1 CIRCUIT COURT OF THE SIXTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT
STATE OF FLORIDA IN AND FOR PINELLAS COUNTY
2 PROBATE DIVISION
CASE NO. 90-2908-GD3
3 ______________________________________

4 IN RE: THE GUARDIANSHIP OF
THERESA MARIE SCHIAVO,
5
Incapacitated.
6 ______________________________________

7 MICHAEL SCHIAVO, AS GUARDIAN OF THE
PERSON OF THERESA MARIE SCHIAVO,
8
Petitioner,
9 APPEAL
vs.
10
ROBERT SCHINDLER AND MARY SCHINDLER,
11
Respondents.
12 ______________________________________

13 BEFORE: GEORGE W. GREER
Circuit Court Judge
14
PLACE: Clearwater Courthouse
15 Clearwater, FL 33756

16 DATE: January 24, 2000

17 TIME: 9:00 a.m.

18 REPORTED BY: Beth Ann Erickson, RPR
Court Reporter
19 Notary Public
____________________________________
20

21 TRIAL
____________________________________
22
ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES
23 501 South Fort Harrison
Clearwater, Florida 33756
24 (813) 464-4858
Volume I Pages 1 - 175
25






2
1 APPEARANCES:

2 GEORGE J. FELOS, ESQUIRE
CONSTANCE FELOS, ESQUIRE
3 640 Douglas Avenue
Dunedin, FL 34698
4

5 Attorneys for Petitioner

6
PAMELA CAMPBELL, ESQUIRE
7 The Alexander Building
535 Central Avenue
8 Suite 403
St. Petersburg, FL 33701
9

10 Attorney for Respondents

11

12 INDEX
Page
13 WITNESS
MICHAEL SCHIAVO
14 Direct Examination by Mr. Felos 20
Cross-Examination by Ms. Campbell 74
15 Redirect Examination by Mr. Felos 89

16 SCOTT SCHIAVO
Direct Examination by Mr. Felos 90
17 Cross-Examination by Ms. Campbell 108
Redirect Examination by Mr. Felos 117
18
JAMES BARNHILL, MD
19 Direct Examination by Ms. Felos 121
Cross-Examination by Ms. Campbell 159
20 Redirect Examination by Ms. Felos 171

21
EXHIBITS - PETITIONER'S
22 Page
Exhibit No. 1 25
23 Exhibit No. 2 25
Exhibit No. 3 56
24 Exhibit No. 4 71
Exhibit No. 5 134
25






3
1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S

2 THE BAILIFF: All rise. Circuit Court

3 in and for Pinellas County is now in session with

4 the Honorable George W. Greer, circuit court

5 judge, presiding. Be seated.

6 THE COURT: Good morning. Is the

7 petitioner ready to proceed?

8 MR. FELOS: Yes, we are, Your Honor.

9 MS. CAMPBELL: Yes, Your Honor.

10 THE COURT: Introduce those at counsel

11 table.

12 MR. FELOS: George Felos, Felos and

13 Felos PA.

14 MS. FELOS: Constance Felos, from the

15 firm of Felos and Felos, PA. This is the

16 petitioner, Michael Schiavo.

17 MS. CAMPBELL: Pam Campbell here

18 representing Mr. and Mrs. Schindler, the parents

19 of Theresa Schiavo and respondent, Bob Schindler,

20 father. My legal assistant, Theresa, and Mrs.

21 Schindler, the mother.

22 THE COURT: Opening statements?

23 MR. FELOS: We do have an opening

24 statement. Before we proceed, I notice there are

25 a number of witnesses here. Does the Court want






4
1 to swear in witnesses now and invoke the rule of

2 witnesses?

3 THE COURT: I'll swear the witnesses in

4 as they take the stand. The Court does not invoke

5 the rule. Do you wish to invoke the rule?

6 MR. FELOS: We wish to invoke the rule.

7 THE COURT: Aside from the parties, is

8 there anyone present that is a witness or intends

9 to be a witness in this case?

10 MS. CAMPBELL: Yes, Your Honor.

11 THE COURT: Sir, the rule has been

12 invoked, which is a rule of sequestration. What

13 that means is that the only time you can be

14 present in court is when you are testifying. From

15 this point forward, you are not to discuss your

16 testimony with anybody or the facts of this case

17 with anyone other than the lawyers, Ms. Campbell

18 or Mr. Felos -- you can talk to them -- but other

19 than that, you are not to discuss the case with

20 anyone.

21 So the bailiff will show you where you

22 can stay, if you are called to testify. Counsel,

23 be so kind as to advise your other witnesses that

24 the rule has been invoked. Very well. Mr. Felos?

25 MR. FELOS: Thank you, Your Honor.






5
1 Your Honor, in this case there are no winners.

2 Whatever the outcome of this case, everyone has

3 lost. A little less than ten years ago, February

4 1990, a beautiful vivacious young woman's heart

5 stopped beating. Her brain was deprived of oxygen

6 and since that time she's existed in a permanent

7 vegetative state, whereas her parents have agreed

8 in the pleadings, it's an irreversible, profoundly

9 debilitating condition.

10 On that day close to ten years ago, my

11 client, Mr. Schiavo, lost the wife he knew. Her

12 parents lost their dreams and hopes of a full life

13 with their daughter and her siblings, and friends

14 lost a shining presence in their lives. So in

15 this case, there is no final judgment order,

16 decree, that can ever bring Theresa Schiavo back.

17 If this Court grants the petition and

18 permits Theresa Schiavo's artificial life support

19 to be removed, all the parties will have to suffer

20 the agony of watching a beloved one die, even

21 though it is my client's belief and wish that is

22 what his wife wanted. If this Court does not

23 grant the petition, Theresa Schiavo's body will be

24 maintained in this condition, perhaps for decades,

25 and there is no victory or win in that for anyone.






6
1 The evidence will show in this case that

2 Theresa had a conventional childhood. She was

3 brought up by her parents. They were practicing

4 Catholics at the time. She meets Michael in

5 community college in the Philadelphia area. They

6 fall in love. They married. They lived there

7 from, as a married couple, from 1984 to 1986.

8 They met in 1982. They had a family oriented life

9 in Philadelphia, both with Michael and Theresa's

10 family.

11 They moved to Florida in 1986. She

12 worked for Prudential Insurance and he worked in

13 food service management as a restaurant manager,

14 assistant restaurant manager, working nights. You

15 will also hear evidence that Theresa once had a

16 weight problem. Was heavy in her early adulthood

17 and lost a significant amount of weight. You will

18 hear evidence that Theresa wanted to become

19 pregnant. Wanted to have a family. Was under a

20 doctor's care to become pregnant, and while under

21 that doctor's care, developed a potassium

22 imbalance which caused her heart to stop beating,

23 which caused the incident in question.

24 You will hear much evidence as to how

25 Mr. Schiavo cared for his wife. Fought for his






7

1 wife. Fought to get experimental treatment for

2 his wife. Raised funds for his wife to go out to

3 California and have electrical implants to try to

4 stimulate her brain. Engaged in fund raisers.

5 How he stayed with her for day and night for

6 periods of years. How he has been termed, as he

7 has been termed, as a nursing home administrator's

8 worst nightmare. How he has gotten for Theresa a

9 level of care that most other patients would not

10 have received.

11 You will hear evidence how he hired a

12 private aide over a 2-year period to take Theresa

13 out to museums, hairdressers, beauty makeovers, to

14 try to stimulate her in some hope that she may

15 improve or may revive. You will also hear

16 evidence from physicians, Your Honor, that there

17 is no hope of recovery for Theresa. That she is

18 in a permanent vegetative condition.

19 You will also hear doctor's evidence

20 that the process of removal of a feeding tube and

21 the death process involved there takes seven to

22 ten days. That a patient does not starve to

23 death. A patient quickly develops an electrolyte

24 imbalance which causes death within a short time,

25 and that death as a result of this process is not






8
1 painful.

2 You will hear disputed evidence as to

3 the cognition of Theresa Schiavo. I am sure you

4 will hear evidence by the respondent that they

5 believe Theresa is aware of their presence.

6 However, it is important for the Court to remember

7 that that is really a non issue in this case. The

8 major issue in this case is what Terri's intent

9 was.

10 And we will present testimony from Mr.

11 Schiavo and his brother and sister-in-law as to

12 conversations Theresa Schiavo had with them in

13 which she stated that if she had to be dependent

14 on the care of others, she would not want to live

15 that way. She would rather die. Also, if she was

16 in that condition, she would not want to be kept

17 alive or maintained artificially. Her wishes were

18 not contingent upon being totally unconscious or

19 vegetative, but broadly expressed in that way. So

20 although there may be dispute in this case as to

21 whether Theresa has some awareness of her

22 surroundings, minimal awareness, it really is a

23 non issue in terms of her expression of intent.

24 There may be some evidence that while

25 Theresa was living with her parents, she may have






9
1 made comments about the Karen Ann Quinlan case.

2 We believe that the Court will not find that

3 evidence particularly credible, and certainly if

4 it is, contrary to her later statements, would

5 have been a change of position for Theresa.

6 You will also receive testimony, Your

7 Honor, from some experts. One will be an expert

8 witness testifying as to the doctrine and policies

9 of the Catholic church regarding artificial life

10 support. That testimony will show that the

11 request of the petitioner in this case is highly

12 consistent with the teachings of the Catholic

13 faith.

14 You will also hear evidence from an

15 expert in America's attitudes and expressions

16 concerning end of life care, who will also testify

17 that the manner of expression, the manner in which

18 Theresa expressed her wishes, is very consistent

19 with how Americans do that. That usually these

20 statements are made as a catalyst to a particular

21 event and illness of a relative; watching a movie

22 or television program where someone is impaired.

23 That is how these expressions are usually and

24 customarily made.

25 You will also hear in this trial






10
1 testimony regarding the relationship between the

2 parties, the petitioner and respondents, which was

3 a good relationship and a supportive relationship

4 until the malpractice award was given in this

5 case. You will hear evidence that in 1992 a

6 verdict was issued in a medical malpractice case

7 brought on Theresa's behalf and Theresa, the

8 guardianship estate, netted over $700,000 and that

9 Mr. Schiavo netted approximately $300,000 in a

10 loss of consortium award.

11 You will hear evidence -- you will hear

12 testimony from the respondents that there was an

13 alleged agreement between Mr. Schiavo and the

14 respondents that he would split his loss of

15 consortium award with them. You will hear

16 testimony from Mr. Schiavo that that was not the

17 case. You will hear testimony that the

18 respondents were in significant financial

19 difficulties at that time and were upset that they

20 didn't receive a portion of Mr. Schiavo's award.

