipedia articles that was linked by to the FDA site. Thereby
invalidating hundreds of references. I now have to go back and change
each and every one of these references to reflect these new locations
manually. I rather doubt that this was routine housekeeping on their part as
only
the articles that related to the quinolone class were moved recently.
>
> Looks like they are engaging in damage control once again. They cannot
delete these articles as that would be destruction of evidence due to the
ongoing litigation. But nothing would prevent them from moving them and
invalidating all of the links found on the Internet that makes reference to
them.
>
> I've never been one for conspiracy theories regarding these drugs but I
am seriously reconsidering that view now. Far too much is going on
recently for all of this to be coincidence. Too much information has disappeared
from the Internet, too many sites have shut down, and now this recent
action by the FDA who for the most part has failed to update thier site with
anything relevant for years. Now all of a sudden they are archiving anything
that has to do with the quinolones?
>
> capt' dave
>

------------ --------- --------- ------

Yahoo! Groups Links

************ **It's raining cats and dogs -- Come to PawNation, a place
where pets rule! (http://www.pawnation.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000008)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hope this stays there for a while, I copied that text from your site in the
contraindications section a few weeks ago......

"The fluoroquinolone drugs are the most toxic and dangerous antibiotics in
clinical practice today."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinolone#Contraindications


--- On Fri, 7/3/09, Fqresearch@... <Fqresearch@...> wrote:

From: Fqresearch@... <Fqresearch@...>
Subject: Re: [fqtoxicity] Re: the FDA is at it again.
To: fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 3:23 AM

















       Most, if not all, of those documents are on my server.  I have  copies of

the originals.   So they are not lost to us even if the FDA  were to delete

them completely.  The problem is that the head honchos over  at wikipedia

frown upon me linking back to my site.  They seem to think  that it is a form

of self promotion.  So what I have to do now is check  each and every

reference in those articles that link to the FDA site and then  update them to

these new addresses.  Which is going to be a royal pain in  .... but it can be

done.  It will take weeks to do as I am doing so many  things at once.  So I

have to fit that in when I can.



It is a constant hassle at wikipedia as I have to monitor all of those

articles on a daily basis and undo any changes that are vandalism, etc.   Those

edits that are legit, but I disagree with, I have to discuss with the

editor making such changes and see if I can convince them to see things from my

point of view.  As such the articles are in a constant state of flux and I

have to work my butt off to stop people from undoing all that work.  But if

  I can support my position with citations then I win these arguments.  When

  the links to my references disappear then you know what hits the fan.  So

I  end up like a one legged cat in a room full of rocking chairs.



Most of the time when I am short tempered here on the forum it is usually

when I am battling the medical community over at wikipedia.  But it is

worth the effort as the articles have the greatest impact possible as they are

linked to hundreds of thousands of medical sites.  So the word is getting

out to those that matter, and of course those who are now threatened by this

are  fighting back tooth and nail.  But there is nobody that I am not

willing to  go toe to toe with to keep these articles exactly as I have written

them.   But at times I do get a bit punch drunk from all the hits I have to

endure to  make this happen.  If that is what it takes then that is exactly

what I  will do.



Somebody, somewhere has to go to bat for you guys and gals, and for the

moment it is I in the batter's box.



capt' dave





In a message dated 7/2/2009 4:38:49 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

newslists@suddenlin k.net writes:



Hi Dave  - Thanks for your time and efforts in keeping these important

links  "alive".  I have no idea how long it will take you to update hundreds of

references - all I can say is thank you.  (and I'd love to add some swear

words about the FDA, but won't write them here, I'll just continue muttering

  them to myself as I type.)



Sue



--- In  fqtoxicity@yahoogro ups.com, "davidtfull" <Fqresearch@ ...>  wrote:

>

> The FDA has changed the locations for every document  used as a reference

within the wikipedia articles that was linked by to the  FDA site.  Thereby

invalidating hundreds of references.  I now have  to go back and change

each and every one of these references to reflect these  new locations

manually.  I rather doubt that this was routine  housekeeping on their part as
only

the articles that related to the quinolone  class were moved recently.

