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1 what the rule says, you can't get it.

2 I'll get the case out right now and give it to

3 you if you want me to do that. Your pleadings state

4 what your case is and, you know, I'm not saying

5 you're sitting here trying to get in --

6 MR. SHEEHAN: I can amend my pleadings any time,

7 I'm in discovery. If I file a complaint, I'm allowed

8 to inquire about all events surrounding the subject

9 matter of my complaint, even though it's not

10 specifically stated in my complaint.

11 And if after further discovery, I need to amend

12 my complaint at a later time, I can do that. You

13 cannot tell me that because something's not in my

14 complaint, that I can't ask about it and amend my

15 pleadings later. That's ridiculous.

16 MR. NILSSON: I think I can. How is it relevant

17 to what you've got plead?

18 MR. SHEEHAN: You've got to decide whether you're

19 going to instruct the witness not to answer or not.

20 I think it's certainly relevant. His relationship

21 with the nursing home is certainly relevant.

22 MR. NILSSON: I'm going to instruct him not to

23 answer, for the reasons stated. If you want to

24 allege that he has some problem with the nursing home

25 that keeps him discharging his duties, alleged, if






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1 you want to make them right now into the record, I'll

2 let you make the amendment and you can get into it.

3 Without the allegation, I'm not going to let you go

4 fishing for things. I'm just not.

5 MR. SHEEHAN: Well, I will say this on the

6 record. Evidence has appeared, has come to me, that

7 there may be a problem, and I think I have a right to

8 inquire about it. For me to say absolutely there is

9 problem, without inquiring about it, I think is

10 something that I should not do.

11 MR. NILSSON: I appreciate that, but for me to

12 have my witness exposed to, you know, who knows what,

13 without him being fairly on notice from the pleading,

14 I think is not right either.

15 MR. SHEEHAN: I'll put you on notice right now

16 there has been statements made to me that there is a

17 problem with his relationship with the nursing home.

18 What that is specifically, I don't know.

19 That's why we have the depositions set of the

20 nursing home people, and that's why we have Mike

21 Schiavo's deposition set. And I don't know what

22 those problems are, but I'm entitled to inquire about

23 them, because they affect the specific issue of

24 whether he's qualified to be a guardian.

25 Now there may be an allegation. I'll make an






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1 allegation right now to solve your dilemma. I'm

2 alleging right now that he's not qualified to be

3 guardian for, not only the reasons expressed in the

4 petition, but because he his having problems at the

5 nursing home and because of his relationship and his

6 nature with the nursing home people, it effects his

7 ability --

8 MR. NILSSON: To properly care for his wife?

9 MR. SHEEHAN: -- to properly care for his wife.

10 MR. NILSSON: Okay. Subject to that allegation

11 that you have amended, it's appropriate form to put

12 it in writing, but with it having been stated, ask

13 him.

14 MR. SHEEHAN: Let me say this, if the facts don't

15 bear that out, I'm not going to amend.

16 MR. NILSSON: I don't think they will, but go

17 ahead. That's fine. Restate it.

18 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

19 Q Okay. Now you indicated that you have had

20 problems at the nursing home from time to time, and I

21 think my last question to you is: What problems have you

22 had?

23 A With the care of my wife.

24 Q Can you be more specific?

25 A Well, I don't have all the grievances in front of






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1 me, but let's see. Maybe, the one --

2 MR. NILSSON: Let me interject. We do have

3 grievances outside. He just referred to them in

4 advance. I'll be glad to go get them and bring them

5 in here and, maybe, give you more specific

6 information.

7 MR. SHEEHAN: Sure.

8 (Whereupon, a brief recess was taken.)

9 MR. NILSSON: Do you want me to give it to him or

10 to you?

11 MR. SHEEHAN: Well --

12 MR. NILSSON: Ask your question, see if he's

13 referred to the grievances in it.

14 MR. SHEEHAN: Can I look at them first before I

15 ask the questions?

16 MR. NILSSON: Do you have all the grievances

17 there?

18 THE DEPONENT: No, Sable Palms hasn't come up

19 with the first year's. This is '93.

20 MR. NILSSON: We've handed Mr. Sheehan a number

21 of photocopy pages of, what are they, Mike?

22 THE DEPONENT: They're called grievance

23 procedures.

24 MR. NILSSON: Okay.

25 MR. SHEEHAN: Do you think it would be okay if I






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1 got copies of these?

2 MR. NILSSON: I don't.

3 THE DEPONENT: I don't if you don't.

4 MR. SHEEHAN: If we got allegations, we will be

5 glad to provide that to you.

