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#826 From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:10 pm
Subject: OT: Thought you were anonymous online? 		ledheadlydia
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Think again. Check out this reverse email lookup:
http://www.spokeo.com/single?g=sise_su_bu

It found TONS of stuff using my email addresss, including stuff I'd forgotten about!

--
Lydia Glider-Shelley
Broward County Special Needs Parents Examiner
www.examiner.com
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
WE CAN DO THIS
http://www.nopom.info
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
Hear the REAL Voices of Autism:
www.iamautism.org
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
~~Mahatma Gandhi

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (4)
#825 From: larry Lyons <larryd552002@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:24 pm
Subject: Re: Mentally disabled actors are victims of modern 'blacking-up', says campaigner: As TV gives more roles for physically disabled, Asperger's actress's mother demands equal treatment 		larryd552002
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"Neurological Impairments."  How politically correct!
 
Anyway, here is the latest movie featuring a non-autistic actor playing an old father with Asperger's Syndrome.  He shows up about half-way through the trailer:
 
 
Yours,
               Larry


--- On Mon, 11/16/09, Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...> wrote:

From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Subject: [for-and-by-autistics] Mentally disabled actors are victims of modern 'blacking-up', says campaigner: As TV gives more roles for physically disabled, Asperger's actress's mother demands equal treatment
To: "Lydia Shelley" <rainbow.websites@...>
Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 6:11 AM

 
Good for her! Nothing about us without us! This has been bugging me for a while. I'm behind Ms. Clark 100%

Mentally disabled actors are victims of modern 'blacking-up', says campaigner

As TV gives more roles for physically disabled, Asperger's actress's mother demands equal treatment

The mother of the first actress with Asperger's syndrome to play a fictional character with the condition has launched a campaign to stop actors "playing disabled".

Lizzy Clark was 14 when the BBC asked her to play the part of Poppy, a teenage girl with Asperger's, in the television film Dustbin Baby, starring Dakota Blue Richards and Juliet Stevenson. Based on Jacqueline Wilson's novel of the same name, the film has been shortlisted for an International Emmy, a British Academy children's award and the Bafta Kids' Vote awards. The award ceremonies will take place next week.

Lizzy's mother, Nicola Clark, has said that employing actors who are not mentally disabled to play characters with neurological impairments should stop. It is the "blacking-up of the 21st century", she said. "We need to break down these barriers. They're unacceptable and indefensible in a modern-day society, especially when there are so many good, disabled actors who are both ready, eager and able to take on these parts."

Lizzy, who had never acted professionally before her part in Dustbin Baby, said: "My Asperger's made some things on the film set difficult at first, like dealing with the sudden noise of the storyboard, but I was soon so focused on acting that I didn't notice anything else.

"It is not just mentally disabled actors who lose out when non-disabled people are employed to act them. Audiences think they are getting an authentic portrayal of a mentally disabled person, but they're not. It's not like putting on a different accent or learning what it was like to be raised in a different era. You can't understand what it is like to have a mentaldisability unless you've really lived with it. When non-disabled people try to portray us, they tend to fall back on stereotypes that have done our community so much harm in the past."

According to Independent Television Commission research, 79% of viewers would not mind if a disabled person read the evening news. Six in 10 say that disabled people should appear in a wider variety of roles, including as presenters. There are, however, signs that the tide is slowly turning in favour of Clark's "Don't play me – pay me!" campaign.EastEnders recently introduced David Proud, who was born with spina bifida, as Adam Best, the first character in the show to use a wheelchair in real life.

The move is part of a series of measures by the BBC intended to raise the profile of disabled actors and performers. Next week it will start a nationwide search for disabled actors and performers for drama, comedy and children's shows. It will also launch an online directory of disabled talent, with the support of the acting union Equity and Spotlight, the casting directory. "Innovations like this are promising, but I would question whether disabled actors will be used in greater numbers simply because their contact details have been made easier for directors and producers to find," said Clark. "Society regards people with mental disabilities with such extreme stigma, and attributes them with such insulting and misleading stereotypes, that most casting directors would not even consider employing someone with a mental disability."

Clark is setting up a forum for all mentally disabled actors, where they can be encouraged and supported. The forum will also generate publicity through public events and debates.

In another sign that Clark has launched her campaign at a turning point, Channel 4 will next week launch Cast Offs, a comedy drama about the making of a Survivor-type reality TV programme featuring physically disabled characters. Created by Jack Thorne, who has written forShameless and Skins, Tony Roche, who has written for The Thick Of It, and Alex Bulmer, the programme features thalidomide victims, dwarfism and the face-disfiguring cherubism, a rare genetic disorder.

Clark wants to see a similar commitment to how mental disability is portrayed. "At the moment mentally disabled actors only appear on our screens in plot lines revolving entirely around their disability, and generally only in scenarios where they need to be rescued from something to do with their disability by a non-disabled protagonist… We want to see disabled actors playing parts where the least interesting thing about them is their disability."

Clark expects a long battle. She points to the decision by the British Board of Film Classification to warn viewers that the comedy Special People featured disabled people. "Giving the film a 'disability theme', as though we have to be warned away from disabled people, was bizarre," said the film's director, Justin Edgar.



Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (2)
#824 From: larry Lyons <larryd552002@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:17 pm
Subject: Re: Scary article from Boston Herald 		larryd552002
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Hi Lydia,
I didn't think of that.  At the time, the only classical beautiful male that came to mind was Absalom.  Maybe I should have called him Apollo.  Regardless, you sure do bear a brain! 
 
And I want to thank you for inviting people to join the fun.
 
Yours,
           Larry 

--- On Mon, 11/16/09, Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...> wrote:

From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Subject: Re: [for-and-by-autistics] Scary article from Boston Herald
To: for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 6:08 AM

 
Larry,

I couldn't agree more. Absalom? Beloved child of David. How ironic the bestial boy you encountered would be named after one who avenged the rape of his sister by their brother...

,

 
 
 



 









--
Lydia Glider-Shelley
Broward County Special Needs Parents Examiner
www.examiner. com
<3  <3  <3  <3  <3  <3  <3
WE CAN DO THIS
http://www.nopom. info
<3  <3  <3  <3  <3  <3  <3
Hear the REAL Voices of Autism:
www.iamautism. org
<3  <3  <3  <3  <3  <3  <3
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
~~Mahatma Gandhi


Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (10)
#823 From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:51 pm
Subject: Online Research Study of Adults ages 18-30 with Asperger's/HFA 		ledheadlydia
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Send Email Send Email
 
Online Research Study of Adults ages 18-30 with Asperger's/HFA - Fordham University Psychology Department


If you are diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome or High Functioning Autism and are between the ages of 18 and 30, you are eligible to participate in a web-based survey. The purpose is to study self-concept in young adults with Asperger's Syndrome/HFA. The study is accessed ONLINE, can be done from any computer, and is completely confidential. If you have started the study before and did not complete it, you can participate again. If you or someone you know is interested in taking the survey, please e-mail me at schatten@...<mailto:schatten@...>. Thank you for your participation.
Heather Schatten, M.A.



Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)
#822 From: Alexander Cheezem <CheezeA@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:40 pm
Subject: Re: Scary article from Boston Herald 		alehbert
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Lydia and Larry,
Where to start...
Yes, as Lydia mentioned, I perseverate on research. Specifically, I perseverate on the scientific study of human nature (e.g. psychology, cultural anthropology, small-scale sociology). I also read medical articles for fun, although a lot of the reading I've been doing as of late has been related to quackery.
I really wish I didn't need to know how to spot the rashes caused by hypervitaminosis C, but I work with autistic kids (when I have a job, anyway -- supervision is taking forever to set up for my next one), and Mommy's pet quack is inevitably an issue. I swear -- it's only a matter of time until I get a kid who's on Lupron.
I'd much rather be reading methodology pieces...
Anyway, enough of that little aside. I'm a twenty-seven-year-old autistic (Aspie by formal diagnosis, but I don't care) clinician who's presently applying to clinical psychology Ph.D. programs. I'm about 250 hours of supervision away from being able to take the BCaBA exam, and about 750 and a Master's away from being able to take the BCBA exam. On the other hand, I'm also an outspoken critic of ABA in general, and especially of the EIBI programs.
Sorry for the acronym soup. :-)
-- Alexander Cheezem
On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...> wrote:


Larry,

I couldn't agree more. Absalom? Beloved child of David. How ironic the bestial boy you encountered would be named after one who avenged the rape of his sister by their brother...

I invited Alex to join, Larry. He is active in ASAN as well as being local (I know him in person) here in South Florida.

Alex is brilliant, straightforward and perseverates on research... especially psychiatric stuff.

Okay. That's the nutshell version. Alex can do a much better job of introducing himself.

Egad! I have to keep retyping words because my fingers don't want to behave today.

~Lyd


On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 9:24 PM, larry Lyons <larryd552002@...> wrote:

Hi Alexander,
The authorities are bullies themselves in spite of their solemn and righteous airs. Filthy swine.
I too was bullied in school. I still have a graphite tattoo on my elbow where some jerk stabbed me with a pencil when I was thirteen. I'm an adult now though.
One day one of my customers (Im a self-employed gardener) had a beautiful eleven-year-old son. This guy was beautiful--goddamned Absalom, and his mother loved him to distraction. One day he was home alone while I was working in the yard. When I went to mow the back, I caught him beating up on a little autistic neighbor kid, smiling a laughing all the while punching the boy as he was curled up in the fetal position. I shouted at him: Hey Absalom. Leave that kid alone or I will put blemishes on you!
Later his mother called me at home saying Dont you ever talk to my son in that tone of voice as long as you live! Do you understand me! I told her to fuck off.
This evil bitch was a professional clinical psychologist, all wise and erudite using professorial diction, and yet so incredibly stupid. It was almost comical. I thought of her as a female Navin Johnson.
Anyway, she represents everything I have hated all my life. These assholes would still bully me if they could get away with it, but I am invulnerable to that shit anymore. I am my own boss; literally as well as figuratively.
Yours,
Larry
P.S: Im glad you joined the group. If you dont mind me asking, how did you find it? Most of the people here know me from Aspergers Circle.


--- On Sun, 11/15/09, Alexander Cheezem <CheezeA@...> wrote
From: Alexander Cheezem <CheezeA@...>
Subject: Re: [for-and-by-autistics] Scary article from Boston Herald
To: for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 3:40 PM


I don't have time to fully respond, so I'm going to echo myself from another message with abrief explanation.
I recently was asked about my own school experiences by the father of a bullied autistic child. The following is from my response:
"I went through Junior High at a public school in South Carolina. Other than some timing issues (shortly after I started, they switched from a 7th to 9th program to a 6h to 8th, meaning that my "junior high" experience was only 7th and 8th grades) and the constant bullying and ostracism, it was fairly unremarkable -- on an official level. I place these caveats there because the bullying was truly out of hand; I once counted more than 80 instances of bullying (although I didn't think of it that way at the time) in the five minute period between two classes. As I have issues remembering names, this gave the teachers a convenient excuse for ignoring the matter, and they categorically refused to do anything about it.

"After I completed the 8th grade, my family moved back to Florida, and I had hoped that my nightmare would be behind me. Unfortunately, this wasn't the case.

"My first high school was an elite private school near my house. I was eventually asked to leave due to fact that my being bullied was disrupting classes (the bullying had extended into class time). Subsequent to this, I went to a boarding "school" where I was pretty horribly abused by staff (I came out with a case of PTSD and a need for knee surgery). I then went to a more normal private boarding school, before again being asked to leave due to bullies' actions against me (we pressed assault charges against another student after he broke my collarbone, and the school decided I was a legal liability). Following this, I went to my local public school for a while, before we tried to find a more suitable placement. The pattern repeated itself at a special ed private boarding school (where I was both abused by staff and bullied, and again asked to leave) and I again went back to my local public school. Following more altercations with bullies, I was placed in a program for the emotionally handicapped which shared its dining facilities with the mental word of a major psychiatric hospital. While I wasn't actively abused there, the academics were effectively nonexistent. I again went back to my local public school, and eventually graduated with a mix of honors, AP, and special education (read: even more worthless than usual) classes.

"I'm probably missing a school or two in there. Due to concurrent psychiatric interventions, my memories of that period are fairly fuzzy. Suffice it to say, however, that I know what being bullied is like.

