Happy Thanksgiving from a mudhole in Kandahar, Afghanistan........363 more days
but who's counting? ;)
 
Tom




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Brothers of the Nam ... sisters, friends, Happy turkey day!  Hallelujah!!! Poke
your heads up out of your foxholes, it's here! Really!! Thanksgiving is coming. 
Oh, I can taste that Turkey now. I feel the warmth of family abiding strong with
the love and fellowship of good friends gathered round the board to count our
blessings. Their love warms me even through tough times of hardship, great
trial, through fetid memories and tribulation too. But let us remember the real
reason for the season. Let us give thanks with all our hearts! Come, celebrate
with me this Thanksgiving. Let us prepare the way for Christmas love, by giving
thanks for what we have been given ... for indeed, we have been given much!

Playing here is beautiful music by pianist Margie Harrell:
"Give Thanks"
Read the rest of the poem here with more combat pictures and music
http://namtour.com/thanksgivinginafoxhole.html

Thanksgiving in a Foxhole
by Gary Jacobson ฉ November 2006




Well, here it is, Thanksgiving in a foxhole...
I'm trying to fathom what thankful presentments fill my soul.
You know, it could be a whole hell of a lot worse
I could be pushin' up posies 'stead a here spoutin' verse.
So I guess most of all, I'm thankful I ain't yet dead
Laced with bullet holes oozing red
Here in Vietnam, ten thousand miles from home
Sent forth the rotting jungle to roam.

War has reduced my passionate patriotism to stone
Still so abandoned ... still so alone
Still bearing pains born in this land of egregious hurt.
To survive it this grunt just keeps on poundin' dirt.
So pardon me for wish'n for family, hearth and home
'Stead of walkin' this park from dawn till dark
Just a might cumbersome...
Just a might adventuresome...
This blithesome war chuck full o' shock and awesome.

I guess I'd like to say I'm truly thankful
Heaps more thankful than regretful
Sent where ham and choker C-rats take an awful toll
Leaving spirits kinda sick ... kinda droll.
I'd give my left, uh, you know, manhood, the Nam to quicken
Fer a bucket o' golden Kentucky Fried Chicken.
U'um, I'd like some of that bird finger lick'n good
You better know I would.

In my foxhole, visions of drumsticks float in my head
Remembering feeling good and overfed
Thanksgiving feasts with heaping turkey back in the world
The parties, the girls, the cruising, the girls unfurled
My car, the girls, my mother and apple pie, the girls, my family.
That's why I'm here, just an armed turkey
Mired in Nam's fickle state of perplexity
Surviving eternal "move 'em outs" with a grunt's dexterity.

I'm most thankful for rare nights of relative calm
I laugh and joke with brothers, peace on weary minds a balm
When there's no bloodshed, no firefight
No Charlie's comin' through the wire tonight
Just the routine clamor of interdictive artillery overhead
Reassuring I can snuggle into Nam's warm ground, my bed
Though in my foxhole repressive fears always abound
Senses acutely attuned to every little sound
Tight so nothing escapes you, in or out-bound.

You see, I'm fighting here for freedom's bright ray
And they can't take that away
Though war's full of conundrums, in this dirty little fray
Where I clearly see man's hypocrisy and greed
Vile corruption in hatred's evil seed
For which my brothers for the good fight bleed
So I'm here for them, my brothers, my fellow man
Laboring alongside surviving in the heart of Vietnam.

I'm thankful for good things in this park that abound
Deep dank dark depths of hell in the devil's compound
True brotherhood forged in this gory battleground
Where men to duty bound, astonish and astound,
Men honor bound, war's complexities bewilder and confound
In Vietnam, where I lost the boy, but found the man
Mid contentious toil and strife
Roiling, boiling hatreds brewing his carnal life.

I'm thankful to know I'm living
To pay sorrowful homage to the dead and dying
I survived this war's inhumanity unfurled
Surviving back to this knock down ornery world,
From war's pack of lies to rise to kiss the skies
Grateful to live through what I've seen
That from wars bestial carousel careen
Living with ghosts of brothers and enemies unseen.

Though by the Nam heart-stricken
This 'ol home-boy can take a lickin'n keep on tickin'
Held in the service of our country
That sent me so far to march with hell's infantry
Carrying in every deed His ever righteous sword
In the service of our Lord...
Gone for the world to save
Risen from a most foul grave.

I'm grateful for my PTSD
Given with a worlds sweet pain to comfort me
Guiding me back to war's malignant melee
Once again down in the valley of the shadow reverie
Forever riding bestial iron horses of the infantry
War's ogres dancing betimes with me
Do-si-doing in and out of the maw of death
Welcome back ... grateful to take a peaceful breath...

So chow down on your turkey with humble thanks giving
Grunt, be ever grateful for your living
Grasp your family to your bosom dearly
Know there are men out there, who this night do not rest easy
Who yet hear brave voices whispering in hot war winds breezy
Daily contending with wrong and right
Men, women, this very Thanksgiving night
Valiantly pursuing for the land they love, the eternal fight.
************
Please pass Thanksgiving in a Foxhole on to fellow vets, loved ones and friends
who need to know, to all contacts on your list, that we may always remember ~
that we may never forget.
I would appreciate your vote for "Vietnam Picture Tour!" as a "Top Military
Site," at "Veterans Topsites." Just Click this link to vote:
http://www.worldwidetopsites.com/php/in.php?id=knights
Vietnam Picture Tour is presently in 2nd place on "Military Topsites" thanks to
your efforts ... so whether you vote once, every day, or now and then...

  Thank You!

Just A Walk In The Park
Introducing my novel, a book of beaucoup memoirs blended with facts happening to
myself, or soldiers just over the hill ... creative nonfiction/fiction, with
over 150 color pictures I took of combat in the Nam.
      These were indeed times that defined men's souls; times that set the
foundation and tenor for all life to come, eternally affecting your FOREVER, as
well as generations of lives surrounding your life. Vietnam was my delineating
moment, after which, in Shakespeare's words, "Life is but a walking shadow."
This book will thrill you with heart-stopping action, fear and danger ...
specters of death floating in the sweet-and-sour air ...
but then, you don't want to live forever, do you?

My Thousand Yard Stare
You've asked for a book of my poems ... well, here it is! There are over two
hundred full color pictures and graphics in this book of my comrades-in-arms in
times of batle, to remind us of the sweet-and-sour times that influenced our
lives so indelibly, with some of my most popular poetry.

I find bringing the PTSD demons haunting us out into the open helps us deal with
them. Talking, writing and reading about the Nam's days that so impacted our
lives, sheds light upon the relentless monsters haunting our souls ... renewing
honorable memories of those brothers whe served alongside us, by paying loving
tribute to those who paid the extreme sacrifice. Talking about the Nam disarms
the evil thoughts and deeds of times that have so impacted our lives which
inhabit our very being, coming to often in the dead of night unleashing horrible
fears unbidden to further torment our innocent soul. Talking it out is healing,
helping to restore a patriotic pride.

Buy either of the two books instantly at, http://namtour.com/marketplace.html
with the security and ease of PayPal or your choice of credit cards.  Or order
direct:
Gary Jacobson
6325 south Old Hwy 191
Malad, Idaho 83252

Gary
Gary Jacobson

Webmaster of "Vietnam Picture Tour," http://namtour.com/namtour.html A walk in
"the park" grunts called Vietnam, with the 1st Air Cavalry on combat patrol.
Experience chilling reality to leave the sweet and sour taste of "the Nam"
pungent on your tongue, the smell of "the Nam" acrid in your nostrils, and
textures of "the Nam" imbedded in you as though you walked beside me in combat.

My poignant poems directory, pictures and artwork to show the essence and
feeling of war on young "boys next door," See some of my newest poems here,
along with many golden oldies: http://namtour.com/nampoemsNpix.html

"Realm Of Poetry," Poems of love and romance, spirituality and meditation,
Golden Oldies, comedy, Quests of the regal knight Richard Lionheart to the
crusades and seeking the Holy Grail, dueling dragons, frolicking fairies, and
comedy ... and also links to my site of riding that bestial ogre called war ...
http://namtour.com/P/RealmOfPoetry.html

Please, this is not spam! If for any reason you do not wish to receive further
"Vietnam Picture Tour," updates...simply return this email with the word "STOP"
in the subject line...and IT WILL stop.  I have no wish to send my poetic
updates to those who do not wish to receive them.  Please include the email
address in which you received this mailing so I have it to remove ... and I
guarantee I will promptly remove that address from the mailing list, with no
hard feelings.

















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The DOD website has on it that it will not take letters or cards unless it is
addressed to a
person.

IOW no to any one or to a hero

On 23 Nov 2009 at 8:52, Jerry Foster wrote:

>
>
> I was involved in several programs with Walter Reed, because I once lived in
Northern Virginia. I was also a
> member of both DAV Chapters 48 and 11. Walter Reed made it very clear, if a
name is not attached to the
> letter they will not deliver it. I am not saying that it is not true now. I am
wondering if they have had a change
> of heart. My mother also once sent a card out, and indeed the card was
returned. I think it would be a good to
> call and check.
>
> --- On Mon, 11/23/09, Rick <eureka95503@...> wrote:
>
> From: Rick <eureka95503@...>
> Subject: [Combat Vets with PTSD] Fw: [FAC_TASS] Christmas Cards
> To: "Stephen Wilson" <zashiban@...>, "PAM THOMPSON" <primlace@...>,
"Marge Gentry"
> <megbooks@...>, "lester" <lcrabtree@...>, "GREG SWARTZ"
> <gregswartz@...>, combatvetswithptsd@ yahoogroups.com,
bzz12me@...,
> bflahe617@..., "Ann Fox" <Foxevent@...>, "allen"
<budb@...>
> Date: Monday, November 23, 2009, 8:30 AM
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Charlie Johnson
>
> To: Undisclosed- Recipient: ;@smtp103.sbc. mail.mud. yahoo.com
>
> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 7:51 AM
>
> Subject: [FAC_TASS] Christmas Cards
>
> When doing your Christmas Cards this year, take one card and send it to this
address. If we pass this on and
> everyone sends one card, think of how many cards these wonderful special
people who have sacrificed so
> much would get.
>
> I just called Walter Reed to check on the address and if we could do this and
they said we could but to use
> this address:
>
> Holidays for Heroes
>
> P. O. Box 5456
>
> Capitol Heights, MD 20791-5456.
>
> So if you feel like doing this and feel like passing it onto your contact list
have at it, I know the guys would
> like to get some cards from people who know what they are going thru'.
>
> Joan, could you pass this onto Class of '64.
>
> Charlie Johnson
>
> "The next time you look at a loved one, remember, it may be the last look you
get of them this side of Glory."
>
> "Sometimes, your rough edges are the only things your friends can hold on to."
CSJ
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

I was involved in several programs with Walter Reed, because I once lived in
Northern Virginia. I was also a member of both DAV Chapters 48 and 11. Walter
Reed made it very clear, if a name is not attached to the letter they will not
deliver it. I am not saying that it is not true now. I am wondering if they have
had a change of heart. My mother also once sent a card out, and indeed the card
was returned. I think it would be a good to call and check.

--- On Mon, 11/23/09, Rick <eureka95503@...> wrote:

From: Rick <eureka95503@...>
Subject: [Combat Vets with PTSD] Fw: [FAC_TASS] Christmas Cards
To: "Stephen Wilson" <zashiban@...>, "PAM THOMPSON" <primlace@...>,
"Marge Gentry" <megbooks@...>, "lester" <lcrabtree@...>,
"GREG SWARTZ" <gregswartz@...>, combatvetswithptsd@yahoogroups.com,
bzz12me@..., bflahe617@..., "Ann Fox" <Foxevent@...>, "allen"
<budb@...>
Date: Monday, November 23, 2009, 8:30 AM







ย 











----- Original Message -----

From: Charlie Johnson

To: Undisclosed- Recipient: ;@smtp103.sbc. mail.mud. yahoo.com

Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 7:51 AM

Subject: [FAC_TASS] Christmas Cards



When doing your Christmas Cards this year, take one card and send it to this
address.  If we pass this on and everyone sends one card, think of how many
cards these wonderful special people who have sacrificed so much would get.



I just called Walter Reed to check on the address and if we could do this and
they said we could but to use this address:



Holidays for Heroes

P. O. Box 5456

Capitol Heights, MD 20791-5456.



So if you feel like doing this and feel like passing it onto your contact list
have at it, I know the guys would like to get some cards from people who know
what they are going thru'.



Joan, could you pass this onto Class of '64.



Charlie Johnson



"The next time you look at a loved one, remember, it may be the last look you
get of them this side of Glory."

"Sometimes, your rough edges are the only things your friends can hold on to."
CSJ



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: Charlie Johnson
To: Undisclosed-Recipient: ;@smtp103.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 7:51 AM
Subject: [FAC_TASS] Christmas Cards





     When doing your Christmas Cards this year, take one card and send it to this
address.  If we pass this on and everyone sends one card, think of how many
cards these wonderful special people who have sacrificed so much would get.


     I just called Walter Reed to check on the address and if we could do this
and they said we could but to use this address:

Holidays for Heroes
P. O. Box 5456
Capitol Heights, MD 20791-5456.

     So if you feel like doing this and feel like passing it onto your contact
list have at it, I know the guys would like to get some cards from people who
know what they are going thru'.

     Joan, could you pass this onto Class of '64.




Charlie Johnson

"The next time you look at a loved one, remember, it may be the last look you
get of them this side of Glory."
"Sometimes, your rough edges are the only things your friends can hold on to."
CSJ







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I will get back to you soon.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Sorry for not getting back to you right away, the joys of being a long haul
truck driver.
 
First thing you need to do is think about your safety. Would he ever harm you as
he is right now or if he gets worse, if so get out now. As for forcing him to
get help, if you do it will probably come back at you in a negative way. You
need to talk to his platoon mates who saw the same shit and can talk to him on
his terms. His mind is a fast paced environment and that is how he copes with
the reality he is in. But if you can find a way to use that energy in a
employement situation where mental flexability is a good thing then look into
it, I would suggest computer networks.
 
