Yes, I agree with you, most Catholic doctors don't know much about NFP.
When I ask questions, some of them immediately refer me to my instructors
and don't even attempt to answer.  However, as I stated in a previous post,
one of these doctors has a degree/certificate from the JPII Institute
specifically for NFP.  She is known as the doctor to go to when your chart
is looking a little wacky.

I have this month's chart in a Couple to Couple league Excel spreadsheet
(not the easiest thing to read as it runs vertically).  I am attaching it,
if it doesn't work, I will email it to you directly.

Thanks so much for your help!



On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Jennifer Williams <JenW731@...> wrote:

>
>
> It's very difficult to answer in terms of generalities. Could you post your
> chart and let us have a look? If you have a few months worth (from your
> "clockwork" cycles until now) that would be even better.
>
> If I can ask, are you sure that your Catholic doctor knows about NFP? I
> know plenty of Catholic doctors who couldn't read an NFP chart for
> anything. I will cross my fingers that you have a great doctor who can give
> you some good help.
>
> Jennifer
>
> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 3:37 PM, saramolino
<sara.molino@...<sara.molino%40gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Just wanted to say thank you to Jim & Bekah. I thought something was
> wrong,
> > and you two convinced me it is time to call the doctor. I am extremely
> > fortunate to have access to a Catholic practice and one of the doctors
> has
> > some certificate/degree (?) from the JPII institute so I am going to ask
> for
> > her.
> >
> > My temperature has been up for the last four days, which would lead me to
> > believe that I am in Phase III, but my CM was tacky for a day (first day
> of
> > temp rise) and then went back to slippery. I know you can have split peak
> > days (or something like that), but I think this is all a sign that
> something
> > has gone awry.
> >
> > I got pregnant with no effort when I had my daughter. Any idea what would
> > have caused my cycles do suddenly go haywire? Like I said in my first
> post,
> > up until September, when we started trying to conceive, my cycles were
> like
> > clockwork.
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



--
Looking for free activities for the family?
http://www.examiner.com/x-17436-Arlington-StayatHome-Moms-Examiner


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It's very difficult to answer in terms of generalities.  Could you post your
chart and let us have a look?  If you have a few months worth (from your
"clockwork" cycles until now) that would be even better.

If I can ask, are you sure that your Catholic doctor knows about NFP?  I
know plenty of Catholic doctors who couldn't read an NFP chart for
anything.  I will cross my fingers that you have a great doctor who can give
you some good help.

Jennifer

On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 3:37 PM, saramolino <sara.molino@...> wrote:

>
>
> Just wanted to say thank you to Jim & Bekah. I thought something was wrong,
> and you two convinced me it is time to call the doctor. I am extremely
> fortunate to have access to a Catholic practice and one of the doctors has
> some certificate/degree (?) from the JPII institute so I am going to ask for
> her.
>
> My temperature has been up for the last four days, which would lead me to
> believe that I am in Phase III, but my CM was tacky for a day (first day of
> temp rise) and then went back to slippery. I know you can have split peak
> days (or something like that), but I think this is all a sign that something
> has gone awry.
>
> I got pregnant with no effort when I had my daughter. Any idea what would
> have caused my cycles do suddenly go haywire? Like I said in my first post,
> up until September, when we started trying to conceive, my cycles were like
> clockwork.
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>I got pregnant with no effort when I had my daughter. Any idea what would
have caused my >cycles do suddenly go haywire? Like I said in my first post,
up until September, when we >started trying to conceive, my cycles were like
clockwork.


TTC can be stressful in itself. Or perhaps you can identify some other
change in your lifestyle or nutrition.

You are VERY lucky if you have a Dr. who actually knows this stuff.


jim

--
Jim & Mary Margaret Van Damme
Couple to Couple League-Central New York
http://nfp.freehostia.com/   <== Big NFP site
Our real address is vandamme@...!
-------------------------------------------------------------


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Just wanted to say thank you to Jim & Bekah.  I thought something was wrong, and
you two convinced me it is time to call the doctor.  I am extremely fortunate to
have access to a Catholic practice and one of the doctors has some
certificate/degree (?) from the JPII institute so I am going to ask for her.

My temperature has been up for the last four days, which would lead me to
believe that I am in Phase III, but my CM was tacky for a day (first day of temp
rise) and then went back to slippery.  I know you can have split peak days (or
something like that), but I think this is all a sign that something has gone
awry.

I got pregnant with no effort when I had my daughter.  Any idea what would have
caused my cycles do suddenly go haywire?  Like I said in my first post, up until
September, when we started trying to conceive, my cycles were like clockwork.

A long phase 2 and a short luteal phase is "normal" only when you're
nursing,and should resolve with time, not get worse. The cramping might
respond to self-treatment. Try reading fertility cycles and Nutrition to see
if you can straighten yourself out. Then talk with a NFP teacher, along with
your charts. The short luteal phase will prevent the continuation of
pregnancy.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 2:50 PM, saramolino <sara.molino@...> wrote:

> My cycles were about 31 days (often a few days longer) and have been
> getting about a day shorter with each cycle. Last month my cycle was 27
> days. However, I seem to ovulate around the same time – anywhere from Day
> 18-22. Does that sound normal?





