I just had my first craniosacral therapy session.  It was one of the
most powerful things I have experienced.  But after and still 6
hours later I am finding myself very emotional like I am grieving
lots of deep breaths and sighs and very drained.  Is this to be
expected and if so how long does it usually last.

Thank You anyone for your help

Kathy

I am looking to find a practitioner in the Leicester area, but am having no
luck.  I am particularly looking for anyone who trained with CTET or Karuna.

fingers crossed...

many thanks

Mary Lennox

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo

Hi Chad

Try Todd Welden in Aspen CO  970-544-1918.  If he can't help you he
should be able to point you in the right direction.

good luck,
Jerry Moreau
San Diego, CA




--- In craniosacralnetwork@yahoogroups.com, "shouright44"
<shouright44@y...> wrote:
> Can anyone direct me to a Craniosacral Therapist in the Denver
area
> who works well with newborns?
>
> Thanks,
> Chad Hagans

I explored the website and still don't know anything
more about it than I did after reading your e-mail.

CH


--- dalmudlee <pfourier@...> wrote:

> Hi Group Members,
>
> My personal experience with CST has been a positive
> one, but I feel something is missing.  Therefore, am
> enclosing a Hotlink to BCS... please explore it
> fully.  Of all the time and money patients spend
> treating chronic problems using CST, this very
> similar BCS modality appears to target the root
> cause and claims to restore health in only three
> minutes!
>
> A system that's able to accomplish so much so
> quickly on a consistent basis has got to be a
> winner!  The pre-birth stuff is very intriguing
> also. I am SHOCKED, though, that they want $5,000
> for a four day training.  If you know somebody or
> have had first hand experience yourself with BCS, I
> would encourage you to post your feelings.
>
>
> http://www.biocranial.com/
>
> Thanks,
>
> Lee



_______________________________
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Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com

Can anyone direct me to a Craniosacral Therapist in the Denver area
who works well with newborns?

Thanks,
Chad Hagans

Hi Jade,

It would certainly be worth a try.  i just posted a note about autism that
might answer some of your questions.  I have been working with Autism for
about 8 years and have had some very good results.  Some of the kids I have
worked with have been mainstreamed, others have stopped biting the family
dog and some have been able to sit and listen to a story.

Many times what is happening with hyperactivity and aggressive behaviour is
that a nerve is being compressed at the base of the skull.  It's called the
Vagus and one of its functions is to control our ability to releax. Quite
often with hyperactivity, the nerves ability to function is affected.

With Autism it seems that the membrane that surrounds our nervous system
becomes copmressed and its eleastic quality is greatly impaired.  that puts
a great deal of pressure on the nervous system...kinda like wearing a pair
of jeans that are 5 or 6 sizes too small for us.  The result can be some
pretty intense behaviour.  the releasing of the tension in the system can
take numerous sessions and usually requires semi-regular treatment to
maintain it. We can't give an exact number as everbody is different but in
my opinion it is well worth it.

I hope this helps out a bit.  If you need help locating a therapist, let us
know and we'll try and help.

Dave Tomlinson

>From: "bty741351" <jade.elizabeth@...>
>Reply-To: craniosacralnetwork@yahoogroups.com
>To: craniosacralnetwork@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Craniosacral Network] Would this help my AUtistic son?
>Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 07:09:12 -0000
>
>My son is 5 and is high functioning Autisitc with hyperactivity.
>Would Craniosacral help him.  At the moment the Docs are talking
>about meds to calm him down as he can get agressive, hyper and
>basically a pain in the butt.  He doesnt make friends as he
>appears 'weird' to the kids so I am trying to find ways of helping
>him. I found this site by accident and wondered if anyone could help.
>
>Many thanks Jade
>

_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

Hi there,

Working with anyone who has loads going on can be challenging to say the
least.  It is important to be able to feel the rhythm, you are right, as we
need to feel the stops.  It is also very important to gain their trust.
Many times the first couple of sessions are just playing so they can get the
idea that I don't want to "do" anything to them.  People with involved
conditions are very used to being poked and prodded.  Once their trust has
been gained, still points are an excellent way to start. I would suggest
starting well away from their core...maybe their feet. Stillpoints are a
great way to introduce your touch and to again let them know that the touch
we are using isn't going to hurt them.  I have found that after a couple
still points, the kids will come in and put my hands on their body in the
same place I have done the stillpoints.  At that point they will usually let
you in further and further.