21 You will hear testimony of basically an

22 unfortunate falling apart of that relationship and

23 also testimony that shortly after that falling

24 apart, the respondents filed a suit in this court

25 to remove Mr. Schiavo as Theresa's guardian






11
1 alleging that he was in a relationship with

2 another woman, that he was not caring for her

3 medically, and that he had a financial conflict of

4 interest. You will hear testimony that that suit

5 was dismissed with prejudice by the respondents.

6 There will be testimony that three years

7 after Theresa's incident, yes, Mr. Schiavo did

8 have a relationship and is in a relationship

9 currently. You will hear testimony that, yes, Mr.

10 Schiavo wants to have a family in the future. He

11 wants to be a father in the future. And you will

12 also hear that that doesn't mean that he doesn't

13 love Terri and will always love Terri and wants

14 what's best for her.

15 You will hear testimony that it's always

16 been the respondents' wish for Mr. Schiavo to move

17 on with his life, and Mr. and Mrs. Schindler take

18 over the guardianship and take over the care of

19 Terri. You will hear testimony regarding the

20 Schindlers' beliefs concerning medical treatment

21 and their wishes concerning Terri. Terri's

22 medical treatment. Some of that evidence, which

23 may be disturbing.

24 You will hear testimony that the

25 Schindlers, if in Terri's condition, would want






12
1 all possible medical treatment to keep them alive

2 at all costs, even if they were permanently

3 unconscious. You will hear testimony that they

4 would choose chemotherapy. They would choose, if

5 they developed gangrene, they would choose to have

6 their limbs amputated to remain in a permanent

7 vegetative condition.

8 You will also hear testimony from

9 Theresa's father that if Terri needed open heart

10 surgery, he would choose to have open heart

11 surgery performed on her rather than have her die.

12 You will hear testimony from her father that if

13 Theresa developed gangrene and limbs needed to be

14 amputated, he would choose to have that for his

15 daughter. You will also hear testimony,

16 Your Honor, that those beliefs and intents have

17 nothing to do with being Catholic or part of the

18 Catholic faith.

19 You will hear -- I am sure you will hear

20 testimony in this case about the guardianship

21 estate, and yes, if Theresa Schiavo dies at this

22 time and the petition is granted, Mr. Schiavo will

23 inherit those funds of Theresa's Schiavo's

24 intestate. You will hear testimony that Mr. and

25 Mrs. Schindler also, if the petition is denied and






13
1 Mr. Schiavo does remarry, will be Theresa's

2 intestate heirs and will inherit.

3 At the end of the evidence, the Court I

4 believe will conclude that Mr. Schiavo is not

5 concerned with finances, with money, financial

6 gain, but always has been concerned with the best

7 interests of his wife. You will also hear

8 evidence regarding the time period that has

9 elapsed since Terri's incident and the request to

10 remove the feeding tube. It has been ten years,

11 and the argument has been made and was made by the

12 guardian ad litem's report that is in the file

13 that that somehow affects Mr. Schiavo's

14 credibility.

15 The Court will hear evidence for the

16 first four years or so that Mr. Schiavo

17 aggressively, aggressively treated or tried to

18 seek treatment for Terri in the hope of recovery.

19 Despite doctor's advice there was no hope, he did

20 not give up hope. And I believe the evidence will

21 show he can't be faulted for trying as hard as he

22 did to help his wife in the hope of recovery.

23 In 1994, at the suggestion of his

24 doctors, the Court will hear that Mr. Schiavo made

25 a decision not to treat an infection, which would






14
1 have resulted in Terri's death. In response to

2 that, Your Honor, the evidence will show that Mr.

3 and Mrs. Schindler amended their petition to

4 remove Mr. Schiavo as guardian, alleging he was

5 not treating the infection and alleging that

6 constituted an abuse of Terri.

7 The evidence will show that at that

8 time, my client was emotionally unable to proceed.

9 After making a decision not to treat an infection,

10 he was attacked for it and not emotionally able to

11 proceed with the removal of the feeding tube.

12 That about a year later, he started to take steps

13 to do that which has resulted in this petition.

14 The Court will, as part of the evidence

15 in this case, review the report of the guardian ad

16 litem and also the suggestion of bias filed in

17 response. The Court will also hear testimony that

18 the guardian ad litem at the time he issued his

19 report had one piece of evidence regarding Terri's

20 intent and that was the statements relayed to him

21 by Mr. Schiavo. You will hear the guardian ad

22 litem testify that had he known of the statements

23 of Mr. Schiavo's brother and sister in law, that

24 his conclusions may very well have been

25 different.






15
1 You will also hear testimony regarding

2 the guardian ad litem of his personal findings

3 regarding removal of feeding tubes. The guardian

4 ad litem has been very candid, and the evidence

5 will show, personally, he has great difficulty

6 with placing removal of artificial provision of

7 sustenance as medical treatment, which is the law

8 in Florida.

9 You will hear testimony of the guardian

10 ad litem to the effect that he believes patients

11 should not have the right, although the Supreme

12 Court of Florida has given the patient the right

13 to cease food and water, in his belief that should

14 not be the case and the patient should not have

15 that right. We will argue to the Court that may

16 have affected the close call, and I use the words

17 of the guardian ad litem, the close call he made

18 in his report.

19 We believe at the conclusion of the case

20 the Court will find clear and convincing evidence

21 that Theresa Schiavo would not want to be kept

22 alive in this condition and would want the feeding

23 tube removed. Also, if it's necessary for the

24 Court's determination, we believe the Court will

25 find the removal of the feeding tube is in Theresa






16
1 Schiavo's best interest. I say, if necessary,

2 Your Honor.

3 Obviously, the primary question before

4 the Court is Theresa's intent. If the Court does

5 not find clear and convincing intent, which we

6 believe the Court will do, but if that should

7 occur, we intend to argue to the Court that the

8 Court does have the authority, absent clear and

9 convincing evidence of intent under a best

10 interest test, to grant the petition.

11 Your Honor, in closing here, while the

12 petitioner agrees that life is sacred and should

13 be preserved, he also believes, and we will

14 suggest to the Court, that neither the law, nor

15 Theresa's religion, or moral dictates would

16 require that life be artificially preserved at all

17 costs. Thank you.

18 THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Felos.

19 Ms. Campbell.

20 MS. CAMPBELL: Mr. Felos has already

21 very eloquently and accurately set forth a lot of

22 the history in this case going over the dates and

23 times of the testimony dictated here in the next

24 week. Our differences where we come is as to what

25 the Court will find and also the credibility of






17
1 the witnesses.

2 Mr. Felos has his witnesses that will

3 tell what Ms. Terri Schiavo's wishes would be

4 regarding the feeding tube. You will also hear

5 from our side of it. On our side, you will hear

6 from a long childhood friend of Terri's. You will

7 also hear from a co-worker that was more closely

8 related to Terri close to the time of the incident

9 of the accident, which was February of 1990.

10 You will hear a lot of medical testimony

11 concerning the persistent vegetative state that

12 Theresa Schiavo currently exists in. We do not

13 doubt she's in a permanent vegetative state.

14 However, a lot goes to the cognitive activity and

15 brain activity of Theresa Schiavo. In reading

16 through some of the medical records, you will hear

17 testimony about her no recognition. However, you

18 will hear testimony from our side there is

19 recognition. She does recognize her mother.

20 There is a videotape we would like for

21 the Court to see, very brief, that is a videotape

22 capturing this relationship between Terri and her

23 mother that was recently taken. The guardian ad

24 litem, Richard Pearse, who was appointed in this

25 case, he will be testifying. The guardian ad






18
1 litem was appointed to investigate and make a

2 report to this Court, which he did, which the

3 court file contains a copy of his report.

4 Mr. Pearse thoroughly investigated the

5 whole case and interviewed various witnesses; met

6 with people at the nursing home staff; saw

7 different physicians; and came to the ultimate

8 conclusion that the feeding tube should be

9 maintained. It's our position here that the

10 guiding case for the court in setting precedence

11 is the Estele Browning case, which sets forth that

12 clear and convincing evidence should be

13 established of the patient's wishes, and that if

14 it's oral evidence, that the petitioner would bear

15 the burden of showing this was by clear and

16 convincing evidence.

17 We do not believe, as the guardian ad

18 litem also found, that the evidence you will hear

19 is credible. We have contradictory evidence that

20 will show in fact that it is not credible as to

21 what her wishes her. You will also hear from her

22 long time childhood friend that when the Karen Ann

23 Quinlan case was being discussed in conversations

24 between Terri Schiavo and this long childhood

25 friend regarding the Karen Ann Quinlan case, which






19
1 we believe ultimately sets forth Terri's beliefs,

2 it would be in the situation she is in one that

3 she would not ultimately choose to be in the

4 situation she is in, but the circumstances she

5 faces, that Theresa Schiavo would want to maintain

6 her feeding tube.

7 As a public policy statement, we also

8 believe the Court is firmly held to review the

9 conflict of interest of Michael Schiavo and the

10 financial situation that would rest in the

11 intestate estate. There is case law precedent to

12 that which we will be arguing in our closing

13 argument that we believe firmly sets forth this

14 conflict of interest. Thank you and good luck for

15 this week.

16 THE COURT: Call your first witness.

17 MR. FELOS: Thank you, Your Honor. Call

18 Mr. Schiavo.

19 THE COURT: Call your first witness.

20 MR. FELOS: Thank you, Your Honor. Call

21 Mr. Schiavo.

22 (THEREUPON, THE WITNESS WAS SWORN ON OATH BY

23 THE COURT.)

24

25






20
1 DIRECT EXAMINATION

2 BY MR. FELOS:

3 Q State your full name and current address

4 for the record, please.

5 A My name is Michael Schiavo. My address

6 is 2807 Marie Court, Clearwater, Florida.

7 Q What is your date of birth?

8 A 4-3-63.

9 Q Mr. Schiavo, how are you employed at

10 this time?

11 A I work for Morton Plant/Mease

12 Countryside Hospital as a respiratory therapist.

13 Q Please tell the Court what your

14 employment background is.

15 A I worked for Morton Plant/Mease ever

16 since I became a respiratory therapist five years

17 ago.

18 Q Before that?

19 A I worked for various amounts of

20 restaurants. Right before I got into medical, I

21 worked for Agostino's Restaurant.

22 Q Um-hmm.

23 A Prior to that, I worked for the

24 Columbia. And prior to that, I worked for the

25 Breckenridge Hotel.






21
1 Q Tell the Court, please, what your

2 educational background is.