Paul

--- On Tue, 11/3/09, JENNY B <jenbradford0911@...> wrote:


From: JENNY B <jenbradford0911@...>
Subject: RE: [Combat Vets with PTSD] wife needs advice..long
To: "ptsd" <combatvetswithptsd@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 2:19 AM


 




so you mean they would punish you if you tried to help someone who was being
victimized.. .I am so glad you helped that little girl! even if it was just for
that once! You have no idea how far it goes to be stood up for..even if the
rapes don't stop...at least one of the tapes that plays in your mind agrees with
what your insides are screaming... .NO!

do I FORCE the issue of getting help...as in drag him to the appointment? or do
I just let him continue to spiral and he becomes more and more dangerouse?? ? He
isn't going willingly, but he knows...because of the 'training' how to wiggle
out of situations he gets himself into...it's like trying to hold melting
jello...sticky, liquid, making a HUGE mess..but can't get it to a garbage can
fast enough without it ruining everything you pass it over.....PTSD!


To: combatvetswithptsd@ yahoogroups. com
From: hunter1092001@ yahoo.com. hk
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 08:45:38 +0800
Subject: Re: [Combat Vets with PTSD] wife needs advice..long

I hear you on the rape situation, I was given 6 months for removing 2 pieces of
scum raping a 7 year old girl. What is a soldier suppose to do, watch, take part
or do something? Special ops or in my case experience in field ops, the
situation is very hard to grasp, you have very little manuverability, but tons
of reactions if you fuck up. He should seek help if not from a professional,
then from someone who has been there. We entered hell, the poblem is some of us
can't excape it, others liked it, because the situation is very clean and easy
to handle. Personally I am in the later group, too bad I can't go back in one
last time.

--- On Sat, 10/31/09, JENNY B <jenbradford0911@ hotmail.com> wrote:

From: JENNY B <jenbradford0911@ hotmail.com>
Subject: [Combat Vets with PTSD] wife needs advice..long
To: "ptsd" <combatvetswithptsd@ yahoogroups. com>
Date: Saturday, October 31, 2009, 11:11 PM

hey everyone. I have been reading and posting here and their. It seems like you
all have a pretty good grasp of what is going on with yourselves. I have PTSD
from childhood BS that some scumbag decided to give me along the way...who knows
how he wound up...hopefully in jail...also from a drunken mother who used to
beat us any time she saw us...but that is another issue altogether. I am 37 now
and long away from all that and have just BEGUN to unravel the majority of what
makes me PTSD. Like many of you I am chronic only because I had it all during
childhood and into young adulthood and never even knew. In the last 5 years or
so I am really being challenged to change my heart about many things...but
again, that is another issue altogether.

I am writing about my husband. He served in Afghanistan in Air force spec ops
and crossed trained onto the S.E.A.L. team, but quit early into it. He sais it
is because they gave him an unwinnable scenario. He felt betrayed and actually
'cleared off the guys desk for him'...when he found out why the situation was
unwinnable. When asking him about the war and maneuvers he and his team did, he
always sais that nothing 'really bad' happened. At other times, he gives brief
recollections of scoutings where he witnessed fights, people being killed out in
the streets and for some reason, a lot of rapes. I guess it was a part if how
their military fought was through public raping? I know that through witnessing
all this and not being able to stop it must have caused injury.

FF about 17 years and he has all the classic symptoms. We have only been married
for 2 years, so I am just learning his triggers...which for some reason, one
very big one seems to be anytime he ever finds a picture of a man in our home. I
have male relatives and anytime he sees a pic of my brothers or uncle he flips
out and sais he is divorcing me. Is combat PTSD different from traumatic
childhood PTSD where marital relationships are concerned? Why is it one of my
husbands triggers to feel threatened by other men? Specifically other men with
me??? Aside from getting rid of the pictures of my brothers and uncles and the 2
gay male friends I had in HS...what else can I do??? Should I do any of that? Is
that the best course of action or does it just allow his symptoms to dictate how
we are going to live our lives??? in fear??? He is currently in treatment with a
GP who gives him something for ADD...but he had a severe episode last weekend
and ODed on his
meds...so I don't think what she was giving him was working. It is a huge fight
to get him to take meds at all. Do I let him crash and go psycho so he can find
himself on a lockdown ward for 30 days?? Do I tell the local PD/rescue... He
usually isn't violent, just really manic during these episodes... Do I force the
issue and make him stop denying his PTSD??? How do I get an appointment with the
VA for him if he isn't even willing to think about the option that he does have
this??? ARG! Any advice wouldbe greatly accepted! he doesn't have a gun that I
know of and does not sleep with a weapon. Out PTSDs are feeding off each other
like some massive tumor!

frustrated!

thanks all

~Jen

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
Windows 7: I wanted more reliable, now it's more reliable. Wow!
http://microsoft. com/windows/ windows-7/ default-ga. aspx?h=myidea?
ocid=PID24727: :T:WLMTAGL: ON:WL:en- US:WWL_WIN_ myidea:102009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger .yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt. com/GBL/go/ 177141664/ direct/01/
http://clk.atdmt. com/GBL/go/ 177141664/ direct/01/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
















Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

thanks for the message. I will get back to as soon as possible. thanks!
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

I wish you the best, bro.  Glad you joined us and you got some help here.
Love ya, brother.

Keith
--- In combatvetswithptsd@yahoogroups.com, pjvnvet@... wrote:
>
>
>
> Hey guys, I have followed your group for a few years, and it helped a lot.
Thanks!  But now is the time for me to check out of this group!  This is 3rd
try. PLEASE DELETE ME!  PJVNVET@...
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

----- Original Message -----
From: Chirp 71
To: Chirp 71
Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 2:56 AM
Subject: [FAC_TASS] FW: [505th] Fw: Vietnam Vets - Some Stats You May Not Have
Seen !!





This is old, but interesting and makes one wonder if the numbers are correct,
how many of us are left now.

Gary โ€“ Chirp 71/Issue 10x





Extremely interesting statistics.



Especially the 4 out of 5 phonies.



Daryl L. Meloche 505th TCMS



  For those who served in Vietnam ... Since we were all there, you might find
these stats interesting.

"Of the 2,709,918 Americans who served in Vietnam , Less than 850,000 are
estimated to be alive today, with the youngest American Vietnam veteran's age
approximated to be 54 years old."

So, if you're alive and reading this, how Does it feel to be among the last
1/3rd of all the U.S. Vets who served in Vietnam ?!?!? ...don't know about you
guys, but kinda gives me the chills, considering this is the kind of information
I'm used to reading about WWII and Korean War vets...

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

So the last 14 years we are dying too fast, only the few will survive by
2015...if any.  If true, 390 VN vets die a day.  So in 2190 days...from today,
lucky to be a Vietnam veteran alive..... in only 6 years..

These statistics were taken from a variety of sources to include: The VFW
Magazine, the Public Information Office, and the HQ CP Forward Observer - 1st
Recon April 12, 1997.

STATISTICS FOR INDIVIDUALS IN UNIFORM AND IN COUNTRY

VIETNAM VETERANS:

ยท 9,087,000 military personnel served on active duty during the Vietnam Era
(August 5, 1964 - May 7, 1975).
ยท 8,744,000 GI's were on active duty during the war (Aug 5, 1964-March 28,
1973).
ยท 2,709,918 Americans served in Vietnam, this number represents 9.7% of their
generation.
ยท 3,403,100 (Including 514,300 offshore) personnel served in the broader
Southeast Asia Theater (Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, flight crews based in Thailand,
and sailors in adjacent South China Sea waters).
ยท 2,594,000 personnel served within the borders of South Vietnam (Jan. 1, 1965
- March 28, 1973).
ยท Another 50,000 men served in Vietnam between 1960 and 1964.
ยท Of the 2.6 million, between 1-1.6 million (40-60%) either fought in combat,
provided close support or were at least fairly
regularly exposed to enemy attack.
ยท 7,484 women (6,250 or 83.5% were nurses) served in Vietnam .
ยท Peak troop strength in Vietnam: 543,482 (April 30, 1968).

CASUALTIES:

ยท The first man to die in Vietnam was James Davis, in 1958. He was with the
509th Radio Research Station.
Davis Station in Saigon was named for him.
ยท Hostile deaths: 47,378
ยท Non-hostile deaths: 10,800
ยท Total: 58,202 (Includes men formerly classified as MIA and Mayaguez
casualties). Men who have subsequently died of wounds account for the changing
total.
ยท 8 nurses died -- 1 was KIA.
ยท 61% of the men killed were 21 or younger.
ยท 11,465 of those killed were younger than 20 years old.
ยท Of those killed, 17,539 were married.
ยท Average age of men killed: 23.1 years
Deaths - Average Age
Total Deaths: 23.11 years
Enlisted: 50,274 22.37 years
Officers: 6,598 28.43 years
Warrants: 1,276 24.73 years
E 1: 525 20.34 years
11 B MOS: 18,465 22.55 years
ยท Five men killed in Vietnam were only 16 years old.
ยท The oldest man killed was 62 years old.
ยท Highest state death rate: West Virginia - 84.1% (national average 58.9% for
every 100,000 males in 1970).
ยท Wounded: 303,704 -- 153,329 hospitalized + 150,375 injured requiring no
hospital care.
ยท Severely disabled: 75,000, -- 23,214: 100% disabled; 5,283 lost limbs; 1,081
sustained multiple amputations.
ยท Amputation or crippling wounds to the lower extremities were 300% higher than
in WWII and 70% higher than Korea .
ยท Multiple amputations occurred at the rate of 18.4% compared to 5.7% in WWII.
ยท Missing in Action: 2,338
ยท POWs: 766 (114 died in captivity)
ยท As of January 15, 2004, there are 1,875 Americans still unaccounted for from
the Vietnam War.

DRAFTEES VS VOLUNTEERS:

ยท 25% (648,500) of total forces in country were draftees. (66% of U.S. armed
forces members were drafted during WWII).
ยท Draftees accounted for 30.4% (17,725) of combat deaths in Vietnam.
ยท Reservists killed: 5,977
ยท National Guard: 6,140 served: 101 died.
ยท Total draftees (1965 - 73): 1,728,344.
ยท Actually served in Vietnam: 38%
ยท Marine Corps Draft: 42,633.
ยท Last man drafted: June 30, 1973.

RACE AND ETHNIC BACKGROUND:

ยท 88.4% of the men who actually served in Vietnam were Caucasian; 10.6%
(275,000) were black; 1% belonged to other races.
ยท 86.3% of the men who died in Vietnam were Caucasian (includes Hispanics);
12.5% (7,241) were black; 1.2% belonged to other races.
ยท 170,000 Hispanics served in Vietnam; 3,070 (5.2% of total) died there.
ยท 70% of enlisted men killed were of North-west European descent.
ยท 86.8% of the men who were killed as a result of hostile action were
Caucasian; 12.1% (5,711) were black; 1.1% belonged to other races.
ยท 14.6% (1,530) of non-combat deaths were among blacks.
ยท 34% of blacks who enlisted volunteered for the combat arms.
ยท Overall, blacks suffered 12.5% of the deaths in Vietnam at a time when the
percentage of blacks of military age was 13.5% of the total population.
ยท Religion of Dead: Protestant -- 64.4%; Catholic -- 28.9%; other/none -- 6.7%

SOCIO-ECONOMIC STATUS:

ยท Vietnam veterans have a lower unemployment rate than the same non-vet age
groups.
ยท Vietnam veterans' personal income exceeds that of our non-veteran age group
by more than 18 percent.
ยท 76% of the men sent to Vietnam were from lower middle/working class
backgrounds.
ยท Three-fourths had family incomes above the poverty level; 50% were from
middle income backgrounds.
ยท Some 23% of Vietnam vets had fathers with professional, managerial or
technical occupations.
ยท 79% of the men who served in Vietnam had a high school education or better
when they entered the military service.  (63% of Korean War vets and only 45% of
WWII vets had completed high school upon separation.)
ยท Deaths by region per 100,000 of population: South -- 31%, West --29.9%;
Midwest -- 28.4%; Northeast -- 23.5%.

DRUG USAGE & CRIME:

ยท There is no difference in drug usage between Vietnam Veterans and non-Vietnam
Veterans of the same age group.  (Source: Veterans Administration Study)
ยท Vietnam Veterans are less likely to be in prison - only one-half of one
percent of Vietnam Veterans have been jailed for crimes.
ยท 85% of Vietnam Veterans made successful transitions to civilian life.

WINNING & LOSING:

ยท 82% of veterans who saw heavy combat strongly believe the war was lost
because of lack of political will.
ยท Nearly 75% of the public agrees it was a failure of political will, not of
arms.

HONORABLE SERVICE:

ยท 97% of Vietnam-era veterans were honorably discharged.
ยท 91% of actual Vietnam War veterans and 90% of those who saw heavy     combat
are proud to have served their country.
ยท 74% say they would serve again, even knowing the outcome.
ยท 87% of the public now holds Vietnam veterans in high esteem.

INTERESTING CENSUS STATISTICS & THOSE TO CLAIM TO HAVE "Been There":

ยท 1,713,823 of those who served in Vietnam were still alive as of August, 1995
(census figures).

ยท During that same Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to
have served in-country was: 9,492,958.
ยท As of the current Census taken during August, 2000, the surviving U.S.
Vietnam Veteran population estimate is: 1,002,511. This is hard to believe,
losing      nearly 711,000 between '95 and '00. That's 390 per day.
ยท During this Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have
served in-country is: 13,853,027. By this census, FOUR OUT OF FIVE WHO CLAIM TO
BE Vietnam vets are not.
ยท The Department of Defense Vietnam War Service Index officially provided by
The War Library originally reported with errors that 2,709,918 U.S. military
personnel as having served in-country. Corrections and confirmations to this
erred index resulted in the addition of 358 U.S. military personnel confirmed to
have served in Vietnam but not originally listed by the Department of Defense.
(All names are currently on file and accessible 24/7/365).

Isolated atrocities committed by American Soldiers produced torrents of outrage
from anti-war critics and the news media while Communist atrocities were so
common that they received hardly any media mention at all. The United States
sought to minimize and prevent attacks on civilians while North Vietnam made
attacks on civilians a centerpiece of its strategy. Americans who deliberately
killed civilians received prison sentences while Communists who did so received
commendations.

