for-and-by-autistics : Messages : 296-327 of 852

I've seen this before and am not impressed.

How do they explain people who have bipolar and AS like me?

Also i seem to notice that often both mother and child seem to be doing well. We have plenty of nutrition to go around.

Nora

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (7)

#326

From: "Larry D. Lyons" <larryd552002@...>
Date: Mon Mar 9, 2009 7:46 pm
Subject: Re: Fwd: In a Novel Theory of Mental Disorders, Parents' Genes Are in Competition

larryd552002

Online Now

>
> Bernard Crespi of Simon Fraser University and a fellow researcher propose
> that a tug of war between genes can tip brain development.
>

That was really thoughtful of you Lydia!  You know I love when Freud is
mentioned in a positive way.  As for this particular study, believe it or not,
it has a precedent.  A later pioneer in psychoanalysis, Melanie Klein, came up
with a similar hypothesis regarding predisposition to psychosis. She called
these predispositions "positions."  I don't fully understand it, but it sure is
similar to this study.


I especially love the implication that everybody is either psychotic or
autistic!  It's so true!

Yours,
            Larry

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (7)

#325

From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Date: Mon Mar 9, 2009 2:32 pm
Subject: Fwd: In a Novel Theory of Mental Disorders, Parents' Genes Are in Competition

ledheadlydia

Offline

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/11/health/research/11brain.html?_r=2&ref=science&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

Thought Larry (and others) would enjoy this...

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Pat Schissel <pats@...>
Date: Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 5:02 PM
Subject: In a Novel Theory of Mental Disorders, Parents' Genes Are in Competition
To: AHA-AS-PDD@yahoogroups.com

Fyi

�

In a Novel Theory of Mental Disorders, Parents� Genes Are in Competition

�

Bernard Crespi of Simon Fraser University and a fellow researcher propose that a tug of war between genes can tip brain development.

By BENEDICT CAREY

Published: November 10, 2008

Two scientists, drawing on their own powers of observation and a creative reading of recent genetic findings, have published a sweeping theory of brain development that would change the way mental disorders like autism and schizophrenia are understood.

The theory emerged in part from thinking about events other than mutations that can change gene behavior. And it suggests entirely new avenues of research, which, even if they prove the theory to be flawed, are likely to provide new insights into the biology of mental disease.

At a time when the search for the genetic glitches behind brain disorders has become mired in uncertain and complex findings, the new idea provides psychiatry with perhaps its grandest working theory since Freud, and one that is grounded in work at the forefront of science. The two researchers � Bernard Crespi, a biologist at Simon Fraser University in Canada, and Christopher Badcock, a sociologist at the London School of Economics, who are both outsiders to the field of behavior genetics � have spelled out their theory in a series of recent journal articles.

�The reality, and I think both of the authors would agree, is that many of the details of their theory are going to be wrong; and it is, at this point, just a theory,� said Dr. Matthew Belmonte, a neuroscientist at Cornell University. �But the idea is plausible. And it gives researchers a great opportunity for hypothesis generation, which I think can shake up the field in good ways.�

Their idea is, in broad outline, straightforward. Dr. Crespi and Dr. Badcock propose that an evolutionary tug of war between genes from the father�s sperm and the mother�s egg can, in effect, tip brain development in one of two ways. A strong bias toward the father pushes a developing brain along the autistic spectrum, toward a fascination with objects, patterns, mechanical systems, at the expense of social development. A bias toward the mother moves the growing brain along what the researchers call the psychotic spectrum, toward hypersensitivity to mood, their own and others�. This, according to the theory, increases a child�s risk of developing schizophrenia later on, as well as mood problems like bipolar disorder and depression.

In short: autism and schizophrenia represent opposite ends of a spectrum that includes most, if not all, psychiatric and developmental brain disorders. The theory has no use for psychiatry�s many separate categories for disorders, and it would give genetic findings an entirely new dimension.

�The empirical implications are absolutely huge,� Dr. Crespi said in a phone interview. �If you get a gene linked to autism, for instance, you�d want to look at that same gene for schizophrenia; if it�s a social brain gene, then it would be expected to have opposite effects on these disorders, whether gene expression was turned up or turned down.�

The theory leans heavily on the work of David Haig of Harvard. It was Dr. Haig who argued in the 1990s that pregnancy was in part a biological struggle for resources between the mother and unborn child. On one side, natural selection should favor mothers who limit the nutritional costs of pregnancy and have more offspring; on the other, it should also favor fathers whose offspring maximize the nutrients they receive during gestation, setting up a direct conflict.

The evidence that this struggle is being waged at the level of individual genes is accumulating, if mostly circumstantial. For example, the fetus inherits from both parents a gene called IGF2, which promotes growth. But too much growth taxes the mother, and in normal development her IGF2 gene is chemically marked, or �imprinted,� and biologically silenced. If her gene is active, it causes a disorder of overgrowth, in which the fetus�s birth weight swells, on average, to 50 percent above normal.

Biologists call this gene imprinting an epigenetic, or �on-genetic,� effect, meaning that it changes the behavior of the gene without altering its chemical composition. It is not a matter of turning a gene on or off, which cells do in the course of normal development. Instead it is a matter of muffling a gene, for instance, with a chemical marker that makes it hard for the cell to read the genetic code; or altering the shape of the DNA molecule, or what happens to the proteins it produces. To illustrate how such genetic reshaping can give rise to behavioral opposites � the yin and yang that their theory proposes � Dr. Crespi and Dr. Badcock point to a remarkable group of children who are just that: opposites, as different temperamentally as Snoopy and Charlie Brown, as a lively Gaugin and a brooding Goya.

Those with the genetic disorder called Angelman, or �happy puppet,� syndrome practically dance through the day, have difficulty communicating and are demanding of caregivers. Those born with a genetic problem known as Prader-Willi syndrome are placid, compliant and as youngsters low maintenance.

Yet these two disorders, which turn up in about one of 10,000 newborns, stem from disruptions of the same genetic region on chromosome 15. If the father�s genes dominate in this location, the child develops Angelman syndrome; if the mother�s do, the result is Prader-Willi syndrome, as Dr. Haig and others have noted. The former is associated with autism, and the latter with mood problems and psychosis � just as the new theory predicts.

Emotional problems like depression, anxiety and bipolar disorder, seen through this lens, appear on Mom�s side of the teeter-totter, with schizophrenia, while Asperger�s syndrome and other social deficits are on Dad�s.

It was Dr. Badcock who noticed that some problems associated with autism, like a failure to meet another�s gaze, are direct contrasts to those found in people with schizophrenia, who often believe they are being watched. Where children with autism appear blind to others� thinking and intentions, people with schizophrenia see intention and meaning everywhere, in their delusions. The idea expands on the �extreme male brain� theory of autism proposed by Dr. Simon Baron-Cohen of Cambridge.

�Think of the grandiosity in schizophrenia, how some people think that they are Jesus, or Napoleon, or omnipotent,� Dr. Crespi said, �and then contrast this with the underdeveloped sense of self in autism. Autistic kids often talk about themselves in the third person.�

Such observations and biological evidence are hardly enough to overturn current thinking about disorders as distinct as autism and schizophrenia, experts agree. �I think his work is often brilliant,� Dr. Stephen Scherer, of the University of Toronto and the Hospital for Sick Children, said by e-mail message of Dr. Crespi. At the same time, Dr. Scherer added, �For autism there will not be one unifying theory but perhaps for a proportion of families there are underlying common variants� of genes that together cause the disorder.

The theory also does not fit all of the various quirks of autism and schizophrenia on flip sides of the same behavioral coin. The father of biological psychiatry, Emil Kraepelin, in the late 1800s made a distinction between mood problems, like depression and bipolar disorder, and the thought distortions of schizophrenia � a distinction that, to most psychiatrists, still holds up. Many people with schizophrenia, moreover, show little emotion; they would seem to be off the psychosis spectrum altogether, as the new theory describes it.

