IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE SIXTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT
OF THE STATE OF FLORIDA, IN AND FOR PINELLAS COUNTY

------------------------------
:
IN RE: THE GUARDIANSHIP OF :
THERESA MARIE SCHIAVO,:
Incompetent. :
:
-------------------------------
:
ROBERT AND MARY SCHINDLER, :
:
Petitioners, :
vs. : Case No. 90-2908-GD
:
MICHAEL SCHIAVO as Guardian of:
the Person of THERESA MARIE :
SCHIAVO, :
:
Respondent. :
:
------------------------------



DEPOSITION OF: MICHAEL SCHIAVO

TAKEN: Pursuant to Notice
Instance of Petitioners

DATE: November 19, 1993

TIME: Commencing at 1:20 p.m.

PLACE: Steven Nilsson, Esquire
2471 McMullen Booth
Oakbrook Plaza
Suite 308
Clearwater, Florida

BEFORE: DEVERAH BIANCO
Stenographic Court Reporter
and Notary Public - State
of Florida at Large









___






APPEARANCES

STEVEN NILSSON, ESQUIRE
2471 McMullen Booth
Oakbrook Plaza
Suite 308
Clearwater, Florida

Attorney for Petitioners

JAMES SHEEHAN, ESQUIRE
341 3rd Street South
St. Petersburg, Florida 33701

Attorney for Respondent


ALSO PRESENT: Terese Malley
Robert Schindler



INDEX
Page

Direct Examination by Mr. Sheehan 3
Cross-Examination by Mr. Nilsson 84
Redirect Examination by Mr. Sheehan 86
Stipulations 88
Deponent's Signature Page and Errata 89
Court Reporter's Certification Page 90






















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3



1 MICHAEL SCHIAVO,

2 the Deponent herein, having been first duly sworn, was

3 examined and testified as follows:

4 DIRECT EXAMINATION

5 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

6 Q Would you state your name for the record, please?

7 A Michael Schiavo.

8 Q And, Mr. Schiavo, where do you presently reside?

9 A 12190 66th Avenue North.

10 Q And is that a --

11 A Seminole. It's a house. I live with my parents.

12 Q Are you presently -- you're married to Terry

13 Schiavo, correct?

14 A Yes, I am.

15 Q Are you presently involved in a romantic

16 relationship with anyone?

17 A Yes, I am.

18 Q And who is that?

19 MR. NILSSON: I'll instruct the witness not to

20 answer that in terms of identification. If you have

21 other questions about the relationship, though,

22 please ask.

23 MR. SHEEHAN: What is the basis?

24 MR. NILSSON: Just right of privacy.

25 MR. SHEEHAN: Whose right of privacy?






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4


1 MR. NILSSON: That individual's.

2 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

3 Q Okay. Can you at least tell me her first name?

4 MR. NILSSON: I'm going to instruct the witness

5 not to answer that either, but if you have questions

6 about the relationship, other than her name, ask him

7 and they'll be answered.

8 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

9 Q Okay. Tell me about the relationship. How long

10 has it been going on?

11 MR. NILSSON: Objection.

12 BY THE DEPONENT:

13 A We just met approximately three months ago.

14 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

15 Q How often do you see each other?

16 A Weekends, once twice during the week.

17 Q Do you have any future plans involving this

18 person that you're seeing?

19 A We just met.

20 Q Do you have any future involving this person?

21 What do you anticipate?

22 A At the present I have no idea.

23 Q Are you involved in an intimate relationship with

24 this person?

25 A Yes, I am.






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5


1 Q Does this person reside with you --

2 A No.

3 Q -- or does she have her own apartment or house?

4 A She resides by herself.

5 Q Do you stay at her place?

6 MR. NILSSON: Has he ever stayed at her place

7 overnight? Is that what you're asking?

8 MR. SHEEHAN: Yes.

9 BY THE DEPONENT:

10 A Yes.

11 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

12 Q Do you stay there often?

13 A No

14 Q Can you tell me approximately how often you stay

15 there.

16 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Vague. Do you mean how

17 often he spends the night there?

18 MR. SHEEHAN: Uh-huh.

19 BY THE DEPONENT:

20 A Twice a week maybe.

21 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

22 Q How old are you?

23 A I'm sorry?

24 Q How old are you?

25 A Thirty.






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6


1 Q How old is your companion?

2 A Twenty-eight.

3 Q Is this the first relationship that you've been

4 involved in since your wife has been in a coma?

5 A No.

6 Q How many other relationships have you been

7 involved in?

8 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Vague and ambiguous as

9 to what the relationship is.

10 MR. SHEEHAN: Romantic.

11 MR. NILSSON: Same objection. Vague and

12 ambiguous.

13 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

14 Q You can answer.

15 BY THE DEPONENT:

16 A I was in one other relationship.

17 Q Was this with a person named Cindy?

18 A Yes.

19 Q How long did that relationship last?

20 A Yes. About eight months, approximately, give or

21 take.

22 Q Was it an intimate relationship?

23 A Yes.

24 Q Did you and Cindy ever live together?

25 A No.






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7


1 Q Is it true that you and Cindy shared adjoining

2 apartments?

3 A No

4 Q When you become involved in these relationships

5 -- the two relationships that you are describing -- one

6 lasted eight months. Was it an exclusive relationship,

7 the one with Cindy?

8 A What do you mean by exclusive?

9 Q I mean was she the only person you were seeing at

10 the time?

11 A Yes.

12 MR. NILSSON: Objection, other than his wife

13 Terry, you mean.

14 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

15 Q Other than his wife Terry.

16 A Other than my wife Terry, yes, she was the only

17 one.

18 Q And did you see her, like, on weekends like your

19 present relationship?

20 A Yes.

21 Q What -- you've been involved in a relationship

22 for eight months and now you are going in another one for

23 three months, what is your anticipation where the

24 relationships are going to go or do you think about it at

25 all?






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8


1 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Overly broad, vague and

2 ambiguous. Do the best you can.

3 BY THE DEPONENT:

4 A I don't anticipate anything.

5 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

6 Q Do you anticipate that if the relationship

7 continues that you may eventually want to divorce Terry

8 and remarry?

9 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Asks for speculation.

10 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

11 Q You can answer.

12 MR. NILSSON: Just a second. If you --

13 BY THE DEPONENT:

14 A I have no plans of abandoning Terry.

15 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

16 Q My question is not whether you have any plans of

17 abandoning Terry. My question is: Do you anticipate, if

18 this relationship continues, that at some time you may

19 want to divorce Terry and remarry? That was my question.