"I've also left out a very great deal in my account. Not everyone I knew back then was a bully, and I had some friends. Of course, some friends were actually friends, and some were... err... "friends", if you get my meaning."
There was more, but that's about as much as I can quote without disclosing details about the other person in the exchange's situation.
Suffice it to say that the article was completely unsurprising to me.
-- Alexander Cheezem












--
Lydia Glider-Shelley
Broward County Special Needs Parents Examiner
www.examiner.com
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
WE CAN DO THIS
http://www.nopom.info
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
Hear the REAL Voices of Autism:
www.iamautism.org
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
~~Mahatma Gandhi




Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (10)
#821 From: Alexander Cheezem <CheezeA@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:25 pm
Subject: Re: Scary article from Boston Herald 		alehbert
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Larry,
Regarding how I found the group, Lydia is a friend of mine.
-- Alexander Cheezem
On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 9:24 PM, larry Lyons <larryd552002@...> wrote:


Hi Alexander,
The authorities are bullies themselves in spite of their solemn and righteous airs. Filthy swine.
I too was bullied in school. I still have a graphite tattoo on my elbow where some jerk stabbed me with a pencil when I was thirteen. I'm an adult now though.
One day one of my customers (Im a self-employed gardener) had a beautiful eleven-year-old son. This guy was beautiful--goddamned Absalom, and his mother loved him to distraction. One day he was home alone while I was working in the yard. When I went to mow the back, I caught him beating up on a little autistic neighbor kid, smiling a laughing all the while punching the boy as he was curled up in the fetal position. I shouted at him: Hey Absalom. Leave that kid alone or I will put blemishes on you!
Later his mother called me at home saying Dont you ever talk to my son in that tone of voice as long as you live! Do you understand me! I told her to fuck off.
This evil bitch was a professional clinical psychologist, all wise and erudite using professorial diction, and yet so incredibly stupid. It was almost comical. I thought of her as a female Navin Johnson.
Anyway, she represents everything I have hated all my life. These assholes would still bully me if they could get away with it, but I am invulnerable to that shit anymore. I am my own boss; literally as well as figuratively.
Yours,
Larry
P.S: Im glad you joined the group. If you dont mind me asking, how did you find it? Most of the people here know me from Aspergers Circle.


--- On Sun, 11/15/09, Alexander Cheezem <CheezeA@...> wrote
From: Alexander Cheezem <CheezeA@...>
Subject: Re: [for-and-by-autistics] Scary article from Boston Herald
To: for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 3:40 PM


I don't have time to fully respond, so I'm going to echo myself from another message with abrief explanation.
I recently was asked about my own school experiences by the father of a bullied autistic child. The following is from my response:
"I went through Junior High at a public school in South Carolina. Other than some timing issues (shortly after I started, they switched from a 7th to 9th program to a 6h to 8th, meaning that my "junior high" experience was only 7th and 8th grades) and the constant bullying and ostracism, it was fairly unremarkable -- on an official level. I place these caveats there because the bullying was truly out of hand; I once counted more than 80 instances of bullying (although I didn't think of it that way at the time) in the five minute period between two classes. As I have issues remembering names, this gave the teachers a convenient excuse for ignoring the matter, and they categorically refused to do anything about it.

"After I completed the 8th grade, my family moved back to Florida, and I had hoped that my nightmare would be behind me. Unfortunately, this wasn't the case.

"My first high school was an elite private school near my house. I was eventually asked to leave due to fact that my being bullied was disrupting classes (the bullying had extended into class time). Subsequent to this, I went to a boarding "school" where I was pretty horribly abused by staff (I came out with a case of PTSD and a need for knee surgery). I then went to a more normal private boarding school, before again being asked to leave due to bullies' actions against me (we pressed assault charges against another student after he broke my collarbone, and the school decided I was a legal liability). Following this, I went to my local public school for a while, before we tried to find a more suitable placement. The pattern repeated itself at a special ed private boarding school (where I was both abused by staff and bullied, and again asked to leave) and I again went back to my local public school. Following more altercations with bullies, I was placed in a program for the emotionally handicapped which shared its dining facilities with the mental word of a major psychiatric hospital. While I wasn't actively abused there, the academics were effectively nonexistent. I again went back to my local public school, and eventually graduated with a mix of honors, AP, and special education (read: even more worthless than usual) classes.

"I'm probably missing a school or two in there. Due to concurrent psychiatric interventions, my memories of that period are fairly fuzzy. Suffice it to say, however, that I know what being bullied is like.

"I've also left out a very great deal in my account. Not everyone I knew back then was a bully, and I had some friends. Of course, some friends were actually friends, and some were... err... "friends", if you get my meaning."
There was more, but that's about as much as I can quote without disclosing details about the other person in the exchange's situation.
Suffice it to say that the article was completely unsurprising to me.
-- Alexander Cheezem













Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (10)
#820 From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:11 pm
Subject: Mentally disabled actors are victims of modern 'blacking-up', says campaigner: As TV gives more roles for physically disabled, Asperger's actress's mother demands equal treatment 		ledheadlydia
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Good for her! Nothing about us without us! This has been bugging me for a while. I'm behind Ms. Clark 100%

Mentally disabled actors are victims of modern 'blacking-up', says campaigner

As TV gives more roles for physically disabled, Asperger's actress's mother demands equal treatment

The mother of the first actress with Asperger's syndrome to play a fictional character with the condition has launched a campaign to stop actors "playing disabled".

Lizzy Clark was 14 when theBBCasked her to play the part of Poppy, a teenage girl with Asperger's, in the television filmDustbin Baby, starring Dakota Blue Richards and Juliet Stevenson. Based on Jacqueline Wilson's novel of the same name, the film has been shortlisted for an International Emmy, a British Academy children's award and the Bafta Kids' Vote awards. The award ceremonies will take place next week.

Lizzy's mother, Nicola Clark, has said that employing actors who are not mentally disabled to play characters with neurological impairments should stop. It is the "blacking-up of the 21st century", she said. "We need to break down these barriers. They're unacceptable and indefensible in a modern-day society, especially when there are so many good, disabled actors who are both ready, eager and able to take on these parts."

Lizzy, who had never acted professionally before her part inDustbin Baby, said: "My Asperger's made some things on the film set difficult at first, like dealing with the sudden noise of the storyboard, but I was soon so focused on acting that I didn't notice anything else.

"It is not just mentally disabled actors who lose out when non-disabled people are employed to act them. Audiences think they are getting an authentic portrayal of a mentally disabled person, but they're not. It's not like putting on a different accent or learning what it was like to be raised in a different era. You can't understand what it is like to have a mentaldisabilityunless you've really lived with it. When non-disabled people try to portray us, they tend to fall back on stereotypes that have done our community so much harm in the past."

According to Independent Television Commission research, 79% of viewers would not mind if a disabled person read the evening news. Six in 10 say that disabled people should appear in a wider variety of roles, including as presenters. There are, however, signs that the tide is slowly turning in favour of Clark's "Don't play me pay me!" campaign.EastEndersrecently introduced David Proud, who was born with spina bifida, as Adam Best, the first character in the show to use a wheelchair in real life.

The move is part of a series of measures by the BBC intended to raise the profile of disabled actors and performers. Next week it will start a nationwide search for disabled actors and performers for drama, comedy and children's shows. It will also launch an online directory of disabled talent, with the support of the acting union Equity and Spotlight, the casting directory. "Innovations like this are promising, but I would question whether disabled actors will be used in greater numbers simply because their contact details have been made easier for directors and producers to find," said Clark."Society regards people with mental disabilities with such extreme stigma, and attributes them with such insulting and misleading stereotypes, that most casting directors would not even consider employing someone with a mental disability."

Clark is setting up a forum for all mentally disabled actors, where they can be encouraged and supported. The forum will also generate publicity through public events and debates.

In another sign that Clark has launched her campaign at a turning point, Channel 4 will next week launchCast Offs, a comedy drama about the making of aSurvivor-type reality TV programme featuring physically disabled characters. Created by Jack Thorne, who has written forShamelessandSkins, Tony Roche, who has written forThe Thick Of It, and Alex Bulmer, the programme features thalidomide victims, dwarfism and the face-disfiguring cherubism, a rare genetic disorder.

Clark wants to see a similar commitment to how mental disability is portrayed. "At the moment mentally disabled actors only appear on our screens in plot lines revolving entirely around their disability, and generally only in scenarios where they need to be rescued from something to do with their disability by a non-disabled protagonist We want to see disabled actors playing parts where the least interesting thing about them is their disability."

Clark expects a long battle. She points to the decision by the British Board of Film Classification to warn viewers that the comedySpecial Peoplefeatured disabled people. "Giving the film a 'disability theme', as though we have to be warned away from disabled people, was bizarre," said the film's director, Justin Edgar.


Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (2)
#819 From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:08 pm
Subject: Re: Scary article from Boston Herald 		ledheadlydia
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Larry,

I couldn't agree more. Absalom? Beloved child of David. How ironic the bestial boy you encountered would be named after one who avenged the rape of his sister by their brother...

I invited Alex to join, Larry. He is active in ASAN as well as being local (I know him in person) here in South Florida.

Alex is brilliant, straightforward and perseverates on research... especially psychiatric stuff.

Okay. That's the nutshell version. Alex can do a much better job of introducing himself.

Egad! I have to keep retyping words because my fingers don't want to behave today.

~Lyd

On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 9:24 PM, larry Lyons <larryd552002@...> wrote:

Hi Alexander,
The authorities are bullies themselves in spite of their solemn and righteous airs. Filthy swine.
I too was bullied in school. I still have a graphite tattoo on my elbow where some jerk stabbed me with a pencil when I was thirteen. I'm an adult now though.
One day one of my customers (Im a self-employed gardener) had a beautiful eleven-year-old son. This guy was beautiful--goddamned Absalom, and his mother loved him to distraction. One day he was home alone while I was working in the yard. When I went to mow the back, I caught him beating up on a little autistic neighbor kid, smiling a laughing all the while punching the boy as he was curled up in the fetal position. I shouted at him: Hey Absalom. Leave that kid alone or I will put blemishes on you!
Later his mother called me at home saying Dont you ever talk to my son in that tone of voice as long as you live! Do you understand me! I told her to fuck off.
This evil bitch was a professional clinical psychologist, all wise and erudite using professorial diction, and yet so incredibly stupid. It was almost comical. I thought of her as a female Navin Johnson.
Anyway, she represents everything I have hated all my life. These assholes would still bully me if they could get away with it, but I am invulnerable to that shit anymore. I am my own boss; literally as well as figuratively.
Yours,
Larry
P.S: Im glad you joined the group. If you dont mind me asking, how did you find it? Most of the people here know me from Aspergers Circle.


--- On Sun, 11/15/09, Alexander Cheezem <CheezeA@...> wrote
From: Alexander Cheezem <CheezeA@...>
Subject: Re: [for-and-by-autistics] Scary article from Boston Herald
To: for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 3:40 PM


I don't have time to fully respond, so I'm going to echo myself from another message with abrief explanation.
I recently was asked about my own school experiences by the father of a bullied autistic child. The following is from my response:
"I went through Junior High at a public school in South Carolina. Other than some timing issues (shortly after I started, they switched from a 7th to 9th program to a 6h to 8th, meaning that my "junior high" experience was only 7th and 8th grades) and the constant bullying and ostracism, it was fairly unremarkable -- on an official level. I place these caveats there because the bullying was truly out of hand; I once counted more than 80 instances of bullying (although I didn't think of it that way at the time) in the five minute period between two classes. As I have issues remembering names, this gave the teachers a convenient excuse for ignoring the matter, and they categorically refused to do anything about it.

"After I completed the 8th grade, my family moved back to Florida, and I had hoped that my nightmare would be behind me. Unfortunately, this wasn't the case.

