Hello-I have been practicing CST for 2 years. I have my first
autistic child who I have seen 4 times now.

I want to get more information on treating autism with CST. Can
anyone out there share their experiences with the board.

Also, is there any book/info that specifically deals with CST and
Autism.

Finally, how the hell do you feel the rhythem when the child is
squirming around? How do I manage the parents who want to hold their
child down?

Any help is much appreciated.

Be Well-Andrew

Peter

the only thing I've seen is a short mention of treating liver problems in an
editorial of "The
Fulcrum" (see www.craniosacral.co.uk) - but I do know someone who is writing a
book on alternative
treatments in general for Hepatitis - I'll ask him if he's ready for any
publicity yet

Andrew Cook


> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
>    Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 09:40:39 -0000
>    From: "petergnest" <peternest@...>
> Subject: CST and the LIver
>
> Is anyone aware of any recent publications, detailing CST and
> treatment of Liver Disease?

Is anyone aware of any recent publications, detailing CST and
treatment of Liver Disease?

--- In craniosacralnetwork@yahoogroups.com, "fergalflann" <fergalflann@y...>
wrote:
> If someone had an abnormally low palate what would it indicate to
> you ?
>
> ferg

Fergal,

if I become aware of something unusual when I'm working with someone, it is
information.
It makes me curious and I would wonder (with my intention) whether there was any
restriction or tension relating to that 'unusualness' in the surrounding tissue.
In other
words I would explore from my hands, not my theoretical knowledge.
I try not to get into thinking towards conclusions relating to my observations,
because it
gets in the way of what I'm being shown.

that is not to say that if I knew of some case history which related that I
would ignore that
information, just that it would be secondary to what my hands are feeling.

Stuart

To me, it would indicate an abnormally low palate, nothing more, nothing
less.

Jeff / NJ


>
> If someone had an abnormally low palate what would it indicate to
> you ?
>
> ferg

If someone had an abnormally low palate what would it indicate to
you ?

ferg

Thanks! - they do look really interesting

> Message: 1
>    Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:02:08 -0000
>    From: "inverin1969" <inverin1969@...>
> Subject: web link to articles on "energy medicine"
>
> Group,
>
> The link below should bring you to the Feb 2004 issue of the Journal
> of Alternative and Complimentary Medicine, which is a special issue on
> "Science and Healing: from Bioelectromagnetics to the Medicine of
> Light".  Lots of articles that should appeal to the members of this
> group.
>
> http://www.ingenta.com/isis/browsing/TOC/ingenta?i
> ssue=pubinfobike://mal/acm/2004/00000010/00000001
>
> JMN
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
>    Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:14:10 -0000
>    From: "inverin1969" <inverin1969@...>
> Subject: web link
>
> Group,
>
> For some reason, the web link won't work if you simply click on it,
> but will work if you copy the URL and paste it into your browser
> location window.
>
> JMN
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Group,

For some reason, the web link won't work if you simply click on it,
but will work if you copy the URL and paste it into your browser
location window.

JMN

Group,

The link below should bring you to the Feb 2004 issue of the Journal
of Alternative and Complimentary Medicine, which is a special issue on
"Science and Healing: from Bioelectromagnetics to the Medicine of
Light".  Lots of articles that should appeal to the members of this
group.

http://www.ingenta.com/isis/browsing/TOC/ingenta?i
ssue=pubinfobike://mal/acm/2004/00000010/00000001

JMN

In your opinions would a lesion of the sphenoid , even one that went
as far as to produce the proprioceptive disturbances I've previously
described in my other posts change the shape of the brain ( i.e.
cavities within the brain (ventricles) and around the brain
(cisterns), if so would it be noticeable with a scan ?

Furthermore how would such lesions effect the CSF fluid , and would
there be any way to confirm any CSF anomalies through something like
a spinal tap ?

Thanks

ferg

check out Hugh Milne's bood The Heart of Listening Volume 2 chapter
29 is all about the Vomer


--- In craniosacralnetwork@yahoogroups.com, "fergalflann"
<fergalflann@y...> wrote:
> Volmer Bone ?
>
> Can any one give any references to where I can find out more about
> this bone and how it works ?
>
> I've been looking around but can't seem to find anything on it all.
>
> thanks

Andrew

could you please tell me what you mean by "the practioner´s
consciousness acts as a proxy for the client´s consciousness" (don´t
know what you mean by "proxy")