20 Q What is your understanding of your wife's present

21 medical condition?

22 A As far as overall?

23 Q Overall.

24 A Terry, right now, is in stable condition. She






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9


1 has no skin problems. She gets to the doctor regularly.

2 Q Now --

3 MR. NILSSON: Wait. Please give the witness a

4 chance to finish the question. And I want to make

5 some objections to the question right now. The

6 question is overly broad and assumes this witness is

7 qualified to state every aspect of her medical

8 condition.

9 Please let him finish his answer. You asked a

10 question that has a whole lot of different aspects to

11 it in terms of her condition, mental condition,

12 physical condition. And I would appreciate it if you

13 would let him finish the answer.

14 MR. SHEEHAN: I thought he was finished.

15 BY THE DEPONENT:

16 A Could you repeat the question again now?

17 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

18 Q I was asking you to tell me what her present

19 medical condition was. You indicated that she was stable,

20 that she had no skin problems, that she was seeing a

21 doctor regularly and your attorney object at that point.

22 Was there anything else that you wanted to add?

23 MR. NILSSON: Same objection.

24 BY THE DEPONENT:

25 A She's well taken care of at the present time.






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1 That's all I can think of right now. Depends on what else

2 you'd like to know.

3 Q What is your -- or how do you perceive your

4 responsibility as far as her medical treatment?

5 A Rephrase your question, please.

6 Q Well, my question is: What do you perceive your

7 responsibility as as her guardian with regard to her

8 medical treatment?

9 MR. NILSSON: Objection to the extent requires a

10 legal analysis as to what his legal responsibility

11 is. To the extent you have some understanding of

12 what your perceive your responsibility to be, you

13 know, you can answer that, if you can.

14 MR. SHEEHAN: Before you answer it, let me just

15 say that your objections are preserved, other than to

16 the form of the question. If you want to object to

17 every question, it's certainly your right, but it's

18 unnecessary to do.

19 MR. NILSSON: Jim, I know exactly what that rule

20 says. I've certainly argued it many times in trial.

21 And if I feel like I need to make an objection other

22 than relevancy, I feel that I am entitled --

23 MR. SHEEHAN: I will stipulate that your

24 objections are preserved.

25 MR. NILSSON: Well, I'll still make my objections






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11


1 where I think they're appropriate. I appreciate the

2 offer, though.

3 MR. SHEEHAN: Okay.

4 MR. NILSSON: Well, you're asking him for,

5 basically a legal conclusion.

6 MR. SHEEHAN: No, I'm asking him for his

7 perception of what, and that is a fact question, what

8 he perceives his job is as far as her medical

9 treatment.

10 MR. NILSSON: I want to make it clear you're not

11 asking for a legal analysis?

12 MR. SHEEHAN: Right.

13 MR. NILSSON: That's what my objection was

14 designed to do.

15 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

16 Q You can answer.

17 A My job is to take care of Terry and meet all of

18 her medical needs, to make decisions based on what Terry

19 would want. I'm still vague on your question of what you

20 would want out of that question.

21 Q How often do you meet with the doctor? Do you

22 meet with him on a regular basis?

23 A Terry goes every two months, unless there is

24 something else that comes up, and we take her over there.

25 Q Do you, yourself, meet with the doctor?






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1 A Yes, I do.

2 Q Do you discuss with him such things as what type

3 of treatment he's providing, what type of medication he's

4 providing?

5 A Yes, I do.

6 Q Do you give him direction as to what steps he

7 should take or what things he should or shouldn't do in

8 the future?

9 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Compound. Answer to

10 the best of your ability.

11 BY THE DEPONENT:

12 A I don't tell the doctor what to do. He's gone to

13 school for that.

14 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

15 Q Uh-huh. Have you taken any steps or given any

16 direction to the doctor or the nursing home, and I'm

17 particularly concerned with the area of July and August of

18 this year, with regard to your wife's care or treatment/

19 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Overly broad. Vague

20 and ambiguous. If you can answer it, do so to the

21 best of your ability. Meaning what? Is there

22 something specific you would like to --

23 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

24 Q You know, unfortunately, this is a discovery

25 deposition and the purpose of my questions is to find out






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1 what. I can give you a little factual scenario and see if

2 that will help you?

3 A I'm -- I'm --

4 Q See if that will help you in answering the

5 question. We were contacted -- my office was contacted by

6 the nursing home and they indicated that something had

7 changed as far as the treatment of Terry in July and

8 August and the change had something to do with the

9 direction that you had made, either to the nursing home or

10 to the doctor.

11 My question to you is: Did you -- did you change

12 any directions that you had given to the nursing home or

13 to the doctor prior to that or did you do anything that

14 you're aware of?

15 A Yes.

16 MR. NILSSON: Let me make my objections for the

17 record again. The question is improper. It's a

18 summary. It's a portion of testimony by the person

19 asking the question. It's compound. If you have

20 information that you think answers the question,

21 state it.

22 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

23 Q You said yes?

24 A Yes.

25 Q What did you do or what did you not do?






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1 A I put a -- after speaking with my doctor, I gave

2 an order not to treat a bladder infection Terry had.

3 Q Who was the doctor you spoke with?

4 A Mulroy.

5 Q And Mulroy is your doctor or Terry's doctor?

6 A Terry's doctor.

7 Q Tell me about the conversation you had with

8 Mulroy.

9 A I talked to him about what he felt Terry's future

10 was. And he told me that Terry is basically going to be

11 like this for the rest of her life and I was trying to

12 make decisions on what Terry would want.

13 Q What was her bladder condition?

14 A She had UTI.

15 Q Excuse me?

16 A She had a UTI.

17 Q What is that?

18 A Urinary tract infection.

19 Q What -- did the doctor tell you what the

20 treatment for that would be?

21 A Antibiotic usually.

22 Q And did he tell you what would occur if you

23 failed to treat that infection.

24 A Yes.

25 Q What did he tell you?






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1 A That sometimes urinary tract infections will turn

2 to sepsis.

3 Q And sepsis is what?

4 A And infection throughout the body.

5 Q And what would the result of untreated sepsis be

6 to the patient?

7 A The patient would pass on.

8 Q So when you made the decision not to treat

9 Terry's bladder infection you, in effect, were taking a

10 decision to allow her to pass on?

11 A I was making a decision on what Terry would want.

12 Q I don't think you answered my question. Could

13 you repeat the question?