Jim
--
Jim & Mary Margaret Van Damme
Couple to Couple League-Central New York
http://nfp.freehostia.com/   <== Big NFP site
Our real address is vandamme@...!
-------------------------------------------------------------


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Luteal phase less than 10 days can signify a problem which might make
conception difficult or impossible.  I've heard good things about using
Vitex (Chaste Tree Berry) to normalize hormones.  Also, supplementing
progesterone can help women with luteal phase issues maintain a pregnancy.
It sounds to me like your doctor should be running some tests on your
hormonal levels throughout your cycle to identify if/where the problem
lies.

--
Bekah in WI <><
AAMI Student Midwife #1885, Doula
appletreewebdesigns.com
newbirthcs.com
Learn about Home Birth: morebabiespreferhomebirth.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My cycles were about 31 days (often a few days longer) and have been getting
about a day shorter with each cycle.  Last month my cycle was 27 days.  However,
I seem to ovulate around the same time – anywhere from Day 18-22.  Does that
sound normal?  I would assume if your cycle gets shorter, then ovulation would
move too.

I am on Day 21.  Last night and this morning I had sticky CM.  However, I just
had stretchy CM.  What gives?

Is a short luteal phase a sign that something is wrong?  How short is too short
(e.g., see a doctor)?

Usually around Day 19, when I (at least used to) ovulate I have terrible cramps;
almost the same intensity as when I menstruate.  Is that normal?  It often lasts
for about 24 hours, maybe even 36.  The intensity comes and goes.

I know I keep writing "normal" and every woman's cycle is different.  I am just
concerned because we are trying to conceive and it isn't happening, so I am
looking for something that might be preventing it.

-----Forwarded Message-----

>Dear All,

>Today in the Washington Post there was a very emotional article advocating
coverage of abortion on demand by the Federal Health Benefits plan.  It cited
the case of a woman carrying an anecephalic child who had to pay for her own
abortion.  Her doctor said that the pregnancy threatened her life, but Blue
Cross said the opposite.  Abortion advocates are trying to use this tragic
situation to boost abortion funding.  See link to the article below:
>
> www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/30/AR2009113004065.html
>
>(Sorry if you have to cut and paste- or you can go to www.washingtonpost.com
and search for "Federal Employees Health Benefits Program abortion".) The
article is:
>
>"A woman who had little choice enlightens health-care debate"
>By Joe Davidson
>Tuesday, December 1, 2009
>
>

  Harry Truman once quipped, "I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and
they think its hell."
ahuntley@...

I'm on that forum (the main page) and it really is huge, and VERY active. A
little overwhelming at first, actually. But it is a good reference to give
people because for any imaginable situation there's someone who's already
been there, and usually several someone's.

Kate

On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Shawna Van Uden <shawnapage@...>wrote:

>
> Got it!
>
> The private forum has 70 members, the stats for the main forum are:
>
> Member  15118
> Guest   19700
> Total   34818
>
> In the last 3 days, there have been 6, 011 messages by 344 separate
> posters.
>
>
> Shawna
>
>
>
>
> " Dear young people, in such a world is it hard to believe? Yes! It is
> hard. There is no need to hide it. It is hard, but with the help of grace it
> can be done." Pope John Paul II, World Youth Day 2000 in Rome
>
>
>
>
> To: cinnfp@yahoogroups.com
> From: erin@...
> Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 08:29:53 -0700
> Subject: RE: NFP and serious diagnoses, was RE: [cinnfp] Convincing NFP
> non-users?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       Just curious Shawna, how many people are participating in that forum?
>
> --Erin
>
>
>
> > I've been part of an NFP Discussion forum for years now and they created
> a private sub-forum for people in exactly those situations; struggling with
> prolonged abstinence or very grave reasons not to become pregnant again.
>  Another option for support in this area:
>
> > http://forums.delphiforums.com/nfptalk/?
>
> >
>
> > Shawna
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Ready. Set. Get a great deal on Windows 7. See fantastic deals on Windows 7
> now
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691818
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Welcome to the CINNFP natural family planning mailing list.  By joining this
group, you implicitly agree to abide by the discussion rules described below.
Please read them in full.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This document is adapted from the general rules for mailing lists originally
published by the Catholic Information Network (CIN) at http://www.cin.org .
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


CINNFP is a discussion group on the topic of Natural Family Planning.  It is a
group with a Catholic perspective, yet it is open to the general public.

---------------------
NFP Discussion Rules:
---------------------

This list is meant for the discussion of natural family planning (NFP).  NFP is
a set of methods incorporating awareness of fertility signals and the choice to
periodically or occasionally abstain from sexual intercourse as a means of
avoiding or achieving pregnancy.

Obviously, discussion of all methods of natural family planning that are
sanctioned by the Roman Catholic Church is on-topic.  This includes theological,
historical, and practical discussion.  *Although pros and cons exist for every
method, no "bashing" of licit methods of NFP is allowed.*  Other methods of
birth control may be discussed, but may not be promoted, on list.  It is
acknowledged that many subscribers may be users of the Fertility Awareness
Method (FAM) which combines fertility awareness with barrier methods, and they
may seek practical help in fertility awareness here.  Posting of entire charts
is not only allowed, but encouraged.   Also on-topic:  marriage and sexuality
from a Catholic perspective, especially as it relates to NFP; pregnancy,
breastfeeding, and child-rearing, especially as it relates to lactational
amenorrhea and natural family planning; and other topics at the moderators'
discretion.