From 1957 to 1973, the National Liberation Front assassinated 36,725 Vietnamese
and abducted another 58,499. The death squads focused on leaders at the village
level and on anyone who improved the lives of the peasants such as medical
personnel, social workers, and school teachers. - Nixon Presidential Papers








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

thanks for the message. I will get back to as soon as possible. thanks!
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Hey guys, I have followed your group for a few years, and it helped a lot.
Thanks!  But now is the time for me to check out of this group!  This is 3rd
try. PLEASE DELETE ME!  PJVNVET@...





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

cyk8824st

I wish everyone on this board my very best that served. I am thankful to those
that are serving. God bless our heroes that paid the ultimate price. I'll be
attending a local veteran ceremony. I am one of 240 people that will see his or
her name rank and war on two new pilasters. It will be an interesting event. The
DAV paid for my name slot in Veterans Memorial Plaza. Have a safe Veterans day.

Jerry

thanks for the message. I will get back to as soon as possible. thanks!
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Wednesday is Veterans Day ...
for which I have penned these poems
to honor the beloved memory of those who are or have served in the military
even those Warriors who gave their all ... for us.
paid the ultimate sacrifice
  ... for us

Thank You veterans...




Veterans of Foreign Wars
by Gary Jacobson ฉ 2002

http://namtour.com/veterans.html

Veterans yet hear the distant rumble of echoes
Still feel memories shooting from furtive shadows
Still smell the choppers churning clouds of dust
Still go into the maws of hell by duty thrust
Still every night thru gunfire charging
Never forgetting
Selling his soul in fevered battle's pit
Rushing headlong to war thru it
Thru stifling fears of blood and mud cussed
And discussed...
Because he must!

Why, oh why
Does he tears of remembrance cry
For boys so valiantly brave
Sent forth an imperiled world to save
Offering their all for the heart of freedom
In copious shadows of war's maelstrom
By convictions forced to fight and almost die
His brothers interred in a black marble wall lie
Spirits at last in rest and peace sigh
Having fought the good fight for you and I
Battling despots craving for power's lust
Because he must!

Veterans advanced in a world of harm and danger
Forged ahead to meet the foe wielding hateful anger
Fetid smells of carnal death all around
Captured in every sound
No one can really know unless he was there
Unless he too for his country, arms did bear
Combating the life and death cliffhanger
Haunted yet by war's fleshly Doppelgไnger
Then, and now, to war no stranger
All life resting on his hair-trigger.

Veterans, once the hope of our nation
Answered in honored pride the call to action
Princes to the kingdom, sweet flowers of youth
Swept away to ride bestial ogres of war uncouth
Carried far and away by winds of war that blow
So our world in peaceful harmony might grow
Liberty's sword to peoples of the earth bestow
Through foul weather and napalm's breeze
Agent Orange defoliating life and trees
Through cruel war's grim legacy leaves...

The veteran gave us his most priceless gift
Though war did unexpectedly his whole life shift
Duty bestowed by greater love
Blessed by the mercy of
Courageous by virtue of
Resolute in dedication of
Determined in hope of
Brave by the strength of
Undaunted valor in spite of
Heroic honor on the order of
Bold in the light of
Lionhearted because of
Mother, country, humanity, freedom, God above
Our very way-of-life, all interwove.
***********************

Graphic below from Nancy Meek


Garland of Brothers
http://namtour.com/garland.html
ฉ 2000 by Gary Jacobson

No greater fear has a young boy found
Than death's specter of war, Vietnam bound
Men From New York, California, Tuscaloosa
Cowboys from Montana to Texas Odessa
Thrust suddenly into voracious jaws of abject death
Barefaced fear in every breath
Riding into the ravenous maw of flagrant death
Inhumanity before them wolfish, covetous, overambitious
Combined in this world of avarice
Just boys living with unmitigated suffering
Pure hate seen daily in faces malevolently glaring
Gone far and away from "the world," mighty pretty
Back home in Oklahoma City
From Washington, Kansas, Kentucky
Boys from Idaho to Arizona, hoping they're lucky
Students, farmers, iron workers, carpenters
Fishermen, miners, ranchers, brick layers
Gone fighting in jungled pit with hatred's insatiable
To contend with odds formidable
Burdensome acts intensively abominable
Formed this garland of brotherhood
Combat's bond sealed by sweat and blood
Camaraderie with their lives to trust
To make it past war's hazardous lust
Only way to hang-in was with each other
Enduring to the end...undying together
All for one, one for all, just hoping to stay alive
Striving in every way, fated war to survive
Formed a pact by battle's passion
Inspired by mankind's grievous ambition
Goaded by evil's vile intoxication
Brothers together in armed fellowship, terror seeing
Unimaginable horror doing...
Things perilous, graven, life-threatening
Desperate men facing desperate odds
Sowing and reaping whirlwinds of warrior Gods
The best of men facing the worst of men
Full-circle intertwined
Bound with ties that bind
Life and death contracts by flesh and blood signed.

This garland of brothers supersedes all others
Men in kinship with freedom's founding fathers!
Forget them...never!
Remember this fraternal bond...forever!
**************
  ~The Veteran~
by Gary Jacobson ฉ 2001 http://namtour.com/vet.html

All hail the honorable Veteran,
Whether serving as cook, tanker, combat infantryman
Standing hickory tall and proud,
Silvery head held high above the crowd
Eagle eyes burning no longer sharp and keen
Burnt preserving freedom's light they've seen.

A nations veterans put body and soul on the line,
Patrolling the valley of shadowed Hell's rhyme
Holding in pride now till the end of time
Deep feeling through unforgiven weeping
Remembering times with anticipations of dying
Hell on earth surviving...

Ask a veteran about Hell and High Water
He'll likely map out coordinates, brother
Likely carries brimstone souvenirs in his rucksack
Cause he's been there and back
Hells fire still burning in his eye
Never forgetting brothers who still over there lie.

Veterans gave their very best
Preserved sacred values for all the rest
Honoring a land more than life they love
With courage in duty all patriots eyes observe
Valiantly answering the call to arms
Faced an evil world of harms
Paid a deadly price at their countries behest
Ripened thru war's unholy harvest.

Veterans can talk the talk,
For indeed they walked the walk.
Veteran's know freedom's not cheap
For In mortal combat, you sow what you reap
Whether with scythe, sickle, or M-16
Peace grows from freedom warriors from battlefields glean.

Veterans don't take no guff,
So don't go putting up that weak stuff.
The fate of the world rested in Veteran hands.
Their sweat preserved these star spangled lands.
Veterans are the reason Americans walk free
Enjoying life through eyes seeing only liberty.

Veterans learned lessons of war in jungles greening black
In desserts or icy cold refusing to slack
Fought back rushing adrenaline
Facing their personal Armageddon
Waiting under fire for a virulent foes attack
Learned to watch a buddies back.

Veterans humped a sweet and sour perfumed park,
Fending off specters of death, dawn into dark
Rivers of sweat washing their soul
Dancing to death's grim rock and roll
War made boys before their time grow old
Unless dying a hero in actions swift and bold.

Veterans dreamed of sweethearts to have and to hold
Suffered fevered chills from bones weary cold
Fighting wicked elements wills sapping
Unbearable Heat Suffocating
Monsoon rains spirits Drenching
Enduring rice paddy mud overpowering.

Old Veterans faced enemies preoccupied with his death
Still fear often that final breath
Still gaze on the world with blank stares
That cruel war on their soul still bears
Remembering the battle's fiery combustion
Bearing Sodom and Gomorrah like conflagration.

America's veterans have seen
Agent Orange's virulent scene
Brought creeping to their families obliteration,
Delayed traumatic stress's lingering destruction,
Horrendous nerve gas distillation,
Mankind's Nuclear Holocaust proliferation.

Salute now our veterans who great honor bore
Who with brave distinction peace restore
Who've been there/done that, know the score
Who've gone above and beyond to perform that dirty chore
Offering their lives protecting generations from reality of war
A ritual sacrifice venerable veterans vehemently abhor.



A COMBAT SOLDIER'S PRAYER
by Gary Jacobson ฉ 1999 (distibuted by the American Legion)
http://namtour.com/prayer.html

  This combat soldier's prayer,
Who has served his time in Hell,
Is may we learn the lessons of war well,
That we not doom future generations,
The same old tales of horror to tell,
To endure what in youth they see mistakenly as glory.
Oh God, do not let our children
Repeat the same old story.

Make it so that America's babies live to grow old
In this land of the free and the bold.
Help us throw off the shackles of hate that bind
And grow old in a life of a peaceful kind.

Teach us that there is no glory in war,
Nor honor there that brave men should not abhor.
Teach us instead, one for another our brothers to love.
Shower us with thine Celestial message from above,
That we plant seeds of peace evermore
And make war-no-more!

But if I should die on some far, far away battlefield
Know I answered the call
For a grand principle of freedom to yield.
My fervent prayer is that death
May not have been in vain
Fighting for peace and right for the world to attain.

My brothers, American roses standing by my side
On alien soil dying
In the summer of my youthful pride
All the leaves around me falling.

Now I'm lying here still, in sunshine and in shadow,
Longing to hear, "brother next door, I love you so."
For moldering in the soft ground below,
I feel you living and loving in the world above me
Standing tall because I fought that you might be...
Oh look ye down now,
And tell me you still think of me
Honor my red blood, spilt that others might stand free.

Tell me that I did not give my all for you in vain
That brothers and sisters do not look upon my sacrifice
With hateful,
Or even worse,
Uncaring disdain.

Do not forget me when my valley's hushed
And white with snow,
Grass growing green in the summer of my meadow
Help me see the peace I lived and died for grow.

Make my lonely grave richer,
Sweeter be...
Make this truly,
"The land of the free
And the home of the brave,"
I gave my life to save
That I might too, lie eternally,
Forever free...


~Honoring A Noble Warriors Life~
Who Made A Difference

by Gary Jacobson ฉ 2001
http://namtour.com/noblewarriortaps.html

Play last taps over a noble warrior's sacred grave
Now gone before, the better way to pave
From the hall's of Montezuma, to the shores of Tripoli
Over hill, over dale, blazing the shadow of death's victory
Comforted are we,
This valiant spirit has now found rebirth
For he tirelessly toiled in war's hells on earth.

His destiny lies where the sound of guns are heard no more
Enter now that Holiest door to heaven's celestial shore
Reserved for those who gave all standing hickory tall
For family, hearth and home fighting the good fight
Resisting opponents of right with fists of valorous might
Who lived and died for liberty
That all mankind might breathe eternally free

Proud wave his bold legacy
Great courage in greater bravery
A heroes heritage in honored history
Hear this patriotic life story
A stouthearted tradition of faith and loyalty
Revered duty to truth his gallant birthright
With zeal sworn our nation's brightest light

Winds whispering of Divine peace in God's kingdom
Blow softly over hallowed grave of a leader of freedom
O'er a man who more than self his country loved
Who madmen's wrongs in this wide world righted
Who peace on earth so diligently fought for
Who for a consecrated flag, arms he bore
Whenever duty called, always marching to the fore

We will never forget him...
Metered with Pure patriotism's dignity
Answering that clarion call to sacred beings infinity
Head held proudly high with an eagles steely gaze
On ascent to heaven, herald angels triumphant glory raise
Singing of life's many deeds worthy of praise
For him stalwartly true to his beliefs abode all his days

A warrior's death, is only a warrior to higher slopes moving his camp
Strategically to higher ground, free from mortality's dews and damp
Moving to a position more defendable to protect divinity's face
To a sacred place near the Master's grace
No more to suffer a warriors tired and weary bones
Immortal healing free from life's slings and arrows atones

Now he's free at last from earthly toil and pain
Heaven's richest blessings to this valiant warrior ordain
Who smiled in the face of fear with disdain
Opposing madmen to the suffering of others cavalier
Standing as a worthy barrier to make life for others easier
Family, friends and country in devotion protecting
Inalienable rights guarding

Celebrate now the life of father, brother, son exalted
All hail his life true to values precepts honored
Who powers of mortal evil with his good right arm abated
Pass now into arms of brothers again reunited
Into the arms of beloved family on the other shore waiting
For this soldier's very being embodied giving
Who left this world a better place for his living...


Gone To Higher Ground
by Gary Jacobson ฉ 2001
http://namtour.com/SacredGraves.html
Oh those silent whitened crosses
Heroic symbol of a nations greatest losses
Holding vanquished spirits of warriors slain
Laid low to saddened trumpets refrain
Flowers of youth planted there moldering
Beloved tearing
In hallowed dust crumbling...

But they are not there. No, not at all...
Good troopers one and all
Our brightest and best arose from that grassy mound
Again they answered the greater call,
Gone to higher ground!

******************

My Thousand Yard Stare

Beaucoup poetry with over two hundred full color pictures and graphics in this
book of my comrades-in-arms, the 1st Air Cavalry, with other unit battle
pictures, 101st Aireborne, The Marines, the Wolfhounds, The Americal, The Big
Red One, The 9th, the Mekong Delta Riverine ... this book tells the story in
poem of the emotions and feelings of a grunt at war, in words that make us
remember. If you weren't in fact there, this poetry will give  emotions and
feelings of a combat infantryman to make you feel like you were right there
walking beside me in combat. It will give an appreciation of the great and
terrible sacrifices made by brothers and sisters in war. These are sweet and
sour poems of combat against evil found in war, both on the battle front and
plaguing my mind. They tell of the devastation, the heartache, the fears, the
struggles with the supernal against the devil, rife with wrong and right
besetting from all sides, the immorality of the inhumanity of men towards men,
the turning upside down of values. They deal with hatreds and the killing, death
all around, the dying deeply profound... the wounding of the spirit so telling
as to leave an eternal hole in the soul deficit.

Buy "Just A Walk In The Park," or "My Thousand Yard Stare." instantly at,
http://namtour.com/marketplace.html with the security and ease of PayPal or your
choice of credit cards.

Or buy directly:

Gary Jacobson, 6325 south Old Hwy 191, Malad, Idaho 83252

Keep fighting the good fight, brothers,

Just A Walk In The Park

A novel packed with beaucoup memoirs, blended with facts happening to myself, or
soldiers just over the hill ... with 150 color pictures of Nam combat.
      These were times that defined men's souls; times that set the foundation
and tenor for all life to come, eternally affecting our FOREVER, as well as
generations of lives surrounding our life. Vietnam was our delineating moment,
after which, in Shakespeare's words, "Life is but a walking shadow."
This book will thrill you with heart-stopping action, fear and danger ... death
floating in sweet-and-sour air ... but then, you don't want to live forever, do
you?