14 (Whereupon, the pertinent portion of the Record was read

15 back by the Court Reporter.)

16 MR. NILSSON: Let me make an objection that that

17 question seeks a medical opinion, and there's been no

18 testimony that this person's qualified to give a

19 medical opinion that if, in fact, the bladder

20 infection weren't treated, that Terry would die.

21 Answer to the best of your ability.

22 BY THE DEPONENT:

23 A That's what would happen. That's what would

24 happen.

25 BY MR. SHEEHAN:






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1 Q Has the bladder condition been treated?

2 A Yes.

3 Q And was -- what was the reason that the bladder

4 condition was treated?

5 A Sable Palms Nursing Home said they could not do

6 that by some Florida law which wasn't stated.

7 Q But you didn't change your opinion or your

8 decision to not treat the bladder condition?

9 A We did change it.

10 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Asked and answer.

11 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

12 Q Correct?

13 A Repeat your question.

14 Q You did not change your decision not to treat the

15 bladder condition, correct?

16 A I had to change my decision.

17 Q Sable Palms changed it for you?

18 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Arguing with the

19 witness. He said he had to change it based on what

20 Sable Palms position was.

21 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

22 Q Okay. Is there any reason that you would not

23 make the same decision that you previously made if the

24 problem came up again?

25 A Repeat your question again, your losing me here.






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1 Q Let me be more specific. If you're wife

2 developed another condition that could result in her

3 death, is there any reason that you would not take the

4 position that you're not going to treat that condition and

5 you're going to instruct the doctor not to treat that

6 condition?

7 A I wouldn't instruct anybody, no.

8 Q You instructed the doctor not to treat the

9 bladder condition, correct?

10 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Vague. You're talking

11 about the matter he's already told you about or are

12 you speculating --

13 MR. SHEEHAN: Right, I'm going back to --

14 MR. NILSSON: You're trying to summarize what he

15 already testified to.

16 MR. SHEEHAN: I'm not trying to summarize. I'm

17 asking a question.

18 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

19 Q You did instruct the doctor not to treat her

20 bladder condition correct?

21 A Uh-huh, yes.

22 Q If a similar condition arose in the future,

23 would you do the same thing?

24 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Asked and answered. He

25 just told you he wouldn't instruct anybody to do






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1 anything.

2 MR. SHEEHAN: I don't think he did.

3 BY THE DEPONENT:

4 A I'm thinking.

5 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

6 Q Take your time.

7 A I probably wouldn't instruct the doctor to do it.

8 Q So you've changed your opinion?

9 A Sort of, yeah.

10 Q Why have you changed your opinion?

11 A Because evidently there is a law out there that

12 says I can't do it.

13 Q Is that the only reason?

14 A Basically, maybe.

15 MR. NILSSON: Move to strike the witness'

16 statement, saying there being a law that says he

17 couldn't do it. The witness is not qualified to say

18 what the law is.

19 MR. SHEEHAN: He's qualified to say what his

20 reasons are. What the law is something that will be

21 decided by the court.

22 MR. NILSSON: I move to strike his statement as

23 to there being a law that prohibits it. I'm not

24 aware of it. You're not aware of it. And this

25 witness has not been shown to be qualified to make






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1 the statement about a law that doesn't exist.

2 MR. SHEEHAN: He's talking about his perception.

3 He's qualified to state what his reasons are and what

4 his perceptions are. The law will take care of

5 itself.

6 MR. NILSSON: But none the less, I can move to

7 strike his statement of what the law is. I've done

8 it.

9 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

10 Q What you're telling me is, is that there is

11 nothing in your belief or feelings that have changed. The

12 only thing that has changed is the fact that you perceived

13 the law prevents you to do what you intended to do?

14 A Correct.

15 Q Okay. Are you presently employed?

16 A No, I'm not.

17 Q What was the last job that you held?

18 A I worked for, Augustinos Restaurant.

19 Q When was that, do you know?

20 A I've been gone from there for four years now.

21 Q And what did you do at Augustinos?

22 A I was the manager.

23 Q What -- why did you leave?

24 A 'Cause of Terry.

25 Q And you haven't worked in four years?






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1 A Nope. No.

2 Q Have you looked for work?

3 A No, I go to school.

4 Q Where do you go to school?

5 A St. Pete J.C.

6 Q How long have you been going to school?

7 A Two, almost two and-a-half years now.

8 Q What subjects or what course of study are you

9 doing?

10 A Medical.

11 Q Is that nursing school?

12 A Um, I just graduated EMT school, and I'm starting

13 in August of '94, I'm going into the respiratory program.

14 Q What do you anticipate getting your degree in,

15 and what profession do you anticipate --

16 A Respiratory therapy.

17 Q Where did you work before Augustinos?

18 A Feather Sound Country Club.

19 Q What do you do there?

20 A I was the assistant food and beverage manager.

21 Q How long did you work at Augustinos?

22 A Three years, maybe; two and-a-half years, three

23 years.

24 Q Did you leave right after Terry went into a coma?

25 A Shortly after, yes.






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1 Q And how long did you work at Feather Sound?

2 A A month.

3 Q What happened there?

4 A I was offered the job at Augustinos.

5 Q Where did you work before Feather Sound?

6 A I opened the Columbia at the pier.

7 Q You say you opened it, were you the manager of

8 the Columbia?

9 A I was one of the managers.

10 Q How long did you work there?

11 A Approximately a year and-a-half.

12 Q What was your reason for leaving there?

13 A Lots of hours, wasn't able to see Terry.

14 Q So you quit?

15 A Uh-huh.

16 Q And before the Columbia?

17 A I worked for Dolphin Beach Resort for a couple of

18 weeks.

19 Q And what did you do there?

20 A Food and beverage manager.

21 Q How long did you work there?

22 A About a month or so.

23 Q And what was your reason for leaving?

24 A I was offered the job at the Columbia.

25 Q Prior to the Dolphin Beach?






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1 A I'm sorry.

2 Q Prior to the Dolphin Beach?

3 A I worked for Breckenridge Resort and Hotel.

4 Q Out on St. Pete Beach?

5 A Yes.

6 MR. NILSSON: Can we have a time frame at this

7 point?

8 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

9 Q What year was that?

10 A Um, trying to think when I moved there. 1986,

11 approximately '86, '87, something like that.