>

> Looks like they are engaging in  damage control once again.  They cannot

delete these articles as that  would be destruction of evidence due to the

ongoing litigation.  But  nothing would prevent them from moving them and

invalidating all of the links  found on the Internet that makes reference to

them.

>

> I've  never been one for conspiracy theories regarding these drugs but I

am  seriously reconsidering that view now.  Far too much is going on

recently  for all of this to be coincidence.  Too much information has
disappeared

from the Internet, too many sites have shut down, and now this recent

action  by the FDA who for the most part has failed to update thier site with

anything  relevant for years.  Now all of a sudden they are archiving anything

that  has to do with the quinolones?

>

> capt'  dave

>



------------ --------- --------- ------



Yahoo!  Groups Links



************ **It's raining cats and dogs -- Come to PawNation, a place

where pets rule! (http://www.pawnatio n.com/?ncid= emlcntnew0000000 8)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yup. I'm very leery of conspiracy theories as well but the evidence seems to be
mounting up.
All I can say to the FDA is: Be afraid, be very afraid.
Sally







-----Original Message-----
From: ~ Shells ~ <toxic_pinx@...>
To: fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, Jul 2, 2009 10:38 pm
Subject: [fqtoxicity] Re: the FDA is at it again.

































Beginning to seem quite obvious now, isn't it??



~Shells~



--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "davidtfull" <Fqresearch@...> wrote:



I've never been one for conspiracy theories regarding these drugs but I

am

seriously reconsidering that view now.



>

> The FDA has changed the locations for every document used as a

reference within the wikipedia articles that was linked by to the FDA

site. Thereby invalidating hundreds of references. I now have to go back

and change each and every one of these references to reflect these new

locations manually. I rather doubt that this was routine housekeeping on

their part as only the articles that related to the quinolone class were

moved recently.

>

> Looks like they are engaging in damage control once again. They cannot

delete these articles as that would be destruction of evidence due to

the ongoing litigation. But nothing would prevent them from moving them

and invalidating all of the links found on the Internet that makes

reference to them.

>

> I've never been one for conspiracy theories regarding these drugs but

I am seriously reconsidering that view now. Far too much is going on

recently for all of this to be coincidence. Too much information has

disappeared from the Internet, too many sites have shut down, and now

this recent action by the FDA who for the most part has failed to update

thier site with anything relevant for years. Now all of a sudden they

are archiving anything that has to do with the quinolones?

>

> capt' dave

>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Most, if not all, of those documents are on my server.  I have  copies of
the originals.   So they are not lost to us even if the FDA  were to delete
them completely.  The problem is that the head honchos over  at wikipedia
frown upon me linking back to my site.  They seem to think  that it is a form
of self promotion.  So what I have to do now is check  each and every
reference in those articles that link to the FDA site and then  update them to
these new addresses.  Which is going to be a royal pain in  .... but it can be
done.  It will take weeks to do as I am doing so many  things at once.  So I
have to fit that in when I can.

It is a constant hassle at wikipedia as I have to monitor all of those
articles on a daily basis and undo any changes that are vandalism, etc.   Those
edits that are legit, but I disagree with, I have to discuss with the
editor making such changes and see if I can convince them to see things from my
point of view.  As such the articles are in a constant state of flux and I
have to work my butt off to stop people from undoing all that work.  But if
  I can support my position with citations then I win these arguments.  When
  the links to my references disappear then you know what hits the fan.  So
I  end up like a one legged cat in a room full of rocking chairs.

Most of the time when I am short tempered here on the forum it is usually
when I am battling the medical community over at wikipedia.  But it is
worth the effort as the articles have the greatest impact possible as they are
linked to hundreds of thousands of medical sites.  So the word is getting
out to those that matter, and of course those who are now threatened by this
are  fighting back tooth and nail.  But there is nobody that I am not
willing to  go toe to toe with to keep these articles exactly as I have written
them.   But at times I do get a bit punch drunk from all the hits I have to
endure to  make this happen.  If that is what it takes then that is exactly
what I  will do.

