I believe I picked up this website from someone on the Esens group.

http://www.sleepingearthed.com/index.html

I was so impressed that I bought the mattress pad.  Almost as
soon as we put the thing on our bed and grounded it, something
happened to me that was totally unexpected.  My hip bone
in my right hip started moving, and although it was temporarily a
bit uncomfortable for a short time, my hip bone popped into place.
I was not aware that my hip bone was out of place, but knew that
it usually ached in the morning while I was still in bed and that
I had almost no flexibility in that joint.  As soon as my hip bone
moved into place I had complete flexibility in that joint.

No where in their literature to they talk about such a thing
happening, nor are any claims made for such a thing, but nevertheless
it happened.

But the real reason that I am writing is that I do think the pad
has a lot to do with possibly helping overcome electrical sensitivity.
It is a way of gathering free electrons into the body and overcoming
free radicals in the body. It greatly reduces or eliminates
inflammation in the body.  This alone can greatly improve the immune
system.  We all seem to agree that a strong immune system makes a
person less susceptible to electric sensitivities.

Anyway, my husband and I are truly impressed with the results we are
getting after only two nights using the pad.

Thanks to whoever recommended this site.

Best regards, Phyllicia

This sounds very familiar to those who have tried the paleolithic diet.
It's common to those who eat cooked/processed carbohydrates.
If you were to try eating nothing but raw fatty animal protein for three weeks I
think you
would see these problems disappear.

William




--- In eSens@yahoogroups.com, "richsurf77" <richgrav@...> wrote:
>
> It's funny but it seems to me like my symptoms are either quite good or
> noticably a lot worse.

  And also when they are bad,
> when I wake up in the morning my head feels bad, with my ears ringing
> more and the side of my head that I am lying on feeling like it has
> been crushed and feels bruised

  And also
> my right shoulder feels hot and aches when I'm on the computer
> probably because I'm right-handed so that's the hand I hold the mouse
> with so I guess my shoulder is being slightly electrocuted!! But I
> wonder why it is not my  hand that fells like this or a lower part of
> my arm?
>

Hi Richard,

> Hi Gilligan,  I have just looked at your site and read several pages
> and I was thinking, when you said you were working with disabled
> people and you became extremely ill and said that they drained your
> energy, are you sure this is what caused it? I am thinking maybe they
> lived nearer electricity wires or their homes had poor wiring or they
> had devices on that had strong fields. Or another possibility is that
> you had recently been exposed to more fields at home and this built
> up the wealening of you immune system, because i  have noticed that I
> often feel worse after I have used my computer than when i am
> actually on it. I am open to your theory as possible but I am not
> totally sure it is possible and is the actual cause.
>
> From Richard (UK)
>

No, I am sure that I am correct about being drained of my energy by
needy people. This is called "psychic vampirism", and it is usually
not intentional. I was volunteering at a day program for at least a
dozen developmentally disabled people for only four hours at a time.
There was nothing unusual electromagnetically about the building the
day program was located in or the surrounding area. I was very
suceptible to extreme fatigue from having my energy drained by others
because my life force was extremely weak at the time.

See http://www.llewellynjournal.com/article/513

Thanks for your feedback,
Gilligan

On Dec 30, 2006, at 10:09 AM, snoshoe_2 wrote:
> About the water impedence bit, if you know anyone that's a Ham, or
> into radio, they could probably be helpful to letting you know about
> weather and water and which wavelengths are most affected by them.  I
> know I get quite a difference in radio stations coming in, depending
> on the weather in winter, much less just nights in general.

My previous post on the effects water were informed primarily because
I have been an active 'extra' class amateur radio operator (ham) for
the last 15 years.

Although weather can affect HF (shortwave) and LF/MF(am broadcast)
radio station propagation slightly, far larger variances are due to
the effects of the sun on the ionosphere, which vary greatly by time
of day (day/night), season(summer/winter), and sunspot activity -
which itself goes up and down in an 11 year cycle.   In addition,
solar flares can cause temporary upsets to radio propagation that
uses the ionosphere.

These factors do not have much effect on higher frequencies, such as
FM broadcast or microwave (cell phones / sattelite).   Up in the
microwave range, absorption is a factor, but most people's cell
phones still work fine in rain and snow storms, so it's not THAT much
of a factor.

For AM broadcast radio stations, weather is almost insignificant as a
factor.   For FM, there is a very slight absorbing effect to heavy
snow or rain, but rarely noticeable.      Also, you will notice that
even in tunnels below hills FM radio (and cellphones) are often
received just fine, this is because those signals tend to reflect
inside the tunnel off the tunnel walls.

Really, shielding from radio waves is VERY hard work and rarely
completely effective at a wide range of frequencies.

Garth (KG7GA)

--- In eSens@yahoogroups.com, Andrew McAfee <amcafeerr@...> wrote:
>
> I also have been struggling with how to get a good night's rest and
> wake up refreshed. I have a blanket of velostat on the floor below
my
> bed which is grounded. A silver lined fabric hanging at the head of
my
> bed to block the reflection of RF off the wall. The room is painted
> with copper paint (and entire surface of ceilings and hallway, all
> grounded) and the windows are covered with two materials. The bed
is
> natural latex foam with no metal, and I still am feeling burning
> sensations on my face, stress on my kidneys, and tingling at the
> corners of my eyes at night.
> Oh, I also where a lead lined hood over my head and turn the power
off
> at the breaker box.
>
> The sense that I get is that the copper paint is resonating with
the
> outside RF or some electricity from the ground or from somewhere
else
> in the house. I have tried sleeping with grounding material
touching me
> but that drains my energy. I have gotten the ambient body voltage
> reading down to .02 mV while I am in bed.
>
> There are so many factors to contend with...
> I can understand why another ES person is having trouble sleeping.
> Andrew
> On Dec 30, 2006, at 7:44 AM, richsurf77 wrote:
>
> > It's funny but it seems to me like my symptoms are either quite
good or
> > noticably a lot worse. There doesn't seem to be much in between.
For
> > example when they are bad I know when I switch the computer on the
> > normal noise that the desktop case makes seems louder than normal
and
> > almost like it is vibrating inside my head. And also when they
are bad,
> > when I wake up in the morning my head feels bad, with my ears
ringing
> > more and the side of my head that I am lying on feeling like it
has
> > been crushed and feels bruised. I guess this is possibly because
the
> > blood vessels are already narrower because of the ES and maybe
lying
> > with the side of my head on the pillow crushes them even more.
And also
> > my right shoulder feels hot and aches when I'm on the computer
> > probably because I'm right-handed so that's the hand I hold the
mouse
> > with so I guess my shoulder is being slightly electrocuted!! But I
> > wonder why it is not my  hand that fells like this or a lower
part of
> > my arm?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >


Hi Andrew,  what is velostat and what is it protecting you from and
how is it grounded? And what does the copper paint protect you from?
I assume it's outside electric fields as you are turning the electric
off. Also this body voltage reading, what was it before you put these
things in? And does it go up alot  when you are near a working  TV or
computer or power lines and where is the reading the highest? Have
you tried theStetzer filters I think they are supposed to be good.

From Richard  (UK)

>>>>> although some seem clueless that tying neutrals from different
>>>>> circuits together is a bad idea<<<<<
>
> This is the impression I've had. So, in consulting a Professional
> ( either through management, a willing friend as a favor OR
> someone I'm paying), how can I establish that they WILL know the
> whole picture ie: not be clueless?
>
> And, whoever it is, would showing them your post be a good idea?

Hi Katrina!

I would suggest showing them my post and seeing if they understand
it.  If not, keep searching.  I realize it can be frustrating.  I
would also be willing to talk with them briefly on the phone.

Garth

Hello Snoshoe,

on http://www.milieuziektes.nl/Pagina109.html
I have also placed a sample of sferics.
They were recorded some 15 years ago, whene there was not so much air
pollution in the aether.

I don not think that the book *vernetz* is of interest.

If you want an interesting book, in german, it is
*Tachyonen, Orgonenergie, Skalarwellen*
by Marco Bischof
See http://www.milieuziektes.nl/Pagina8.html

About what is coming from above:
A therapist told me, that when checking children, they found very often 24
GHz in them, coming from satellites.

Healthy New Year everyone!