Gary
Gary Jacobson

Webmaster of "Vietnam Picture Tour," http://namtour.com/namtour.html A walk in
"the park" grunts called Vietnam, with the 1st Air Cavalry on combat patrol.
Experience chilling reality to leave the sweet and sour taste of "the Nam"
pungent on your tongue, the smell of "the Nam" acrid in your nostrils, and
textures of "the Nam" imbedded in you as though you were walking beside me in
combat.

My poignant poems directory, pictures and artwork to show the essence and
feeling of war on young "boys next door," http://namtour.com/nampoemsNpix.html

"Realm Of Poetry," http://namtour.com/P/RealmOfPoetry.html Poems of love and
romance, spirituality and meditation, Golden Oldies, comedy, Quests of the regal
knight Richard Lionheart to the crusades and seeking the Holy Grail, dueling
dragons, frolicking fairies, and comedy....and also links to my site of riding
that bestial ogre called war...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

so you mean they would punish you if you tried to help someone who was being
victimized...I am so glad you helped that little girl!  even if it was just for
that once!  You have no idea how far it goes to be stood up for..even if the
rapes don't stop...at least one of the tapes that plays in your mind agrees with
what your insides are screaming....NO!

do I FORCE the issue of getting help...as in drag him to the appointment?  or do
I just let him continue to spiral and he becomes more and more dangerouse???  He
isn't going willingly, but he knows...because of the 'training' how to wiggle
out of situations he gets himself into...it's like trying to hold melting
jello...sticky, liquid, making a HUGE mess..but can't get it to a garbage can
fast enough without it ruining everything you pass it over....PTSD!



To: combatvetswithptsd@yahoogroups.com
From: hunter1092001@...
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 08:45:38 +0800
Subject: Re: [Combat Vets with PTSD] wife needs advice..long





I hear you on the rape situation, I was given 6 months for removing 2 pieces of
scum raping a 7 year old girl. What is a soldier suppose to do, watch, take part
or do something? Special ops or in my case experience in field ops, the
situation is very hard to grasp, you have very little manuverability, but tons
of reactions if you fuck up. He should seek help if not from a professional,
then from someone who has been there. We entered hell, the poblem is some of us
can't excape it, others liked it, because the situation is very clean and easy
to handle. Personally I am in the later group, too bad I can't go back in one
last time.

--- On Sat, 10/31/09, JENNY B <jenbradford0911@...> wrote:

From: JENNY B <jenbradford0911@...>
Subject: [Combat Vets with PTSD] wife needs advice..long
To: "ptsd" <combatvetswithptsd@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, October 31, 2009, 11:11 PM



hey everyone. I have been reading and posting here and their. It seems like you
all have a pretty good grasp of what is going on with yourselves. I have PTSD
from childhood BS that some scumbag decided to give me along the way...who knows
how he wound up...hopefully in jail...also from a drunken mother who used to
beat us any time she saw us...but that is another issue altogether. I am 37 now
and long away from all that and have just BEGUN to unravel the majority of what
makes me PTSD. Like many of you I am chronic only because I had it all during
childhood and into young adulthood and never even knew. In the last 5 years or
so I am really being challenged to change my heart about many things...but
again, that is another issue altogether.

I am writing about my husband. He served in Afghanistan in Air force spec ops
and crossed trained onto the S.E.A.L. team, but quit early into it. He sais it
is because they gave him an unwinnable scenario. He felt betrayed and actually
'cleared off the guys desk for him'...when he found out why the situation was
unwinnable. When asking him about the war and maneuvers he and his team did, he
always sais that nothing 'really bad' happened. At other times, he gives brief
recollections of scoutings where he witnessed fights, people being killed out in
the streets and for some reason, a lot of rapes. I guess it was a part if how
their military fought was through public raping? I know that through witnessing
all this and not being able to stop it must have caused injury.

FF about 17 years and he has all the classic symptoms. We have only been married
for 2 years, so I am just learning his triggers...which for some reason, one
very big one seems to be anytime he ever finds a picture of a man in our home. I
have male relatives and anytime he sees a pic of my brothers or uncle he flips
out and sais he is divorcing me. Is combat PTSD different from traumatic
childhood PTSD where marital relationships are concerned? Why is it one of my
husbands triggers to feel threatened by other men? Specifically other men with
me??? Aside from getting rid of the pictures of my brothers and uncles and the 2
gay male friends I had in HS...what else can I do??? Should I do any of that? Is
that the best course of action or does it just allow his symptoms to dictate how
we are going to live our lives??? in fear??? He is currently in treatment with a
GP who gives him something for ADD...but he had a severe episode last weekend
and ODed on his
meds...so I don't think what she was giving him was working. It is a huge fight
to get him to take meds at all. Do I let him crash and go psycho so he can find
himself on a lockdown ward for 30 days?? Do I tell the local PD/rescue... He
usually isn't violent, just really manic during these episodes.. Do I force the
issue and make him stop denying his PTSD??? How do I get an appointment with the
VA for him if he isn't even willing to think about the option that he does have
this??? ARG! Any advice wouldbe greatly accepted! he doesn't have a gun that I
know of and does not sleep with a weapon. Out PTSDs are feeding off each other
like some massive tumor!

frustrated!

thanks all

~Jen

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
Windows 7: I wanted more reliable, now it's more reliable. Wow!
http://microsoft. com/windows/ windows-7/ default-ga. aspx?h=myidea?
ocid=PID24727: :T:WLMTAGL: ON:WL:en- US:WWL_WIN_ myidea:102009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I hear you on the rape situation, I was given 6 months for removing 2 pieces of
scum raping a 7 year old girl. What is a soldier suppose to do, watch, take part
or do something? Special ops or in my case experience in field ops, the
situation is very hard to grasp, you have very little manuverability, but tons
of reactions if you fuck up. He should seek help if not from a professional,
then from someone who has been there. We entered hell, the poblem is some of us
can't excape it, others liked it, because the situation is very clean and easy
to handle. Personally I am in the later group, too bad I can't go back in one
last time.

--- On Sat, 10/31/09, JENNY B <jenbradford0911@...> wrote:


From: JENNY B <jenbradford0911@...>
Subject: [Combat Vets with PTSD] wife needs advice..long
To: "ptsd" <combatvetswithptsd@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, October 31, 2009, 11:11 PM


 




hey everyone. I have been reading and posting here and their. It seems like you
all have a pretty good grasp of what is going on with yourselves. I have PTSD
from childhood BS that some scumbag decided to give me along the way...who knows
how he wound up...hopefully in jail...also from a drunken mother who used to
beat us any time she saw us...but that is another issue altogether. I am 37 now
and long away from all that and have just BEGUN to unravel the majority of what
makes me PTSD. Like many of you I am chronic only because I had it all during
childhood and into young adulthood and never even knew. In the last 5 years or
so I am really being challenged to change my heart about many things...but
again, that is another issue altogether.

I am writing about my husband. He served in Afghanistan in Air force spec ops
and crossed trained onto the S.E.A.L. team, but quit early into it. He sais it
is because they gave him an unwinnable scenario. He felt betrayed and actually
'cleared off the guys desk for him'...when he found out why the situation was
unwinnable. When asking him about the war and maneuvers he and his team did, he
always sais that nothing 'really bad' happened. At other times, he gives brief
recollections of scoutings where he witnessed fights, people being killed out in
the streets and for some reason, a lot of rapes. I guess it was a part if how
their military fought was through public raping? I know that through witnessing
all this and not being able to stop it must have caused injury.

FF about 17 years and he has all the classic symptoms. We have only been married
for 2 years, so I am just learning his triggers...which for some reason, one
very big one seems to be anytime he ever finds a picture of a man in our home. I
have male relatives and anytime he sees a pic of my brothers or uncle he flips
out and sais he is divorcing me. Is combat PTSD different from traumatic
childhood PTSD where marital relationships are concerned? Why is it one of my
husbands triggers to feel threatened by other men? Specifically other men with
me??? Aside from getting rid of the pictures of my brothers and uncles and the 2
gay male friends I had in HS...what else can I do??? Should I do any of that? Is
that the best course of action or does it just allow his symptoms to dictate how
we are going to live our lives??? in fear??? He is currently in treatment with a
GP who gives him something for ADD...but he had a severe episode last weekend
and ODed on his
  meds...so I don't think what she was giving him was working. It is a huge fight
to get him to take meds at all. Do I let him crash and go psycho so he can find
himself on a lockdown ward for 30 days?? Do I tell the local PD/rescue... He
usually isn't violent, just really manic during these episodes.. Do I force the
issue and make him stop denying his PTSD??? How do I get an appointment with the
VA for him if he isn't even willing to think about the option that he does have
this??? ARG! Any advice wouldbe greatly accepted! he doesn't have a gun that I
know of and does not sleep with a weapon. Out PTSDs are feeding off each other
like some massive tumor!

frustrated!

thanks all

~Jen

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
Windows 7: I wanted more reliable, now it's more reliable. Wow!
http://microsoft. com/windows/ windows-7/ default-ga. aspx?h=myidea?
ocid=PID24727: :T:WLMTAGL: ON:WL:en- US:WWL_WIN_ myidea:102009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
















Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

After I got out of the Canadian military I had the same problem. I found a new
form of employement working for your NSA for 3 years. They don't care about your
past or what is in your mind, just get the job done. In my case, I was just a
little too good at my job, and after 3 years I had to get out.

--- On Sat, 10/31/09, Tom <tbulanda01@...> wrote:


From: Tom <tbulanda01@...>
Subject: [Combat Vets with PTSD] question
To: combatvetswithptsd@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, October 31, 2009, 7:30 AM


 



Does anyone feel like the stigma of PTSD is to much? I am trying to get back
into the military and was insulted by a marine, army and coast guard recruiter.
Does anyone know how to get back in with PTSD, and not be insulted?
















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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Post Traumatic Gazette, Premier Issue


PTSD: What It Is and How to Recover
Text of First Issue of
the Post-Traumatic Gazette
(May-June 1995)
(The printed version of this issue is available free. Simply fill out and send
us the feedback form or write and send us your name and address at The
Post-Traumatic Gazette, P. O. Box 2757, High Springs, FL 32655)

ฉ1995 by Patience H. C. Mason. All rights reserved, except that permission is
hereby granted to freely reproduce and distribute this document, provided the
text is reproduced unaltered and entire (including this notice)
and is distributed free of charge.


STATEMENT OF PURPOSE: The Post-Traumatic Gazette is a newsletter for all trauma
survivors, from veterans to rape victims, earthquake survivors to prisoners of
war, their families, friends and therapists. It is dedicated to the idea of
healing one day at a time from experiences which forever change a person's view
of the world.

This first issue is intended to set out a healing perspective on PTSD which has
developed from my own experiences and from the work of respected professionals.
In this perspective we see trauma as the problem, and PTSD reactions as creative
and life-saving solutions to the problem of trauma. They worked. The survivor is
alive.

We believe it is normal to be affected by trauma, there is help, and it is okay
to ask for help. PTSD is not rare. It is not unusual. It is not weak to have
PTSD. It is normal to be affected by trauma. We can't repeat that too often.

Traumatic experiences bring to the fore survival skills which are valuable and
useful at the time of the trauma, but which usually become less valuable, less
useful and less effective with time.

We believe that survivors become stuck in problem behaviors when their pain is
not acknowledged, heard, respected, and understood. Denial plays a great part
here (didn't happen/ shouldn't affect you). Putdowns, dismissal of their pain,
misdiagnosis and other forms of secondary wounding keep survivors stuck.

Recovery is a slow process which doesn't come easily or painlessly. The survivor
must be heard, feel understood, and reconnect to a community. The Gazette is
aimed at helping to form such a community. Recovery takes time. The survivor
sets the pace. Recovery is not a race, and recovery doesn't erase the trauma as
if it had never happened. Trauma will always affect survivors. PTSD symptoms may
come back under further stress, but the negative effects can be minimized as the
survivor learns what they are and feels empowered to take care of him or
herself. True healing is knowing it is okay to ask for help again. Rather than
trying to put trauma behind us and forget it, I believe in another deeper kind
of healing where we never forget, where we keep the memory alive of what
happened to us and to others and we use our knowledge to keep traumatic things
from happening to others. We also reach out, acknowledge the pain of other
trauma survivors and encourage them to talk. We can make a difference.

This perspective also emphasizes that survivors and family members and
therapists are human and are doing the best they can. Recovery is about learning
better ways and letting go of fear, even fear of change. Slow growth is good
growth.

This perspective differs from the sometimes still prevalent attitude that trauma
couldn't affect a really well balanced person and also from the hurry up and get
it all out so you can get well school of treatment. Respect for the survivor is
implicit in this perspective. We don't rush survivors and we don't dismiss their
pain. Instead of comparing pain, survivors and survivor groups are encouraged to
respect each other's pain and to focus on what they have in common and to share
recovery. Each person's unique experience and pain is respected.

In this perspective we also acknowledge the pain of the families of trauma
survivors which often develop ineffective patterns as they try to cope. We seek
to create a caring community of people who have been affected by trauma and
share information on how to heal one day at a time.