Somebody, somewhere has to go to bat for you guys and gals, and for the
moment it is I in the batter's box.

capt' dave


In a message dated 7/2/2009 4:38:49 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
newslists@... writes:

Hi Dave  - Thanks for your time and efforts in keeping these important
links  "alive".  I have no idea how long it will take you to update hundreds of
references - all I can say is thank you.  (and I'd love to add some swear
words about the FDA, but won't write them here, I'll just continue muttering
  them to myself as I type.)

Sue

--- In  fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "davidtfull" <Fqresearch@...>  wrote:
>
> The FDA has changed the locations for every document  used as a reference
within the wikipedia articles that was linked by to the  FDA site.  Thereby
invalidating hundreds of references.  I now have  to go back and change
each and every one of these references to reflect these  new locations
manually.  I rather doubt that this was routine  housekeeping on their part as
only
the articles that related to the quinolone  class were moved recently.
>
> Looks like they are engaging in  damage control once again.  They cannot
delete these articles as that  would be destruction of evidence due to the
ongoing litigation.  But  nothing would prevent them from moving them and
invalidating all of the links  found on the Internet that makes reference to
them.
>
> I've  never been one for conspiracy theories regarding these drugs but I
am  seriously reconsidering that view now.  Far too much is going on
recently  for all of this to be coincidence.  Too much information has
disappeared
from the Internet, too many sites have shut down, and now this recent
action  by the FDA who for the most part has failed to update thier site with
anything  relevant for years.  Now all of a sudden they are archiving anything
that  has to do with the quinolones?
>
> capt'  dave
>




------------------------------------

Yahoo!  Groups Links





**************It's raining cats and dogs -- Come to PawNation, a place
where pets rule! (http://www.pawnation.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000008)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Me toooo!!  Ignorance is BLISS.... and I want to be blissful again.....

unfortunately, we "know too much".

~Shells~


--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, Leslea Bates <lableslea@...> wrote:
>
> Makes me long for the days when I didn't know what was going on, so
that I could believe that degree of greed and corruption in the US is
something they only put in the movies. It's amazing how far it goes and
how many are involved. I keep praying that God doesn't forsake us as a
country.
> Leslea
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: davidtfull Fqresearch@...
> To: fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 10:30:29 PM
> Subject: [fqtoxicity] the FDA is at it again.
>
>
>
>
>
> The FDA has changed the locations for every document used as a
reference within the wikipedia articles that was linked by to the FDA
site. Thereby invalidating hundreds of references. I now have to go back
and change each and every one of these references to reflect these new
locations manually. I rather doubt that this was routine housekeeping on
their part as only the articles that related to the quinolone class were
moved recently.
>
> Looks like they are engaging in damage control once again. They cannot
delete these articles as that would be destruction of evidence due to
the ongoing litigation. But nothing would prevent them from moving them
and invalidating all of the links found on the Internet that makes
reference to them.
>
> I've never been one for conspiracy theories regarding these drugs but
I am seriously reconsidering that view now. Far too much is going on
recently for all of this to be coincidence. Too much information has
disappeared from the Internet, too many sites have shut down, and now
this recent action by the FDA who for the most part has failed to update
thier site with anything relevant for years. Now all of a sudden they
are archiving anything that has to do with the quinolones?
>
> capt' dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Beginning to seem quite obvious now, isn't it??

~Shells~

--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "davidtfull" <Fqresearch@...> wrote:

I've never been one for conspiracy theories regarding these drugs but I
am
seriously reconsidering that view now.