"My first high school was an elite private school near my house. I was eventually asked to leave due to fact that my being bullied was disrupting classes (the bullying had extended into class time). Subsequent to this, I went to a boarding "school" where I was pretty horribly abused by staff (I came out with a case of PTSD and a need for knee surgery). I then went to a more normal private boarding school, before again being asked to leave due to bullies' actions against me (we pressed assault charges against another student after he broke my collarbone, and the school decided I was a legal liability). Following this, I went to my local public school for a while, before we tried to find a more suitable placement. The pattern repeated itself at a special ed private boarding school (where I was both abused by staff and bullied, and again asked to leave) and I again went back to my local public school. Following more altercations with bullies, I was placed in a program for the emotionally handicapped which shared its dining facilities with the mental word of a major psychiatric hospital. While I wasn't actively abused there, the academics were effectively nonexistent. I again went back to my local public school, and eventually graduated with a mix of honors, AP, and special education (read: even more worthless than usual) classes.

"I'm probably missing a school or two in there. Due to concurrent psychiatric interventions, my memories of that period are fairly fuzzy. Suffice it to say, however, that I know what being bullied is like.

"I've also left out a very great deal in my account. Not everyone I knew back then was a bully, and I had some friends. Of course, some friends were actually friends, and some were... err... "friends", if you get my meaning."
There was more, but that's about as much as I can quote without disclosing details about the other person in the exchange's situation.
Suffice it to say that the article was completely unsurprising to me.
-- Alexander Cheezem












--
Lydia Glider-Shelley
Broward County Special Needs Parents Examiner
www.examiner.com
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
WE CAN DO THIS
http://www.nopom.info
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
Hear the REAL Voices of Autism:
www.iamautism.org
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
~~Mahatma Gandhi

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (10)
#818 From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:00 pm
Subject: Re: Scary article from Boston Herald 		ledheadlydia
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Awwww Alex,

((((((( HUGS )))))))

It's a miracle that you managed to get yourself educated at all considering the barriers you encountered. Bullying is nothing short of terrorism, whether it's verbal or physical, and it's time people stopped accepting the (weak) common responses. Maybe I'll discuss the torment I went through in school one day. I'm sure it would be cathartic.

I must say that this is my #1 advocacy interest, the second one being the fund I hope to start or see started that will provide assistive technology and the ability to communicate to those of our brethren who still have not yet been able to. As you know, I feel that communication is a right (basically an extension of the first amendment) and therefore these devices should be considered necessities for those who need them - not luxuries.

But I digress. I really would like to get seriously involved in the elimination of bullying from our schools and society at large. Tall order? Maybe. Worth it? You betcha.

On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Alexander Cheezem <CheezeA@...> wrote:

I don't have time to fully respond, so I'm going to echo myself from another message with abrief explanation.
I recently was asked about my own school experiences by the father of a bullied autistic child. The following is from my response:
"I went through Junior High at a public school in South Carolina. Other than some timing issues (shortly after I started, they switched from a 7th to 9th program to a 6h to 8th, meaning that my "junior high" experience was only 7th and 8th grades) and the constant bullying and ostracism, it was fairly unremarkable -- on an official level. I place these caveats there because the bullying was truly out of hand; I once counted more than 80 instances of bullying (although I didn't think of it that way at the time) in the five minute period between two classes. As I have issues remembering names, this gave the teachers a convenient excuse for ignoring the matter, and they categorically refused to do anything about it.

"After I completed the 8th grade, my family moved back to Florida, and I had hoped that my nightmare would be behind me. Unfortunately, this wasn't the case.

"My first high school was an elite private school near my house. I was eventually asked to leave due to fact that my being bullied was disrupting classes (the bullying had extended into class time). Subsequent to this, I went to a boarding "school" where I was pretty horribly abused by staff (I came out with a case of PTSD and a need for knee surgery). I then went to a more normal private boarding school, before again being asked to leave due to bullies' actions against me (we pressed assault charges against another student after he broke my collarbone, and the school decided I was a legal liability). Following this, I went to my local public school for a while, before we tried to find a more suitable placement. The pattern repeated itself at a special ed private boarding school (where I was both abused by staff and bullied, and again asked to leave) and I again went back to my local public school. Following more altercations with bullies, I was placed in a program for the emotionally handicapped which shared its dining facilities with the mental word of a major psychiatric hospital. While I wasn't actively abused there, the academics were effectively nonexistent. I again went back to my local public school, and eventually graduated with a mix of honors, AP, and special education (read: even more worthless than usual) classes.

"I'm probably missing a school or two in there. Due to concurrent psychiatric interventions, my memories of that period are fairly fuzzy. Suffice it to say, however, that I know what being bullied is like.

"I've also left out a very great deal in my account. Not everyone I knew back then was a bully, and I had some friends. Of course, some friends were actually friends, and some were... err... "friends", if you get my meaning."
There was more, but that's about as much as I can quote without disclosing details about the other person in the exchange's situation.
Suffice it to say that the article was completely unsurprising to me.
-- Alexander Cheezem


On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 12:22 PM, larry Lyons <larryd552002@...> wrote:


One of the treasured members of this group, Elizabeth, was bullied when she was thirteen. Some boys on the school bus were calling her a retard. When she reported this to her mother, her mother went to the parents of one of the horrible boys, but came home crying because the parents were mean to her. They refused to believe thier idiot son would ever bully a girl, and they blamed Elizabeth!
Incidentally; I hope this message inspires her to start posting here again. We haven't heard from her in a dog's age.
Yours,
Larry

--- On Sun, 11/15/09, Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...> wrote:

From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Subject: [for-and-by-autistics] Scary article from Boston Herald
To: "Lydia Shelley" <rainbow.websites@...>
Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 7:34 AM

This was sent to another group I'm in... I'm not surprised. But I am horrified.








--
Lydia Glider-Shelley
Broward County Special Needs Parents Examiner
www.examiner.com
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
WE CAN DO THIS
http://www.nopom.info
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
Hear the REAL Voices of Autism:
www.iamautism.org
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
~~Mahatma Gandhi

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (10)
#817 From: larry Lyons <larryd552002@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:24 am
Subject: Re: Scary article from Boston Herald 		larryd552002
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Hi Alexander,
 
The authorities are bullies themselves in spite of their solemn and righteous airs. Filthy swine.
 
I too was bullied in school. I still have a graphite tattoo on my elbow where some jerk stabbed me with a pencil when I was thirteen.  I'm an adult now though.
 
One day one of my customers (I’m a self-employed gardener) had a beautiful eleven-year-old son. This guy was beautiful--goddamned Absalom, and his mother loved him to distraction. One day he was home alone while I was working in the yard. When I went to mow the back, I caught him beating up on a little autistic neighbor kid, smiling a laughing all the while punching the boy as he was curled up in the fetal position. I shouted at him: “ Hey Absalom. Leave that kid alone or I will put blemishes on you!”
Later his mother called me at home saying “Don’t you ever talk to my son in that tone of voice as long as you live! Do you understand me!” I told her to fuck off.
This evil bitch was a professional clinical psychologist, all wise and erudite using professorial diction, and yet so incredibly stupid. It was almost comical. I thought of her as a female Navin Johnson.
 
Anyway, she represents everything I have hated all my life. These assholes would still bully me if they could get away with it, but I am invulnerable to that shit anymore. I am my own boss; literally as well as figuratively. 
 
 
Yours,
Larry
 
P.S: I’m glad you joined the group. If you don’t mind me asking, how did you find it? Most of the people here know me from Asperger’s Circle.


--- On Sun, 11/15/09, Alexander Cheezem <CheezeA@...> wrote
From: Alexander Cheezem <CheezeA@...>
Subject: Re: [for-and-by-autistics] Scary article from Boston Herald
To: for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 3:40 PM

 
I don't have time to fully respond, so I'm going to echo myself from another message with a brief explanation.
 
I recently was asked about my own school experiences by the father of a bullied autistic child. The following is from my response:
 
"I went through Junior High at a public school in South Carolina. Other than some timing issues (shortly after I started, they switched from a 7th to 9th program to a 6h to 8th, meaning that my "junior high" experience was only 7th and 8th grades) and the constant bullying and ostracism, it was fairly unremarkable -- on an official level. I place these caveats there because the bullying was truly out of hand; I once counted more than 80 instances of bullying (although I didn't think of it that way at the time) in the five minute period between two classes. As I have issues remembering names, this gave the teachers a convenient excuse for ignoring the matter, and they categorically refused to do anything about it.

"After I completed the 8th grade, my family moved back to Florida, and I had hoped that my nightmare would be behind me. Unfortunately, this wasn't the case.

"My first high school was an elite private school near my house. I was eventually asked to leave due to fact that my being bullied was disrupting classes (the bullying had extended into class time). Subsequent to this, I went to a boarding "school" where I was pretty horribly abused by staff (I came out with a case of PTSD and a need for knee surgery). I then went to a more normal private boarding school, before again being asked to leave due to bullies' actions against me (we pressed assault charges against another student after he broke my collarbone, and the school decided I was a legal liability). Following this, I went to my local public school for a while, before we tried to find a more suitable placement. The pattern repeated itself at a special ed private boarding school (where I was both abused by staff and bullied, and again asked to leave) and I again went back to my local public school. Following more altercations with bullies, I was placed in a program for the emotionally handicapped which shared its dining facilities with the mental word of a major psychiatric hospital. While I wasn't actively abused there, the academics were effectively nonexistent. I again went back to my local public school, and eventually graduated with a mix of honors, AP, and special education (read: even more worthless than usual) classes.

"I'm probably missing a school or two in there. Due to concurrent psychiatric interventions, my memories of that period are fairly fuzzy. Suffice it to say, however, that I know what being bullied is like.

"I've also left out a very great deal in my account. Not everyone I knew back then was a bully, and I had some friends. Of course, some friends were actually friends, and some were... err... "friends", if you get my meaning."
 
There was more, but that's about as much as I can quote without disclosing details about the other person in the exchange's situation.
 
Suffice it to say that the article was completely unsurprising to me.
 
-- Alexander Cheezem



 







Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (10)
#816 From: Alexander Cheezem <CheezeA@...>
Date: Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:40 pm
Subject: Re: Scary article from Boston Herald 		alehbert
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I don't have time to fully respond, so I'm going to echo myself from another message with abrief explanation.
I recently was asked about my own school experiences by the father of a bullied autistic child. The following is from my response:
"I went through Junior High at a public school in South Carolina. Other than some timing issues (shortly after I started, they switched from a 7th to 9th program to a 6h to 8th, meaning that my "junior high" experience was only 7th and 8th grades) and the constant bullying and ostracism, it was fairly unremarkable -- on an official level. I place these caveats there because the bullying was truly out of hand; I once counted more than 80 instances of bullying (although I didn't think of it that way at the time) in the five minute period between two classes. As I have issues remembering names, this gave the teachers a convenient excuse for ignoring the matter, and they categorically refused to do anything about it.

"After I completed the 8th grade, my family moved back to Florida, and I had hoped that my nightmare would be behind me. Unfortunately, this wasn't the case.

"My first high school was an elite private school near my house. I was eventually asked to leave due to fact that my being bullied was disrupting classes (the bullying had extended into class time). Subsequent to this, I went to a boarding "school" where I was pretty horribly abused by staff (I came out with a case of PTSD and a need for knee surgery). I then went to a more normal private boarding school, before again being asked to leave due to bullies' actions against me (we pressed assault charges against another student after he broke my collarbone, and the school decided I was a legal liability). Following this, I went to my local public school for a while, before we tried to find a more suitable placement. The pattern repeated itself at a special ed private boarding school (where I was both abused by staff and bullied, and again asked to leave) and I again went back to my local public school. Following more altercations with bullies, I was placed in a program for the emotionally handicapped which shared its dining facilities with the mental word of a major psychiatric hospital. While I wasn't actively abused there, the academics were effectively nonexistent. I again went back to my local public school, and eventually graduated with a mix of honors, AP, and special education (read: even more worthless than usual) classes.

"I'm probably missing a school or two in there. Due to concurrent psychiatric interventions, my memories of that period are fairly fuzzy. Suffice it to say, however, that I know what being bullied is like.

"I've also left out a very great deal in my account. Not everyone I knew back then was a bully, and I had some friends. Of course, some friends were actually friends, and some were... err... "friends", if you get my meaning."
There was more, but that's about as much as I can quote without disclosing details about the other person in the exchange's situation.
Suffice it to say that the article was completely unsurprising to me.
-- Alexander Cheezem


On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 12:22 PM, larry Lyons <larryd552002@...> wrote:


One of the treasured members of this group, Elizabeth, was bullied when she was thirteen. Some boys on the school bus were calling her a retard. When she reported this to her mother, her mother went to the parents of one of the horrible boys, but came home crying because the parents were mean to her. They refused to believe thier idiot son would ever bully a girl, and they blamed Elizabeth!
Incidentally; I hope this message inspires her to start posting here again. We haven't heard from her in a dog's age.
Yours,
Larry

--- On Sun, 11/15/09, Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...> wrote:

From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Subject: [for-and-by-autistics] Scary article from Boston Herald
To: "Lydia Shelley" <rainbow.websites@...>
Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 7:34 AM

This was sent to another group I'm in... I'm not surprised. But I am horrified.






Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (10)
#815 From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Date: Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:59 pm
Subject: Re: Scary article from Boston Herald 		ledheadlydia
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I can believe that. The acorns don't fall far from the tree, but they're still nuts.
; )

I had an issue with my son being harassed by a student at a school in my neighborhood which he has to pass on his way home from school. I notified the school and the problem was dealt with, but I'm still concerned that this kid will show up some weekend with a weapon and go after my son when he least expects it.


On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 12:22 PM, larry Lyons <larryd552002@...> wrote:

One of the treasured members of this group, Elizabeth, was bullied when she was thirteen. Some boys on the school bus were calling her a retard. When she reported this to her mother, her mother went to the parents of one of the horrible boys, but came home crying because the parents were mean to her. They refused to believe thier idiot son would ever bully a girl, and they blamed Elizabeth!
Incidentally; I hope this message inspires her to start posting here again. We haven't heard from her in a dog's age.
Yours,
Larry

--- On Sun, 11/15/09, Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...> wrote:

From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Subject: [for-and-by-autistics] Scary article from Boston Herald
To: "Lydia Shelley" <rainbow.websites@...>
Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 7:34 AM

This was sent to another group I'm in... I'm not surprised. But I am horrified.




Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (10)
#814 From: larry Lyons <larryd552002@...>
Date: Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:22 pm
Subject: Re: Scary article from Boston Herald 		larryd552002
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One of the treasured members of this group, Elizabeth, was bullied when she was thirteen.  Some boys on the school bus were calling her a retard.  When she reported this to her mother, her mother went to the parents of one of the horrible boys, but came home crying because the parents were mean to her.  They refused to believe thier idiot son would ever bully a girl, and they blamed Elizabeth! 
 
Incidentally; I hope this message inspires her to start posting here again.  We haven't heard from her in a dog's age.
 
Yours,
             Larry

--- On Sun, 11/15/09, Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...> wrote:

From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Subject: [for-and-by-autistics] Scary article from Boston Herald
To: "Lydia Shelley" <rainbow.websites@...>
Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 7:34 AM

 
This was sent to another group I'm in... I'm not surprised. But I am horrified.



Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (10)
#813 From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Date: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:34 pm
Subject: Scary article from Boston Herald 		ledheadlydia
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This was sent to another group I'm in... I'm not surprised. But I am horrified.


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#812 From: Bonnie <orebon@...>
Date: Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:45 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Motivation/activation 		bonnieinthemist
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I got a series of error messages.
Could you paste it into a post?

~Bonnie



On Nov 13, 2009, at 2:17 PM, Lydia Glider-Shelley wrote:
My friend Steve sent me this. I'm going to try and share it this way,
let me know if you can't access it. I made it into a google doc I
think...

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (4)
#811 From: larry Lyons <larryd552002@...>
Date: Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:51 am
Subject: Re: Re: Motivation/activation 		larryd552002
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Hi Lydia,
Although I do have g-mail, I can't see the document on my primitive computer.  I have to download some stuff in order to see it, but it's unclear what precisely it is I have to do.
 
Yours,
             Larry

--- On Fri, 11/13/09, Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...> wrote:

From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Subject: [for-and-by-autistics] Re: Motivation/activation
To: "Lydia Shelley" <rainbow.websites@...>
Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 2:17 PM

 
My friend Steve sent me this. I'm going to try and share it this way, let me know if you can't access it. I made it into a google doc I think...



--
Lydia Glider-Shelley
Broward County Special Needs Parents Examiner
www.examiner. com
<3  <3  <3  <3  <3  <3  <3
WE CAN DO THIS
http://www.nopom. info
<3  <3  <3  <3  <3  <3  <3
Hear the REAL Voices of Autism:
www.iamautism. org
<3  <3  <3  <3  <3  <3  <3
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
~~Mahatma Gandhi


Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (4)
#810 From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Date: Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:17 pm
Subject: Re: Motivation/activation 		ledheadlydia
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
My friend Steve sent me this. I'm going to try and share it this way, let me know if you can't access it. I made it into a google doc I think...



--
Lydia Glider-Shelley
Broward County Special Needs Parents Examiner
www.examiner.com
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
WE CAN DO THIS
http://www.nopom.info
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
Hear the REAL Voices of Autism:
www.iamautism.org
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
~~Mahatma Gandhi

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (4)
#809 From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Date: Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:26 pm
Subject: Motivation/activation 		ledheadlydia
Offline Offline
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There was a conversation going on in another group that related to how to motivate ourselves and activate that intensely focused part of us which enables us to excel at a given task when we're passionate about the subject matter and "get in a groove". Anyway, I got this via email today and thought that others besides the members of that one group might benefit from these tips:

I edited what's below to add my own personal experience... but kept them brief.

Tip: Secrets to Avoiding Burnout
It's important that you always remain motivated. Here are some secrets to help you avoid burnout.

Put in 15 minutes.
When the thought of sitting down to the computer late (or finishing up the housework) at night makes you want to cry, convince yourself to put in just 15 minutes. At the very least you will get a little something done.

But don't be surprised if once you begin your task, you get more done. Sometimes the hardest part is getting started.

Keep it realistic.
Setting high goals is good, but make sure they are realistic. Setting your sights too high can backfire when you aren't able to reach them and this can actually ruin your motivation if you start feeling like a failure.

Jot down goals on paper, but keep assessing your progress and make adjustments when necessary. Remember there are many ways to get to the finish line. Keep evaluating because your initial course may not be the best way if it proves to be unrealistic.

The analogy of a ship setting course for a distant port is a good one. You can't just plot a course and go. You must account for ocean currents and weather, recalculating at intervals - or you will never make it to your destination. Those changes to the initial plan are minor corrections in most cases, but vital to reaching that port.

Keep a gratitude journal.
One sure way to have a positive attitude is to keep a gratitude journal. Jotting down everything you are thankful for on a consistent basis will help you keep things in perspective and realize just how good you have it.

Maintaining a positive, upbeat attitude will help you to feel thankful for this opportunity and keep you motivated to make the most of it.

Get inspired.
Put together an "Inspiration Binder". This can consist of inspiring quotes and letters of encouragement from friends and family. Be sure to include a letter to yourself.

Putting your own strengths on paper is not conceited but rather a great way to pump yourself up when negative self-talk gets down. Don't underestimate the power of motivating words.

*******************

This Job.com Tip has been brought to you by Project Working Mom... and Dads, too!, where you can apply to receive a $4,000 college scholarship!

--
Lydia Glider-Shelley
Broward County Special Needs Parents Examiner
www.examiner.com
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
WE CAN DO THIS
http://www.nopom.info
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
Hear the REAL Voices of Autism:
www.iamautism.org
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
~~Mahatma Gandhi


--
Lydia Glider-Shelley
Broward County Special Needs Parents Examiner
www.examiner.com
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
WE CAN DO THIS
http://www.nopom.info
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
Hear the REAL Voices of Autism:
www.iamautism.org
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
~~Mahatma Gandhi

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (4)
#808 From: larry Lyons <larryd552002@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:21 pm
Subject: Re:Re: To Josh 		larryd552002
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Hi Joshua,
 
I'm glad you are reading Beyond the Pleasure Principle.  That is a good read.  To this day it's popular among literature professors and philosophers.  Even the Jungians love it.
 
 
Anyway, modern psychotherapists treat patients as if they were lambs, because as psyche students that's how they were treated.  Ignorance begets ignorance.  It's criminal, because knowledge is there for the taking.  Yesterday in Yahoo headlines they reported on two girls who suffred from  constant sneezing.  
 
 
I asked a psychoanalyst about it, and here's what he told me:
 
----
 
"The sneezing is intriguing.

The first girl doesn't give full-blown sneezes. It reminds me of
both Touretttes which features a great deal of pent up/repressed violence
and obsessional compulsions (which has murder and guilt at its source).
She also mentioned "annoying". The second girl talked about
"knives" going through her hands. So both are expressing
disguised and ritualized aggression and
suffering for it(atonement)--a compromise solution.

It would require more details to find the sources of the girls' anger
and the ways they deal with it. It might be possible to do so.

One or two of their dreams would be of help."
 
-----
 
Compare that to the vapid experts (so-called) used by the news announcers. 
 
Yours,
             Larry



--- On Thu, 11/12/09, typhoon1820@... <typhoon1820@...> wrote:

From: typhoon1820@... <typhoon1820@...>
Subject: Re:Re: [for-and-by-autistics] To Josh
To: larryd552002@..., for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 8:53 AM

 
Hey larry, i am reading beyond the pleasure principal first. Waitin for the other one to show up. I'm finding myself recently with wanting diapers but not really having the interest full-blown like it was... And well, right now the diapers are another expense in a long list of things that still need to be paid off, i still feel i need to have them like my need to be dominated. I know i'm becoming a pain in the ass with all this, but get more out of the advice and help here than any therapy or hospital. And for that, i can't thank you all enough again. Especially you Larry... You are one in a million! Thanks, Josh

------Original Message----- -
From: larry Lyons <larryd552002@ yahoo.com>
To: <for-and-by-autistic s@yahoogroups. com>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 12:14:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: [for-and-by- autistics] To Josh

Hi Josh,
I want to know which book you are reading.  Those first two I recommended only explained instinctual masochism.  Those won't help you understand infantilism though.   I can't remember in which book regression was explained,  It will be easier if I explain it myself. Regardless,  *Introductory Lectures* will give you a broad understanding.  
 
I'll get back to you when you reply to this post.
 
Yours,
               Larry 

--- On Tue, 11/10/09, Josh in RI <typhoon1820@ yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Josh in RI <typhoon1820@ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [for-and-by- autistics] To Josh
To: for-and-by-autistic s@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 11:45 AM

 

Hey Lydia, I don't know if you got the last email I sent from the phone... But I DO know what it's like to be abandoned and abused by your supposed loved ones... Those same ones are the ones that think I'm a pedophile because of my infantilism and regressions. I am too familiar with the lonliness and isolation of having to be alone for so many years. The Isolation and lonlness of who you thought were loved ones only to be betrayed, decieved and neglected because nobody ever really cared about you in the first place. I've been dealing with this painful hurt and isolation for over 20 years, and need to find a way to make it stop...
 
However, due to some recent events I have decided to try and avoid the JRC for a possible treatment center... Reason being is because I can not afford the price, or the time of being locked up there. I honestly think I'll be better off with being a baby again or a submissive slave... This way I can get what I'm looking for and not have to worry about NOT being let go, or getting too badly hurt. Larry has recommended a couple of Frued's books for me to read and begin to decifer my thoughts and desires. I've just started reading the first one and will let you guys know what I'm able to figure out and how I am relating to it.
 
It's my want and need for being dominated and wanting to be a helpless baby again that drives me to think the way I do about it and obsessing over it. Because though it's that release I'm looking for, I know those can be done on a short-term, temporary basis unlkie hospitals and places like the JRC...

Thanks again, and much love always...
Josh in RI

typhoon1820@ yahoo.com
www.myspace. com/anomalous92t y1820

--- On Sat, 11/7/09, Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@gmail. com> wrote:

From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@gmail. com>
Subject: [for-and-by- autistics] To Josh
To: for-and-by-autistic s@yahoogroups. com
Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 1:36 PM

 

I have discussed your desires (anonymously, of course) with the gentleman who is most serious about getting JRC closed down. He made the following remarks. BTW... when he says "Shelley" he's not talking about me.