There is a separate list available for members who wish to discuss off-topic
matters, and which has fewer rules of discussion.  This list, cinnfp-ot, is also
hosted at yahoogroups.

----------------------
Basic Discussion Rules
----------------------

PLEASE NOTE that some of the rules below are unusual ones necessary to safeguard
the Catholic identity of this list.  Others are standard "netiquette."

1. NO ADVERTISING!  Advertisements for goods or services, free offers, or
solicitations for funds (even for charitable causes) are not permitted on the
lists. Some kinds of announcements are appropriate and may refer to a web page
or email address for further information, but such announcements should not
include prices. Other posts with the sole purpose of promoting some other web
page, mail list, organization, etc. are not allowed.  Advertising in a taglines
added by your ISP is tolerated if it is not offensive.

2.  IMPORTANT PRIVACY INFORMATION:  This mail list is public and archived. 
Everything you post to this group is available to Google.  If you are concerned
about your personal information being displayed to Google, do not include
personal information in your e-mail messages.  In particular, you may wish to
set your e-mail program so that it does not display your full name in the
headers or text of your message.  Or you may find it more convenient to post
with an anonymously-named yahoo account.  Be aware that your disclosed personal
information is also available to every subscriber and to every third party to
whom any subscriber provides his or her Yahoo username and password.

3.  No flames.  This means no disparagement of other listmembers or others,
including individual priests, bishops, the Holy Father, and all other
individuals, including public figures.

4.  No blasphemy.  This means no disrespect for the religious beliefs of
Catholics and those of other faith communities.

5.  No profanity, threats, or messages advocating violence or illegal activities
permitted.

6.  Private email messages may not be reposted without permission from the
author.

7.  Harassment of list members on or off list is not tolerated; contact the
moderator *privately* to request action.

8.  Locutions, visionary messages, prophecy, interpretations of dreams are not
permitted unless such have been approved by the seer's local bishop.

7.  All clergy or others using ecclesial titles are asked to identify their
jurisdictions (denomination and location) to the list for the benefit of all
subscribers.

8.  Promotion of heresy is not allowed.  This does not mean that non-Catholics
are not permitted to acknowledge, explain, or discuss their own beliefs; but it
does mean that heresies are not permitted to be presented as if they are in
accord with Catholic belief.

9.  Taglines may be four lines maximum in length.  URL's are permitted providing
the URL target does not denigrate the Catholic Church. Taglines added by your
ISP are not counted in the four-line limit.

10.  No attachments allowed. Set your mail program to text only.   No automatic
reply or return-receipt requests permitted.   No excessive quoting.

11.  Providing your yahoo username and password to a third party with intention
to allow the third party to access your yahoo groups is prohibited and will upon
discovery result in your being banned from the group.

Got it!

The private forum has 70 members, the stats for the main forum are:

Member 15118
Guest 19700
Total 34818

In the last 3 days, there have been 6, 011 messages by 344 separate posters.


Shawna




" Dear young people, in such a world is it hard to believe? Yes! It is hard.
There is no need to hide it. It is hard, but with the help of grace it can be
done." Pope John Paul II, World Youth Day 2000 in Rome




To: cinnfp@yahoogroups.com
From: erin@...
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 08:29:53 -0700
Subject: RE: NFP and serious diagnoses, was RE: [cinnfp] Convincing NFP
non-users?




























       Just curious Shawna, how many people are participating in that forum?

--Erin



> I've been part of an NFP Discussion forum for years now and they created a
private sub-forum for people in exactly those situations; struggling with
prolonged abstinence or very grave reasons not to become pregnant again. 
Another option for support in this area:

> http://forums.delphiforums.com/nfptalk/?

>

> Shawna


















_________________________________________________________________
Ready. Set. Get a great deal on Windows 7. See fantastic deals on Windows 7 now
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691818

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The private one? I'm not sure, but I think a decent amount because the main
forum is gigantic.  I'll see if I can find that out from one of the moderators.


Shawna





" Dear young people, in such a world is it hard to believe? Yes! It is hard.
There is no need to hide it. It is hard, but with the help of grace it can be
done." Pope John Paul II, World Youth Day 2000 in Rome




To: cinnfp@yahoogroups.com
From: erin@...
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 08:29:53 -0700
Subject: RE: NFP and serious diagnoses, was RE: [cinnfp] Convincing NFP
non-users?




























       Just curious Shawna, how many people are participating in that forum?

--Erin



> I've been part of an NFP Discussion forum for years now and they created a
private sub-forum for people in exactly those situations; struggling with
prolonged abstinence or very grave reasons not to become pregnant again. 
Another option for support in this area:

> http://forums.delphiforums.com/nfptalk/?