One thing Dr. John talks about is the compression of the membrane system,
and therfore the bones.  This seems to be one of the main causes of the self
stimulating behaviour and also the teeth grinding.  In my experience when
there is teeth grinding, the temporals are very medially compressed and when
the compression is released, the grinding stops.  The self stim behavious is
probably releasing endorphines which are layering on top of the discomfort
that is already there.  Again, when the compressions are released the
behaviour stops.

Arc and treat what you find but remember that you might not always want to
go right to the primary lesion.  It might be way too much for them.
Instead, when you find an energy cyst, see where all the cyst pulls into and
begin treating there.  As those fascial pulls release so will the strain
into the primary lesion.  It will then be much easier to work on the
area...there will be much less of the client pulling your hands away.

You may not even be able to get your hands on for the first few sessions.
There might be stuff to clear in the energy fields first.  Both Kate (my
wife) and I have had this happen countless times.  Once the energy piece
eases, you can get your hands on.

As for the parents.  They are very used to having to hold their kids down so
that tests can be done.  If you can let them know that it's ok for their
child to move around they helps them. Let them know you don't need the child
to lie on the table..but.. be prepared to work under the table, your desk or
anywhere that it seems like you won't fit.  Most parents don't like holding
their kids down and will happily sit by and let you wrestle with them..lol.
This will also gain the trust of the child faster.

The rhythm..practice practice practice.  As we tell you in CSI, start with
adults and move younger.  Get used to feeling it on kids and then it will be
easier on those with involved conditions.  The compression in the head
usually makes the rhythm very hard to feel.  I would suggest starting
somewhere else..legs, feet.  The fascia will still be transmitting the
rhythm.

As for more information, I would suggest getting in touch with Rebecca Giles
at the Institute..she works in the clinic.  Rebecca is an OT and a pediatric
goddess..lol  She is really big into SI stuff, and runs the clinical apps
course for ped's.  She has an incredible wealth of knowledge.

I hope that helps.  Good luck, the reward is worth every moment of the
treatment.

Dave Tomlinson




>From: "natmedworks" <natmedworks@...>
>Reply-To: craniosacralnetwork@yahoogroups.com
>To: craniosacralnetwork@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Craniosacral Network] CST and Autism
>Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 18:39:50 -0000
>
>Hello-I have been practicing CST for 2 years. I have my first
>autistic child who I have seen 4 times now.
>
>I want to get more information on treating autism with CST. Can
>anyone out there share their experiences with the board.
>
>Also, is there any book/info that specifically deals with CST and
>Autism.
>
>Finally, how the hell do you feel the rhythem when the child is
>squirming around? How do I manage the parents who want to hold their
>child down?
>
>Any help is much appreciated.
>
>Be Well-Andrew
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

My son is 5 and is high functioning Autisitc with hyperactivity.
Would Craniosacral help him.  At the moment the Docs are talking
about meds to calm him down as he can get agressive, hyper and
basically a pain in the butt.  He doesnt make friends as he
appears 'weird' to the kids so I am trying to find ways of helping
him. I found this site by accident and wondered if anyone could help.

Many thanks Jade

Hi Andrew,

I worked with an Autistic child for about a year, and his mother was
very impressed with his improvement.  He was actually a highly
functioning child who I absolutely fell in love with.  His mother did
an incredible amount of work with him before he actually came to me.
As far as the cranial rhythm, forget about it for the first few
sessions.  You need to just get the child to the point where they can
get familiar with what you are doing.  I did lots of temporal, parietal
and sphenoid work.  He was in constant motion, but as time went on, he
quieted down toward the end of the sessions, and I was able to do still
points on him.  That took about 4 months however.
In the mean time, any work you can do will most likely be beneficial.
We could see Jamie's hyperactivity level smooth out right from the
first session.  He left much more calm and much more able to articulate
his feelings and thoughts.  He actually liked the sessions.
Go to Upledger's website for articles on the benefits of CST on Autism.
   I got tons of information from that site back when I worked on this
lovely child.   www.upledger.com

Good luck and don't give up.  Some days you will  be so frustrated and
think you are having absolutely no effect because the child will be so
active.  Ironically, those are the days when the parent will call you
and tell you how much it helped.  Hang in there.  CST is a wonderful
thing for these kids, even just a little bit at a time.  Don't try to
boil the ocean.  You will make a difference over time.