12 Q Was that your first job in Florida?

13 A No.

14 Q What was your first job?

15 A Olga's Kitchen.

16 Q What did you do there?

17 A Manager.

18 Q How long did you work there?

19 A Year.

20 Q And what was your reason for leaving?

21 A I believe I went to the Breckenridge.

22 Q So you were offered the job at the Breckenridge

23 and you left?

24 A I'm not very sure how that happened. I think

25 that's the way it worked.






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1 Q And you worked at Breckenridge for how long?

2 A I was there for a while, a year and-a-half.

3 Q And your reason for leaving the Breckenridge?

4 A They hired a management company. They brought

5 their own people in.

6 Q Now, when you left Augustinos to take care of

7 Terry, what -- was there a need at that time for you to be

8 a caretaker full time?

9 A My own personal need, yes.

10 Q What was happening at that time?

11 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Overly broad. Vague

12 and ambiguous in politics, in the world, what?

13 BY MR. SHEEHAND:

14 Q With the treatment of your wife.

15 A Terry was basically still on life supports when I

16 left Augustinos.

17 Q Was she at home? Was she in the hospital?

18 A No, she was still in the hospital.

19 Q What hospital was she in?

20 A Human Northside.

21 Q How long was she at Humana Northside?

22 A She was there for a good two and-a-half, three

23 months.

24 Q How long after she left Humana Northside did you

25 take her to California?






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1 A Had to be maybe -- I don't know, don't hold me to

2 dates or times -- six, eight months later.

3 Q And what was the purpose of taking her to

4 California?

5 A There was some experimental surgery that I heard

6 about.

7 Q Do you remember the doctor you went to see out

8 there?

9 A Doctor Yoshio Hosobuchi.

10 MR. NILSSON: Can you spell that name?

11 THE DEPONENT: If I had a piece of paper I can.

12 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

13 Q Prior to her -- to Terry going to see Doctor

14 Hosobuchi, who was her main treating physician here?

15 A At that time?

16 Q Yeah.

17 A Before she left it was -- well, there was so

18 many. She had Doctor Shamir Shaw was still seeing her

19 when she was at College Harbor.

20 Q She didn't have, like, one main treating

21 physician?

22 A Doctor Barras, David Barras would probably be --

23 she went to Bayfront.

24 Q Does Doctor Barras still see her?

25 A No.






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1 Q Is there a reason that he doesn't see her

2 anymore?

3 A I think his last words were, awhile ago, that

4 there is nothing more he could do for her.

5 Q Okay. Tell me about Doctor Hosobuchi and his

6 treatment of Terry?

7 A Well, the basic thing was we took her to

8 California. He had some experimental stimulators that he

9 was placing in peoples' heads. There were some people

10 that woke up.

11 It's a whole protocol on it. I don't have it

12 with me. But it would be very experimental. He put it

13 in. He did some testing. There was no evidence of it

14 working with Terry.

15 The only thing it would do, when he turned it up

16 passed a certain point Terry would just sit up, which was

17 just motor response. She would just get real bright eyed

18 because things were being stimulated. He wasn't thrilled

19 about it because he didn't see any positive signs.

20 Q Was -- did he implant anything into her? Did he

21 put anything in her head that remained?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Are they still?

24 A Yes.

25 Q What are they?






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1 A Electrodes. They're platinum electrodes.

2 Q Did he suggest any future treatment that was

3 experimental --

4 A Treatment for what?

5 Q -- in California. Diagnostic testing, anything

6 of that nature?

7 A No. When Doctor Yingling was here, he came out

8 and, basically, if it didn't work within --

9 MR. NILSSON: The question is with whoever the

10 doctor was in California.

11 MR. SHEEHAN: Is there an objection? He's

12 answering the question.

13 MR. NILSSON: I'm going to ask the witness to be

14 responsive. You're asking about a different doctor

15 than Yingling. Your question was about the doctor in

16 California.

17 MR. SHEEHAN: I think his answer is responsive to

18 my question. Just the fact that there is another

19 doctor involved, let him answer.

20 MR. NILSSON: I want the witness to be responsive

21 to the question. If you're asking about the doctor

22 in California, that's what I want the witness to tell

23 you about to the extent he has knowledge.

24 MR. SHEEHAN: If he's not responding to my

25 question, I think that's my objection.






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1 MR. NILSSON: Well, it's my objection.

2 MR. SHEEHAN: We can do this all day.

3 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

4 Q You started to --

5 A Repeat your question.

6 Q My question was: Was there a suggestion of

7 further diagnostic testing or procedures after the

8 treatment by Doctor Hosobuchi in California?

9 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Overly broad. Vague

10 and ambiguous.

11 BY THE DEPONENT:

12 A As far as I can remember --

13 MR. NILSSON: Are you talking about a suggestion

14 by that doctor in California? Jim, I don't mean to

15 be funny with you, but there's lots of doctors. Are

16 you asking about all the doctors; any treatment after

17 that?

18 MR. SHEEHAN: I'll tell you what -- I will tell

19 you what, if you want to play this game, I'm going to

20 ask him about Doctor Hosobuchi, and then my next

21 question is going to be about Doctor Yingling.

22 Eventually, we're going to get to it.

23 MR. NILSSON: Okay. That's fine. But for you to

24 ask any suggestion of further analysis after some

25 event in California when that could have happened a






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28


1 dozen times, to me, it's overly broad, vague and

2 ambiguous.

3 Now, if you got the doctor in California and want

4 to know what the doctor said, ask him that question

5 and if you don't, I'm going to object.

6 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

7 Q Did Doctor Hosobuchi, after he saw Terry,

8 recommend any further diagnostic procedures?

9 A He recommended that Doctor Yingling would be

10 doing it.

11 Q So did she see Doctor Yingling?

12 A She -- Doctor Yingling came out here, I believe,

13 a year later.

14 Q And that was at the suggestion of Doctor

15 Hosobuchi?

16 A That, I have no idea.

17 Q Okay. What did Doctor Yingling say or do, to

18 your knowledge?

19 A He came out -- Terry was at Mediplex -- he came

20 out and did some testing, and he needed a CP-900 machine

21 or something from Shands, and it wasn't available, and he

22 said it wasn't no big deal.

23 He told me he had -- he didn't see any evident

24 sign that the stimulator was working, did some tests with

25 Terry. Nothing was new with her from the time he had last






___
29


1 seen her. And that was basically it. We took him out to

2 dinner and he had loads of wine and that was it. He

3 spilled it all over our couch.

4 Q Other than the Doctor Hosobuchi and Doctor

5 Yingling -- was Doctor Yingling also from California?

6 A Yes.

7 Q And he was somebody that Doctor Hosobuchi

8 suggested see Terry?