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus




----- Original Message -----
From: "snoshoe_2" <snoshoe_2@...>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 19:09
Subject: [eSens] Wind and question for Charles


> Since wind was a topic earlier in the year, I found this interesting
> bit about how it may be a factor to some of us, maybe worsening us
> some days.
> You have to click on the British flag for the English vs. to get to
> this. There's a map on the lower half of the page:
>
> "For a long time it is known that the jetstream is not only a wind
> field, but has also electromagnetic characteristics. It works like an
> enormous loop antenna, where also electromagnetic atmosphere impulses
> travel, for instance the Schumann resonance waves. It is already used
> also for technical projects for the use of these atmosphere energies
> as for example the HAARP project in Alaska (see our
> book "Zaubergesang")."
> http://www.fosar-bludorf.com/archiv/tlr_eng.htm
>
> Charles, does this book look like it would be of interest to us here,
> it's not in English as yet?  http://www.fosar-bludorf.com/vernetz.htm
>
> Happy New Year everyone!
>
> About the water impedence bit, if you know anyone that's a Ham, or
> into radio, they could probably be helpful to letting you know about
> weather and water and which wavelengths are most affected by them.  I
> know I get quite a difference in radio stations coming in, depending
> on the weather in winter, much less just nights in general.
>
> ~ Snsoshoe
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1862 (20061110) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>

Since wind was a topic earlier in the year, I found this interesting
bit about how it may be a factor to some of us, maybe worsening us
some days.
You have to click on the British flag for the English vs. to get to
this. There's a map on the lower half of the page:

"For a long time it is known that the jetstream is not only a wind
field, but has also electromagnetic characteristics. It works like an
enormous loop antenna, where also electromagnetic atmosphere impulses
travel, for instance the Schumann resonance waves. It is already used
also for technical projects for the use of these atmosphere energies
as for example the HAARP project in Alaska (see our
book "Zaubergesang")."
http://www.fosar-bludorf.com/archiv/tlr_eng.htm

Charles, does this book look like it would be of interest to us here,
it's not in English as yet?  http://www.fosar-bludorf.com/vernetz.htm

Happy New Year everyone!

About the water impedence bit, if you know anyone that's a Ham, or
into radio, they could probably be helpful to letting you know about
weather and water and which wavelengths are most affected by them.  I
know I get quite a difference in radio stations coming in, depending
on the weather in winter, much less just nights in general.

~ Snsoshoe

I've also been looking into trying some solar lighting for the indoors of my
home.  The best thing I have been able to find so far on line is a light called
Everlite at http://www.4lots.com/index.asp?Page/Action=VIEWPROD&ProdID=998  I
would be interested to hear about other solar indoor lights that others have
tried.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Paresh
   To: eSens@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:31 PM
   Subject: [eSens] solar light


   Somewhat off topic but are there solar powered light bulbs that can be used at
home? I was in a hotel once that said had solar powered light. It was very soft
and ethereal. Thanks.
   blessings,
   Paresh

   http://home.earthlink.net/~sunmoonyoga/

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It is good to talk to someone who knows things about this, unlike myself.  I
have shielding of some sort in every room in my house.  But I am concentrating
mostly on my living room for now since it is the room where I spend most of my
time.  I live in a mobile home that was very cheap which I fixed up on the
inside.  If I lived in a regular home I would not be experimenting so much with
the shielding.  I have layers of shielding which eventually I will cover with
some 1/4 inch sheetrock to hide it.  And I am placing insulation ceiling tiles
on the ceiling to cover the shielding there.  I have layers of different
materials that I have tried.  Some that block microwaves.  Others are just very
conductive and I use them to ground the whole thing.  Chicken wire didn't do
anything for me.  I used to put it into the walls when I was replacing all the
cheap material that originally was in the home.  The smaller the holes in the
wire the better.  I use wire with 1/4 inch openings.  I have been told that you
should place another sheet of wire a quarter inch on top of the first wire and
make sure the holes don't line up.  What I did was place insulation between the
wire.  I found this to be very very helpful.  Although the space between the
wire is about 3/4 inch.  I am open to testing any other shielding materials but
the are mostly so expensive when looked for on line.  I'm open to any
suggestions if anybody else has any ideas for shielding materials.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Garth Hitchens
   To: eSens@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 12:19 PM
   Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Water as an emf block


   Water >can< shield EMF's, definitely, but it takes a LOT of it, and
   saltwater is far more effective than normal water. Even with
   saltwater, the effectiveness varies by frequency. Although a few
   inches of water might stop microwaves (cell phones, etc), lower
   frequencies in the HF and ELF range can easily penetrate it. In
   the past, military submarine communications took place via ELF. In
   fact, the frequency used for submarine communication during the cold
   war was 76hz, which is very close to our 60hz power line frequency,
   so obviously even a LOT of saltwater won't stop 60hz radiation, since
   submarines could still receive 76hz even when submerged quite deeply.

   The result is that I'm saying that yes, water/snow can block some
   higher frequency RF to some degree, but the effect is not strong
   enough to be useful for blocking EMF's for electrosensitivity. Even
   sattelite TV dishes which use very high frequency waves are still
   mostly functional in rain and snow storms.

   Garth

   On Dec 27, 2006, at 8:04 PM, denom wrote:

   > I would not guess that it was the snow on the roof that was
   > blocking the signals since the snow on the roof was still there for
   > awhile after the storm stopped and the clock started working
   > again. What you are saying is that it could be that water can
   > block emf if the shielding is everywhere. I will have to try
   > another experiment with the clock surrounded by water on all sides
   > and if it works then that would prove that water can shield
   > frequencies.
   > ----- Original Message -----
   > From: Garth Hitchens
   > To: eSens@yahoogroups.com
   > Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 1:54 PM
   > Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Water as an emf block
   >
   >
   > This thing about water isn't really a useful test.
   >
   > The atomic clock signals from colorado are broadcast on 2.5, 5, 10,
   > 15 and 20 mhz. Depending on the time of day and sunspot activity,
   > they could arrive on any one of those frequencies. In addition,
   > because the signals bounce off the ionosphere one or more times, it
   > is likely that the signals are approaching your house at a high
   > angle
   > (toward your roof, rather than at the side of your house). Finally,
   > HF radio signals (such as the ones you describe) are absorbed and
   > re-
   > radiated by pipes, gutters, wiring, and almost everything else metal
   > inside your house, 'scrambling' the apparent direction of the
   > signal.
   >
   > Trying to block the WWV signal (time signal) using a gallon of water
   > is kind of like trying to stop an AM radio signal from getting to an
   > AM radio by the same method. It won't work.
   >
   > To make matters even more complicated, the national bureau of
   > standards and technologies also broadcasts the time signals on the
   > SAME FREQUENCIES from Hawaii, so depending on time of day and
   > geographic location, you could be picking up the Hawaii signals
   > instead.
   >
   > If you have a short-wave radio receiver you can listen to the
   > signals
   > - usually strongest on 5, 10, or 15 MHz. The male voice is from
   > Colorado, the female voice is from Hawaii, in case you can hear
   > both.
   >
   > I can also attest that you can do a LOT of shielding (whether water
   > or metal or snow) and you can still get plenty of HF radio into your
   > house via gaps in the shielding or walls where there is no snow.
   >
   > Garth
   >
   > On Dec 27, 2006, at 4:26 AM, denom wrote:
   >
   >> Thanks for the info. I did an experiment last nite. My atomic
   >> clock faces east and on the opposite side of the wall which faces
   >> Colorado where the signal is supposed to come from I put a gallon
   >> bottle of water. It didn't block the signal to the clock. It
   >> would be interesting to know what it is about the snow storm, snow
   >> shoe, that blocked the signal to the clock.
   >> ----- Original Message -----
   >> From: snoshoe_2
   >> To: eSens@yahoogroups.com
   >> Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 9:08 PM
   >> Subject: [eSens] Re: Water as an emf block
   >>
   >>
   >> I hope everyone's Christmas was better than mine this year! :) Was
   >> sick but good.
   >>
   >> From a previous post, here you go:
   >> "one of the few things that protects
   >> against magnetic fields is water. If there's anyone building a
   >> house, or even greenhouse (which this is used for), it might be
   >> worth
   >> looking into incorporating. It's called "Water Wall Bags". I found
   >> it in a catalog, www.GrowersSupply.com I'd guess it could be gotten
   >> cheaper elsewhere."
   >>
   >> ~ Snoshoe
   >>
   >> --- In eSens@yahoogroups.com, "denom" <denom@...> wrote:
   >>>
   >>> Since you are aware of the effect of water as a emf protection
   >> device you have probably thought about or looked for devices,
   >> products and ways to use water as a shielding device. Are there any
   >> products or strategies or methods that you have found to use
   >> water as
   >> a shield. I do not know enough to myself to contruct such a device
   >> but was thinking maybe lots of aquariums and fish tanks as a
   >> possibility.
   >>> ----- Original Message -----
   >>> From: Gruendg@...
   >>> To: eSens@yahoogroups.com
   >>> Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 6:36 AM
   >>> Subject: Re: [eSens] Water as an emf block
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>
   >>> In einer eMail vom 23.12.2006 02:02:52 Westeuropäische Normalzeit
   >> schreibt
   >>> denom@...:
   >>>
   >>> Recently we had a snow storm here. I have an atomic clock that
   >> stopped
   >>> working during the storm. It just stopped at 4:00. Then after the
   >>> storm was over it began working right again. This tells me that
   >> the
   >>> storm was putting up enough interference that it was blocking the
   >> signal
   >>> from somewhere in Colorado which is where I think it comes from.
   >> Also I
   >>> notice when there are several inches of snow on the roof I feel
   >> better.
   >>> All the shielding I've put up I have not been able to stop the
   >> clock
   >>> from working yet. Somebody needs to invent a double pained window
   >> that
   >>> can contain water to block the emf's.
   >>>
   >>> This is really good news. What is needed i a layer of water about
   >> 1 inch
   >>> thick, to block that radiation, that causes the health problems.
   >> Experimenting
   >>> with elektroacupunkture I have found this. You can also see this
   >> on trees
   >>> especially in autumn near base stations. The leafes on the side
   >> of the base
   >>> station look different than those on the other side, even if they
   >> get nearly the
   >>> same sunshsine. This shows best on cherry trees. Measuring the
   >> negative load
   >>> via electroakupunkture you will also find the leafes on the side
   >> of the base
   >>> station much more negative than on the other side. A friend of
   >> mine, who
   >>> had between his house and the base station some apple trees
   >> experienced in
   >>> summer time less sleeping problems than in winter time, when
   >> there were no leafes
   >>> on the trees.
   >>>
   >>> But on the other hand, using the usual metallic shielding, only
   >> the
   >>> measurable radiation is diminished, the Tesla waves that are
   >> responsible for the
   >>> negative health effect, pass this kind of shielding; but very
   >> strangely they are
   >>> turned positive, measuring them with elekctroacupunkture. That is
   >> the reason
   >>> why ES-peope first profit from this kind of shielding and in the
   >> long run find
   >>> no lasting relief.
   >>>
   >>> Happy Christmas
   >>> Dietrich Gruen
   >>>
   >>
   >>
   >>
   >>
   >>
   >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >>
   >>
   >>
   >>
   >> Yahoo! Groups Links
   >>
   >>
   >>
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > Yahoo! Groups Links
   >
   >
   >





