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From: Jim Doran doran_jim@...
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 8:51 AM
Actually McRae is incorrect. Mac needs to read the DSM IV on PTSD which lays out the causes. PTSD was first recognized, in the Civil War, as "Soldier's Heart". In WWI it was known as "Shell Shock" and in WWII it was called "Battle Fatigue."
However, the root causes of PTSD are:
Diagnostic Criteria
The person has been exposed to a traumatic event in which both of the following were present:
1. the person experienced, witnessed, or was confronted with an event or events that involved actual or threatened death or serious
injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of self or others
However, the root causes of PTSD are:
Diagnostic Criteria
The person has been exposed to a traumatic event in which both of the following were present:
1. the person experienced, witnessed, or was confronted with an event or events that involved actual or threatened death or serious
injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of self or others
2. the person's response involved intense fear, helplessness, or horror. Note: In children, this may be expressed instead by
disorganized or agitated behavior
The traumatic event is persistently reexperienced in one (or more) of the following ways:
1. recurrent and intrusive distressing recollections of the event, including images, thoughts, or perceptions. Note: In young children, repetitive play may occur in which themes or aspects of the trauma are expressed.
2. recurrent distressing dreams of the event. Note: In children, there may be frightening dreams without recognizable content.
3. acting or feeling as if the traumatic event were recurring (includes a sense of reliving the experience, illusions, hallucinations, and dissociative flashback episodes, including those that occur on awakening or when intoxicated).Note: In young children, trauma-specific reenactment may occur.
4. intense psychological distress at exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic
event physiological reactivity on exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event
What the hell kind of a statement is this.... ("There was a time that PTSD was reserved for veterans that were in combat")... this
statment is like saying the VA should will only pay you for cancer is you got it from eating c-rations.. what the hell is wrong with
you.. people get PTSD from all sorts of things .. the biggest group of people that live with PTSD in country are woman that have been raped, next on the list is people that were abused and betten as children... I know when I was in Nam we never knew who when or were we would get hit from... there are guys getting claims through that were in the gulf war in 91 that never saw shit but feared for thier lives just like all the rest of us.. you my friend need to do some researce on the subject you are talking about...
granted there are many many wantabees and frauds but if you were in a combat zone you feard for you life or 90% of us did at one time or the other...I had a friend that watched 3 kids blown up right in front of him .. he was a ammo dump worker.. do you think that affected his mind.. you bet it did and he's now a perminet fixture in the VA .. he's so screwed that he will never get out.. and you tell me he dosen't deserve his 100%.. I myself was a ammo driver in Nam for a few months..I had 11 grunts and my Co-driver blown up while I was parking the truck to let these grunts off.. I had 2 face to face shoot outs with gooks only 2 weeks apart.. this all happened before I ever even went to the field .. the first encounter was my second day in country a kid shot at with a pistol, right at my face from about 30 feet away, I saw the flash them the caseing eject and then him running I was looking down the barrel of the gun when he fired it. but I was moveing and he was to stupid to lead me or I would have been dead today... I'm 100% do you think that effected me.. well I'm hear to tell you it did..mister.... was that a stressor ??? no way !!! because I could not verify it...
Again I do agree with much of stolden Valor but everybody fought their own war.. you ask 10 vet's that were in the same shoot out and you'll get 10 story's all different... so be careful what you say your not them you don't know... everybody is different.. some things affect people in different ways.... Tom
One problem in life , people do not listen , or have faith in others . I explain to my son , when you chamber a round in a gun to shoot a man , you tremble inside , then become steady , or when a gun is within inches of your head , you shake so bad on the inside . This happened to me one nite , lieing on a rock , I do not see how the ground was not shaking . But the six o'clock news guru , or T V does not show the true reactions .
In my opion , if a man or woman did not draw combat pay , they should not qualify to even fill out the paper work.
"Stolen Valor makes clear why, intentionally or not, events like "The Sixties" slander all those who served in Vietnam. The fact is that Vietnam veterans have fared as well or better than any other generation of warriors, and it's about time that the myths that have tainted America's view of Vietnam veterans are put to rest. By unmasking the despicable phonies who have stolen the honor of the
> legitimate Vietnam veterans and exposing the complicity of the press in this theft, Mr. Burkett has done an immense service to his fellow veterans, and by extension to his country."
disorganized or agitated behavior
The traumatic event is persistently reexperienced in one (or more) of the following ways:
1. recurrent and intrusive distressing recollections of the event, including images, thoughts, or perceptions. Note: In young children, repetitive play may occur in which themes or aspects of the trauma are expressed.
2. recurrent distressing dreams of the event. Note: In children, there may be frightening dreams without recognizable content.
3. acting or feeling as if the traumatic event were recurring (includes a sense of reliving the experience, illusions, hallucinations, and dissociative flashback episodes, including those that occur on awakening or when intoxicated).Note: In young children, trauma-specific reenactment may occur.