6 Okay. Let me just state, on the record, that

7 I've been handed a number of documents entitled

8 grievance procedures and I've gone through several of

9 them and counsel agreed to provide me a copy. At a

10 later time, after I've reviewed them, I may want to

11 continue the deposition just for the specific purpose

12 of going through these particular documents, do you

13 have any objection to that?

14 MR. NILSSON: I do. If you wanted to do a

15 subpoena duces tecum or a notice of taking deposition

16 duces tecum to Mike and have received these records

17 previously and done your deposition, you were free to

18 do that.

19 You just learned it. I'm trying to cooperate by

20 providing the records. I'm not saying I wouldn't

21 agree to it. But I'm not going to sit here and say I

22 would. It's not the easiest thing for Mike to come

23 and have to do. And I don't know if I want to put

24 him through another day of depositions.

25 MR. SHEEHAN: I understand.






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1 MR. NILSSON: Do the best you can with the

2 records right now and we'll address it.

3 MR. SHEEHAN: I understand. I just wanted to put

4 you on notice of it.

5 MR. NILSSON: Okay. Fair enough.

6 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

7 Q Mr. Schiavo, you provided me with a number of

8 documents entitled grievance procedures and, as I

9 understand it, these are grievances that you filed with

10 the nursing home regarding their -- in general, regarding

11 their failure to perform proper functions with regard to

12 your wife's treatment, is that correct?

13 A Correct.

14 Q Who at the nursing home do you deal with?

15 A I deal -- basically, I made a deal with Elaine

16 Nelson and Bev Bule (phonetic). If I had a problem I'd

17 come see them.

18 Q Anybody else?

19 A No. That was the deal I made. I'd come see Bev

20 and Elaine.

21 Q Is it your feeling that you have a personality

22 problem with some people at the nursing home?

23 A No. I don't have a personality problem with the

24 people at the nursing home.

25 Q Have you had arguments with anybody?






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1 A Oh, yeah.

2 Q Who have you had arguments with?

3 A Terry Russell.

4 Q When you said that you made --

5 MR. NILSSON: Well, let me ask that the witness

6 be allowed -- you asked him a question. He answered

7 one. He was not finished, I don't believe.

8 MR. SHEEHAN: Oh, I'm sorry.

9 MR. NILSSON: I don't want it to appear later

10 that he only said one name. If he's got additional

11 information, please let him finish.

12 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

13 Q I'm sorry were you finished?

14 A No. I've had some mild talking with Elaine

15 Nelson. I've had some mild talking with Bev Bule. And I

16 believe I had loud talking with one nurse a long time ago.

17 Q And you don't remember her name?

18 A Judy O'Brien.

19 Q Okay. When you said that now you deal with

20 Elaine Nelson and Bev Bule, is it?

21 A Uh-huh.

22 Q By agreement, are you saying that you, for some

23 reason, you and the nursing home have agreed that you're

24 not going to deal with Terry Russell anymore?

25 A I deal with Terry Russell, but Terry Russell got






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1 a new job now. He's not the administrator anymore.

2 Q He's not at the nursing home anymore?

3 A He's on the third floor of the ACLF. He does

4 something else.

5 Q But the reason that you don't deal with him is

6 because he has a new job and not any --

7 A No, I usually -- go ahead and finish your

8 question.

9 Q Not any personality conflict that you had with

10 him?

11 MR. NILSSON: Are you talking about right now as

12 he sits here?

13 MR. SHEEHAN: Yes.

14 BY THE DEPONENT:

15 A No, I don't have any personality conflict with

16 Terry Russell. I've even told him that.

17 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

18 Q But the arguments that you've had at the nursing

19 home have been with Terry Russell?

20 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Misstates his

21 testimony. He mentioned several people.

22 MR. SHEEHAN: He said he had arguments with Terry

23 Russell and loud talking with these other people.

24 BY THE DEPONENT:

25 A I had one argument with Terry Russell, and the






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1 rest was loud talking.

2 Q When was the argument?

3 A The argument was back in -- don't quote me the

4 month -- but that's when I asked my mother and

5 father-in-law to come in and settle it. That's with Judy

6 O'Brien. Wife was spiking a fever. I asked her to call

7 the doctor. Judy O'Brien got in my face and I got in her

8 face. Then I went down and got loud with Terry Russell.

9 Q And then --

10 A That was the argument I had with Terry Russell in

11 the middle of the floor.

12 Q And you said that you asked the Schindler's to

13 come in and --

14 A I called my mother-in-law and I said to her, you

15 know, I can't get anything done in here. You guys come

16 and smooth this out.

17 Q Did they do that?

18 A I don't know whether they smoothed it out or not.

19 My father-in-law told me that I should start keeping notes

20 about everything that happens around here.