>

> Shawna


















_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Friends get your Flickr, Yelp, and Digg updates when they e-mail
you.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691817

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Just curious Shawna, how many people are participating in that forum?
--Erin


> I've been part of an NFP Discussion forum for years now and they created a
private sub-forum for people in exactly those situations; struggling with
prolonged abstinence or very grave reasons not to become pregnant again. 
Another option for support in this area:
> http://forums.delphiforums.com/nfptalk/?
>
> Shawna

If this person is only nominally Catholic, then convincing her on the
birth control issue is going to be almost impossible, especially since
she feels she is in a life or death situation.

First, how close are you to her?  Is this someone you know well, or
are only a bit acquainted with her?  If you don't know her well, then
I wouldn't broach such a personal subject.  Instead, try to befriend
her.  It sounds as if she had a traumatizing experience, and first
babies are overwhelming even without a medical crisis.  She could
probably really use a friend right now.

Once you are to the point where you know her well enough to discuss
personal issues, then I would introduce the topic of faith.  Mention
how comforting reading the Scriptures are.  Invite her adoration with
you.  When she is beginning to see how much she can lean on God in his
Church during this time of trial, then that is when she might be open
to the healing graces of confession, and, dare we hope, the wisdom of
the Church on childbearing.

I might approach the topic in a practical matter.  Suggest she get a
second or third opinion by scheduling her annual exam with different
doctors.  Mention that one of the appealing aspects of NFP is that you
can control the effectiveness rate.  Planned Parenthood says that 50%
of all pregnancies occur while using a form of birth control.
Probably everyone knows someone who got pregnant on the Pill.  People
who are using chemical birth control and experience an unplanned
pregnancy feel betrayed, because they felt they were guaranteed to not
have a pregnancy, despite the fact that they are not advertised to
have a 100% effectiveness rate.  When I use NFP, I know that if it
fails, it is likely because of how I used it.  For serious reasons, we
can be very conservative and feel more in control of the
effectiveness.

Sterilization is very tempting in that sort of situation.  But there
are health risks which she might have not considered of that, as well,
for both men and women.  Sterilization is also not completely
effective.  One of my neighbors told me that she was not planning on
having any children, but got pregnant on the pill.  She scheduled a
tubal after that birth, and became pregnant despite the tubal.  She
got a second tubal after the birth of her second child, which was a
year ago now.  So, there are no guarantees, unless they want to have
total abstinence.

Kelly

I've been part of an NFP Discussion forum for years now and they created a
private sub-forum for people in exactly those situations; struggling with
prolonged abstinence or very grave reasons not to become pregnant again. 
Another option for support in this area:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/nfptalk/?

Shawna




" Dear young people, in such a world is it hard to believe? Yes! It is hard.
There is no need to hide it. It is hard, but with the help of grace it can be
done." Pope John Paul II, World Youth Day 2000 in Rome




To: cinnfp@yahoogroups.com
From: erin@...
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 08:20:36 -0700
Subject: NFP and serious diagnoses, was RE: [cinnfp] Convincing NFP non-users?




























       Maybe a Facebook group would be in order, if nothing else!



I don't think you really would have to be facing death, just a serious

conviction that pregnancy is "not an option" coupled with a belief

that artificial contraception/sterilization is also "not an option."

I mean, we had 6 months of abstinence once postpartum simply

because we felt really strongly that we didn't want to have children

so close together, and because I had signs of returning fertility

that took a while to turn into cycles.



It's not the same as a grave

diagnosis, because we *could* have chosen to take a chance on

getting pregnant, but we really didn't want to.  And also we knew

the condition would be temporary, because sooner or later either

my cycles would come back or else time would go by and we would

be willing to have another pregnancy.  So I'm not sure how credible

that is.   I can, though, attest that 6 months of abstinence did not

kill us or destroy our marriage.  It helped a lot that we both agreed

about it.



Still, though, I have a hard time blaming anyone who resorts to

contraception in that circumstance if they have not had a chance

to communicate with any real people who have been in a similar

situation and have taken the route of obedience to Church

teachings.  It's not that it's actually heroic to do so -- it's just

obedience -- but it sure SEEMS heroic when only a few people

insist that obedience is necessary, and there are even some who

would call disobedience obedience, e.g. confessors who would

go so far as to pretend to be able to dispense from it.



Erin



> -------- Original Message --------

> Subject: Re: [cinnfp] Convincing NFP non-users?

> From: Jennifer Williams <JenW731@...>

> Date: Tue, December 01, 2009 7:42 am

> To: cinnfp@yahoogroups.com

>

>

> Erin, you are exactly right.  There should be some sort of national support

> network.  Of course, I have to wonder if the national population for this

> group is even out of the single digits...  My guess would be most couples

> facing this situation immediately turn to sterilization.

>

> Jennifer

>

> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 8:11 AM, <erin@...> wrote:

>

> >

> > Sometimes I think there should be a national organization of NFP users

> > facing serious "we can't get pregnant" diagnoses... because, really, I'm

> > not

> > sure that  people who HAVEN'T faced the grave-diagnosis situation are going

> > to be

> > all that credible to someone who's living with one.

> >

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you’re up to on
Facebook.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691816

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Maybe a Facebook group would be in order, if nothing else!