The PTG would like to know what you--survivors, family, friends and
therapists--have found helpful in your recovery work. If you send in a letter
that I publish, you will recieve a year's free subscription. I hope the PTG will
be packed full of stuff which will be helpful to every reader. Other goals of
the PTG are:

   a.. To work towards a more scientific diagnosis of Post Traumatic reactions
based on observation of what is traumatic and on all the trauma related
behaviors of people who have been traumatized,
   b.. To provide new information on the treatment of PTSD and up-to-date sources
of good information on safe and effective help
   c.. To illuminate the connection between PTSD and substance abuse and
compulsive behavior.
   d.. To raise public awareness of the epidemic of PTSD and it's enormous cost
to society in rising rates of violence and substance abuse.
   e.. To discuss implications of the intergenerational transmission of PTSD in
professions, families and cultures.
   f.. To develop public policies which will be helpful for trauma survivors.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


WHY I'M PUBLISHING THE POST-TRAUMATIC GAZETTE

My husband, Robert Mason, wrote about his experiences as a helicopter pilot in
Vietnam in his bestselling memoir, Chickenhawk. His second memoir, Chickenhawk:
Back In The World and my book Recovering From the War: A Woman's Guide To
Helping Your Vietnam Veteran, Your Family, and Yourself describe how we lived
with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder when it didn't have a name and wasn't
supposed to exist. I felt there was something wrong with me because I couldn't
make my husband happy. He thought he was crazy. Many survivors of trauma and
their families have had the same experiences. As I researched Recovering From
The War, I interviewed survivors of all types of trauma, read scientific papers
and books, and found help in 12 Step groups. Today my life contains a lot of
serenity and peace which I'd like to share.--Patience Mason, editor.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


COMING ISSUES

July-August, 1995: PTSD and Families

September-October, 1995: The 12 Steps and PTSD

November-December, 1995: False Memory Syndrome vs. Lying Perpetrator Syndrome

January-February, 1996: Telling Your Story

March-April, 1996: Intergenerational Transmission of PTSD in Professions,
Families, and Cultures

Please share this issue with other survivors, family, friends, and therapists

(As of January 2000, there are 28 back issues available in the bookstore. See
list of back issues.)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


WHAT ARE POST-TRAUMATIC STRESS REACTIONS?
Post-Traumatic Stress reactions start with a traumatic stressor "outside the
range of usual human experience and that would be markedly distressing to almost
anyone," according to the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and
Statistical Manual, III-R. Since it is almost impossible for a non-survivor or a
numb survivor to understand or imagine what the survivor experiences at the time
of the trauma, and therefore to identify what is traumatic, the DSM III-R
offered four categories of traumatic stressor for diagnosticians and therapists:
(1)-threat of death or loss of physical integrity to the survivor (combat, rape,
incest, earthquake, etc.), (2)-death, threat of death or loss of physical
integrity to family or close friends (survivor does not have to be present)
(3)-sudden loss of home or community, and (4)-seeing another person who has
recently been seriously injured or killed. These were derived from reality: real
nurses and body-baggers had terrible PTSD just like combat vets, rape and incest
survivors, and people who lost their homes in fires or floods, or lost their
kids on Flight 103 over Lockerbie.

As a person is traumatized, at least for the first time, (Many trauma survivors
have multiple traumas.) the sense of personal safety is shattered. Two things
start to happen immediately. The person will strive to survive using three
available systems: fight, flight or freeze. What they called the reptile brain
in high school biology seems to take over and choose. Military training is
designed to get soldiers to always choose fight, but they wouldn't have to train
us to do that if we were natural born killers. Culture and religion often train
women to freeze, to take it and endure. In nature, flight is most common.

Simultaneously, while survival is at stake, feelings will shut down and
information taken in and processed will become very focused so the person can do
whatever it takes to survive.

Whatever it takes! This is not a polite, well-behaved part of us. It p*sses and
sh*ts in its fear. It scratches and bites and goes berserk, beating people to
death with the rifle-butt when the bullets are gone. It kicks and gouges. It
runs out on its friends, trampling whoever gets in its way. It cowers, unable to
get up or to fight, unable to protect those it loves. It may freeze or follow
orders that are against all the survivor personally believes in. Survivors may
feel shock or shame over what this part of them did.

Let me emphasize something: this ability to do whatever it takes to survive is
God-given or evolution-given, depending on your point of view, but we all have
it, and in traumatic enough situations, it will come out or we die. Extreme
situations which trigger this reaction again and again may cause survivors to do
things in order to survive which can be hard to look back on later.

This survivor part of us is not able to listen to "reason" either. It is going
to be looking for danger from now on whether or not others think it is
reasonable.

Real physiological changes occur in the brains of survivors which make them
quick to react. In order to live through the trauma, survivors may develop the
capacity to go from fine into a killing rage in seconds. That helps them live.
They may stop sleeping soundly. Sleep can get you killed. Survivors may be
uncannily able to read the moods of those around them because the moods of their
abusers defined their lives. They also become hypervigilant, searching for
physical danger all around and all the time. Due to hypervigilance and lack of
sleep, it is hard for them to concentrate on everyday things. They may do poorly
in school and believe they are stupid when what they have is a symptom of PTSD.
Survivors react faster and more completely to sudden noises. These are
lifesaving skills as long as the survivor is still at risk, still in combat,
still living with the batterer or the molester, still living in the bad
neighborhood, the bombed city. These are reality based, effective survival
skills. They keep you alive.

They don't go away by themselves.

Similarly shutting down feelings in order to do whatever it takes to survive, or
do your job and help others survive, is a reality based survival skill. If you
sit down and cry in combat you will get killed. If you keep screaming while
Daddy hurts you, he may kill you. If you cry in the aid station or emergency
room, you won't be able to save as many lives. Numbness is the answer. It is
effective. It will help you live. It will help you keep others alive.

It doesn't go away by itself either.

Unfortunately when survivors numb fear, despair and anger, all their feelings,
even good ones, are numbed. Numbness is comfortable. Thinking about what they
have been through is so painful survivors wind up avoiding thinking about,
feeling, or doing anything that reminds them of the trauma. For example, if they
feel the trauma was their fault they may spend the rest of their life having to
be right so they won't ever be at fault again. If they were happy when the
trauma hit, they may avoid happiness forever. If they lost those close to them,
they may give up closeness.

Most trauma survivors do not know anything about PTSD, so instead of seeking
help, they will turn to whatever is available, self medicating to maintain
numbness. Addictions and compulsive behaviors often are rooted in attempts to
numb the thoughts and feelings associated with trauma. Until recently, a
diagnosis of alcoholism or drug abuse made the effects of trauma invisible:
because he's (or she's) an alcoholic, alcoholism is the cause of all these
problems so he (or she) can't have PTSD

"Inability to recall important aspects of the trauma," is another of the ways
avoidance and numbing may work. This means the person cannot remember exactly
what happened. Many trauma survivors forget in order to survive. This is well
documented in the scientific literature for combat veterans, torture survivors,
battered women, child sexual abuse survivors, natural disaster survivors and
others, as well as in personal narratives. The current attack on traumatic
amnesia by the parents of incest survivors, involving memory experts who know
nothing about trauma and therapists who were trained back in psychiatry's denial
and delusion period (from Freud to 1980), will be the subject of a future issue.

Survivors may also feel that no one can understand what they've been through,
(which is reality-based). Another form of numbing and avoidance is that they may
feel like they're not going to have a long life. This is realistic if the
survivor has seen a lot of people killed. Survivors may also lose interest in
what they once liked to do. What is the point? Small children are likely to go
back to baby talk or forget their toilet training. Survivors may also feel like
they have no emotions or be told by their loved ones that they have none. They
may even be so numb to the damage that was done to them that they become
perpetrators and cannot understand what the fuss is all about. "What are you
crying for? I'm pulling my punches."

Survivors may also have learned to dissociate, to literally not be there, to
survive. Automatically checking out of stressful situations will make it hard to
have relationships or to work in therapy.

Numbness will make it hard for survivors to take care of themselves. Feelings
are there to tell us how to do that. If you can't tell what you feel, you can't
choose healthy behaviors for yourself.

I've just described two of the symptom categories psychiatrists use to diagnose
PTSD: hypervigilance and numbing. I've described them in this way because I
think it is important for survivors, families and therapists to understand that
this is not some random collection of weird behaviors, but appropriate and
effective biologically based reactions to extreme stress. They have a purpose:
survival. These reactions develop under conditions that most of us cannot
imagine or comprehend, although such conditions are common in our society.

A person has to have two hypervigilant symptoms and three numbing symptoms, not
present before the trauma, to be diagnosed with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.
That means if the survivor already had PTSD from a previous trauma which the
therapist doesn't know about and is already numb, the survivor may be
misdiagnosed.

Most trauma survivors turn out to have multiple traumas, but the diagnosis of
PTSD was formulated as if trauma was rare and only happened in isolation from
the rest of life.

It is normal to be affected by trauma, but not every one who is traumatized gets
diagnosable Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. There is a great range of post
traumatic reactions because people are different, have had different life
experiences, and have different capacities and skills. Some people do okay
during the trauma, others crack. Some people have no reaction till another
trauma, years later. Most people will find that post-traumatic reactions come
back when there is subsequent trauma. Some people seem to alternate periods of
extensive numbing with periods of explosive hypervigilant behavior or intrusive
reexperiencing (the third category of PTSD symptoms). If the alternation is
severe enough, they will never be diagnosed with PTSD because the symptoms won't
be present at the same time, but their lives will be scarred by the trauma
nonetheless.

These PTSD survival skills tend to become less appropriate and less effective
with time and can wind up being really crippling ineffective behaviors. For a
healing perspective, we need to keep in mind that the behaviors of trauma
survivors are direct evidence, sometimes the best evidence, of what they have
survived, of their experience. Reframing the behaviors in this light can be an
enlightening experience for the survivor, families, friends, and therapists.
Instead of being bad behaviors, they become useful evidence about the nature of
the trauma or traumas.

Along with three numbing symptoms and two hypervigilant symptoms, survivors must
also reexperience the trauma in some form. The most dramatic of these
reexperiencing phenomena, the flashback, forced the recognition of PTSD by
psychiatrists.

Psychiatrists were trained to deny that traumatic events did affect people
despite evidence from concentration camp survivors and World War II veterans.
When Vietnam veterans were having flashbacks in the halls of the VA hospitals,
some professionals were able to break this denial and see real people really
suffering. They had to acknowledge the flashbacks, so they created a diagnosis
centered around reexperiencing reactions. They tend to think of it as a wierd
reexperiencing disorder instead of a natural-but-now-not-so-useful survival
skill disorder. I think a more healing perspective focuses on the effectiveness
of the skills the person developed to survive, (hyperalertness and numbing). The
other approach makes it easy to stigmatize survivors for the very behaviors
which helped them survive.

Apparently sharing traumatic experiences is also necessary for human beings
because people who can't, for whatever reason, develop reexperiencing symptoms.
Survivors are reexperiencing when they cannot stop thinking (or talking) about
the trauma, when they are dreaming about it, or flashing back to the experience,
feeling like it is happening again, even if they are drunk or on drugs.
Reexperiencing also includes being upset on anniversaries of the trauma or by
things that remind the survivor of the trauma. New wars, highly publicized rape,
murder, battering and incest trials all affect survivors. Having a physiological
reaction to something that reminds the survivor of the trauma is also a form of
reexperiencing. The sound of a helicopter overhead sends a rush of adrenaline
through many veterans. Someone raped in a stairwell may find herself sick and
dizzy in any stairwell.

A healing perspective on reexperiencing is that this is an appropriate and
effective message from the survivor's inner self that he or she has been through
something that is too much to deal with alone. We are human, a species that is
interdependent, that forms families, bands, tribes, communities, and talks about
stuff. Survivors were not meant to face this alone as if they were polar bears
or some other solitary non-verbal species (although they may wish they were).

Reexperiencing is circumstantial evidence that a person has been through too
much to handle alone. Reexperiencing can also be seen as appropriate and
effective because it sends more people to get help than anything else.

Although this is not part of the current diagnostic criteria, I believe the
message from the inner self can come as a physical symptom. Somatization (the
development of physical symptoms) has disappeared from studies about PTSD
although it was the primary symptom in soldiers' heart, hysteria, railway
hysteria, shell shock and combat fatigue. People who will not listen to their
own need for healing often experience a lot of physical symptoms. The body is
trying to tell the story that can't be told. In light of George Vaillant's
recent findings that 56% of WWII Harvard-educated combat vets without
"diagnosable" PTSD were chronically ill or dead by age 65, this looks like a
field ripe for study.

Many trauma survivors appear to reenact their traumas, self-mutilating, getting
themselves into the same type of trouble over and over, or doing to others what
was done to them. These behaviors probably serve the same unconscious purpose of
speaking the unspeakable. Although such behaviors have been observed, they are
not enumerated in the diagnosis yet, and may never be. That doesn't mean we
can't keep them in mind in our search for healing.

For a survivor to be diagnosed with PTSD, three numbing, two hypervigilant and
one reexperiencing symptom have to last a month. If you have seventeen numbing
symptoms, one hypervigilant and are not reexperiencing this month you won't be
diagnosed with PTSD, but traumatic events will be ruling your life.

Symptoms may come on soon after the trauma or fifty years later. That is the
post in PTSD. It is normal for symptoms to come up again in the face of further
trauma and in times of high stress. It is normal to be affected by trauma. 17 %
of the teenagers in Detroit have diagnosible PTSD according to one study.
Another study showed that 69% of the surviving spouses of police officers killed
in the line of duty have diagnosible PTSD. 66% of Vietnam veterans exposed to
high war zone stress have had diagnosible PTSD and 33% still do today. Several
studies of WWII combat/pow veterans in the hospital for other problems have
shown that at least 50% of them have had PTSD and about 30 % still do.

Israeli studies show that people who have been traumatized react faster and more
deeply to each subsequent trauma. In addition, the effects of a traumatic
stressor are worse when the cause is human neglect or human cruelty.

There are other post traumatic reactions which have not been studied including
workaholism which might be invisible to workaholic doctors. Family system
effects are just beginning to be studied, but many survivors manage to look good
at great expense to their families. A child playing the role of family hero is
not seen as a sign of family dysfunction, but as proof of good psychosocial
adjustment. As a community of survivors, family, friends, and therapists, we
need to look at our experiences, examining everything to see how it relates to
trauma because what happens to people affects them.

Denial and discounting are the skills society has developed to deal with trauma,
as expressed in "It wasn't that bad," and "Aren't you over that yet?" Statements
like these cause secondary wounding in trauma survivors. They reinforce the
mistrust trauma evokes in all survivors who no longer can believe that the
universe is fair and just. Secondary wounding by the medical community has been
a serious problem, from the incest survivor, revealing her rape by her father
and being told by the male psychiatrist (trained to believe this), "You know you
wanted it," to the thousands of misdiagnosed, mistreated Vietnam veterans of the
seventies,( many of whom are now dead).

It is a problem that still persists. In DSM IV, published this year, the APA has
dropped the list of what is traumatic, and the all important sentence which
points out that if it would be upsetting to almost anyone and it isn't to this
person then maybe that's one of the symptoms of PTSD, and added the peculiar
phrase that the person has to have felt "fear horror or helplessness" at the
time.

