Subject: testimony dated 11-05-92

1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT IN AND FOR PINELLAS COUNTY, FLORIDA

2 CASE NO. 92-939-15

3 ----------------------------------X
BARNETT BANK TRUST COMPANY as :
4 Guardian of the Property of :
THERESA SCHIAVO and MICHAEL :
5 SCHIAVO, individually, :
:
6 Plaintiffs, :
:
7 vs. :
:
8 G. STEPHEN IGEL, M.D. :
:
9 Defendant. :
----------------------------------X
10
BEFORE: The Honorable PHILIP A. FEDERICO
11 Circuit Judge

12 PLACE: Courtroom B
Pinellas County Courthouse
13 Clearwater, Florida 34616

14 DATE: November 5, 1992

15 TIME: Commencing at 9:00 A.M.

16 REPORTED BY: JOANNE GERBINO
Deputy Official Court Reporter
17 Sixth Judicial Circuit
State of Florida
18

19 -----------------------------
EXCERPT OF JURY TRIAL
20 TESTIMONY OF MICHAEL RICHARD SCHIAVO
-----------------------------
21
PAGES 1 - 48
22
ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES
23 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
315 COURT STREET, ROOM 3
24 CLEARWATER, FLORIDA 34616
(813) 462-4858/(813) 530-6491
25

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2


1 APPEARANCES: GLENN M. WOODWORTH, ESQUIRE
WOODWORTH & ASSOCIATES,
2 CHARTERED
Wittner Centre West
3 5999 Central Avenue
St. Petersburg, Florida 33710
4 and
GARY D. FOX, ESQUIRE
5 STEWART, TILGHMAN, FOX &
BLANCHI
6 44 West Flagler Street
Suite 1900
7 Miami, Florida 33130-1808

8

9

10 KENNETH C. DEACON, JR., ESQUIRE
HARRIS, BARRETT, MANN & DEW
11 Suite 1500
Southtrust Bank Building
12 150 Second Avenue North
St. Petersburg, Florida 33731
13 Attorney for Defendant

14

15 INDEX OF PROCEEDINGS

16 PAGE

17 Direct Examination by Mr. Woodworth 3

18 Cross-Examination by Mr. Deacon 28

19 Redirect Examination by Mr. Woodworth 45

20

21 INDEX OF EXHIBITS

22 PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBITS ID IN EVID

23 #3 - Photo of Terry prior to collapse 24 26

24 #4 - Photo of Terry prior to collapse 24 26

25

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1 P R O C E E D I N G S

2 * * * * * * *

3 THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Moffat.

4 All right. Next witness, please.

5 MR. WOODWORTH: If the Court, please, we'd call

6 our last witness Michael Schiavo.

7 THE COURT: Mr. Schiavo, come forward, please.

8 THE BAILIFF: Sir, please stand here. Face the

9 Clerk. Raise your right hand to take the oath.

10 THEREUPON,

11 MICHAEL SCHIAVO

12 was called as a witness and after having been first duly

13 sworn on oath, was examined and testified as follows:

14 THE BAILIFF: Have a seat in the witness stand.

15 Speak up in a loud and clear voice.

16 DIRECT EXAMINATION

17 BY MR. WOODWORTH:

18 Q. State your full name, please.

19 A. My name is Michael Richard Schiavo.

20 Q. How old are you?

21 A. Twenty-nine.

22 Q. Where were you born?

23 A. I was born in Levittown, Pennsylvania.

24 Q. Where did you grow up?

25 A. In Levittown, Pennsylvania.

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1 Q. Tell us a little bit about yourself. How many

2 brothers and sisters did you have?

3 A. I have four older brothers. I'm the baby of the

4 family. I did my whole history of schooling up there,

5 elementary, middle and high school, I even went to a year

6 and a half college, Bucks County, Pennsylvania.

7 Q. Michael, speak up so everybody can hear you in

8 the courtroom.

9 A. Sorry.

10 Q. Lousy acoustics.

11 You said you went to college in Pennsylvania?

12 A. Yes, I did.

13 Q. Is that where you met Terry?

14 A. Yes, it was.

15 Q. How far into college were you when you all met?

16 A. We were basically into the second semester of

17 college. It's basically a year.

18 Q. How old were you when you met Terry?

19 A. I was twenty-one.

20 Q. How old was Terry?

21 A. Twenty.

22 Q. Did you all start seeing each other and fall in

23 love?

24 A. Yes, we did.

25 Q. How long did you date?

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1 A. We dated approximately five months.

2 Q. Then you got married?

3 A. Then we gotten engaged and we were engaged for a

4 year and a half.

5 Q. Okay. After you got married, did both of you

6 start to work?

7 A. Before we got married we started work.

8 Q. Okay. And did she come to get a job at Prudential

9 Insurance Company up in Pennsylvania?

10 A. Yes, she did.

11 Q. And ultimately did you all decide you wanted to

12 move down to Florida?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. How long were you married when you decided to

15 move to Florida?

16 A. Approximately a year.

17 Q. So, did she get a transfer of her job with

18 Prudential and start working for Prudential when you all

19 moved here?

20 A. Yes, she did.

21 Q. When did you move to Florida?

22 A. In April of '86.

23 Q. Did her mom and dad move down shortly after you

24 did?

25 A. I believe it was three months after we did.

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1 Q. How much did Terry weigh when you all got married?

2 A. When we were married she weighed 145 pounds.

3 Q. While you were engaged, did she weigh about that

4 amount or more or less?

5 A. She weighed -- she weighed more when we were

6 engaged.

7 Q. Okay. After you all moved to Florida, did Terry

8 lose more weight?

9 A. Yes, she did.

10 Q. And how far down the weight scale did she go?

11 A. I can remember Terry being about 110, 115 pounds.

12 Q. How did she feel about losing all that weight?

13 How did she feel about herself?

14 A. Terry felt very happy with herself. She was

15 content. She was very excited with herself.

16 Q. So far as you knew was Terry in good health?

17 A. As far as I knew.

18 Q. Tell our jury, if you will, what your impressions

19 of her eating habits were, particularly after you got to

20 Florida. You understand my question?

21 A. No, I don't. Can you rephrase it?

22 Q. What I'm asking, did you notice anything unusual

23 about her eating?