But experts familiar with their theory say that the two scientists have, at minimum, infused the field with a shot of needed imagination and demonstrated the power of thinking outside the gene. For just as a gene can carry a mark from its parent of origin, so it can be imprinted by that parent�s own experience.

The study of such markers should have a �significant impact on our understanding of mental health conditions,� said Dr. Bhismadev Chakrabarti, of the Autism Research Center at the University of Cambridge, �as, in some ways, they represent the first environmental influence on the expression of the genes.�

�

Pat

�

Patricia R. Schissel, LMSW

President, AHA

Asperger Syndrome and High Functioning Autism Association (AHA), Inc.

PO Box 916

Bethpage, NY 11714

516.470.0360 p

www.ahaNY.org

pats@...

�

Not a member of AHA? Join AHA today and receive our newsletter and discounts for AHA conferences and workshops. Your membership will help ensure that AHA is here to answer your questions and provide support to and referrals for individuals with AS/HFA and related conditions and their families. To join AHA, go to http://www.ahany.org/ab_app.htm�

�

--
Lydia Shelley
www.rainbow-websites.com
<3 �<3 �<3 �<3 �<3 �<3 �<3
"Every politician on earth claims to support freedom. The problem is so few of them understand the simple meaning of the word."
~Ron Paul
<3 �<3 �<3 �<3 �<3 �<3 �<3
WE CAN DO THIS
http://www.nopom.info
<3 �<3 �<3 �<3 �<3 �<3 �<3
Autism/Aspergers T-Shirts & Designs
http://www.cafepress.com/autismrules
<3 �<3 �<3 �<3 �<3 �<3 �<3
Follow your passion, and success will follow you. �~Arthur Buddhold

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (7)

#324

From: larry Lyons <larryd552002@...>
Date: Mon Mar 9, 2009 3:27 pm
Subject: Re: Evidence of the link between trauma and infantile autism.

larryd552002

Online Now

--- On Mon, 3/9/09, Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...> wrote:

From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Subject: Re: [for-and-by-autistics] Evidence of the link between trauma and
infantile autism.
To: for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 6:07 AM

I think they're confusing PTSD with ASD here.

-----

That was the point I was making when I said the website is instructive. There is
a lot to think about. The big revelation is that there isn't really a big
difference *except* in the patient's age when the trauma occurs.  If it happens
at birth, the personality essentially gets wired in to be autistic.  An adult is
much more resilient so the psychoogical damage is curable.

The study found the same correlation of difficult birth and autism that I have
been insisting on, but even more telling is the conclusion about the ages of the
onset.  If an eight year old child suffers trauma, for instance, he will keep
the personality of an eight-year-old even when he becomes an adult. It can be
assumed, then, that a patient who suffered trauma as an adult would simply have
the physical and emotional symptoms of autism but without the juvenile
personality associated with autism. In other words, someone with PTSD is
autistic but without the social interaction issues.

Larry

On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 3:29 PM, Larry D. Lyons <larryd552002@ yahoo.com> wrote:

#323

From: Lydia Glider-Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Date: Mon Mar 9, 2009 1:07 pm
Subject: Re: Evidence of the link between trauma and infantile autism.

ledheadlydia

Offline

I think they're confusing PTSD with ASD here.

On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 3:29 PM, Larry D. Lyons <larryd552002@...> wrote:

I just stumbled across this website. It's instructive, to say the
least:

http://www.autism-pdd.net/testdump/test10243.htm

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (2)

#322

From: larry Lyons <larryd552002@...>
Date: Fri Mar 6, 2009 12:44 am
Subject: A beautiful song for Channing

larryd552002

Online Now

--- On Thu, 3/5/09, channing Ashbaugh <channing28270@...> wrote:

From: channing Ashbaugh <channing28270@...>
Subject: Re: [for-and-by-autistics] Re: Hello Everyone
To: for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 6:59 AM

What would you like to know about me.
�
channing

---

Hi Channing,

I found a beautiful song just for you:

Getting to Know You

[ANNA]

  Getting to know you,
Getting to know all about you.
Getting to like you,
Getting to hope you like me.

Getting to know you,
Putting it my way,
But nicely,
You are precisely,
My cup of tea.

[ANNA AND THE MOTHERS]

Getting to know you,
Getting to know all about you.
Getting to like you,
Getting to hope you like me.

Getting to know you,
Putting it my way,
But nicely,
You are precisely,

[ANNA]

My cup of tea.

[ALL]

Getting to know you,
Getting to feel free and easy
When I am with you,
Getting to know what to say

Haven't you noticed
Suddenly I'm bright and breezy?
Because of all the beautiful and new
Things I'm learning about you
Day by day.

Getting to know you,
Getting to feel free and easy
When I am with you,
Getting to know what to say

Haven't you noticed
Suddenly I'm bright and breezy?
Because of all the beautiful and new
Things I'm learning about you
Day .. by ... day.

#321

From: "Kathy Mackin" <kathy0038mackin@...>
Date: Thu Mar 5, 2009 5:53 pm
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone

kathy0038mackin

Offline

Nora,

I am with you on "the hectic stuff"!!!!!

I had registered for 2 classes this semester an English class (it is the last of
my REQUIRED English classes, yea) and a Film appreciation class (that would
cover one of my Art requirements) but it turned out that they were both
"critical thinking" classes ..... NOT A GOOD IDEA!I love movies, I love reading,
and I love writing, but I do not love having 2 '500 word' papers due each week.

I do not love having to look at only certain aspects of a movie so that I can
write about it (and wind up missing the 'whole' movie).

Now my English class has finished all the 500 word papers and we are moving on
to the 1500 papers. We start reading Othello next week (groan). So, I won't have
'essays' due each week, instead it will be at least 500 words a week answering
'reading questions'.

I really like both of my professors, but the homework leaves very little time
for anything else ..... including cleaning my apartment.

I got the notification in the mail that my annual 'housing' recertification
inspection is a week from Friday (the 13th). For me this is an automatic 'freak
out', but this year is even worse. On top of the normal mess from too much
school, I lost a few major pieces of furniture that belonged to a friend. I have
had these for a few years because he didn't have room for them where he lived.
He bought a mobile home and came and took them away a couple of weeks ago. So
now I have stacks and stacks of books all over the apartment that have no home
...... along with all the knick-knacks that have no homes anymore. Then my
vacuum cleaner died on me.

Nora, I am absolutely with you on the "hectic stuff"!!!!!!!

kathy
redwood city, ca

--- In for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com, "Nora" <newnoz@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Channing,
>
> I would like to get to know you also.
>
> Are you shy or afraid of us? Perhaps you've had a bad experience with a group?
Or perhaps it is a new experience and you are not sure how it works.
>
> All of us have been there at one time.
>
> I am more comfortable writing to a person i know from the group than a person
i do not know. Could you give it a try? I know it is hard to do new things, at
least it is hard for me and i am more of a risk taker than many people. It is
your decision.
>
> Meanwhile to the rest of the group: Sorry i have not been around much but my
life has taken one of its turns. I have to take things as they come and do the
best i can. I am hoping to get more involved but it will have to work with a
hectic schedule. I am not sure if this will continue as i have a low tolerance
to too much of that hectic stuff.
>
> Cyberhugs, Nora
>

#320

From: channing Ashbaugh <channing28270@...>
Date: Thu Mar 5, 2009 2:59 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Hello Everyone

channing28270

Offline

What would you like to know about me.

channing

--- On Wed, 3/4/09, Nora <newnoz@...> wrote:

From: Nora <newnoz@...>
Subject: [for-and-by-autistics] Re: Hello Everyone
To: for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 11:52 PM

Hi Channing,

I would like to get to know you also.

Are you shy or afraid of us? Perhaps you've had a bad experience with a group? Or perhaps it is a new experience and you are not sure how it works.

All of us have been there at one time.