9 A He was Hosobuchi's assistant.

10 Q Has she seen any other experts since that time?

11 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Overly broad and

12 ambiguous.

13 BY THE DEPONENT:

14 A What type of experts?

15 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

16 Q Since Doctor Yingling saw her, what physicians

17 have seen her?

18 A She's seen Doctor Lyles.

19 Q And who is Doctor Lyles?

20 A He's a physiatrist -- I don't know how to say

21 that --

22 Q Physiatrist?

23 A Yeah -- at Health South. She has seen Doctor

24 Becker for gastrostomy problems. Doctor Mina Chang for

25 gynecology. Doctor Porter for her teeth. Doctor Harrison






___
30


1 for neurology. Doctor Mulroy.

2 Q What is Mulroy's specialty?

3 A He's an internist. Doctor Joan Brown,

4 podiatrist. Um, there is a GI doctor and I can't remember

5 his name. I'm sure there is a couple of other doctors

6 she's seen, I just can't remember their names.

7 Q Okay. How often does Doctor Harrison see her, do

8 you know?

9 A He's seen her --

10 MR. NILSSON: You're talking right now, as we

11 sit?

12 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

13 Q Yeah. I mean does he see her on a regular basis

14 now?

15 A No.

16 Q When was the last time he saw her?

17 A Yesterday.

18 Q When was the last time before that?

19 A She didn't.

20 Q So Doctor Harrison saw her for the first time

21 yesterday?

22 A Yes, on the advice of Doctor Lyles to go see her

23 or him.

24 Q Okay. When was the last time Terry had seen a

25 neurologist?






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31


1 A I'd have to look up some records. I don't

2 remember.

3 Q Has it been years?

4 A No, I don't think it's been years.

5 Q Has a neurologist seen her since Doctor Yingling

6 saw her?

7 A I don't recall.

8 Q Have any diagnostic tests been performed since

9 Doctor Yingling saw Terry?

10 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Overly broad,

11 ambiguous. You mean of the neurology strain?

12 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

13 Q Okay. Of a neurology strain.

14 A I don't recall. There could have been. I don't

15 recall.

16 Q Now, you said Doctor Lyles had referred Terry to

17 Doctor Harrison?

18 A Uh-huh.

19 Q And when did Doctor Lyles suggest that Terry see

20 Doctor Harrison?

21 A We had Terry over there last week, I believe.

22 And he suggested it then.

23 Q What was the purpose of bringing Terry to see

24 Doctor Lyles last week?

25 A We -- to get Theresa off medication called






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32


1 Tegratol, which is for seizures.

2 Q Who put her on Tegratol?

3 A Doctor Hosobuchi.

4 Q So she had been on Tegratol for quite awhile?

5 A Uh-huh, yes.

6 Q And was it your decision that you wanted to have

7 her taken off the medication?

8 A It was my and Doctor Lyle's decision.

9 Q Well, you indicated that the purpose of taking

10 her to Doctor Lyles was to have her taken off Tegratol?

11 A No, I didn't say that.

12 Q What was the purpose of taking her to Doctor

13 Lyles?

14 A 'Cause he was looking at her hip.

15 Q Uh-huh. What happened to her hip?

16 A It was starting to turn out and turned out it was

17 just tone; they were trying to correct the problem.

18 Q So the purpose of taking her to see Doctor Lyles

19 was really for treatment of her hip?

20 A Uh-huh.

21 Q And at that time --

22 A He -- go ahead.

23 Q -- he suggest that you take her off Tegratol?

24 A The Tegratol subject came up.

25 Q How did it come up?






___
33


1 A He had seen her before and Terry's Tegratol level

2 has been real high and he was kind of concerned because

3 she was lethargic. And I mentioned about the Tegratol and

4 she's still real lethargic. He told me the best thing for

5 us to do was take her over to Doctor Harrison.

6 Q What did Doctor Harrison say?

7 A That there is no seizure activity and probably

8 wouldn't present a problem taking her off that.

9 MR. NILSSON: Are you asking for everything

10 Doctor Harrison said to him?

11 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

12 Q Yeah.

13 A Doctor Harrison sent to me, when the EEG was

14 done, sat me down in the office and he says that her EEG

15 is so depressed and why do you let her live. And he said

16 to me that this woman died four years ago, and it's such a

17 tragic thing. And he said to me, I noticed you've taken

18 her to Largo Medical Center for some treatments and he

19 says that next time she gets an infection, not to treat

20 it.

21 And then we started talking about -- he said,

22 remove the feeding tube. And I told him I couldn't do

23 that to Terry. And then he says -- then he said to me,

24 well --

25 Q Go ahead.






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34


1 A There is no seizure activity, so it wouldn't

2 present a problem of taking her off the Tegratol.

3 Q Was it Doctor Harrison's suggestion the feeding

4 tube be removed?

5 A It wasn't a suggestion, it was just talk. He

6 just mentioned it.

7 Q How did he mention it? What did he say?

8 A He was talking about removing the feeding tubes,

9 and I said I couldn't do that to Terry.

10 Q Was this the first -- this was the first time she

11 had seen Doctor Harrison?

12 A Yes, it was.

13 Q Do you know Doctor Harrison at all?

14 A No, I do not.

15 Q Other than a referral from Doctor Lyles?

16 A Just a referral from Doctor Lyles.

17 Q The things that Doctor Harrison said to you

18 yesterday, have they ever been said to you by another

19 physician?

20 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Overly broad and vague.

21 Compound. Ambiguous. Is there any aspect of what

22 was said of the many things that you are curious

23 about?

24 MR. SHEEHAN: He just testified that the doctor

25 said her EEG is so depressed, why do you let her






___
35


1 live. This woman died four years ago. Next time she

2 has an infection, don't treat it. There is no

3 seizure activity. Those were the things he testified

4 to.

5 I asked him the things that the doctor told you,

6 has any other physician ever told you that.

7 MR. NILSSON: Jim, let me make my objection to

8 you. There are a whole lot of things that Harrison

9 said, not just the things you just stated, those were

10 stated, but many other things, too.

11 If you have a particular point of interest, such

12 as taking the feeding tube or lack of EEG response,

13 or any of those things, why don't you just ask him

14 that specifically. And ask him if any of the other

15 doctors have discussed those points with him as

16 opposed to giving him ten unknown things to try --

17 given by all the doctors, you know, it's just overly

18 broad. That's my objection.