21 Q When was the next time you went into the nursing

22 home after that argument?

23 A The next day.

24 Q Was everything taken care of?

25 A No. I had taken Terry out into the lounge where






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1 I usually sit and we'd sit and talk. And Terry started

2 choking real bad, so Patrick, the physical therapist at

3 the time that was there, came over and said, do I need

4 help. I said, yes, please get a nurse.

5 He ran around the corner, got a nurse that

6 happened to be Judy O'Brien. Judy O'Brien came around the

7 corner, looked at me, and left. I had to wait for another

8 nurse to come up and help Terry.

9 Q So what did you do?

10 A I helped Terry as much as I could till the nurse

11 got there.

12 Q What did you do about that situation?

13 A I went and got angry about it with Bev Bule. I

14 told her, you know, she can have all the grief she wants

15 with me. She has patient care to do. That's walking away

16 from a choking patient. And Terry Russell's comment that

17 day was, if you don't like the care here, leave.

18 Q Is there any reason why you haven't left there?

19 A Because I shouldn't have to leave the nursing

20 home. I like the nursing home overall. It's a beautiful

21 place.

22 Q Has the nursing home ever had discussions with

23 you -- let me strike that. Is the reason that you don't

24 want to leave the nursing home because it is a facility

25 that adequately takes care of Terry?






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1 A That's one of the reasons adequately.

2 Q Do you think that it is the best facility in the

3 area to keep her?

4 A It's the cleanest and the brightest and the

5 prettiest facility in the area.

6 Q Are there any other facilities that you'd rather

7 see her in?

8 A No.

9 Q So you think it's the best?

10 A It's the cleanest, the brightest and it's the

11 cleanest. I didn't say it was the best.

12 Q Is there a better one that you know of?

13 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Can you clarify when

14 you say best in terms of, what, medical treatment or

15 number of nurses on staff?

16 MR. SHEEHAN: I'm talking about overall.

17 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

18 Q When you evaluate where you want somebody to be,

19 you're going to consider each and every factor to

20 determine which is the best place for her to be. That's

21 what built into my question. Do you consider that overall

22 to be the best place for her to be?

23 A Yes.

24 Q Have you had any discussions with the people at

25 the nursing home, in particular Terry Russell, Elaine






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1 Nelson, Bev Bule, in which they have indicated to you that

2 they may remove Terry from the nursing home because of

3 your behavior?

4 A I haven't had any of those, no. Matter of fact,

5 Terry Russell said, I don't want Terry to leave.

6 Q No one had indicated to you --

7 A Nobody has indicated that to me.

8 Q Okay. The lawsuit that was filed against the

9 doctor who treated your wife. When was that, when was the

10 verdict entered, do you know?

11 A When was the verdict entered?

12 Q Uh-huh.

13 A November tenth.

14 Q 1992?

15 A Uh-huh. Right.

16 Q Do you recall what the verdict was?

17 A Um, they found --

18 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Best evidence. Answer

19 to the best of your ability.

20 BY THE DEPONENT:

21 A To the best of my knowledge, and what I remember,

22 they found Terry 70 percent negligent and Igel 30 percent.

23 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

24 Q What was the total damage award to Terry? Or let

25 me ask this: What was the net damage award to Terry?






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1 MR. NILSSON: Same objection. Best evidence.

2 You're saying how much money actually was going to be

3 paid to Terry or her guardianship?

4 MR. SHEEHAN: Exactly.

5 BY THE DEPONENT:

6 A After everybody else was paid off?

7 MR. NILSSON: Taking out attorneys' fees and

8 all --

9 BY THE DEPONENT:

10 A Attorneys' fees?

11 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

12 Q Yeah. No just give me the net award.

13 MR. NILSSON: What the jury awarded as a total

14 figure that was going to be paid to Terry's

15 guardianship.

16 BY THE DEPONENT:

17 A I think one point two. Don't quote me on one

18 point two.

19 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

20 Q One point two million?

21 A Don't quote me on that.

22 Q There was an award to you, also, correct?

23 A Correct.

24 Q What was the amount of that award?

25 A Um, I think before the 70 was taken out,






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1 something like two point one.

2 Q Two point one?

3 A Million.

4 Q It was a personal award to you, two point one

5 million?

6 A If I'm saying that right, if I understood it

7 right, the way they did it.

8 MR. NILSSON: Same objection. Best evidence.

9 BY THE DEPONENT:

10 A I really don't know how they did the numbers.

11 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

12 Q Okay.

13 A I mean, I'm not a mathematician.

14 Q Well, what I'm asking is: How much did you

15 receive as result of this verdict? Did you receive two

16 point four million dollars?