I am more comfortable writing to a person i know from the group than a person i do not know. Could you give it a try? I know it is hard to do new things, at least it is hard for me and i am more of a risk taker than many people. It is your decision.

Meanwhile to the rest of the group: Sorry i have not been around much but my life has taken one of its turns. I have to take things as they come and do the best i can. I am hoping to get more involved but it will have to work with a hectic schedule. I am not sure if this will continue as i have a low tolerance to too much of that hectic stuff.

Cyberhugs, Nora

--- In for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com, larry Lyons <larryd552002@...> wrote:
>
> Are you asking people to mail you letters?

> You know, as a member of this group you can send private e-mails to all the other members. There are eighteen of us.

I hope you don't get offended if anyone doesn't reply, though. If people know you they might be crazy about you, but nobody around here really knows you because you don't post to the group. I sure would like it if you posted to the group--but that's just me. It's because I'm the group owner.

Yours,
Larry
>
> --- On Wed, 3/4/09, Channing Ashbaugh <channing28270@...> wrote:

> From: Channing Ashbaugh <channing28270@...>
> Subject: [for-and-by-autistics] Hello Everyone
> To: for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 1:53 PM

> Hello Everyone I am looking for these people who said that they would write me and be my pen pal but is not writeing me back :
>
> 1.Gwen Martinez
> 2.Jane Halladay
> 3. Marion Perratore
> 4. Merilee Lawing
> 5. Liz Hensley
> 6. Pam O'Connor
> 7. Ashleigh Symone Bonner
> 8. Andy Fry
> 9. Kelli Roche
> 10. Christine Venuti
> 11. Paris
> 12. Tatum Currell
> 13. Angie Soper
> 14.Kelli Vondrachek
> 15. Jessica Alba
> 16. Karen Ross
> 17. Samantha Bower
> 18. RoseAnn Fischer
> 19. Chandra Nageswarn
> 20. Kristina DeJardins
> 21. Nancy Sierchio
> 22. Rebecca Loos
> 23. Kelli Roche
> 24. Laura Rolen
>
> I would like to hear from you if you want to write me or be my pen pal I keep on sending you letters that I am worried you are not receiveing from me.
> Please e-mail me at the e-mails below:
>
> CHANNING28105@ LYCOS.COM
> CHANNING28270@ GMAIL.COM
> CHANCHAN79@KITTYMAI L.COM

> CHANNING
>

------------------------------------

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<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
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#319

From: "Nora" <newnoz@...>
Date: Thu Mar 5, 2009 4:52 am
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone

newn0z

Offline

Hi Channing,

I would like to get to know you also.

Are you shy or afraid of us? Perhaps you've had a bad experience with a group?
Or perhaps it is a new experience and you are not sure how it works.

All of us have been there at one time.

I am more comfortable writing to a person i know from the group than a person i
do not know. Could you give it a try? I know it is hard to do new things, at
least it is hard for me and i am more of a risk taker than many people. It is
your decision.

Meanwhile to the rest of the group: Sorry i have not been around much but my
life has taken one of its turns. I have to take things as they come and do the
best i can. I am hoping to get more involved but it will have to work with a
hectic schedule. I am not sure if this will continue as i have a low tolerance
to too much of that hectic stuff.

Cyberhugs, Nora

--- In for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com, larry Lyons <larryd552002@...>
wrote:
>
> Are you asking people to mail you letters?

> You know, as a member of this group you can send private e-mails to all the
other members. There are eighteen of us.

I hope you don't get offended if anyone doesn't reply, though. If people know
you they might be crazy about you, but nobody around here really knows you
because you don't post to the group. I sure would like it if you posted to the
group--but that's just me. It's because I'm the group owner.

Yours,
  Larry
>
> --- On Wed, 3/4/09, Channing Ashbaugh <channing28270@...> wrote:

> From: Channing Ashbaugh <channing28270@...>
> Subject: [for-and-by-autistics] Hello Everyone
> To: for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 1:53 PM

> Hello Everyone I am looking for these people who said that they would write me
and be my pen pal but is not writeing me back :
>
> 1.Gwen Martinez
> 2.Jane Halladay
> 3. Marion Perratore
> 4. Merilee Lawing
> 5. Liz Hensley
> 6. Pam O'Connor
> 7. Ashleigh Symone Bonner
> 8. Andy Fry
> 9. Kelli Roche
> 10. Christine Venuti
> 11. Paris
> 12. Tatum Currell
> 13. Angie Soper
> 14.Kelli Vondrachek
> 15. Jessica Alba
> 16. Karen Ross
> 17. Samantha Bower
> 18. RoseAnn Fischer
> 19. Chandra Nageswarn
> 20. Kristina DeJardins
> 21. Nancy Sierchio
> 22. Rebecca Loos
> 23. Kelli Roche
> 24. Laura Rolen
>
> I would like to hear from you if you want to write me or be my pen pal I keep
on sending you letters that I am worried you are not receiveing from me.
> Please e-mail me at the e-mails below:
>
> CHANNING28105@ LYCOS.COM
> CHANNING28270@ GMAIL.COM
> CHANCHAN79@KITTYMAI L.COM

> CHANNING
>

#318

From: larry Lyons <larryd552002@...>
Date: Thu Mar 5, 2009 2:38 am
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone

larryd552002

Online Now

Are you asking people to mail you letters?

You know, as a member of this group you can send private e-mails to all the other members. There are eighteen of us.

I hope you don't get offended if anyone doesn't reply, though. If people know you they might be crazy about you, but nobody around here really knows you because you don't post to the group. I sure would like it if you posted to the group--but that's just me. It's because I'm the group owner.

Yours,

Larry

--- On Wed, 3/4/09, Channing Ashbaugh <channing28270@...> wrote:

From: Channing Ashbaugh <channing28270@...>
Subject: [for-and-by-autistics] Hello Everyone
To: for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 1:53 PM

Hello Everyone I am looking for these people who said that they would write me and be my pen pal but is not writeing me back :

1.Gwen Martinez
2.Jane Halladay
3. Marion Perratore
4. Merilee Lawing
5. Liz Hensley
6. Pam O'Connor
7. Ashleigh Symone Bonner
8. Andy Fry
9. Kelli Roche
10. Christine Venuti
11. Paris
12. Tatum Currell
13. Angie Soper
14.Kelli Vondrachek
15. Jessica Alba
16. Karen Ross
17. Samantha Bower
18. RoseAnn Fischer
19. Chandra Nageswarn
20. Kristina DeJardins
21. Nancy Sierchio
22. Rebecca Loos
23. Kelli Roche
24. Laura Rolen

I would like to hear from you if you want to write me or be my pen pal I keep on sending you letters that I am worried you are not receiveing from me.
Please e-mail me at the e-mails below:

CHANNING28105@ LYCOS.COM
CHANNING28270@ GMAIL.COM
CHANCHAN79@KITTYMAI L.COM

CHANNING

#317

From: "Channing Ashbaugh" <channing28270@...>
Date: Wed Mar 4, 2009 9:53 pm
Subject: Hello Everyone

channing28270

Offline

Hello Everyone I am looking for these people who said that they would write me
and be my pen pal but is not writeing me back :

1.Gwen Martinez
2.Jane Halladay
3. Marion Perratore
4. Merilee Lawing
5. Liz Hensley
6. Pam O'Connor
7. Ashleigh Symone Bonner
8. Andy Fry
9. Kelli Roche
10. Christine Venuti
11. Paris
12. Tatum Currell
13. Angie Soper
14.Kelli Vondrachek
15. Jessica Alba
16. Karen Ross
17. Samantha Bower
18. RoseAnn Fischer
19. Chandra Nageswarn
20. Kristina DeJardins
21. Nancy Sierchio
22. Rebecca Loos
23. Kelli Roche
24. Laura Rolen

I would like to hear from you if you want to write me or be my pen pal I keep on
sending you letters that I am worried you are not receiveing from me.
Please e-mail me at the e-mails below:

CHANNING28105@...
CHANNING28270@...
CHANCHAN79@...