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I also have been struggling with how to get a good night's rest and
wake up refreshed. I have a blanket of velostat on the floor below my
bed which is grounded. A silver lined fabric hanging at the head of my
bed to block the reflection of RF off the wall. The room is painted
with copper paint (and entire surface of ceilings and hallway, all
grounded) and the windows are covered with two materials. The bed is
natural latex foam with no metal, and I still am feeling burning
sensations on my face, stress on my kidneys, and tingling at the
corners of my eyes at night.
Oh, I also where a lead lined hood over my head and turn the power off
at the breaker box.

The sense that I get is that the copper paint is resonating with the
outside RF or some electricity from the ground or from somewhere else
in the house. I have tried sleeping with grounding material touching me
but that drains my energy. I have gotten the ambient body voltage
reading down to .02 mV while I am in bed.

There are so many factors to contend with...
I can understand why another ES person is having trouble sleeping.
Andrew
On Dec 30, 2006, at 7:44 AM, richsurf77 wrote:

> It's funny but it seems to me like my symptoms are either quite good or
> noticably a lot worse. There doesn't seem to be much in between. For
> example when they are bad I know when I switch the computer on the
> normal noise that the desktop case makes seems louder than normal and
> almost like it is vibrating inside my head. And also when they are bad,
> when I wake up in the morning my head feels bad, with my ears ringing
> more and the side of my head that I am lying on feeling like it has
> been crushed and feels bruised. I guess this is possibly because the
> blood vessels are already narrower because of the ES and maybe lying
> with the side of my head on the pillow crushes them even more. And also
> my right shoulder feels hot and aches when I'm on the computer
> probably because I'm right-handed so that's the hand I hold the mouse
> with so I guess my shoulder is being slightly electrocuted!! But I
> wonder why it is not my  hand that fells like this or a lower part of
> my arm?
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--- In eSens@yahoogroups.com, "gilligan_joy" <gilliganjoy@...> wrote:
>
> --- In eSens@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Gilligan, will send it when I have got something ready.
> >
> > The interesting trend that I have noticed so far is that of
people I
> have
> > met or contacted with the severe form of ES, at least 75% (maybe
> more) have
> > some sort of severe immune system dysfunction causing ME, multiple
> chemical
> > sensitivity or similar problems.  These are often helped by
special
> diets
> > and supplements, but often something more is required. The
remaining
> small
> > proportion appear to have had exposure to very high and prolonged
EMF
> > fields, e.g. continued high use of mobile phones and electronic
> equipment
> > over many years (maybe early types of mobile were more damaging).
> >
> > Ian
>
> Yes I have the same impression about immune dysfunction but I
haven't
> put that information on my website yet because I want to be sure
about
> it. In my case I had no immune system dysfunction, but I do think my
> ES was severe because I almost died from it. There must be a way to
> heal the immune dysfunction, such as prolonged and intensive
practice
> of affirmations and very specific prayer, or the very powerful
Quigong
> practices mentioned on my website. The mind can heal anything if it
is
> strong enough and the opposing forces (e.g. electropollution) are
weak
> enough. But I believe the foundation (avoidance, nerve nutrients,
> detoxification, good diet) also needs to be in place, before
> significant gains can be made in healing the immune system.
>
> When the body starts attacking itself even worse diseases than ES
can
> manifest such as cancer or multiple sclerosis.
>
> The key to healing is to get the life force flowing. A strong life
> force can heal absolutely anything. I once read an inspiring story
> about a young woman who discovered she had terminal cancer. Instead
of
> bemoaning her fate, she decided to celebrate life, and give love to
> everything and everyone. She was a real inspiration to all of the
> people around her. Well, guess what? She is now free from cancer.
Love
> is the greatest healer of all.
>
> Gilligan
>


Hi Gilligan,  I have just looked at your site and read several pages
and I was thinking, when you said you were working with disabled
people and you became extremely ill and said that they drained your
energy, are you sure this is what caused it? I am thinking maybe they
lived nearer electricity wires or their homes had poor wiring or they
had devices on that had strong fields. Or another possibility is that
you had recently been exposed to more fields at home and this built
up the wealening of you immune system, because i  have noticed that I
often feel worse after I have used my computer than when i am
actually on it. I am open to your theory as possible but I am not
totally sure it is possible and is the actual cause.

From Richard (UK)

It's funny but it seems to me like my symptoms are either quite good or
noticably a lot worse. There doesn't seem to be much in between. For
example when they are bad I know when I switch the computer on the
normal noise that the desktop case makes seems louder than normal and
almost like it is vibrating inside my head. And also when they are bad,
when I wake up in the morning my head feels bad, with my ears ringing
more and the side of my head that I am lying on feeling like it has
been crushed and feels bruised. I guess this is possibly because the
blood vessels are already narrower because of the ES and maybe lying
with the side of my head on the pillow crushes them even more. And also
my right shoulder feels hot and aches when I'm on the computer
probably because I'm right-handed so that's the hand I hold the mouse
with so I guess my shoulder is being slightly electrocuted!! But I
wonder why it is not my  hand that fells like this or a lower part of
my arm?

Somewhat off topic but are there solar powered light bulbs that can be used at
home? I was in a hotel once that  said had solar powered light. It was very soft
and ethereal. Thanks.
blessings,
Paresh

http://home.earthlink.net/~sunmoonyoga/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Katrina, very interesting.  Agree about the neurological effects -
the point about the immune system aspects is that they may well be a root
cause of the neurological effects in many cases.

You mentioned Martin Pall - we had heard rumours that he had published a
book which Sue would be interested to see (since she can't look at computer
monitors) but can't find any reference to it -do you (or anyone else) know
about it?

Best wishes, Ian

   _____

From: eSens@yahoogroups.com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
kattemayo
Sent: 29 December 2006 10:12
To: eSens@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [eSens] Re: Overcoming Electrical Sensitivity - a new website




Hi Ian,

You wrote:
>>>>The interesting trend that I have noticed so far is that of people I
have
met or contacted with the severe form of ES, at least 75% (maybe more) have
some sort of severe immune system dysfunction causing ME, multiple chemical
sensitivity or similar problems. These are often helped by special diets
and supplements, but often something more is required.<<<<

{Speaking as a person with long term ME, and then MCS and then Esens},

While it is true that ME/CFS at least does involve significant immune
dysfunction, it is largely a Neurological disease, with a great deal of
brain dysfunction.

It is also increasingly considered a disease of Mitochondria malfunction.
For instance, relating to both of these, an MRS brain scan shows that I have
Lactate spikes in 6 of 36 grids of my brain. (These are found very high in
full on Mito disease).
My Neuro-psych testing shows several cognitive deficits, such as in
Executive functioning, that indicate "Right Hempishere Impairment".

I also have Movement Disorders that indicate problem with the Basal Ganglia.

Other brain findings in many ME/CFS patients are:
low blood flow
Lesions, white spots
Apparent inflammation
Various metabolic and neurotransmitter imbalances

Typical also is sensory overload, meaning to lights, sound, movement,
smells...sometimes even touch or conversation/sound of others' voices, or
acute sensitivity to "energy" of others.