17 A No. No. I ended up with like 300,000.

18 Q Okay. You were here at the deposition the other

19 day when Mr. Schindler had said that there was an

20 agreement that you and the Schindler's were going to share

21 whatever award you personally received as a result of that

22 lawsuit? Do you recall that testimony?

23 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Misstates the prior

24 testimony. I think it was a commitment.

25 BY THE DEPONENT:






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1 A I don't remember it word for word.

2 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

3 Q But you do recall in general?

4 A I recall something of that, yeah.

5 Q Okay. Was there ever any type of commitment on

6 your part to the Schindler's to share your portion of any

7 award?

8 A No, there was not.

9 Q Was there ever any discussion about that, to your

10 knowledge?

11 A Of an award of money?

12 Q Yes.

13 A There was some possibilities of what we would do

14 with Terry if there was enough money there.

15 Q Tell me what those discussions were.

16 A That's was back in the Roland Lamb days, when

17 Roland Lamb had the case.

18 Q Is that the attorney with --

19 A Glen Woodworth. And Roland would tell us this

20 case was worth 15, 20 million dollars. With that we were

21 shooting around, you know, how nice Terry could live and,

22 you know.

23 And then the case went bust and belly up. And

24 Roland left, and there was no commitments. I didn't even

25 know if I was going to get any money or if Terry was going






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1 to get any money. Glen Woodworth told me that a million

2 times, don't count on anything.

3 Q Did you ever make the statement to either Bob or

4 Mary Schindler, to either of them, that if I receive my

5 money in this lawsuit, I'm going to share it with you?

6 A No.

7 Q Did you ever make a statement similar to that?

8 A No.

9 Q Were there discussions between yourself and the

10 Schindler's about using the money, if you received any

11 money from the lawsuit, to either rent or purchase a house

12 where Terry would actually live with her parents?

13 A There was discussions about that. That was back

14 in the Roland Lamb days when, you know, the 15, 20 million

15 dollars was there. and it kind of like, faded away.

16 When it came up again, my father-in-law wanted to

17 purchase a house with a separate apartment for Terry, so

18 the nurses would have a separate room for the nurses to go

19 in.

20 MR. NILSSON: Objection, unless the witness has

21 finished his answer.

22 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

23 Q Were you finished?

24 A Yeah.

25 Q What was your thoughts about that, about that






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1 arrangement, about Terry living at home with her mother

2 and father?

3 A I wasn't crazy about that. We've had Terry home

4 before, and I took care of her. My father-in-law would

5 tell me all the time that this isn't working out because

6 your mother-in-law is getting upset. She doesn't like to

7 be with Terry at home. She needs to be with professional

8 people.

9 I was the one that used to fight it. I was the

10 one that said, no, I'll take care of her. No, I'll do it.

11 I'll do it. My father-in-law never lifted one finger to

12 help out. I was the one in the -- got up in the middle of

13 the night, every night, checking on Terry. I was the one

14 that slept in her room.

15 Q How long was she at home?

16 A The first time she was home for about four months

17 with us.

18 Q And why did she go back to the nursing home?

19 A Because we could not do it. It got to be too

20 much.

21 Q But you tried it again after that?

22 A She went to Mediplex after that and came home

23 about nine days. We hired round-the-clock nurses.

24 Q After that first time, you feel that you had all

25 reached the conclusion you really couldn't handle her at







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1 home?

2 A I didn't reach that conclusion. I would have

3 liked to brought her home again.

4 Q Why didn't you?

5 A Because it was too much work. I would have like

6 to brought her home, but it was too much work.

7 Q So you did reach the conclusion that it was too

8 much work?

9 A Well, yes. Yes.

10 Q When did you quit work again at Augustino's? I

11 can't remember the exact date you said.

12 A I don't remember the exact dates either. It had

13 to be maybe -- I'd stayed with Terry in ICU -- it was 16

14 days and nights before I even left ICU. Um, I think

15 maybe 15 days later I went back to work and I was with

16 them for about another month.

17 Q So it would be approximately sometime in March or

18 April of --

19 A Probably more towards the end of April.

20 Q -- of 1990?

21 A '91 it would have to be. February, March. Don't

22 hold me to the dates. I'm not good with dates.

23 Q When did you receive any money as a result of the

24 lawsuit?

25 A When?







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1 Q Uh-huh.

2 A Glen Woodworth gave me a check approximately, I

3 think it was a month after.

4 Q So it would be approximately December of '92?

5 A Well, no, it had to be in January, 'cause --

6 yeah, it had to be longer than that.