24 A. I noticed some peculiar eating habits, especially

25 on Sunday which was my day off, and she'd make breakfast

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1 and she would make a huge omlette, I'm not talking Bob Evans

2 omlette, I'm talking huge omlette, and sit there and eat all

3 of it or we'd order a pizza and she'd eat practically all

4 of it.

5 Q. How about her normal eating habits, if she wasn't

6 eating one of these big Sunday breakfasts or one of these

7 pizzas, did she have any other eating habits that you

8 thought were unusual or peculiar?

9 A. No, she ate normally otherwise.

10 Q. Did you have any indication that Terry had any

11 kind of a psychological problem or a eating disorder as

12 we've heard about during this trial?

13 A. None whatsoever.

14 Q. Tell our jury about her habits of drinking fluids.

15 Did you notice anything unusual about that?

16 A. I noticed she would consume a large amount of

17 iced tea. She would consume close to a gallon of it in

18 one day.

19 Q. Was that like everyday or just once in a while?

20 A. I seen her do it on my day off on Sunday. I spent

21 two or three hours with her during the evening with her and

22 she had a couple glasses of iced tea then. I don't know

23 what she did any other time when I didn't see her.

24 Q. Tell us about her work schedule, let's say, during

25 the period of the year before she had her collapse. Was she

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1 working during the day at Prudential?

2 A. Yes, she was.

3 Q. And were you working the night shift, so to speak,

4 or during the evenings as a manager of a restaurant?

5 A. Yes, I was.

6 Q. What restaurant were you the manager of?

7 A. Agastino's Restaurant.

8 Q. Out in Feathersound?

9 A. Feathersound on Ulmerton Road.

10 Q. Okay. So for a while there you all were not

11 spending your schedules on a regular basis together, you

12 were working when she was home and vice versa?

13 A. Correct, we were.

14 Q. Okay. When she lost this weight down into the

15 one hundred twenties, in the hundred, what did you say,

16 eighteens?

17 A. I said between 110 and 115.

18 Q. Did you notice that that caused her to have

19 stretch marks?

20 A. I've noticed stretch marks on her, yes.

21 Q. And did you also notice that her skin was loose

22 on her arms and her legs?

23 A. Yes, I did.

24 Q. Did there come a time when you got concerned about

25 the fact that Terry was getting skinnier than you wanted her

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1 to be and did you talk to her about it?

2 A. I mentioned it a couple times to her and got to

3 the point where a couple times when she took off her blouse

4 or something at night, I could see her bones, collarbones

5 and shoulder bones would stick out, and I'd mention, Terry,

6 enough is enough, let's gain a little weight now, and that

7 was that.

8 Q. Did you all decide at some point that you wanted

9 to start your family?

10 A. Yes, we did.

11 Q. And in terms of when she first went to see

12 Dr. Igel, let's say in February of 1989, was that about the

13 time you all decided to start your family?

14 A. Could you repeat that for me?

15 Q. When did you decide?

16 A. We decided somewhere, I believe it was in July.

17 Q. Okay. Tell us, if you will, about your knowledge

18 of Terry's menstrual cycle. Did you know that she had an

19 irregular menstrual cycle from time-to-time?

20 A. From which time-to-time, I mean before we were

21 married?

22 Q. Did you know she had an irregular menstrual cycle?

23 I'm sorry for the way I asked the question.

24 A. Yes, I did.

25 Q. Did you know that the whole time you knew her?

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1 A. No, no.

2 Q. When did you find out that she had an irregular

3 menstrual cycle?

4 A. When she started seeing the doctor, Dr. Prawer.

5 Q. Okay. And he referred her to Dr. Igel for it?

6 A. Yes, he did.

7 Q. Did you know that when she was a youngster she had

8 an irregular menstrual cycle?

9 A. No, I did not.

10 Q. Did Terry ever go to Dr. Igel thinking she might

11 be pregnant?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. What was her reaction when she found out on those

14 occasions that she wasn't pregnant?

15 A. We were both devastated.

16 Q. Do you recall the early morning of February 25th,

17 1990?

18 A. Yes, I do.

19 Q. That was the morning early when you woke up to

20 Terry's collapse?

21 A. Correct.

22 Q. And the EMS people came?

23 A. Correct.

24 Q. And finally got her breathing started?

25 A. Yes.

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1 Q. And she was taken off to Humana Northside in an

2 ambulance or EMS emergency vehicle?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. All right. When she got there, you went with her?

5 A. Yes, I did.

6 Q. Her mom and dad had been called and they went as

7 well?

8 A. They met us there, yes.

9 Q. How long was Terry in that hospital?

10 A. She was from February 25, '90 to May 9th of '90.

11 Q. And did you visit her regularly while she was

12 there?

13 A. Yes, I did.

14 Q. In fact, did you stay at that hospital?

15 A. Yes, I did. I stayed there for 16 days and

16 nights straight.

17 Q. And during that period of time, obviously, that

18 was real stressful and difficult for you?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. You had occasion to talk to your -- to her

21 doctors from time-to-time?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. The main doctor that she had there was who?

24 A. Dr. Shah.

25 Q. S-H-A-H?

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1 A. Correct, yes.

2 Q. And also she had other doctors including

3 Dr. Barras, we've heard him testify?

4 A. Correct.

5 Q. And Dr. Shukinon (phonetic), the infectitious

6 disease doctor?

7 A. Correct.

8 Q.. Did these doctors ask you about Terry's eating

9 habits?

10 A. I don't recall them asking me about them, I mean,

11 with all the commotion going on, you know.

12 Q. Okay. Do you recall them asking you anything

13 about her intake of fluids, asking you anything about her

14 intake of fluids?

15 A. Dr. Shah mentioned to me if Terry drank a lot of

16 coffee, and I said, no, she did drink a lot of iced tea and

17 that was --

18 Q. And you told him the same thing you told us --

19 A. Correct.

20 Q. -- about the gallon a day?

21 A. Yes, she drank close to a gallon a day.

22 Q. All right. Do you recall whether or not you told

23 Dr. Shah or any of the other doctors that you had been

24 concerned that she had not been eating enough because she

25 was getting so thin from time-to-time?

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1 A. I don't actually recall saying that, I might have.