3 A I went to community college for about a

4 year-and-a-half in the Philadelphia area. Bucks

5 County Community College, starting, I believe, in

6 1983. Don't hold me to the dates. I'm not good

7 with dates. I went to St. Pete Junior College. I

8 received a certificate for my EMT license.

9 Q What is that?

10 A Emergency Medical Technician. I went

11 back to school and received an AS degree in

12 respiratory therapy and back to back received my

13 SA in nursing. I just took my boards and passed

14 last week.

15 Q Where did you grow up, Mr. Schiavo?

16 A Levittown, Pennsylvania. Suburb of

17 Philadelphia.

18 Q Tell us about your family background.

19 Are your parents alive? Do you have brothers and

20 sisters?

21 A I have four older brothers. My mother

22 is deceased. It will be three years in July. My

23 father is still alive living here in Florida.

24 Q Did you have a relationship with any of

25 your grandparents?






22
1 A Yes. I did. All my grandparents.

2 Q Do you recall, were any of your

3 grandparents on life support?

4 A Yes. My father's mother.

5 Q How did that come about?

6 A She had a heart attack. Prior to that,

7 she had open heart ten years prior to that. She

8 had a heart attack. She ended up on a ventilator,

9 which was against her wishes. She had a living

10 will in place. A DNR in place.

11 The doctors did intubate her. My family

12 showed up. It was told to the doctor this was not

13 her wishes. Her living will and DNR was shown to

14 the doctor, I believe, and the ventilator was

15 removed.

16 Q Where were you and Terri living when

17 your grandmother died?

18 A Here in Florida. St. Pete Beach.

19 Q Did you attend the funeral?

20 A Yes. We did. We flew up.

21 Q Did Terri know or have a relationship

22 with your grandmother?

23 A She had a close relationship with my

24 grandmother.

25 Q Do you recall any conversations at the






23
1 funeral, the funeral luncheon after that,

2 regarding the issue of your grandmother's life

3 support?

4 A I vaguely remember a conversation that

5 happened, but my brother, Scott, had the

6 conversation. He would know better about the

7 conversation.

8 Q Is there anyone in your family that has

9 a particular reputation for having a good memory?

10 A My brother, Scott. We always tease him

11 about having the mind of an elephant.

12 Q Please tell me how you and Terri met?

13 A At Bucks County Community College in one

14 of our classes. I can't remember which class it

15 was.

16 Q Tell us a little about your courtship

17 with Terri.

18 A Terri and I dated approximately about a

19 year. We did the usual things. Family parties.

20 Movies. We went to dinner a lot. We were engaged

21 probably about a year into our relationship. We

22 were engaged for a year before we got married.

23 Q When did you and Terri marry?

24 A November 10, 1984.

25 Q Where did that occur?






24
1 A In Huntingdon Valley, PA.

2 Q Is that a suburb?

3 A Suburb of Philadelphia.

4 Q Describe for us Terri's personality.

5 A She was a very outspoken person. She

6 believed in what she believed in. But on the

7 other hand, she had a heart of gold. Somebody

8 that was sweet. Very personable. You would meet

9 her and just be charmed with her. Somebody -- to

10 me, she was everything.

11 Q Before you met -- when you met Terri,

12 what was her weight?

13 A Approximately 155 pounds.

14 Q Before you met Terri, had she been

15 heavier?

16 A Yes. She was in her early childhood.

17 Q Did she lose any weight during the

18 course of your marriage?

19 A Terri lost weight throughout the course

20 of our marriage. Yes. She did.

21 Q I would like to show you, Mr. Schiavo,

22 Petitioner's Exhibit Number One and Number Two

23 marked for identification and ask you if you can

24 identify what those are, please.

25 A This young lady right here is Terri.






25
1 That is her sister, Suzanne. This is when they

2 used to go away to -- I forget. They used to stay

3 at a hotel every year. This is Terri in Florida,

4 I believe. Actually on our honeymoon. This is

5 Terri and I. This is a good picture of her. This

6 is Terri right before we left for Florida. This

7 is Terri right here at her brother's graduation.

8 Q In Petitioner's Exhibit Number One, was

9 that the weight of Terri approximately at the time

10 you married her?

11 A The bottom picture? No.

12 Q The top picture?

13 A The top picture, yes.

14 Q In Petitioner's Exhibit Number Two, is

15 that Terri's approximate weight during your

16 marriage?

17 A Yes.

18 MR. FELOS: Your Honor, we move to

19 introduce these photos into evidence.

20 THE COURT: Is there an objection?

21 MS. CAMPBELL: No objection, Your Honor.

22 THE COURT: So received.

23 (THEREUPON, PETITIONER'S EXHIBITS NUMBERS 1 &

24 2 WERE RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

25 Q (By Mr. Felos) Now that the Court has






26
1 had the benefit to see the photographs, I'd like

2 to bring your attention to Petitioner's Exhibit

3 One. If you can explain to the Court what those

4 two pictures are?

5 A The bottom picture here was Terri at a

6 younger age. This is on a family vacation. To

7 the right of her, far right, is her sister,

8 Suzanne. The top picture is, I believe is -- that

9 was our honeymoon.

10 Q Okay. Now Petitioner's Exhibit Number

11 Two, can you explain when approximately these

12 pictures were taken, and where, starting with the

13 upper left?

14 A The upper left, that is Terri and I

15 outside of our apartment at Thunder Bay. I don't

16 know the approximate year of that. Date. To the

17 right of that is a party thrown for us about a

18 week before we left for Florida. That is my

19 mother with her back toward you. My brother and

20 sister-in-law.

21 Down on the bottom on the left with the

22 truck leasing, that is her brother's graduation.

23 That is Terri in the white. That is her sister in

24 the black. To the right of that, that is a

25 picture at Disney World. I believe that is -- I






27
1 don't know the approximate date on that one.

2 The bottom, that is Terri bending down

3 with the blond hair to the right of Santa Claus in

4 the back with the red suit. That is approximately

5 about six or so months prior to her accident.

6 Q Did you notice that Terri was losing

7 weight during the course of the marriage?

8 A Yes. I did.

9 Q To your knowledge, while living with

10 Terri, did you know whether or not she ever had an

11 eating disorder such as anorexia or bulimia?

12 A I did not. No. There was speculation

13 made to that, but there was nothing ever proven in

14 court as to that diagnosis.

15 Q Once you were married, tell us the type

16 of things that Terri and you liked to do together.

17 A After we are were married, I did work a

18 lot. I worked a lot of nights. On the days off

19 that I did have, we would go to the movies. Spent

20 a lot of time with her parents. We would go out

21 to dinner a lot. Spend time at home.

22 Q Were you in love with your wife?

23 A I was deeply in love with my wife and I

24 still am.

25 Q How long did you live in Philadelphia






28
1 after your marriage in 1984?

2 A I believe -- don't hold me to dates. I

3 believe about a year-and-a-half. I'm sure we left

4 for Florida in 1986.

5 Q Did you and Terri socialize with any of

6 your family members?

7 A All the time. We went to frequent

8 birthday parties. We had a lot of little kids.

9 We went to adult parties. Kids' parties.

10 Holidays. We spent a lot of time with family.

11 Q Where did your parents and siblings live

12 at that time?

13 A I'm sorry?

14 Q Where did your parents and siblings live

15 at that time?

16 A My parents lived in Levittown,

17 Pennsylvania. My brother, one brother in Trevose,

18 Pennsylvania. One brother lived in Fairless

19 Hills. One brother lived in Philadelphia. One

20 brother was not married yet. Kind of lived with

21 my parents and had his own place for a while.

22 Q Was that all in the greater Philadelphia

23 area?

24 A Yes.

25 Q Was Terri particularly close to any of






29
1 your brothers or sister-in-laws?

2 A Terri was very close with my brothers.

3 Especially my sister-in-laws and especially my

4 sister-in-law, Joan. They were best friends.

5 Q At that time, how would you describe

6 your relationship with Terri's parents and family

7 while you were living in Philadelphia?

8 A I believe we had a close relationship.

9 She was very close with her brother, Bobby. She

10 was not so close with her sister, Suzanne.

11 Q Did Terri have any close friends in

12 particular in the Philadelphia area?

13 A She had a very close friend, Sue Cobb.

14 She had other acquaintances. Other friends.

15 Q Why is it that you and Terri decided to

16 move to Florida?

17 A We were over the cold. We wanted

18 something new.

19 Q After you and Terri were married, but

20 before you moved to Florida, did you ever take any

21 trips here?

22 A Yes. We did. I remember one

23 especially.

24 Q What was particularly special about that

25 trip?






30
1 A That is before we left her grandmother

2 was gravely ill.

3 Q Um-hmm. Did Terri have any concerns

4 about taking the trip to Florida given her

5 grandmother's condition?

6 A She was very concerned. She did not

7 want to leave her grandmother. She was pretty ill

8 at the time. She was in the hospital in intensive

9 care.

10 Q Do you know why she decided to take the

11 trip?

12 A Her mother told us to go.

13 Q Did the subject of Terri's grandmother

14 -- by the way, did you fly, drive, or take the

15 train?

16 A We took a train.

17 Q Did the subject of Terri's grandmother

18 come up at all during that train trip?

19 A Yes. It did. We were taking the train

20 trip. We are sitting there. Terri was reading a

21 book. She put the book down and looked at me.

22 She says, "I'm kind of concerned about leaving."

23 I told her, "Your mom said to go." She says,

24 "Well, I'm concerned about my grandmother. What

25 if she dies? Who is going to take care of my






31
1 uncle?" She says, "If I ever have to be a burden

2 to anybody, I don't want to live like that."

3 Q You made reference -- did you say

4 anything in response to that?

5 A I told her that -- I told her that she

6 should remember that for me, too.

7 Q Do you know why Terri made a reference

8 to her uncle in connection with her grandmother's

9 illness?

10 A Years prior, her uncle was in a severe

11 car accident. He was depressed because his wife

12 and child were killed in a car accident. They

13 were hit by a train coming here from the mall. He

14 became, as what Terri says, severely depressed.

15 Had a few drinks one night. Went out. On the

16 drive home, he hit a tree. He ended up in a comma

17 for a few weeks.

18 When he came out of his comma, he was

19 pretty much severely handicapped. Had a lot of

20 impediments. Had to live with his mother.

21 Q Did -- regarding Terri's uncle, did you

22 ever meet him?

23 A Yes. I did.

24 Q You observed his condition?

25 A Yes.






32
1 Q Did you observe any infirmities in the

2 uncle?