CHANNING

#316

From: larry Lyons <larryd552002@...>
Date: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:49 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Check out my Facebook profile

larryd552002

Online Now

My profile has no picture. Also, the last person to post on my billboard was Flora Crew. She was saying she liked one of my posts on Free-Associations.

Yours,

Larry
--- On Mon, 2/23/09, Kathy Mackin <kathy0038mackin@...> wrote:

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (3)

#315

From: "Kathy Mackin" <kathy0038mackin@...>
Date: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:38 pm
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone

kathy0038mackin

Offline

Hi Channing,

I just sent you a friend request on Facebook

kathy
redwood city, ca

--- In for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com, "Channing Ashbaugh"
<channing28270@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Everyone.  I have High functioning autism or aspergers
> syndrome.I am a female. Some of my hobbies and interests include
> pets, sports, camping and movies.
> I am looking for E-MAIL ONLY pen pals that will accept short
letters
> with questions like for example:
> 1. Do you have any pets?
> 2. Do you like music?
> 3. What type of music do you like
> about every 6 months because I am a very extremely busy person with
> working a lot of 25 hour weeks at my jobs and at my group home with
> things like daily evening cleaning Chores and activitys like
Walking
> on the Treadmill for 30 Minutes On Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday,
> Circle of friends every Thursday (except June, July and August),
> Class every single Sunday from 8:30am-12:30pm, cooking Dinner at
the
> group home on Saturdays and Sundays from 1:00pm-2:20pm, Working
every
> single Saturday and Sunday at my Jobs from 3:00pm-8:00pm If you
would
> like to be my e-mail pen pal please e-mail me at the e-mails listed
> below:
>
> CHANNING28105@...
> CHANNING28270@...
> CHANCHAN79@...
>
>
> I am wondering does anyone have a Facebook page or a Myspace page
>
> My Facebook name is: Channing Ashbaugh
> My Myspace page is: www.myspace.com/channing28270
>
>
> If so Please Add me.
>
> Channing
>

#314

From: "Kathy Mackin" <kathy0038mackin@...>
Date: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:36 pm
Subject: Re: Check out my Facebook profile

kathy0038mackin

Offline

Larry,

Tthere are several Larry Lyons that do not have pictures posted on
Facebook. How do I know which one is you?

I can be founf on facebook as Kathy Mackin (Network: San Francisco;
I'm the large white woman with the long brown hair)

kathy
redwood city, ca


--- In for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com, larry Lyons
<larryd552002@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Nora;
> I'm on there too.� I don't have a picture of myself�up though.�
> �
> Yours,
> ���������� Larry
>
> --- On Sun, 2/22/09, Nora <newnoz@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Nora <newnoz@...>
> Subject: [for-and-by-autistics] Re: Check out my Facebook profile
> To: for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 3:19 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sorry about this folks,
>
> I wasn't looking close enough and the darn Facebook thing got me. I
> should have checked before i said OK ( i really THOUGHT i knew!!!)
>
> Nora
>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (3)

#313

From: "Larry D. Lyons" <larryd552002@...>
Date: Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:40 pm
Subject: Bonnie

larryd552002

Online Now

For those who didn't notice, Bonnie is the moderator of this group.
She is a nightowl so she catches things that I miss. Not only that,
but she is a bit more net savy than Yours Truly.  She is
indispensible.

Larry

#312

From: larry Lyons <larryd552002@...>
Date: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:49 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Check out my Facebook profile

larryd552002

Online Now

Hi Nora;

I'm on there too. I don't have a picture of myself up though.

Yours,

Larry

--- On Sun, 2/22/09, Nora <newnoz@...> wrote:

From: Nora <newnoz@...>
Subject: [for-and-by-autistics] Re: Check out my Facebook profile
To: for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 3:19 AM

Sorry about this folks,

I wasn't looking close enough and the darn Facebook thing got me. I
should have checked before i said OK ( i really THOUGHT i knew!!!)

Nora

--- In for-and-by-autistic s@yahoogroups. com, Nora Watts <newnoz@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi For-and-by-autistic s,
>
> I set up a Facebook profile where I can post my pictures, videos and
events and I want to add you as a friend so you can see it. First, you
need to join Facebook! Once you join, you can also create your own
profile.
>
> Thanks,
> Nora
>
> To sign up for Facebook, follow the link below:
> http://www.facebook .com/p.php? i=657380697& k=Z3E4Y2W4UY3FUC GFRGZTSVX& r
>
>
> This e-mail may contain promotional materials. If you do not wish to
receive future commercial mailings from Facebook, please click on the
link below. Facebook's offices are located at 156 University Ave.,
Palo Alto, CA 94301.
> http://www.facebook .com/o.php? k=515f18& u=1363558229
>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (3)

#311

From: larry Lyons <larryd552002@...>
Date: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:45 pm
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone

larryd552002

Online Now

Hi Channing,

I'm the owner of the group. I'm sure glad you stopped by. The more the merrier. I think most, if not all, the members here display their e-mail addresses. That in itself is an invitation of sorts.

Anyway, according to Freud the ability to work and love is the final definition of mental health. You are proof that Asperger's Syndrome isn't necessarily a mental illness! I hope you can find a little time to post your thoughts to the list. I'm sure they would be valuable.

Yours,

Larry

--- On Sun, 2/22/09, Channing Ashbaugh <channing28270@...> wrote:

From: Channing Ashbaugh <channing28270@...>
Subject: [for-and-by-autistics] Hello Everyone
To: for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 6:35 AM

Hello Everyone. I have High functioning autism or aspergers
syndrome.I am a female. Some of my hobbies and interests include
pets, sports, camping and movies.
I am looking for E-MAIL ONLY pen pals that will accept short letters
with questions like for example:
1. Do you have any pets?
2. Do you like music?
3. What type of music do you like
about every 6 months because I am a very extremely busy person with
working a lot of 25 hour weeks at my jobs and at my group home with
things like daily evening cleaning Chores and activitys like Walking
on the Treadmill for 30 Minutes On Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday,
Circle of friends every Thursday (except June, July and August),
Class every single Sunday from 8:30am-12:30pm, cooking Dinner at the
group home on Saturdays and Sundays from 1:00pm-2:20pm, Working every
single Saturday and Sunday at my Jobs from 3:00pm-8:00pm If you would
like to be my e-mail pen pal please e-mail me at the e-mails listed
below:

CHANNING28105@ LYCOS.COM
CHANNING28270@ GMAIL.COM
CHANCHAN79@KITTYMAI L.COM

I am wondering does anyone have a Facebook page or a Myspace page

My Facebook name is: Channing Ashbaugh
My Myspace page is: www.myspace. com/channing2827 0

If so Please Add me.

Channing

#310

From: "Channing Ashbaugh" <channing28270@...>
Date: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:35 pm
Subject: Hello Everyone

channing28270

Offline

Hello Everyone.  I have High functioning autism or aspergers
syndrome.I am a female. Some of my hobbies and interests include
pets, sports, camping and movies.
I am looking for E-MAIL ONLY pen pals that will accept short letters
with questions like for example:
1. Do you have any pets?
2. Do you like music?
3. What type of music do you like
about every 6 months because I am a very extremely busy person with
working a lot of 25 hour weeks at my jobs and at my group home with
things like daily evening cleaning Chores and activitys like Walking
on the Treadmill for 30 Minutes On Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday,
Circle of friends every Thursday (except June, July and August),
Class every single Sunday from 8:30am-12:30pm, cooking Dinner at the
group home on Saturdays and Sundays from 1:00pm-2:20pm, Working every
single Saturday and Sunday at my Jobs from 3:00pm-8:00pm If you would
like to be my e-mail pen pal please e-mail me at the e-mails listed
below:

CHANNING28105@...
CHANNING28270@...
CHANCHAN79@...