>
> The FDA has changed the locations for every document used as a
reference within the wikipedia articles that was linked by to the FDA
site. Thereby invalidating hundreds of references. I now have to go back
and change each and every one of these references to reflect these new
locations manually. I rather doubt that this was routine housekeeping on
their part as only the articles that related to the quinolone class were
moved recently.
>
> Looks like they are engaging in damage control once again. They cannot
delete these articles as that would be destruction of evidence due to
the ongoing litigation. But nothing would prevent them from moving them
and invalidating all of the links found on the Internet that makes
reference to them.
>
> I've never been one for conspiracy theories regarding these drugs but
I am seriously reconsidering that view now. Far too much is going on
recently for all of this to be coincidence. Too much information has
disappeared from the Internet, too many sites have shut down, and now
this recent action by the FDA who for the most part has failed to update
thier site with anything relevant for years. Now all of a sudden they
are archiving anything that has to do with the quinolones?
>
> capt' dave
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yeah, for sure - but I'm thinking there's more than the usual
self-aggrandizement involved in covering up the evidence of fq adverse
reactions.  I'm thinking the FDA would really prefer no one is able to connect
the dots because the true story on these damn drugs is known, has been known for
a long time, and there's real criminal culpability involved in keeping them in
circulation.  Or, less tinfoily, that there's been FAR MORE DAMAGE done among
the likes of our soldiers in Desert Storm (yes, I'm suggesting that Gulf War
Syndrome may be the result of prophylactic doses of cipro) and with the postal
workers who took cipro after 9/11, and that if THAT gets bruited about, the cat
will escape the bag and lead to another colossal lawsuit, with the federal
government as one of the unindicted co-conspirators (because no one can sue the
bastids).  People will start adding up their inexplicable ailments and voila! 
Bigger trouble than asbestos.

Or I'm just spouting a bunch of hoo-ha.  It wouldn't be the first time.

Heidi

  --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "garytby" <thebigyeast@...> wrote:
>
> MONEY !!!
>
>
> --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "Heidi" <alces54@> wrote:
> >
> > Makes you wonder what's really at stake, doesn't it?
> >
> > Heidi
> >
> >
> > --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "davidtfull" <Fqresearch@> wrote:
> > >
> > > The FDA has changed the locations for every document used as a reference
within the wikipedia articles that was linked by to the FDA site.  Thereby
invalidating hundreds of references.  I now have to go back and change each and
every one of these references to reflect these new locations manually.  I rather
doubt that this was routine housekeeping on their part as only the articles that
related to the quinolone class were moved recently.
> > >
> > > Looks like they are engaging in damage control once again.  They cannot
delete these articles as that would be destruction of evidence due to the
ongoing litigation.  But nothing would prevent them from moving them and
invalidating all of the links found on the Internet that makes reference to
them.
> > >
> > > I've never been one for conspiracy theories regarding these drugs but I am
seriously reconsidering that view now.  Far too much is going on recently for
all of this to be coincidence.  Too much information has disappeared from the
Internet, too many sites have shut down, and now this recent action by the FDA
who for the most part has failed to update thier site with anything relevant for
years.  Now all of a sudden they are archiving anything that has to do with the
quinolones?
> > >
> > > capt' dave
> > >
> >
>

I guess you didn't read my post that indicated a clear interaction with other
issues that the fluoroquines causes.

Hal

--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "tymesharing" <newslists@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jane -
>
> Technically speaking, there should be no problem with aloe for anyone floxed
based upon the facts Dave has shared with us in previous posts.
>
> I, however, do react to aloe, even in small amounts such as in shampoo or hand
washes.  My reaction is mild, (compared to how awful I feel after soy, for
instance) but perceptable and problematic.
>
> It seems best if you decide for yourself whether or not the aloe you're using
in your handwash is a problem.  If you don't notice any physical changes, then I
would conclude you don't have a problem with it.
>
> Aloe is in everything these days, so it's a whole lot easier to just use it if
your body tolerates it.
>
> Also, I've never had any trouble with amaranth, buckwheat, quinoa, rice..... I
ate too many oats too frequently and started to react, but that's a food
sensitivity issue and not necessarily having anything to do with the FQ's.
>
> Sue
>
>
> --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, Jane Parks-McKay <janeparksmckay@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi: love this discussions of ours.
> >
> > Anyway, anyone ever had any problem taking Remifemin or Black Cohash
> > (hot flashes), how about soy isoflavons, I realize that is soy, right?
> > on the hand sanitizer and things, I did a check and found out the
> > hand sanitizer we got at Dollar Tree DOES have aloe in it. However, I
> > don't really use it except for when I can't get the hot water fast
> > into the tap inside the house so I rub my hand with it and then
> > immediately rinse it off at the tap, it beats wasting a lot of cold
> > water as it takes forever to get the warm/hot water in here from the
> > water heater. Is that still a problem with the aloe then?
> >
> > while I'm here, anyone have trouble with amaranth, we'd like to do
> > more vegie things but it's always nice to see what experiences others
> > have.?
> >
> > Jane, CA
> >
> > Jane Parks-McKay
> > janeparksmckay@
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Hi Dave - Thanks for your time and efforts in keeping these important links
"alive".  I have no idea how long it will take you to update hundreds of
references - all I can say is thank you.  (and I'd love to add some swear words
about the FDA, but won't write them here, I'll just continue muttering them to
myself as I type.)