2 Q. Okay. After Terry was discharged from Humana

3 Northside, where did she then go?

4 A. She went from Humana to College Harbor Nursing

5 Home.

6 Q. And how long was she there?

7 A. She was there for 49 days.

8 Q. And then we heard Dr. Barras tell us about how he

9 then had her moved over to Bayfront?

10 A. Correct.

11 Q. To the rehabilitation facility there?

12 A. Correct.

13 Q. And then after she left Bayfront you all brought

14 her home to a house that you and your mother-in-law and

15 father-in-law, Mr. and Mrs. Schindler, had for Terry to

16 come to?

17 A. Yeah, we all got together, rented a house and

18 knew Terry would be coming home with us.

19 Q. And how long did she stay home with you all?

20 A. She was home with us approximately three or four

21 months.

22 Q. And the three of you then tried to take care of

23 her around the clock?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And those were difficult times, I would take it?

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1 A. Yes, it was very difficult.

2 Q. After that what did you do as far as Terry is

3 concerned, where did she go?

4 A. Terry went back to College Harbor again, I

5 believe, for a couple weeks in the transition of us taking

6 her to California.

7 Q. You and Dr. Barras and her mom and dad and

8 Dr. Barras talked about this program in California that

9 might be of some help?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. That Dr. Haso --

12 A. Hasbuchi.

13 Q. Have we already had his name spelled? I hope so.

14 I can't spell it. She then stayed out there in California

15 with Dr. Hasbuchi for how long?

16 A. Two months.

17 Q. And she had these electrodes planted?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Do you think that did any good?

20 A. It didn't do anything for her.

21 Q. But it was worth a try?

22 A. Yes, anything is worth a try.

23 Q. So after she came back, where did she go?

24 A. From California she came back to live with us

25 for about a week. I'm sorry, for nine days. She was with

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1 us for nine days.

2 Q. While you were all making arrangements for her to

3 go to Mebiplex?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Tell us, Mebiplex down in Bradenton?

6 A. Mebiplex deals with stroke victims, spinal

7 problems, head injuries. It's a facility dealing with

8 extensive rehab trying to break people from their comas and

9 bringing them up to different levels of a coma.

10 Q. Okay. How long was she there?

11 A. Six months.

12 Q. Was Dr. Alcavarian (phonetic) her main doctor

13 there?

14 A. Yes, he was. Yes.

15 Q. Did they rehabilitate her to any degree there?

16 Were they able to make any strives or headway?

17 A. No.

18 Q. By the way, let me back up, how did Terry actually

19 physically get from here to California?

20 A. I had a lot of fund raisers and I raised some

21 money to fly her out to California.

22 Q. Did you fly commercial or how?

23 A. Yes, we flew commercial. We flew, I believe it

24 was Eastern. We had to buy four First Class seats and took

25 two seats out to put a stretcher in and I took a critical

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1 care nurse with me.

2 Q. And that's how you got her back, too?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. After Mebiplex, where did she go?

5 A. Mebiplex she went to Sabal Palms.

6 Q. She's been at Sabal Palms ever since?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Did you select Sabal Palms? Did you check it out

9 and decide that's a good place for her?

10 A. Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

11 Q. What I'm going to do now is ask we get our video

12 started, it it's all right, Your Honor, and I would like you

13 to, Michael, to get where you can see the screen and tell

14 the jury, if you will, what's going on in this video.

15 A. Okay. You want me to use his, too, or --

16 Q. No, I think you best come down here. If you can

17 see it from right over there, that will be fine. Can you

18 see it from there? Maybe you can come over here with me.

19 Is that fine, Your Honor?

20 THE COURT: Certainly..

21 MR. WOODWORTH: With the Court's permission, while

22 we're getting this started, early on, if I may, let me

23 just orient us. We originally told the jury we would

24 bring Terry in in lieu of this film. Your Honor, we

25 think that this will take care of that. This is a film

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1 that was made relatively recently at Sabal Palms which

2 is designed to compress the average day for Terry into

3 a twenty minute video so that you all, so the jury can

4 have an opportunity to see what the day was like.

5 And if we can start the video now.

6 Q. (BY MR. WOODWORTH:) Mike, if you will, just as we

7 go along, tell the jury what's happening here.

8 Do you remember when we went over to Sabal Palms?

9 Tell the jury what's going on now.

10 A. Right here, basically, you can see she's dressed,

11 she's already had her shower and everything. We would get

12 her dressed, put her shoes and socks on. I'm trying out her

13 hands there. You have to keep the inside of the hands,

14 since she's contracted, you have to keep them dry because

15 infection can set in, and I usually do a little bit of range

16 of motion with her.

17 Q. And while you're doing that, do you talk to her?

18 A. Yes, I am talking to her right now telling her

19 it's okay.

20 Q. She doesn't like that very much?

21 A. No, she doesn't. She does feel pain..

22 MR. DEACON: I would have no problem.

23 with Mr. Schiavo --

24 MR. WOODWORTH: That's true.

25 MR. DEACON: I object to the comments by

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1 Mr. Woodworth.

2 MR. WOODWORTH: I'll ask questions.

3 THE COURT: Thank you.

4 Q. (BY MR. WOODWORTH:) Does she like that kind of

5 treatment very much?

6 A. No, she does not. Here I'm trying to bend her

7 leg.

8 Q. Now, I notice under her legs when you did that the

9 skin is very loose; is that true?

10 A. Yes, it is. Now we're about to transfer her to

11 her wheelchair.

12 Q. Michael, at this time now does she weigh more than

13 she did when she went to see Dr. Igel?

14 A. No, she doesn't weigh more. What I was just doing

15 with the pad there, it's a jay cushion, and you have to keep

16 it pushed down, you have to move that gel in there around so

17 it fits nicely around her bottom end. We'll sit her up on

18 the edge of the bed and my mother-in-law takes the feet and

19 I'll take the top end and we transfer her into her chair and

20 slide her down, and usually we're pretty careful about the

21 aligning of her body and her hips.

22 Now we'll go about and put the different fixtures on

23 the chair and strap her in.

24 Q. I notice, Michael, you're holding her head back.

25 why are you doing that?