One patient's recent autopsy showed inflammation of the dorsal root ganglia,
which is said the be "the gateway to all sensation to the brain."

There is also being found left ventricle ( Diastolic Dysfunction) of the
Heart. This may be a result of the Mitochondria malfunction. Technically
speaking, this DD/Cardiomyopathy is a form of slow heart failure.
Which in itself, effects many functions, including the brain.

Researchers are approaching the disease of ME from many different angles.
Many are relevant, since it is such a multi-system disease!

The majority of longest term ME/CFS researchers still believe it to have
viral origins...particularly those targeting the CNS/Brain, and some, the
Heart, resulting in multi-system malfunctions or injury.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Regarding MCS...there is some very fascinating work by Martin Pall...also
focusing on the brain.
I wonder if someone who understands the EMF effect on the brain might be
interested in his work. just a guess.

Some of those with MCS/CI consider themselves *injured* by chemicals as
opposed to just sensitive or "allergic" to them.

{There may be different mechanisms in MCS/CI without ME/CFS and that that
appears with it ?} Something like that may be true with Esens also?...don't
know.

Anyway, just some food for thought. Especially about CNS and sensory damage.
It seems to me this might relate to Esens as much as just Immune
Dysfunction.
Take care,

Katrina

--- In eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Ian Kemp"
<ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Gilligan, will send it when I have got something ready.
>
> The interesting trend that I have noticed so far is that of people I have
> met or contacted with the severe form of ES, at least 75% (maybe more)
have
> some sort of severe immune system dysfunction causing ME, multiple
chemical
> sensitivity or similar problems. These are often helped by special diets
> and supplements, but often something more is required. The remaining small
> proportion appear to have had exposure to very high and prolonged EMF
> fields, e.g. continued high use of mobile phones and electronic equipment
> over many years (maybe early types of mobile were more damaging).
>
> Ian
>
> _____
>
> From: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of
> gilligan_joy
> Sent: 24 December 2006 16:47
> To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com
> Subject: [eSens] Re: Overcoming Electrical Sensitivity - a new website
>
>
>
> Thanks for your feedback, Ian.
>
> I know very well that the healing program I present will not be
> sufficient for many people to free themselves from the illness, but it
> is an essential foundation, and many people should experience some
> improvement by following it.
>
> When you get your wife's case history together, please let me know and
> I will post it on my website. Has she made progress? I will post it on
> my site regardless. Instead of calling the new section "Success
> Stories", perhaps a better name would be "Case Histories."
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is basically correct.  Trees are also full of water, which is a very
effective absorber of microwave and other EM radiation.  Lots of ES people
find that forest/lake areas are very benign in terms of EMF exposure
(including my wife who slept in a tent in nearby wooded lakes on and off
over a few months when her ES was at its worst - it definitely helped).
Another angle is that companies and individuals have sometimes had to cut
back trees to improve mobile phone or satellite TV reception.
Ian

   _____

From: eSens@yahoogroups.com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
skrzn
Sent: 27 December 2006 20:21
To: eSens@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [eSens] Re: Simple stuff



Warning: this is all speculation, but I think it makes sense - starts with
why I like living in a
forest. So, what's a forest? Lots of trees, and it's wild where I live. So?
Living trees are full of elctrolytes, which are conductors, and grounded
through their roots.
This must be makiing a shield against various forms of radiated energy.

For those who don't live in a forest and do have a house, how about planting
ivy (maybe on
a frame so it doesn't mess with the walls)? Should do some good.

In an apartment, I've seen a whole wall of some kind of ivy-like climbing
plant fed by
hydroponic, and the usual grow lights. The hydroponic should be grounded to
a power
ground. Should do the same thing.

Does anyone know of experience with this?

William






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have had at least 7 different electricians at my houses over the past
6 years and all but one have ever heard that there could be a problem
with tying too many neutrals together. So I totally agree with your
statement Garth and I appreciate the well written explanation in your
email.

Charles Keen at
ck1@...

was the first one to explain it to me and then to a couple of my
electricians so they could eventually fix my house.

If your electrician gives you any crap, contact Charles. He has been
successful in explaining it over the phone. I suggest you make a deal
first with your electrician, that if Charles can explain it and the
electrician finds it true in your house, that the electrician will send
Charles money for phone time.

The electrician is getting schooled, a great continuing education, on
the job training and has a chance to stop making people sick. What is
the price for that? He should definitely not charge you!
Andrew

On Dec 28, 2006, at 2:32 AM, Garth Hitchens wrote:

>  some seem clueless that
> tying neutrals from different circuits together is a bad idea

Hi Ian,

You wrote:
>>>>The interesting trend that I have noticed so far is that of people I have
met or contacted with the severe form of ES, at least 75% (maybe more) have
some sort of severe immune system dysfunction causing ME, multiple chemical
sensitivity or similar problems. These are often helped by special diets
and supplements, but often something more is required.<<<<

{Speaking as a person with long term ME, and then MCS and then Esens},

While it is true that ME/CFS at least does involve significant immune
dysfunction, it is largely a Neurological disease, with a great deal of brain
dysfunction.

It is also increasingly considered a disease of Mitochondria malfunction. For
instance, relating to both of these, an MRS brain scan shows that I have Lactate
spikes in 6 of 36 grids of my brain. (These are found very high in full on Mito
disease).
My Neuro-psych testing shows several cognitive deficits, such as in Executive
functioning, that indicate "Right Hempishere Impairment".

I also have Movement Disorders that indicate problem with the Basal Ganglia.

Other brain findings in many ME/CFS patients are:
low blood flow
Lesions, white spots
Apparent inflammation
Various metabolic and neurotransmitter imbalances

Typical also is sensory overload, meaning to lights, sound, movement,
smells...sometimes even touch or conversation/sound of others' voices, or acute
sensitivity to "energy" of others.

One patient's recent autopsy showed inflammation of the dorsal root ganglia,
which is said the be "the gateway to all sensation to the brain."

There is also being found left ventricle ( Diastolic Dysfunction) of the Heart.
This may be a result of the Mitochondria malfunction. Technically speaking, this
DD/Cardiomyopathy is a form of slow heart failure.
Which in itself, effects many functions, including the brain.

Researchers are approaching the disease of ME from many different angles. Many
are relevant, since it is such a multi-system disease!

The majority of longest term ME/CFS researchers still believe it to have viral
origins...particularly those targeting the CNS/Brain, and some, the Heart,
resulting in multi-system malfunctions or injury.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Regarding MCS...there is some very fascinating work by Martin Pall...also
focusing on the brain.
I wonder if someone who understands the EMF effect on the brain might be
interested in his work. just a guess.

Some of those with MCS/CI consider themselves *injured* by chemicals as opposed
to just sensitive or "allergic" to them.

{There may be different mechanisms in MCS/CI without ME/CFS and that that
appears with it ?} Something like that may be true with Esens also?...don't
know.

Anyway, just some food for thought. Especially about CNS and sensory damage. It
seems to me this might relate to Esens as much as just Immune Dysfunction.
Take care,

Katrina


--- In eSens@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Gilligan, will send it when I have got something ready.
>
> The interesting trend that I have noticed so far is that of people I have
> met or contacted with the severe form of ES, at least 75% (maybe more) have
> some sort of severe immune system dysfunction causing ME, multiple chemical
> sensitivity or similar problems.  These are often helped by special diets
> and supplements, but often something more is required. The remaining small
> proportion appear to have had exposure to very high and prolonged EMF
> fields, e.g. continued high use of mobile phones and electronic equipment
> over many years (maybe early types of mobile were more damaging).
>
> Ian
>
>   _____
>
> From: eSens@yahoogroups.com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> gilligan_joy
> Sent: 24 December 2006 16:47
> To: eSens@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [eSens] Re: Overcoming Electrical Sensitivity - a new website
>
>
>
> Thanks for your feedback, Ian.
>
> I know very well that the healing program I present will not be
> sufficient for many people to free themselves from the illness, but it
> is an essential foundation, and many people should experience some
> improvement by following it.
>
> When you get your wife's case history together, please let me know and
> I will post it on my website. Has she made progress? I will post it on
> my site regardless. Instead of calling the new section "Success
> Stories", perhaps a better name would be "Case Histories."
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Garth,

Yes, extremely helpful. Due to my cognitive disability (from ME/CFS), I can
understand each part...most, anyway, but not retain and co-ordinate it all.
Plus, currently, have no measuring devices.

Moving on to next question regarding this:

>>>>although some seem clueless that tying neutrals from different circuits
together is a bad idea<<<<<

This is the impression I've had. So, in consulting a Professional ( either
through management, a willing friend as a favor OR  someone I'm paying), how can
I establish that they WILL know the whole picture ie: not be clueless?

And, whoever it is, would showing them your post be a good idea?