  ************ ********* *

I think this guy doesn't fully appreciate that the GED is not the only method used nor even the worst. The psychological abuse is probably by far the worst. Being separated from those that love you and care for you is probably by far the worst. One of the reasons I feel so strongly about the JRC is the emotional isolation in such settings because for 5 years, I lived in a place separated from loved ones, unable to escape, all the while being psychologically and physically abused. It is one thing to be abused in a "day" setting and then getting reprieve at home during part of the day and quite another to live 24 hours and hundreds of miles away from safety. These kids and adults are prisoners with court supported abuse. They are completely isolated from human dignity, isolated from personal safety. It (the isolation) is hard to explain to folks that have never been held in an institution to understand. It's why I support folks like Shelley. I understand
her past, I understand what it is like to feel this abandonment and I know what it is like to be abused while abandoned for "your own good". Its why I can suffer through the meltdowns she has with me, because fundamentally, I share with her a very dark part of a soul abandoned and abused. Its why I don't care when others don't agree with me (per Charles S.) on what is most important and immediate for autistic people suffering under such imprisonment and abuse. The isolation and the abuse destroys your soul. Prisoners of War and genocide can certainly understand this, but outside that context, I don't think many can fully and deeply, understand this type of isolation.



Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (5)
#807 From: typhoon1820@...
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:53 pm
Subject: Re:Re: To Josh 		typhoon1820
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
  
Hey larry, i am reading beyond the pleasure principal first. Waitin for the
other one to show up. I'm finding myself recently with wanting diapers but not
really having the interest full-blown like it was... And well, right now the
diapers are another expense in a long list of things that still need to be paid
off, i still feel i need to have them like my need to be dominated. I know i'm
becoming a pain in the ass with all this, but get more out of the advice and
help here than any therapy or hospital. And for that, i can't thank you all
enough again. Especially you Larry... You are one in a million! Thanks, Josh


------Original Message------
From: larry Lyons <larryd552002@...>
To:  <for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 12:14:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: [for-and-by-autistics] To Josh

Hi Josh,
I want to know which book you are reading.  Those first two I recommended only
explained instinctual masochism.  Those won't help you understand infantilism
though.   I can't remember in which book regression was explained,  It will
be easier if I explain it myself. Regardless, *Introductory Lectures* will
give you a broad understanding.  
 
I'll get back to you when you reply to this post.
 
Yours,
               Larry 

--- On Tue, 11/10/09, Josh in RI <typhoon1820@...> wrote:


From: Josh in RI <typhoon1820@...>
Subject: Re: [for-and-by-autistics] To Josh
To: for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 11:45 AM


 








Hey Lydia, I don't know if you got the last email I sent from the phone... But I
DO know what it's like to be abandoned and abused by your supposed loved ones...
Those same ones are the ones that think I'm a pedophile because of my
infantilism and regressions. I am too familiar with the lonliness and isolation
of having to be alone for so many years. The Isolation and lonlness of who you
thought were loved ones only to be betrayed, decieved and neglected because
nobody ever really cared about you in the first place. I've been dealing with
this painful hurt and isolation for over 20 years, and need to find a way to
make it stop...
 
However, due to some recent events I have decided to try and avoid the JRC for a
possible treatment center... Reason being is because I can not afford the price,
or the time of being locked up there. I honestly think I'll be better off with
being a baby again or a submissive slave... This way I can get what I'm looking
for and not have to worry about NOT being let go, or getting too badly hurt.
Larry has recommended a couple of Frued's books for me to read and begin to
decifer my thoughts and desires. I've just started reading the first one and
will let you guys know what I'm able to figure out and how I am relating to it.
 
It's my want and need for being dominated and wanting to be a helpless baby
again that drives me to think the way I do about it and obsessing over it.
Because though it's that release I'm looking for, I know those can be done on a
short-term, temporary basis unlkie hospitals and places like the JRC...

Thanks again, and much love always...
Josh in RI









typhoon1820@ yahoo.com
www.myspace. com/anomalous92t y1820

--- On Sat, 11/7/09, Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@gmail. com> wrote:


From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@gmail. com>
Subject: [for-and-by- autistics] To Josh
To: for-and-by-autistic s@yahoogroups. com
Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 1:36 PM


 

I have discussed your desires (anonymously, of course) with the gentleman who is
most serious about getting JRC closed down. He made the following remarks.
BTW... when he says "Shelley" he's not talking about me.


  ************ ********* *



I think this guy doesn't fully appreciate that the GED is not the only method
used nor even the worst. The psychological abuse is probably by far the worst.
Being separated from those that love you and care for you is probably by far the
worst. One of the reasons I feel so strongly about the JRC is the emotional
isolation in such settings because for 5 years, I lived in a place separated
from loved ones, unable to escape, all the while being psychologically and
physically abused. It is one thing to be abused in a "day" setting and then
getting reprieve at home during part of the day and quite another to live 24
hours and hundreds of miles away from safety. These kids and adults are
prisoners with court supported abuse. They are completely isolated from human
dignity, isolated from personal safety. It (the isolation) is hard to explain to
folks that have never been held in an institution to understand. It's why I
support folks like Shelley. I understand
  her past, I understand what it is like to feel this abandonment and I know what
it is like to be abused while abandoned for "your own good". Its why I can
suffer through the meltdowns she has with me, because fundamentally, I share
with her a very dark part of a soul abandoned and abused. Its why I don't care
when others don't agree with me (per Charles S.) on what is most important and
immediate for autistic people suffering under such imprisonment and abuse. The
isolation and the abuse destroys your soul. Prisoners of War and genocide can
certainly understand this, but outside that context, I don't think many can
fully and deeply, understand this type of isolation.

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (5)
#806 From: larry Lyons <larryd552002@...>
Date: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:14 pm
Subject: Re: To Josh 		larryd552002
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Josh,
I want to know which book you are reading.  Those first two I recommended only explained instinctual masochism.  Those won't help you understand infantilism though.   I can't remember in which book regression was explained,  It will be easier if I explain it myself. Regardless, *Introductory Lectures* will give you a broad understanding.  
 
I'll get back to you when you reply to this post.
 
Yours,
               Larry 

--- On Tue, 11/10/09, Josh in RI <typhoon1820@...> wrote:

From: Josh in RI <typhoon1820@...>
Subject: Re: [for-and-by-autistics] To Josh
To: for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 11:45 AM

 
Hey Lydia, I don't know if you got the last email I sent from the phone... But I DO know what it's like to be abandoned and abused by your supposed loved ones... Those same ones are the ones that think I'm a pedophile because of my infantilism and regressions. I am too familiar with the lonliness and isolation of having to be alone for so many years. The Isolation and lonlness of who you thought were loved ones only to be betrayed, decieved and neglected because nobody ever really cared about you in the first place. I've been dealing with this painful hurt and isolation for over 20 years, and need to find a way to make it stop...
 
However, due to some recent events I have decided to try and avoid the JRC for a possible treatment center... Reason being is because I can not afford the price, or the time of being locked up there. I honestly think I'll be better off with being a baby again or a submissive slave... This way I can get what I'm looking for and not have to worry about NOT being let go, or getting too badly hurt. Larry has recommended a couple of Frued's books for me to read and begin to decifer my thoughts and desires. I've just started reading the first one and will let you guys know what I'm able to figure out and how I am relating to it.
 
It's my want and need for being dominated and wanting to be a helpless baby again that drives me to think the way I do about it and obsessing over it. Because though it's that release I'm looking for, I know those can be done on a short-term, temporary basis unlkie hospitals and places like the JRC...

Thanks again, and much love always...
Josh in RI


--- On Sat, 11/7/09, Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@gmail. com> wrote:

From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@gmail. com>
Subject: [for-and-by- autistics] To Josh
To: for-and-by-autistic s@yahoogroups. com
Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 1:36 PM

 
I have discussed your desires (anonymously, of course) with the gentleman who is most serious about getting JRC closed down. He made the following remarks. BTW... when he says "Shelley" he's not talking about me.
  ************ ********* *
I think this guy doesn't fully appreciate that the GED is not the only method used nor even the worst. The psychological abuse is probably by far the worst. Being separated from those that love you and care for you is probably by far the worst. One of the reasons I feel so strongly about the JRC is the emotional isolation in such settings because for 5 years, I lived in a place separated from loved ones, unable to escape, all the while being psychologically and physically abused. It is one thing to be abused in a "day" setting and then getting reprieve at home during part of the day and quite another to live 24 hours and hundreds of miles away from safety. These kids and adults are prisoners with court supported abuse. They are completely isolated from human dignity, isolated from personal safety. It (the isolation) is hard to explain to folks that have never been held in an institution to understand. It's why I support folks like Shelley. I understand her past, I understand what it is like to feel this abandonment and I know what it is like to be abused while abandoned for "your own good". Its why I can suffer through the meltdowns she has with me, because fundamentally, I share with her a very dark part of a soul abandoned and abused. Its why I don't care when others don't agree with me (per Charles S.) on what is most important and immediate for autistic people suffering under such imprisonment and abuse. The isolation and the abuse destroys your soul. Prisoners of War and genocide can certainly understand this, but outside that context, I don't think many can fully and deeply, understand this type of isolation.




Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (5)
#805 From: larry Lyons <larryd552002@...>
Date: Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:59 pm
Subject: Re: Autism Study Could Find Answers in Magic (Interview with Stephen Shore) 		larryd552002
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
This is a riot!  The researchers themselves are like the boyscouts who couldn't see the slit in the rubber.  They are misdirected from reality by political considerations.  The telling passage is this:
 
"When measuring the eye movements of autistic children watching movies, researchers discovered that they don't look at the human faces, they look at random objects on the screen."
 
Like huh?  Don't we tend to look at foreheads and mouths in order to avoid looking at eyes?  Children watching movies don't need such refinements since nobody is making them maintain eye contact. They just avoid looking at the faces entirely.  If that is not a learned psychological trait, I'll eat my hat.  There is nothing instinctual about it.  Scopophilia--the *wish* to see--is a universal component instinct.  All sighted beings are born with a wish to see.  It's almost erotic. The wish to avoid seeing something is therefore necessarily a reaction formation--an anti-instinct.
 
To a newborn everything is beautiful to look at.  Autistics are born with the same instincts.  The only reason we are repelled by any sight has to be learned.  According to Freud, all disgust and fear started out as attractive.  That's the only mechanics involved in this "study", if one can call it that. 
 
Autistic children do not look at eyes because eyes are infantile sex organs, and autistics understand this.  I have always had a staring problem.  I get in trouble all the time, but I can't resist looking at everything.  And I learned from an early age it is evil to look at someones sex organs.  Therefore I can't look at human eyes. 
Yours,
               Larry

--- On Tue, 11/10/09, Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...> wrote:

From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Subject: [for-and-by-autistics] Autism Study Could Find Answers in Magic (Interview with Stephen Shore)
To: "Lydia Shelley" <rainbow.websites@...>
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 11:10 AM

 
Magic tricks, eh? Hmmm
http://abcnews. go.com/Health/ Autism/autism- diagnoses- treatments- found-study- magic/story? id=8988702

Autism Study Could Find Answers in Magic
Autistic People Lack Joint Attention Skills and Can't Be Fooled by Magicians' Tricks
By SUSAN DONALDSON JAMES
Nov. 10, 2009

[cid:image001.gif@ 01CA620C. 49753C70]