thanks
Andrea


--- In craniosacralnetwork@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Cook"
<mail@h...> wrote:
> Grant
>
> I'm really not sure that one CST session - even from someone as
experienced as John Page - would
> create a permanent change to the conditions you describe.
>
> One thing you have to recognise is that the tissue systems in
question round the vomer that you
> describe - and elsewhere in the body - are affected by
consciousness.  One less common way of
> describing a CST session is that the practitioners consciousness
of the
> physiological/anatomical/energetic systems acts as a proxy for the
consciousness of the client *at
> the same time* as techniques being performed.  The style of CST
practiced is very much down to what
> proportion of tissue technique vs non-judgemental consciousness is
being applied.  It sounds like
> John chose something on the technique end of that spectum.
>
> If you strongly expect the sphenoid to remain out of position and
have such a good internal
> awareness as you describe, I'm not particularly surprised at the
nil result you describe.  CST works
> by helping self-healing forces within the body to do their stuff,
and *one* trigger for that is when
> consciousness touches tissue.  Another useful trigger is related
to internal coherence around the
> cranial rhythm.  However, consciousness, or any technique applied
is still only a trigger to
> something more important, and once those internal self-healing
forces start to mobilise, they are
> *far* more powerful and intelligent than any technique that any
person can consciously apply.  I
> humbly suggest that you're pre-assuming a mechanism and that pre-
assumption is getting in the way.
> There is a direct parallel in Buddhist philosophy to what I'm
saying here - expect nothing, be in
> the moment with what *is*.
>
> Regards
>
> Andrew Cook
>
> >
_____________________________________________________________________
___
> >
> > Message: 4
> >    Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 09:54:31 -0000
> >    From: "fergalflann" <fergalflann@y...>
> > Subject: Outcome of my Craniosacral therapy with John Page
> >
> >
> > After my recent appointment with John Page I was told that my
upper
> > body and lower body were producing extreme conflicting / "exotic"
> > cranial rythms, my volmer bone had shifted right over to the
right
> > side of my head and felt " knocked around /loose " and that this
> > might have occurred even before my cranial - laxity problems.
> >
> > After making these evaluations he then proceeded to put place his
> > finger on the back of my upper palate and move the volmer bone
back
> > over to the left which according to him freed up more space on
the
> > right side of my face and nasal passage and balanced out this
> > contradicting pattern of rythms.
> >
> > Given my lack of knowledge of the volmer bone I can't say for
sure
> > if this is what I felt moving when he used this aftermentioned
> > technique but I did feel something move and it did take pressure
off
> > my head although it did not really solve much else i..e smell,
low
> > moods,tight / choking  esophagus problems I had been experincing.
> >
> > I also noted that the shift I felt after he peformed this
technique
> > was the only thing I've ever experinced that comes close to the
same
> > sort of sensations I feel / felt after I used my own techniques ,
> > the only difference is I can use it anywhere and not just the
> > cranium.
> >
> > What was interesting too , infact the most important thing as
far as
> > I'm concerned ,is that apparently this volmer bone acts as some
> > kinda of lever for the sphenoid so if it is displaced, as it
> > was ,then obviously it would also mean that sphenoid would of
had to
> > be affected as well?
> >
> > Unfortunately the treatment was not a success for while he was
able
> > to shift something over to the left side it didn't stay there and
> > infact has already moved back into the former  position it was
> > before he moved it.
> >
> > I was actually aware of this movement and for time I did use my
> > techniques to hold it there but it was only causing more strain
so I
> > just let it slip back rather than fight it.
> >
> > Now , like I said I don't know much about this volmer bone but if
> > it's not staying place then surely it can mean , esp if as Mr
Page
> > said the rythms were more similiar after he performed the shift ,
> > that this volmer bone won't stay in correct position because they
> > ligaments have been overstretched ?
> >
> > And if it is not the ligaments , at least orginally, then some
force
> > or pressure has caused my body to compensate for this unkown
> > weakness elsewhere, perhaps the sphenoid given it's connection ,
by
> > shifting this volmer bone right over to the opposite side of my
> > cranium, and keeping it there.
> >
> > At the outcome of this then I have come to the following
> > conclusions..
> >
> > 1. The sacral therapy succeeded /failed for the very reasons I
> > feared it would , it was able to move my cranials bones , well
one
> > of them at least , but because the inner cranial  ligaments had
> > already been so weakened it was unable to hold it there.
> >
> > 2. If this volmer bone as described is somewhere just above the
> > palate then it also might be feasible think intraoral injections
the
> > Prolotherapists purposed into this area might also be able to
> > affect/strengthen the volmer bone which in turn would help
> > stabilise the sphenoid.
> >
> > Well these are my thoughts I'd be interested to hear what others
> > here think.
> >
> > thanks again
> >
> > grant
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
_____________________________________________________________________
___
> >
_____________________________________________________________________
___
> >
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> >
> >
> >

Thanks for all your suggestions.

I suppose my  main problem right now is that I'm having a conflict
of views with Mr Page.

He tells me there is no sign of inner cranial bone laxity and yet
if that is the case how do you explain fact I was able to reverse
and  cure my symptoms indefinitely ( I can still walk remember ) by
getting injections  specifically into areas that such as the
pterygoids that influence the inner cranial bones ?

Also If I was relatively fine for a period of time and there was no
laxity present in my body to have influenced the cranium ( I would
have felt it if there had ) then what could of possibly happened or
occurred to start causing the pulling  sensations in my cranium that
eventually started to cause things to relapse again after I had the
injections?

And furthermore why did it start there ,and not for example in my
jaw , neck etc ?

thanks once again for all your thoughts

Grant

I would recommend Hugh Milne's book...he has a chapter on each of the
cranial bones.

Debra McLaughlin
Craniosacral Therapist, Birth Doula
Northern Lights Wellness
Duluth, MN
(218)590-1891
erickson@...

Grant

I'm really not sure that one CST session - even from someone as experienced as
John Page - would
create a permanent change to the conditions you describe.

One thing you have to recognise is that the tissue systems in question round the
vomer that you
describe - and elsewhere in the body - are affected by consciousness.  One less
common way of
describing a CST session is that the practitioners consciousness of the
physiological/anatomical/energetic systems acts as a proxy for the consciousness
of the client *at
the same time* as techniques being performed.  The style of CST practiced is
very much down to what
proportion of tissue technique vs non-judgemental consciousness is being
applied.  It sounds like
John chose something on the technique end of that spectum.

If you strongly expect the sphenoid to remain out of position and have such a
good internal
awareness as you describe, I'm not particularly surprised at the nil result you
describe.  CST works
by helping self-healing forces within the body to do their stuff, and *one*
trigger for that is when
consciousness touches tissue.  Another useful trigger is related to internal
coherence around the
cranial rhythm.  However, consciousness, or any technique applied is still only
a trigger to
something more important, and once those internal self-healing forces start to
mobilise, they are
*far* more powerful and intelligent than any technique that any person can
consciously apply.  I
humbly suggest that you're pre-assuming a mechanism and that pre-assumption is
getting in the way.
There is a direct parallel in Buddhist philosophy to what I'm saying here -
expect nothing, be in
the moment with what *is*.