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1 A. Because she'll fall forward, and if she falls fast

2 she gets excited. It's -- I was told by a doctor she was

3 getting the feeling she's falling. This is the cross bar

4 that goes across her chest to keep her from falling forward.

5 This is the tray that goes in front of her arms that holds

6 her instead of her arms contracting in, to hold them out,

7 and we'll also place pillows. You'll see.

8 Now, we'll put the leg braces on.

9 Q. Why do you put the leg braces on for?

10 A. To help her to keep her knees more bent to help

11 stretch the top muscles of her legs and so it doesn't

12 shorten her legs and the legs won't become stiff and

13 straight out. And we strap her feet in to help because

14 she has foot drop right now and that helps bend the foot

15 down pulling those muscles and putting the foot down.

16 Here I'm brushing her teeth.

17 Q. Do you take her to the dentist from time-to-time?

18 A. Yes, we do.

19 Q. How often do you do that?

20 A. We try to do it twice a year. As a matter of

21 fact, she has an appointment Monday.

22 We try to keep her teeth as clean as possible. It's

23 very hard for us to get into the back of her mouth. She

24 clamps down and bites down on the toothbrush.. I've had

25 problems before using the suction catheter and she bit the

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1 suction catheter there.

2 Q. What are you doing now?

3 A. I'm putting on makeup. I put on her makeup

4 everyday and I'm finishing up her lipstick.

5 This is the speech pathologist who comes in and works

6 with Terry.

7 Q. This is the speech pathologist you say?

8 A. Yes, it's the speech pathologist.

9 Q. What does he do for her?

10 A. He comes in and massages her lips and uses

11 different flavors to try to help her swallow.. You'll

12 notice he's moving her lips and it helps massage the side

13 of the mouth so the mouth doesn't tighten up..

14 Q. You hoping he can get her to the point where she

15 swallows?

16 A. Yes. You see here rubbing the bottom of her

17 throat, that's, I don't know what the word is, gets them to

18 swallow when you rub the bottom of their throat. She just

19 swallowed that time. Sometimes they use ice on her face,

20 too. It's a stimulation.

21 Q. What is that, Mike?

22 A. That's a -- that is basically used to stimulate

23 her tongue and the back of her tongue to help with her gag

24 reflex. And like I said, sometimes they use different

25 flavors.

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1 Q. What are you getting ready to do here?

2 A. We're getting ready to put what's called a tilt

3 table. The lady is helping me and what we'll do is just

4 slide her over to this table.

5 Q. And then after you get her on the table, what

6 happens then?

7 A. We will slowly stand her to a standing position.

8 Q. Why do you do that?

9 A. This is very good for like, she has drop legs, and

10 it's good for stretching the Achilles tendon and good for

11 the skin and good for contractors and good for circulation,

12 and it's good for somebody in Terry's condition that lies

13 down all the time. It's good for when -- it's good for

14 replacing the organs in your system back to where they're

15 supposed to be. Now while they're doing this, they usually

16 monitor the blood pressure.

17 Now we're just going to transfer her back into the bed.

18 This is where I'm getting her ready to start her feeding.

19 What that bottle is is her food. It's basically all

20 nutrition. It is all nutritious food. That wire I'm

21 playing with right there will connect to her catheter or her

22 Peg tube as they call it.

23 Q. That's the tube that goes into her stomach?

24 A. Into her stomach.

25 Q. How long does that feeding take place? How long

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1 does it take to accomplish that?

2 A. They start her 6:00 in the morning and complete

3 the runs until 8:00 the next morning.

4 Q. Now what I'm doing here is changing the dressing

5 around the stoma. The stoma is very, very important, the

6 most important part of her medical treatment is right

7 now due to the fact that the acids from her stomach could

8 come up through that hole, and if that happens, it's very,

9 very irritating and it's very, very hard to clear up.

10 Acid from your stomach can burn a hole in the rug.

11 What we do is we apply some, what we call Bactroban, it

12 helps soothe the area and keeps the bugs down, also. And

13 if that tube were to come out accidentally and nobody knew it,

14 they would have to take Terry to the hospital and have it

15 opened up again because it will close within five minutes

16 that stoma.

17 Q. What's the problem over here?

18 A. Terry had a persistent sore on top of her toe, and

19 the hand you see is Dr. Brown the podiatrist coming in and

20 treating it. And what you'll see is see the blackened area

21 keeps coming back and they don't know why so she'll scrape

22 it and see what's going on.

23 Q. Did she have problems with a toe on her other

24 foot? I think we heard some other testimony from Dr. Mulroy

25 about a toe that had to be amputated?

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1 A. On her left foot. The small toe developed an

2 ulceration, what we believe were the potis boots we were

3 using for her and turned to osteomyelitis and her toe had to

4 be removed. The bone had to be taken out.

5 This is the physical therapist that's coming in now.

6 When he gets set up, I'll explain to you what he's doing.

7 The people you see now are assistants.

8 Q. Does she express discomfort when some of these

9 things are happening to her?

10 A. Yes. Yes, she does.

11 Q. How does she do that?

12 A. She'll moan and groan.

13 Q. What are these therapists trying to do for her?

14 A. At the moment they're setting her up so they can

15 use ultrasound on the back of her heel cord and calves.

16 Q. What is that supposed to do?

17 A. Ultrasound helps to relax the muscles to be better

18 stretched. You'll see when he does it, he'll start

19 stretching the heel cord or the Achilles tendons.

20 Q. Is that a lamb's wool protector over that side

21 rail?

22 A. Yes, it is. Now, this is the other leg they're

23 doing.

24 Q. And I see is she all healed up on -- from the

25 amputation on that foot?

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1 A. Yes, she's all healed, yes.

2 Now what he's going to start to do is going to stretch

3 that muscle out here.

4 Q. In one fashion or another, Mike, are all of the

5 joints of her body limbered up in some fashion with these

6 various kinds of things that you all are doing for her?

7 A. It's preventing them from getting any worse, yes.

8 And what he's doing right there is pretty uncomfortable.

9 He's working more with her. We take her out for walks.

10 usually take her out to the pond and sit and feed the ducks.

11 And now the cooler weather is coming and they have a

12 baseball field next to her and little leaguers play ball.