3 A Her uncle had paralyzed -- I believe his

4 right arm was paralyzed, I believe. He had a

5 severe limp. He used a cane. He had slurred

6 speech. Difficulty. He had to sit for long

7 periods. He could not get up and move around a

8 lot. Difficulty in thought processes, I believe.

9 That he could not process his thoughts quick

10 enough with his answers.

11 Q Again, why was Terri concerned about her

12 uncle because of her grandmother?

13 A Because he lived with the grandmother

14 and she basically helped take care of him.

15 Q After -- by the way, after the

16 conversation on the train, what happened to

17 Terri's grandmother?

18 A She died while we were here in Florida.

19 Q Michael, did you have any other

20 conversations at all with Terri about removal of

21 life support?

22 A Yes. I did.

23 Q Tell us about those, please.

24 A Terri and I would be home. We would be

25 watching TV. You know, a documentary would come






33
1 on. It would depict you know adults, children

2 that are being sustained and kept alive by parents

3 at home. People that had to be on ventilators.

4 People getting tube feedings. Medications

5 throughout. IVs.

6 She made the comment to me that she

7 would never want to be like that. Don't ever keep

8 her alive on anything artificial. She did not

9 want to live like that. I looked at her and I

10 said do the same for me.

11 Q Do you recall how many conversations

12 like that you had with Terri in response to a TV

13 program or documentary?

14 A It was two, two or three times.

15 Q When you moved to Florida, when you

16 first moved to Florida, where did you live?

17 A We lived in the Schindler's condominium.

18 Q How long did you live there?

19 A Approximately a year.

20 Q Did you pay rent?

21 A We paid rent when we could. The

22 Schindlers were gracious enough to let us slide

23 when we had to. Terri was not working at the

24 time.

25 Q Okay. Then after living in Mr. and Mrs.






34
1 Schindler's condo, where did you live?

2 A We moved to Thunder Bay apartments on

3 4th Street.

4 Q St. Petersburg?

5 A St. Petersburg.

6 Q Tell us a little bit about the logistics

7 of your life down here in terms of schedule. You

8 said Terri did not work initially. Did she

9 eventually find employment?

10 A Terri did not work initially. I started

11 work at Olga's Kitchen as a manager. Terri did

12 not work for a while. About four months. She

13 previously worked at Prudential up north, and she

14 went to Prudential here and they hired her on as a

15 transfer. That is where she stayed.

16 Q Was that Prudential Securities?

17 Prudential Insurance?

18 A Prudential Insurance.

19 Q Did Terri work days or nights?

20 A Days.

21 Q What were your hours?

22 A My hours usually were 4:00 to close.

23 3:00 to close.

24 Q Closing is?

25 A Sometimes midnight. Sometimes 11:00.






35
1 Sometimes I was home at 1:00 in the morning.

2 Q How did Terri feel about you working all

3 those nights?

4 A She was not particularly thrilled with

5 it, but she knew I had to do that.

6 Q Did the two of you -- did Terri have any

7 particularly close friends at Prudential?

8 A She had acquaintances. She had

9 friends. I would not say they were close.

10 Q Did the two of you have any close mutual

11 friends here in Florida?

12 A We did not have mutual friends. We had

13 acquaintances we both knew. We did not have any

14 close mutual friends.

15 Q Did Terri's parents move to Florida at

16 some time?

17 A I believe it was a year later after

18 Terri and I moved here.

19 Q After the Schindlers moved to Florida,

20 but before Terri's medical accident, how would you

21 describe the relationship you and Terri had with

22 Mr. and Mrs. Schindler?

23 A I'm sorry. Repeat that question.

24 Q Once the Schindlers moved to Florida,

25 how would you describe the relationship you and






36
1 Terri had with her parents down here? Did you see

2 each other often?

3 A Terri saw the Schindlers probably more

4 than I did. In my own opinion, I thought we were

5 pretty close.

6 Q Tell me a little bit about -- tell us a

7 little about Terri's religious practice from the

8 time you knew her. Well, do you know what faith

9 Terri was brought up?

10 A Terri was brought up Catholic.

11 Q During the time that you knew Terri or

12 let's say from the time you were married, how

13 often would Terri go to mass?

14 A I'm sorry. Repeat that for me, George.

15 Q How often would Terri go to mass?

16 A Not very often. Once every few months.

17 Q Did you go with her?

18 A Yes. I did.

19 Q Every time?

20 A Yes. I did.

21 Q Did Terri ever receive communion when

22 she attended mass?

23 A No. She did not.

24 Q Did Terri ever participate in the

25 sacrament of confession?






37
1 A No. She did not.

2 Q Did you and Terri ever consider having a

3 family?

4 A Yes. We did.

5 Q What was -- what were your feelings

6 about that and Terri's feelings?

7 A Terri adored children. She wanted

8 children desparately, as I did.

9 Q Was there a time when the two of you

10 actually decided to start a family?

11 A Yes. It was --we decided to wait about

12 five years before we really wanted to start a

13 family. It was probably the beginning of 1989 we

14 started, I believe.

15 Q Did Terri ever become pregnant?

16 A No. She did not.

17 Q What was the difficulty?

18 A Terri was not receiving her period.

19 Q Did you or Terri ever seek medical

20 advice or treatment regarding your desire to have

21 children?

22 A Terri did. Yes. She was seeing a

23 family physician and a gynecologist.

24 Q Who was that?

25 A The gynecologist was Dr. Egel.






38
1 Q Did Dr. Egel --

2 A Egel. E-g-e-l.

3 Q What time period was Terri consulting

4 with Dr. Egel in an effort to become pregnant?

5 A I believe starting in the beginning of

6 1989.

7 Q How long did her -- how long did she go

8 to Dr. Egel?

9 A For a period of about a year.

10 Q Michael, tell me what occurred on

11 February 25, 1990.

12 A I got home late from work that night. I

13 came in the house. Terri woke up. She heard me.

14 I gave her a kiss good night. She gave me a kiss

15 good night. A few hours later, I was getting out

16 of bed for some reason and I heard this thud. So

17 I ran out into the hall and I found Terri on the

18 floor. I knelt down next to her and I turned her

19 over because she sort of fell on her face. On her

20 stomach and face.

21 I turned her over going, "Terri, Terri.

22 You okay?" She kind of had this gurgling noise.

23 I laid her down and ran over and called 911. I

24 was hysterical. I called 911. I called her

25 brother, who lived in the same complex as we did.






39
1 I ran back to Terri. She was not moving. I held

2 her in my arms until her brother got there. I

3 rocked her. I didn't know what to do. I was

4 hysterical. It was a horrible moment.

5 Q Do you know how long it was before the

6 paramedics came?

7 A Had to be a good six minutes or so.

8 Q What happened when the paramedics came?

9 A I moved away. Her brother was sitting

10 in the kitchen around the corner. I moved away

11 and they started working on Terri. They put the

12 leads on. I heard them say she is flat line.

13 Start CPR. I am standing there going what is

14 happening here? Why is this happening? Why isn't

15 her heart beating? I was just a mess. I was

16 hysterical.

17 Q Where did the paramedics take her?

18 A To Humana Northside, St. Pete.

19 Q Did you ride with the paramedics?

20 A Yes. I did.

21 Q What is Terri's condition as a result of

22 the incident that occurred on February 25, 1990?

23 A She's in a chronic vegetative state

24 anoxic encephalopathy due to cardiac arrest.

25 Q For those of us who did not go to school






40
1 in medicine --

2 A Lack of oxygen because her heart was not

3 pumping to her brain.

4 Q Can Terri run?

5 A No.

6 Q Can Terri walk?

7 A No.

8 Q Can Terri stand on her own?

9 A No. She can't.

10 Q Sit on her own?

11 A No. She can't.

12 Q Can Terri turn over?

13 A No. She can't.

14 Q Does she talk?

15 A No.

16 Q Can she eat?

17 A No.

18 Q Can she drink?

19 A No. She can't.

20 Q Can she swallow?

21 A No.

22 Q Can she go the bathroom?

23 A No.

24 Q Can she brush her teeth?

25 A No.






41
1 Q Can Terri clip her fingernails?

2 A No.

3 Q Comb her hair?

4 A No.

5 Q Can Terri dress herself?

6 A No. She cannot.

7 Q How are all those activities done for

8 Terri?

9 A I have her in a nursing home. The

10 facility employees do all that for her. She has

11 to be intubated by one person. She wears a diaper

12 which has to be cleaned, and you know, whether she

13 has a BM, they have to change the diaper. Clean

14 her. She has her period, which is at times

15 extremely heavy and messy. They have to clean

16 her. They have to do her hair. Her teeth. They

17 have to do total care for Terri.

18 She can't turn. They have to come in

19 every two hours and turn her. They have to place

20 her in a chair. They have to put the side rails

21 up on the chair to hold her in place.

22 Q Is there a neck support on the chair?

23 A Concave headrest more of. Her head fits

24 into the support.

25 Q In addition to the total care Terri has






42
1 received, I would like you to tell the Court some

2 of the additional medical problems Terri has had.

3 A Terri has had numerous, numerous urinary

4 tract infections. She has had her left little toe

5 removed due to osteomyelitis.

6 Q What is that?

7 A Bone infection that was caused by a

8 pressure sore.

9 Q Has Terri ever had to be hospitalized

10 because of the urinary tract infections?

11 A Yes, she has. Numerous amounts of time

12 for that.

13 Q For the removal of her toe?

14 A Yes.

15 Q Go on.

16 A She has kidney stones. She had her

17 gallbladder removed.

18 Q Did that require hospitalization?

19 A Yes. It did.

20 Q She had vaginitis. She had pelvic

21 inflammatory disease. She had I believe two D and

22 Cs.

23 Q Did the pelvic inflammatory disease, or

24 D and Cs, require hospitalization?

25 A Twenty-four hour admits.






43
1 Q Um-hmm.

2 A She has had respiratory problems. She

3 had dehydration.

4 Q What respiratory problems?

5 A Upper congestion. She can't control her

6 gag. When she fills up, she has to be constantly

7 suctioned down her nose or in the back of her

8 throat. She was put on some aerosol medications

9 that helped dry and relieve the congestion. She

10 has to be watched at those points because she

11 can't control her gag and she will choke.

12 Q Has Terri been hospitalized due to

13 respiratory infections?