Regards

Andrew Cook

> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 4
>    Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 09:54:31 -0000
>    From: "fergalflann" <fergalflann@...>
> Subject: Outcome of my Craniosacral therapy with John Page
>
>
> After my recent appointment with John Page I was told that my upper
> body and lower body were producing extreme conflicting / "exotic"
> cranial rythms, my volmer bone had shifted right over to the right
> side of my head and felt " knocked around /loose " and that this
> might have occurred even before my cranial - laxity problems.
>
> After making these evaluations he then proceeded to put place his
> finger on the back of my upper palate and move the volmer bone back
> over to the left which according to him freed up more space on the
> right side of my face and nasal passage and balanced out this
> contradicting pattern of rythms.
>
> Given my lack of knowledge of the volmer bone I can't say for sure
> if this is what I felt moving when he used this aftermentioned
> technique but I did feel something move and it did take pressure off
> my head although it did not really solve much else i..e smell, low
> moods,tight / choking  esophagus problems I had been experincing.
>
> I also noted that the shift I felt after he peformed this technique
> was the only thing I've ever experinced that comes close to the same
> sort of sensations I feel / felt after I used my own techniques ,
> the only difference is I can use it anywhere and not just the
> cranium.
>
> What was interesting too , infact the most important thing as far as
> I'm concerned ,is that apparently this volmer bone acts as some
> kinda of lever for the sphenoid so if it is displaced, as it
> was ,then obviously it would also mean that sphenoid would of had to
> be affected as well?
>
> Unfortunately the treatment was not a success for while he was able
> to shift something over to the left side it didn't stay there and
> infact has already moved back into the former  position it was
> before he moved it.
>
> I was actually aware of this movement and for time I did use my
> techniques to hold it there but it was only causing more strain so I
> just let it slip back rather than fight it.
>
> Now , like I said I don't know much about this volmer bone but if
> it's not staying place then surely it can mean , esp if as Mr Page
> said the rythms were more similiar after he performed the shift ,
> that this volmer bone won't stay in correct position because they
> ligaments have been overstretched ?
>
> And if it is not the ligaments , at least orginally, then some force
> or pressure has caused my body to compensate for this unkown
> weakness elsewhere, perhaps the sphenoid given it's connection , by
> shifting this volmer bone right over to the opposite side of my
> cranium, and keeping it there.
>
> At the outcome of this then I have come to the following
> conclusions..
>
> 1. The sacral therapy succeeded /failed for the very reasons I
> feared it would , it was able to move my cranials bones , well one
> of them at least , but because the inner cranial  ligaments had
> already been so weakened it was unable to hold it there.
>
> 2. If this volmer bone as described is somewhere just above the
> palate then it also might be feasible think intraoral injections the
> Prolotherapists purposed into this area might also be able to
> affect/strengthen the volmer bone which in turn would help
> stabilise the sphenoid.
>
> Well these are my thoughts I'd be interested to hear what others
> here think.
>
> thanks again
>
> grant
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Hi Grant -- I still think you might give some visceral
manipulation a try, and perhaps some Rolfing as well.
The pterygoid muscles are connected to the sphenoid,
which means that if one of your pterygoids is
functioning at a shorter length than the other, your
sphenoid will be pulled out of balance as soon as you
chew, talk, swallow, etc.

The other possibility I see is that you may have some
restrictions around your internal organs that are
affecting the integrity of the dural tube.  Then
there's also the possibility that you may have a
"dominant eye," and I don't know of any treatment for
that -- does anybody else?  I've heard Neural
Organization Technique (NOT) mentioned for this, but I
haven't researched it.

CH


--- fergalflann <fergalflann@...> wrote:
>
> After my recent appointment with John Page I was
> told that my upper
> body and lower body were producing extreme
> conflicting / "exotic"
> cranial rythms, my volmer bone had shifted right
> over to the right
> side of my head and felt " knocked around /loose "
> and that this
> might have occurred even before my cranial - laxity
> problems.
>
> After making these evaluations he then proceeded to
> put place his
> finger on the back of my upper palate and move the
> volmer bone back
> over to the left which according to him freed up
> more space on the
> right side of my face and nasal passage and balanced
> out this
> contradicting pattern of rythms.
>
> Given my lack of knowledge of the volmer bone I
> can't say for sure
> if this is what I felt moving when he used this
> aftermentioned
> technique but I did feel something move and it did
> take pressure off
> my head although it did not really solve much else
> i..e smell, low
> moods,tight / choking  esophagus problems I had been
> experincing.
>
> I also noted that the shift I felt after he peformed
> this technique
> was the only thing I've ever experinced that comes
> close to the same
> sort of sensations I feel / felt after I used my own
> techniques ,
> the only difference is I can use it anywhere and not
> just the
> cranium.
>
> What was interesting too , infact the most important
> thing as far as
> I'm concerned ,is that apparently this volmer bone
> acts as some
> kinda of lever for the sphenoid so if it is
> displaced, as it
> was ,then obviously it would also mean that sphenoid
> would of had to
> be affected as well?
>
> Unfortunately the treatment was not a success for
> while he was able
> to shift something over to the left side it didn't
> stay there and
> infact has already moved back into the former
> position it was
> before he moved it.
>
> I was actually aware of this movement and for time I
> did use my
> techniques to hold it there but it was only causing
> more strain so I
> just let it slip back rather than fight it.
>
> Now , like I said I don't know much about this
> volmer bone but if
> it's not staying place then surely it can mean , esp
> if as Mr Page
> said the rythms were more similiar after he
> performed the shift ,
> that this volmer bone won't stay in correct position
> because they
> ligaments have been overstretched ?
>
> And if it is not the ligaments , at least orginally,
> then some force
> or pressure has caused my body to compensate for
> this unkown
> weakness elsewhere, perhaps the sphenoid given it's
> connection , by
> shifting this volmer bone right over to the opposite
> side of my
> cranium, and keeping it there.
>
> At the outcome of this then I have come to the
> following
> conclusions..
>
> 1. The sacral therapy succeeded /failed for the very
> reasons I
> feared it would , it was able to move my cranials
> bones , well one
> of them at least , but because the inner cranial
> ligaments had
> already been so weakened it was unable to hold it
> there.
>
> 2. If this volmer bone as described is somewhere
> just above the
> palate then it also might be feasible think
> intraoral injections the
> Prolotherapists purposed into this area might also
> be able to
> affect/strengthen the volmer bone which in turn
> would help
> stabilise the sphenoid.
>
> Well these are my thoughts I'd be interested to hear
> what others
> here think.
>
> thanks again
>
> grant