13 I like to get her outside for fresh air.

14 Q. Okay. You can resume your seat.

15 MR. WOODWORTH: Your Honor, I'm fairly close to

16 finishing and if its' all right with the Court, we can

17 leave the equipment there for the time.

18 THE COURT: That's fine.

19 Q. (BY MR. WOODWORTH:) Michael, I'm going to hand

20 you two photographs which our Clerk has marked as

21 Plaintiff's Exhibit Number 4.

22 MR. WOODWORTH: May I approach, Your Honor?

23 THE COURT: Yes.

24 Q. (BY MR. WOODWORTH:) And Plaintiff's Exhibit

25 Number 3 for identification. Can you tell us whether those

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1 two pictures look like Terry looked before she had her

2 collapse?

3 A. Before she had her collapse?

4 Q. Yes.

5 A. Yes.

6 MR. WOODWORTH: Your Honor, I'd like to introduce

7 these as Plaintiff's Exhibits in evidence, if I may..

8 MR. DEACON: May I see them?

9 THE COURT: Surely.

10 MR. DEACON: Did you have them identified when

11 before the collapse it was taken, how many days,

12 approximately?

13 Q. (BY MR. WOODWORTH:) Do you remember the

14 approximate dates?

15 A. The one with the tiger, maybe two years, a year

16 and a half ago, the tiger one.

17 MR. DEACON: A year and a half ago?

18 A. Before. It had to be like '88.

19 Q. (BY MR. WOODWORTH:) What about this one, maybe

20 '87, '86?

21 A. Okay.

22 Q. Is that how she looked before this collapse

23 happened?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Okay.

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26


1 MR. DEACON: I have no objection at all, Judge.

2 THE COURT: It will be marked in evidence.

3 MR. WOODWORTH: May I have a moment, Your Honor?

4 THE COURT: Yes. You have nothing else?

5 MR. WOODWORTH: Just a few questions, Your Honor.

6 THE COURT: I misunderstood. I'm sorry.

7 MR. WOODWORTH: As soon as these are marked, I'd

8 like to publish them to the jury.

9 At this time Your Honor, I am publishing these

10 two photographs to the jury so that they know what

11 Terry looked like just before this happened.

12 MR. DEACON: Could you identify on the back which

13 he said is the one as '88 and one was about '87.

14 Q. The tiger?

15 A. That was '88.

16 Q. Michael, have you started to go to nursing school?

17 A. Yes, I did.

18 Q. Where did you go to nursing school?

19 A. I'm going -- I'm attending St. Pete Junior

20 College.

21 Q. When did you start?

22 A. Approximately a year ago.

23 Q. When do you hope to finish?

24 A. We're looking at something like 1994.

25 Q. Why did you want to learn to be a nurse?

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27


1 A. Because I enjoy it and I want to learn more how

2 to take care of Terry.

3 Q. You're a young man. Your life is ahead of you.

4 Your future is beyond you. Up the road, when you look up

5 the road, what do you see for yourself?

6 A. I see myself hopefully finishing school and taking

7 care of my wife.

8 Q. Where do you want to take care of your wife?

9 A. I want to bring my wife home.

10 Q. If you had the resources available to you, if you

11 had the equipment and the people, would you do that?

12 A. Yes, I would, in a heartbeat.

13 Q. How do you feel about being married to Terry now?

14 A. I feel wonderful. She's my life and I wouldn't

15 trade her for the world. I believe in my -- I believe in my

16 wedding vows.

17 Q. What do you mean? You want to take a minute?

18 A. Yeah.

19 MR. WOODWORTH: If the Court would let us take a

20 minute.

21 Q. (BY MR. WOODWORTH:) You okay?

22 A. Yeah. I'm sorry.

23 Q. Have -- you said you believe in your wedding vows,

24 what do you mean by that?

25 A. I believe in the vows that I took with my wife,

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28


1 through sickness, in health, for richer or poorer. I

2 married my wife because I love her and I want to spend the

3 rest of my life with her. I'm going to do that.

4 MR. WOODWORTH: That's all.

5 THE COURT: Mr. Deacon.

6 MR. DEACON: May it please the Court.

7 Mr. Woodworth, Mr. Fox.

8 CROSS-EXAMINATION

9 BY MR. DEACON:

10 Q. Good morning, Mr. Schiavo.

11 A. Hi. How are you?

12 Q. How you doing?

13 A. Okay.

14 Q. You okay?

15 A. Yeah.

16 Q. You're doing okay?

17 A. Yeah, I'm fine now.

18 Q. Okay. Is everybody doing okay? It's kind of

19 tough. You're very devoted to your wife; is that right?

20 A. Yes, I am.

21 Q. And that's very obvious and you're very much to

22 be commended for that.

23 Your marriage was a short one or your marriage had been

24 a short one before this incident happened to her?

25 A. My marriage --

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29


1 Q. Up to this incident happening, you hadn't been

2 married very long is what I meant.

3 A. We've been married five years.

4 Q. During that time, up to this time that that had

5 happened, that this incident happened to her, your marriage

6 was a happy one, was it not?

7 A. It was very happy.

8 Q. Since this incident happened, and it happened on

9 February 25, 1990, has her condition, in your observation,

10 from your observation, changed appreciably?

11 A. What condition you talking about?

12 Q. I'm talking about the fact you found her after her

13 heart attack on the floor about 5:00 in the morning on a

14 Sunday morning; is that right?

15 A. Correct.

16 Q. And the paramedics came and they resuscitated her

17 and took her to Humana Hospital; is that correct?

18 A. Correct.

19 Q. And from that time that she got to Humana Hospital

20 until today when we saw her on film, has her condition

21 changed appreciably?

22 A. No. She opens her eyes.

23 Q. She opens her eyes and she's off the ventilator?

24 A. Uh-huh.

25 Q. Let me take you back, if I can, to Pennsylvania

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30


1 and the time that you lived there. One thing we established

2 at your deposition was the fact that you're not very good

3 with dates.

4 A. That's correct.

5 Q. That's correct. Okay. We've now established what

6 was the date of your marriage?

7 A. We were married November 10, 1984.

8 Q. All right. And you came to Florida when?

9 A. In April of '86.

10 Q. Okay. You had some different dates but that's --

11 you established that as being the date; is that correct?