Patti S.   LMT
Upledger certified CST therapist


On Friday, September 3, 2004, at 04:55 PM,
craniosacralnetwork@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>
> There is 1 message in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
>       1. CST and Autism
>            From: "natmedworks" <natmedworks@...>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _
>
> Message: 1
>    Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 18:39:50 -0000
>    From: "natmedworks" <natmedworks@...>
> Subject: CST and Autism
>
> Hello-I have been practicing CST for 2 years. I have my first
> autistic child who I have seen 4 times now.
>
> I want to get more information on treating autism with CST. Can
> anyone out there share their experiences with the board.
>
> Also, is there any book/info that specifically deals with CST and
> Autism.
>
> Finally, how the hell do you feel the rhythem when the child is
> squirming around? How do I manage the parents who want to hold their
> child down?
>
> Any help is much appreciated.
>
> Be Well-Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
>
>

Hello-I have been practicing CST for 2 years. I have my first
autistic child who I have seen 4 times now.

I want to get more information on treating autism with CST. Can
anyone out there share their experiences with the board.

Also, is there any book/info that specifically deals with CST and
Autism.

Finally, how the hell do you feel the rhythem when the child is
squirming around? How do I manage the parents who want to hold their
child down?

Any help is much appreciated.

Be Well-Andrew

Peter

the only thing I've seen is a short mention of treating liver problems in an
editorial of "The
Fulcrum" (see www.craniosacral.co.uk) - but I do know someone who is writing a
book on alternative
treatments in general for Hepatitis - I'll ask him if he's ready for any
publicity yet

Andrew Cook


> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
>    Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 09:40:39 -0000
>    From: "petergnest" <peternest@...>
> Subject: CST and the LIver
>
> Is anyone aware of any recent publications, detailing CST and
> treatment of Liver Disease?

Is anyone aware of any recent publications, detailing CST and
treatment of Liver Disease?

--- In craniosacralnetwork@yahoogroups.com, "fergalflann" <fergalflann@y...>
wrote:
> If someone had an abnormally low palate what would it indicate to
> you ?
>
> ferg

Fergal,

if I become aware of something unusual when I'm working with someone, it is
information.
It makes me curious and I would wonder (with my intention) whether there was any
restriction or tension relating to that 'unusualness' in the surrounding tissue.
In other
words I would explore from my hands, not my theoretical knowledge.
I try not to get into thinking towards conclusions relating to my observations,
because it
gets in the way of what I'm being shown.

that is not to say that if I knew of some case history which related that I
would ignore that
information, just that it would be secondary to what my hands are feeling.

Stuart

To me, it would indicate an abnormally low palate, nothing more, nothing
less.

Jeff / NJ


>
> If someone had an abnormally low palate what would it indicate to
> you ?
>
> ferg

If someone had an abnormally low palate what would it indicate to
you ?

ferg

Thanks! - they do look really interesting

> Message: 1
>    Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:02:08 -0000
>    From: "inverin1969" <inverin1969@...>
> Subject: web link to articles on "energy medicine"
>
> Group,
>
> The link below should bring you to the Feb 2004 issue of the Journal
> of Alternative and Complimentary Medicine, which is a special issue on
> "Science and Healing: from Bioelectromagnetics to the Medicine of
> Light".  Lots of articles that should appeal to the members of this
> group.
>
> http://www.ingenta.com/isis/browsing/TOC/ingenta?i
> ssue=pubinfobike://mal/acm/2004/00000010/00000001
>
> JMN
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
>    Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:14:10 -0000
>    From: "inverin1969" <inverin1969@...>
> Subject: web link
>
> Group,
>
> For some reason, the web link won't work if you simply click on it,
> but will work if you copy the URL and paste it into your browser
> location window.
>
> JMN
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Group,

For some reason, the web link won't work if you simply click on it,
but will work if you copy the URL and paste it into your browser
location window.