19 Let the question stand if you want, subject to my

20 objection. He can do the best he can to answer.

21 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

22 Q Do you understand my question?

23 A I don't recall speaking of it with any other

24 doctor.

25 Q So when you made the decision on your own not to






___
36


1 treat or instructed the doctor not to treat Terry's

2 infection -- her bladder infection, no physician had made

3 the statements that Doctor Harrison had made to you at

4 that time, did they?

5 MR. NILSSON: You're going not from this

6 conversation with Harrison, but back to a time when

7 he had testified previous about don't treat the

8 bladder infection. You're asking if he had a

9 conversation with a doctor about that?

10 MR. SHEEHAN: I'm asking him if any physician

11 made the statements that Harrison made to him prior

12 to the time that he made the decision not to treat

13 Terry's bladder infection.

14 MR. NILSSON: Well, I agree that was your

15 question, and I had four or five different objections

16 I made to it, all of which I think are proper. You

17 know, and I think -- I really think the witness was

18 mislead. If you have a specific question -- if you

19 want to ask about the --

20 MR. SHEEHAN: That was my question.

21 MR. NILSSON: I have the same objection. Overly

22 broad. It's vague. It's ambiguous. It's compound.

23 It covers a lot of different things that we talked

24 about Harrison, none of which this witness can hold

25 in his mind for one moment and give you a direct






___
37


1 response. And it's very unfair to this witness.

2 If you want to ask about prior treatment, if he

3 ever talked to a doctor about it, ask him that, Jim,

4 and he'll tell you. But, you know, to throw

5 everything in one bag and hope he picks the right

6 thing, I think is unfair and improper.

7 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

8 Q Let me see if we can start over again in all

9 fairness to the witness.

10 Prior to your making -- you know, the decision

11 that we're talking about, the decision that you made not

12 to treat your wife's bladder infection --

13 A Uh-huh.

14 Q Okay?

15 A Yes.

16 Q Prior to your making that decision, had any

17 physician ever suggested to you that if she has an

18 infection in the future, that you don't treat it or that

19 you allow her to die?

20 MR. NILSSON: Compound.

21 BY THE DEPONENT:

22 A Well, I went and talked to Doctor Mulroy about

23 it.

24 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

25 Q And what was Doctor Mulroy's advice to you, if






___
38


1 any?

2 A Not to treat the infection.

3 Q Okay. That was his advice?

4 A Uh-huh.

5 Q So your answer is yes, Doctor Mulroy had advised

6 you the same as Doctor Harrison advised you?

7 A (Nodding affirmatively.)

8 MR. NILSSON: Objection.

9 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

10 Q As to not treating the infection?

11 MR. SHEEHAN: How's that? Strike the question.

12 I'd like to take a little break at this point.

13 MR. NILSSON: That's fine.

14 (Whereupon, there was a short recess held.)

15 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

16 Q Do you know if your wife, Terry, has a living

17 will?

18 A No.

19 Q No, she doesn't?

20 A She doesn't have a living will.

21 Q When you say that you've taken some action based

22 on what she would have wanted, is that based on what you

23 think she would have wanted?

24 A It's based on what she would want.

25 Q How do you determine what she would want?






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1 A She was my wife. I lived with her. We shared

2 things. We shared a bed. We shared our thoughts. And

3 one incident in particular, a few years back when her

4 grandmother was -- Grandmother Shindler -- she was in and

5 out of a coma. She was in. She was out. She was real

6 sick. And we'd go see her, and we had a vacation planned,

7 to come here to Florida; myself, my brother and my wife.

8 So when we left, her grandmother was still

9 critical. We left, got on the train, and we had this

10 conversation about her grandmother and things like that.

11 And we started talking about her uncle, her uncle Fred,

12 who had lost his wife and child tragically in a train

13 wreck. And he was on an emotional roller coaster. He was

14 a very distraught person, agreeably, after losing your

15 wife and child on a train wreck.

16 And, I guess, I believe he went out one night had

17 a few drinks and wrapped his car around a telephone pole.

18 And her uncle was in a coma for awhile and emerged a man

19 that she never knew anymore. He was disabled. He can't

20 walk. He can't do things for himself. His kids are his

21 Power of Attorney now. We got into discussion about that

22 and she said to me, I would never want to live like that.

23 I would want to just die.

24 Q So what you're saying is from that conversation,

25 you have determined that you know what she would want in






___
40


1 these circumstances?

2 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Argumentative.

3 Misstates the testimony which was other things beyond

4 that conversation, but that was the main thing.

5 BY THE DEPONENT:

6 A I'm sorry?

7 MR. SHEEHAN: Can you repeat the question.

8 (Whereupon, the pertinent portion of the Record was read

9 back by the Court Reporter.)

10 BY THE DEPONENT:

11 A Yes.

12 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

13 Q And you think that she would have wanted to die?

14 A Yes.

15 Q Have you made the statement that at any time, to

16 the Schindler's or -- to the Schindler's, that you didn't

17 want Terry to come out of the coma because it would not be

18 in her better interest?

19 A I made that comment, yes.

20 Q Tell me what you meant by that comment.

21 A At the point of the coma that Terry's in now,

22 she's a total quadriplegic. Okay? In my own feelings, if

23 Terry were to wake up and see herself the way she is now,

24 she wouldn't even want to live like that.

25 Q Who has told you that she is a total






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41


1 quadriplegic?

2 A I can't remember the doctor's name, but back in

3 probate, when I was -- the doctor was testifying in front

4 of the judge, he mentioned that Terry was a total

5 quadriplegic. You'd have to pull records on that one.

6 Q Has a physician told you that even if she comes

7 out of the coma that she will be a total quadriplegic?

8 A I believe Doctor Barras said that to me once.

9 Q And that's the basis for your statement that

10 she'd be better off not coming out of the coma?

11 MR. NILSSON: Objection, misstates. Vague and

12 ambiguous. As to what, the statement of Doctor

13 Barras? The question is vague as to what you infer,

14 in fact, was the basis.

15 MR. SHEEHAN: I'll withdraw the question.

16 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

17 Q Did Doctor Yingling -- when he was here in

18 Florida seeing Terry -- did he ever suggest that she be

19 taken to Shands Clinic in Gainesville for neurological

20 testing?

21 A No.

22 Q Was she ever taken to Shands for neurological

23 testing?

