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e-mail reply (?) from Noam Chomsky ...   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #27603 of 61335 |
Re: Therapy Affirms the Status Quo

Ray,

Your points are well-taken. Your critique of psychotherapy was certainly
intelligent. I have some agreements and some bones to pick.

1. You mentioned that most therapists are biomedical in their beliefs. I don't
know if this is actually the case. It's certainly true within psychiatry, but I
know many therapists who are more psychosocially oriented. However, there can
be no doubt that therapists of all sorts (counselors, social workers,
psychologists, an the like) are all becoming more biologically oriented. This
is indeed troubling given that advances in psychiatric medication have been
meager at best over the past 50 years.

2. You stated that therapy generally operates in a pro-status quo fashion; that
is, therapists support the current social structure. I bet that most therapists
are nominally liberal (they vote Democrat or whatever the so-called “liberal”
party where they vote), but not to the point where they would support any plans
for radical social change. I would thus agree that most therapists are not very
concerned with social forces when they engage in performing therapy. There are
certainly exceptions to this rule; many feminist therapists (or derivatives
thereof) frequently discuss social structure.

2b. My take is that social forces are important, but they are not a big issue
for many clients. In America, for example, many clients are filling their
socially endorsed roles as consumers, parents, and employees who don’t question
authority. If these roles are not themselves part of the problem, it seems
strange to try to correct them.

2c. If a client is not conforming, then that may not at all be a sign of
individual “pathology,” so to speak. Gandhi, MLK, etc. – not conformists. We
need more people to not conform if true social change is to be enacted. But a
therapist should point out the consequences that are likely to ensue from
nonconformity. Just because a client is operating from the moral high ground in
an unjust system does not mean that therapists should resort to cheerleading.

3. Yes, therapists often view client’s problems on an individual level. It is
pretty hard to help anyone outside the client make changes, so it makes the most
sense to focus on the client.

4. Some therapists do indeed claim a lot of expertise in areas well outside of
their competence. Shame on them for doing so. I’m not a fan of claiming a lot
of expertise in areas that I don’t know anything about.

5. The evidence is fairly clear that psychotherapy alleviates emotional
distress. Meds often do the same, but the long-term outcome (at least for
depression and anxiety) is better with psychotherapy. That being said, many
people are not helped substantially or at all by treatment. Psychotherapy is
well short of a cure-all. Indeed, not a lot of progress has really been made in
improving psychotherapy outcomes for quite some time. Chasing ambulances and
giving psychological “help” to people who don’t want it is a different matter –
it shouldn’t be done. But providing individual or group therapy to people who
seek services is often a reasonable solution. I’d love to see the social
changes you alluded to, but I’m sticking with supporting psychotherapy (noting
the above caveats) in the meantime.



CP



Clinical Psychology & Psychiatry: A Closer Look
http://clinpsyc.blogspot.com
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Wed Jan 3, 2007 6:12 pm

clpsy109
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Message #27603 of 61335 |
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Hi All, Psychiatry and therapy go together hand and hand. While it is true that drugs have replaced one on one counselling, counselling/therapy is still in the...
Raymond Williams
williamrayj3
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Jan 3, 2007
7:02 am

Ray, Your points are well-taken. Your critique of psychotherapy was certainly intelligent. I have some agreements and some bones to pick. 1. You mentioned...
Clinical Psych Blog
clpsy109
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Jan 3, 2007
6:18 pm

Hi Cp, First of all, you act under the assumption that therapists have some esoteric knowledge and wisdom not possessed by 'clients'. There is no evidence...
Raymond Williams
williamrayj3
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Jan 4, 2007
2:02 am

Ray, There is substantial evidence that psychotherapy works to alleviate symptoms. Go to PubMed and type in psychotherapy and meta-analysis and see what you...
clpsy109
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Jan 4, 2007
7:56 pm

With all the lies involved in psych, why would anyone believe Psychotherapy would do anything but make more Psychotherapy? Yes the therapist is done with you ....
bobbygee68t
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Jan 4, 2007
8:41 pm

I recall my dear , dear , mother saying how nice to have a psychotherapist away from the abuse at the VA. This Psychotherapist was the same one who had me...
bobbygee68t
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Jan 4, 2007
9:08 pm

A street whore is a better healer, because they dont go after your insurance , and if you turn your back on them , they go for someone else with cash. Turn...
bobbygee68t
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Jan 4, 2007
10:03 pm

Is the new dog a good house guard Robert ? cyndixx bobbygee68t <guru82892@...> wrote: A street whore is a better healer, because they dont go after...
Cornishcynders
lazy.poet
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Jan 4, 2007
10:22 pm