14 A Yes.

15 Q Go on, please.

16 A I lost my train of thought.

17 Q Did Terri ever suffer seizures?

18 A Yes. She's suffered seizures. She

19 makes constant muscle twitching. She has severe

20 contractures of the hands, the elbows, the knees,

21 the feet. Her foot drop is to the point where --

22 Q What is a foot drop?

23 A Foot drop is where your foot drops and

24 sticks into a certain spot. Her feet are

25 basically lower than her leg, when she sticks it






44
1 out. She's had a couple cysts removed off her

2 neck. Numerous amounts of things. I'm trying to

3 think. She has a food tube that has been infected

4 a few times that she had to be taken to the doctor

5 to remove.

6 Q Gastronomy tube?

7 A Yes. Infection. Inflammation around

8 that. Due to contractures in elbows, now the skin

9 in between is starting to break down. She's had,

10 she has constant diarrhea which leads to

11 dehydration which leads to --

12 Q Has she ever been hospitalized for

13 dehydration or diarrhea?

14 A She has in the past. This previous

15 dehydration she stayed in the nursing home.

16 Q Michael, you have spent more time with

17 Terri and have seen Terri more often than anyone

18 since her incident. Have you ever seen any

19 voluntary or volitional response on her part in

20 all these years?

21 A I have not.

22 Q Does Terri, does Terri emit any noises?

23 Does her face move? Her head?

24 A Terri will moan, but it's not to

25 anything. We could -- I could be sitting next to






45
1 her and she will start to moan. Her eyes will

2 blink. Her head will kind of twitch. It will

3 kind of move itself. She also has -- she goes

4 into this spasm where she will hyperflex her neck

5 and will make these noises.

6 She will move her, I shouldn't say --

7 her arms move to where it looks like it is

8 tightening up and she is almost sitting in like a

9 praying mantis position. I have never ever seen

10 Terri have any voluntary movement or follow

11 through with any commands.

12 Q Does Terri have tears at times?

13 A I have noticed she had a tear or two,

14 but to me it was after she would kind of take a

15 big deep breath. Almost looks like a yawn, and

16 her eyes would tear.

17 Q Have you ever seen Terri laugh or smile?

18 A I have not seen Terri laugh or smile?

19 She makes a moaning noise and her mouth opens up

20 kind of, but I would not call that a smile.

21 Q Do you know of any treatment method or

22 drug or thing that can be done which will improve

23 Terri's condition?

24 A No. I don't.

25 Q Has any doctor informed you there is any






46
1 treatment method, drug, or thing that can be done

2 to improve Terri's condition?

3 A No.

4 Q What steps, if any, did you take in

5 order to try to improve Terri's condition?

6 A When this first happened I, you know,

7 she was at Bayfront for rehab. And we found this

8 doctor in California that was doing experimental

9 surgeries on people that are in vegetative

10 states. He was placing a stimulator inside their

11 brain in hopes that that would stimulate the

12 dormant cells that were not actually dead yet. I

13 took her there.

14 The doctor was Hoshibushi (phonetic).

15 He was doing experimental surgery. The protocol

16 was one month. There was no improvement from

17 that. I brought Terri back. I hired a private

18 aide.

19 Q Let me backtrack. When was it that you

20 brought Terri to California? Do you recall?

21 A I believe '91. '92.

22 Q That was before the medical malpractice

23 award?

24 A Yes. It was.

25 Q How did you come by the funds in order






47
1 to send Terri to California?

2 A We were on the news. I sold hot dogs on

3 St. Pete Beach. Sold pretzels. The association

4 where we lived got involved with us. Had a

5 Valentine's dance for her. They helped. We

6 raised some money to get her out there.

7 Q Did you go to California with Terri?

8 A Yes. I did.

9 Q You mentioned that stimulators were put

10 into Terri. Where were they put into Terri?

11 A Into her brain. Right on top of the

12 gray matter, which is the top part of your brain.

13 Q How were they -- were these electric

14 stimulators?

15 A It looked like your hand and had wires

16 that came out at a certain point of your brain.

17 It was electrodes in the back. I don't want to

18 say electrodes. I don't know what it was called.

19 Placed here that the wires ran off of. Ran down

20 the side of her neck and would go into her chest.

21 It looked like a pacemaker. They turn off and on

22 at that point.

23 Q An external device?

24 A Right.

25 Q You mentioned when you came back you






48
1 hired a private aide?

2 A Yes. I did.

3 Q Tell me why you did that.

4 A To continue to stimulate Terri. I

5 wanted to make sure she was dressed in everday

6 clothes. I had Diane take her to museums. I had

7 Diane make sure when I was not there that she was

8 taken her for walks. I had Diane take her to

9 museums. To beauty makeovers. I made Terri's

10 hair done the way she did it. Makeup on.

11 Earrings. Necklaces.

12 Q Were any of these efforts successful,

13 Mike?

14 A No. They were not.

15 Q Have you ever received any opinion from

16 any doctor or physician to the effect that Terri

17 has any mental ability?

18 A No. I have not.

19 Q Any opinion from any doctor or physician

20 that she has any cognitive skill or cognitive

21 interaction with her environment?

22 A No. I have not.

23 Q I would like to outline with you Terri's

24 care after the accident. You mentioned that she

25 went to Humana Northside?






49
1 A Yes. She did.

2 Q How long was she in Humana Northside?

3 A Approximately two-and-a-half months.

4 Q Was she in the ICU?

5 A Yes. She was. I spent the first

6 sixteen days and nights there. Never left her.

7 Q Where did you sleep?

8 A Sometimes right next to her. Sometimes,

9 most of the times, out in the waiting room on the

10 chairs.

11 Q After those first sixteen days, did

12 you -- how often did you see Terri at Humana

13 Northside?

14 A I came every day.

15 Q Where did Terri go after Humana

16 Northside?

17 A She went to College Harbor.

18 Q What type of facility is that?

19 A Skilled nursing.

20 Q How long did you see Terri at College

21 Harbor?

22 A I saw Terri every day.

23 Q How much time did you spend?

24 A I went in the morning. Left in the

25 evening. Spent 8, 10, 12 hours a day.






50
1 Q After College Harbor, where did Terri

2 go?

3 A She went to Bayfront --

4 Q Um-hmm.

5 A -- Medical Center under the care of

6 Dr. Baras.

7 Q What was the purpose of Bayfront?

8 A She had 90 days of skilled rehab.

9 Q Was there any problem in getting the

10 insurance money for Bayfront?

11 A Yes. There was. I had to actually

12 fight the insurance company for that.

13 Q What type of rehabilitation was given to

14 Terri at Bayfront?

15 A Aggressive rehabilitation. They also

16 got to take the trach out. Remove the trach.

17 Q When you say rehabilitation, is that

18 physical therapy?

19 A Physical, occupational. Special

20 therapists worked with her.

21 Q Other than removing the trach, was

22 there any improvement in Terri's condition?

23 A No. There was not.

24 Q How often did you see Terri at Bayfront?

25 A I was there every day.






51
1 Q Where did Terri go after Bayfront?

2 A She went to my home.

3 Q How long was Terri at home?

4 A Approximately four months, I believe.

5 Q Who took care of her at your home?

6 A I did 98 percent of it. My

7 mother in law did help. My father-in-law

8 basically did not do much at all.

9 Q Were your in-laws living with you at

10 that time?

11 A Yes. They were.

12 Q Why is it you said she was home for

13 about four months? Why didn't she stay home

14 longer than that?

15 A Because Terri needs total care. It is a

16 lot of work. We could not afford nurses. I could

17 not do it by myself. My mother-in-law was afraid

18 to have her there. My father-in-law was concerned

19 about that.

20 Q Did your mother-in-law express why she

21 was afraid?

22 A In case something happened to Terri that

23 she didn't know how to do.

24 Q After Terri was at home, where did she

25 go?






52
1 A She went back to College Harbor.

2 Q How long was she there?

3 A She was there for a couple of weeks.

4 Q How often did you see her at College

5 Harbor?

6 A Every day.

7 Q And from College Harbor?

8 A She went to California.

9 Q Where were you in California for this

10 experimental treatment?

11 A We went to the University of California

12 at San Francisco Hospital.

13 Q How long were you there?

14 A At the hospital, itself, we were there

15 about a week. For the rehab portion, we were

16 there about a month. A little over a month and a

17 week.

18 Q How often did you see Terri in the

19 hospital in the rehab in California?

20 A At the hospital, I stayed in her room 24

21 hours a day. I slept in a cot next to her. At

22 the rehab center, I was there every day with her.

23 Morning, noon, and night.

24 Q When you came home from California,

25 where did Terri go?






53
1 A She came home with us, with me, for a

2 couple of weeks.

3 Q Who took care of her at home?

4 A I did, plus we were able to, since we

5 had the money from the fund raisers, we were able

6 to afford a couple of nurses to come in and help

7 us.

8 Q After Terri was at home a short time,

9 after that where did she go?

10 A Bradenton Medical Rehab.

11 Q What type of institution is Mediplex

12 (phonetic)?

13 A Mediplex deals mainly with brain

14 injury, strokes, anything that has to do with the

15 brain.

16 Q How long was Terri at Mediplex in

17 Bradenton?

18 A Approximately three months.

19 Q Why did Terri leave Mediplex?

20 A Because the doctors informed us there

21 was nothing more they can do for Terri and we had

22 to find a facility to put her in or take her home.

23 Q How often did you see Terri at Mediplex

24 in Bradenton?

25 A Every day.






54
1 Q Where did Terri go after Mediplex?

2 A Sabal Palms.

3 Q where is that located?

4 A In Largo, I believe.

5 Q At Sabal Palms, did you have any

6 conflicts or disputes with the nursing home

7 regarding Terri's case?

8 A Yes. I did. I had many conflicts and

9 disputes. They had a lot of agency nurses on the

10 floor and they did not have enough staff. Terri

11 was getting the wrong medications. Terri was

12 laying in her dirty diaper for hours and hours on

13 end. Many grievances. She was not getting her

14 shower. Her teeth were not getting done. her

15 medication to her mouth was not put on. When she

16 had the osteomyelitis, it was not cleaned properly

17 after the hospitalization.

18 They did not have enough CNAs on the

19 floor to care for the people and the amount of

20 care that was needed for certain people.

21 Q What did you do to make sure that those

22 deficiencies did not affect Terri's care?

23 A I went through the grievance policy that

24 they give to the family members when there is a

25 problem.






55
1 Q What were those?

2 A It was a form you filled out. The

3 grievance. You handed it in. The Director of

4 Nurses would read them and supposedly they would

5 fix them. And they would write you a little

6 letter back, and most of the time nothing was done

7 because they did not have enough staff to handle

8 the problems.

9 Q Were you a particularly popular person

10 with the nursing home administration?

11 A No. I was not.

12 Q At some point, did the nursing home take

13 some sort of legal action against you?