JMN

Group,

The link below should bring you to the Feb 2004 issue of the Journal
of Alternative and Complimentary Medicine, which is a special issue on
"Science and Healing: from Bioelectromagnetics to the Medicine of
Light".  Lots of articles that should appeal to the members of this
group.

http://www.ingenta.com/isis/browsing/TOC/ingenta?i
ssue=pubinfobike://mal/acm/2004/00000010/00000001

JMN

In your opinions would a lesion of the sphenoid , even one that went
as far as to produce the proprioceptive disturbances I've previously
described in my other posts change the shape of the brain ( i.e.
cavities within the brain (ventricles) and around the brain
(cisterns), if so would it be noticeable with a scan ?

Furthermore how would such lesions effect the CSF fluid , and would
there be any way to confirm any CSF anomalies through something like
a spinal tap ?

Thanks

ferg

check out Hugh Milne's bood The Heart of Listening Volume 2 chapter
29 is all about the Vomer


--- In craniosacralnetwork@yahoogroups.com, "fergalflann"
<fergalflann@y...> wrote:
> Volmer Bone ?
>
> Can any one give any references to where I can find out more about
> this bone and how it works ?
>
> I've been looking around but can't seem to find anything on it all.
>
> thanks

Andrew

could you please tell me what you mean by "the practioner´s
consciousness acts as a proxy for the client´s consciousness" (don´t
know what you mean by "proxy")

thanks
Andrea


--- In craniosacralnetwork@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Cook"
<mail@h...> wrote:
> Grant
>
> I'm really not sure that one CST session - even from someone as
experienced as John Page - would
> create a permanent change to the conditions you describe.
>
> One thing you have to recognise is that the tissue systems in
question round the vomer that you
> describe - and elsewhere in the body - are affected by
consciousness.  One less common way of
> describing a CST session is that the practitioners consciousness
of the
> physiological/anatomical/energetic systems acts as a proxy for the
consciousness of the client *at
> the same time* as techniques being performed.  The style of CST
practiced is very much down to what
> proportion of tissue technique vs non-judgemental consciousness is
being applied.  It sounds like
> John chose something on the technique end of that spectum.
>
> If you strongly expect the sphenoid to remain out of position and
have such a good internal
> awareness as you describe, I'm not particularly surprised at the
nil result you describe.  CST works
> by helping self-healing forces within the body to do their stuff,
and *one* trigger for that is when
> consciousness touches tissue.  Another useful trigger is related
to internal coherence around the
> cranial rhythm.  However, consciousness, or any technique applied
is still only a trigger to
> something more important, and once those internal self-healing
forces start to mobilise, they are
> *far* more powerful and intelligent than any technique that any
person can consciously apply.  I
> humbly suggest that you're pre-assuming a mechanism and that pre-
assumption is getting in the way.
> There is a direct parallel in Buddhist philosophy to what I'm
saying here - expect nothing, be in
> the moment with what *is*.
>
> Regards
>
> Andrew Cook
>
> >
_____________________________________________________________________
___
> >
> > Message: 4
> >    Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 09:54:31 -0000
> >    From: "fergalflann" <fergalflann@y...>
> > Subject: Outcome of my Craniosacral therapy with John Page
> >
> >
> > After my recent appointment with John Page I was told that my
upper
> > body and lower body were producing extreme conflicting / "exotic"
> > cranial rythms, my volmer bone had shifted right over to the
right
> > side of my head and felt " knocked around /loose " and that this
> > might have occurred even before my cranial - laxity problems.
> >
> > After making these evaluations he then proceeded to put place his
> > finger on the back of my upper palate and move the volmer bone
back
> > over to the left which according to him freed up more space on
the
> > right side of my face and nasal passage and balanced out this
> > contradicting pattern of rythms.
> >
> > Given my lack of knowledge of the volmer bone I can't say for
sure
> > if this is what I felt moving when he used this aftermentioned
> > technique but I did feel something move and it did take pressure
off
> > my head although it did not really solve much else i..e smell,
low
> > moods,tight / choking  esophagus problems I had been experincing.
> >
> > I also noted that the shift I felt after he peformed this
technique
> > was the only thing I've ever experinced that comes close to the
same
> > sort of sensations I feel / felt after I used my own techniques ,
> > the only difference is I can use it anywhere and not just the
> > cranium.
> >
> > What was interesting too , infact the most important thing as
far as
> > I'm concerned ,is that apparently this volmer bone acts as some
> > kinda of lever for the sphenoid so if it is displaced, as it
> > was ,then obviously it would also mean that sphenoid would of
had to
> > be affected as well?
> >
> > Unfortunately the treatment was not a success for while he was
able
> > to shift something over to the left side it didn't stay there and
> > infact has already moved back into the former  position it was
> > before he moved it.
> >
> > I was actually aware of this movement and for time I did use my
> > techniques to hold it there but it was only causing more strain
so I
> > just let it slip back rather than fight it.
> >
> > Now , like I said I don't know much about this volmer bone but if
> > it's not staying place then surely it can mean , esp if as Mr
Page
> > said the rythms were more similiar after he performed the shift ,
> > that this volmer bone won't stay in correct position because they
> > ligaments have been overstretched ?
> >
> > And if it is not the ligaments , at least orginally, then some
force
> > or pressure has caused my body to compensate for this unkown
> > weakness elsewhere, perhaps the sphenoid given it's connection ,
by
> > shifting this volmer bone right over to the opposite side of my
> > cranium, and keeping it there.
> >
> > At the outcome of this then I have come to the following
> > conclusions..
> >
> > 1. The sacral therapy succeeded /failed for the very reasons I
> > feared it would , it was able to move my cranials bones , well
one
> > of them at least , but because the inner cranial  ligaments had
> > already been so weakened it was unable to hold it there.
> >
> > 2. If this volmer bone as described is somewhere just above the
> > palate then it also might be feasible think intraoral injections
the
> > Prolotherapists purposed into this area might also be able to
> > affect/strengthen the volmer bone which in turn would help
> > stabilise the sphenoid.
> >
> > Well these are my thoughts I'd be interested to hear what others
> > here think.
> >
> > thanks again
> >
> > grant
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
_____________________________________________________________________
___
> >
_____________________________________________________________________
___
> >
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> >
> >
> >