I don't think you really would have to be facing death, just a serious
conviction that pregnancy is "not an option" coupled with a belief
that artificial contraception/sterilization is also "not an option."
I mean, we had 6 months of abstinence once postpartum simply
because we felt really strongly that we didn't want to have children
so close together, and because I had signs of returning fertility
that took a while to turn into cycles.

  It's not the same as a grave
diagnosis, because we *could* have chosen to take a chance on
getting pregnant, but we really didn't want to.  And also we knew
the condition would be temporary, because sooner or later either
my cycles would come back or else time would go by and we would
be willing to have another pregnancy.  So I'm not sure how credible
that is.   I can, though, attest that 6 months of abstinence did not
kill us or destroy our marriage.  It helped a lot that we both agreed
about it.

Still, though, I have a hard time blaming anyone who resorts to
contraception in that circumstance if they have not had a chance
to communicate with any real people who have been in a similar
situation and have taken the route of obedience to Church
teachings.  It's not that it's actually heroic to do so -- it's just
obedience -- but it sure SEEMS heroic when only a few people
insist that obedience is necessary, and there are even some who
would call disobedience obedience, e.g. confessors who would
go so far as to pretend to be able to dispense from it.

Erin


> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [cinnfp] Convincing NFP non-users?
> From: Jennifer Williams <JenW731@...>
> Date: Tue, December 01, 2009 7:42 am
> To: cinnfp@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Erin, you are exactly right.  There should be some sort of national support
> network.  Of course, I have to wonder if the national population for this
> group is even out of the single digits...  My guess would be most couples
> facing this situation immediately turn to sterilization.
>
> Jennifer
>
> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 8:11 AM, <erin@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Sometimes I think there should be a national organization of NFP users
> > facing serious "we can't get pregnant" diagnoses... because, really, I'm
> > not
> > sure that  people who HAVEN'T faced the grave-diagnosis situation are going
> > to be
> > all that credible to someone who's living with one.
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Erin, you are exactly right.  There should be some sort of national support
network.  Of course, I have to wonder if the national population for this
group is even out of the single digits...  My guess would be most couples
facing this situation immediately turn to sterilization.

Jennifer

On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 8:11 AM, <erin@...> wrote:

>
> Sometimes I think there should be a national organization of NFP users
> facing serious "we can't get pregnant" diagnoses... because, really, I'm
> not
> sure that  people who HAVEN'T faced the grave-diagnosis situation are going
> to be
> all that credible to someone who's living with one.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heather:

> > How do you argue the benefits of NFP (and it being the only morally
> > acceptable way of preventing/spacing births) to somebody who will die if NFP
> > were to fail?

Jennifer answered:

> I admire you for wanting to change her heart on this.  Right now, I think
> all you can do is pray for her and let her know that if/when she decides to
> move away from the implant that you would love to talk to her about NFP and
> put her in touch with a teacher.

I agree with Jennifer.   To someone in that situation, the biggest
problem may be
that it often seems that orthodox teachers of the faith "don't care
about her
situation."

Sometimes I think there should be a national organization of NFP users
facing
serious "we can't get pregnant" diagnoses...  because, really, I'm not
sure that
people who HAVEN'T faced the grave-diagnosis situation are going to be
all
that credible to someone who's living with one.  For one thing, it
radically
changes how you would practice NFP because of how very conservative you
would have to be, unless maybe you were fortunate to have
textbook-perfect
cycles.

Erin

One big thing that she needs to understand is that there is NO method of
contraception that is 100% effective, so she is not getting something "less" if
she uses NFP.  Even surgical sterilization is not 100% effective.  Contraception
can fail, too.  The biggest myth out there is that you are "safe" if you are
contracepting.  The truth is, you are subjecting yourself to many medical side
effects when you contracept, many of which may be just as dangerous as the
condition that makes you need to avoid pregnancy, and may be even more dangerous
due to your pre-existing condition.  It amazes me that healthcare providers
rarely if ever take this into consideration when advising hormonal
contraceptives.

Pam, RN in El Paso



--- In cinnfp@yahoogroups.com, "reginaandcupsmom" <reginaandcupsmom@...> wrote:
>
>
>   I have a cousin who is Catholic, but not a strong one, she currently has one
child who is about 18 months old. She has  series of very serious medical issues
and her doctors have advised her that another pregnancy will kill both her and
the baby. She is now on birth control (the implant in the arm) and no amount of
arguing can convince her this is not the way to go.
>
>   How do you argue the benefits of NFP (and it being the only morally
acceptable way of preventing/spacing births) to somebody who will die if NFP
were to fail?
>
>   Thanks!
>
> Heather
>

Well, my first question would be whether or not her medical issues are
really serious enough to kill her in a subsequent pregnancy.  I say that
because in my experience, doctors are very, very conservative and no amount
of risk is worth it for them when it comes to future pregnancies.  However,
there may be other doctors who can better prepare her body for pregnancy or
who know better ways to manage pregnancy so that her life is not in grave
danger.  I would hope that in this case that she has had second & third
opinions.  What a tragic situation for her and her husband.