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway
http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/

After my recent appointment with John Page I was told that my upper
body and lower body were producing extreme conflicting / "exotic"
cranial rythms, my volmer bone had shifted right over to the right
side of my head and felt " knocked around /loose " and that this
might have occurred even before my cranial - laxity problems.

After making these evaluations he then proceeded to put place his
finger on the back of my upper palate and move the volmer bone back
over to the left which according to him freed up more space on the
right side of my face and nasal passage and balanced out this
contradicting pattern of rythms.

Given my lack of knowledge of the volmer bone I can't say for sure
if this is what I felt moving when he used this aftermentioned
technique but I did feel something move and it did take pressure off
my head although it did not really solve much else i..e smell, low
moods,tight / choking  esophagus problems I had been experincing.

I also noted that the shift I felt after he peformed this technique
was the only thing I've ever experinced that comes close to the same
sort of sensations I feel / felt after I used my own techniques ,
the only difference is I can use it anywhere and not just the
cranium.

What was interesting too , infact the most important thing as far as
I'm concerned ,is that apparently this volmer bone acts as some
kinda of lever for the sphenoid so if it is displaced, as it
was ,then obviously it would also mean that sphenoid would of had to
be affected as well?

Unfortunately the treatment was not a success for while he was able
to shift something over to the left side it didn't stay there and
infact has already moved back into the former  position it was
before he moved it.

I was actually aware of this movement and for time I did use my
techniques to hold it there but it was only causing more strain so I
just let it slip back rather than fight it.

Now , like I said I don't know much about this volmer bone but if
it's not staying place then surely it can mean , esp if as Mr Page
said the rythms were more similiar after he performed the shift ,
that this volmer bone won't stay in correct position because they
ligaments have been overstretched ?

And if it is not the ligaments , at least orginally, then some force
or pressure has caused my body to compensate for this unkown
weakness elsewhere, perhaps the sphenoid given it's connection , by
shifting this volmer bone right over to the opposite side of my
cranium, and keeping it there.

At the outcome of this then I have come to the following
conclusions..

1. The sacral therapy succeeded /failed for the very reasons I
feared it would , it was able to move my cranials bones , well one
of them at least , but because the inner cranial  ligaments had
already been so weakened it was unable to hold it there.

2. If this volmer bone as described is somewhere just above the
palate then it also might be feasible think intraoral injections the
Prolotherapists purposed into this area might also be able to
affect/strengthen the volmer bone which in turn would help
stabilise the sphenoid.

Well these are my thoughts I'd be interested to hear what others
here think.

thanks again

grant

Hi folks

couldn't believe that one Anne! so I had to go look.

here is what I found.


Upledger (with J Vredevoogd)
pg 187 says

the vomer provides functional continuity between the superior surface of the
hard palate
at the midline, and the sphenoid. This bone is extremely flexible and often
falls victim to
intraosseous strain, or strain within itself, like a torsioned piece of steel.
When
sphenomaxillary lesion patterns are identified and corrected, the vomer
component must
always be dealt with in order to obtain a satisfactory and lasting result.

pages 195,6,7 deal with the anatomy, and evaluation/treatment protocols.

Upledger Craniosacral II does not add anything significant to that discussion.

Upledger SomatoEmotional Release and beyond
on pages 91-99 of the chapter Mouth, Face, and Throat Work, there is a
description and
several diagrams of treatment techniques for the vomer lesion patterns. Not much
discussion, though.

the most interesting reference I have is Hugh Milnes book the Heart of
Listening, pages
320-325 (amongst others). I have the single volume version,it has since benn
split into
two books and I would guess this is in book two. Anyways it is the Vomer
chapter!

Stuart

The Vomer.

You will find little or nothing about the vomer in Upledger.  This is from
Franklyn Sills. Copied from his initial . unedited text.  Hence, some repetion.
It is located behind the nose and is a verticle bone . Very small and thin. It
is part of the gear mechanism.

"The vomer is moved by the body of the sphenoid.  Its articulation with the
sphenoid is a gliding one.
The superior aspect of the vomer is flared open and is called its rostrum and
articulates with the inferior aspect of the body of the sphenoid.  As the
sphenoid expresses flexion, the vomer rotates in the opposite direction and
there is a gliding action between them.  Thus the vomer acts as a 'speed
reducer' and lessens the intensity of the Primary Rhythmic Impulse, as it is
transferred to the hard palate.  Due to this gliding action, the movements and
pressures of chewing and talking are also lowered in their intensity as they are
transferred to the sphenoid and hence do not directly impinge on the dynamics of
the cranial base,  As the vomer expresses flexion, its inferior/posterior aspect
rotates caudad and descends inferiorly at the rear of the hard palate.  This, as
described above, helps lower and widen the arch of the hard palate.