Thanks for all your suggestions.

I suppose my  main problem right now is that I'm having a conflict
of views with Mr Page.

He tells me there is no sign of inner cranial bone laxity and yet
if that is the case how do you explain fact I was able to reverse
and  cure my symptoms indefinitely ( I can still walk remember ) by
getting injections  specifically into areas that such as the
pterygoids that influence the inner cranial bones ?

Also If I was relatively fine for a period of time and there was no
laxity present in my body to have influenced the cranium ( I would
have felt it if there had ) then what could of possibly happened or
occurred to start causing the pulling  sensations in my cranium that
eventually started to cause things to relapse again after I had the
injections?

And furthermore why did it start there ,and not for example in my
jaw , neck etc ?

thanks once again for all your thoughts

Grant

I would recommend Hugh Milne's book...he has a chapter on each of the
cranial bones.

Debra McLaughlin
Craniosacral Therapist, Birth Doula
Northern Lights Wellness
Duluth, MN
(218)590-1891
erickson@...

Grant

I'm really not sure that one CST session - even from someone as experienced as
John Page - would
create a permanent change to the conditions you describe.

One thing you have to recognise is that the tissue systems in question round the
vomer that you
describe - and elsewhere in the body - are affected by consciousness.  One less
common way of
describing a CST session is that the practitioners consciousness of the
physiological/anatomical/energetic systems acts as a proxy for the consciousness
of the client *at
the same time* as techniques being performed.  The style of CST practiced is
very much down to what
proportion of tissue technique vs non-judgemental consciousness is being
applied.  It sounds like
John chose something on the technique end of that spectum.

If you strongly expect the sphenoid to remain out of position and have such a
good internal
awareness as you describe, I'm not particularly surprised at the nil result you
describe.  CST works
by helping self-healing forces within the body to do their stuff, and *one*
trigger for that is when
consciousness touches tissue.  Another useful trigger is related to internal
coherence around the
cranial rhythm.  However, consciousness, or any technique applied is still only
a trigger to
something more important, and once those internal self-healing forces start to
mobilise, they are
*far* more powerful and intelligent than any technique that any person can
consciously apply.  I
humbly suggest that you're pre-assuming a mechanism and that pre-assumption is
getting in the way.
There is a direct parallel in Buddhist philosophy to what I'm saying here -
expect nothing, be in
the moment with what *is*.