He is a very good guard dog Cindi. I made a bench into a dog house and used 2 , 100 watt lightbulbs behind sheet metal flashing , at the end of it , to heat it...
bobbygee68t
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Jan 5, 2007
6:25 am

I'm glad of that .Sounds like you two are great buddies. Dont know if you read but Steve is supposed to be ''clean'' now ,well sorry I dont believe it. I feel...
Cornishcynders
lazy.poet
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Jan 5, 2007
9:59 pm

Hi Bobby, You wrote: "Psycho the rapist Psychotherapist Strange name wouldnt you say?" Yes, somelwhat strange, but true. Ray bobbygee68t...
Raymond Williams
williamrayj3
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Jan 7, 2007
12:43 am

They know , nobody pays any attention to it except its victims. Bobby ... http://au.messenger.yahoo.com...
bobbygee68t
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Jan 7, 2007
1:09 am

Hi Bobby, There are some who do pay attention. I am both an academic in the area as well as a person who has experienced the 'patient' side of things. I am...
Raymond Williams
williamrayj3
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Jan 7, 2007
1:22 am

Thanks, Bobby ... area as well as a person who has experienced the 'patient' side of things. ... not socially, politically or emotionally 'in the situation'....
bobbygee68t
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Jan 7, 2007
6:19 am

But of course Ray , I know all about the cruel joke . Im still laughing about the last post! I hope everyone else is too . What a god dam unholy mess they make...
bobbygee68t
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Jan 8, 2007
3:51 am

Hi, First of all I note you don't give me a name to respond to , but use mine. Anyway, you wrote: "There is substantial evidence that psychotherapy works to...
Raymond Williams
williamrayj3
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Jan 5, 2007
8:10 am

Ray, I'll gladly provide evidence. Here's a list. Anyone can go to PubMed and look up similar studies with relative ease: Lipsey MW, Wilson DB. The efficacy...
clpsy109
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Jan 5, 2007
9:53 pm

Hi, You wrote: "I get the feeling that I would have to speak an entirely different language to avoid being picked apart, so I'll continue to use my same ...
Raymond Williams
williamrayj3
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Jan 7, 2007
1:01 am

Hi Anonymous Person, I thought I respond quickly to some of those 'substantial studies' into therapy you listed. You're not serious are you? You claim to be a...
Raymond Williams
williamrayj3
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Jan 7, 2007
2:04 am

Ray, I’m not a particularly big fan of you suggesting I’m on a “moral high horse,” but maybe I am. If so, I’m not seeing it, but perhaps my...
Clinical Psych Blog
clpsy109
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Jan 7, 2007
9:33 pm

Hi CP ,may I ask what position you hold academically ? I just wondered that's all . If you are a psychiatrist ,do you also have psych probs of your own ?Cant...
Cornishcynders
lazy.poet
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Jan 7, 2007
10:13 pm

Cyndersx, I hold a position in academic psychology. I'm not a psychiatrist -- my training (Ph.D.) is in clinical psychology. Due to the topics I discuss on my...
clpsy109
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Jan 8, 2007
9:49 pm

Well I guess we make good practice for you ! lol clpsy109 <clpsy109@...> wrote: Cyndersx, I hold a position in academic...
Cornishcynders
lazy.poet
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Jan 8, 2007
10:32 pm

Hi Identity Hidden, And if you haven't even got the political guts to state your views openly how could we expect your research, with your name on it, to have...
Raymond Williams
williamrayj3
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Jan 9, 2007
6:31 am

Thanks Ray. For the time being, I am done responding to your posts. If we can't be even somewhat collegial, I have no need to play this game anymore. CP ... ...
clpsy109
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Jan 10, 2007
2:52 am

Hi Cp, The difficulty is you're treating this area like a one way mirror where you watch others and respond without them knowing where or who you are. If you...
Raymond Williams
williamrayj3
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Jan 10, 2007
8:10 am

Hi Whatever Your Name is, Let’s put some sound therapeutic principles into practice and you tell me how you’d deal with it differently than our resident...
Raymond Williams
williamrayj3
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Jan 9, 2007
10:35 pm

Ray, HA! That was an excellent parody of therapy. Bravo! Of course therapists claim to be nonjudgmental, but of course they have their own values, which I...
clpsy109
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Jan 10, 2007
2:47 am

Hi, I need to think a bit before I respond to your email. Thanks for the compliment regarding the parody. You can have it and use it with your students.I...
Raymond Williams
williamrayj3
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Jan 10, 2007
7:59 am

Hi Anonymous Person, First of all I simply used Eysenck as an example to illustrate a point. He may be 'dated', but was certainly more rigorous than the...
Raymond Williams
williamrayj3
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Jan 8, 2007
6:29 am
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