Thanks,

Katrina



--- In eSens@yahoogroups.com, Garth Hitchens <garth@...> wrote:
>
> I think some wiring problems can be found by a simple socket tester,
> but others (and perhaps the ones more important to ES) are often more
> subtle.   For instance, in 2 separate rooms of my home, I found that
> fields jumped dramatically throughout the room when I turned on an
> appliance.     It took me a while to figure out what was happening.
>
> In both cases, the problem was caused by incorrect 'joining' of
> neutral wires between multiple circuits.  For instance, if there are
> 2 breakers leading from the main panel, breaker A and breaker B,
> feeding circuit A and circuit B, and in some junction box in a
> particular room, the neutrals from circuit A and B are tied together,
> it can cause big problems for ES.
>
> Normally, any currents which are carried by the hot (black) conductor
> of circuit A are returned to the entrance panel by the neutral
> (white) conductor of circuit A, which cancels the magnetic field
> produced by the conductors of circuit A, as the two fields generated
> from the two conductors are carried in the same cable, and the fields
> cancel.   The field from the wiring will be miniscule farther than a
> few inches from the cable.
>
> If, however, the neutrals are tied together, then any appliance or
> light which is plugged in to circuit A draws all of it's current
> through the hot conductor (black wire) of circuit A, but returns only
> half its current via the neutral conductor of circuit A (white wire),
> the remainder being returned through circuit B's neutral (white
> wire).   Assuming circuit B's wire is routed differently than circuit
> A's wire, the fields no longer cancel properly in circuit A, because
> the return/neutral (white) current is only half as strong as the
> supply (black,hot) current.    In addition, the current returning
> through circuit B's neutral is not cancelled by any supply current in
> circuit B, and therefore a strong magnetic and electric field is
> generated around both circuits A and B, which is often detectable
> throughout the room.
>
> It is my opinion that this kind of wiring error is one of the more
> common ways that large electric or magnetic fields are generated in a
> room by wiring.   It is fairly easily corrected by a knowledgeable
> electrician -- neutral wires (and certainly hot wires!) must be kept
> separate for each circuit and not connected to any other circuit, and
> the two current carrying conductors (hot/neutral) for any branch
> should always be routed together.
>
> The telltale sign of this kind of wiring error is that the fields
> jump throughout the room (not just near the appliance) whenever a
> light switch or appliance is turned on, and then return to low values
> when that appliance is turned off.   These fields will be strong even
> if the actual appliance does not produce any field at all.    I have
> a small electric heater which I use for tests, as it draws high
> current but doesn't produce much field.    This makes any wiring
> issues on the circuit quickly apparent as fields throughout the room
> are strongest when current draw is highest.
>
> Some appliances produce high frequency harmonics on the power line
> (computers, for instance).   These devices cause especially acute
> problems when plugged into circuits which are improperly wired, as
> the resulting magnetic/electric field throughout the room then also
> contains high frequency harmonics, which some people (including me)
> find intolerable.  Yes, I have found the stetzer filters helpful in
> this case, but fixing the wiring problem is also required.  No amount
> of filtration can solve the problems of bad wiring.
>
> You can often find the source of the wiring problems by plugging in a
> load (like a portable heater), provoking the strong field, and then
> using a ELF magnetic field meter (trifield works) to scan the wall to
> find the wiring - the strongest fields will be around the wiring.
> Sometimes by following the wiring (using the magnetic field as a
> guide), you can find a junction box where neutrals are improperly
> tied together.   This technique worked for me.
>
> Of course, I would suggest you contact a qualified electrician before
> making any changes to your wiring.   This information should be
> understandable to most electricians, although some seem clueless that
> tying neutrals from different circuits together is a bad idea.
>
> Hope that was helpful -- Garth
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 27, 2006, at 8:39 PM, kattemayo wrote:
>
> >
> > To anyone:
> >
> > as Marc wrote
> >
> >>>>> - some people have miswired outlets, so the lights could
> > be emitting a far greater field than necessary (solution
> > - fix the outlet) <<<<
> >
> > Can I *very easily* determine this myself? Or the Head of
> > Maintainince for my building? Any Electrician friend?
> >
> > Just wondering if there is a simple  no-cost way to determine.
> > Then, what process and cost are needed to fix things.
> >
> > {Does each outlet and fixture get tested/changed individually?}
> >
> > What should I ask for or watch  myself or when asking for help?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Katrina
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

Water >can< shield EMF's, definitely, but it takes a LOT of it, and
saltwater is far more effective than normal water.    Even with
saltwater, the effectiveness varies by frequency.  Although a few
inches of water might stop microwaves (cell phones, etc), lower
frequencies in the HF and ELF range can easily penetrate it.    In
the past, military submarine communications took place via ELF.   In
fact, the frequency used for submarine communication during the cold
war was 76hz, which is very close to our 60hz power line frequency,
so obviously even a LOT of saltwater won't stop 60hz radiation, since
submarines could still receive 76hz even when submerged quite deeply.

The result is that I'm saying that yes, water/snow can block some
higher frequency RF to some degree, but the effect is not strong
enough to be useful for blocking EMF's for electrosensitivity.   Even
sattelite TV dishes which use very high frequency waves are still
mostly functional in rain and snow storms.

Garth






On Dec 27, 2006, at 8:04 PM, denom wrote:

> I would not guess that it was the snow on the roof that was
> blocking the signals since the snow on the roof was still there for
> awhile after the storm stopped and the clock started working
> again.  What you are saying is that it could be that water can
> block emf if the shielding is everywhere.  I will have to try
> another experiment with the clock surrounded by water on all sides
> and if it works then that would prove that water can shield
> frequencies.
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Garth Hitchens
>   To: eSens@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 1:54 PM
>   Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Water as an emf block
>
>
>   This thing about water isn't really a useful test.
>
>   The atomic clock signals from colorado are broadcast on 2.5, 5, 10,
>   15 and 20 mhz. Depending on the time of day and sunspot activity,
>   they could arrive on any one of those frequencies. In addition,
>   because the signals bounce off the ionosphere one or more times, it
>   is likely that the signals are approaching your house at a high
> angle
>   (toward your roof, rather than at the side of your house). Finally,
>   HF radio signals (such as the ones you describe) are absorbed and
> re-
>   radiated by pipes, gutters, wiring, and almost everything else metal
>   inside your house, 'scrambling' the apparent direction of the
> signal.
>
>   Trying to block the WWV signal (time signal) using a gallon of water
>   is kind of like trying to stop an AM radio signal from getting to an
>   AM radio by the same method. It won't work.
>
>   To make matters even more complicated, the national bureau of
>   standards and technologies also broadcasts the time signals on the
>   SAME FREQUENCIES from Hawaii, so depending on time of day and
>   geographic location, you could be picking up the Hawaii signals
> instead.
>
>   If you have a short-wave radio receiver you can listen to the
> signals
>   - usually strongest on 5, 10, or 15 MHz. The male voice is from
>   Colorado, the female voice is from Hawaii, in case you can hear
> both.
>
>   I can also attest that you can do a LOT of shielding (whether water
>   or metal or snow) and you can still get plenty of HF radio into your
>   house via gaps in the shielding or walls where there is no snow.
>
>   Garth
>
>   On Dec 27, 2006, at 4:26 AM, denom wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the info. I did an experiment last nite. My atomic
>> clock faces east and on the opposite side of the wall which faces
>> Colorado where the signal is supposed to come from I put a gallon
>> bottle of water. It didn't block the signal to the clock. It
>> would be interesting to know what it is about the snow storm, snow
>> shoe, that blocked the signal to the clock.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: snoshoe_2
>> To: eSens@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 9:08 PM
>> Subject: [eSens] Re: Water as an emf block
>>
>>
>> I hope everyone's Christmas was better than mine this year! :) Was
>> sick but good.
>>
>> From a previous post, here you go:
>> "one of the few things that protects
>> against magnetic fields is water. If there's anyone building a
>> house, or even greenhouse (which this is used for), it might be
>> worth
>> looking into incorporating. It's called "Water Wall Bags". I found
>> it in a catalog, www.GrowersSupply.com I'd guess it could be gotten
>> cheaper elsewhere."
>>
>> ~ Snoshoe
>>
>> --- In eSens@yahoogroups.com, "denom" <denom@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Since you are aware of the effect of water as a emf protection
>> device you have probably thought about or looked for devices,
>> products and ways to use water as a shielding device. Are there any
>> products or strategies or methods that you have found to use
>> water as
>> a shield. I do not know enough to myself to contruct such a device
>> but was thinking maybe lots of aquariums and fish tanks as a
>> possibility.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Gruendg@...
>>> To: eSens@yahoogroups.com
>>> Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 6:36 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [eSens] Water as an emf block
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In einer eMail vom 23.12.2006 02:02:52 Westeuropäische Normalzeit
>> schreibt
>>> denom@...:
>>>
>>> Recently we had a snow storm here. I have an atomic clock that
>> stopped
>>> working during the storm. It just stopped at 4:00. Then after the
>>> storm was over it began working right again. This tells me that
>> the
>>> storm was putting up enough interference that it was blocking the
>> signal
>>> from somewhere in Colorado which is where I think it comes from.
>> Also I
>>> notice when there are several inches of snow on the roof I feel
>> better.
>>> All the shielding I've put up I have not been able to stop the
>> clock
>>> from working yet. Somebody needs to invent a double pained window
>> that
>>> can contain water to block the emf's.
>>>
>>> This is really good news. What is needed i a layer of water about
>> 1 inch
>>> thick, to block that radiation, that causes the health problems.
>> Experimenting
>>> with elektroacupunkture I have found this. You can also see this
>> on trees
>>> especially in autumn near base stations. The leafes on the side
>> of the base
>>> station look different than those on the other side, even if they
>> get nearly the
>>> same sunshsine. This shows best on cherry trees. Measuring the
>> negative load
>>> via electroakupunkture you will also find the leafes on the side
>> of the base
>>> station much more negative than on the other side. A friend of
>> mine, who
>>> had between his house and the base station some apple trees
>> experienced in
>>> summer time less sleeping problems than in winter time, when
>> there were no leafes
>>> on the trees.
>>>
>>> But on the other hand, using the usual metallic shielding, only
>> the
>>> measurable radiation is diminished, the Tesla waves that are
>> responsible for the
>>> negative health effect, pass this kind of shielding; but very
>> strangely they are
>>> turned positive, measuring them with elekctroacupunkture. That is
>> the reason
>>> why ES-peope first profit from this kind of shielding and in the
>> long run find
>>> no lasting relief.
>>>
>>> Happy Christmas
>>> Dietrich Gruen
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