12 A. Yes, we did.

13 Q. Okay. All right. When you were in Pennsylvania,

14 did your wife see a doctor for any reason?

15 A. When in Pennsylvania, before we were married?

16 Q. I am sorry; after you were married?

17 A. After we were married?

18 Q. Yes, sir.

19 A. To my recollection, no.

20 Q. Wasn't there a time in Pennsylvania where she went

21 to see Dr. Mambu thinking she was pregnant?

22 A. Yes. Yes, she did. Yes.

23 Q. And that was sometime in 1985, April of '85, May

24 of '85?

25 A. A few months into our marriage.

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31


1 Q. After you were married a few months your wife

2 thought she was pregnant, she went to see the doctor and

3 found out she was, in fact, not pregnant; is that correct?

4 A. Correct.

5 Q. Were you trying to get pregnant at that time or

6 was it just one of those things?

7 A. No, one of those things. We weren't planning on

8 getting pregnant that early.

9 Q. You found out -- why was it that she thought she

10 was pregnant?

11 A. Because evidently she missed a period.

12 Q. She went to the doctor in April and in May of

13 that year, do you recall?

14 A. April and May of which year?

15 Q. If Dr. Mambu's records reflect that --

16 A. Of which year you talking about?

17 A. 1985.

18 A. I recall her going to the doctor to see if she was

19 pregnant and that's all I remember about that.

20 Q. From the time you were married in November of '84

21 until she went to see the doctor in April of '85, was her

22 weight fairly stable?

23 A. In '84?

24 Q. '85.

25 A. It fluctuated a few pounds.

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32


1 Q. A couple pounds?

2 A. A couple pounds.

3 Q. It was relatively stable?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. At that time I think we can describe her weight as

6 fairly mid-weight, between the two weights she had?

7 A. That I can't recall.

8 Q. I think she was 145?

9 A. When we got married.

10 Q. When you got married and stayed that weight until

11 you came down to Florida?

12 A. Correct.

13 Q. And then when you came to Florida in April of '86

14 she lost more weight, went down to 120's and so, is that

15 right even more?

16 A. I believe so, yes.

17 Q. All right. And that was in '86, was it not?

18 A. I don't remember the years.

19 Q. Okay. I think --

20 A. I don't remember every one of her weights..

21 Q. All right. You got some pictures there and you

22 put some dates on them. Are those pretty much approximate

23 dates?

24 A. Guesstimate. I am not good with dates. We've

25 already established that.

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33


1 Q. We established that, sure. And but sometime

2 around '86 or so she lost about another 20 pounds; is that

3 about right?

4 A. I don't recall that, no.

5 Q. We have a picture of her.

6 A. I think I stated --

7 Q. That you've estimated to be around 1987 and shows

8 her in shorts with a teddybear or a chipmunk, I guess it is,

9 at a theme park or something?

10 A. Disney World

11 Q. Is that pretty much the way she looked in 1987;

12 is that correct?

13 A. IF the date I gave is correct.

14 Q. Did she continue to look like that in '87, '88,

15 '89 up to the time that she had her heart attack in 1990?

16 A. No, she fluctuated weight.

17 Q. More than a few pounds?

18 A. Between, I'd say, 20, 25 pounds up and down.

19 Q. Okay. When she saw Dr. Prawer in 1987, I think

20 the records will show she weighed about 120, 119 pounds?

21 A. That's what his records show.

22 Q. In 1989 when she saw Dr. Igel, she weighed 121.

23 Those records, you were here when he went through those

24 records?

25 A. Yes.

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34


1 Q. And then in 1990 in February she weighed 124.

2 Your wife, all during your marriage, had an intolerance to

3 certain foods, did she not?

4 A. All during what?

5 Q. I mean during your married life she had an

6 intolerance to certain types of foods?

7 A. I found that our before we -- after we came to

8 Florida.

9 Q. There was a couple types of food she wouldn't eat

10 without getting sick?

11 A. Correct.

12 Q. Those were lettuce, salads?

13 A. Roughage, lettuce, dairy product.

14 Q. Ice cream, milk, creams?

15 A. Dairy products.

16 Q. How would that effect her if she'd eat those

17 foods?

18 A. She'd get real gassy, get diarrhea.

19 Q. You mentioned the fact that she drank a lot of

20 iced tea after she came to Florida; is that correct?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. About a gallon a day?

23 A. Estimating a gallon a day.

24 Q. Did she drink a lot of iced tea before she came to

25 Florida that --

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34


1 A. Not that I recall.

2 Q. In addition to iced tea, did she drink a lot of

3 liquids?

4 A. I noticed one time she drank a lot of Coke.

5 Q. Coca-Cola?

6 A. Yeah.

7 Q. Now, did you ever have any inclination at all that

8 your wife may have had some type of eating disorder?

9 A. I had no inclination at all, absolutely none.

10 Q. And you saw her everyday?

11 A. I didn't see her everyday.

12 Q. Well, you worked, I understand different shifts,

13 you worked nights and she worked days?

14 A. Correct.

15 Q. You worked from 10:00 to 12:00 and she worked

16 like 7:00 to 3:30; is that correct?

17 A. I worked 10:00 in the morning to 10:00 or 11:00 at

18 night.

19 Q. Right. And she worked during the day?

20 A. During the morning hours, yes.

21 Q. There were times, though, you had sometimes off;

22 is that correct?

23 A. My time off was basically Sunday.

24 Q. All right. And but you slept with her at night?

25 A. Right.

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36


1 Q. And you saw her in the mornings?

2 A. No, I didn't see her in the mornings.

3 Q. Okay. She left before you got up?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. You saw her on weekends?

6 A. I seen on --

7 Q. Sundays?

8 A. Sundays, and a couple hours before I left for

9 work on Saturday.

10 Q. You've had various jobs while you're here in

11 Florida, did you not?

12 A. Yes, I did.

13 Q. But most of them required you working at night?

14 A. Yes, most of them. All did, yes.

15 Q. And there was nothing about her appearance or

16 anything about her which in any way, shape or form gave you

17 any inclination that she had an eating disorder?