I really cannot fathom how scary it would be to be told that a pregnancy
would kill me.  If this is something she has just recently learned, then
maybe she needs some time before she can think about other alternatives to
the implant.  I certainly have compassion for her.  If I were not an NFP
user I would think the temptation and "ease" of chemical contraception would
be too difficult to pass by in favor of the unknown and less certain.

I admire you for wanting to change her heart on this.  Right now, I think
all you can do is pray for her and let her know that if/when she decides to
move away from the implant that you would love to talk to her about NFP and
put her in touch with a teacher.

Jennifer



On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:52 PM, reginaandcupsmom <
reginaandcupsmom@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> I have a cousin who is Catholic, but not a strong one, she currently has
> one child who is about 18 months old. She has series of very serious medical
> issues and her doctors have advised her that another pregnancy will kill
> both her and the baby. She is now on birth control (the implant in the arm)
> and no amount of arguing can convince her this is not the way to go.
>
> How do you argue the benefits of NFP (and it being the only morally
> acceptable way of preventing/spacing births) to somebody who will die if NFP
> were to fail?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Heather
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have a cousin who is Catholic, but not a strong one, she currently has one
child who is about 18 months old. She has  series of very serious medical issues
and her doctors have advised her that another pregnancy will kill both her and
the baby. She is now on birth control (the implant in the arm) and no amount of
arguing can convince her this is not the way to go.

   How do you argue the benefits of NFP (and it being the only morally acceptable
way of preventing/spacing births) to somebody who will die if NFP were to fail?

   Thanks!

Heather

Our group does not allow attachments, I believe.  If you want, you can send
me the screen shot off list at JenW731@... and I can take a look.

What day are you on right now in your cycle?  I think the problem we are
having is when you say you are 10 days away from Phase 3.  If you are using
a sympto-thermal method (temps & mucus) then phase 3 begins with the third
day of temperature rise cross-checked by 3 days of mucus dry-up.  For
example, if your temperature rise begins on day 14 and you have 3
consecutive temperatures at or above the high temperature level, then Phase
3 would begin on the evening of Day 17.  Phase 3 refers to the infertile
period after ovulation is finished.  I'm not sure why if you already had
peak day and a temperature rise you would still be 10 days from phase 3.

Also, Peak day is the last day of fertile mucus.  It doesn't have anything
to do with temperatures.  I think you may have that term a little confused
since you said you had 3 high temps for your peak.  I don't mean to be
picky, I just want to make sure we are using the correct terms so we can
understand your question correctly.

In general, if a woman has a tri-phase cycle, or a cycle where her
temperatures go up due to implantation, the implantation rise will happen
about 6-9 days after your first day of temperature rise.  So, for example,
if your first day of temperature rise was day 14, then you might see another
temperature rise around day 20-23.  However, not every woman will see a
tri-phase chart due to pregnancy.

I am interested in seeing your chart to make sure I am answering your
question correctly.  I hope my answers thus far have helped.

Jennifer

On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 2:25 AM, Angie Estrada <xangiemyra@...> wrote:

>
>
> Sorry about the chart, I tried.  I was just wondering if the 3 high temps
> in a row was a sign that conception occurred.  In all my charts for the last
> 8 months or so I have not had 3 high temps in a row for my peak.
>
> --- On Fri, 11/13/09, Shawna Van Uden
<shawnapage@...<shawnapage%40hotmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> From: Shawna Van Uden <shawnapage@... <shawnapage%40hotmail.com>>
> Subject: RE: [cinnfp] High Temp
> To: cinnfp@yahoogroups.com <cinnfp%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 11:21 PM
>
>
> Hm, I was unable to see a chart.  Anyway, 3 high temps can indicate that
> ovulation has occurred.  If any cervical mucus was present during the 5-7
> days before the higher temps and you had sex during that time, then yes -
> you could have conceived.
>
> Does that answer your question?
>
> Shawna
>
> " Dear young people, in such a world is it hard to believe? Yes! It is
> hard.. There is no need to hide it. It is hard, but with the help of grace
> it can be done." Pope John Paul II, World Youth Day 2000 in Rome
>
> To: cinnfp@yahoogroups.com <cinnfp%40yahoogroups.com>
> From: xangiemyra@... <xangiemyra%40yahoo.com>
> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 23:14:50 -0800
> Subject: RE: [cinnfp] High Temp
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       Shawna,
>
> The best I could do was attach it with a screen shot.  I am just wondering
> if the high temp for 3 days could mean that I conceived. Thanks, Angela
>
> --- On Fri, 11/13/09, Shawna Van Uden
<shawnapage@...<shawnapage%40hotmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> From: Shawna Van Uden <shawnapage@... <shawnapage%40hotmail.com>>
>
> Subject: RE: [cinnfp] High Temp
>
> To: cinnfp@yahoogroups.com <cinnfp%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 10:25 PM
>
> Do you have a chart online to share? I'm not sure I completely understand
> the questions.
>
> Shawna
>
> BOM Instructor
>
> " Dear young people, in such a world is it hard to believe? Yes! It is
> hard... There is no need to hide it. It is hard, but with the help of grace
> it can be done." Pope John Paul II, World Youth Day 2000 in Rome
>
> To: cinnfp@yahoogroups.com <cinnfp%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> From: xangiemyra@... <xangiemyra%40yahoo.com>
>
> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 05:24:11 +0000
>
> Subject: [cinnfp] High Temp
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       Hi, I was just wondering if anyone had any insight to this.  Days 9
> and 14 I had coitus while in phase two.  For the last 3 days I have had
> higher than normal temps, I usually have only one peak day and this cycle I
> have had three.  I am at least 10 days away from phase 3.  Does this mean an
> egg possibly planted?  Or is this just a strange cycle?
>
> Angela
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
>
> New! Faster Messenger access on the new MSN homepage
>
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677406
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you’re up to on
> Facebook.
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691816
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry about the chart, I tried.  I was just wondering if the 3 high temps in a
row was a sign that conception occurred.  In all my charts for the last 8
months or so I have not had 3 high temps in a row for my peak. 



