In response to "No Time to Live Right" (...) writes:
I am surprised at the terms used in your post. When I sponsor I do NOT give
advice nor expect results from my work. My expectations are reserved for my
recovery. It is important we provide guidance and help for our sponsee to set
realistic goals. Provide an ear to listen, a heart to empathize, and someone
to share with. Here is a link that talks about a sponsor
http://alcohol411.info/AA%20Sponsor.htm. We can not take responsibility for the
failures of
others as we can not expect others to take responsibility for our failures. I
do
agree that "we should do the footwork and release the results to a Higher
Power." The emphasis is on turning our will and our lives over to our higher
power. This includes our will for others to achieve our expectations.

The example you used about the multi-addiction, rageaholic being disappointed
when his sponsee did not do something right. This is a classic example of
someone not fully living the program and definitely not ready to be a sponsor.

I am having trouble understanding the example of the overweight woman. What
are you trying to accomplish directing her to measure her legs. It sounds as
thought she needs a professional counselor not a dictatorial sponsor to point
out what I am sure she already knows.

Each meeting we read our recovery materials including the steps and
traditions. Placing emphasis on understanding and practicing these principals.

I wanted to comment on your assertion that Sponsorship is selfish. I quote V
exactly:

" "You can't keep it unless you give it away." On the surface it looks
like we derive benefits
from being "generous" by giving away our program to others. Sure, giving
it away to help
others is one of the reasons I discuss so many recovery topics and
principles-you never
know when one will take root in someone and help them discover a new
life. But, the real
reason I share them is based more on a selfish reason than generosity.
The reason I write
about so many recovery topics and in great detail is; each time I share
them I am reminded
to practice these same principles in all my affairs. The benefits we
get from sharing our
program are derived from the practice that we are refreshing our own
program and
strengthening it each time we give it away."

I get my greatest recovery out of sponsorship. Many times I hear sponsees
say they do not want to bother their sponsor, they feel like they are a
nuisance. My response is always the same. You rob me of my recovery when you
do not
call.

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
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..
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V responds to (...)

I am very glad I just happened on your response (...). I many times miss
replies to my posts since I get so much mail and digests but am more than happy
to
answer a question as long as I get a chance to read it. If anyone ever wants
a response, make sure a copy goes to me privately.

I have no doubt in the sincerity of you response above (...), but must
question your words and truthfulness when you write:

"I am surprised at the terms used in your post. When I sponsor I do NOT give
advice nor expect results from my work. My expectations are reserved for my
recovery."

How can you be "surprised" with one breath and claim to have no
"expectations" in another? If you had no expectations of me, then you would not
be
surprised. Maybe you are immune form expectations in a sponsorship relationship,
but
it seems you have many expectations and assumptions with how I run my program
and have the expectation that I am a carbon copy of you and must run exactly
the same program as you do (...) to be successful? You see, recovery is not a
"one size fits all" program (...). The 12 and 12 of AA actually allows some
"flexibility" in working ones program when it discusses this on page 130.
Thoreau
also echoes this flexibility when he wrote in Walden, "that there are as many
ways as radii in circle" when it comes to solving a problem.

Please le me clarify that I do not sponsor addicts at all - yet I do give my
opinion to many of them but only in an informal relationship. I have a "sticky
mind" and this mind disturbs my sleep and my life if I let it. As such I
limit what goes into it and do not sponsor anyone out of a very high degree of
self preservation and desire to get some sleep. To clarify this matter even
further, if I type recovery related work on my computer for more than an hour or
so, my stomach ulcer starts to burn. So, I reserve my limited computer time to
work my own program. This is what I infer to about when I write about "living
within ones means." Without putting oneself first (...), or being selfish, the
addict will eventually fail. If they do not fail in program - then fail in
peace and serenity (...). I've been around too long to know otherwise and I
especially see this in the multiply addicted - which I am in very good position
to
get the view since I am in 8 - 12 step programs. My expertise is not in
extending my means artificially - it is with accepting my comfortable
capabilities
and living within them (...). I change what I can and then and only then do I
work to accept the rest. While you many not suffer form expectations (...),
or at least you claim so, many other addicts do have a problem in this area and
need tools to manage it.


(...) writes:

"I am having trouble understanding the example of the overweight woman. What
are you trying to accomplish directing her to measure her legs. It sounds as
thought she needs a professional counselor not a 'dictatorial sponsor' to
point out what I am sure she already knows."


V responds to (...):

Well, (...), this is a common problem with addicts. They do what "sounds
good" instead of what is good. Many addicts base their program on ego instead of
truth. I had little success with my program or my peace until I my program
became truth based instead of ego based. What sounds good to you is not what is
good (...). You also assume three things that are wrong. You assume that I am
her sponsor - which I am not. You also assume she has not seen a doctor - which
she has dozens of times. And thirdly you assume I am a dictator which I am
not. I have released this woman long ago and whether she lives or dies from her
addiction is out of my hands and I am at peace with either outcome. I am at
peace since I have given all I can give to her - now it is her choice. But, if
presented with the problem face on I will give my opinion and I was presented
with her problem face on the other day.

When you want money you go to a bank don't you (...)? When you want recovery
with an addiction do you go to the doctor or do you go to successfully
recovered addicts? If going to the doctor fixed addicts the 12 step programs
would be
at the doctors office (...). This lady has gone to the doctor numerous times.
Her problem and the solution to her problem lies within her and not at the
doctors office. The problem is in how she lives and how she eats (...). In
Debtors Anonymous they have the tool of "clarity" (...). I extend this tool of
clarity to many of my other 12 step programs. This person refuses to get much
clarity with her food or her body. Her legs are signpost of how she lives -
either right or wrong - just as my stomach ulcer is a signpost for me with how I
live. As I said earlier (...), an addiction can either be increasing,
decreasing or frozen and so it goes with this ladies legs. Hope this answers you
questions and thanks for your concern. And if I may be so bold, may I return the
favor and suggest not being so black or white with your opinions and allowing
room for others to work a recovery program in a direction other than your own.


V (Male)


For access to my earlier posts on voluntary simplicity, compulsive spending,
debting, compulsive overeating and clutter write: vfr44@.... Any opinion
expressed here is that of my own and is not the opinion, recommendation or
belief of any group or organization.


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