<http://abcnews. go.com/Health/ Autism/autism- diagnoses- treatments- found-study- magic/comments? type=story&id=8988702> The magician<http://abcnews. go.com/GMA/ Books/story? id=6636680&page=1> placed a coin atop an airtight rubber seal on a cup and -- abracadabra -- the shiny piece fell to the bottom of the cup.
But he didn't fool 8-year-old Stephen Shore, who was the only one among his fellow Boy Scouts<http://abcnews. go.com/video/ playerIndex? id=5059109> who saw through the magic trick.
"People didn't see the slit in the piece of rubber," said Shore, now 48 and an assistant professor of special education teacher at New York's Adelphi University<http://www.adelphi. edu/>. "I went up and just kind of pushed my finger into the slit."
Illusions<http://abcnews. go.com/Health/ EyeHealth/ optical-illusion s-eye-brain- agree/story? id=8455573> are the stock and trade of magicians but researchers at the Barrow Neurological Institute <http://www.thebarro w.org/index. htm> in Phoenix, Ariz., want to know why people like Shore, who fall along the autism spectrum<http://abcnews. go.com/Health/ AutismLiving/>, are not so easily fooled.
Shore has lived his entire life with autism, a neurological disorder often marked by joint-attention<http://abcnews. go.com/video/ playerIndex? id=5405579> deficits, or difficulty reading social signals; the same kind that a magician deliberately uses to throw attention away from the deception.
"Someone on the autism spectrum<http://abcnews. go.com/Health/ AutismOverview/ story?id= 5386747> is looking exactly where the magician doesn't want him to look," Shore said.
Scientists Susana Martinez-Conde<http://www.thebarro w.org/About_ Barrow/BiosIndex /189174?ssSource NodeId=5012473&ssSourceSiteId= 5012151> and Stephen Macknik<http://abcnews. go.com/Health/ Autism/autism- diagnoses- treatments- found-study- magic/www. macknik.neuralco rrelate.com>, co-authors of the upcoming book "Neuro Magic," are seeking funding to begin research that they hope will use magic as a tool for the diagnosis and treatment of autism -- despite some parents' fear that such research is too limited in scope.
"What magicians do is get people to attention with an incredible degree of depth and labor," said Macknik, director of Barrow's Laboratory of Behavioral Neurophysiology.
"Misdirection is a bit of a misnomer -- that the magician is trying to get you not to pay attention," he said. "But that's not the case. They want to control where you are especially paying attention."
An estimated 1 in 150 children -- or about 1 percent of all children -- are diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders<http://www.nimh. nih.gov/health/ topics/autism- spectrum- disorders- pervasive- developmental- disorders/ index.shtml>, a group of developmental disabilities that can cause significant social, communication and behavioral challenges, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention<http://www.cdc. gov/> in Atlanta.
The CDC considers autism an urgent public concern and says the sheer numbers warrant a concerted national response.
But, so far, there are no medical tests so doctors must rely on a child's behavior to make a diagnosis, usually by age 2. Early detection is key, experts say, so children can get intervention therapies<http://autism. healingthreshold s.com/news/ minnesota- autism-center- tailors->.
Martinez-Conde, the study's lead investigator, has devoted her research to eye movements in the field of visual neuroscience<http://www.medicaln ewstoday. com/articles/ 130274.php>.
Humans share information and grasp the thoughts and intentions of others through eye contact and gestures. Long before infants speak, they communicate and learn by following the gaze of others and use their own eye contact and gestures to direct those around them.
Autistics Have Joint-Attention Deficits
"Joint attention<http://abcnews. go.com/Health/ AutismSymptomsDi agnosis/story? id=5417337>" is a term psychologists use to indicate how people pay attention jointly in social situations.
When one person gestures or uses his or her eyes to point, the other's eyes reciprocate and follow, unconsciously. Magicians<http://abcnews. go.com/2020/ story?id= 7005903&page=1> take advantage of this instinct to covertly misdirect attention.
"When someone walks down the street and looks in the direction of something, they are going to get a circle of people looking up pretty soon," Martinez-Conde said.
Scientists think humans are hard-wired for these directional eye movements<http://www.ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/ pubmed/12677314>, which are important for survival.
"If I am attacked, I need to see what's going on," she said. "It's faster for me to see where you are looking than to wait for you to describe verbally what's going on.
"Autistic people don't respond to those cues. This deficit is one of the utmost characteristics and important predictors of how an autistic child will function as an adult cognitively and socially."
When measuring the eye movements of autistic children watching movies, researchers discovered that they don't look at the human faces, they look at random objects on the screen.
Magicians<http://abcnews. go.com/Technolog y/story?id= 5436871&page=1> use hand and eye gestures to create cognitive illusions, misdirecting attention away at the critical moment. If the brain isn't able to follow those gestures at the critical moment, the magician cannot manipulate the attention.
One example of a cognitive illusion is manipulating "inattentional blindness<http://smc.neuralco rrelate.com/ files/publicatio ns/martinez- conde_macknik_ sciam08.pdf>," Martinez-Conde said.
A classic example is a demonstration in which spectators are asked to watch a movie and count the passes of two basketball players -- one in a black shirt and one in white -- tossing the ball to each other.
"It's a difficult task," Martinez-Conde said. "The balls are flying past and you have to keep track constantly.'
But when a researcher in a gorilla suit walks across the stage beating his chest and walks away, most people are shocked that they didn't see the animal.
"A huge unexpected event occurs right in front of your gaze and goes completely unnoticed," she said.
It was at such a lecture that a person approached Martinez-Conde and said, "'You know what, I did see the gorilla but I have autism. I wonder if it has anything to do with it.' I knew then we had something important on our hands," she said
About a dozen magicians have joined the researchers, including Apollo Robbins<http://www.istealst uff.com/>, known as the "gentleman pickpocket."
He made his name in a Las Vegas act eight years ago for stealing the wallets of Secret Service<http://www.secretse rvice.gov/> agents protecting former President Jimmy Carter.
"They came to the show at Caesar's Palace and the manager told me I was not allowed to shake Carter's hand, and if I was going to steal anything, it would be from the Secret Service," he said. "I took their credentials and their keys."
Robbins, who was later asked to help police learn how thieves worked, estimated that he has successfully picked a quarter-million pockets in his career.
"My signature style is to tell people before I do it: "What time do you have? In three minutes, I'll be wearing your watch.
"When my hand came out of the pocket and I created a red herring with my hand," Robbins said. "I have to quickly gauge where there interest and attention is."
By a half-arch of the hand and eye movements, Robbins said, he "instinctively draws attention even if I told them it was going to happen."
Robbins can tell when someone in his audience has high-functioning autism, like Asperger syndrome, or attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder.
"I have to pull the attention more," he said. "It's like throwing a ball and trying to get the dog to go after the ball. You don't pretend, but you have to pay attention and account for and adjust what you are doing."
The researchers' findings may also lead to treatments for other neurological conditions like brain trauma<http://abcnews. go.com/Health/ Video/playerInde x?id=2908559>, attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder <http://abcnews. go.com/Health/ Video/playerInde x?id=3556619> and Alzheimer's disease.<http://abcnews. go.com/Health/ AlzheimersQuesti ons/story? id=7389982>
"The thing that is most intriguing is the potential ramifications for learning in general in individuals without autism," said Dr. Michael Noetzel<http://neuro. wustl.edu/ aboutus/facultyb iographies/ noetzel.htm>, chief of neurology at St. Louis Children's Hospital. "Anything that sheds light on how the brain allows us to learn is potentially useful."
"It's not help with magic tricks, it's helping them in other learning situations," he said of the possibilities.
Skeptics Worry About How to Help Autistic Kids
Stephen Shore<http://www.adelphi. edu/faculty/ profiles/ profile.php? PID=0476>, who was diagnosed with autism at age 2, when his speech stopped altogether, is excited that research might help.
For years, doctors thought his autism was psychosis and he was nearly institutionalized. But his enlightened parents gave him what is now called "intensive home-based early intervention," and today he teaches those who will teach children with autism.
He is an accomplished statistician and an accomplished musician. Most of the lingering effects are sensory: Shore can't bear tight clothing, bright inset lighting and loud sounds.
But his joint attention is the most aggravating, especially non-verbal gestures.
"We take for granted that people point in a direction and people follow suit," said Shore, who frequently travels as a member of the board of the Autism Society of America and often seeks directions at busy airports.
"I cannot determine exactly what they are pointing at; a doorway or a sign or something else," he said. "It seems to happen a lot, not picking up on something everyone else picks up on."
Still, there are skeptics who say children with autism are variable in their abilities and joint-attention research does not solve the larger question of how to help them.
"When I heard about the magic research, I rolled my eyes a bit," said Susan Etlinger, a San Francisco mother whose 6-year-old son was diagnosed with autism spectrum as a toddler.
"It's only one of the symptoms and the way in which it is manifested is so broad across children," said Etlinger, who writes the Family Room Blog<http://abcnews. go.com/Health/ Autism/autism- diagnoses- treatments- found-study- magic/www. familyroomblog. com>. "It could be anything from social quirkiness to something more intense.
"You could throw 50 kids into the same magic show, as well as typically developing kids, and you don't know what to conclude."
Children who have joint-attention deficits struggle with the stereotype that they "have no feelings and are robotic," Etlinger said.
"They're just not able to express them in a conventional way," she said. "They deserve respect and need to be met halfway and we need to have a more flexible understanding of what communication is."
Click here to see video clips from the Magic of Consciousness Symposium<http://www.macknik. neuralcorrelate. com/>.
For more information go to the Autism Society of America<http://www.autism- society.org/ site/PageServer> and Autism Speaks<http://www.autismsp eaks.org/>.


Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (3)
#804 From: larry Lyons <larryd552002@...>
Date: Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:56 pm
Subject: Re: Autism Study Could Find Answers in Magic (Interview with Stephen Shore) 		larryd552002
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
This is a riot!  The researchers themselves are like the boyscouts who couldn't see the slit in the rubber.  They are misdirected from reality by political considerations.  The telling passage is this:
 
"When measuring the eye movements of autistic children watching movies, researchers discovered that they don't look at the human faces, they look at random objects on the screen."
 
Like huh?  Don't we tend to look at foreheads and mouths in order to avoid looking at eyes?  Children watching movies don't need such refinements since nobody is making them maintain eye contact. They just avoid looking at the faces entirely.  If that is not a learned psychological trait, I'll eat my hat.  There is nothing instinctual about it.  Scopophilia--the *wish* to see--is a universal component instinct.  All sighted beings are born with a wish to see.  It's almost erotic. The wish to avoid seeing something is therefore necessarily a reaction formation--an anti-instinct.
 
To a newborn everything is beautiful to look at.  Autistics are born with the same instincts.  The only reason we are repelled by any sight has to be learned.  According to Freud, all disgust and fear started out as attractive.  That's the only mechanics involved in this "study", if one can call it that. 
 
Autistic children do not look at eyes because eyes are infantile sex organs, and autistics understand this.  I have always had a staring problem.  I get in trouble all the time, but I can't resist looking at everything.  And I learned from an early age it is evil to look at someones sex organs.  Therefore I can't look at human eyes. 
Yours,
               Larry

--- On Tue, 11/10/09, Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...> wrote:

From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Subject: [for-and-by-autistics] Autism Study Could Find Answers in Magic (Interview with Stephen Shore)
To: "Lydia Shelley" <rainbow.websites@...>
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 11:10 AM

 
Magic tricks, eh? Hmmm
http://abcnews. go.com/Health/ Autism/autism- diagnoses- treatments- found-study- magic/story? id=8988702

Autism Study Could Find Answers in Magic
Autistic People Lack Joint Attention Skills and Can't Be Fooled by Magicians' Tricks
By SUSAN DONALDSON JAMES
Nov. 10, 2009

[cid:image001.gif@ 01CA620C. 49753C70]