7 Q What did you live on between April of '91 and

8 January of '93?

9 A Some money that I had. I collected Terry's life

10 insurance; lived on that. Terry and I had some money

11 saved. It was scrimping. My parents helped me out a

12 little bit.

13 Q What money did you use for Terry's treatment?

14 A We had fundraisers for that.

15 Q Can you tell me a little bit about those

16 fundraisers?

17 A It was a bunch of stuff went on. I sat on the

18 beach for two or three weeks selling hotdogs out of a

19 truck, raising money that way, sold pretzels at the beach

20 fest, that way.

21 I went on the T.V. and the news. We got

22 responses that way. Um, some of the neighbors pitched in.

23 We had a Valentine's Day dance for her. When I was out in

24 California, they had a, luminary-type thing, sold wax bags

25 and put sand in it and put a candle in it, stuff like







___

74

1 that.

2 Q Do you know how much money you raised on the

3 fundraiser s?

4 A Offhand, don't hold me to it, but 20,000, maybe,

5 I'm not sure. I'd have to look at records.

6 Q Was it -- was it put in a separate trust?

7 A Uh-huh.

8 Q And who was the trustee of that trust?

9 A My mother-in-law and me, and couple of people

10 from Vina Del Mar Association had to be on it.

11 Q And where was that trust account?

12 A First Union Bank.

13 Q Did you and Terry also have a bank account,

14 separate bank accounts?

15 A Uh-huh.

16 Q Where was that at?

17 A First Union.

18 Q Did you also have a savings account?

19 A Just checking.

20 Q Okay. Did you only have one checking account?

21 A Uh-huh.

22 Q Do you know what the trust account at First Union

23 Bank was called?

24 A Theresa Schiavo Trust Fund.

25 MR. NILSSON: Let me interpose an objection to







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75

1 relevancy. Is this somehow tied in to the

2 allegations that he's not properly taking care of his

3 wife right now?

4 MR. SHEEHAN: What I'm trying to do is, I'm

5 trying to find out how he was living, find out if he

6 was using any of the trust funds?

7 MR. NILSSON: Does that relate to any of the

8 petitions to get her moved?

9 MR. SHEEHAN: I think that would have some

10 relation.

11 MR. NILSSON: You tell me. I don't see it at

12 all. It's not alleged and --

13 MR. SHEEHAN: Well, let me just -- we have

14 alleged that -- we have alleged that there is a real

15 potential conflict of interest and the conflict

16 involves money, it involves his relationship and, you

17 know --

18 MR. NILSSON: As an heir, that's what you say

19 specifically?

20 MR. SHEEHAN: Correct. But I think it is

21 relevant to inquire, at least to determine what his

22 motivation in the future is as to what he's done in

23 the past. That's certainly relevant.

24 MR. NILSSON: Let me think about that one for

25 just a minute.







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76

1 MR. SHEEHAN: I really only have one or two

2 questions.

3 MR. NILSSON: Go ahead.

4 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

5 Q Did you ever use any of the funds from the

6 Theresa Schiavo Trust Fund for your own personal living

7 expenses?

8 A Absolutely not.

9 Q When you went to California, who paid for that

10 trip?

11 A Theresa's trust fund.

12 Q And it paid for your expenses out there?

13 A Yes.

14 Q Your daily rent, food, et cetera, did the trust

15 fund pay for any of that?

16 A Yes.

17 Q So the trust fund really did pay for your

18 daily --

19 A In that instance, yes.

20 Q Okay. When you were not in California, when you

21 were at home in St. Petersburg, did that trust fund money,

22 was that used for rent or food?

23 A No, absolutely not.

24 Q What specifically was it used for?

25 A Well, it was used for the trip to California.







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77

1 Okay. It was used to pay College Harbor Nursing Home. It

2 was used to pay the round the clock nursing care we had

3 when I came home. It was used for some various things

4 that Terry needed. I didn't spend a dime of it on myself.

5 Q Were there any other -- was there any other

6 source of income that you or Terry was receiving at that

7 time other than the trust fund or your own personal

8 savings?

9 MR. NILSSON: Objection. The question is

10 compound. It's vague and it's ambiguous. It

11 missummarizes the prior testimony. He just testified

12 that that trust fund was not a source of income to

13 him and Terry, yet you filtered that in to your

14 question. I think the question is highly improper

15 and can even be answered by the witness. But if you

16 think you can answer it, answer it.

17 BY THE DEPONENT:

18 A There was no money spent on myself.

19 MR. SHEEHAN: That's not my question. And your

20 objection is well taken.

21 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

22 Q Were you or was your wife receiving any income at

23 that time? And I'll leave the question at that.