4. intense psychological distress at exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic
event physiological reactivity on exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event
From: toby549_99 toby549_99@...
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 9:17 AM
What the hell kind of a statement is this.... ("There was a time that PTSD was reserved for veterans that were in combat")... this
statment is like saying the VA should will only pay you for cancer is you got it from eating c-rations.. what the hell is wrong with
you.. people get PTSD from all sorts of things .. the biggest group of people that live with PTSD in country are woman that have been raped, next on the list is people that were abused and betten as children... I know when I was in Nam we never knew who when or were we would get hit from... there are guys getting claims through that were in the gulf war in 91 that never saw shit but feared for thier lives just like all the rest of us.. you my friend need to do some researce on the subject you are talking about...
granted there are many many wantabees and frauds but if you were in a combat zone you feard for you life or 90% of us did at one time or the other...I had a friend that watched 3 kids blown up right in front of him .. he was a ammo dump worker.. do you think that affected his mind.. you bet it did and he's now a perminet fixture in the VA .. he's so screwed that he will never get out.. and you tell me he dosen't deserve his 100%.. I myself was a ammo driver in Nam for a few months..I had 11 grunts and my Co-driver blown up while I was parking the truck to let these grunts off.. I had 2 face to face shoot outs with gooks only 2 weeks apart.. this all happened before I ever even went to the field .. the first encounter was my second day in country a kid shot at with a pistol, right at my face from about 30 feet away, I saw the flash them the caseing eject and then him running I was looking down the barrel of the gun when he fired it. but I was moveing and he was to stupid to lead me or I would have been dead today... I'm 100% do you think that effected me.. well I'm hear to tell you it did..mister.... was that a stressor ??? no way !!! because I could not verify it...
Again I do agree with much of stolden Valor but everybody fought their own war.. you ask 10 vet's that were in the same shoot out and you'll get 10 story's all different... so be careful what you say your not them you don't know... everybody is different.. some things affect people in different ways.... Tom
From: william cowart wmcowart@...
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 9:20 AM
This is so true , and I agree 100%. I see a lot of it local. Also, I was told by a lady at the VA in Dallas , that has worked there for 25 years, that service to real honorable vets was hinderedby serverly by two things. Those with less than honorable discharges, meaning people who got out at 6 months to a year ( example, boot camp messed up their heads, I have a brother like that, that actualy gets the same as me, and now trying to up grade to total on PTSD, never left NAS Lemoore, Calif, less than 1 year service.} The other hinder, she told me was, upper middle management or admistrators. On the PTSD thing , I broke down a little less than a year ago , at home , my best counceler , my wife. Between cancer nd breaking down , it has given our marriage strength , beyond belief . Although , I will note here that I did not suffer the same , as those in the jungles did , but dead is dead , jungles or ship board . It is my expierence , you humbly learn to deal with it , which strengthens you , and move on .
One problem in life , people do not listen , or have faith in others . I explain to my son , when you chamber a round in a gun to shoot a man , you tremble inside , then become steady , or when a gun is within inches of your head , you shake so bad on the inside . This happened to me one nite , lieing on a rock , I do not see how the ground was not shaking . But the six o'clock news guru , or T V does not show the true reactions .
In my opion , if a man or woman did not draw combat pay , they should not qualify to even fill out the paper work.
Bill C
--- Robert White <etihwr2@...> wrote:
From: CMcRae highlander1754@...
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 1:11 AM
I read "Stolen Valor" over the weekend. It really opened my eyes, especially the way PTSD was initially started by the VA. What really bothers me is the veterans that really suffer from PTSD have to go through hell to get their claim approved because they're competing with fraud cases and wannabes. There was a time that PTSD was reserved for veterans that were in combat, but I've saw guys rated for being stabbed by their girlfriends in the states. Any type of "stressor" will fit the bill now. It just aint right...........
McRae
********
http://www.claremont.org/writings/000213owens.html?FORMAT=print--- Robert White <etihwr2@...> wrote:
From: CMcRae highlander1754@...
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 1:11 AM
I read "Stolen Valor" over the weekend. It really opened my eyes, especially the way PTSD was initially started by the VA. What really bothers me is the veterans that really suffer from PTSD have to go through hell to get their claim approved because they're competing with fraud cases and wannabes. There was a time that PTSD was reserved for veterans that were in combat, but I've saw guys rated for being stabbed by their girlfriends in the states. Any type of "stressor" will fit the bill now. It just aint right...........
McRae
********
"Stolen Valor makes clear why, intentionally or not, events like "The Sixties" slander all those who served in Vietnam. The fact is that Vietnam veterans have fared as well or better than any other generation of warriors, and it's about time that the myths that have tainted America's view of Vietnam veterans are put to rest. By unmasking the despicable phonies who have stolen the honor of the
> legitimate Vietnam veterans and exposing the complicity of the press in this theft, Mr. Burkett has done an immense service to his fellow veterans, and by extension to his country."
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