Sue

--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "davidtfull" <Fqresearch@...> wrote:
>
> The FDA has changed the locations for every document used as a reference
within the wikipedia articles that was linked by to the FDA site.  Thereby
invalidating hundreds of references.  I now have to go back and change each and
every one of these references to reflect these new locations manually.  I rather
doubt that this was routine housekeeping on their part as only the articles that
related to the quinolone class were moved recently.
>
> Looks like they are engaging in damage control once again.  They cannot delete
these articles as that would be destruction of evidence due to the ongoing
litigation.  But nothing would prevent them from moving them and invalidating
all of the links found on the Internet that makes reference to them.
>
> I've never been one for conspiracy theories regarding these drugs but I am
seriously reconsidering that view now.  Far too much is going on recently for
all of this to be coincidence.  Too much information has disappeared from the
Internet, too many sites have shut down, and now this recent action by the FDA
who for the most part has failed to update thier site with anything relevant for
years.  Now all of a sudden they are archiving anything that has to do with the
quinolones?
>
> capt' dave
>

Hi Jane -

Technically speaking, there should be no problem with aloe for anyone floxed
based upon the facts Dave has shared with us in previous posts.

I, however, do react to aloe, even in small amounts such as in shampoo or hand
washes.  My reaction is mild, (compared to how awful I feel after soy, for
instance) but perceptable and problematic.

It seems best if you decide for yourself whether or not the aloe you're using in
your handwash is a problem.  If you don't notice any physical changes, then I
would conclude you don't have a problem with it.

Aloe is in everything these days, so it's a whole lot easier to just use it if
your body tolerates it.

Also, I've never had any trouble with amaranth, buckwheat, quinoa, rice..... I
ate too many oats too frequently and started to react, but that's a food
sensitivity issue and not necessarily having anything to do with the FQ's.

Sue


--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, Jane Parks-McKay <janeparksmckay@...> wrote:
>
> Hi: love this discussions of ours.
>
> Anyway, anyone ever had any problem taking Remifemin or Black Cohash
> (hot flashes), how about soy isoflavons, I realize that is soy, right?
> on the hand sanitizer and things, I did a check and found out the
> hand sanitizer we got at Dollar Tree DOES have aloe in it. However, I
> don't really use it except for when I can't get the hot water fast
> into the tap inside the house so I rub my hand with it and then
> immediately rinse it off at the tap, it beats wasting a lot of cold
> water as it takes forever to get the warm/hot water in here from the
> water heater. Is that still a problem with the aloe then?
>
> while I'm here, anyone have trouble with amaranth, we'd like to do
> more vegie things but it's always nice to see what experiences others
> have.?
>
> Jane, CA
>
> Jane Parks-McKay
> janeparksmckay@...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

MONEY !!!