The action on the sphenoid is thus transferred to the hard palate via the
actions of the palatines and vomer.  The relationship between them is that of
gliding articulations which reduce the intensity of chewing and talking as they
are transferred to the sphenoid and also dampens down the amplitude of the PRI
as it is transferred to the hard palate.  As the sphenoid rotates in its flexion
phase, the vomer descends on the hard palate, the maxillae and the palatines
rotate into external rotoation,  The pterygoid processes of the sphenoid further
encourages this, via it's articulation with the palatine bones, as it rotates
inferior and widens apart."

Compression is a common dysfunction of the sphenoid/ vomer/ palatine complex.
Being an important part of the gear mechanism, along with the ethmoid, it
depresses the motility of the whole cranial system.

Hope this answers your question.
Ann
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: fergalflann
   To: craniosacralnetwork@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 6:25 PM
   Subject: [Craniosacral Network] Volmer Bone ?


   Volmer Bone ?

   Can any one give any references to where I can find out more about
   this bone and how it works ?

   I've been looking around but can't seem to find anything on it all.

   thanks




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Volmer Bone ?

Can any one give any references to where I can find out more about
this bone and how it works ?

I've been looking around but can't seem to find anything on it all.

thanks

Could anyone tell me about their experiences of the effects of CST
on the voice - either with professional voice users (actors,
singers, presenters, teachers etc) or with general patients who
notice changes following treatment...?

I'm a voice coach and CST student (at CCST in London) and I'm
currently writing a final course project on the influences of CST on
the voice.

I'd be very grateful if you could share some examples of treatment
and results with me. I'm especially interested to know about the
specific techniques you used: what did you do? why? and where? What
difference did it make?

Thanks in advance!

Helen Sewell

--- In craniosacralnetwork@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Cook" <mail@h...>
wrote:
> I think there is a permanent rictus if the right lingual muscle,
producing pressure on your parotid
> gland.
>
> >

Nicely put, Andrew!

JMN

Gee, and I thought it was simple verbal diarrhea.

--- In craniosacralnetwork@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Cook"
<mail@h...> wrote:
> I think there is a permanent rictus if the right lingual muscle,
producing pressure on your parotid
> gland.

I think there is a permanent rictus if the right lingual muscle, producing
pressure on your parotid
gland.

> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
>    Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:03:13 -0000
>    From: "physio1980" <JNorton@...>
> Subject: abstract of a possible manuscript on physiology and cranial therapy
>
> Group members,
>
> Your reactions, please . . .
>
> TOWARD A PHYSIOLOGICAL RESOLUTION OF CRANIAL DIALECTICISM: A NEW
> PARADIGM.  James M. Norton, Ph.D., University of New England College
> of Osteopathic Medicine, Biddeford, ME, 04005.
> Unusual and inscrutable juxtapositions of bona fide scientific
> terminologies and obtuse jargon in the cranial literature have
> complicated the development of dialogue between proponents of
> craniosacral therapy (CST) and those deeply embedded in the modern
> scientific empirical gestalt.  The eclectic linguistic structuralism
> expressed in the writings of CST adherents regularly disguises the
> apparent profundity of their experiential conclusions, to the
> frustration of those readers who are seeking clarity and enlightenment
> within their own specific scientific parochialisms.  The integrative
> potential of Physiology allows the development of a new paradigm that
> creates productive consilience between the opposing hegemonies of CST
> explanatory writings and modern scientific materialism.  Addressed
> will be the application of quantum dynamics to discernable cranial
> motion; the roles of rheostasis and homeodynamics in the production of
> the cranial rhythm; and a new, holistic, integrative syntax within
> which these concepts can be described and understood by those who have
> massed their legions on both sides of this intellectual battlefield.
> Hopefully, the result will be a new order of mutual understanding and
> respect that transcends entrenched elitism and postmodern verbal
> expressionism.
>

Group members,

Your reactions, please . . .

TOWARD A PHYSIOLOGICAL RESOLUTION OF CRANIAL DIALECTICISM: A NEW
PARADIGM.  James M. Norton, Ph.D., University of New England College
of Osteopathic Medicine, Biddeford, ME, 04005.
Unusual and inscrutable juxtapositions of bona fide scientific
terminologies and obtuse jargon in the cranial literature have
complicated the development of dialogue between proponents of
craniosacral therapy (CST) and those deeply embedded in the modern
scientific empirical gestalt.  The eclectic linguistic structuralism
expressed in the writings of CST adherents regularly disguises the
apparent profundity of their experiential conclusions, to the
frustration of those readers who are seeking clarity and enlightenment
within their own specific scientific parochialisms.  The integrative
potential of Physiology allows the development of a new paradigm that
creates productive consilience between the opposing hegemonies of CST
explanatory writings and modern scientific materialism.  Addressed
will be the application of quantum dynamics to discernable cranial
motion; the roles of rheostasis and homeodynamics in the production of
the cranial rhythm; and a new, holistic, integrative syntax within
which these concepts can be described and understood by those who have
massed their legions on both sides of this intellectual battlefield.
Hopefully, the result will be a new order of mutual understanding and
respect that transcends entrenched elitism and postmodern verbal
expressionism.

--- In craniosacralnetwork@yahoogroups.com, asmtasmt <no_reply@y...>
wrote:
> First, THANKS for replying guys! Sometimes the silence of this room
> is deafening!