I am wondering does anyone have a Facebook page or a Myspace page

My Facebook name is: Channing Ashbaugh
My Myspace page is: www.myspace.com/channing28270


If so Please Add me.

Channing

#307

From: larry Lyons <larryd552002@...>
Date: Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:25 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Narcissitic personality disorder

larryd552002

Online Now

>

RAD is a distinct possibility, although it would have developed a
little later in my life than the articles suggest (around 10). I
absolutely have had problems in developing "attachments" with people;
to the point that by the time I was 18 if I had to sit and have a one
on one conversation with someone my entire body would start shaking
and I would feel sick to my stomach. It is not as bad now but I still
tend to be very inhibited, nervous, and anxious with people that I do
not know well.

kathy
redwood city, ca

---

Yes!  That's me!  It started when I was five though.  Sometimes people think
that I'm a real jerk, but it's just that I panic out and don't know what to so
say.  The first thing that pops into my head os often hostile or offensive
simply because I am trying to defend myself.  I feel terrible afterwards. The
outward appearance, though, is like narcissism.  It's like I can dish it out but
can't take it.  It's a really ugly personality trait.

Anyway, here is a list of RAD characteristics in adults:

Avoidant

Intense anger and loss
Hostile
Overly critical of others
Sensitive to blame
Lack of empathy
Views others as untrustworthy or undependable
Views self as unlovable, or too good for others
Relationships feel either threatening to one's sense of control, not worth the
effort, or both
Compulsive self-reliance
Passive withdrawal
Low levels of perceived support
Difficulty getting along with co-workers, often preferring to work alone
Work may provide a good excuse to avoid personal relations
Fear of closeness in relationships
Avoidance of intimacy
Unlikely to idealize the love relationship
Tendency toward self criticism
Anxious/Ambivalent

Compulsive caregiving
Feel overinvolved and underappreciated
No longterm relationships
Idealizing of others
Strong desire for partner to reciprocate in relationship
Desire for extensive contact and declarations of affections
Overinvests his/her emotions in a relationship
Perceives relationships as imbalanced
Preoccupation or dependence on relationship
Views partner as desirable but unpredictable (sometimes available, sometimes
not)
Perceives others as difficult to understand
Relationship is primary method by which one can experience a sense of security
Unlikely to view others as altruistic
Sensitive to rejection
Discomfort with anger
Extreme emotions
Jealous
Possessive
Views self as unlovable
Suicide attempts
Mood swings
Tendency toward dependent depression

Note: The above information was derived from a number of sources, one of them
being the Evergreen Consultants in Human Behavior, based in Evergreen, Colorado.


http://www.radkid.org/adult_attachment.html

--

I'm sure you noticed the similarity to NPD.  Especially this: "Views self as
unlovable, or too good for others ."

Larry

#306

From: "Kathy Mackin" <kathy0038mackin@...>
Date: Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:10 pm
Subject: Re: Narcissitic personality disorder

kathy0038mackin

Offline

>
> So, for me at least, looking at my family dynamics, NPD and AS seem
> to be polar opposites.
>
> kathy
> redwood city, ca
>
> ----
>
> Hi Kathy,
> How about Reactive Attachment Disorder?  It's approximately the
same thing as NPD in that the etiology is the same.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactive_attachment_disorder
>
> http://counsellingresource.com/ask-the-
psychologist/2008/02/26/borderline-personality-disorder-and-reactive-
attachment-disorder/
>
> http://attachinghearts.blogspot.com/2008/08/adult-rad.html
>
> The big difference between RAD or Asperger's Syndrome and NPD is
that NPD is totally unflattering and therefore more likely to be
diagnosed by psychoanalysts rather than regular psychotherpists who
would more likely diagnose RAD.  But I swear I can't tell the
difference on the face of it.  The big problem is that psychoanalysts
are inclined delve into the inner evil and see through the posing.
>
>
> Anyway, I have it all.  The conditions are indistiguishable to me.
I am not proud of my evil impulses.  In fact I am really ashamed of
them, but I can't deny them.  Moreover, I don't think I'm much more
horrible than other people.  Jesus said man is born in sin, and I
assume that means everybody.  What's more, according to Freud all
mental illness is just an exaggeration of normality.
>
> The thing that interested me the most in the report was that
business about physical beauty in children with NPD.  On the face of
it, it makes sense considering the name of the illness
is "narcissistic personality disorder."  (When I was little I was
really beautiful.  People used to turn their heads and gawk at me)
Not only is this a condition that might make any child inclined to
turn inward (the word "autism" originally was "auto-erotism"), but
the beauty is a convenient comfort for a child, and therefore
withdrawal into the self is not such a dreadful option.
http://www.paains.org.uk/articles/beautiful.htm
>
> I think it's more than coincidental that this is common also in
NPD.
>
> Yours,
>             Larry
>


RAD is a distinct possibility, although it would have developed a
little later in my life than the articles suggest (around 10). I
absolutely have had problems in developing "attachments" with people;
to the point that by the time I was 18 if I had to sit and have a one
on one conversation with someone my entire body would start shaking
and I would feel sick to my stomach. It is not as bad now but I still
tend to be very inhibited, nervous, and anxious with people that I do
not know well.

kathy
redwood city, ca

#305

From: larry Lyons <larryd552002@...>
Date: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:49 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Narcissitic personality disorder

larryd552002

Online Now

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Kathy Mackin <kathy0038mackin@...> wrote:

From: Kathy Mackin <kathy0038mackin@...>
Subject: [for-and-by-autistics] Re: Narcissitic personality disorder
To: for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 11:20 AM

No NPD here. In fact I think I am the one the article was telling to
RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN!!!

I think there were 3 NPDs in my family. Mother, oldEST brother, and
sister'The Demon Queen' ... I dubbed her that because 'Demons' feed
off the pain & suffering of others and she made an art form out of
causing me pain & suffering, so much so that I rarely call her by her
given name, and ohhh how pissed she was when she found out that that
is the only way I refer to her anymore. None of our friends see that
the faces these 3 put out there are just facades; Mother, put on the
suffering altruisticly for her children face; oldEST brother put on
the intellectual snob, pompous ass face; Demon Queen put on the
social butterfly, party girl face ... and everyone we knew never
looked beyond what seemed to be.

Then there were father, oldER brother & myself ... Aspies & BPDs
undeniably. Our problems arose out of feeling TOO MUCH, which of
course allowed the other 3 to totally screw with our lives whenever
they wanted to.

Then there is little brother who somehow made it through this three
ring circus and come out normal. Don't know how, but he did.

Dad was died in 1980 before names were put to alot of these disorders
were brought out of the closet (so to speak) so I don't know if he
ever realized that things weren't right inside of him. OldER brother
died in '97, he had actually started going to group therapy (for
depression I think) and he didn't talk much about it, but I do know
that he had started to realize that things weren't right inside I
just don't know if he had ever actually been offically diagnosed with
any of these disorders. Myself, I have only recently (within the last
5 years) been diagnosed with a crap load of disorders and as much as
I hate 'labels' being put on me those labels have helped because I am
still here and learning how to deal with it all.

So, for me at least, looking at my family dynamics, NPD and AS seem
to be polar opposites.

kathy
redwood city, ca

----

Hi Kathy,
How about Reactive Attachment Disorder?  It's approximately the same thing as
NPD in that the etiology is the same.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactive_attachment_disorder

http://counsellingresource.com/ask-the-psychologist/2008/02/26/borderline-person\
ality-disorder-and-reactive-attachment-disorder/

http://attachinghearts.blogspot.com/2008/08/adult-rad.html

The big difference between RAD or Asperger's Syndrome and NPD is that NPD is
totally unflattering and therefore more likely to be diagnosed by psychoanalysts
rather than regular psychotherpists who would more likely diagnose RAD.  But I
swear I can't tell the difference on the face of it.  The big problem is that
psychoanalysts are inclined delve into the inner evil and see through the
posing.