Most trauma survivors that I know can't feel. The diagnostician or therapist is
the one who may be able to call up appropriate feelings (eg. grief, rage) about
the incident. The survivor shouldn't have to and probably can't without a lot of
healing. What this really says is that if bad things happen to you and you don't
feel the authorized feelings, they weren't bad things. This is neither logical
nor scientific. It will create a class of good survivors who get diagnosis and
treatment, and another (bad) class who due to numbing get misdiagnosed and
mistreated, just as veterans were after Vietnam. If the APA really needs to list
feelings, a more realistic and more diagnostic set would include disbelief,
betrayal, feeling nothing, and feeling comfortable. The latter two would signal
to any experienced therapist that this person already had PTSD before this
latest stressor. Many people have multiple stressors over the course of a
lifetime, and have already developed PTSD long before they see a professional.

The words fear horror or helplessness were added to the diagnosis because trauma
turned out to be far more prevalent than the APA expected. (Yes, I am laughing!)
The whole diagnosis of PTSD reflects the upper middle class idea that trauma
itself is rare. It ain't!

Rather than redefining trauma as evoking particular emotions, I'd like to see us
open our eyes to the invisible effects of trauma. We must become aware of the
costs to survivors, society and families of all forms of numbing and
hyperarousal including socially acceptable dysfunctional behavior. By ignoring
it, we often simply put off to the next generation the cost and effort of
recovering from trauma, and the effects of trauma increase geometrically. This
is particularly true because something which might be mildly traumatic to a
grownup, particlarly one who is numb, is terrifyingly traumatic to a small
child. As Beverly James points out, the well known phenomena of the "good"
hospitalized child who "misbehaves" when the parent shows up is actually a
terrified traumatized child displaying learned helplessness and the freeze
response who becomes brave enough to voice his or her terror when the parents
are around.

What else can't we see?

One of the facts we need to face is that PTSD is an epidemic. For every incest
survivor, every battered woman, every combat veteran, every holocaust survivor,
every survivor of a fire, plane wreck, night club fire, rape, torture, mugging,
hurricane, tornado, earthquake, every cop, nurse, firefighter, EMT, for everyone
whose pain is not listened to and felt and accepted and healed, the effects of
the trauma spread geometrically. Drug abuse, AIDS, heart disease, obesity and
alcoholism are all related to the epidemic of PTSD through the compulsive
behaviors people use to numb their pain and the inability to take care of one's
self which numbing causes.

If 17 % of the teenagers in Detroit had tuberculosis, it would be a national
emergency. Because they have PTSD, and PTSD is not acknowledged nor well
understood, no one is talking about it. But we can. --Patience Mason



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


RECOVERING FROM PTSD:
It is normal to be affected by trauma. That is the most important message in
this newsletter. Recovery is healing your life. You'll have a scar. You'll also
know what to do if the pain comes up again. Trauma never stops affecting most
trauma survivors. Those who forget or deny how much pain they were (or are) in
can't help others, can barely help themselves. They hurt others with remarks
like "I was in a real war," or "Put it behind you!"

PTSD symptoms, numbing, hypervigilance and reexperiencing, are hints to get
help! They helped you survive, but they do not go away by themselves. People
have to warp their lives to control them. They can become both ineffective and a
source of constant pain. When that happens, it is possible to change.

If you are in pain because of the way your life is today, you can change your
life. It will be a slow process. Pain will come from the memories of what you
survived and from frustration at new stresses and slow progress. It is okay to
be in pain. That is the first principle of recovery. Your experiences were
painful. You survived the pain of the actual trauma, and you can survive the
memories. To recover you need to know at least a part of what you survived, to
reconnect your feelings to those events, and mourn your losses.

Treat yourself with respect. Respect your experiences and your problems. Your
symptoms are circumstantial evidence that you have been through a lot. PTSD is
normal when you have been traumatized. You are not weak, weird, or unusual. If
we could live through something without it affecting us, it wouldn't be trauma
and we wouldn't be human. Admitting we're human and we have problems is
respectful of ourselves. Many trauma survivors minimize the effects of what
they've been through (It didn't affect me!) and then wind up resenting people
for not respecting their pain. This is human but not very effective.

There is no rush in recovery. Recovery is based on acceptance. I have been
traumatized. It did affect me. Why wouldn't it? I have skills that kept me alive
which are now causing me trouble. I'm closed off from my feelings and from
others. This makes my life lonely and difficult. I am in pain from my memories
because what I went through was painful. I need help.

It's ok to need help

It is ok to ask for help.

Help is available from therapists who are well trained in the field of trauma.
Ask about training and experience and pick someone you are comfortable with.

For years 12 step programs were the only help available to survivors who
self-medicated with alcohol or drugs. Thousands of veterans, incest and domestic
violence survivors and others have dealt with PTSD by going to Alcoholics
Anonymous, Al-Anon, Overeaters Anonymous and other 12 step programs. I started
going to one to get help with my problems in living with a guy with PTSD, but
since I knew about PTSD, I saw it everywhere. It was clear to me that the people
who get diagnosed and get help from the psychiatric community are the tip of the
iceberg. Many 12 steppers mistrusted everyone and everything except the 12 step
fellowship they were in for good reason. Their traumatic experiences had been
ignored and discounted and their self-medication called willful misconduct or
self indulgence. They had been insulted, misdiagnosed, drugged and told it was
all in their head.

There were people who thought they were stupid because they couldn't concentrate
in school but thought being battered hadn't affected them because they always
had a job and could take a beating from anyone, people who had stayed drunk for
20 years, married a series of alcoholics, or weighed 300 pounds and never
connected it to their traumas. Trauma was invisible to the survivors who thought
it shouldn't bother them. Yet, using the steps they were slowly recovering; some
simply through working the steps of the program. Others needed and became able
to seek outside help.

It takes time to get better. Getting better is the reward for taking the time to
recover. Getting better is a slow process. The physiological arousal which many
trauma survivors live in makes it difficult for survivors to take in the kind of
information needed to heal. This is part of the brain chemistry of survivors. It
is not resistance. People can talk about changing but all survivors see is their
lips moving. The words and concepts make no sense. This is because they are
taking in survival information: who's in the room, where are they sitting, where
is the door, how are they reacting to me? In twelve step meetings we have a
saying which describes this process: "came, came to, came to believe," meaning
we got ourselves to meetings (or therapy), eventually we started to be able to
hear what was being said, and finally we came to believe it could work for us
too.

Safety first. Survivors won't feel safe with a therapist or group until they
have, over time, experienced safety. Why should they? When they have been
treated with respect, not discounted, not pushed to hurry up and recover (which
are secondary wounding experiences and make PTSD worse), they will feel safe and
know it because they will be able to hear and understand what the therapist or
group is saying in a new way. A good therapist or 12 step group will let you
take your time and treat your traumas with respect. Badly trained therapists
often exhibit what I like to call "a profound and pervasive narcissistic sense
of entitlement," which manifests itself as "I'm a therapist. You should trust
me. I can fix you." An honest therapist will say he or she may be able to help
you work on this problem..

When they can hear, survivors can begin to work on safety issues, understanding
and protecting themselves from triggers, learning to handle anger and fear.
Survivors can develop the capacity to respond rather than react, like having a
pause button instead of an on-off switch. Sobriety is necessary if you've been
using alcohol, drugs, food or some behavior to numb your feelings. You can't
heal what you can't feel.

Once safety has been established, trauma work may begin. Rushing through trauma
work is to be avoided. When you feel safe enough, you will remember. Some people
use hypnosis to speed this up. Experienced therapists now prefer to let memories
surface when they will.

Today in many communities, after a crisis all the rescue workers are debriefed.
They get to talk about what happened, what they saw, smelled, heard, felt, what
they wanted to have happen and how it all turned out. Debriefing is what trauma
work is about. You don't have to know every detail or relive every moment of
trauma. As you talk about what happened to you and feel the feelings you had to
suppress to live, you will relearn the broad variety of human feelings, because
they have all been suppressed along with the painful ones. Recovery will help
you understand yourself and be understood. This is a very healing experience for
people who have felt like no one could ever understand what they have been
through.

Groups are particularly helpful in recovering from trauma. You are not alone.
Others have been through similar pain. It helps to see others progress, to learn
ways to grow yourself, and to help those who come after you.

Searching for the right help is important. You need to be comfortable enough
with the therapist or group. On the other hand searching for the perfect group
or a therapist who will never make a mistake can put off recovery for life. The
therapist or group is not going to fix you. They (therapist, other group
members) provide you with information and a variety of skills, and you do the
work.

A word on drugs: There is no drug for PTSD. If you choose a well trained
therapist, short term drug therapy may help with physiological arousal and
enable you to benefit more from therapy in the beginning.

HELPFUL CONCEPTS

It is okay to hurt. As a survivor, you need to go through the process of
mourning which takes about two years if your mother dies of old age in her bed
at home and you were expecting it. Traumatic losses take longer.

Mourning has five stages:

   a.. Denial: is screaming "No! No!' at the time of the trauma. It is also
"Never Happened!" and "Didn't affect me!" People can get stuck in denial for
years.
   b.. Rage: People get stuck in the rage stage, too, screaming and lashing out
at everyone around them, or coldly angry and unable to change.
   c.. Bargaining: Stuck bargaining includes veterans who will only get well if
the VA gets perfect or if Nixon or Fonda goes to jail, the child abuse survivor
who will only get well when patriarchy is gone, or the survivor who will only
get better when he or she finds a perfect therapist.
   d.. Sadness: The sadness stage is very difficult for most survivors because of
our feelgood culture. Being sad is practically illegal. Sadness refused leads me
to deep depression, but today if I start to feel depressed, I ask myself what do
I need to feel sad about. If I can identify and feel it, I don't get depressed.
Sadness needs to be felt. What happened to you was sad, painful, grevious. The
only way out is through. Those feelings won't kill you. It is okay to grieve.
Grief is part of life.
   e.. Acceptance: The final stage. Yes this did happen. It was bad and it has
affected me. I have a scar, but I survived. In time, I may be able to use my
experiences to help other survivors.
Recovery takes persistence and patience. "Progress not perfection" is a good
motto. Recovery is not a smooth swift rise out of the depths of pain or
numbness. It is a rough climb with many slips and lots of hanging on at new
rough places in the climb.

"We recycle" is a slogan that will help you laugh when you slip. Acceptance of
the slowness of the process is hard but it's reality. Since PTSD symptoms can
come back with new stress, knowing that it is normal to recycle can help you
continue to recover.

It takes what it takes and it takes as long as it takes. Human beings hardly
ever change quickly except under extreme stress, so be easy on yourself. In
response to the idea, I should be over this, remember this slogan (made up by
yours truly) "Everything after the word should is bullsh*t."

H.O.W.? Honesty, openness, and willingness are characteristics that will help
anyone recover. These things did happen and do affect us (honest). We can find
help if we look (open). We try suggestions from others who have recovered or
have worked with others who have recovered (willing). This is not to say that
every idea or suggestion will work for you. Some won't. Some will be very
uncomfortable, but will have a healing effect on your life, like getting sober

Yet. If those ideas scare you, the most healing word in the English language is
yet, as in I can't do that yet... Someday you will when you are ready.

Willing to vs Wanting to: There is also a great deal of difference between the
words "want" and "willing." Spelled differently. Mean different things.
Willingness may mean I do things I don't want to do! If I wait till I want to do
the things that will help me recover, I may never recover.

We heal by degrees. You don't have to heal perfectly or on someone else's
schedule. People do this work in stages and have to take breaks from it.

Feelings are facts: you feel what you feel. It doesn't have to be reasonable,
justified, or what other people feel. Feelings do not have brains. They are not
logical! Part of recovery is learning what you do feel so you can take care of
yourself. Trying to take care of yourself without knowing what you feel is like
trying to budget without knowing your income.

Feelings are not facts: Emotional reasoning is a distorted way of thinking
common in our society: I feel it therefore it is true. I feel hurt therefore he/
she meant to hurt me. I feel guilty therefore I am guilty. Many of us tend to
feel hurt by or guilty about everything. It comes with our culture, but we don't
have to believe it.

It is ok to feel more than one contradictory emotion at the same time.

Respect your emotions but don't necessarily believe them and don't act on them
in old ways. People can change by acting in new ways until new feelings come.
Waiting till they feel like changing is a dead end for most people!

When trauma survivors begin to get better it is very scary for family members.
Underlying this is the fear that if you change you may not love them any more.
You may wonder why they have problems since they weren't traumatized. Next month
I'll talk more about the effects of living with PTSD, of seeing someone hurting
and doing all you can to help and having it all be useless.

Don't compare: Compassion is something that develops in recovery. You will see
that what each person has lived through is the worst thing he or she has been
through. Remembering how you felt after the first firefight, the first beating,
the first time someone in your neighborhood was gunned down, before you got so
numb, will give you empathy for others.

Recovery leads to autonomy, the feeling of being whole, the ability to change
when necessary and the ability to regulate yourself. These are important
concepts to people who may feel they have lost great parts of themselves. You
may not get all of yourself back, but you can get some of it back. For people
who have been stuck in survivor skills, being able to change is freedom, and for
people who could be blowing up one minute and numb as a stump the next, the
ability to regulate these reactions is pure joy.

Recovery will bring back joy into your life. It will be mixed with pain because
this is real life, but learning to feel the pain lets it pass and the periods
between the pain will get longer and longer and better and better.

One final word, no matter what you did to survive, you do deserve to recover.
Many survivors feel guilty for surviving or for not doing enough or for
overreacting. During the recovery process, your feelings about this may change.
If you find that some of your guilt has a realistic basis, you can make amends
for your actions.-Patience Mason



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


BOOK REVIEWS:

PTSD: A Complete Treatment Guide by Aphrodite Matsakis, Ph D, New Harbinger,
1994, 39.95

If someone in your family has PTSD or you are a therapists who needs to learn
about it, a book like this is pure gold. The dedication of this book says,
"Hopefully... this book will help teach respect and compassion for trauma
survivors and their pain." The right attitude!

Dr. Matsakis' healing perspective on PTSD is unmarred by the need of so many
therapists to have 'perfect' clients who recover at their rate and to their
specifications. Her writing is based on years of experience in the Vet Center
program and dealing with child sexual abuse survivors. It shows!