Regards

Andrew Cook

> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 4
>    Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 09:54:31 -0000
>    From: "fergalflann" <fergalflann@...>
> Subject: Outcome of my Craniosacral therapy with John Page
>
>
> After my recent appointment with John Page I was told that my upper
> body and lower body were producing extreme conflicting / "exotic"
> cranial rythms, my volmer bone had shifted right over to the right
> side of my head and felt " knocked around /loose " and that this
> might have occurred even before my cranial - laxity problems.
>
> After making these evaluations he then proceeded to put place his
> finger on the back of my upper palate and move the volmer bone back
> over to the left which according to him freed up more space on the
> right side of my face and nasal passage and balanced out this
> contradicting pattern of rythms.
>
> Given my lack of knowledge of the volmer bone I can't say for sure
> if this is what I felt moving when he used this aftermentioned
> technique but I did feel something move and it did take pressure off
> my head although it did not really solve much else i..e smell, low
> moods,tight / choking  esophagus problems I had been experincing.
>
> I also noted that the shift I felt after he peformed this technique
> was the only thing I've ever experinced that comes close to the same
> sort of sensations I feel / felt after I used my own techniques ,
> the only difference is I can use it anywhere and not just the
> cranium.
>
> What was interesting too , infact the most important thing as far as
> I'm concerned ,is that apparently this volmer bone acts as some
> kinda of lever for the sphenoid so if it is displaced, as it
> was ,then obviously it would also mean that sphenoid would of had to
> be affected as well?
>
> Unfortunately the treatment was not a success for while he was able
> to shift something over to the left side it didn't stay there and
> infact has already moved back into the former  position it was
> before he moved it.
>
> I was actually aware of this movement and for time I did use my
> techniques to hold it there but it was only causing more strain so I
> just let it slip back rather than fight it.
>
> Now , like I said I don't know much about this volmer bone but if
> it's not staying place then surely it can mean , esp if as Mr Page
> said the rythms were more similiar after he performed the shift ,
> that this volmer bone won't stay in correct position because they
> ligaments have been overstretched ?
>
> And if it is not the ligaments , at least orginally, then some force
> or pressure has caused my body to compensate for this unkown
> weakness elsewhere, perhaps the sphenoid given it's connection , by
> shifting this volmer bone right over to the opposite side of my
> cranium, and keeping it there.
>
> At the outcome of this then I have come to the following
> conclusions..
>
> 1. The sacral therapy succeeded /failed for the very reasons I
> feared it would , it was able to move my cranials bones , well one
> of them at least , but because the inner cranial  ligaments had
> already been so weakened it was unable to hold it there.
>
> 2. If this volmer bone as described is somewhere just above the
> palate then it also might be feasible think intraoral injections the
> Prolotherapists purposed into this area might also be able to
> affect/strengthen the volmer bone which in turn would help
> stabilise the sphenoid.
>
> Well these are my thoughts I'd be interested to hear what others
> here think.
>
> thanks again
>
> grant
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Hi Grant -- I still think you might give some visceral
manipulation a try, and perhaps some Rolfing as well.
The pterygoid muscles are connected to the sphenoid,
which means that if one of your pterygoids is
functioning at a shorter length than the other, your
sphenoid will be pulled out of balance as soon as you
chew, talk, swallow, etc.

The other possibility I see is that you may have some
restrictions around your internal organs that are
affecting the integrity of the dural tube.  Then
there's also the possibility that you may have a
"dominant eye," and I don't know of any treatment for
that -- does anybody else?  I've heard Neural
Organization Technique (NOT) mentioned for this, but I
haven't researched it.