Anyway, I have it all.  The conditions are indistiguishable to me.  I am not
proud of my evil impulses.  In fact I am really ashamed of them, but I can't
deny them.  Moreover, I don't think I'm much more horrible than other people. 
Jesus said man is born in sin, and I assume that means everybody.  What's more,
according to Freud all mental illness is just an exaggeration of normality.

The thing that interested me the most in the report was that business about
physical beauty in children with NPD.  On the face of it, it makes sense
considering the name of the illness is "narcissistic personality disorder." 
(When I was little I was really beautiful.  People used to turn their heads and
gawk at me)  Not only is this a condition that might make any child inclined to
turn inward (the word "autism" originally was "auto-erotism"), but the beauty is
a convenient comfort for a child, and therefore withdrawal into the self is not
such a dreadful option.  http://www.paains.org.uk/articles/beautiful.htm

I think it's more than coincidental that this is common also in NPD.

Yours,
             Larry

#304

From: Lydia Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Date: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:12 pm
Subject: Advice for disabled jobseekers

ledheadlydia

Offline

http://www.disabilityscoop.com/2009/02/16/beating-the-employment-odds/2178/

This is just so full of links and advice I HAD to share it. Enjoy!
: )

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Pat Schissel <pats@...>
Date: Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 4:28 PM
Subject: Scoop Essentials: Beating The Employment Odds
To: AHA-AS-PDD@yahoogroups.com

Fyi

Scoop Essentials: Beating The Employment Odds

When the government released its first ever jobs report on people with disabilities earlier this month, it confirmed what was long suspected. Americans with disabilities are far more likely to be unemployed than their non-disabled peers. And, as the economy takes a nosedive, the number of people with disabilities who are jobless continues to climb.

But not to fear. There are opportunities to make money while doing something you enjoy, no matter your abilities or skill level. In this installment of Scoop Essentials, Doreen Rosimos, an employment specialist and a partner at IncomeLinks, LLC (http://www.incomelinks.biz/), shows you how.

Check out what Doreen has to say and then click here (http://www.disabilityscoop.com/questions-for-doreen-rosimos/ ) to submit your own questions to her.

Disability Scoop: Can you talk about the current employment situation for people with disabilities?

Doreen Rosimos: It's tough to find a job right now for everybody, but I do believe it's possible. One of the things I tell people is you need to be in people's faces without agitating them. Use your connections. Use the people you know. When you go places, look for things that aren't getting done. For people with disabilities sometimes they're looking for full-time work, but most of the time they're not. To get a part-time job right now is actually much easier. So this is an opportunity for us.

Disability Scoop: What options exist for people with disabilities who are looking for work?

Doreen Rosimos: There are opportunities. Right now going to a small employer � the corner market, the local bakery, the businesses with five to six people � is the best place to get part-time employment, especially if you can go in and talk to the people there. Maybe they need someone just two hours a day. It's hard to find someone for two hours a day. But for folks with disabilities, that's often what they want because of their benefits or because they may get tired, so that's actually good news.

As far as locating a job, a lot of people get money under the community-based care waiver, which is Medicaid money. If you can direct it yourself, you can move within the guidelines of Medicaid and it can pay for assistance to help you get a job. There are people who have literally paid a bounty to people who help them get a job. They've gone to their neighbor and said, can you help me find a job? I have $500 on my job line or I have $100 on my job line. It's a reward to anyone who finds me a job. That's a bargain for the country. The reality is that we pay thousands of dollars to help people find jobs.

Disability Scoop: How do you identify a job that's going to be successful for you?

Doreen Rosimos: That's a hard one for anybody. Like Confucius said, if you do what you love, you'll never work a day in your life. When I help people find jobs, I don't help them find a job. I help them find a place to be, where they can grow as a person and experience some satisfaction in their life, not just put band-aids in a box. A place where they can be around people, if that's what they're looking for. I actually have a worksheet that I use with people and it asks, do you like crowds, do you like noise, do you like light, that type of thing. Then in my mind I figure out that place. I look at characteristics first, then skill.

Disability Scoop: What should you look for in an employment situation if you're a person with a disability?

Doreen Rosimos: Ask yourself, do you think that you could be successful there? That's the number one thing. One of the things that happens is that people will take anything just to get a paycheck. In reality, you could just be leading yourself to a black mark on your resume. So don't just take anything. Don't hold out for the ultimate dream job either but hold out for the brick in the sidewalk that will bring you to your ultimate dream job.

Disability Scoop: A lot of people struggle with what they want to do. What advice do you have?

Doreen Rosimos: Believe in yourself. I'll be sitting with people and they're 40 and they have a developmental disability or an intellectual disability and they're at that point where they'll do anything even if it's a job they've had nine times before and they haven't been successful. I just try to get them to relax and talk about when they were younger. What did they want to do then? Slowly they start remembering what they wanted to do.

I had a guy who just wanted to be an electrician, but he'd been electrocuted and he was never going to be an electrician again, but he wouldn't give up that dream. No matter what other job you put him in, he wouldn't even try. I talked to him and he just really missed his buddies. So I helped him get a job where the electricians hang out. He was so happy and he's probably been there eleven or twelve years now.

Disability Scoop: What if you are having finding or keeping a job?

Doreen Rosimos: This is a time when all employers are looking through their books and figuring out who's making money for them and who's not. And the ones who are not producing are going. It's really an opportunity for America's employers to clean house. And for people with disabilities, I really worry because employers may be looking and saying, "he gets a social security check and this guy here has nothing else, so I'll keep the guy with nothing else." I think that's happening a lot.

You need to keep a positive outlook. When your employer is walking around and he sees someone without a positive outlook, suddenly that person has a blemish. People want to be around happy people right now.

Disability Scoop: Is there a job out there for everyone? Or are there some people for whom working is unfeasible?

Doreen Rosimos: I don't believe that there's a job for everyone because we don't have the power to make people hire people. That's why I tend to really go toward micro-enterprise development, or self employment, because everybody can produce income.

Finding a job can be difficult because employers often make assumptions. You can dress up a person all you want, but if an employer sees something that scares them a little bit, the employer tends to get nervous.

Disability Scoop: Can you tell me about micro-enterprises?

Doreen Rosimos: A micro-enterprise is a business that provides a service or sells a product. It's a very small business that often just employs the person who owns it. Some examples are a guy who finds scrap metal and brings it to the scrap metal yard to get money. Or the guy who sells coffee on the third floor of the insurance building. Another example is a person who takes their art and turns it into cards and sells them.

The reason we want a job usually is for income. The second reason is bringing other aspects of life into our life like people or places. Micro-enterprises do both. The person who runs it has control. They find the customers. They have control over how big their business gets and what their prices are. A micro-enterprise lets you control your own life.

Right now there are opportunities everywhere. If you know how to fix anything, if you are a person who can mend a shoe, you're going to be busy. People aren't buying new shoes, they're fixing shoes. There are lots of opportunities like that. If you're the guy selling one flower instead of a dozen, people will buy one in times like these because they can't afford a dozen.

Disability Scoop: Who is a good candidate for a micro-enterprise?

Doreen Rosimos: Anyone who wants to generate income and can't find a job or doesn't want a traditional job. A person is a good candidate if they have a medical condition and need to own their own schedule or if a person doesn't have transportation and can only work when they have a ride. It works well for people who need to set their own schedules.

Disability Scoop: How do you pick something that's right for you?

Doreen Rosimos: Figure out where you want to be, what kind of people you want to be around and what time of day you want to be there. The other thing I tell people is to think about how much you need to get the things you want. Look at what you want to do everyday. Do you want to have HBO? Do you want to go on vacation? What does it take to pay for a week of your life?

We often ask how much you want to make, but for people with developmental disabilities and especially people who've never worked, that's like reaching to the sky. But if you sit down and say, "what do you want to do everyday" and they say, "I want to go to the coffee shop everyday" or "I want to go to Disney World." Well, then you can do the math.