24 A No.

25 Q Did Doctor Yingling find any change whatsoever in






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42


1 Terry's condition from the findings of Doctor Hosobuchi?

2 MR. NILSSON: Objection to the extent you're

3 asking what the doctor found. The doctor is the one

4 who has knowledge of it. This witness hasn't been

5 shown to have knowledge of it. You're asking what

6 the doctors told this witness?

7 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

8 Q To your knowledge; to your knowledge?

9 A To my knowledge?

10 Q Uh-huh.

11 A He found no change.

12 Q You did discuss that with him, didn't you?

13 A Oh, of course, my mother-in-law was there.

14 Q You asked him specifically was there any change

15 from when Doctor Hosobuchi saw her the previous year?

16 A Uh-huh, yes.

17 Q He replied that there wasn't?

18 A There was, I believe -- and don't hold me to his

19 exact words -- there was minimal change. Nothing

20 significant. Nothing consistent.

21 Q Did you ask him if he had any suggestions for

22 treatment?

23 A I don't recall asking him that.

24 Q Was there any discussions between yourself and

25 the doctor about treatment?






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43


1 A I don't recall. It was two years ago when he was

2 here.

3 Q You don't recall whether he suggested that she

4 have any further treatment?

5 A I think what he wanted to do at the time was get

6 the CP-900 machine from Shands, and it couldn't be done,

7 and it was left at that.

8 Q Explain that to me. He wanted a machine brought

9 down to St. Petersburg --

10 A Uh-huh.

11 Q -- from Shands?

12 A That's what I believe he wanted done, yes.

13 Q Was there any problem with taking Terry to Shands

14 rather than having the machine transported?

15 A I think my biggest problem was money.

16 Q Was there -- at least there was a suggestion by

17 the doctor that she be tested neurologically with this

18 machine?

19 A I don't recall if that was a suggestion or not.

20 I think -- I think he was trying to work on getting

21 Mediplex's machine when she was admitted to Mediplex.

22 Q Tell me about this machine. What do you know

23 about it?

24 A Nothing.

25 Q Do you know what the purpose of the testing was?






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44


1 A Brain waves. I believe it was to see what the

2 stimulator was doing.

3 Q Okay. Did the doctor think that this was

4 something that should have been done?

5 MR. NILSSON: Objection as it to what the doctor

6 thought. You can say what the doctor told you.

7 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

8 Q Okay. Fair enough. Did the doctor tell you that

9 he thought this was something that should be done?

10 A Um, I don't recall whether he said that or not.

11 Q Okay. But your recollection is that he wanted

12 the machine to come to St. Petersburg to test Terry?

13 A My recollection is, yes.

14 Q And that didn't happen because?

15 A If I remember correctly, the machine wasn't even

16 at Shands and nobody knew where it was.

17 Q Okay. And you couldn't transport Terry to Shands

18 because you didn't have the money at the time?

19 A Correct.

20 Q You do have the money now?

21 A That's none of your business.

22 MR. NILSSON: Well --

23 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

24 Q It is my business.

25 MR. NILSSON: Are you asking about his personal






___
45


1 funds or the guardian funds for his wife?

2 MR. SHEEHAN: I'm asking him if he has the money

3 to transport his wife.

4 MR. NILSSON: If he personally has money?

5 MR. SHEEHAN: No, he's the guardian and there are

6 guardianship funds. He may not be the trustee, but

7 there is money available.

8 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

9 Q That's my question. There is money available now

10 to transport her to Shands to have that testing done,

11 isn't there?

12 A Yes.

13 Q But that has not been done?

14 A No.

15 Q Is there a reason why that hasn't been done?

16 A I haven't talked to Doctor Yingling in a year and

17 a half.

18 Q Do you have any reason to believe that Doctor

19 Yingling's opinion has changed?

20 A I have no idea what his opinion is.

21 Q Okay. There was some testimony the other day at

22 Mr. Schindler's deposition that you lived with the

23 Schindler's for a period of time. Is that correct?

24 A The Schindler's lived with me in my house.

25 Q Okay. When was that?






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46


1 A The year?

2 Q Yeah.

3 A It's '93 now, maybe '92.

4 Q And approximately how long did you and the

5 Schindler's live together?

6 A We lived at Hermacida approximately a year. We

7 lived at the other house approximately four to six months.

8 Q Can you describe, in general terms, what your

9 relationship with the Schindler's was at that time?

10 A Relationship was fine. They did their thing; I

11 did my thing.

12 Q Were you all working closely together to deal

13 with Terry's treatment?

14 A I think my mother-in-law and I were the only ones

15 that did it. She could do it anyway because if I wasn't

16 there, she didn't get anywhere.

17 Q There was a statement that you and her worked

18 very closely together during this time. Is that a true

19 statement?

20 A For the most part we worked closely.

21 Q What was the purpose of everybody living in the

22 same house?

23 A Well, the suggestion came from my father-in-law.

24 Q And what was the purpose of it?

25 A I believe because he was having financial






___
47


1 difficulties and he wanted to get a house together.

2 Q Prior to that you lived in a condo that he

3 owned?

4 A Yes, I did.

5 Q And how long did you live there?

6 A I don't remember, approximately a year maybe.

7 Q Okay. Did you always pay your rent?

8 A Not always.

9 Q Were there times that you didn't pay the rent and

10 your father-in-law let you slide?

11 A Sure.

12 Q There came a time when your relationship with

13 Mary and Bob Schindler deteriorated, is that correct?

14 A Right. Correct.

15 Q And can you pinpoint when that happened?

16 A February 14.

17 Q 1993?

18 A Yes, '93.

19 Q Tell me what happened.

20 A I was sitting in the room doing my studies for

21 EMT.

22 Q What room?

23 A Terry's room. She was sitting in front of me in

24 her chair. I was sitting there studying, and they came in

25 late and I was studying and --






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48


1 Q Was this at the nursing home?

2 A Uh-huh.

3 Q Okay.

4 A And my father-in-law's usual question to me was,

5 how much money am I going to get, is what he said to me.

6 And I said, nobody was going to get any money right now.

7 And he said what do you mean, this is my daughter. And he

8 just went on. And to shut him up, I said, look, I gave

9 all my money to Terry. I don't have any money.

10 He looked at me, pointed his finger at me and

11 then pointed his finger at Terry and said, how much money

12 is she going to give me. I said to him, you'll have to

13 call the guardianship. I'm not the guardian over her

14 property. You'll have to get in touch with the bank.

15 He goes off and says, I'm getting on this

16 guardianship and tell you how to do this. And he walked

17 out of the room and called me a fucking jerk off. That's

18 when I got up, I pushed the bedside table aside. He shut

19 the door. My mother-in-law ran over to the door in

20 between me and the door.