--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "Heidi" <alces54@...> wrote:
>
> Makes you wonder what's really at stake, doesn't it?
>
> Heidi
>
>
> --- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "davidtfull" <Fqresearch@> wrote:
> >
> > The FDA has changed the locations for every document used as a reference
within the wikipedia articles that was linked by to the FDA site.  Thereby
invalidating hundreds of references.  I now have to go back and change each and
every one of these references to reflect these new locations manually.  I rather
doubt that this was routine housekeeping on their part as only the articles that
related to the quinolone class were moved recently.
> >
> > Looks like they are engaging in damage control once again.  They cannot
delete these articles as that would be destruction of evidence due to the
ongoing litigation.  But nothing would prevent them from moving them and
invalidating all of the links found on the Internet that makes reference to
them.
> >
> > I've never been one for conspiracy theories regarding these drugs but I am
seriously reconsidering that view now.  Far too much is going on recently for
all of this to be coincidence.  Too much information has disappeared from the
Internet, too many sites have shut down, and now this recent action by the FDA
who for the most part has failed to update thier site with anything relevant for
years.  Now all of a sudden they are archiving anything that has to do with the
quinolones?
> >
> > capt' dave
> >
>

Makes you wonder what's really at stake, doesn't it?

Heidi


--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "davidtfull" <Fqresearch@...> wrote:
>
> The FDA has changed the locations for every document used as a reference
within the wikipedia articles that was linked by to the FDA site.  Thereby
invalidating hundreds of references.  I now have to go back and change each and
every one of these references to reflect these new locations manually.  I rather
doubt that this was routine housekeeping on their part as only the articles that
related to the quinolone class were moved recently.
>
> Looks like they are engaging in damage control once again.  They cannot delete
these articles as that would be destruction of evidence due to the ongoing
litigation.  But nothing would prevent them from moving them and invalidating
all of the links found on the Internet that makes reference to them.
>
> I've never been one for conspiracy theories regarding these drugs but I am
seriously reconsidering that view now.  Far too much is going on recently for
all of this to be coincidence.  Too much information has disappeared from the
Internet, too many sites have shut down, and now this recent action by the FDA
who for the most part has failed to update thier site with anything relevant for
years.  Now all of a sudden they are archiving anything that has to do with the
quinolones?
>
> capt' dave
>

Leslea those are my thoughts and prayers exactly!




________________________________
From: Leslea Bates <lableslea@...>
To: fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2009 9:43:03 AM
Subject: Re: [fqtoxicity] the FDA is at it again.





Makes me long for the days when I didn't know what was going on, so that I could
believe that degree of greed and corruption in the US is something they only put
in the movies. It's amazing how far it goes and how many are involved. I keep
praying that God doesn't forsake us as a country.
Leslea

____________ _________ _________ __
From: davidtfull <Fqresearch@aol. com>
To: fqtoxicity@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 10:30:29 PM
Subject: [fqtoxicity] the FDA is at it again.

The FDA has changed the locations for every document used as a reference within
the wikipedia articles that was linked by to the FDA site. Thereby invalidating
hundreds of references. I now have to go back and change each and every one of
these references to reflect these new locations manually. I rather doubt that
this was routine housekeeping on their part as only the articles that related to
the quinolone class were moved recently.

Looks like they are engaging in damage control once again. They cannot delete
these articles as that would be destruction of evidence due to the ongoing
litigation. But nothing would prevent them from moving them and invalidating all
of the links found on the Internet that makes reference to them.

I've never been one for conspiracy theories regarding these drugs but I am
seriously reconsidering that view now. Far too much is going on recently for all
of this to be coincidence. Too much information has disappeared from the
Internet, too many sites have shut down, and now this recent action by the FDA
who for the most part has failed to update thier site with anything relevant for
years. Now all of a sudden they are archiving anything that has to do with the
quinolones?

capt' dave

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Makes me long for the days when I didn't know what was going on, so that I could
believe that degree of greed and corruption in the US is something they only put
in the movies. It's amazing how far it goes and how many are involved. I keep
praying that God doesn't forsake us as a country.
Leslea




________________________________
From: davidtfull <Fqresearch@...>
To: fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 10:30:29 PM
Subject: [fqtoxicity] the FDA is at it again.





The FDA has changed the locations for every document used as a reference within
the wikipedia articles that was linked by to the FDA site. Thereby invalidating
hundreds of references. I now have to go back and change each and every one of
these references to reflect these new locations manually. I rather doubt that
this was routine housekeeping on their part as only the articles that related to
the quinolone class were moved recently.