Disability Scoop: What are the characteristics of a micro-enterprise?

Doreen Rosimos: You have the control. It's a great feeling to be self-employed right now and that's what a micro-enterprise is. It means I'm going to make a decision about how hard I'm going to work to get a contract. Not, I'm going to wait to see how hard my boss works to get a contract. It's freedom and control.

We've got micro-enterprises where people make $100,000 and some where people make $30 a month. It depends what they strive for, what they aim for and did they pick the right business plan. It could be anything. I know a person who breeds birds and probably makes $40,000 a year. And I know a guy with a three-head M&M machine in a local Laundromat. He goes to the Laundromat everyday and gets his quarters and refills the machine. He sees the same people over and over again and they're happy to see him. They say, "oh the M&M guy!" The best part of that business is that he's happy.

That's the other thing with work, it gives people an identity. They have a routine. They go out and see people. Instead of the guy with cerebral palsy, it's the M&M guy. He doesn't make a lot of money. He made $1,300 last year. But that's okay with him. He's thrilled. He used to make $3 a day in a workshop.

Disability Scoop: Why is income important?

Doreen Rosimos: It's about self-pride. When people don't work, they lose a piece of themselves. What you do for work always comes up within the first three minutes of meeting somebody. It feels good to have a work identity.

Disability Scoop: You mentioned someone you worked with who was previously employed in a workshop. Are workshops a good thing for people? Is there merit to them?

Doreen Rosimos: First, I want to say that really good people work in them and they care about the people there, but I don't think workshops are a good thing. I don't think that people should be warehoused and I don't call it work. What I do call it is respite for the parents, which is important. A lot of the folks that go there like going there. But when I go and see someone putting a screw in a bag and then someone putting a washer in a bag and the next person putting the next screw in the bag, it's not real. I don't like creating false lives for people.

I understand that there are limited resources and that people need to be somewhere, but I don't think that's a reason to settle for workshops. I think we can do better. I think we should say, "these are your limitations. Let's see what we can create." Not, "this is what's available." That's not easy. I don't say that lightly, but the right thing is often not the easiest thing.

Disability Scoop: If you want to create a micro-enterprise or obtain traditional employment, what do you need to remember in terms of professionalism?

Doreen Rosimos: Always look your best. Look appropriate for the job. Don't wear a suit if you want to detail cars. Be clean. Look good. Smell good. Smile. Put your hand out for a handshake. Be professional to whatever level the non-disabled person in that profession is. Work is the one place in my mind where disability doesn't matter. You're just appropriate for the job.

Disability Scoop: How can you about job etiquette?

Doreen Rosimos: Some of this is parenting. You can go to job centers or look on the Internet. You can go to the places where you want to work and see how people are dressed. There are places like the one-stop centers or go to the Social Security web site and they have resources for finding a job and then there's the department of employment security within each state. Their job is to help citizens get jobs.

Disability Scoop: What are the biggest mistakes people make work-wise?

Doreen Rosimos: Not performing the job is the biggest mistake. When you have a micro-enterprise, you take care of your customers. That's your job. And if you have a job, you have to be there on time. You need to do your work. And right now, it's all about making sure that you do all you can do. It's about treating the company's money like your own money and treating the company's image like your own image.

We all make mistakes when we're looking for work. Don't accept anything if you know you're not going to be successful at it.

Disability Scoop: What should your goal be work-wise?

Doreen Rosimos: Often if you have a disability, it's expected that you don't work. If we expect that as a society, how must a person with a disability view themselves? We have to have expectations. I either talk people down who have unrealistic expectations � like making $10,000 a week � or I talk them up to $100 from three cents. It depends what point you're at.

What do you want to know about the current employment situation and how to find work? Submit your questions for Doreen by clicking here (http://www.disabilityscoop.com/questions-for-doreen-rosimos/) . Then, check back at Disability Scoop in the coming weeks for Doreen's answers.

pat

Patricia R. Schissel, LMSW

President, AHA

Asperger Syndrome and High Functioning Autism Association (AHA), Inc.

PO Box 916

Bethpage, NY 11714

516.470.0360 p

www.ahaNY.org

pats@...

--
Lydia Shelley
www.rainbow-websites.com
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
"Every politician on earth claims to support freedom. The problem is so few of them understand the simple meaning of the word."
~Ron Paul
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
WE CAN DO THIS
http://www.nopom.info
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
Autism/Aspergers T-Shirts & Designs
http://www.cafepress.com/autismrules
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
Follow your passion, and success will follow you. ~Arthur Buddhold

#303

From: "Kathy Mackin" <kathy0038mackin@...>
Date: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:20 pm
Subject: Re: Narcissitic personality disorder

kathy0038mackin

Offline

No NPD here. In fact I think I am the one the article was telling to
RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN!!!

I think there were 3 NPDs in my family. Mother, oldEST brother, and
sister'The Demon Queen' ... I dubbed her that because 'Demons' feed
off the pain & suffering of others and she made an art form out of
causing me pain & suffering, so much so that I rarely call her by her
given name, and ohhh how pissed she was when she found out that that
is the only way I refer to her anymore. None of our friends see that
the faces these 3 put out there are just facades; Mother, put on the
suffering altruisticly for her children face; oldEST brother put on
the intellectual snob, pompous ass face; Demon Queen put on the
social butterfly, party girl face ... and everyone we knew never
looked beyond what seemed to be.

Then there were father, oldER brother & myself ... Aspies & BPDs
undeniably. Our problems arose out of feeling TOO MUCH, which of
course allowed the other 3 to totally screw with our lives whenever
they wanted to.

Then there is little brother who somehow made it through this three
ring circus and come out normal. Don't know how, but he did.

Dad was died in 1980 before names were put to alot of these disorders
were brought out of the closet (so to speak) so I don't know if he
ever realized that things weren't right inside of him. OldER brother
died in '97, he had actually started going to group therapy (for
depression I think) and he didn't talk much about it, but I do know
that he had started to realize that things weren't right inside I
just don't know if he had ever actually been offically diagnosed with
any of these disorders. Myself, I have only recently (within the last
5 years) been diagnosed with a crap load of disorders and as much as
I hate 'labels' being put on me those labels have helped because I am
still here and learning how to deal with it all.

So, for me at least, looking at my family dynamics, NPD and AS seem
to be polar opposites.

kathy
redwood city, ca

--- In for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com, "Larry D. Lyons"
<larryd552002@...> wrote:
>
> I wonder if anyone in this group who has Asperger's Syndrome might
> also fit the criterea for Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
>
> http://www.minddisorders.com/Kau-Nu/Narcissistic-personality-
> disorder.html
>
> Yours Truly certainly does!  In fact, I'm beginning to wonder what
the
> difference is.  I suspect it has to do with etiology.  In NPD the
> problem derives from cold parents, whereas in Asperger's Syndrome
the
> condition arises from infantile trauma for which the parents aren't
to
> blame, as in premature birth, cesarean birth, severe illness, etc.
In
> either instance, the child would be distrustful of all external
> reality, and especially the mother who is the prototype of all
> external reality.  So, I imagine the resulting personality
disorder,
> be it NPD or AS, would be nearly indistinguishable.
>
>
> Larry
>

#302

From: Lydia Shelley <mizlydia@...>
Date: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:04 pm
Subject: Re: Narcissitic personality disorder

ledheadlydia

Offline

Interesting conjectures... food for thought.

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 1:31 PM, Larry D. Lyons <larryd552002@...> wrote:

I wonder if anyone in this group who has Asperger's Syndrome might
also fit the criterea for Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

http://www.minddisorders.com/Kau-Nu/Narcissistic-personality-
disorder.html

Yours Truly certainly does! In fact, I'm beginning to wonder what the
difference is. I suspect it has to do with etiology. In NPD the
problem derives from cold parents, whereas in Asperger's Syndrome the
condition arises from infantile trauma for which the parents aren't to
blame, as in premature birth, cesarean birth, severe illness, etc. In
either instance, the child would be distrustful of all external
reality, and especially the mother who is the prototype of all
external reality. So, I imagine the resulting personality disorder,
be it NPD or AS, would be nearly indistinguishable.