24 MR. NILSSON: At what time?

25 BY MR. SHEEHAN:







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78

1 Q During the period of time from 1991 when you left

2 your employment to January of 1993?

3 MR. NILSSON: On other than what he's already

4 testified to?

5 MR. SHEEHAN: Yeah. He's testified that there

6 was a trust fund which he did not use for anything

7 other than Terry's care, that there was some funds

8 that you had saved.

9 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

10 Q Was there any other source of income?

11 MR. NILSSON: Let me raise this objection.

12 Sources of income, you know, are -- you had gainful

13 employment, so he was receiving a salary. Are you

14 talking about interest income, dividends? Are you

15 talking about the savings account. If he's got a

16 thousand dollars in savings, he pulls $50 out, do you

17 consider that to be income?

18 MR. SHEEHAN: No. I'm talking about any income

19 from stocks, bonds --

20 MR. NILSSON: Ask him that.

21 MR. SHEEHAN: -- social security.

22 MR. NILSSON: Did you have any income from stocks

23 and bonds?

24 BY THE DEPONENT:

25 A I had social security, Terry's social security







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79

1 check, yes, which was given to me to help live. And this

2 -- that didn't happen for awhile because I was receiving

3 -- Terry couldn't get social security.

4 That's why she couldn't get on Medicaid or

5 Medicare because she was receiving her monthly paycheck as

6 a benefit when you become disabled, you still receive your

7 pay check. Now, I do remember that, I was receiving her

8 paycheck.

9 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

10 Q Any stocks or bonds?

11 A No. No.

12 Q So if I understand it, the only source of income

13 that you had during this period of time would have been

14 her paycheck from work for a year?

15 A Uh-huh.

16 Q Her social security check --

17 A She didn't have a social security check then.

18 Q I understand. That came about a year later?

19 A Right.

20 Q But it was during -- she was receiving some

21 social security during this period of time, 1991 to 1993?

22 A Didn't start till like nine -- middle of '92 she

23 started getting it. Like I said, she was receiving her

24 paycheck.

25 Q Her paycheck, her social security, whenever it







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80
1 kicked in, and whatever savings that you had?

2 A Right.

3 Q Whatever savings you had would have been

4 reflected in your checking account at First Union Bank?

5 A Should be.

6 MR. SHEEHAN: If we can just take another quick

7 break, I think I'm just be done.

8 MR. NILSSON: Sure.

9 (Whereupon, there was a short recess held.)

10 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

11 Q What did you do with your wife's jewelry?

12 A My wife's jewelry?

13 Q Yeah.

14 A Um, I think I took her engagement ring and her --

15 what do they call it -- diamond wedding band and made a

16 ring for myself.

17 Q Okay. Anything else? Did you make any other

18 jewelry for yourself?

19 A No, just that.

20 Q What did you do with her cats?

21 A Her cats were put to sleep on the advice of my

22 mother-in-law.

23 Q Did you open a safe deposit box at First Union in

24 1992?

25 A Uh-huh.







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81

1 Q Did you put ten thousand dollars into that?

2 A Yes.

3 Q And where did you get that money from?

4 A That was the living needs benefit that I received

5 from Terry.

6 Q What was that life insurance?

7 A Uh-huh. It was a couple of checks, and I stuck

8 them in there for safekeeping.

9 Q Anything else that you put in there?

10 MR. NILSSON: Objection.

11 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

12 Q I'll withdraw the question.

13 It's my understanding that you, at least at one

14 time, were treating with a psychiatrist?

15 A Right.

16 Q Who is that?

17 A Doctor Peter Kaplan.

18 Q Are you still treating with him?

19 A No.

20 Q Was this something that -- I mean, the treatment

21 that you received, was this because of what happened to

22 your wife?

23 A Yes.

24 Q And was it for a temporary period of time?

25 A Yes.







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1 Q How long was it for?

2 A Couple years, on, off.

3 Q And now you don't see the doctor?

4 A No. I haven't seen him in over a year.

5 Q Are you on medication?

6 A None.

7 Q At one time were you on medication?

8 A I was prescribed medication, I picked it up and

9 never took it.

10 Q What type medication were you prescribed?

11 A I was on -- I took some, Welbutron one time, some

12 Pamelor. I was on Elavil or Prozac, but I never took the

13 medication. I used to fight the doctors all the time, the

14 family doctor, Doctor Kaplan.

15 Q Let's go back over the medication again. What

16 medications were you prescribed by the doctors, if you

17 recall?

18 A Welbutron, Pamelor, Elavil, Prozac. That's all I

19 can recall. Not all at the same time.