Looks like they are engaging in damage control once again. They cannot delete
these articles as that would be destruction of evidence due to the ongoing
litigation. But nothing would prevent them from moving them and invalidating all
of the links found on the Internet that makes reference to them.

I've never been one for conspiracy theories regarding these drugs but I am
seriously reconsidering that view now. Far too much is going on recently for all
of this to be coincidence. Too much information has disappeared from the
Internet, too many sites have shut down, and now this recent action by the FDA
who for the most part has failed to update thier site with anything relevant for
years. Now all of a sudden they are archiving anything that has to do with the
quinolones?

capt' dave







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

FDA is every bit a shame as the SEC.

Hal

--- In fqtoxicity@yahoogroups.com, "davidtfull" <Fqresearch@...> wrote:
>
> The FDA has changed the locations for every document used as a reference
within the wikipedia articles that was linked by to the FDA site.  Thereby
invalidating hundreds of references.  I now have to go back and change each and
every one of these references to reflect these new locations manually.  I rather
doubt that this was routine housekeeping on their part as only the articles that
related to the quinolone class were moved recently.
>
> Looks like they are engaging in damage control once again.  They cannot delete
these articles as that would be destruction of evidence due to the ongoing
litigation.  But nothing would prevent them from moving them and invalidating
all of the links found on the Internet that makes reference to them.
>
> I've never been one for conspiracy theories regarding these drugs but I am
seriously reconsidering that view now.  Far too much is going on recently for
all of this to be coincidence.  Too much information has disappeared from the
Internet, too many sites have shut down, and now this recent action by the FDA
who for the most part has failed to update thier site with anything relevant for
years.  Now all of a sudden they are archiving anything that has to do with the
quinolones?
>
> capt' dave
>

Here is a more detailed post on possible treatment to floxing. I took it from
the FAVC site and was posted by one of the members.I think it is worth looking
into for its benefitial effect on the CNS and tendon pain.


Maybe this is the solution:

174. SERRAPEPTASE


This natural enzyme is known for its anti-inflammatory effect, blood
thinning properties and its ability to block the amines that
transmit the pain signals of the inflammed tissues, hence its
capacity to decrease the pain levels. It is used in Europe with
relative frequency. There is no surprise that it is a thinner that
facilitates the exchanges at the extracellular matrix and through
the small veins and arteries.



The enzyme has been tested in a very limited trial with a core of
floxed persons, with not very relevant conclusions. The conditions
under which it has been surveyed, and the results are:



Floxed persons with intermediate and severe reactions. None
with mild floxing.

Floxed persons in their 3rd, 4th and 5th years; none recently
floxed person.

Doses of about 30 mg a day divided in three 10 mg units in
empty stomachs, with water.

It seems clear that it diminishes overall pains (neuromuscular
myalgias) by a variable degree.

The improvement is noticeable by the second day.

The people have taken it for up to two weeks.

Improves pains after vigorous activity.

No ill effects perceived, not even increased tendency to
bleeding common in other thinners, as nose bleeding and kidney
bleeding.



That does not mean that the enzyme does not have adverse effects. It
is a very little studied enzyme, what has its risks.



The conclusion is that more studies are needed before it could be
recommended for long term floxings. No data avalaible on how can
help floxed persons on their acute phase or shortly after being
floxed.





175. ANETHOLTRITHIONE


During our research, we came across this report:


ANETHOLE DITHIOLETHIONE: AN ANTIOXIDANT AGENT AGAINST TENOTOXICITY
INDUCED BY FLUOROQUINOLONES]