Are you still this group's moderator?

JMN

I'd like to make a distinction, in light of how I practice.

"Mind," as I understand the usage of the word, represents "what we know" as a
function of having created our memory (yes, we create what we call our mind);
that is, it is looking into the present from the past. Therefore, to have our
mind alert in the practice of any healing profession, is to bring everything
that we already know and believe to the table with us. How can anything new
appear in that? There is no room for an experience that we have never had! With
our mind in the foreground, we are always looking for what we already have
experienced; then, we are judging and assessing accordingly against it. We
filter the dregs before they will have had time to settle. We are so eager to
apply those protocols and techniques that have worked in previous cases even to
the first instance of a symptom. Yes, this is our common experience; it is how
we filter our perspective and create our reality.

However, A.T. Still and Rollin Becker did something outstanding in their
practices. They committed to putting what they already knew 'behind the curtain'
when they approached the table. They practiced sitting in stillness and
listening to what the body of the client chose to deal with. Only after the
client's system engaged in a process did these practioners then follow and
assist the process. They tell us that they felt subversive in this practice, but
that something always happened. Often they were amazed by what evolved. These
guys were very learned and excessively trained, but they chose to approach each
process afresh.

Understand that this is not neglecting intelligence and learning, it is being
accountable for the knowledge and using it in service to the healing process
that unfolds. It is agreeing NOT to bring with us a diagnosis that anticipates a
protocol in order to resolve what we have found a need to fix. It is suffering
to let go of the need to diagnose and fix. It is willingness to learn what
skills we have that each unique process is requesting us to use.

Therefore, perhaps I would say that, while my mind is alert, my awareness is
neutral. This is an intention and a skill for which I ongoingly make myself
accountable. I ask my mind to WAIT for the OPPORTUNITY to be helpful; otherwise,
my mind pursues what it can fix, which the Intelligence inherent to the client's
system may not require to be fixed. This is a commitment to 'what I know that I
don't know,' but that I do know that the client's system knows. In fact, the
client's system will 'get it' even if I don't, so long as I am willing to be in
the place of unknowing, because I have granted it freedom to be what it chooses,
not what I have chosen for it.

It is perhaps for this reason that practicing any healing healing art in this
way actually affects us globally, not just individually. How would you approach
your next client if you considered that the results of your interaction would
impact the planet? If you could be neutral and grant the client time to find a
place of rest (i.e., the system come to a state of balance), what would be
possible? Forget your need to be right. Put aside your wanting to fix and
correct or adjust what you believe to be wrong. Do you long for peace in this
world? Then make yourself accountable for peace. Bring your MIND into a STATE of
BALANCE before you even consider putting your hands on your next client. . . .

This is what A.T. Still and Rollin Becker stood for. They weren't out to create
craniosacral therapy. They were engaged in the process of healing that is both a
principle and a function of the body itself. It is the process of bringing us
into balance without knowing what balance will look or feel like when it
arrives.

May you be peaceful.
Brian McPherson, RCST

PS--I would like to create a way to study the affects of practicing CST (or
whatever it might be, regardless of what we call it) in this way, and I request
help in how to design such a study...

----- Original Message -----
   From: physio1980
   To: craniosacralnetwork@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 2:57 PM
   Subject: Re: [Craniosacral Network] Digest Number 158


   --- In craniosacralnetwork@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Cook" <mail@h...>
   wrote:
   > I really urge you to spend a bit of time playing with just sitting
   holding somebody's head very gently, and getting your mind out of the way so
that your senses can start to work -

   I guess that's where we're different, I like to have my mind involved
   in any sort of investigative, diagnostic, or therapeutic procedures.

   JMN

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Andrew, Chad, and others,

Thanks for the opportunity to have some meaningful exchanges on this
list recently.  I'll be unable to post or reply to messages for a few
days, which some of you may see as a blessing, probably. Just wanted
to let you know.

JMN

Reply to messages 2, 3, 5 (below)

> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
>    Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 00:25:31 -0000
>    From: "physio1980" <JNorton@...>
> Subject: Re: Digest Number 161
>
> --- In craniosacralnetwork@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Cook" <mail@h...>
> wrote:
> > Now the cerebral oxygen content varies at about 5-12 cycles/minute,
> and if you add the varying PPO2 to the ICP, then there is a *large*
> pressure fluctuation that will NOT be detected by a manometer
> > open to atmosphere because osmotic potential is only detectable by
> comparing 2 sides of a semipermeable membrane. <<

> You're mixing three different types of pressure here. PO2 is the
> partial pressure of oxygen in a solution, which is very different
> from, and cannot be simply added to, the fluid pressure of a solution,
> whether measured by a capillary wick manometer or with a more
> sophisticated method. PO2 is also completely different from oxygen
> content, and you seem to be using the two concepts interchangeably.

**
Yes to all of that - nevertheless, the oxygen content of the blood supply to the
brain does vary in
the same frequency range as the CSR (or CRI, depending on which CST jargon is
used).  Also, any
change in ionic chemistry on one side of a semipermeable membrane will change
the osmotic potential
across that membrane in accordence with basic thermodynamics Po =
(RT/Vo).LN(H2O1/H2O2)
**

> You then mention osmotic potential, which is
> essentially irrelevant since there are no significant osmotic pressure
> gradients with the CNS, its compartments, and its vasculature.