14 A Yes. They did.

15 Q Tell us about that, please.

16 A They basically tried to have me

17 restrained from the nursing home.

18 Q What was -- how did that play out,

19 Mr. Schiavo?

20 A It kind of coincided with the

21 Schindler's petition.

22 Q Was the nursing home successful?

23 A They were not.

24 Q Did the court appoint a guardian ad

25 litem to investigate the nursing home charges?






56
1 A Yes.

2 Q Did the guardian ad litem issue a

3 report?

4 A Yes. He did.

5 MR. FELOS: Your Honor, we, at the

6 status conference last week, agreed to take

7 judicial notice of the prior matters in the file,

8 but for convenience, I would like to introduce

9 into evidence Petitioner's Exhibit Number Three

10 which are certain pleadings and documents from

11 prior proceedings.

12 THE COURT: Is there an objection?

13 MS. CAMPBELL: No, Your Honor.

14 THE COURT: Thank you. They will be

15 received as Petitioner's Number Three.

16 (THEREUPON, PETITIONER'S EXHIBIT 3 WAS

17 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

18 Q (By Mr. Felos) Mr. Schiavo, I would

19 like you to read a paragraph from the report of

20 John Pacaric, (phonetic). Report of the guardian

21 ad litem. This is the paragraph that starts on

22 the bottom of Page 2 of the report and ends on top

23 of Page 3.

24 A The guardian of the person, Michael

25 Schiavo, is reported by everyone interviewed to be






57
1 attentive to the pleas of his wife. He is at the

2 nursing home on almost a daily basis. He is

3 constantly reviewing the ward's chart at the

4 nursing home and not hesitant to point out errors

5 and omissions in the care of his wife. There are

6 reported incidents of the guardian yelling and

7 screaming in the hallways, nurses in tears, and

8 intimidation of the staff by Mr. Schiavo.

9 Although I have concluded Mr. Schiavo is

10 a nursing home administrator's nightmare, I

11 believe that the ward gets care and attention from

12 the staff at Sabal Palms as a result of Mr.

13 Schiavo's advocacy and defending on her behalf. A

14 family member of another resident at Sabal Palms

15 reports that his relative receives less care as a

16 result of the staff spending so much time with

17 Mrs. Schiavo.

18 Q How often did you see Terri at Sabal

19 Palms?

20 A Every day at Sabal Palms.

21 Q How long was she there?

22 A Approximately two years, I want to say.

23 Q How long would you see her?

24 A Um, 8, 10 hours a day.

25 Q Did you have a dispute with Mr. and Mrs.






58
1 Schindler at Sabal Palms Nursing Home in February

2 of 1993?

3 A Yes. I did.

4 Q Describe, please, what happened at Sabal

5 Palms on February 14, 1993.

6 A February 14th I was in Theresa's room.

7 I had the door closed. I was studying for some

8 homework I had. The Schindlers came into the room

9 and they went over and said hello to Theresa. The

10 first words out of my father-in-law's mouth was

11 how much money he was going to get. I was, what

12 do you mean? Well, you owe me money.

13 I said to him to stop everything. I

14 said I did not receive any money. I gave it all

15 to Terri. He then, in turn, pointed at Terri and

16 said how much money is she going to give me. I

17 said to him you need to talk to the guardian of

18 the property. I'm not that person. With that, he

19 call me a few choice words, went out and slammed

20 the door.

21 With those words, I followed him and my

22 mother-in-law stepped in the way. She started

23 saying this is my daughter, our daughter, and we

24 deserve some of that money.

25 Q Mr. Schiavo, do you know what money






59
1 Mr. Schindler was talking about?

2 A He was talking about the award that I

3 received.

4 Q Approximately how much did you receive

5 net in your loss of consortium award?

6 A Approximately 300,000.

7 Q Was Mr. Schindler -- let me backtrack.

8 When did that case come to trial?

9 A The malpractice?

10 Q Yes.

11 A Um.

12 Q Does November '92 sound right to you?

13 A Yes.

14 Q How much in funds did Terri receive net?

15 A I think she netted 700,000.

16 Q Who was sued?

17 A The doctors were. Doctor Egel and

18 Power.

19 Q The gynecologist Terri was seeing to

20 become pregnant?

21 A Right. And the family doctor.

22 Q Was Mr. Schindler aware of the

23 malpractice proceeding?

24 A Yes.

25 Q He attended the trial?






60
1 A Yes.

2 Q Do you know whether or not he was there

3 the day the verdict was entered?

4 A Yes. He was there with pencil and

5 paper. He wrote the verdict amounts down to the

6 point that he was so upset that he thought the

7 judge did not calculate right. He could not go to

8 work the next day.

9 Q Did Mr. Schindler ever tell you why he

10 thought he was entitled to a portion of your loss

11 of consortium award?

12 A Because it was his daughter and he

13 deserved it.

14 Q Did you ever say to Mr. and Mrs.

15 Schindler that you would split with them your loss

16 of consortium award or pay them any portion of it?

17 A No. I did not.

18 Q I think you testified that you told

19 Mr. Schindler that you gave your money away?

20 A Yes. I did.

21 Q Was that a correct statement?

22 A No. It was not.

23 Q Why did you say this?

24 A Just basically to shut him up because he

25 was screaming.






61
1 Q At that time, in that dispute with

2 Mr. and Mrs. Schindler that day, was there any

3 discussion of lawsuits or lawyers?

4 A Yes. I got through. My mother-in-law

5 went outside. He was standing there. His fists

6 were clenched. He got in my face. Said he's

7 coming down on me. Going to get on this

8 guardianship and he was going to get a lawyer.

9 Q At any time have you told Mr. or Mrs.

10 Schindler that they could not come to the nursing

11 home or visit Terri?

12 A No. I did not.

13 Q did you ever tell the nursing home not

14 to give the Schindlers information on Terri's

15 medical condition?

16 A At one point, yes.

17 Q Why did you do that?

18 A When Terri was in the hospital for, I

19 believe a urinary tract -- no. I forget what she

20 was in the hospital for. It was for some

21 hospitalization. And the Schindlers never showed

22 up or even called about her care.

23 Q Did you change your position about

24 giving the Schindlers access to medical

25 information?






62
1 A Yes. I did.

2 Q Looking back on it, was that a moment

3 that you are proud of?

4 A No. I was not. It was done. It was

5 emotions running. I was angry.

6 Q Back then in 1993, that was still three

7 years after Terri's incident, how were you doing

8 emotionally? How were you taking it?

9 A I'm sorry. Repeat that, George.

10 Q Back in 1993, how well were you coping

11 emotionally with what happened to Terri? How were

12 you doing?

13 A I don't know how I was doing it. I was

14 an emotional wreck. I was seeing a

15 psychiatrist. A psychologist, I should say. I

16 had a lot of unanswered questions of why.

17 Q Did you ever tell your in-laws that

18 Terri would be better off dead than coming out of

19 her coma?

20 A No. I did not, sir.

21 Q Did you ever have a conversation or make

22 a statement about her coming out of the coma?

23 A I made a mention to Mr. Schindler one

24 day out in the hall. I said, this was after

25 probably four or five years of Terri being in this






63
1 condition, I said to him maybe it was in Terri's

2 best interests. It was not feasible to come out

3 and find out you are going to be a quadraplegic

4 and you can't walk anymore.

5 Q On what basis did you believe she would

6 be a quadraplegic?

7 A The doctors have told me that in the

8 past.

9 Q How has her (sic) relationship been with

10 Mr. and Mrs. Schindler since the February '93

11 incident?

12 A How has my relationship been?

13 Q Yes.

14 A I have not spoken to them since, except

15 through trials or --

16 Q Have they spoken to you?

17 A No. They have not. I did, on one

18 occasion when Terri had her gallbladder removed, I

19 did on one occasion when the mother called the

20 nursing home, I tried to talk to her and she

21 refused to talk to me.

22 Q Did Mr. Schindler ever follow up on his

23 threat to get a lawyer?

24 A Yes. He did.

25 Q I believe a petition was filed in July






64
1 of 1993. Later that year. What were you sued

2 for, Mr. Schiavo? What was the Schindlers asking

3 the Court to do?

4 A That I was not taking care of Terri. I

5 was seeing other people. And that I was in

6 conflict due to her money that if Terri died I

7 would inherit it.

8 Q Mr. Schiavo, since Terri's incident, did

9 you have any intimate relations with another

10 woman?

11 A Yes. I did.

12 Q When did that occur?

13 A Approximately five years after the

14 incident. I don't know the exact dates.

15 Q How long did that relationship last?

16 A Approximately eight months.

17 Q Did Mr. and Mrs. Schindler know about

18 it?

19 A Yes. They did. Mr. Schindler wanted me

20 to do it. He condoned it, along with Mrs.

21 Schindler. They met the person I was seeing.

22 Q Do you currently have an intimate

23 relationship with a woman?

24 A Yes. I do.

25 Q How long have you known her?






65
1 A Five-and-a-half years.

2 Q Would you like to have a family

3 sometime?

4 A Very much so.

5 Q Because you're involved, because you

6 have a relationship with someone else, does that

7 mean you don't love Terri?

8 A I love Terri very deeply. I always

9 will.

10 Q Michael, does your petition have

11 anything to do with Terri's money at all?

12 A No. It does not.

13 Q How was the lawsuit the Schindler's

14 brought against you disposed of?

15 A They dismissed their case with prejudice

16 as long as I would not seek attorney's fees.

17 Q At some point in time, did you move

18 Terri from Sabal Palms Nursing Center?

19 A Yes. I did.

20 Q Where did Terri move to?

21 A Palm Garden, Largo.

22 Q Is that where she is currently staying?

23 A Yes. It is.

24 Q When did that occur?

25 A 1996, I believe.






66
1 Q How often did you -- how often do you

2 see Terri at Palm Garden in Largo?

3 A Currently?

4 Q Yes.

5 A Once or twice a week.

6 Q What do you do? How long do you stay?

7 What do you do when you see Terri?

8 A An hour-and-a-half, two hours. I

9 usually get there when Olga is bringing her out of

10 the shower. Help lift her. Get her dressed.

11 Usually blow dry her hair. Dry her hands off.

12 Put her pads in her hands. Usually check over her

13 skin. Make sure she does not have any tears or

14 whatever.

15 Q Do you still buy Terri's clothes for

16 her?

17 A Yes.

18 Q Do you still help dress Terri?

19 A Yes. Make sure she has her haircut

20 appointment. Do her wash. Make sure all her

21 needs are met.

22 Q By the way, Mr. Schiavo, all the times

23 that Terri has been hospitalized, how many times

24 would you say Terri has been hospitalized?