PTSD: A Complete Treatment Guide contains Part I: An Overview of PTSD, and Part
II: The Therapeutic Process. There are also 28 extremely useful handouts for
therapists to use with PTSD clients. Warning Signs, the first handout, is worth
the price of the book.

Dr Matsakis says, "This book is not a crash course in PTSD Therapy, but rather a
preliminary overview..." It is a very thorough overview. She provides an
excellent list of further resources, too.

The continual reiteration of the ideas that client safety comes first, that the
therapist moves at the client's pace, and that therapists are teaching clients
skills to replace the ones that kept them alive makes this a safe book to
recommend. Dr Matsakis points out that recovery is a slow process. Every effort
is made in this book to show therapists how to treat clients with respect and
consideration and not provide them with any more of the secondary wounding
experiences which are so common in our culture and even in psychiatric practice,
like being misdiagnosed, or never being asked about traumatic events or being
told you should be over it..

Dr Matsakis discusses the difficulties of dealing with PTSD clients. She talks
about reframing symptoms for the client, for example, pointing out that self
mutilation can be a way of trying to tell what happened or of showing forbidden
feelings. She points out how difficult some of this work is and makes it clear
that not everyone can or should do it. I had trouble reading parts of the book,
and following her advice in Warning Signs, took a break. I also got some
fantastic insights into my own life while reading it. I believe in being an
educated consumer of health services, so if I or someone in my family were
traumatized, I would read everything I could on the subject. This is a good
place to start.

Highly Recommended!

The Way of the Journal, by Kathleen Adams, MA, Sidran Press [2328 West Joppa Rd,
Suite 15, Lutherville, MD, 21093, 1993 $15.95, (20% discount for 10 or more
copies).

I bought my copy of this book at the last meeting of the International Society
of Traumatic Stress Studies. The Sidran Foundation is a "nonprofit organization
devoted to education, advocacy, and research on behalf of people with
psychiatric disabilities..." including PTSD. It deserves our support!

A lot of recovering people use writing as a tool but find it depressing or
overwhelming. This book offers a place to practice new journaling techniques.
There is a ten day program, very carefully planned to lead from very structured
to unstructured writing. I found it extremely helpful and I've been journaling
for years.

Designed specifically for trauma survivors, this book is so full of wise
suggestions that I can't praise it too highly. It is addressed to both survivor
and therapist, and I (family member) also found it very useful. Ms Adams urges
the reader to pick the techniques that are helpful and not use the ones that
aren't. The book has an excellent opening section on How To Use This Workbook.
Since I've been in a 12 Step Program for 7 years and am not as rebellious as I
once was, I read it and followed most of the directions including filling out
the contract with myself.

Ms Adams has excellent suggestions for structuring a journal and using it as a
container for thoughts/feelings and energy.

Has a good section on additional resources.

Highly recommended!

Achilles In Vietnam by Jonathan Shay, MD, Atheneum, 1994, $20.00.

Jonathan Shay works with guys who have severe chronic PTSD many of whom survived
incredible trauma in Vietnam and the loss of all their friends. Surprisingly
enough they have a lot in common with Achilles, a hero of the Iliad.

Achilles goes berserk, literally, and avenges the death of his best friend by
killing prisoners and mutilating the body of Hector. What Dr. Shay points out is
that when people do these things, it is under the worst of circumstances, and
they suffer for it for the rest of their lives. Much of the focus of PTSD
studies has been on the effects of having bad things happen to you. It is rare
for anyone to study the effects of doing things in the heat of battle which are
hard to look back on. Those who have been exposed to abusive violence pay every
day for such experiences. This is a fascinating book and it expands our
understanding of combat related PTSD.

Conceptions we think of as universal, such as devaluing the enemy or trying to
keep a stiff upper lip when someone is killed are contrasted with the Greek
customs of honoring your enemy (otherwise where is the honor in fighting him?)
and communal mourning for the dead.

If you know a veteran who has been "exposed to abusive violence," in the
sanitary phrasing of mental health professionals, this book might bring some
insight into the devastation such experiences bring. Dr. Shay discusses the
healing that has happened for his clients as they tell their stories and are
heard.

Highly recommended.

From Survival to Recovery: Growing Up In An Alcoholic Home, Al-Anon Family
Groups, 1994, $12.00 plus $1.00 postage, Al-Anon World Service Office, 1600
Corporate Landing Parkway, Virginia Beach, VA23462. 1-800-344-2666.

Alcoholism and PTSD are intertwined. Whether one causes the other is immaterial
when the family members are trying to recover. Some adult children of alcoholics
are recovering from PTSD caused by the things people do when drunk, others from
the effects of growing up in a place where the rules are "don't talk, don't
think, and don't feel," just like the rules in a PTSD home.

This book is Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature--each twelve step group
produces it's own literature, and if you want to know about that program, read
the literature: what is said at meetings is opinion-- written by recovering
Adult Children of Alcoholics within Al-Anon.

"Because we have varied needs in Al-Anon we are encouraged to take what we can
use from each other's ideas and leave the rest behind. No two people will work
the program in exactly the same way...we encourage newcomers simply to come to
meetings and see for themselves ... [this] allows trust to build slowly and
allows identification with other members to develop naturally." (p. 77-78) That
is Al-anon. It is also recovery.

A surprising number of the sharings in this book are by incest and child abuse
survivors who have recovered in Al-Anon both with and without therapy. Many of
these survivors were unaware of the sexual abuse until they began to recover in
Al-Anon and stopped the other-centered obsessive caretaking and/or controlling
behaviors which, though socially acceptable, are so addictive, so crippling, and
so useful to numb pain. Others had no idea the violence they suffered inside the
family had affected them at all.

In this book, people tell in their own words how damaging trauma is to the
child. For therapists, memory experts and those who seek to develop the theory
of trauma, this book is an invaluable resource. For survivors of similar trauma,
it is a message of hope and healing. Al-Anon offers an inexpensive alternative
and/or supplement to therapy.

In some areas, there are no Al-Anon Adult Child focused groups. Some Al-Anon
oldtimers do not believe in ACOA issues. This is called denial. Their attitude
(probably based on fear) does not represent Al-Anon as a whole. This
book--written by a committee of Al-Anon adult children and sharing the
experience, strength, and hope of many members--represents Al-Anon as a whole
and demonstrates the healing Al-Anon can offer to trauma survivors who are
willing to work the steps of this program.

Highly reccommended!

To subscribe, send $12.00 for one year (six issues) to The Post-Traumatic
Gazette, P. O. Box 2757, High Springs, FL 32655. Subscribe online in the
Patience Press bookstore.

***

Return


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jen...In this post you asked for contact?  She is a member of this group.  On
the last post you made, it came in as "spam"  I will NOT let it be posted.  Hope
you understand this?
    John. [a moderator of the group.]


will someone who went through this please contact me off list, I have some very
spacific questions to ask you...preferably a female.

Thanks

~Jen

Hello Jen,

We work with individuals who have PTSD. it is not therapy it is a
training that resolves the issues of PTSD. We have had incredible
breakthroughs with Vietnam Vets, Iraqi Vets and more. We also work with
women who have been tramatized as well in civilian life. A recent
client's three children were murdered almost 6 years ago by their
father, a court ordered visit no less. As you can imagine she had
enormous guilt, grief and so much more. We have been working with her
and she is living life for the first time without constant overwhelming
grief, anger, sadness and more. The Vets we are working with are
expereincing for the first time in 40 years no more nightmares and
sleeping 8-9 hours instead of 3-4 a night. This work can be done over
the phone. we are based in Carlsbad Ca. www.vaporizeyourptsd.com
<http://www.vaporizeyourptsd.com>  Also we do not charge Military and
their spouses at all. it is totally free. I have read your posts and as
crazy as it sounds I know this work will help you. Give us a try you
have nothing to lose it is confidential and free. You only have your
PTSD to lose.
BarBara Whorley
BarBara@...
<mailto:BarBara@...>
949 933 0915
--- In combatvetswithptsd@yahoogroups.com, JENNY B <jenbradford0911@...>
wrote:
>
>
> hey everyone. I have been reading and posting here and their. It seems
like you all have a pretty good grasp of what is going on with
yourselves. I have PTSD from childhood BS that some scumbag decided to
give me along the way...who knows how he wound up...hopefully in
jail...also from a drunken mother who used to beat us any time she saw
us...but that is another issue altogether. I am 37 now and long away
from all that and have just BEGUN to unravel the majority of what makes
me PTSD. Like many of you I am chronic only because I had it all during
childhood and into young adulthood and never even knew. In the last 5
years or so I am really being challenged to change my heart about many
things...but again, that is another issue altogether.
>
> I am writing about my husband. He served in Afghanistan in Air force
spec ops and crossed trained onto the S.E.A.L. team, but quit early into
it. He sais it is because they gave him an unwinnable scenario. He felt
betrayed and actually 'cleared off the guys desk for him'...when he
found out why the situation was unwinnable. When asking him about the
war and maneuvers he and his team did, he always sais that nothing
'really bad' happened. At other times, he gives brief recollections of
scoutings where he witnessed fights, people being killed out in the
streets and for some reason, a lot of rapes. I guess it was a part if
how their military fought was through public raping? I know that through
witnessing all this and not being able to stop it must have caused
injury.
>
> FF about 17 years and he has all the classic symptoms. We have only
been married for 2 years, so I am just learning his triggers...which for
some reason, one very big one seems to be anytime he ever finds a
picture of a man in our home. I have male relatives and anytime he sees
a pic of my brothers or uncle he flips out and sais he is divorcing me.
Is combat PTSD different from traumatic childhood PTSD where marital
relationships are concerned? Why is it one of my husbands triggers to
feel threatened by other men? Specifically other men with me??? Aside
from getting rid of the pictures of my brothers and uncles and the 2 gay
male friends I had in HS...what else can I do??? Should I do any of
that? Is that the best course of action or does it just allow his
symptoms to dictate how we are going to live our lives??? in fear??? He
is currently in treatment with a GP who gives him something for
ADD...but he had a severe episode last weekend and ODed on his meds...so
I don't think what she was giving him was working. It is a huge fight to
get him to take meds at all. Do I let him crash and go psycho so he can
find himself on a lockdown ward for 30 days?? Do I tell the local
PD/rescue...He usually isn't violent, just really manic during these
episodes. Do I force the issue and make him stop denying his PTSD??? How
do I get an appointment with the VA for him if he isn't even willing to
think about the option that he does have this??? ARG! Any advice wouldbe
greatly accepted! he doesn't have a gun that I know of and does not
sleep with a weapon. Out PTSDs are feeding off each other like some
massive tumor!
>
> frustrated!
>
> thanks all
>
> ~Jen
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows 7: I wanted more reliable, now it's more reliable. Wow!
>
http://microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/default-ga.aspx?h=myidea?ocid=PID\
24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_myidea:102009
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sounds  like  you both  are  TRIGGER  to each  other!!!!!!!!!   Start with a
Marriage counselor!!!
Ya need  to know  why you are BOTH......dealing with  PTSD......but not for the
same reasons!!!  for sure!!
Sgt Rick
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: JENNY B
   To: ptsd
   Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:11 AM
   Subject: [Combat Vets with PTSD] wife needs advice..long



   hey everyone. I have been reading and posting here and their. It seems like
you all have a pretty good grasp of what is going on with yourselves. I have
PTSD from childhood BS that some scumbag decided to give me along the way...who
knows how he wound up...hopefully in jail...also from a drunken mother who used
to beat us any time she saw us...but that is another issue altogether. I am 37
now and long away from all that and have just BEGUN to unravel the majority of
what makes me PTSD. Like many of you I am chronic only because I had it all
during childhood and into young adulthood and never even knew. In the last 5
years or so I am really being challenged to change my heart about many
things...but again, that is another issue altogether.

   I am writing about my husband. He served in Afghanistan in Air force spec ops
and crossed trained onto the S.E.A.L. team, but quit early into it. He sais it
is because they gave him an unwinnable scenario. He felt betrayed and actually
'cleared off the guys desk for him'...when he found out why the situation was
unwinnable. When asking him about the war and maneuvers he and his team did, he
always sais that nothing 'really bad' happened. At other times, he gives brief
recollections of scoutings where he witnessed fights, people being killed out in
the streets and for some reason, a lot of rapes. I guess it was a part if how
their military fought was through public raping? I know that through witnessing
all this and not being able to stop it must have caused injury.

   FF about 17 years and he has all the classic symptoms. We have only been
married for 2 years, so I am just learning his triggers...which for some reason,
one very big one seems to be anytime he ever finds a picture of a man in our
home. I have male relatives and anytime he sees a pic of my brothers or uncle he
flips out and sais he is divorcing me. Is combat PTSD different from traumatic
childhood PTSD where marital relationships are concerned? Why is it one of my
husbands triggers to feel threatened by other men? Specifically other men with
me??? Aside from getting rid of the pictures of my brothers and uncles and the 2
gay male friends I had in HS...what else can I do??? Should I do any of that? Is
that the best course of action or does it just allow his symptoms to dictate how
we are going to live our lives??? in fear??? He is currently in treatment with a
GP who gives him something for ADD...but he had a severe episode last weekend
and ODed on his meds...so I don't think what she was giving him was working. It
is a huge fight to get him to take meds at all. Do I let him crash and go psycho
so he can find himself on a lockdown ward for 30 days?? Do I tell the local
PD/rescue...He usually isn't violent, just really manic during these episodes.
Do I force the issue and make him stop denying his PTSD??? How do I get an
appointment with the VA for him if he isn't even willing to think about the
option that he does have this??? ARG! Any advice wouldbe greatly accepted! he
doesn't have a gun that I know of and does not sleep with a weapon. Out PTSDs
are feeding off each other like some massive tumor!

   frustrated!

   thanks all

   ~Jen

   __________________________________________________________
   Windows 7: I wanted more reliable, now it's more reliable. Wow!
  
http://microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/default-ga.aspx?h=myidea?ocid=PID24727::T\
:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_myidea:102009

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

will someone who went through this please contact me off list, I have some very
spacific questions to ask you...preferably a female.