**
And although there is no osmotic potential within the CSS - because it is
enclosed within a
membrane - the blood-brain barrier and the lymphatic drainage sites in the
cribriform plate and
spinal roots are semipermeable mebranes.  I'm not claiming that this *is* the
mechanism for the CSR,
but it is a possible mechanism which I would like to see debated, that the
pressure fluctuations
that it produces would *not* have been picked up in most medical ICP studies
**

> So, I don't think you are correct in your deduction that there is a large
> pressure variation due to the sum of ICP and PO2 fluctuations.  You
> are correct, though, in saying that many studies of ICP are not
> looking for the frequency distribution of pressure variations at high
> or low ranges, but only at the absolute magnitudes of the ICP under
> different sets of conditions.

>
> Thanks for the rest of your comments, I'll have to read them more
> carefully when I am not so tired.  I appreciate those on this list who
> take the time to write their thoughts out in detail for all of us to
> read.  That's what lists such as these are all about.  We can take
> issue with one another's ideas, conclusions, or positions, and still
> maintain respect for those who offer them, without resorting to
> calling each other names.

**
OK - I appreciate what youre saying - its just difficult communicating with
someone who has a
different experiential background...
**

> Regarding the sensory information - on the one hand the CST and
> osteopathic communities talk about how much training is required to
> palpate the cranial rhythm accurately, but on the other hand these
> groups keep encouraging folks like myself to palpate someone's head
> and see what we feel.  If the statements about the training
> requirements are correct, I would only feel what a novice feels, which
> would not be accurate or meaningful....
> In all of my experiments, my examiners were experienced in cranial
> osteopathy, which I hoped would have legitimized the results of the
> studies.  If I had done the palpating myself, the results would
> certainly have been questioned by the cranial community, and rightly so.

I teach people to feel the basic CSR (on the body, *not* with cranial bones) and
tissue movements in
a weekend workshop, but taking that further into treatment protocols does take a
lot more training
and experience.  Even if you didnt have "accurate" palpatory listening skills -
which take years to
develop - you would at least have some experiential background to be able to
understand more easily
what we're trying to say.  Palpatory experience doesnt always translate so
easily into a medical
model - the body does all sorts of strange things, and fitting a
mechanism/physiology to the sensory
information is not always possible.  But for treatment purposes that doesnt
matter - except that I'm
sure that if we had more accurate physiological models, the techniques would be
more efficient, and
we'd be able to communicate what we do a lot better.
**


> --- In craniosacralnetwork@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Cook" <mail@h...>
> wrote:
> >
> > c) very light respectful physical contact is *allowed* by the system
> to penetrate deeply - hard
> > contact is not.
> >
> This is the type of statement that I find most frustrating, as one who
> seeks and encourages clarity in verbal and oral communication.  I have
> no idea what "respectful" means when referring to "contact"; I have no
> idea what "allowed" means in the context of your sentence; I don't
> know what "system" you are referring to; and I don't know what you
> mean by "penetrate".  The whole sentence is meaningless to me.

**
OK - its all to do with mental intention.
Firstly, there is an intention to only begin to touch with a few grams pressure
and a very very
relaxed hand, wrist and arm.  Secondly there is an intention to allow whatever
movements are sensed
as a result of that contact.  These two will get you a fair distance, but
especially for people used
to using the rational mind a lot, there is another requirement.  There is
something to do with *how*
you are using your hands, which I can best describe by metaphor.  If I tell
someone to "look", they
will then stare and even squint at something and try to see it by effort.  In
actuality its not
possible to increase the number of photons hitting the eye by effort - and so
the most restful way
of sesning something visual is to allow the vision to come into the eyeball and
make its way to teh
back of the brain, on its own, with no effort.  It is posible to use the hands
in a similar way.
Experience is very very definite in this matter - too much mental focus in the
hands and not only is
it less possible to feel anything, but also it actually changes motion patterns
in the other persons
body!  This is why I'm trying to get you to try it for yourself, because I can
make statememnts like
that, but the only evidence there will ever be for them is *experiential*
(subjective) - and if
youre trying to nderstand CST without stepping into the world of subjective
experience, its always
going to be a bit like paddling in the sea wearing wellington boots.
**

> Does "respectful" imply intent or lightly applied force?  Does
> "allowed" infer that the "system" has some decision-making capacity,
> threshold sensory intensity, or protective feedback mechanism?  Does
> "system" mean the head, the skin, the skull, the CNS, the CSF, the
> dura, the membranes, or what?  Does "penetrate" mean physically
> penetrate, or that the sensory information is somehow allowed to pass
> "deeper" into the central nervous system?

**
there are defense mechanisms on a mucular level which actively reisst heavy
contact.  If contact is
made below that trigger level, then *any* part of the body can be accessed,
primarily through the
connective tissue.  Respectful means not trying to override the defense
mechanisms, because (again
this is an experiential thing) - even if I *think* about doing that, there is an
immediate tissue
response.  This is outside the objective world of science, and outside the model
of biology as a set
of chemical reactions, and the implication of these subjective observations is
that consciousness
has a direct effect on physiology - even more - consciousness is an important
component of healthy
physiology.  Observers (palpation) provide a consciousness by proxy.
**
>
> Sometimes it seems that we are essentially speaking different
> languages!
>
> JMN

**
Yes - agreed - objective and subjective views of the world are quite different. 
The concept of
objectivity, like Aristotles system of logic and Pythagoras's plane geometry is
an investigative
tool, NOT a definition of how the universe works.
**