25 A Hospitalized?






67
1 Q For the various medical problems you

2 testified to before.

3 A Twenty times.

4 Q Has she ever been in the hospital one

5 day when you were not there?

6 A No. She has not.

7 Q How many times has Terri gone to the

8 doctor?

9 A Over a hundred, 130.

10 Q What is the logistics, mechanism of

11 getting Terri to the doctor?

12 A Depending on what the problem is, prior

13 we used to have to put her in SunStar ambulance.

14 Now she basically is transported by wheelchair

15 transport.

16 Q In those hundred or so doctor visits,

17 has there ever been a doctor visit for Terri where

18 you have not been there with her?

19 A No. There has not. I was there for

20 every one of them.

21 Q Was there a point in Terri's care where

22 you came to the decision that she should not be

23 medically treated for an infection?

24 A Yes. There was.

25 Q When did that occur?






68
1 A I believe it was in '94. '93, '94.

2 Q When did -- tell me how that came about?

3 A I took Terri to the doctors for a

4 bladder infection. The doctor recommended that we

5 don't treat the infection and that Terri should

6 have a "Do Not Resuscitate" order in place.

7 Q How did you feel about that when you

8 heard that?

9 A I was emotional, but I felt it was what

10 Terri would want.

11 Q Did you bring up the subject of the DNR

12 order, not treating the infection, first?

13 A No. The doctor did.

14 Q Did you make a decision to implement,

15 institute, a Do Not Resuscitate order and Do Not

16 Treat The Infection?

17 A Yes. I did.

18 Q What would have been the medical

19 consequences of not treating that infection?

20 A Terri -- the infection would basically

21 turn into a septic-type infection throughout her

22 body. It would naturally shut down her organs.

23 A painless process.

24 Q Was that decision implemented?

25 A Yes. It was.






69
1 Q Did the nursing home react to it at all?

2 A Yes. They did. They started getting

3 all upset. Telling me it was against the law to

4 do something like that.

5 Q How did -- did Mr. and Mrs. Schindler do

6 anything in response to your decision not to treat

7 the infection?

8 A They amended their original petition

9 and brought the new amended petition against me

10 that I was not treating the infection.

11 Q Didn't they accuse you of abusing Terri

12 by not treating the infection?

13 A Yes. They did.

14 Q Did you back off of the decision at

15 that time?

16 A Yes. I did. I had the nursing home, I

17 had the petition, and my emotions were running.

18 So I backed way off.

19 Q Back then in, I believe it was March of

20 1994, the Schindler's amended their petition in

21 regarding the decision not to treat. At that

22 time, why didn't you pursue removal of the feeding

23 tube?

24 A Because at that time my emotions were

25 running. I couldn't -- I was ready to do the






70
1 natural thing. I was not ready to pull the

2 feeding tube at that time.

3 Q Even though you knew Terri wanted it?

4 A Yes.

5 Q Why were you not able?

6 A It was -- I was not ready for that yet.

7 Q The Schindlers dismissed their petition

8 with prejudice in September of 1995 and this

9 petition was filed in 19 -- your current petition

10 to remove artificial life support was filed in May

11 of 1988 (sic). Why did you wait two-and-a-half

12 years to file the petition?

13 A I did not wait. I met you in the

14 beginning of 1996, I believe. I was talking to

15 another attorney.

16 Q Well, okay. I have to caution you not

17 to testify as to any communication you might have

18 with your attorney because of attorney/client

19 privilege. Let me ask it this way. Did you seek

20 to put into motion your decision to remove the

21 feeding tube before the petition was filed in May

22 of 1988 (sic)?

23 THE COURT: You keep saying '88.

24 MR. FELOS: '98. Thank you.

25 Your Honor.






71
1 Q (By Mr. Felos) When did you make the

2 decision and start putting it in motion?

3 A In 1995. End of 1995.

4 Q Mr. Schiavo, I would like to show you

5 Petitioner's Exhibit Number Four for

6 identification and ask you if you can identify

7 what those are.

8 A This is an affidavit from Dr. Gambone.

9 I believe it explains Terri's condition.

10 Q Affidavit of Dr. Gambone and affidavit

11 of --

12 A I'm sorry. James Barnhill.

13 Q And?

14 A Dr. Kamp.

15 MR. FELOS: Your Honor. I move to

16 introduce these into evidence as Petitioner's

17 Exhibit Number Four.

18 THE COURT: Is there an objection?

19 MS. CAMPBELL: No objection.

20 THE COURT: Thank you. They will be so

21 received.

22 (THEREUPON, PETITIONER'S EXHIBIT 4 WAS

23 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

24 Q (By Mr. Felos) Mr. Schiavo, you

25 mentioned that your mother passed away. When did






72
1 that occur?

2 A 1997. July.

3 Q Did that experience at all affect your

4 decision to bring this petition?

5 A My mother gave me a gift when she was

6 dying. We stopped her feeding because that is

7 what she wanted, and her medications. She gave me

8 that gift that it was okay to die.

9 Q Mr. Schiavo, why have you filed this

10 petition? Why are you asking the Court for

11 permission to remove Terri's feeding tube?

12 A Because that is what Terri wanted, and

13 it's my responsibility because I love her so much

14 to follow out what she wanted.

15 MR. FELOS: Thank you. No further

16 questions.

17 THE COURT: Why don't we take a short

18 break. Five minutes ought to be enough to stretch

19 and use the facilities and get back.

20 THE BAILIFF: All rise. Court stands in

21 recess.

22 (THEREUPON, A RECESS WAS HAD FROM 10:40 -

23 10:50 A.M.)

24 MR. FELOS: Your Honor, may I step out

25 and find co-counsel?






73
1 THE COURT: Yes, sir.

2 THE BAILIFF: Circuit court is back in

3 session.

4 THE COURT: Thank you.

5 MR. FELOS: May we approach a moment?

6 (THEREUPON, THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE

7 HAD AT THE BENCH.)

8 MR. FELOS: Your Honor, my client

9 requests that the proceedings not be recorded by

10 the media, and he believes that it would impair

11 the privacy rights of the ward and we make that

12 request.

13 THE COURT: What is the legal basis for

14 that? Is there any authority for keeping the

15 media out of here?

16 MR. FELOS: I have not researched the

17 issue, Your Honor. I have no case to present.

18 THE COURT: The bases are juvenile

19 proceedings are private and they cannot be in

20 those, but they can be outside the court. It's

21 interesting they can take --

22 MR. FELOS: There is some precedent in

23 the guardianship statute. There is a provision

24 for the court to be closed in incompetency

25 proceedings.






74

1 THE COURT: Incompetency proceedings.

2 And I have so ruled the media had no right to

3 those files or proceedings. This is different.

4 Do you know of any authority?

5 MS. CAMPBELL: I don't know of any.

6 While I'd like to see it agreed to, I don't know

7 of any legal authority that we could, because I

8 don't think there is anything under Chapter 119.

9 THE COURT: Absent authority, I don't

10 know how I can ask them to leave. If you would

11 like to take an additional recess and see if you

12 can prevail upon them, I'm willing to do that, but

13 I don't know of any legal authority for them to

14 not be here.

15 MR. FELOS: Then I say let's proceed, if

16 that is the ruling of the Court.

17 THE COURT: Thank you.

18 CROSS-EXAMINATION

19 BY MS. CAMPBELL:

20 Q Good morning, Mr. Schiavo. As you

21 recall, I am Pam Campbell. I represent Mr. and

22 Mrs. Schindler.

23 A Good morning.

24 Q The relationship that you currently

25 have, the lady's name, is it Jody Sintonsay






75
1 (phonetic)?

2 A Yes.

3 Q Could you describe that relationship for

4 me?

5 A We are boyfriend/girlfriend. We live

6 together.

7 Q Would you consider her your fiancee?

8 A I would consider her -- yes. Yes.

9 Q Has she ever been so noticed as anything

10 in writing in the newspaper as your fiancee?

11 A Yes.

12 Q You and she own a house together; is

13 that correct?

14 A Yes.

15 Q Can you recall going on the train tip

16 incident that you referred to with Mr. Felos, can

17 can you recall the time frame when you and Terri

18 were coming on the train to Florida?

19 A What do you mean the time frame?

20 Q When was that?

21 A I believe it was in '86.

22 Q 1986?

23 A Yeah. '86. I'm not good with dates and

24 times, like I told you before.

25 Q Wasn't it in October of 1985?






76
1 A I don't recall the month. It was the

2 month that her grandmother passed away.

3 Q You were married November of '84?

4 A November 10th. Yes.

5 Q You came to the Schindlers' condominium

6 in St. Petersburg for a honeymoon right after

7 that?

8 A Correct.

9 Q Then in '85, the spring of '85, did you

10 come back to St. Petersburg for a vacation?

11 A Did we come back?

12 Q A plane trip?

13 A I don't believe so. I don't recall

14 that.

15 Q After Terri's accident, which was

16 February 1990, were you employed at that time?

17 A After Terri's accident? Yes. I was.

18 Q Shortly after the accident, didn't you

19 stop working at Agostino's?

20 A Yes.

21 Q When did you then become reemployed?

22 A I went back to Agostino's for a month or

23 so. I worked part-time for them. They were under

24 new ownership so -- and that went belly up. Then

25 I just -- I didn't work. I went back to school in






77
1 '93, I believe.

2 Q And you began your employment with

3 Morton Plant in 1996?

4 A Correct.

5 Q So basically from the beginning of 1990

6 until 1996 you were unemployed; is that correct?

7 A Yes.

8 Q You were talking about some of the fund

9 raisers that you testified to previously. Can you

10 tell me about some of the details of the fund

11 raisers?

12 A We sold hot dogs, or I sold hot dogs on

13 St. Petersburg Beach. We sold pretzels at the

14 Publix. We had a Valentine's Day dance for her

15 with the association. The association I believe,

16 around Christmas, they put a luminary -- you buy

17 the bag in Terri's name. They did that on St.

18 Pete Beach to help raise money.

19 Q where were all those funds that you were

20 raising, where were they being maintained?

21 A At First Union Bank.

22 Q Did she work for Prudential at the time?

23 A Yes.

24 Q Did the Prudential employees get

25 together and have a fund raiser?






78
1 A I don't recall. I don't remember that.

2 Q Was there a fund raiser promoted by the

3 St. Petersburg Times, Channel 10 and Channel 8?

4 A Yes. I said I was on the news.

5 Q About how much money did all those

6 different fund raisers raise?

7 A Probably close to about 20,000. I'm not

8 sure. You would have to check on the old

9 records.