I think some wiring problems can be found by a simple socket tester,
but others (and perhaps the ones more important to ES) are often more
subtle.   For instance, in 2 separate rooms of my home, I found that
fields jumped dramatically throughout the room when I turned on an
appliance.     It took me a while to figure out what was happening.

In both cases, the problem was caused by incorrect 'joining' of
neutral wires between multiple circuits.  For instance, if there are
2 breakers leading from the main panel, breaker A and breaker B,
feeding circuit A and circuit B, and in some junction box in a
particular room, the neutrals from circuit A and B are tied together,
it can cause big problems for ES.

Normally, any currents which are carried by the hot (black) conductor
of circuit A are returned to the entrance panel by the neutral
(white) conductor of circuit A, which cancels the magnetic field
produced by the conductors of circuit A, as the two fields generated
from the two conductors are carried in the same cable, and the fields
cancel.   The field from the wiring will be miniscule farther than a
few inches from the cable.

If, however, the neutrals are tied together, then any appliance or
light which is plugged in to circuit A draws all of it's current
through the hot conductor (black wire) of circuit A, but returns only
half its current via the neutral conductor of circuit A (white wire),
the remainder being returned through circuit B's neutral (white
wire).   Assuming circuit B's wire is routed differently than circuit
A's wire, the fields no longer cancel properly in circuit A, because
the return/neutral (white) current is only half as strong as the
supply (black,hot) current.    In addition, the current returning
through circuit B's neutral is not cancelled by any supply current in
circuit B, and therefore a strong magnetic and electric field is
generated around both circuits A and B, which is often detectable
throughout the room.

It is my opinion that this kind of wiring error is one of the more
common ways that large electric or magnetic fields are generated in a
room by wiring.   It is fairly easily corrected by a knowledgeable
electrician -- neutral wires (and certainly hot wires!) must be kept
separate for each circuit and not connected to any other circuit, and
the two current carrying conductors (hot/neutral) for any branch
should always be routed together.

The telltale sign of this kind of wiring error is that the fields
jump throughout the room (not just near the appliance) whenever a
light switch or appliance is turned on, and then return to low values
when that appliance is turned off.   These fields will be strong even
if the actual appliance does not produce any field at all.    I have
a small electric heater which I use for tests, as it draws high
current but doesn't produce much field.    This makes any wiring
issues on the circuit quickly apparent as fields throughout the room
are strongest when current draw is highest.

Some appliances produce high frequency harmonics on the power line
(computers, for instance).   These devices cause especially acute
problems when plugged into circuits which are improperly wired, as
the resulting magnetic/electric field throughout the room then also
contains high frequency harmonics, which some people (including me)
find intolerable.  Yes, I have found the stetzer filters helpful in
this case, but fixing the wiring problem is also required.  No amount
of filtration can solve the problems of bad wiring.

You can often find the source of the wiring problems by plugging in a
load (like a portable heater), provoking the strong field, and then
using a ELF magnetic field meter (trifield works) to scan the wall to
find the wiring - the strongest fields will be around the wiring.
Sometimes by following the wiring (using the magnetic field as a
guide), you can find a junction box where neutrals are improperly
tied together.   This technique worked for me.

Of course, I would suggest you contact a qualified electrician before
making any changes to your wiring.   This information should be
understandable to most electricians, although some seem clueless that
tying neutrals from different circuits together is a bad idea.

Hope that was helpful -- Garth










On Dec 27, 2006, at 8:39 PM, kattemayo wrote:

>
> To anyone:
>
> as Marc wrote
>
>>>>> - some people have miswired outlets, so the lights could
> be emitting a far greater field than necessary (solution
> - fix the outlet) <<<<
>
> Can I *very easily* determine this myself? Or the Head of
> Maintainince for my building? Any Electrician friend?
>
> Just wondering if there is a simple  no-cost way to determine.
> Then, what process and cost are needed to fix things.
>
> {Does each outlet and fixture get tested/changed individually?}
>
> What should I ask for or watch  myself or when asking for help?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Katrina
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

kattemayo wrote:
> To anyone:
>
> as Marc wrote
>
>>>>> - some people have miswired outlets, so the lights could
> be emitting a far greater field than necessary (solution
> - fix the outlet) <<<<
>
> Can I *very easily* determine this myself?

Well, it depends... :-)

Some electrical problems are quite hard to figure out.
When I moved into our new house this year, we had a team
of electricians trying to solve one particular problem,
and they had to bring in another expert when they couldn't
figure out what was wrong!

On the other hand, I also found a particular outlet that
was really bothering me, and I replaced it myself -- and
that solved that problem!

(I also have an "outlet tester" to make sure that each
individual outlet is wired correctly)

Marc

To anyone:

as Marc wrote

>>>>- some people have miswired outlets, so the lights could
be emitting a far greater field than necessary (solution
- fix the outlet) <<<<

Can I *very easily* determine this myself? Or the Head of Maintainince for my
building? Any Electrician friend?

Just wondering if there is a simple  no-cost way to determine. Then, what
process and cost are needed to fix things.

{Does each outlet and fixture get tested/changed individually?}

What should I ask for or watch  myself or when asking for help?

Thanks!

Katrina

Marc,

Thank you! Having all in one post will be helpful to me, as I evaluate.
For one, with no expertise, somehow I suspect mis-wiring here.

Katrina

--- In eSens@yahoogroups.com, Marc Martin <marc@...> wrote:
>
> > Could you elaborate...what other proposed causes?
>
> it could be:
>
>   - some people have miswired outlets, so the lights could
>     be emitting a far greater field than necessary (solution
>     - fix the outlet)
>
>   - some people are light sensitive, so it could be the
>     light (solution - get the proper nutrition that fixes
>     your light sensitivity)
>
>   - some people think that it is the quantum mechanical noise
>     caused by the flow of incoherent electrons (solution -
>     add a source of coherent energy which will reduce the
>     overall quantum mechanical noise)
>
>   - if you are bothered by the amount of electricity that
>     is being used by incandescent lights, try the new
>     LED lights which are much lower wattage (but
>     may have their own problems -- see below)
>
>   - if the lights are powered by an outlet controlled by
>     a dimmer switch, you may be bothered by the RF noise
>     of the dimmer switch (solution - replace the dimmer
>     switch with a regular switch)
>
>   - if you have LED lights which feature an AC/DC
>     transformer at the plug, then you may be bothered
>     by the transformer (solution - buy lights without
>     a transformer)
>
>   - if you have LED lights which flicker at 60hz, you may
>     be bothered by the flicker (solution - replace
>     them with LED lights with better circuitry that
>     does not flicker, or replace with incandescent
>     lights)
>
> And there is of course Shivani's suggestion:
>
>   - some people think that it is the high frequency noise in
>     the electricity which is powering your lights (solution
>     - replace the outlet which may have a poor electrical
>     contact with the plug, or add high frequency noise
>     filters in various parts of the house to lower the noise)
>
> Marc
>

I would not guess that it was the snow on the roof that was blocking the signals
since the snow on the roof was still there for awhile after the storm stopped
and the clock started working again.  What you are saying is that it could be
that water can block emf if the shielding is everywhere.  I will have to try
another experiment with the clock surrounded by water on all sides and if it
works then that would prove that water can shield frequencies.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Garth Hitchens
   To: eSens@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 1:54 PM
   Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Water as an emf block


   This thing about water isn't really a useful test.