SIALOR OR SULFARLEM. F POUZAUD, M-O CHRISTEN, J-M WARNET, P RAT

Tendinopathy and tendon rupture are the adverse effects observed
with fluoroquinolone antibiotics in old patients. The aim of this
study was to investigate the effect of anethole dithiolethione (5-[p-
methoxyphenyl]3H-1,2-dithiole-3-thione) on the oxidative stress
induced by three fluoroquinolones (pefloxacin, ofloxacin,
ciprofloxacin) incubated with rabbit tenocyte cell line. Anethole
dithiolethione is a well known antioxidant and glutathione inducer.
Anethole dithiolethione is widely used in human therapy for its
choleretic, sialogogic properties and recently proposed as
cytoprotective agent in lung precancerous injuries prevention in
smokers. In this purpose, protection against oxidative stress
induced by fluoroquinolones has been assessed using cytofluorimetric
probes to quantify cytotoxicity and reactive oxygen species
production. Fluorescence signal was quantified in 96-well
microplates, using cold light cytofluorometer. Significant reactive
oxygen species production was detected after 45 minutes for all
fluoroquinolones tested. Anethole dithiolethione has been evaluated
on this parameter. Anethole dithiolethione significantly (*: P<0.05)
reduces and normalizes reactive oxygen species induced by
fluoroquinolones. So, anethole dithiolethione (Sulfarlem), well
known for its antioxidant and glutathione inducing properties, good
tissue diffusion and good tolerance in humans, could be beneficially
associated to fluoroquinolones, and be proposed as a therapeutic
adjuvant to prevent oxidative stress and tendinous adverse effects
induced by xenobiotics and more precisely by fluoroquinolones.



If you have read the previous sections of the report, you will have
learnt that we postulate that besides direct toxicity, the main
mechanism of fluoroquinolone damage is a degradation of the
extracellular matrix and a malfunction of all the microvessels that
vehiculate the end exchange of vital functions, causing a standstill
in many functions, for lack of proper fluid exchanges. This drug
seems to be basically a secretions inducer, what would push ahead
the fluid exchanges, so this kind of researchs make us to believe
that some of the deductions that we have made about the floxing
syndrome may have some ground.



The drug has been tested in a very limited trial with floxed persons
(7 initially and only 5 ended the treatment, the other 2 stopping it
for lack of interest), with not very relevant conclusions. The
conditions under which it has been surveyed, and the results are:



Floxed persons with intermediate and severe reactions. None
with mild floxing.

Floxed persons in their 3rd, 4th and 5th years; none recently
floxed person.

Doses as directed on the package insert (3x25 mg/day). Body
weights between 140 and 182 lb.

The people have taken it for up to two weeks, with an average
of 10 days.

No improvement noted on tendons, as could be expected because
such a long time had elapsed in all cases after the floxing.

Some persons reported improvement in the central nervous
system, specially brain conditions (awareness, clear thinking,
better mood, less brain fog, less insomnia, much less anxiety) that
could be real consequences of the better fluids exchange at the
brain level or either attributable to a placebo effect.

Less pains in joints and muscles, specially after exercise.
The level of pain improvement is normally described as "half the
pain". The pain and soreness after exercise did not disappear in any
of the patients.

No ill effects perceived.That does not mean that the drug does
not have adverse effects.



A better controlled, more scientifical and more complete study is
needed before any accurate conclusion for floxed persons can be
withdrawn.



The compound taken is called commercially SULFARLEM in many
countries. From the package insert, in french, we translate this:

Ingredients: anetholtrithione, monohydrated lactose, gum guar, wheat
starch, sacharose, colloidal silica, magnesium stearate. [The size
of the pill is minute]. The covering has gelatin, sacharose, talc,
titanium dioxide (E171), colouring (E110, E124).

This drug is intented to treat the dry mouth symptoms caused by:

-neuroleptics (drugs used to treat some mental illnesses), caused by
drugs used to treat depression, painkillers and drugs for treating
Parkinson's.

-raditherapy of the neck, ears or jaw.

-alteration of the salival glands caused by Sjogren's.

Do not use Sulfarlem if:

-you have one or more biliar stones.

-you have an obstruction of the biliar ducts.

-you have severe jaundice.

-you are hypersensitive to one of the ingredients.

Sulfarlem may cause diarrhea [did not happen to any of the floxed
volunteers].

Urine can become yellower as is not a cause of concern [happened to
all volunteers].

Consult the potential interactions with other medicines.

Side effects:

-Excessive saliva production.

-Potential diarrhea and loose stools.

-Yellower urine.
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