18 A. Nothing, no. No, none whatsoever.

19 Q. Nothing at all. This huge omlette she made on

20 Sunday and she ate all of it --

21 A. Every last bit of it.

22 Q. -- what would she do after she ate it?

23 A. She'd read the newspaper.

24 Q. Okay. Did she ever go to the bathroom after

25 eating large amounts of food like that?

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37


1 A. Not right away, no.

2 Q. Did you ever notice any suspicious bathroom

3 activity on her part?

4 A. One time, yes.

5 Q. What was that?

6 A. We had just finished dinner, she said she was

7 going to go to the bathroom, she got up and went into the

8 bathroom and it was a chilly month and she closed the door

9 and was doing her business and she turned the water on. So,

10 I went up to the door, I said, Terry, what are you doing

11 with the water on, she said it's freezing in here, I'm

12 warming up. And Terry was always a chilly person. In the

13 summertime she wore blankets on the bed. And that's the

14 time I ever noticed about that and had no inclination and

15 never paid any attention to it at all.

16 Q. Other than that, you had no inclination at all she

17 might have had anything out of the ordinary?

18 A. No, sir.

19 Q. Other than omlettes on Sunday, would she eat

20 normally?

21 A. Ate normally in front of me, yes.

22 Q. Ate normal meals. You never had to say anything

23 to her to encourage her to eat balanced meals?

24 A. No, I never had to encourage her, no.

25 Q. Okay. You never thought other than this omlette

___
38


1 that she had erratic eating habits?

2 A. I thought she had peculiar eating habits, nothing

3 I had to pay attention to. I mean the girl was hungry, I

4 let her eat the omlette.

5 Q. Okay. Ate a big omlette.

6 Did you take trips during the time you were here in

7 Florida, go on vacations?

8 A. Very, very rarely. Due to my work.

9 Q. Okay. If you did take a trip, you mentioned very

10 rare, where would you go?

11 A. I think one time we went to Disney World for the

12 day.

13 Q. Okay. Did she eat normally there?

14 A. Yes, she did.

15 Q. Okay. How long were you there, how many days?

16 A. Just for the day.

17 Q. All right. Any other trips that you can think

18 about?

19 A. No.

20 Q. And she had no suspicious behavior?

21 A. None whatsoever, sir.

22 Q. Other than drinking a gallon of iced tea and a

23 bunch of Cokes?

24 A. That's all I noticed.

25 Q. During that time when you were in Florida, was

___
39


1 Terry seeing another physician other than Dr. Igel?

2 A. She was seeing Dr. Prawer.

3 Q. Dr. Prawer was the family doctor?

4 A. He was, yes.

5 Q. And he saw Terry '87, '88, '89, I think?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. For various minor --

8 A. Various -- I wouldn't say they were minor.

9 Q. Pardon?

10 A. I wouldn't say minor.

11 Q. What kind of things did she see Dr. Prawer for?

12 A. She had a lump on her breast.

13 Q. Outside lump, not an inside one?

14 A. Yeah, but it was still a lump. She had some warts

15 on her toe and she went to see him for light-headedness and

16 dizziness.

17 Q. Okay.

18 A. And I believe irregular period.

19 Q. All right. You were also seeing Dr. Prawer, were

20 you not?

21 A. Yes, I was.

22 Q. In addition to being Terry's doctor, he was also

23 your doctor?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And what kind of things did you see him for?

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40


1 MR. WOODWORTH: Your Honor, I object to those

2 kinds of things. Mr. Schiavo's health is not an

3 issue here.

4 MR. DEACON: He's right, I was just making --

5 THE COURT: Okay.

6 Q. How often did you see Dr. Prawer?

7 A. Myself?

8 Q. Yes.

9 A. Not very often.

10 Q. Did you ever have any conversations with

11 Dr. Prawer about your wife's consumption of fluids?

12 A. I don't recall any conversations with him..

13 Q. So we can assume you didn't notice any irregular

14 eating habits on your wife that you didn't talk to

15 Dr. Prawer about that she ate?

16 A. Can you rephrase that?

17 Q. Did you talk to Dr. Prawer about how she ate?

18 A. Not that I can recall, no. I don't think I

19 mentioned it. I didn't think I needed to.

20 Q. I didn't say you did, I just asked you if you did.

21 A. Okay.

22 Q. Okay. Other than this huge omlette or the pizza

23 you mentioned, would she eat normally on Sunday?

24 A. We'd have a regular dinner, yeah. Sometime we'd

25 stop for lunch somewhere.

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41


1 Q. Did your wife have any allergies?

2 A. Yes, she did.

3 Q. And what was that

4 A. She was allergic to Benadryl.

5 Q. Was she taking any medication?

6 MR. WOODWORTH: Excuse me, Your Honor, I object

7 to that. I thought -- I thought we covered this

8 territory, it's not relevant here.

9 THE COURT: Mr. Deacon, you want to be heard?

10 MR. DEACON: No, sir. I'm going through my notes.

11 THE COURT: I'm going to sustain.

12 Q. (BY MR. DEACON:) We have some photos of your

13 wife. When was the last time you saw her before her

14 collapse on February 25, 1990?

15 A. The last time I saw her?

16 Q. yes, sir.

17 A. The 24th.

18 Q. What time of day did you see her on the 24th?

19 A. Late at night.

20 Q. Okay. Would that be when you got off work?

21 A. It was a Saturday night, so probably 11:30, 12:00

22 by the time I got home.

23 Q. Where were you working at that time?

24 A. Agastino's Restaurant.

25 Q. What time did they close the restaurant?

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42


1 A. Stopped serving 10:00, and if people were walking

2 in a quarter to ten, they serve them.

3 Q. You recall approximately what time you got home

4 that evening?

5 A. 11:30, 12:00.

6 Q. Your wife up?

7 A. I don't recall if she was up or not.

8 Q. Do you recall whether or not you had any

9 conversation with her that night?

10 A. I might have. I don't remember the conversation.

11 Q. Okay. Would it be fair to assume that you don't

12 recall anything out of the ordinary happening as far as your

13 wife, her condition or anything about her that evening?

14 A. Nothing out of the ordinary, no.

15 Q. She seemed fine to you; is that correct?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. When was the last time you saw her before you

18 went to bed that night, in other words, when you, after you

19 got off from Agastino's?