> A manometer, whether it uses water or mercury, is designed to measure
> differences in pressure (force/area) between two compartments - two
> fluid compartments, two gas compartments, or a gas compartment and a
> liguid compartment.  It does so by measuring the height of a column of
> fluid exposed to atmospheric pressure or by the mechanical
> displacement of a diaphragm of some sort separating two compartments
> containing either fluid or gas.  On the other hand, some osmometers
> can detect differences in osmotic pressure between two fluid
> compartments containing water and solutes, and requires, as you infer,
> a semi-permeable membrane separating the two solutions.  Other types
> of osmometers can also measure the osmolarity of a solution by
> freezing point depression or by changes in the vapor pressure of a
> drop of solution.  In any case, measurement of pressure  by a
> manometer should not be confused with measurement of osmolarity using
> an osmometer.
> In a manometer with a liquid/air interface, the relative level of the
> meniscus is related to both the pressure difference and the density of
> the liquid.  Mercury is much denser than water, so displacments are
> smaller, and mercury manometers are more managable in size when
> measuring arterial blood pressure, for example.  When small
> differences in pressure need to be measured, saline or water
> manometers may be used, such as when measuring central venous
> pressure.
**
I know - my background is as a research hydrologist/hydrogeologist - its a long
time since I had to
derive diffusion equations, but I understsnd the physics fairly well.
**
>Adding lots of salt to a solution increases its density,
> and may affect the vertical displacement of a meniscus even if the
> pressure gradient remains the same.  Therefore, your statement about
> "converting chemical energy into mechanical energy" is technically not
> quite correct.
> By the way, this is all physics, not physiology.
> JMN
**
and the most salt you can add is about 10% by volume, but the density changes in
an open manometer
tapping spinal CSF create negligible head difference - because the column of
fluid is not very long.
And the head difference that there is remains fairly static because you cant
change salinity that
quickly in the body.  On the other hand, I can generate an osmotic head of
several hundred *metres*
across a semipermeable membrane with that amount of salt, so a few ppm O2
*might* be significant for
typical ICP ranges.
by the way - "head" is hydrogeology-speak jargon for vertical location of the
meniscus above an
arbitary datum, just in case you use different jargon
**

Andrew Cook



> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 6
>    Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:09:23 -0000
>    From: "physio1980" <JNorton@...>
> Subject: ultrasonic measurement of ICP
>
> Group members,
>
> The following reference describes ultrasonic measurements of cranial
> diameter pulsations in a study of intracranial pressure dynamics in
> astronauts during spaceflight. Small cranial diameter pulsations
> (approximately 15 microns) were associated with arterial blood
> pressure pulsations during the cardiac cycle.  Thought you might be
> interested.
>
> Ueno, T, RE Ballard, BR Macias, WT Yost, and AR Hargens.  Cranial
> diameter pulsations measured by non-invasive ultrasound decrease with
> tilt.  Aviat Space Environ Med 74:882-885, 2003.
>
> JMN
>

Cranial diameter pulsations measured by non-invasive ultrasound decrease with
tilt.
Ueno T, Ballard RE, Macias BR, Yost WT, Hargens AR
Aviat Space Environ Med 2003 Aug 74:882-5
Abstract
INTRODUCTION: Intracranial pressure (ICP) may play a significant role in
physiological responses to
microgravity by contributing to the nausea associated with microgravity
exposure. However, effects
of altered gravity on ICP in astronauts have not been investigated, primarily
due to the
invasiveness of currently available techniques. We have developed an ultrasonic
device that monitors
changes in cranial diameter pulsation non-invasively so that we can evaluate ICP
dynamics in
astronauts during spaceflight. This study was designed to demonstrate the
feasibility of our
ultrasound technique under the physiological condition in which ICP dynamics are
changed due to
altered gravitational force. METHODS: Six healthy volunteers were placed at 60
degrees head-up, 30
degrees headup, supine, and 15 degrees head-down positions for 3 min at each
angle. We measured
arterial blood pressure (ABP) with a finger pressure cuff, and cranial diameter
pulsation with a
pulsed phase lock loop device (PPLL). RESULTS: Analysis of covariance
demonstrated that amplitudes
of cranial diameter pulsations were significantly altered with the angle of tilt
(p < 0.001). The
95% confidence interval for linear regression coefficients of the cranial
diameter pulsation
amplitudes with tilt angle was 0.862 to 0.968. However, ABP amplitudes did not
show this
relationship. DISCUSSION: Our noninvasive ultrasonic technique reveals that the
amplitude of cranial
diameter pulsation decreases as a function of tilt angle, suggesting that ICP
pulsation follows the
same relationship. It is demonstrated that the PPLL device has a sufficient
sensitivity to detect
changes non-invasively in ICP pulsation caused by altered gravity.

I'm not going to the British Libary for the forseeable future, so can only look
at the abstract for
now - but I'm a bit concerned reading the abstract that there are lots of papers
showing a change in
ANS balance with tilt, and since ANS balance affects arterial tone, theyre not
just loking at a
single variable there.  And since theyre studying cardiac pulse, I'll bet by
bottom dollar its gated
at about 2 or 3 seconds high pass.  I thought that it was possible to study ICP
using measurements
taken on the surface of the eye or ear.  I cant find the ear ref I saw, but this
is useful :
Intraocular pressure changes and mountaineering--preliminary observations and
possible application.
Chatterjee SK, Chakraborty A
J Assoc Physicians India 2001 Feb 49:248-52

Andrew Cook

--- In craniosacralnetwork@yahoogroups.com, Chad Hagans
<shouright44@y...> wrote:But check out this webpage for some
> preliminary findings:
>
> http://www.drfeely.com/doctors/osteo_articles_birth_tr_1.htm
>
> CH
Chad,

After browsing through Dr. Feely's web pages, I noticed that he
includes my original publication in the JAOA of my "tissue pressure"
model for the cranial rhythmic impulse, but does NOT include any of
the follow-up articles describing research based on this model that do
not support the standard biological model for cranial osteopathy and
that demonstrate inter-examiner reliability in cranial palpation that
is essentially zero.  Hmmm . . .

JMN