CH


--- fergalflann <fergalflann@...> wrote:
>
> After my recent appointment with John Page I was
> told that my upper
> body and lower body were producing extreme
> conflicting / "exotic"
> cranial rythms, my volmer bone had shifted right
> over to the right
> side of my head and felt " knocked around /loose "
> and that this
> might have occurred even before my cranial - laxity
> problems.
>
> After making these evaluations he then proceeded to
> put place his
> finger on the back of my upper palate and move the
> volmer bone back
> over to the left which according to him freed up
> more space on the
> right side of my face and nasal passage and balanced
> out this
> contradicting pattern of rythms.
>
> Given my lack of knowledge of the volmer bone I
> can't say for sure
> if this is what I felt moving when he used this
> aftermentioned
> technique but I did feel something move and it did
> take pressure off
> my head although it did not really solve much else
> i..e smell, low
> moods,tight / choking  esophagus problems I had been
> experincing.
>
> I also noted that the shift I felt after he peformed
> this technique
> was the only thing I've ever experinced that comes
> close to the same
> sort of sensations I feel / felt after I used my own
> techniques ,
> the only difference is I can use it anywhere and not
> just the
> cranium.
>
> What was interesting too , infact the most important
> thing as far as
> I'm concerned ,is that apparently this volmer bone
> acts as some
> kinda of lever for the sphenoid so if it is
> displaced, as it
> was ,then obviously it would also mean that sphenoid
> would of had to
> be affected as well?
>
> Unfortunately the treatment was not a success for
> while he was able
> to shift something over to the left side it didn't
> stay there and
> infact has already moved back into the former
> position it was
> before he moved it.
>
> I was actually aware of this movement and for time I
> did use my
> techniques to hold it there but it was only causing
> more strain so I
> just let it slip back rather than fight it.
>
> Now , like I said I don't know much about this
> volmer bone but if
> it's not staying place then surely it can mean , esp
> if as Mr Page
> said the rythms were more similiar after he
> performed the shift ,
> that this volmer bone won't stay in correct position
> because they
> ligaments have been overstretched ?
>
> And if it is not the ligaments , at least orginally,
> then some force
> or pressure has caused my body to compensate for
> this unkown
> weakness elsewhere, perhaps the sphenoid given it's
> connection , by
> shifting this volmer bone right over to the opposite
> side of my
> cranium, and keeping it there.
>
> At the outcome of this then I have come to the
> following
> conclusions..
>
> 1. The sacral therapy succeeded /failed for the very
> reasons I
> feared it would , it was able to move my cranials
> bones , well one
> of them at least , but because the inner cranial
> ligaments had
> already been so weakened it was unable to hold it
> there.
>
> 2. If this volmer bone as described is somewhere
> just above the
> palate then it also might be feasible think
> intraoral injections the
> Prolotherapists purposed into this area might also
> be able to
> affect/strengthen the volmer bone which in turn
> would help
> stabilise the sphenoid.
>
> Well these are my thoughts I'd be interested to hear
> what others
> here think.
>
> thanks again
>
> grant


__________________________________
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After my recent appointment with John Page I was told that my upper
body and lower body were producing extreme conflicting / "exotic"
cranial rythms, my volmer bone had shifted right over to the right
side of my head and felt " knocked around /loose " and that this
might have occurred even before my cranial - laxity problems.

After making these evaluations he then proceeded to put place his
finger on the back of my upper palate and move the volmer bone back
over to the left which according to him freed up more space on the
right side of my face and nasal passage and balanced out this
contradicting pattern of rythms.

Given my lack of knowledge of the volmer bone I can't say for sure
if this is what I felt moving when he used this aftermentioned
technique but I did feel something move and it did take pressure off
my head although it did not really solve much else i..e smell, low
moods,tight / choking  esophagus problems I had been experincing.

I also noted that the shift I felt after he peformed this technique
was the only thing I've ever experinced that comes close to the same
sort of sensations I feel / felt after I used my own techniques ,
the only difference is I can use it anywhere and not just the
cranium.

What was interesting too , infact the most important thing as far as
I'm concerned ,is that apparently this volmer bone acts as some
kinda of lever for the sphenoid so if it is displaced, as it
was ,then obviously it would also mean that sphenoid would of had to
be affected as well?

Unfortunately the treatment was not a success for while he was able
to shift something over to the left side it didn't stay there and
infact has already moved back into the former  position it was
before he moved it.

I was actually aware of this movement and for time I did use my
techniques to hold it there but it was only causing more strain so I
just let it slip back rather than fight it.

Now , like I said I don't know much about this volmer bone but if
it's not staying place then surely it can mean , esp if as Mr Page
said the rythms were more similiar after he performed the shift ,
that this volmer bone won't stay in correct position because they
ligaments have been overstretched ?

And if it is not the ligaments , at least orginally, then some force
or pressure has caused my body to compensate for this unkown
weakness elsewhere, perhaps the sphenoid given it's connection , by
shifting this volmer bone right over to the opposite side of my
cranium, and keeping it there.

At the outcome of this then I have come to the following
conclusions..

1. The sacral therapy succeeded /failed for the very reasons I
feared it would , it was able to move my cranials bones , well one
of them at least , but because the inner cranial  ligaments had
already been so weakened it was unable to hold it there.