--- On Fri, 11/13/09, Shawna Van Uden <shawnapage@...> wrote:

From: Shawna Van Uden <shawnapage@...>
Subject: RE: [cinnfp] High Temp
To: cinnfp@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 11:21 PM


Hm, I was unable to see a chart.  Anyway, 3 high temps can indicate that
ovulation has occurred.  If any cervical mucus was present during the 5-7 days
before the higher temps and you had sex during that time, then yes - you could
have conceived. 

Does that answer your question?

Shawna




" Dear young people, in such a world is it hard to believe? Yes! It is hard..
There is no need to hide it. It is hard, but with the help of grace it can be
done." Pope John Paul II, World Youth Day 2000 in Rome




To: cinnfp@yahoogroups.com
From: xangiemyra@...
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 23:14:50 -0800
Subject: RE: [cinnfp] High Temp






















 


   
     
     
      Shawna,

The best I could do was attach it with a screen shot.  I am just wondering if
the high temp for 3 days could mean that I conceived. Thanks, Angela



--- On Fri, 11/13/09, Shawna Van Uden <shawnapage@...> wrote:



From: Shawna Van Uden <shawnapage@...>

Subject: RE: [cinnfp] High Temp

To: cinnfp@yahoogroups.com

Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 10:25 PM



Do you have a chart online to share? I'm not sure I completely understand the
questions.



Shawna

BOM Instructor



" Dear young people, in such a world is it hard to believe? Yes! It is hard...
There is no need to hide it. It is hard, but with the help of grace it can be
done." Pope John Paul II, World Youth Day 2000 in Rome



To: cinnfp@yahoogroups.com

From: xangiemyra@...

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 05:24:11 +0000

Subject: [cinnfp] High Temp



 



   

     

     

      Hi, I was just wondering if anyone had any insight to this.  Days 9
and 14 I had coitus while in phase two.  For the last 3 days I have had higher
than normal temps, I usually have only one peak day and this cycle I have had
three.  I am at least 10 days away from phase 3.  Does this mean an egg
possibly planted?  Or is this just a strange cycle?



Angela



   

     



   

   



                             

__________________________________________________________

New! Faster Messenger access on the new MSN homepage

http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677406



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------



Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






   
     

   
   






                            
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you’re up to on
Facebook.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691816

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hm, I was unable to see a chart.  Anyway, 3 high temps can indicate that
ovulation has occurred.  If any cervical mucus was present during the 5-7 days
before the higher temps and you had sex during that time, then yes - you could
have conceived.

Does that answer your question?

Shawna




" Dear young people, in such a world is it hard to believe? Yes! It is hard.
There is no need to hide it. It is hard, but with the help of grace it can be
done." Pope John Paul II, World Youth Day 2000 in Rome




To: cinnfp@yahoogroups.com
From: xangiemyra@...
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 23:14:50 -0800
Subject: RE: [cinnfp] High Temp




























       Shawna,

The best I could do was attach it with a screen shot.  I am just wondering if
the high temp for 3 days could mean that I conceived. Thanks, Angela



--- On Fri, 11/13/09, Shawna Van Uden <shawnapage@...> wrote:



From: Shawna Van Uden <shawnapage@...>

Subject: RE: [cinnfp] High Temp

To: cinnfp@yahoogroups.com

Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 10:25 PM



Do you have a chart online to share? I'm not sure I completely understand the
questions.



Shawna

BOM Instructor



" Dear young people, in such a world is it hard to believe? Yes! It is hard..
There is no need to hide it. It is hard, but with the help of grace it can be
done." Pope John Paul II, World Youth Day 2000 in Rome



To: cinnfp@yahoogroups.com

From: xangiemyra@...

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 05:24:11 +0000

Subject: [cinnfp] High Temp













       Hi, I was just wondering if anyone had any insight to this.  Days 9 and 14
I had coitus while in phase two.  For the last 3 days I have had higher than
normal temps, I usually have only one peak day and this cycle I have had three. 
I am at least 10 days away from phase 3.  Does this mean an egg possibly
planted?  Or is this just a strange cycle?