<http://abcnews. go.com/Health/ Autism/autism- diagnoses- treatments- found-study- magic/comments? type=story&id=8988702> The magician<http://abcnews. go.com/GMA/ Books/story? id=6636680&page=1> placed a coin atop an airtight rubber seal on a cup and -- abracadabra -- the shiny piece fell to the bottom of the cup.
But he didn't fool 8-year-old Stephen Shore, who was the only one among his fellow Boy Scouts<http://abcnews. go.com/video/ playerIndex? id=5059109> who saw through the magic trick.
"People didn't see the slit in the piece of rubber," said Shore, now 48 and an assistant professor of special education teacher at New York's Adelphi University<http://www.adelphi. edu/>. "I went up and just kind of pushed my finger into the slit."
Illusions<http://abcnews. go.com/Health/ EyeHealth/ optical-illusion s-eye-brain- agree/story? id=8455573> are the stock and trade of magicians but researchers at the Barrow Neurological Institute <http://www.thebarro w.org/index. htm> in Phoenix, Ariz., want to know why people like Shore, who fall along the autism spectrum<http://abcnews. go.com/Health/ AutismLiving/>, are not so easily fooled.
Shore has lived his entire life with autism, a neurological disorder often marked by joint-attention<http://abcnews. go.com/video/ playerIndex? id=5405579> deficits, or difficulty reading social signals; the same kind that a magician deliberately uses to throw attention away from the deception.
"Someone on the autism spectrum<http://abcnews. go.com/Health/ AutismOverview/ story?id= 5386747> is looking exactly where the magician doesn't want him to look," Shore said.
Scientists Susana Martinez-Conde<http://www.thebarro w.org/About_ Barrow/BiosIndex /189174?ssSource NodeId=5012473&ssSourceSiteId= 5012151> and Stephen Macknik<http://abcnews. go.com/Health/ Autism/autism- diagnoses- treatments- found-study- magic/www. macknik.neuralco rrelate.com>, co-authors of the upcoming book "Neuro Magic," are seeking funding to begin research that they hope will use magic as a tool for the diagnosis and treatment of autism -- despite some parents' fear that such research is too limited in scope.
"What magicians do is get people to attention with an incredible degree of depth and labor," said Macknik, director of Barrow's Laboratory of Behavioral Neurophysiology.
"Misdirection is a bit of a misnomer -- that the magician is trying to get you not to pay attention," he said. "But that's not the case. They want to control where you are especially paying attention."
An estimated 1 in 150 children -- or about 1 percent of all children -- are diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders<http://www.nimh. nih.gov/health/ topics/autism- spectrum- disorders- pervasive- developmental- disorders/ index.shtml>, a group of developmental disabilities that can cause significant social, communication and behavioral challenges, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention<http://www.cdc. gov/> in Atlanta.
The CDC considers autism an urgent public concern and says the sheer numbers warrant a concerted national response.
But, so far, there are no medical tests so doctors must rely on a child's behavior to make a diagnosis, usually by age 2. Early detection is key, experts say, so children can get intervention therapies<http://autism. healingthreshold s.com/news/ minnesota- autism-center- tailors->.
Martinez-Conde, the study's lead investigator, has devoted her research to eye movements in the field of visual neuroscience<http://www.medicaln ewstoday. com/articles/ 130274.php>.
Humans share information and grasp the thoughts and intentions of others through eye contact and gestures. Long before infants speak, they communicate and learn by following the gaze of others and use their own eye contact and gestures to direct those around them.
Autistics Have Joint-Attention Deficits
"Joint attention<http://abcnews. go.com/Health/ AutismSymptomsDi agnosis/story? id=5417337>" is a term psychologists use to indicate how people pay attention jointly in social situations.
When one person gestures or uses his or her eyes to point, the other's eyes reciprocate and follow, unconsciously. Magicians<http://abcnews. go.com/2020/ story?id= 7005903&page=1> take advantage of this instinct to covertly misdirect attention.
"When someone walks down the street and looks in the direction of something, they are going to get a circle of people looking up pretty soon," Martinez-Conde said.
Scientists think humans are hard-wired for these directional eye movements<http://www.ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/ pubmed/12677314>, which are important for survival.
"If I am attacked, I need to see what's going on," she said. "It's faster for me to see where you are looking than to wait for you to describe verbally what's going on.
"Autistic people don't respond to those cues. This deficit is one of the utmost characteristics and important predictors of how an autistic child will function as an adult cognitively and socially."
When measuring the eye movements of autistic children watching movies, researchers discovered that they don't look at the human faces, they look at random objects on the screen.
Magicians<http://abcnews. go.com/Technolog y/story?id= 5436871&page=1> use hand and eye gestures to create cognitive illusions, misdirecting attention away at the critical moment. If the brain isn't able to follow those gestures at the critical moment, the magician cannot manipulate the attention.
One example of a cognitive illusion is manipulating "inattentional blindness<http://smc.neuralco rrelate.com/ files/publicatio ns/martinez- conde_macknik_ sciam08.pdf>," Martinez-Conde said.
A classic example is a demonstration in which spectators are asked to watch a movie and count the passes of two basketball players -- one in a black shirt and one in white -- tossing the ball to each other.
"It's a difficult task," Martinez-Conde said. "The balls are flying past and you have to keep track constantly.'
But when a researcher in a gorilla suit walks across the stage beating his chest and walks away, most people are shocked that they didn't see the animal.
"A huge unexpected event occurs right in front of your gaze and goes completely unnoticed," she said.
It was at such a lecture that a person approached Martinez-Conde and said, "'You know what, I did see the gorilla but I have autism. I wonder if it has anything to do with it.' I knew then we had something important on our hands," she said
About a dozen magicians have joined the researchers, including Apollo Robbins<http://www.istealst uff.com/>, known as the "gentleman pickpocket."
He made his name in a Las Vegas act eight years ago for stealing the wallets of Secret Service<http://www.secretse rvice.gov/> agents protecting former President Jimmy Carter.
"They came to the show at Caesar's Palace and the manager told me I was not allowed to shake Carter's hand, and if I was going to steal anything, it would be from the Secret Service," he said. "I took their credentials and their keys."
Robbins, who was later asked to help police learn how thieves worked, estimated that he has successfully picked a quarter-million pockets in his career.
"My signature style is to tell people before I do it: "What time do you have? In three minutes, I'll be wearing your watch.
"When my hand came out of the pocket and I created a red herring with my hand," Robbins said. "I have to quickly gauge where there interest and attention is."
By a half-arch of the hand and eye movements, Robbins said, he "instinctively draws attention even if I told them it was going to happen."
Robbins can tell when someone in his audience has high-functioning autism, like Asperger syndrome, or attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder.
"I have to pull the attention more," he said. "It's like throwing a ball and trying to get the dog to go after the ball. You don't pretend, but you have to pay attention and account for and adjust what you are doing."
The researchers' findings may also lead to treatments for other neurological conditions like brain trauma<http://abcnews. go.com/Health/ Video/playerInde x?id=2908559>, attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder <http://abcnews. go.com/Health/ Video/playerInde x?id=3556619> and Alzheimer's disease.<http://abcnews. go.com/Health/ AlzheimersQuesti ons/story? id=7389982>
"The thing that is most intriguing is the potential ramifications for learning in general in individuals without autism," said Dr. Michael Noetzel<http://neuro. wustl.edu/ aboutus/facultyb iographies/ noetzel.htm>, chief of neurology at St. Louis Children's Hospital. "Anything that sheds light on how the brain allows us to learn is potentially useful."
"It's not help with magic tricks, it's helping them in other learning situations," he said of the possibilities.
Skeptics Worry About How to Help Autistic Kids
Stephen Shore<http://www.adelphi. edu/faculty/ profiles/ profile.php? PID=0476>, who was diagnosed with autism at age 2, when his speech stopped altogether, is excited that research might help.
For years, doctors thought his autism was psychosis and he was nearly institutionalized. But his enlightened parents gave him what is now called "intensive home-based early intervention," and today he teaches those who will teach children with autism.
He is an accomplished statistician and an accomplished musician. Most of the lingering effects are sensory: Shore can't bear tight clothing, bright inset lighting and loud sounds.
But his joint attention is the most aggravating, especially non-verbal gestures.
"We take for granted that people point in a direction and people follow suit," said Shore, who frequently travels as a member of the board of the Autism Society of America and often seeks directions at busy airports.
"I cannot determine exactly what they are pointing at; a doorway or a sign or something else," he said. "It seems to happen a lot, not picking up on something everyone else picks up on."
Still, there are skeptics who say children with autism are variable in their abilities and joint-attention research does not solve the larger question of how to help them.
"When I heard about the magic research, I rolled my eyes a bit," said Susan Etlinger, a San Francisco mother whose 6-year-old son was diagnosed with autism spectrum as a toddler.
"It's only one of the symptoms and the way in which it is manifested is so broad across children," said Etlinger, who writes the Family Room Blog<http://abcnews. go.com/Health/ Autism/autism- diagnoses- treatments- found-study- magic/www. familyroomblog. com>. "It could be anything from social quirkiness to something more intense.
"You could throw 50 kids into the same magic show, as well as typically developing kids, and you don't know what to conclude."
Children who have joint-attention deficits struggle with the stereotype that they "have no feelings and are robotic," Etlinger said.
"They're just not able to express them in a conventional way," she said. "They deserve respect and need to be met halfway and we need to have a more flexible understanding of what communication is."
Click here to see video clips from the Magic of Consciousness Symposium<http://www.macknik. neuralcorrelate. com/>.
For more information go to the Autism Society of America<http://www.autism- society.org/ site/PageServer> and Autism Speaks<http://www.autismsp eaks.org/>.


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#803 From: Josh in RI <typhoon1820@...>
Date: Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:45 pm
Subject: Re: To Josh 		typhoon1820
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
 
Hey Lydia, I don't know if you got the last email I sent from the phone... But I DO know what it's like to be abandoned and abused by your supposed loved ones... Those same ones are the ones that think I'm a pedophile because of my infantilism and regressions. I am too familiar with the lonliness and isolation of having to be alone for so many years. The Isolation and lonlness of who you thought were loved ones only to be betrayed, decieved and neglected because nobody ever really cared about you in the first place. I've been dealing with this painful hurt and isolation for over 20 years, and need to find a way to make it stop...
 
However, due to some recent events I have decided to try and avoid the JRC for a possible treatment center... Reason being is because I can not afford the price, or the time of being locked up there. I honestly think I'll be better off with being a baby again or a submissive slave... This way I can get what I'm looking for and not have to worry about NOT being let go, or getting too badly hurt. Larry has recommended a couple of Frued's books for me to read and begin to decifer my thoughts and desires. I've just started reading the first one and will let you guys know what I'm able to figure out and how I am relating to it.
 
It's my want and need for being dominated and wanting to be a helpless baby again that drives me to think the way I do about it and obsessing over it. Because though it's that release I'm looking for, I know those can be done on a short-term, temporary basis unlkie hospitals and places like the JRC...

Thanks again, and much love always...
Josh in RI


--- On Sat, 11/7/09, Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...> wrote:

From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Subject: [for-and-by-autistics] To Josh
To: for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 1:36 PM

 
I have discussed your desires (anonymously, of course) with the gentleman who is most serious about getting JRC closed down. He made the following remarks. BTW... when he says "Shelley" he's not talking about me.
  ************ ********* *
I think this guy doesn't fully appreciate that the GED is not the only method used nor even the worst. The psychological abuse is probably by far the worst. Being separated from those that love you and care for you is probably by far the worst. One of the reasons I feel so strongly about the JRC is the emotional isolation in such settings because for 5 years, I lived in a place separated from loved ones, unable to escape, all the while being psychologically and physically abused. It is one thing to be abused in a "day" setting and then getting reprieve at home during part of the day and quite another to live 24 hours and hundreds of miles away from safety. These kids and adults are prisoners with court supported abuse. They are completely isolated from human dignity, isolated from personal safety. It (the isolation) is hard to explain to folks that have never been held in an institution to understand. It's why I support folks like Shelley. I understand her past, I understand what it is like to feel this abandonment and I know what it is like to be abused while abandoned for "your own good". Its why I can suffer through the meltdowns she has with me, because fundamentally, I share with her a very dark part of a soul abandoned and abused. Its why I don't care when others don't agree with me (per Charles S.) on what is most important and immediate for autistic people suffering under such imprisonment and abuse. The isolation and the abuse destroys your soul. Prisoners of War and genocide can certainly understand this, but outside that context, I don't think many can fully and deeply, understand this type of isolation.



Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (5)
#802 From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Date: Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:10 pm
Subject: Autism Study Could Find Answers in Magic (Interview with Stephen Shore) 		ledheadlydia
Offline Offline
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Magic tricks, eh? Hmmm

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Autism/autism-diagnoses-treatments-found-study-magic/story?id=8988702

Autism Study Could Find Answers in Magic
Autistic People Lack Joint Attention Skills and Can't Be Fooled by Magicians' Tricks
By SUSAN DONALDSON JAMES
Nov. 10, 2009

[cid:image001.gif@...]