Larry

#301

From: "Larry D. Lyons" <larryd552002@...>
Date: Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:31 pm
Subject: Narcissitic personality disorder

larryd552002

Online Now

I wonder if anyone in this group who has Asperger's Syndrome might
also fit the criterea for Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

http://www.minddisorders.com/Kau-Nu/Narcissistic-personality-
disorder.html

Yours Truly certainly does!  In fact, I'm beginning to wonder what the
difference is.  I suspect it has to do with etiology.  In NPD the
problem derives from cold parents, whereas in Asperger's Syndrome the
condition arises from infantile trauma for which the parents aren't to
blame, as in premature birth, cesarean birth, severe illness, etc.  In
either instance, the child would be distrustful of all external
reality, and especially the mother who is the prototype of all
external reality.  So, I imagine the resulting personality disorder,
be it NPD or AS, would be nearly indistinguishable.


Larry

#300

From: larry Lyons <larryd552002@...>
Date: Thu Feb 5, 2009 4:58 am
Subject: Re: Re: Understanding Autism

larryd552002

Online Now

The psychoanalytic theory is that trauma causes autism. This could be either psychological trauma or physical trauma. That theory is validated by the fact that children with a history of trauma and neglect also have the same brain structures as autistic children.

Anyway, check out the links page. I have some links there that include brain studies of children who suffered severe stress in early infancy, as in Romanian orphanages. There is also an interesting study of the brain physiology--and even genetic changes--in neglected baby rats. There is also a case of a woman who was born with only one brain hemisphere, but who is NOT autistic, or retarded or crazy. She is perfectly normal. The big mystery she presents to modern neurology is this: Why does a subtle brain difference, such as a large amagdyla or hippacampus, result in autism when someone with only half a brain has no mental peculiarities at all? It would be more reasonable, I think, to assume that the brain peculiarities of autism and infantile ptsd are secondary to peculiar experiences.

Yours,

Larry

--- On Wed, 2/4/09, bonnieinthemist <orebon@...> wrote:

From: bonnieinthemist <orebon@...>
Subject: [for-and-by-autistics] Re: Understanding Autism
To: for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 7:33 PM

The size of the hippocampus is different in autistics which would make
their brains physiologically peculiar. That neglected children or
children with post traumatic stress also exhibit a similar
hippocampus, doesn't relate to autism except to say autistics could
also be neglected or have post traumatic stress.

~Bonnie

- - - - - - - - -
There is no brain
> physiology peculiar to autism, and, in fact, the brains of autistics
> are no different than the brains of children who suffer from neglect
> or ptsd.

#299

From: "bonnieinthemist" <orebon@...>
Date: Thu Feb 5, 2009 3:33 am
Subject: Re: Understanding Autism

bonnieinthemist

Offline

The size of the hippocampus is different in autistics which would make
their brains physiologically peculiar. That neglected children or
children with post traumatic stress also exhibit a similar
hippocampus, doesn't relate to autism except to say autistics could
also be neglected or have post traumatic stress.

~Bonnie


- - - - - - - - -
  There is no brain
> physiology peculiar to autism, and, in fact, the brains of autistics
> are no different than the brains of children who suffer from neglect
> or ptsd.

#298

From: larry Lyons <larryd552002@...>
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2009 5:15 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Understanding Autism

larryd552002

Online Now

Larry, thank you!!!!

You always put things so eloquently. My reaction was to
think "humbug", stop reading, and move the post to the file I keep
for posts from this group.

(I keep posts from all the groups I belong to so that if someone
mentions something at a later that I don't remember and have no
bleepin idea what they are talking about I can find it again and join
the discussion)

kathy

ps. when you can, signon to Child Survivors and at least say hello.
there are alot of people over there who miss you bunches and worry
about you because you are gone. (I know, you belong to too many
groups and dial up sucks, but it would do a couple of people a woprld
of good to hear from you)

--------

Hi Kathy;
I'll do it, but I'm a shy reclusive person.  I get all flustered when people
make a fuss over me.  I can't handle reunion drama.  It embarrasses me.  I'm
much better at joining a group than *re-joining.*  This isn't to say I don't
like everyone on Child Survivors, though.  I just wish I never had to leave in
the first place.

Incidentally, I want to thank you again for the referral to cheap dialup.  This
Net Zero works better than I thought it would.  Ten dollars per month!!!

Yours,
           Larry

#297

From: "Kathy Mackin" <kathy0038mackin@...>
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2009 4:54 pm
Subject: Re: Understanding Autism

kathy0038mackin

Offline

--- In for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com, "Larry D. Lyons"
<larryd552002@...> wrote:
>
> --- In for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com, "obvxfruwrdnv"
> <obvxfruwrdnv@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Autism, which is sometimes also referred to Childhood Autism,
Early
> > Infantile Autism, or Kanner's Autism, is caused by some
neurological
> > malfunction that causes marked delays in the development in the
> areas of
> > communication and social interaction. ---------
>
> --------
>
> There are no neurological tests for autism.  There is no brain
> physiology peculiar to autism, and, in fact, the brains of
autistics
> are no different than the brains of children who suffer from
neglect
> or ptsd.  Check out the links page for the scientific studies I
found
> on this.
>
> You will find, though, that even mentioning this fact will result
in
> rage and scorn and personal attacks by people who feel threatened
by
> any explanations for autism that might be construed as "blaming"
> mothers.
>
> This group was created as a safe haven for people who are
interested
> in exploring the causes of autism without getting intimidated.
> Everybody is welcome to express and defend various viewpoints
> though.
>
> Anyway, I'm glad you joined and am glad you posted, and I am glad
you
> are peaceable. I'm especially interested if you have found
scientific
> studies about the etiology of autism.
>
> Yours,
>             Larry
>


Larry, thank you!!!!

You always put things so eloquently. My reaction was to
think "humbug", stop reading, and move the post to the file I keep
for posts from this group.

(I keep posts from all the groups I belong to so that if someone
mentions something at a later that I don't remember and have no
bleepin idea what they are talking about I can find it again and join
the discussion)

kathy

ps. when you can, signon to Child Survivors and at least say hello.
there are alot of people over there who miss you bunches and worry
about you because you are gone. (I know, you belong to too many
groups and dial up sucks, but it would do a couple of people a woprld
of good to hear from you)

#296

From: "Larry D. Lyons" <larryd552002@...>
Date: Tue Feb 3, 2009 5:27 pm
Subject: Re: Understanding Autism

larryd552002

Online Now

--- In for-and-by-autistics@yahoogroups.com, "obvxfruwrdnv"
<obvxfruwrdnv@...> wrote:
>
>
> Autism, which is sometimes also referred to Childhood Autism, Early
> Infantile Autism, or Kanner's Autism, is caused by some neurological
> malfunction that causes marked delays in the development in the
areas of
> communication and social interaction. ---------

--------

There are no neurological tests for autism.  There is no brain
physiology peculiar to autism, and, in fact, the brains of autistics
are no different than the brains of children who suffer from neglect
or ptsd.  Check out the links page for the scientific studies I found
on this.

You will find, though, that even mentioning this fact will result in
rage and scorn and personal attacks by people who feel threatened by
any explanations for autism that might be construed as "blaming"
mothers.

This group was created as a safe haven for people who are interested
in exploring the causes of autism without getting intimidated.
Everybody is welcome to express and defend various viewpoints
though.

Anyway, I'm glad you joined and am glad you posted, and I am glad you
are peaceable. I'm especially interested if you have found scientific
studies about the etiology of autism.

Yours,
             Larry