10 Q Did you also receive a payment, pay-out,

11 from Prudential from insurance proceeds that Terri

12 was entitled to?

13 A It was her life insurance, yes, that she

14 was entitled to.

15 Q How much was that?

16 A 10,000.

17 Q Did you also receive Terri's social

18 security checks during that time frame?

19 A No. Terri could not get social security

20 because she was still receiving her payment from

21 work.

22 Q Did you receive any SSI from Terri?

23 A No.

24 Q Did you move to Florida from

25 Philadelphia in April 1986?






79
1 A That sounds correct.

2 Q And you lived in the Schindlers' condo?

3 A Yes. We did.

4 Q How much rent were you paying at the

5 time?

6 A I don't recall.

7 Q About $400 a month?

8 A Sounds correct. Yeah.

9 Q Now you testified previously that

10 afterwards you moved to Thunder Bay. Isn't it

11 true that you moved to McGregor Place?

12 A Yes. Yes. I'm sorry. I forgot about

13 that one.

14 Q You moved to McGregor Place in September

15 1989; is that correct?

16 A I don't remember the date.

17 Q If you could bear with me and listen to

18 the time frame. I believe you testified that you

19 moved into the Schindlers' condo in April of '86

20 and then moved to McGregor Place, I'm asking you,

21 in 1989? Was it previously to --

22 A I don't recall the dates, ma'am.

23 Q Was it right prior to Terri's accident,

24 which would have been in February 1990?

25 A I don't recall the dates that we moved






80
1 in there and moved around. The accident happened

2 at Thunder Bay.

3 Q How long did you live in McGregor Place?

4 A I just remembered it. I don't

5 remember.

6 Q Months?

7 A It was a few months. Yeah.

8 Q How long did you live in Thunder Bay

9 prior to Terri's accident?

10 A Eight months, I believe. I'm not sure.

11 Q During that entire time that you were

12 living in the Schindlers' condo, from '86 until

13 sometime in '89, were you paying rent consistently

14 during that time?

15 A No. We were not.

16 MR. FELOS: Objection. I believe that

17 is a mischaracterization of his testimony. He

18 didn't testify that he lived in the Schindler's

19 condo from '86 to 1989.

20 THE COURT: I'll overrule the

21 objection. I think there is enough in there to

22 allow that kind of question.

23 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. Repeat the

24 question.

25 Q (By Ms. Campbell) Did you pay rent to






81
1 the Schindlers then during that entire time you

2 were living in the Schindler's condo?

3 A No. They were gracious and let us slide

4 a couple months when we could not afford it.

5 Q Just a few months?

6 A I don't remember how many months, ma'am.

7 Q Did the Schindlers assist you in moving

8 from Philadelphia to St. Petersburg?

9 A No. I don't recall.

10 Q Did they contribute $900 for your moving

11 expenses?

12 A I don't recall that.

13 Q When you moved from the Schindlers'

14 condo, is it your testimony then that you moved

15 from the Schindlers' condo to McGregor Place?

16 A That would have to be. Yeah.

17 Q When you moved from the condo to

18 McGregor Place, did the Schindlers loan you money

19 at that time to secure a new apartment?

20 A I don't recall.

21 Q Right after Terri's accident, wasn't

22 Mrs. Schindler right there by your side helping

23 with Terri each step of the way?

24 A Not all the time. No.

25 Q Would you describe your relationship as






82
1 close in trying to assist Terri?

2 A My mother-in-law and I were close. Yes.

3 Q In February of 1991, a year after the

4 accident, didn't you, the three of you, live

5 together?

6 A Yes.

7 Q You and Mr. and Mrs. Schindler?

8 A Yes.

9 Q With the hopes that Terri would then

10 ultimately come home and live there with you?

11 A Yes.

12 Q At that time, were you sharing in the

13 expenses, you and the Schindlers?

14 A Which home are you speaking of?

15 Q Hemosita in Del Mar?

16 A That home was in my name. I was paying

17 half the rent. Mr. and Mrs. Schindler and their

18 daughter were paying the other half.

19 Q Other expenses that you shared, Florida

20 Power, telephone bill, they were shared as well?

21 A Yes.

22 Q You were in the larger home with hopes

23 that Terri would be able to come and live there

24 with you?

25 A We were in the larger home, but it was






83
1 not with the hopes that Terri could live with us.

2 Because we only rented the place.

3 Q Was there a reason why it was in, the

4 lease was in your name as opposed to

5 Mr. Schindler's name?

6 A Because Mr. and Mrs. Schindler went

7 bankrupt and they could not get credit.

8 Q But you all shared the home equally?

9 A Mr. and Mrs. Schindler and Suzanne and

10 myself.

11 Q Was there a time then in that you moved

12 from that house to another house with the

13 Schindlers?

14 A No.

15 Q When you were describing the different

16 places where Terri went, from Northside to

17 Bayfront and to the Mediplex, College Harbor,

18 would Mrs. Schindler go with you to those

19 individual facilities to visit Terri?

20 A She went. Yes. But not all the time.

21 Q The time Terri was home living in the

22 home with you, Mrs. Schindler lived there, too?

23 A Yes.

24 Q Did she assist you in taking care of

25 Terri during that time frame?






84
1 A Yes. She did.

2 Q The incident then that happened, the

3 disagreement in Terri's room in February of 1993

4 between you and Mr. and Mrs. Schindler, to that

5 time frame, was it shortly thereafter that you

6 decided to withhold medical information from the

7 Schindlers?

8 A I don't know the exact time frame, but I

9 believe it was.

10 Q Do you recall then how long it was then

11 until you started allowing the Schindlers to learn

12 more about the medical condition of their

13 daughter?

14 A I don't recall the time frame.

15 Q Do you recall in 1996 your attorney,

16 Deborah Bushnell, sending a letter to the

17 Schindlers allowing them to now be able to get

18 information about their daughter?

19 A Yes. I remember that.

20 Q Prior to that kind of communication

21 going in 1996 -- so from '93 to 1996, did you

22 allow the nursing home to talk to Mr. and Mrs.

23 Schindler about their daughter's medical

24 condition?

25 A Yeah. Um-hmm.






85
1 Q It's your testimony here today that the

2 nursing home was permitted, from 1993 to 1996, to

3 discuss Terri's medical condition with the

4 Schindlers?

5 A I believe after I left I told them not

6 to -- to disregard or whatever, that other order.

7 Yeah. I'm not sure of the exact time frame.

8 Q Would it surprise you to know that the

9 nursing home was not giving out information during

10 that time frame to Mr. and Mrs. Schindler?

11 MR. FELOS: Objection. Lack of

12 foundation.

13 THE COURT: Overruled.

14 A I'm sorry. Repeat your question.

15 Q (By Ms. Campbell) Would it surprise you

16 to know that the nursing home was not giving out

17 information to Mr. and Mrs. Schindler from '93 to

18 '96?

19 A The way Sabal Palms went, it would not

20 surprise me. But I know they get information.

21 Q I'm sorry. What was the last point?

22 A I know they did get information.

23 Q Who do you believe they received

24 information from?

25 A Elaine Nelson. The social worker.






86
1 Q From Sabal Palms?

2 A Yes.

3 Q And the different facilities that you

4 would take Terri to, for example when she would go

5 to Largo Medical Center for hospitalization, were

6 you ever requested as the guardian as to whether

7 or not there were any advanced directives from

8 Theresa Schiavo?

9 A From the hospital?

10 Q Yes.

11 A I don't remember any of those.

12 Q On any of the hospital admission dates,

13 do you recall anyone from admissions going over

14 paperwork with you?

15 A Yeah.

16 Q Do you recall them asking you whether or

17 not Theresa Schiavo had any advanced directives

18 such as a living will?

19 A I don't recall them asking that.

20 Q What do you believe that your testimony

21 would have been to that? What do you think your

22 answer would have been?

23 A If they would have asked me at that time

24 frame that she was --

25 Q The question is whether or not she had a






87
1 living will?

2 A My answer would be no. She does not

3 have a living will.

4 Q Did you ever seek legal assistance or

5 authorize an attorney to demand payment

6 reimbursement to you of the Schindlers for some

7 money for a credit card debt?

8 A This -- I don't recall that.

9 Q In 1993, do you recall an attorney Jan

10 Piper?

11 A Yes. I do.

12 Q Do you recall Mr. Piper sending a letter

13 to Mr. and Mrs. Schindler on your behalf demanding

14 payment of, a refund of some credit card debt?

15 A I remember him sending a letter. I

16 don't know if it was about a credit card.

17 Q What was your recollection of what was

18 the dispute between you and Mr. and Mrs.

19 Schindler?

20 A I don't remember, but I don't think it

21 was a credit card.

22 Q You do recall Mr. Piper sending a letter

23 on your behalf to the Schindlers? A demand

24 letter?

25 A I do recall that. Yes.






88
1 Q Is it your testimony here today that

2 you never agreed with Mr. and Mrs. Schindler to

3 reimburse them for any of the expenses that they

4 had advanced to you and Terri in the way of moving

5 expenses?

6 A I never agreed with them.

7 Q You never agreed to reimburse them?

8 A I never agreed. They never even brought

9 it up.

10 Q So your testimony is today that you and

11 the Schindlers never discussed repayment of any of

12 the loans made to you?

13 A No. We have never discussed that.

14 MR. FELOS: Your Honor, objection. The

15 question is improper because the witness has

16 denied that there were any loans. The question

17 is --

18 THE COURT: The question is did you ever

19 agree to reimburse. I don't know how you

20 categorize it. We can get real technical. I

21 think the Court understands the nature of the

22 question. I will allow it.

23 MS. CAMPBELL: The question went to a

24 discussion between he and the Schindlers, and I

25 believe the answer was no. There was no other






89
1 discussions. No further questions.

2 THE COURT: Thank you. Redirect?

3 REDIRECT EXAMINATION

4 BY MR. FELOS:

5 Q Just to clarify a couple of things, Mr.

6 Schiavo, there was some testimony about life

7 insurance. Was in fact the payments that Terri

8 received disability payments from Prudential?

9 A Yes.

10 Q Not life insurance benefits?

11 A Yes.

12 Q You also testified about social security

13 benefits. I recall you saying that Terri did not

14 receive social security benefits. Was that during

15 the time she was receiving disability from

16 Prudential?

17 A Say it again to me.

18 Q Did Terri ever -- did Terri ever receive

19 any social security benefits while she was

20 receiving disability payments from Prudential?

21 A No.

22 Q Did she receive social security payments

23 after that?

24 A Yes.

25 Q In fact, are you aware of any written