Thanks

~Jen

_________________________________________________________________
New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pc-scout/default.aspx?CBID=wl&ocid=PID24727::T:\
WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_pcscout:102009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hey everyone. I have been reading and posting here and their.  It seems like you
all have a pretty good grasp of what is going on with yourselves.  I have PTSD
from childhood BS that some scumbag decided to give me along the way...who knows
how he wound up...hopefully in jail...also from a drunken mother who used to
beat us any time she saw us...but that is another issue altogether.  I am 37 now
and long away from all that and have just BEGUN to unravel the majority of what
makes me PTSD.  Like many of you I am chronic only because I had it all during
childhood and into young adulthood and never even knew.  In the last 5 years or
so I am really being challenged to change my heart about many things...but
again, that is another issue altogether.

I am writing about my husband.  He served in Afghanistan in Air force spec ops
and crossed trained onto the S.E.A.L. team, but quit early into it.  He sais it
is because they gave him an unwinnable scenario.  He felt betrayed and actually
'cleared off the guys desk for him'...when he found out why the situation was
unwinnable.  When asking him about the war and maneuvers he and his team did, he
always sais that nothing 'really bad' happened.  At other times, he gives brief
recollections of scoutings where he witnessed fights, people being killed out in
the streets and for some reason, a lot of rapes.  I guess it was a part if how
their military fought was through public raping?  I know that through witnessing
all this and not being able to stop it must have caused injury.

FF about 17 years and he has all the classic symptoms.  We have only been
married for 2 years, so I am just learning his triggers...which for some reason,
one very big one seems to be anytime he ever finds a picture of a man in our
home.  I have male relatives and anytime he sees a pic of my brothers or uncle
he flips out and sais he is divorcing me.  Is combat PTSD different from
traumatic childhood PTSD where marital relationships are concerned?  Why is it
one of my husbands triggers to feel threatened by other men?  Specifically other
men with me???  Aside from getting rid of the pictures of my brothers and uncles
and the 2 gay male friends I had in HS...what else can I do???  Should I do any
of that?  Is that the best course of action or does it just allow his symptoms
to dictate how we are going to live our lives??? in fear???  He is currently in
treatment with a GP who gives him something for ADD...but he had a severe
episode last weekend and ODed on his meds...so I don't think what she was giving
him was working.  It is a huge fight to get him to take meds at all.  Do I let
him crash and go psycho so he can find himself on a lockdown ward for 30 days?? 
Do I tell the local PD/rescue...He usually isn't violent, just really manic
during these episodes.  Do I force the issue and make him stop denying his
PTSD???  How do I get an appointment with the VA for him if he isn't even
willing to think about the option that he does have this???  ARG!  Any advice
wouldbe greatly accepted!  he doesn't have a gun that I know of and does not
sleep with a weapon.  Out PTSDs are feeding off each other like some massive
tumor!

frustrated!

thanks all

~Jen

_________________________________________________________________
Windows 7: I wanted more reliable, now it's more reliable. Wow!
http://microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/default-ga.aspx?h=myidea?ocid=PID24727::T\
:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_myidea:102009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hello,
    if I can ask how did they insult you?  there are rules ect where they cannot
do that of course proving it is another thing w/ cya in place.  might just try
reserve staus to re up I have heard of some going that route than transfering to
active duty again.  If ur drawing va for ptsd be hard period but they should
talk cause they could quickly be in our shoes. If I could i'd go back but have
physical injuries has well ptsd to cope with.  My best to you.
 
 
    Wade

--- On Fri, 10/30/09, Tom <tbulanda01@...> wrote:


From: Tom <tbulanda01@...>
Subject: [Combat Vets with PTSD] question
To: combatvetswithptsd@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, October 30, 2009, 3:30 PM


 



Does anyone feel like the stigma of PTSD is to much? I am trying to get back
into the military and was insulted by a marine, army and coast guard recruiter.
Does anyone know how to get back in with PTSD, and not be insulted?



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Does anyone feel like the stigma of PTSD is to much?  I am trying to get back
into the military and was insulted by a marine, army and coast guard recruiter. 
Does anyone know how to get back in with PTSD, and not be insulted?

Keith
I know what ya mean  about  progress........but    it took me 30 years  to get 
started ..... on that progress so....
as  the  VA  says   we are   CHRONIC  PTSD....   cuz of  all the time that went
by  before  we even  started
to help  our selves...........sure was  scary  to find out  that  I spent  30
years  stuffing away  something
that I did not want to deal with   soooooooooooo   now   many  layers has to be 
pealed away  to get to
the core...... and  that still scares the shit out of me!!!!!!
I had a good reminder ofr myself  when I saw the movie   GRAN TORINO......  Get
off my lawn!!! is now
my  favorite  saying!!!!!!!    I am from OHIO and that movie sure did  flashback
me..
I know the feeling  about  RAIN....it is just starting  the  season here in
California!!!   does  freak me  also!!!
Sgt Rick
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Keith
   To: combatvetswithptsd@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 12:47 PM
   Subject: [Combat Vets with PTSD] Re: Bad Night


     Rick, I have a weekly group I go to. Some weeks I don't go, guess I need a
break, but go when I really need to. Yeah, I get alot of understanding & support
there and can talk freely there. The other Nam Vets with PTSD understand.
   I have been going there for 3 years now but still don't get too close to them.
I still can't get too close to people, wife & son an exception. If you don't get
close, you don't get hurt.
   Some of the other Nam Vets are having problems with all the rain so I don't
feel too bad. It isn't just me. So, I will just bear with it and get through it
the best I can.
   I met with my VA counselor & talked with him & told him how the rain has
aggravated my PTSD. But, I now have more understanding of PTSD & my PTSD and
have a support system & tools to try & cope with my aggravated PTSD.
   All you younger vets, seek treatment for your PTSD, learn about PTSD & your
specific PTSD, & you CAN make some progress in coping with it.
   I MADE SOME PROGRESS IN THE PAST 40+ YEARS!!! :)
   Love ya, brother.

   Keith

   --- In combatvetswithptsd@yahoogroups.com, "Rick" <eureka95503@...> wrote:
   >
   > Kieth
   > Are you going to GROUP????????????? I go to Group at the local VET CENTER
every week........
   > that seems to help me, and I am able to talk to other Vets!!!!!!!!!!!! VET
Center is a safe place for me!!
   > I call it my Bunker......
   > Rick
   > ----- Original Message -----
   > From: Keith
   > To: combatvetswithptsd@yahoogroups.com
   > Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 10:35 AM
   > Subject: [Combat Vets with PTSD] Re: Bad Night
   >
   >
   > Rick, I called another Nam Vet in my group and we just talked. I told him
about my symptoms & he was having the same symptoms caused by the rainy weather.
Helped alot.
   > You are right, bro. When I get like this, I need time to recognize what's
going on with me, figure out it's my PTSD, and then reach out to another Nam Vet
with PTSD (support group). I can figure it out faster now. For years, I wouldn't
recognize it for weeks or deny it was happening.
   > It's hard to explain because only another vet with PTSD fully understands.
   >
   > Keith
   >
   > --- In combatvetswithptsd@yahoogroups.com, "Rick" <eureka95503@> wrote:
   > >
   > > First of alll ............give them SPACE!!!!!!!!!!!! and time alone , to
process, and figure out the ... ANXIETY!!!!
   > > Sgt Rick
   > > ----- Original Message -----
   > > From: Dasha Bushmakin
   > > To: combatvetswithptsd@yahoogroups.com
   > > Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:30 AM
   > > Subject: Re: [Combat Vets with PTSD] Bad Night
   > >
   > >
   > > What are the best ways to support someone as a friend when they get into
these situations?
   > >
   > > Thanks,
   > > Dasha
   > >
   > > ________________________________
   > > From: Rick <eureka95503@>
   > > To: combatvetswithptsd@yahoogroups.com
   > > Sent: Tue, October 27, 2009 10:58:20 AM
   > > Subject: Re: [Combat Vets with PTSD] Bad Night
   > >
   > > You got it my friend...... ........ keep in the present!!!!! !!!
   > > Rick
   > > ----- Original Message -----
   > > From: Keith
   > > To: combatvetswithptsd@ yahoogroups. com
   > > Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 7:49 AM
   > > Subject: [Combat Vets with PTSD] Bad Night
   > >
   > > This October in St. Louis has been the wettest October since records have
been kept. Lots of rain is one of my triggers and last night was a bad one. I
couldn't get to sleep, intrusive memories of my actions in Nam kept coming to my
mind. In my mind, I was going to bed either in my hootch in Nam or on ambush in
Nam. I had to keep looking around my bedroom to keep myself in the present. I
finally had to take a Lorazapram to get to sleep.
   > > All October, I have had more anxiety, intrusive thoughts of Nam,
withdrawn, depressed, and not focused. I usually go through this in April/May
during our usual monsoon, er, rainy period. All the wetness, humidity, damp
smell, and gray skies are same same Nam monsoons. Make me beaucoup dinky dau. A
big number 10.
   > > I have a group this Thursday which I will go to and will call some local
Nam Vets I'm close to. I try to handle my PTSD by myself. But, guess this is one
of those times I need some help.
   > > Thanks for being here, bros.
   > > Love ya, brothers.
   > >
   > > Keith
   > >
   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   > >
   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   > >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Rick,  I have a weekly group I go to.  Some weeks I don't go, guess I need a
break, but go when I really need to.  Yeah, I get alot of understanding &
support there and can talk freely there.  The other Nam Vets with PTSD
understand.
   I have been going there for 3 years now but still don't get too close to them.
I still can't get too close to people, wife & son an exception.  If you don't
get close, you don't get hurt.
   Some of the other Nam Vets are having problems with all the rain so I don't
feel too bad.  It isn't just me.  So, I will just bear with it and get through
it the best I can.
   I met with my VA counselor & talked with him & told him how the rain has
aggravated my PTSD.  But, I now have more understanding of PTSD & my PTSD and
have a support system & tools to try & cope with my aggravated PTSD.
   All you younger vets, seek treatment for your PTSD, learn about PTSD & your
specific PTSD, & you CAN make some progress in coping with it.
   I MADE SOME PROGRESS IN THE PAST 40+ YEARS!!!   :)
   Love ya, brother.

Keith


--- In combatvetswithptsd@yahoogroups.com, "Rick" <eureka95503@...> wrote:
>
> Kieth
> Are you  going to   GROUP?????????????     I  go  to Group  at the local VET
CENTER  every week........
> that seems to help me,    and  I am able to  talk to other Vets!!!!!!!!!!!!   
VET  Center is a safe place  for me!!
> I call it  my  Bunker......
> Rick
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Keith
>   To: combatvetswithptsd@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 10:35 AM
>   Subject: [Combat Vets with PTSD] Re: Bad Night
>
>
>     Rick, I called another Nam Vet in my group and we just talked. I told him
about my symptoms & he was having the same symptoms caused by the rainy weather.
Helped alot.
>   You are right, bro. When I get like this, I need time to recognize what's
going on with me, figure out it's my PTSD, and then reach out to another Nam Vet
with PTSD (support group). I can figure it out faster now. For years, I wouldn't
recognize it for weeks or deny it was happening.
>   It's hard to explain because only another vet with PTSD fully understands.
>
>   Keith
>
>   --- In combatvetswithptsd@yahoogroups.com, "Rick" <eureka95503@> wrote:
>   >
>   > First of alll ............give them SPACE!!!!!!!!!!!! and time alone , to
process, and figure out the ... ANXIETY!!!!
>   > Sgt Rick
>   > ----- Original Message -----
>   > From: Dasha Bushmakin
>   > To: combatvetswithptsd@yahoogroups.com
>   > Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:30 AM
>   > Subject: Re: [Combat Vets with PTSD] Bad Night
>   >
>   >
>   > What are the best ways to support someone as a friend when they get into
these situations?
>   >
>   > Thanks,
>   > Dasha
>   >
>   > ________________________________
>   > From: Rick <eureka95503@>
>   > To: combatvetswithptsd@yahoogroups.com
>   > Sent: Tue, October 27, 2009 10:58:20 AM
>   > Subject: Re: [Combat Vets with PTSD] Bad Night
>   >
>   > You got it my friend...... ........ keep in the present!!!!! !!!
>   > Rick
>   > ----- Original Message -----
>   > From: Keith
>   > To: combatvetswithptsd@ yahoogroups. com
>   > Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 7:49 AM
>   > Subject: [Combat Vets with PTSD] Bad Night
>   >
>   > This October in St. Louis has been the wettest October since records have
been kept. Lots of rain is one of my triggers and last night was a bad one. I
couldn't get to sleep, intrusive memories of my actions in Nam kept coming to my
mind. In my mind, I was going to bed either in my hootch in Nam or on ambush in
Nam. I had to keep looking around my bedroom to keep myself in the present. I
finally had to take a Lorazapram to get to sleep.
>   > All October, I have had more anxiety, intrusive thoughts of Nam,
withdrawn, depressed, and not focused. I usually go through this in April/May
during our usual monsoon, er, rainy period. All the wetness, humidity, damp
smell, and gray skies are same same Nam monsoons. Make me beaucoup dinky dau. A
big number 10.
>   > I have a group this Thursday which I will go to and will call some local
Nam Vets I'm close to. I try to handle my PTSD by myself. But, guess this is one
of those times I need some help.
>   > Thanks for being here, bros.
>   > Love ya, brothers.
>   >
>   > Keith
>   >
>   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   >
>   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Is their some sort of addictive relationship between a person suffering PTSD and
their episodes.  Seems as if my husband has them on a regular interval basis. 
Medication helps to an extent, but if he has gone more than a month without an
episode, it as if he 'jones' for one by picking fights, becoming combative over
things he wasn't before and looking for excuses to go off.  He gets manic and
will even induce a crisis situation in order to have something to 'push'
against.  This last time he ODed on his meds and didn't sleep for 3 days
straight.  Out of nowhere I though.  He gave no indication of triggers, but just
kept getting more and more adgetated until he was full tilt into it.  I know the
episode starts earlier in his own head...or maybe it is one continual episode
that has external flair ups?

(My PTSD runs much differently.  I don't seek out offenses/offenders so I can
stay away from them...as it seems he does.  I just hold monster grudges that
last years and years).

If this is the case, than that means that this is his 'normal'...how in the
world does anyone ever even begin to recongnize they need a change or
acknowledge they have a problem.  If he is doing just enough to survive
consequences of his mania...then we get no progress at all....

confused!

~Jen

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]