20 A. The last time I saw her? Rephrase that question.

21 Q. That was a Saturday, was it, not the 24th?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. So, she did not work; is that correct?

24 A. No, she didn't.

25 Q. What time did you get up to go to work?

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43


1 A. Being it was a Saturday, Friday night I probably

2 got home late, I usually don't get up until 10:00, 10:30.

3 Q. Okay. Do you recall whether or not she was there

4 when you got up?

5 A. No, she usually did her food shopping when I was

6 sleeping.

7 Q. You don't recall seeing her that morning?

8 A. Not that early.

9 Q. All right. Up to the time of her collapse, what

10 was her condition as far as you can observe?

11 A. What do you mean by condition?

12 Q. Did she seem healthy, the same old Terry?

13 A. She seemed like my wife.

14 Q. Okay. Well, you know, did she seem healthy is

15 actually my question?

16 A. To me, yeah.

17 Q. Okay. I'm sorry, have you ever spoken with

18 Dr. Igel at all during the time Terry was seeing him?

19 A. No, I've never spoke to Dr. Igel.

20 Q. How would you describe your wife as far as her

21 activities, what kind of things would she like to do for

22 recreation and enjoyment?

23 A. Terry liked to spend time with her friends,

24 girlfriends, enjoyed arts and crafts, she liked being

25 outdoors.

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44


1 Q. In one picture you have of her, I think the '87

2 one, she's in shorts or athletic shorts. Was she an

3 athletic kind of person?

4 A. No.

5 Q. Did she exercise regularly?

6 A. No.

7 Q. Did she play any sports?

8 A. Terry didn't know what sports was.

9 Q. Did she do any kind of, go to the spa or

10 gymnastics or aerobics or anything like that?

11 A. No.

12 Q. Not at all. After she lost this weight in '86

13 or so, how did she feel about herself?

14 A. Terry felt great about herself.

15 Q. She like being thin?

16 A. yes, she did.

17 Q. Did she ever make any comments to you about liking

18 being thin?

19 A. No, she didn't make a comment. Just by seeing her

20 I can see she liked it.

21 Q. What was it that gave you that impression?

22 A. Just her overall being. First time she wore a

23 bikini.

24 Q. Okay. You used to go to the beach with her, you,

25 her, her mother? She liked her bikini and she liked to go

___
45


1 to the beach?

2 A. Yeah, she did. I was working.

3 Q. It's fair to say she was proud of her figure?

4 A. Yeah, she was proud of her figure, yes.

5 MR. DEACON: Thank you, sir.

6 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

7 MR. DEACON: That's all I have.

8 THE COURT: Any redirect?

9 MR. WOODWORTH: Just a couple.

10 THE COURT: Okay.

11 REDIRECT EXAMINATION

12 BY MR. WOODWORTH:

13 Q. Michael, you've heard some testimony and some

14 references to the fact that throughout the course of the

15 proceedings that some of the people who worked with Terry,

16 one or two of them, noted that she went to the bathroom

17 after lunch everyday?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Did you ever take particular note of that while

20 your were married, while Terry and you were living together?

21 A. Of her going to the bathroom?

22 Q. After meals regularly?

23 A. Never took any particular note.

24 A. All right. Did you ever suspect in any way, even

25 to the slightest degree that Terry's irregularity, menstrual

___
46


1 irregularity that she went to see Dr. Prawer for -- strike

2 that -- that she went to see Dr. Igel for had anything

3 whatsoever to do with the way she ate?

4 MR. DEACON: Excuse me, Judge, I'll object to

5 that.

6 MR. WOODWORTH: Or didn't eat.

7 MR. DEACON: He's asking for a medical opinion

8 from this particular witness.

9 THE COURT: He asked if he suspected.

10 MR. DEACON: Her irregularity and menstruation

11 habits were connected.

12 MR. WOODWORTH: I'm sorry, what's the objection?

13 MR. DEACON: The objection is asking for a medical

14 opinion from this witness.

15 MR. WOODWORTH: Wait a minute, Your Honor.

16 THE COURT: No speeches. Overrule the objection.

17 Q. (BY MR. WOODWORTH:) Did you ever have the

18 slightest hint from any source whatsoever that there might

19 be any kind of a connection between what Terry was or wasn't

20 eating or her eating habits, peculiar or not, and her

21 menstrual irregularity?

22 A. I had no clue at all.

23 Q. Did Dr. Igel or any of Dr. Igel's nurses,

24 personnel ever, to your knowledge, call Terry and tell her

25 that there might be a connection?

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47


1 A. No.

2 Q. Or you?

3 A. No.

4 Q. That there might be a connection?

5 A. No.

6 Q. There is, in the Humana Northside, is that right,

7 the hospital where she was taken right after her collapse,

8 some records indicating that for a couple weeks somebody in

9 the family said she wasn't feeling so hot or wasn't feeling

10 too good, do you have any recollection of her not feeling

11 too good for a couple weeks before this happened?

12 A. The recollection I had was she had a real bad

13 vaginal infection.

14 MR. WOODWORTH: Okay. Thanks.

15 THE COURT: Anything else, Mr. Deacon?

16 MR. DEACON: Oh, no, sir.

17 THE COURT: Thank you..

18 MR. WOODWORTH: That's all, Your Honor.

19 May we have a moment?

20

21 (THEREUPON, THE PORTION ORDERED TO BE TRANSCRIBED WAS

22 CONCLUDED.)

23 * * * * * * *

24

25

___
48


1 STATE OF FLORIDA)

2 COUNTY OF PINELLAS)

3 I, JOANNE GERBINO, Court Reporter in and for the Sixth

4 Judicial Circuit of the State of Florida.

5 DO HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings were

6 had at the time and place set forth in the caption thereof;

7 that I was authorized to and did stenographically report the

8 said proceedings, and that the foregoing pages, numbered 1

9 through 48, inclusive, constitute a true and correct

10 transcription of my said stenographic report.

11 IN WITNESS WHEREOF I have hereunto affixed my official

12 signature this 29th day of March, 1999, at Clearwater,

13 Pinellas County, Florida.

14

15
<signed>
16 ------------------------------
JOANNE GERBINO
17 Court Reporter,
Sixth Judicial Circuit,
18 State of Florida.

19

20

21

22

23

24

25