2. If this volmer bone as described is somewhere just above the
palate then it also might be feasible think intraoral injections the
Prolotherapists purposed into this area might also be able to
affect/strengthen the volmer bone which in turn would help
stabilise the sphenoid.

Well these are my thoughts I'd be interested to hear what others
here think.

thanks again

grant

Hi folks

couldn't believe that one Anne! so I had to go look.

here is what I found.


Upledger (with J Vredevoogd)
pg 187 says

the vomer provides functional continuity between the superior surface of the
hard palate
at the midline, and the sphenoid. This bone is extremely flexible and often
falls victim to
intraosseous strain, or strain within itself, like a torsioned piece of steel.
When
sphenomaxillary lesion patterns are identified and corrected, the vomer
component must
always be dealt with in order to obtain a satisfactory and lasting result.

pages 195,6,7 deal with the anatomy, and evaluation/treatment protocols.

Upledger Craniosacral II does not add anything significant to that discussion.

Upledger SomatoEmotional Release and beyond
on pages 91-99 of the chapter Mouth, Face, and Throat Work, there is a
description and
several diagrams of treatment techniques for the vomer lesion patterns. Not much
discussion, though.

the most interesting reference I have is Hugh Milnes book the Heart of
Listening, pages
320-325 (amongst others). I have the single volume version,it has since benn
split into
two books and I would guess this is in book two. Anyways it is the Vomer
chapter!

Stuart

The Vomer.

You will find little or nothing about the vomer in Upledger.  This is from
Franklyn Sills. Copied from his initial . unedited text.  Hence, some repetion.
It is located behind the nose and is a verticle bone . Very small and thin. It
is part of the gear mechanism.

"The vomer is moved by the body of the sphenoid.  Its articulation with the
sphenoid is a gliding one.
The superior aspect of the vomer is flared open and is called its rostrum and
articulates with the inferior aspect of the body of the sphenoid.  As the
sphenoid expresses flexion, the vomer rotates in the opposite direction and
there is a gliding action between them.  Thus the vomer acts as a 'speed
reducer' and lessens the intensity of the Primary Rhythmic Impulse, as it is
transferred to the hard palate.  Due to this gliding action, the movements and
pressures of chewing and talking are also lowered in their intensity as they are
transferred to the sphenoid and hence do not directly impinge on the dynamics of
the cranial base,  As the vomer expresses flexion, its inferior/posterior aspect
rotates caudad and descends inferiorly at the rear of the hard palate.  This, as
described above, helps lower and widen the arch of the hard palate.

The action on the sphenoid is thus transferred to the hard palate via the
actions of the palatines and vomer.  The relationship between them is that of
gliding articulations which reduce the intensity of chewing and talking as they
are transferred to the sphenoid and also dampens down the amplitude of the PRI
as it is transferred to the hard palate.  As the sphenoid rotates in its flexion
phase, the vomer descends on the hard palate, the maxillae and the palatines
rotate into external rotoation,  The pterygoid processes of the sphenoid further
encourages this, via it's articulation with the palatine bones, as it rotates
inferior and widens apart."

Compression is a common dysfunction of the sphenoid/ vomer/ palatine complex.
Being an important part of the gear mechanism, along with the ethmoid, it
depresses the motility of the whole cranial system.

Hope this answers your question.
Ann
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: fergalflann
   To: craniosacralnetwork@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 6:25 PM
   Subject: [Craniosacral Network] Volmer Bone ?


   Volmer Bone ?

   Can any one give any references to where I can find out more about
   this bone and how it works ?

   I've been looking around but can't seem to find anything on it all.

   thanks




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Volmer Bone ?

Can any one give any references to where I can find out more about
this bone and how it works ?

I've been looking around but can't seem to find anything on it all.

thanks

Could anyone tell me about their experiences of the effects of CST
on the voice - either with professional voice users (actors,
singers, presenters, teachers etc) or with general patients who
notice changes following treatment...?

I'm a voice coach and CST student (at CCST in London) and I'm
currently writing a final course project on the influences of CST on
the voice.

I'd be very grateful if you could share some examples of treatment
and results with me. I'm especially interested to know about the
specific techniques you used: what did you do? why? and where? What
difference did it make?

Thanks in advance!

Helen Sewell