Thanks for your post, Pete, and insights into the genetic aspects of
body mass.

When Flick wrote "the genes are indeed effected by patterns in the
family thought" I wondered if she actually meant to present the more
radical idea "genes are indeed AFFECTED by patterns in the family
thought". Perhaps Flick can clarify this for us?

As far as conventional genetics are concerned, they have tended to be
sidelined in the debate about the current obesity epidemic in the so-
called "developed" nations like UK and USA. It does not seem possible
that the genetic makeup of the affected populations has shifted with
the speed and extent that might explain the rapid rise in obesity
rates and obesity-related diseases such as diabetes type 2.

It is interesting that there has been a parallel emergence of other
epidemics which are more obviously of a "hypersensitivity/intolerance"
nature e.g. food allergies/intolerances and asthmatic
hypersensitivity. This goes back to Lousie Hay's basic ideas about
the dynamics of fat deposition and my own about the activation, then
repression, of our "fight/flight" intolerant response to undue stress.

These parallel epidemics tend to lend some support to my own belief
that we may, as a society in an increasingly
(genetically/evolutionarily) un-natural environment, be suffering
stressful reactions to undue physiological/neurological demands,
which manifest as these emerging epidemics.

The Paleolithic Diet movement, which Joyce referred to, seems to be
also working along this type of hypothesis.

Best wishes

Mike


--- In cheal@yahoogroups.com, Pete Chown <pete@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Flick,
>
> > F:from what I understand about the psyche and certain psycho
schools
> > the genes are indeed effected by patterns in the family thought
forms.
>
> I'm not sure I understand this completely. Are you saying that
genes influence
> thought patterns, so they might make various people in my family
think about
> food in a similar way to me? That's a possibility. I was actually
imagining
> our genes altering our physiology, perhaps giving us a rapid
metabolism in our
> twenties which then falls off in our thirties.
>
> Studies of twins suggest that there is a genetic factor in weight
gain. If
> you measure the BMI of identical and non-identical twins, you find
that the
> identical twins are more similar. Because identical twins have
identical
> genes, and non-identical twins don't, this suggests that weight
gain is a
> result of genetics -- at least in part.
>
> The twin studies can't tell us how the genes have their effect.
They might
> cause the identical twins to experience food in certain ways, as
you were
> thinking. Alternatively, they might influence metabolism, as I was
thinking.
> You should be able to distinguish the two by also asking the twins
how many
> calories they were consuming, and what exercise they did. As far
as I know,
> this has not yet been done.
>
> > F: The governments plan is extremely naive... I am so glad you
said
> > that.... I don't see it completely as an irrelevance however as I
know
> > it needs to be tackled on many levels. It's a good starting place
for
> > many and certainly imperitive for me as the more depressed I
become
> > about it the worse the problem gets...
>
> The problem is that 90% of dieters put the weight back on again.
There is a
> word for treatments that fail 90% of the time, but I'm probably not
supposed
> to use it on this list. :-)
>
> I wonder if diet advice is actually counter-productive for some
people. It
> sets them up to fail, and failure could give them a negative self-
image. The
> reality is that almost no one succeeds, so the negative self-image
isn't
> justified. Failure just means they are human, with the weaknesses
we all have.
>
> (I'm sorry to hear you get depressed about your weight, by the way.)
>
> > F: Absolutely! I wish people would but my goodness it takes alot
to do
> > it when you feel so vulnerable... I am not believed most of the
time
> > (there there poor dear... in denial!)and people wanting to help
put
> > forward suggestions which are equally as naive as the
government ...
>
> Thanks Michael for your story. I promise I won't give unwanted
advice if
> anyone else is willing to share their experiences! (I wouldn't
know what to
> suggest anyway, for the reasons I've already talked about.)
>
> If you don't want to post on the group, it would still be nice to
hear from
> you by email.
>
> Pete
>