20 Q That's my next question. Were these all

21 prescribed at different times?

22 A Yes. They're like -- maybe, he would prescribe

23 them when I got real down. I mean it's -- I'm talking

24 spans between each one.

25 Q Was there any reason why the doctor changed the







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83

1 medication?

2 A Because a lot of it made me sick to my stomach.

3 A lot of it was clouding my thoughts and I didn't like

4 that. It's an artificial stimulant, and I didn't want to

5 be artificially stimulated.

6 Q You took at least some of it?

7 A Some, but nothing to become addicted, if you want

8 to use that word.

9 Q Did the doctor change your medication from, say,

10 Melabutron to Pamelor --

11 A Welabutron --

12 Q -- to Pamelor at your request?

13 A I called him up and told him I wasn't feeling

14 well on these pills. And he says, well, let's try this.

15 Q Is that what occurred also from, when Pamelor was

16 changed to Elavil?

17 A A lot of them were making me sick to my stomach.

18 Q What about when you were prescribed Prozac?

19 A I don't think -- I think I got the prescription

20 filled, but I don't think I ever took it.

21 Q But you did take the others?

22 A One or two pills, three maybe, never took a whole

23 prescription.

24 Q Did you ever express to Mr. Schindler or Mrs.

25 Schindler at any time that you felt like committing







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84

1 suicide?

2 A Oh, yeah, felt like dying lots of times. Human,

3 you know, a lot of people like to die, you know, expressed

4 that to my own parents.

5 Q When did you express that to them?

6 A When I was down and feeling low and I didn't know

7 how to handle the situation.

8 MR. NILSSON: When in terms of time frame? Can

9 you put a time frame on it?

10 BY THE DEPONENT:

11 A Probably right after this happened to Terry.

12 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

13 Q Did that feeling -- I know you said it wasn't a

14 continual feeling but occurred from time to time -- did

15 that feeling occur from time to time over a period of

16 years?

17 A Um, very long time to times.

18 Q When did you stop treating with Doctor Kaplan?

19 A It's been about eight months, nine months now.

20 Q Since you've stopped with the doctor, have you

21 ever had a feeling that you're so low that you wanted to

22 commit suicide?

23 A No.

24 Q When was the last time before you stopped

25 treating with the doctor that you had that feeling?







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85

1 A Long time ago. Probably -- I can't give you a

2 date or time. I haven't felt it in a very long time,

3 maybe a year, year and two months. I don't know.

4 MR. SHEEHAN: Okay. I don't have any further

5 questions.

6 MR. NILSSON: I've got just a couple questions.

7 CROSS-EXAMINATION

8 BY MR. NILSSON:

9 Q Mr. Sheehan had asked you about your wife's

10 current condition. Is she in a comatose state right now?

11 A Yes, she is.

12 Q Can she feed herself?

13 A No, she can't.

14 Q Can she clothe herself?

15 A No, she can't.

16 Q Can she take a bath by herself?

17 A No, she can't.

18 Q Can she wash herself?

19 A No, she can't.

20 Q Can she maintain her own personal hygiene?

21 A No, she can't.

22 Q Can she go to the toilet by herself?

23 A No, she can't.

24 Q Can she speak?

25 A No, she doesn't.







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86

1 Q Have you ever discussed with any doctor the use

2 of a do not resuscitate order --

3 A Yes.

4 Q -- concerning your wife?

5 A Yes.

6 Q Which doctor did you discuss that with?

7 A Doctor Mulroy.

8 Q And what did Doctor Mulroy say about that?

9 A Um, that it was feasible to do in her condition.

10 Q Did he say whether, in his opinion, it should be

11 done in her condition?

12 A Yes.

13 Q What did he say?

14 A Just said, you know, somebody in Terry's

15 condition, if she were to have a heart attack, they should

16 let it go through the steps without resuscitating.

17 Q Was there a D and R order ever given for Terry?

18 A Yes.

19 Q As a result of that conversation with Doctor

20 Mulroy?

21 A Yes.

22 Q When was that?

23 A The same time the order was given for no

24 treatment.

25 MR. NILSSON: No further questions.







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87

1 REDIRECT EXAMINATION

2 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

3 Q Was that order given by you?

4 A Given by the doctor.

5 Q At your instructions to the doctor?

6 A Yeah. More like not at my instruction as what we

7 were talking about.

8 Q As the guardian, you gave the doctor permission

9 to give that instruction?

10 A Uh-huh, yes.

11 Q You were just talking about Terry's condition.

12 And I want to ask you a question about her response or

13 reaction. Does she know when you are in the room or is

14 there any way that you can tell that she responds to

15 somebody being in the room?