Angela

















__________________________________________________________

New! Faster Messenger access on the new MSN homepage

http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677406



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------



Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you’re up to on
Facebook.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691816

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Shawna,
The best I could do was attach it with a screen shot.  I am just wondering if
the high temp for 3 days could mean that I conceived. Thanks, Angela

--- On Fri, 11/13/09, Shawna Van Uden <shawnapage@...> wrote:

From: Shawna Van Uden <shawnapage@...>
Subject: RE: [cinnfp] High Temp
To: cinnfp@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 10:25 PM


Do you have a chart online to share? I'm not sure I completely understand the
questions.

Shawna
BOM Instructor



" Dear young people, in such a world is it hard to believe? Yes! It is hard..
There is no need to hide it. It is hard, but with the help of grace it can be
done." Pope John Paul II, World Youth Day 2000 in Rome




To: cinnfp@yahoogroups.com
From: xangiemyra@...
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 05:24:11 +0000
Subject: [cinnfp] High Temp






















 


   
     
     
      Hi, I was just wondering if anyone had any insight to this.  Days 9 and 14
I had coitus while in phase two.  For the last 3 days I have had higher than
normal temps, I usually have only one peak day and this cycle I have had three. 
I am at least 10 days away from phase 3.  Does this mean an egg possibly
planted?  Or is this just a strange cycle?



Angela






   
     

   
   






                            
_________________________________________________________________
New! Faster Messenger access on the new MSN homepage
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677406

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Do you have a chart online to share? I'm not sure I completely understand the
questions.

Shawna
BOM Instructor



" Dear young people, in such a world is it hard to believe? Yes! It is hard.
There is no need to hide it. It is hard, but with the help of grace it can be
done." Pope John Paul II, World Youth Day 2000 in Rome




To: cinnfp@yahoogroups.com
From: xangiemyra@...
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 05:24:11 +0000
Subject: [cinnfp] High Temp




























       Hi, I was just wondering if anyone had any insight to this.  Days 9 and 14
I had coitus while in phase two.  For the last 3 days I have had higher than
normal temps, I usually have only one peak day and this cycle I have had three. 
I am at least 10 days away from phase 3.  Does this mean an egg possibly
planted?  Or is this just a strange cycle?



Angela


















_________________________________________________________________
New! Faster Messenger access on the new MSN homepage
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677406

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, I was just wondering if anyone had any insight to this.  Days 9 and 14 I had
coitus while in phase two.  For the last 3 days I have had higher than normal
temps, I usually have only one peak day and this cycle I have had three.  I am
at least 10 days away from phase 3.  Does this mean an egg possibly planted?  Or
is this just a strange cycle?

Angela

I went through my old AoNFP book and it mentioned irregular shedding be a
possibility.  I think I'm going to have to get a new copy of FC&N if this goes
on for more months.  This is only my 3rd cycle pp, so I know that my body is
still "settling down". I'm still nursing my 13month old, as well.  This is the
first time I've ever had this particular temp thing happen.

Thanks for the replies.

Tabitha

-----Original Message-----
>From: James Van Damme <vandammes@...>
>Sent: Nov 8, 2009 6:44 PM
>To: cinnfp@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [cinnfp] BBT question
>
>On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 10:02 AM, Tabitha Spitzer <
>tabithaspitzer@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I'm on day 4 of my period. My BBT has still not gone down to preovulatory
>> levels. This isn't a lighter than normal cycle, and it's not just spotting.
>> I don't think it could be implantation bleeding. Ambient temps in my bedroom
>> are normal, with no changes over the last week.
>>
>> I can't think of any other reason why my BBT would stay up. Any thoughts?
>>
>The second thing I thought of was LUFS, which has to do with delayed
>follicles, thus delaying the progesterone. As I recall temps can stay up for
>an extra week or less.
>
>jim
>
>--
>Jim & Mary Margaret Van Damme
>Couple to Couple League-Central New York
>http://nfp.freehostia.com/   <== Big NFP site
>Our real address is vandamme@...!
>-------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


Tabitha
Mom to Abby (10 1/2), Mary (9), Kate (7), Lydia (4 1/2), Naomi (2 1/2), and
Joanna (10/15/08)
Wife to dh Steve

Dear friend,
I want to share a good website with you:   www.opilas.com < 
http://www.opilas.com>.
They mainy sell new and original products. Such as iphons, psp, laptops, digital
cameras ,
motorbikes and so on. They do international business and they can send the
product to every country in the world. They have good reputation and wonderful
after-sale services. They cooperate with HP, Apple,Sony companies. So you can
fix the product in your country for free.
It will be a good choice for you if you need these products.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 10:02 AM, Tabitha Spitzer <
tabithaspitzer@...> wrote:

>
>
> I'm on day 4 of my period. My BBT has still not gone down to preovulatory
> levels. This isn't a lighter than normal cycle, and it's not just spotting.
> I don't think it could be implantation bleeding. Ambient temps in my bedroom
> are normal, with no changes over the last week.
>
> I can't think of any other reason why my BBT would stay up. Any thoughts?
>
The second thing I thought of was LUFS, which has to do with delayed
follicles, thus delaying the progesterone. As I recall temps can stay up for
an extra week or less.

jim

--
Jim & Mary Margaret Van Damme
Couple to Couple League-Central New York
http://nfp.freehostia.com/   <== Big NFP site
Our real address is vandamme@...!
-------------------------------------------------------------


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]