<http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Autism/autism-diagnoses-treatments-found-study-magic/comments?type=story&id=8988702> The magician<http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Books/story?id=6636680&page=1> placed a coin atop an airtight rubber seal on a cup and -- abracadabra -- the shiny piece fell to the bottom of the cup.
But he didn't fool 8-year-old Stephen Shore, who was the only one among his fellow Boy Scouts<http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=5059109> who saw through the magic trick.
"People didn't see the slit in the piece of rubber," said Shore, now 48 and an assistant professor of special education teacher at New York's Adelphi University<http://www.adelphi.edu/>. "I went up and just kind of pushed my finger into the slit."
Illusions<http://abcnews.go.com/Health/EyeHealth/optical-illusions-eye-brain-agree/story?id=8455573> are the stock and trade of magicians but researchers at the Barrow Neurological Institute <http://www.thebarrow.org/index.htm> in Phoenix, Ariz., want to know why people like Shore, who fall along the autism spectrum<http://abcnews.go.com/Health/AutismLiving/>, are not so easily fooled.
Shore has lived his entire life with autism, a neurological disorder often marked by joint-attention<http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=5405579> deficits, or difficulty reading social signals; the same kind that a magician deliberately uses to throw attention away from the deception.
"Someone on the autism spectrum<http://abcnews.go.com/Health/AutismOverview/story?id=5386747> is looking exactly where the magician doesn't want him to look," Shore said.
Scientists Susana Martinez-Conde<http://www.thebarrow.org/About_Barrow/BiosIndex/189174?ssSourceNodeId=5012473&ssSourceSiteId=5012151> and Stephen Macknik<http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Autism/autism-diagnoses-treatments-found-study-magic/www.macknik.neuralcorrelate.com>, co-authors of the upcoming book "Neuro Magic," are seeking funding to begin research that they hope will use magic as a tool for the diagnosis and treatment of autism -- despite some parents' fear that such research is too limited in scope.
"What magicians do is get people to attention with an incredible degree of depth and labor," said Macknik, director of Barrow's Laboratory of Behavioral Neurophysiology.
"Misdirection is a bit of a misnomer -- that the magician is trying to get you not to pay attention," he said. "But that's not the case. They want to control where you are especially paying attention."
An estimated 1 in 150 children -- or about 1 percent of all children -- are diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders<http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/autism-spectrum-disorders-pervasive-developmental-disorders/index.shtml>, a group of developmental disabilities that can cause significant social, communication and behavioral challenges, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention<http://www.cdc.gov/> in Atlanta.
The CDC considers autism an urgent public concern and says the sheer numbers warrant a concerted national response.
But, so far, there are no medical tests so doctors must rely on a child's behavior to make a diagnosis, usually by age 2. Early detection is key, experts say, so children can get intervention therapies<http://autism.healingthresholds.com/news/minnesota-autism-center-tailors->.
Martinez-Conde, the study's lead investigator, has devoted her research to eye movements in the field of visual neuroscience<http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/130274.php>.
Humans share information and grasp the thoughts and intentions of others through eye contact and gestures. Long before infants speak, they communicate and learn by following the gaze of others and use their own eye contact and gestures to direct those around them.
Autistics Have Joint-Attention Deficits
"Joint attention<http://abcnews.go.com/Health/AutismSymptomsDiagnosis/story?id=5417337>" is a term psychologists use to indicate how people pay attention jointly in social situations.
When one person gestures or uses his or her eyes to point, the other's eyes reciprocate and follow, unconsciously. Magicians<http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=7005903&page=1> take advantage of this instinct to covertly misdirect attention.
"When someone walks down the street and looks in the direction of something, they are going to get a circle of people looking up pretty soon," Martinez-Conde said.
Scientists think humans are hard-wired for these directional eye movements<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12677314>, which are important for survival.
"If I am attacked, I need to see what's going on," she said. "It's faster for me to see where you are looking than to wait for you to describe verbally what's going on.
"Autistic people don't respond to those cues. This deficit is one of the utmost characteristics and important predictors of how an autistic child will function as an adult cognitively and socially."
When measuring the eye movements of autistic children watching movies, researchers discovered that they don't look at the human faces, they look at random objects on the screen.
Magicians<http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=5436871&page=1> use hand and eye gestures to create cognitive illusions, misdirecting attention away at the critical moment. If the brain isn't able to follow those gestures at the critical moment, the magician cannot manipulate the attention.
One example of a cognitive illusion is manipulating "inattentional blindness<http://smc.neuralcorrelate.com/files/publications/martinez-conde_macknik_sciam08.pdf>," Martinez-Conde said.
A classic example is a demonstration in which spectators are asked to watch a movie and count the passes of two basketball players -- one in a black shirt and one in white -- tossing the ball to each other.
"It's a difficult task," Martinez-Conde said. "The balls are flying past and you have to keep track constantly.'
But when a researcher in a gorilla suit walks across the stage beating his chest and walks away, most people are shocked that they didn't see the animal.
"A huge unexpected event occurs right in front of your gaze and goes completely unnoticed," she said.
It was at such a lecture that a person approached Martinez-Conde and said, "'You know what, I did see the gorilla but I have autism. I wonder if it has anything to do with it.' I knew then we had something important on our hands," she said
About a dozen magicians have joined the researchers, including Apollo Robbins<http://www.istealstuff.com/>, known as the "gentleman pickpocket."
He made his name in a Las Vegas act eight years ago for stealing the wallets of Secret Service<http://www.secretservice.gov/> agents protecting former President Jimmy Carter.
"They came to the show at Caesar's Palace and the manager told me I was not allowed to shake Carter's hand, and if I was going to steal anything, it would be from the Secret Service," he said. "I took their credentials and their keys."
Robbins, who was later asked to help police learn how thieves worked, estimated that he has successfully picked a quarter-million pockets in his career.
"My signature style is to tell people before I do it: "What time do you have? In three minutes, I'll be wearing your watch.
"When my hand came out of the pocket and I created a red herring with my hand," Robbins said. "I have to quickly gauge where there interest and attention is."
By a half-arch of the hand and eye movements, Robbins said, he "instinctively draws attention even if I told them it was going to happen."
Robbins can tell when someone in his audience has high-functioning autism, like Asperger syndrome, or attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder.
"I have to pull the attention more," he said. "It's like throwing a ball and trying to get the dog to go after the ball. You don't pretend, but you have to pay attention and account for and adjust what you are doing."
The researchers' findings may also lead to treatments for other neurological conditions like brain trauma<http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Video/playerIndex?id=2908559>, attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder <http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Video/playerIndex?id=3556619> and Alzheimer's disease.<http://abcnews.go.com/Health/AlzheimersQuestions/story?id=7389982>
"The thing that is most intriguing is the potential ramifications for learning in general in individuals without autism," said Dr. Michael Noetzel<http://neuro.wustl.edu/aboutus/facultybiographies/noetzel.htm>, chief of neurology at St. Louis Children's Hospital. "Anything that sheds light on how the brain allows us to learn is potentially useful."
"It's not help with magic tricks, it's helping them in other learning situations," he said of the possibilities.
Skeptics Worry About How to Help Autistic Kids
Stephen Shore<http://www.adelphi.edu/faculty/profiles/profile.php?PID=0476>, who was diagnosed with autism at age 2, when his speech stopped altogether, is excited that research might help.
For years, doctors thought his autism was psychosis and he was nearly institutionalized. But his enlightened parents gave him what is now called "intensive home-based early intervention," and today he teaches those who will teach children with autism.
He is an accomplished statistician and an accomplished musician. Most of the lingering effects are sensory: Shore can't bear tight clothing, bright inset lighting and loud sounds.
But his joint attention is the most aggravating, especially non-verbal gestures.
"We take for granted that people point in a direction and people follow suit," said Shore, who frequently travels as a member of the board of the Autism Society of America and often seeks directions at busy airports.
"I cannot determine exactly what they are pointing at; a doorway or a sign or something else," he said. "It seems to happen a lot, not picking up on something everyone else picks up on."
Still, there are skeptics who say children with autism are variable in their abilities and joint-attention research does not solve the larger question of how to help them.
"When I heard about the magic research, I rolled my eyes a bit," said Susan Etlinger, a San Francisco mother whose 6-year-old son was diagnosed with autism spectrum as a toddler.
"It's only one of the symptoms and the way in which it is manifested is so broad across children," said Etlinger, who writes the Family Room Blog<http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Autism/autism-diagnoses-treatments-found-study-magic/www.familyroomblog.com>. "It could be anything from social quirkiness to something more intense.
"You could throw 50 kids into the same magic show, as well as typically developing kids, and you don't know what to conclude."
Children who have joint-attention deficits struggle with the stereotype that they "have no feelings and are robotic," Etlinger said.
"They're just not able to express them in a conventional way," she said. "They deserve respect and need to be met halfway and we need to have a more flexible understanding of what communication is."
Click here to see video clips from the Magic of Consciousness Symposium<http://www.macknik.neuralcorrelate.com/>.
For more information go to the Autism Society of America<http://www.autism-society.org/site/PageServer> and Autism Speaks<http://www.autismspeaks.org/>.


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#801 From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Date: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:42 pm
Subject: NYTimes.com: After Setbacks, Small Successes for Gene Therapy 		ledheadlydia
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 


The New York Times E-mail This
This page was sent to you by: mizlydia@...

HEALTH | November 06, 2009
After Setbacks, Small Successes for Gene Therapy
By GINA KOLATA
Three recent successes, though small, prompted hopes among scientists that a still-experimental idea for correcting genetic disorders might be back.
Advertisement

Amelia stars two-time Academy Award winner Hilary Swank as Amelia Earhart, the legendary aviatrix. Directed by Mira Nair.
NOW PLAYING
Click here to view trailer


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#800 From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Date: Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:34 am
Subject: Re: Re: OT (sort of...) My new song: "It Ain't Rocket Science" 		ledheadlydia
Offline Offline
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LOL thanks... I guess I should feature my pets in more videos. As you can see, I'm not much to look at... maybe next time I'll keep out of it.
; )

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 6:07 PM, larryd552002 <larryd552002@...> wrote:



--- In for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com, Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...> wrote:
>
> Please feel free to comment! Nobody ever comments on my videos...
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1liImBSA-_s&feature=player_embedded
>
> --
> Lydia Glider-Shelley
>

That was cool! Ingenious lyrics and, if I'm not mistaken, an original melody that's really catchy.

I liked the way the dog walked right into the video and hammed it up, by the way.

Yours,
Larry




--
Lydia Glider-Shelley
Broward County Special Needs Parents Examiner
www.examiner.com
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
WE CAN DO THIS
http://www.nopom.info
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
Hear the REAL Voices of Autism:
www.iamautism.org
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
~~Mahatma Gandhi

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#799 From: "larryd552002" <larryd552002@...>
Date: Mon Nov 9, 2009 11:21 pm
Subject: New Members 		larryd552002
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Send Email Send Email
  
I just noticed we got two new members.  Yay.  Now we have 21.  This is a going
concern all of a sudden.

I hope you new members like it here.  I'm sure glad to have you.

-Larry

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)
#798 From: "larryd552002" <larryd552002@...>
Date: Mon Nov 9, 2009 11:07 pm
Subject: Re: OT (sort of...) My new song: "It Ain't Rocket Science" 		larryd552002
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
--- In for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com, Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...>
wrote:
>
> Please feel free to comment! Nobody ever comments on my videos...
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1liImBSA-_s&feature=player_embedded
>
> --
> Lydia Glider-Shelley
>

That was cool!  Ingenious lyrics and, if I'm not mistaken, an original melody
that's really catchy.

I liked the way the dog walked right into the video and hammed it up, by the
way.

Yours,
            Larry

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (3)
#797 From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Date: Sat Nov 7, 2009 6:36 pm
Subject: To Josh 		ledheadlydia
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
I have discussed your desires (anonymously, of course) with the gentleman who is most serious about getting JRC closed down. He made the following remarks. BTW... when he says "Shelley" he's not talking about me.
**********************

I think this guy doesn't fully appreciate that the GED is not the only method used nor even the worst. The psychological abuse is probably by far the worst. Being separated from those that love you and care for you is probably by far the worst. One of the reasons I feel so strongly about the JRC is the emotional isolation in such settings because for 5 years, I lived in a place separated from loved ones, unable to escape, all the while being psychologically and physically abused. It is one thing to be abused in a "day" setting and then getting reprieve at home during part of the day and quite another to live 24 hours and hundreds of miles away from safety. These kids and adults are prisoners with court supported abuse. They are completely isolated from human dignity, isolated from personal safety. It (the isolation) is hard to explain to folks that have never been held in an institution to understand. It's why I support folks like Shelley. I understand her past, I understand what it is like to feel this abandonment and I know what it is like to be abused while abandoned for "your own good". Its why I can suffer through the meltdowns she has with me, because fundamentally, I share with her a very dark part of a soul abandoned and abused. Its why I don't care when others don't agree with me (per Charles S.) on what is most important and immediate for autistic people suffering under such imprisonment and abuse. The isolation and the abuse destroys your soul. Prisoners of War and genocide can certainly understand this, but outside that context, I don't think many can fully and deeply, understand this type of isolation.



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