16 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Compound. When you

17 say, does she know if someone's in the room, or do

18 you know if she knows? There's two different points

19 and you're asking the same thing.

20 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

21 Q Let me rephrase it. From your own perceptions,

22 do you think that Terry can perceive when you are in the

23 room or is aware in any way of what's going on around her?

24 A Um, Terry, in my own opinion, has no idea of

25 what's going on.







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88

1 Q There is no expression or any other indication

2 from her movements that she's aware of anything, is that

3 what you're saying?

4 A Right. The expression that she shows, which God

5 left her with, was the expression of pain, and that has

6 been since Terry's been in the coma. Terry -- they know

7 Terry can feel pain.

8 Q They know she can feel pain?

9 A Oh, yes.

10 Q Who has told you that?

11 A Many of the doctors.

12 Q Has Doctor Mulroy told you that?

13 A Sure.

14 Q Just one final question. What was your

15 relationship with your wife before she went into a coma?

16 A Our relationship was great.

17 Q Did you ever have any problems? Did you ever

18 discuss divorce at any time?

19 A We never discussed divorce. There was no need to

20 discuss it.

21 MR. SHEEHAN: Okay. I have nothing further.

22 MR. NILSSON: No questions. We will read.

23 MR. SHEEHAN: I'm not going to order it.

24 MR. NILSSON: I won't order it either.

25 (Whereupon, the deposition was concluded at 3:43 p.m.)







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1

2 STIPULATION

3 It was stipulated by and between counsel and the deponent

4 that the reading and signing of the deposition not be

5 waived.

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90

1 E R R A T A S H E E T

2 In Re: Schindler v Schiavo Case No. 90-2908-GD

3 DO NOT WRITE ON TRANSCRIPT -- ENTER CHANGES HERE:

4 Page No. Line No. Change

5 _______/ ________/ ________________________________/

6 _______/ ________/ ________________________________/

7 _______/ ________/ ________________________________/

8 _______/ ________/ ________________________________/

9 _______/ ________/ ________________________________/

10 _______/ ________/ ________________________________/

11 _______/ ________/ ________________________________/

12 _______/ ________/ ________________________________/

13 _______/ ________/ ________________________________/

14 ______________________________

15 MICHAEL SCHIAVO

16

17 STATE OF FLORIDA

18 COUNTY OF PINELLAS

19 I DO HEREBY CERTIFY THAT MICHAEL SCHIAVO appeared

20 before me and stated that he has read his deposition;

21 further, that this Errata Sheet was signed in my presence on

22 the ____ day of ________________, 1994.

23 _________________________________

24 Notary Public

25







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91

1 STATE OF FLORIDA

2 COUNTY OF PASCO

3 I, DEVERAH BIANCO, Court Reporter and Notary Public

4 in and for the State of Florida at Large, DO HEREBY

5 CERTIFY that MICHAEL SCHIAVO was duly sworn by me.

6 WITNESS MY HAND AND SEAL this 15th day

7 of February, 1994, in the City of the New Port Richey, County

8 of Pasco, State of Florida.

9
<signed>
10 _________________________________

11 Deverah Bianco

12 Notary Public - State of Florida

13 My Commission No.

14

15
<Notary Seal DEVERAH BIANCO>
16 <MY COMMISSION # CC 179034
EXPIRES>
< MARCH 17, 1996 >
17 <BONDED THRU TROY FAIN
INSURANCE, INC.>

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25







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92

1 STATE OF FLORIDA

2 COUNTY OF PASCO

3 I, DEVERAH BIANCO, Court Reporter, DO HEREBY CERTIFY

4 that the foregoing deposition was taken before me at the

5 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand notes

6 were thereafter transcribed into this computer-assisted

7 transcript under my supervision; and the foregoing pages

8 numbered 1 through 91, inclusive, constitute a true and

9 correct record of the testimony given by the deponent.

10 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative, employee,

11 attorney or counsel of the parties, nor financially

12 interested in the foregoing action.

13 DATED this 15th day of February, 1994

14
<signed>
15 ____________________________

16 DEVERAH BIANCO

17

18 SWORN TO AND SUBSCRIBED BEFORE ME this 15th day of

19 February, 1994, by DEVERAH BIANCO, who is personally

20 known to me.

21
<signed>
22 ____________________________

23 Notary Public - State of Florida

24 My Commission No. <OFFICIAL NOTARY
SEAL>
< WENDY A LOKAN
>
25 <NOTARY PUBLIC STATE
OF FLORIDA>
<COMMISSION NO
CC103875>
<MY COMMISSION EXP.
APR. 29, 1995>