21 I opened the door, and he's standing outside and

22 we went face to face. And he started saying that this is

23 his daughter morally and I said, that's great. He's going

24 to get a lawyer, and he started coming down on me. He's

25 going to get a lawyer. I said, fine, let's get a lawyer.






___
49


1 And I walked down the hallway and I called my lawyer.

2 And I said to him that if he didn't like me

3 making decisions to leave. You own this nursing home now.

4 That's when I went down and called my lawyer.

5 Q Anything else that you recall?

6 A Not at the present time.

7 Q Okay. Did you ever tell Mr. and Mrs. Schindler

8 that they could not come to the nursing home?

9 A I never told them that.

10 Q Did you ever instruct anybody at the nursing home

11 not to provide any information about her -- about Terry's

12 medical condition to the Schindler's after that?

13 A I instructed the nursing home not to give out any

14 information about Terry's medical condition to anybody but

15 me or the doctor.

16 Q When did you make that?

17 A It happened a few weeks after Terry -- or maybe a

18 week after Terry came out of Largo Medical Center.

19 Q Which was when?

20 A It was in March, I believe.

21 Q March of '93?

22 A Yes. Yes, '93.

23 Q Okay. Prior to this altercation -- we will call

24 it an altercation -- of February 14, the relationship that

25 you had with the Schindler's was fairly amicable?






___
50


1 A Yeah, I believe.

2 Q And they -- prior to that time they had access to

3 the medical records and they could talk to the physicians

4 and the nursing home people about their daughter, is that

5 correct?

6 A Correct.

7 Q Okay. And after that period of time that

8 changed, didn't it?

9 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Overly broad and

10 ambiguous. Are you talking about the access to the

11 daughter, are you talking about medical information?

12 MR. SHEEHAN: I'm talking about the previous

13 question. Everybody in this room understands it.

14 BY THE DEPONENT:

15 A I don't.

16 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

17 Q I figured you wouldn't?

18 A Why do you say that?

19 MR. NILSSON: Let him rephrase it or whatever. I

20 won't argue with you. I'll make my objection. Ask

21 him understandable questions and I won't object.

22 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

23 Q All right. After the altercation on February 14,

24 1993, the Schindler's were not allowed any information

25 concerning their daughter's immediate condition, is that






___
51


1 correct?

2 A The order was given not to give out any

3 information to anybody but myself or the doctor.

4 Q Okay. And what was -- why was that order given?

5 A Because I figured that -- the nursing home was

6 having problems, first off, with the certified nurses aids

7 giving wrong information out over the phone -- information

8 to family. And second of all, since my in-laws showed no

9 care about showing up or calling me when Terry was in the

10 hospital, I figured they didn't care.

11 Q Explain that. The Schindler's showed no care

12 about what?

13 A Terry being in the hospital in March.

14 Q Are you saying that you didn't think they cared

15 about their daughter at all?

16 A They never showed up.

17 Q So the reason that they were not at the hospital

18 -- because they were not at the hospital in March you

19 decided that they should not ever have any access to her

20 medical records or medical treatment again?

21 MR. NILSSON: Objection. Misstates and

22 missummarizes the witness's prior testimony about all

23 the events leading up to that point in time.

24 MR. SHEEHAN: Is that right?

25 MR. NILSSON: If you agree with exactly what he






___
52


1 said, say it. If you disagree, say it.

2 BY THE DEPONENT:

3 A I agree.

4 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

5 Q When you made the decision that you were not

6 going to treat Terry's infection and you were going to in

7 effect allow her to die, did you think that you had any

8 obligation to tell her parents?

9 MR. NILSSON: Objection to the extent it calls

10 for a legal conclusion, what the law is and

11 everything like that.

12 BY MR. SHEEHAN:

13 Q I'm not asking for legal conclusion.

14 A To answer the question, I probably would have let

15 them know sooner or later.

16 Q You never did let them know, though, did you?

17 A No.

18 Q When you say you would probably would have let

19 them know sooner or later, were you contemplating a

20 certain time frame when you would let them know?

21 A I don't know what my thoughts were right then.

22 Q Okay. What was the -- what is the name of the

23 nursing home where Terry is presently residing?

24 A Sable Palms Health Care Center.

25 Q And how long has she been there?






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53


1 A Two years, three months.

2 Q Are you satisfied with the treatment she's been

3 given there?

4 A Not all the time.

5 Q Have you had any particular problems at the

6 nursing home?

7 A I've had quite a few particular problems.

8 Q Can you tell us what those problems are?

9 MR. NILSSON: Let me raise this objection, Jim,

10 you know, looking at the pleadings in your petition,

11 and I've been trying to certainly give you leeway to

12 cover the things that you've alleged, you've not

13 alleged; directly or indirectly, that I can see any

14 problem may exist on the nursing home.

15 I know on the notice you invited a person from

16 the nursing home personnel to be here to sit at this

17 deposition. This is my position. It's not alleged

18 in the petition, and I don't want to go into it,

19 because I think it's outside the scope of what the

20 pleadings allege.

21 It's not directed, that I can see, to obtain

22 relevant information. It's not reasonably calculated

23 to lead to admissible evidence.

24 If you want to make an allegation that somehow

25 this is relevant to what you're seeking, or if the






___
54


1 nursing home wants to do something, then it's seems,

2 to me, we can get into all those things.

3 As the pleadings stand, I really don't see it.

4 Right now I'm about to instruct the witness not to

5 answer. But I'm certainly willing to listen to what

6 you have to say.

7 MR. SHEEHAN: Let me just say a few things.

8 MR. NILSSON: Okay.

9 MR. SHEEHAN: This is discovery. I'm entitled to

10 ask any questions which may reasonably be calculated

11 to lead to discoverable evidence. Certainly the

12 relationship between the guardian and the nursing

13 home and what occurs at the nursing home is

14 discoverable in determining the fitness of the

15 guardian, whether there is an allegation about it or

16 not because this is discovery.

17 And the question overall here concerns the

18 ability of the guardian to remain as guardian. Also,

19 you can place an objection as to relevancy and

20 materiality, but you cannot instruct the witness not

21 to answer unless there is a ground privilege. Your

22 objection is noted. I'm entitled to inquire.

23 MR. NILSSON: The Second D.C. case is right on

24 point. It says if it's outside what's reasonable may

25 be evidence in this case, and this is over and above





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