   The atomic clock signals from colorado are broadcast on 2.5, 5, 10,
   15 and 20 mhz. Depending on the time of day and sunspot activity,
   they could arrive on any one of those frequencies. In addition,
   because the signals bounce off the ionosphere one or more times, it
   is likely that the signals are approaching your house at a high angle
   (toward your roof, rather than at the side of your house). Finally,
   HF radio signals (such as the ones you describe) are absorbed and re-
   radiated by pipes, gutters, wiring, and almost everything else metal
   inside your house, 'scrambling' the apparent direction of the signal.

   Trying to block the WWV signal (time signal) using a gallon of water
   is kind of like trying to stop an AM radio signal from getting to an
   AM radio by the same method. It won't work.

   To make matters even more complicated, the national bureau of
   standards and technologies also broadcasts the time signals on the
   SAME FREQUENCIES from Hawaii, so depending on time of day and
   geographic location, you could be picking up the Hawaii signals instead.

   If you have a short-wave radio receiver you can listen to the signals
   - usually strongest on 5, 10, or 15 MHz. The male voice is from
   Colorado, the female voice is from Hawaii, in case you can hear both.

   I can also attest that you can do a LOT of shielding (whether water
   or metal or snow) and you can still get plenty of HF radio into your
   house via gaps in the shielding or walls where there is no snow.

   Garth

   On Dec 27, 2006, at 4:26 AM, denom wrote:

   > Thanks for the info. I did an experiment last nite. My atomic
   > clock faces east and on the opposite side of the wall which faces
   > Colorado where the signal is supposed to come from I put a gallon
   > bottle of water. It didn't block the signal to the clock. It
   > would be interesting to know what it is about the snow storm, snow
   > shoe, that blocked the signal to the clock.
   > ----- Original Message -----
   > From: snoshoe_2
   > To: eSens@yahoogroups.com
   > Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 9:08 PM
   > Subject: [eSens] Re: Water as an emf block
   >
   >
   > I hope everyone's Christmas was better than mine this year! :) Was
   > sick but good.
   >
   > From a previous post, here you go:
   > "one of the few things that protects
   > against magnetic fields is water. If there's anyone building a
   > house, or even greenhouse (which this is used for), it might be
   > worth
   > looking into incorporating. It's called "Water Wall Bags". I found
   > it in a catalog, www.GrowersSupply.com I'd guess it could be gotten
   > cheaper elsewhere."
   >
   > ~ Snoshoe
   >
   > --- In eSens@yahoogroups.com, "denom" <denom@...> wrote:
   >>
   >> Since you are aware of the effect of water as a emf protection
   > device you have probably thought about or looked for devices,
   > products and ways to use water as a shielding device. Are there any
   > products or strategies or methods that you have found to use
   > water as
   > a shield. I do not know enough to myself to contruct such a device
   > but was thinking maybe lots of aquariums and fish tanks as a
   > possibility.
   >> ----- Original Message -----
   >> From: Gruendg@...
   >> To: eSens@yahoogroups.com
   >> Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 6:36 AM
   >> Subject: Re: [eSens] Water as an emf block
   >>
   >>
   >>
   >> In einer eMail vom 23.12.2006 02:02:52 Westeuropäische Normalzeit
   > schreibt
   >> denom@...:
   >>
   >> Recently we had a snow storm here. I have an atomic clock that
   > stopped
   >> working during the storm. It just stopped at 4:00. Then after the
   >> storm was over it began working right again. This tells me that
   > the
   >> storm was putting up enough interference that it was blocking the
   > signal
   >> from somewhere in Colorado which is where I think it comes from.
   > Also I
   >> notice when there are several inches of snow on the roof I feel
   > better.
   >> All the shielding I've put up I have not been able to stop the
   > clock
   >> from working yet. Somebody needs to invent a double pained window
   > that
   >> can contain water to block the emf's.
   >>
   >> This is really good news. What is needed i a layer of water about
   > 1 inch
   >> thick, to block that radiation, that causes the health problems.
   > Experimenting
   >> with elektroacupunkture I have found this. You can also see this
   > on trees
   >> especially in autumn near base stations. The leafes on the side
   > of the base
   >> station look different than those on the other side, even if they
   > get nearly the
   >> same sunshsine. This shows best on cherry trees. Measuring the
   > negative load
   >> via electroakupunkture you will also find the leafes on the side
   > of the base
   >> station much more negative than on the other side. A friend of
   > mine, who
   >> had between his house and the base station some apple trees
   > experienced in
   >> summer time less sleeping problems than in winter time, when
   > there were no leafes
   >> on the trees.
   >>
   >> But on the other hand, using the usual metallic shielding, only
   > the
   >> measurable radiation is diminished, the Tesla waves that are
   > responsible for the
   >> negative health effect, pass this kind of shielding; but very
   > strangely they are
   >> turned positive, measuring them with elekctroacupunkture. That is
   > the reason
   >> why ES-peope first profit from this kind of shielding and in the
   > long run find
   >> no lasting relief.
   >>
   >> Happy Christmas
   >> Dietrich Gruen
   >>
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > Yahoo! Groups Links
   >
   >
   >





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Warning: this is all speculation, but I think it makes sense - starts with why I
like living in a
forest. So, what's a forest? Lots of trees, and it's wild where I live. So?
Living trees are full of elctrolytes, which are conductors, and grounded through
their roots.
This must be makiing a shield against various forms of radiated energy.

For those who  don't live in a forest and do have a house, how about planting
ivy (maybe on
a frame so it doesn't mess with the walls)? Should do some good.

In an apartment, I've seen a whole wall of some kind of ivy-like climbing plant
fed by
hydroponic, and the usual grow lights. The hydroponic should be grounded to a
power
ground.  Should do the same thing.

Does anyone know of experience with this?

William

This thing about water isn't really a useful test.

The atomic clock signals from colorado are broadcast on 2.5, 5, 10,
15 and 20 mhz.   Depending on the time of day and sunspot activity,
they could arrive on any one of those frequencies.  In addition,
because the signals bounce off the ionosphere one or more times, it
is likely that the signals are approaching your house at a high angle
(toward your roof, rather than at the side of your house).   Finally,
HF radio signals (such as the ones you describe) are absorbed and re-
radiated by pipes, gutters, wiring, and almost everything else metal
inside your house, 'scrambling' the apparent direction of the signal.

Trying to block the WWV signal (time signal) using a gallon of water
is kind of like trying to stop an AM radio signal from getting to an
AM radio by the same method.  It won't work.

To make matters even more complicated, the national bureau of
standards and technologies also broadcasts the time signals on the
SAME FREQUENCIES from Hawaii, so depending on time of day and
geographic location, you could be picking up the Hawaii signals instead.

If you have a short-wave radio receiver you can listen to the signals
- usually strongest on 5, 10, or 15 MHz.   The male voice is from
Colorado, the female voice is from Hawaii, in case you can hear both.

I can also attest that you can do a LOT of shielding (whether water
or metal or snow) and you can still get plenty of HF radio into your
house via gaps in the shielding or walls where there is no snow.

Garth

On Dec 27, 2006, at 4:26 AM, denom wrote:

> Thanks for the info.  I did an experiment last nite.  My atomic
> clock faces east and on the opposite side of the wall which faces
> Colorado where the signal is supposed to come from I put a gallon
> bottle of water.  It didn't block the signal to the clock.  It
> would be interesting to know what it is about the snow storm, snow
> shoe, that blocked the signal to the clock.
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: snoshoe_2
>   To: eSens@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 9:08 PM
>   Subject: [eSens] Re: Water as an emf block
>
>
>   I hope everyone's Christmas was better than mine this year! :) Was
>   sick but good.
>
>   From a previous post, here you go:
>   "one of the few things that protects
>   against magnetic fields is water. If there's anyone building a
>   house, or even greenhouse (which this is used for), it might be
> worth
>   looking into incorporating. It's called "Water Wall Bags". I found
>   it in a catalog, www.GrowersSupply.com I'd guess it could be gotten
>   cheaper elsewhere."
>
>   ~ Snoshoe
>
>   --- In eSens@yahoogroups.com, "denom" <denom@...> wrote:
>>
>> Since you are aware of the effect of water as a emf protection
>   device you have probably thought about or looked for devices,
>   products and ways to use water as a shielding device. Are there any
>   products or strategies or methods that you have found to use
> water as
>   a shield. I do not know enough to myself to contruct such a device
>   but was thinking maybe lots of aquariums and fish tanks as a
>   possibility.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Gruendg@...
>> To: eSens@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 6:36 AM
>> Subject: Re: [eSens] Water as an emf block
>>
>>
>>
>> In einer eMail vom 23.12.2006 02:02:52 Westeuropäische Normalzeit
>   schreibt
>> denom@...:
>>
>> Recently we had a snow storm here. I have an atomic clock that
>   stopped
>> working during the storm. It just stopped at 4:00. Then after the
>> storm was over it began working right again. This tells me that
>   the
>> storm was putting up enough interference that it was blocking the
>   signal
>> from somewhere in Colorado which is where I think it comes from.
>   Also I
>> notice when there are several inches of snow on the roof I feel
>   better.
>> All the shielding I've put up I have not been able to stop the
>   clock
>> from working yet. Somebody needs to invent a double pained window
>   that
>> can contain water to block the emf's.
>>
>> This is really good news. What is needed i a layer of water about
>   1 inch
>> thick, to block that radiation, that causes the health problems.
>   Experimenting
>> with elektroacupunkture I have found this. You can also see this
>   on trees
>> especially in autumn near base stations. The leafes on the side
>   of the base
>> station look different than those on the other side, even if they
>   get nearly the
>> same sunshsine. This shows best on cherry trees. Measuring the
>   negative load
>> via electroakupunkture you will also find the leafes on the side
>   of the base
>> station much more negative than on the other side. A friend of
>   mine, who
>> had between his house and the base station some apple trees
>   experienced in
>> summer time less sleeping problems than in winter time, when
>   there were no leafes
>> on the trees.
>>
>> But on the other hand, using the usual metallic shielding, only
>   the
>> measurable radiation is diminished, the Tesla waves that are
>   responsible for the
>> negative health effect, pass this kind of shielding; but very
>   strangely they are
>> turned positive, measuring them with elekctroacupunkture. That is
>   the reason
>> why ES-peope first profit from this kind of shielding and in the
>   long run find
>> no lasting relief.
>>
>> Happy Christmas
>> Dietrich Gruen
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

--- In eSens@yahoogroups.com, "denom" <denom@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the info.  I did an experiment last nite.  My atomic
clock faces east and on the opposite side of the wall which faces
Colorado where the signal is supposed to come from I put a gallon
bottle of water.  It didn't block the signal to the clock.  It would
be interesting to know what it is about the snow storm, snow shoe,
that blocked the signal to the clock.

** Try placing the clock inside a large pan of water, maybe in a
bathtub, so it is completely covered by a lot of water.  Of course,
the clock would need to be protected by a bag or in a watertight
container.  Also, you may need some impurities in the water, like the
snow, maybe add a small amount of dirt or salt.

The theory here - EMF can often bend around a single jug of water.
Microwave or similar signals do not bend, but many other signals do.
The snow was like a blanket, around the house, so the blockage was
very complete.

I am actually fascinated by this, and am reminded that this is
consistent with the fact that ordinary radio waves do not penetrate
the oceans, submarines must float an antenna to the surface to
communicate using ordinary radio signals.

--Kurt

Thanks for the info.  I did an experiment last nite.  My atomic clock faces east
and on the opposite side of the wall which faces Colorado where the signal is
supposed to come from I put a gallon bottle of water.  It didn't block the
signal to the clock.  It would be interesting to know what it is about the snow
storm, snow shoe, that blocked the signal to the clock.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: snoshoe_2
   To: eSens@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 9:08 PM
   Subject: [eSens] Re: Water as an emf block


   I hope everyone's Christmas was better than mine this year! :) Was
   sick but good.

   From a previous post, here you go:
   "one of the few things that protects
   against magnetic fields is water. If there's anyone building a
   house, or even greenhouse (which this is used for), it might be worth
   looking into incorporating. It's called "Water Wall Bags". I found
   it in a catalog, www.GrowersSupply.com I'd guess it could be gotten
   cheaper elsewhere."

   ~ Snoshoe

   --- In eSens@yahoogroups.com, "denom" <denom@...> wrote:
   >
   > Since you are aware of the effect of water as a emf protection
   device you have probably thought about or looked for devices,
   products and ways to use water as a shielding device. Are there any
   products or strategies or methods that you have found to use water as
   a shield. I do not know enough to myself to contruct such a device
   but was thinking maybe lots of aquariums and fish tanks as a
   possibility.
   > ----- Original Message -----
   > From: Gruendg@...
   > To: eSens@yahoogroups.com
   > Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 6:36 AM
   > Subject: Re: [eSens] Water as an emf block
   >
   >
   >
   > In einer eMail vom 23.12.2006 02:02:52 Westeuropäische Normalzeit
   schreibt
   > denom@...:
   >
   > Recently we had a snow storm here. I have an atomic clock that
   stopped
   > working during the storm. It just stopped at 4:00. Then after the
   > storm was over it began working right again. This tells me that
   the
   > storm was putting up enough interference that it was blocking the
   signal
   > from somewhere in Colorado which is where I think it comes from.
   Also I
   > notice when there are several inches of snow on the roof I feel
   better.
   > All the shielding I've put up I have not been able to stop the
   clock
   > from working yet. Somebody needs to invent a double pained window
   that
   > can contain water to block the emf's.
   >
   > This is really good news. What is needed i a layer of water about
   1 inch
   > thick, to block that radiation, that causes the health problems.
   Experimenting
   > with elektroacupunkture I have found this. You can also see this
   on trees
   > especially in autumn near base stations. The leafes on the side
   of the base
   > station look different than those on the other side, even if they
   get nearly the
   > same sunshsine. This shows best on cherry trees. Measuring the
   negative load
   > via electroakupunkture you will also find the leafes on the side
   of the base
   > station much more negative than on the other side. A friend of
   mine, who
   > had between his house and the base station some apple trees
   experienced in
   > summer time less sleeping problems than in winter time, when
   there were no leafes
   > on the trees.
   >
   > But on the other hand, using the usual metallic shielding, only
   the
   > measurable radiation is diminished, the Tesla waves that are
   responsible for the
   > negative health effect, pass this kind of shielding; but very
   strangely they are
   > turned positive, measuring them with elekctroacupunkture. That is
   the reason
   > why ES-peope first profit from this kind of shielding and in the
   long run find
   > no lasting relief.
   >
   > Happy Christmas
   > Dietrich Gruen
   >





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I hope everyone's Christmas was better than mine this year! :) Was
sick but good.

From a previous post, here you go:
"one of the few things that protects
against magnetic fields is water. If there's anyone building a
house, or even greenhouse (which this is used for), it might be worth
looking into incorporating. It's called "Water Wall Bags". I found
it in a catalog, www.GrowersSupply.com I'd guess it could be gotten
cheaper elsewhere."

~ Snoshoe


--- In eSens@yahoogroups.com, "denom" <denom@...> wrote:
>
> Since you are aware of the effect of water as a emf protection
device you have probably thought about or looked for devices,
products and ways to use water as a shielding device.  Are there any
products or strategies or methods that you have found to use water as
a shield.  I do not know enough to myself to contruct such a device
but was thinking maybe lots of aquariums and fish tanks as a
possibility.
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Gruendg@...
>   To: eSens@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 6:36 AM
>   Subject: Re: [eSens] Water as an emf block
>
>
>
>   In einer eMail vom 23.12.2006 02:02:52 Westeuropäische Normalzeit
schreibt
>   denom@...:
>
>   Recently we had a snow storm here. I have an atomic clock that
stopped
>   working during the storm. It just stopped at 4:00. Then after the
>   storm was over it began working right again. This tells me that
the
>   storm was putting up enough interference that it was blocking the
signal
>   from somewhere in Colorado which is where I think it comes from.
Also I
>   notice when there are several inches of snow on the roof I feel
better.
>   All the shielding I've put up I have not been able to stop the
clock
>   from working yet. Somebody needs to invent a double pained window
that
>   can contain water to block the emf's.
>
>   This is really good news. What is needed i a layer of water about
1 inch
>   thick, to block that radiation, that causes the health problems.
Experimenting
>   with elektroacupunkture I have found this. You can also see this
on trees
>   especially in autumn near base stations. The leafes on the side
of the base
>   station look different than those on the other side, even if they
get nearly the
>   same sunshsine. This shows best on cherry trees. Measuring the
negative load
>   via electroakupunkture you will also find the leafes on the side
of the base
>   station much more negative than on the other side. A friend of
mine, who
>   had between his house and the base station some apple trees
experienced in
>   summer time less sleeping problems than in winter time, when
there were no leafes
>   on the trees.
>
>   But on the other hand, using the usual metallic shielding, only
the
>   measurable radiation is diminished, the Tesla waves that are
responsible for the
>   negative health effect, pass this kind of shielding; but very
strangely they are
>   turned positive, measuring them with elekctroacupunkture. That is
the reason
>   why ES-peope first profit from this kind of shielding and in the
long run find
>   no lasting relief.
>
>   Happy Christmas
>   Dietrich Gruen
>