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#2158

From: Faith Mills <tmrcj@...>
Date: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:10 pm
Subject: ^Julianna^

tmrcj

Offline

My youngest daughter with CP died last Saturday 8-16 in her sleep. She had a traumatic Brain injury (HIE) injury from birth. She was g-tube fed, fundo, had diabetes insipidus etc..seizure disorder and was blind, completely non-verbal and in diapers and a wheelchair but her smiles stole your heart. She touched so many lives in her 7.5 short years and is sorely missed.

Faith

IN LOVING MEMORY OF JULIANNA GRACE MILLS 12/1/00 to 8/16/08
>
> By: Faith Mills
>
>
>
> God sent a tiny girl
> that day
>
> To touch lives in a
> special way
>
> A body broken, tired
> and weak
>
> So for HIS strength we▃
> eagerly seek
>
> Long black hair and
> big brown eyes
>
> A gappy toothed smile,
> a welcome surprise
>
> A family she needs to
> have and to hold
>
> Very little potential
> we were told
>
> But minds were changed
> and hearts she stole
>
> A smile so bright,
> like a diamond from coal
>
> Her legs can now run,
> her voice lift in song
>
> Our pillow angel is
> all right, no more can go wrong
>
> During sweet dreams,
> she quietly slipped away
>
> She's in the arms of Christ
> Jesus today
>
>
>
> I LOVE YOU JULIANNA GRACE.
>
> It was a privilege to be your Mommy.
>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (15)

#2157

From: Debra Marasco-McNulty <debraphp@...>
Date: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:11 am
Subject: Re: when/how talking began

Offline

I've held off on responding. I am still waiting for Jason to form words, but I understand (at least I think I do) some of his noises and then I read his body language. Hope someday for a computer/software program that he could use. There are alot out there right now, but it is daunting finding them and then gaining access to try them without spending a fortune

I guess it depends on if the part of the brain for speech function was damaged; then if the cognitive area was damaged. Many variables.

Debra M-Mc (mom to Jason age 31, micro cp, spastic quad, trach, g-tube)

--- On Thu, 8/21/08, Patricia Rodriguez <patricia_e_rodriguez@...> wrote:

From: Patricia Rodriguez <patricia_e_rodriguez@...>
Subject: Re: [cerebralpalsy] when/how talking began
To: cerebralpalsy@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 5:59 PM

I wish I knew if my son will talk someday. He just babbles as well and he is 9.

--- On Thu, 8/21/08, my_special_son2 <my_special_son2@ yahoo.com> wrote:
From: my_special_son2 <my_special_son2@ yahoo.com>
Subject: [cerebralpalsy] when/how talking began
To: cerebralpalsy@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 2:17 PM

Just wondering, for those with children who were non-verbal, when/how
talking began?

My son is 4 1/2 and still babbles a lot, but lost the few words he used
to babble (speech therapist said probably because it was accidental and
now he doesn't know how to do it on purpose) and it seems he will never
talk.

He just started sucking from a straw, so maybe he'll gain the
strength/skills he needs from that.

Just looking for some hope...

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (15)

#2156

From: Patricia Rodriguez <patricia_e_rodriguez@...>
Date: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:59 am
Subject: Re: when/how talking began

patricia_e_r...

Offline

I wish I knew if my son will talk someday. He just babbles as well and he is 9.

--- On Thu, 8/21/08, my_special_son2 <my_special_son2@...> wrote:

From: my_special_son2 <my_special_son2@...>
Subject: [cerebralpalsy] when/how talking began
To: cerebralpalsy@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 2:17 PM

Just wondering, for those with children who were non-verbal, when/how
talking began?

My son is 4 1/2 and still babbles a lot, but lost the few words he used
to babble (speech therapist said probably because it was accidental and
now he doesn't know how to do it on purpose) and it seems he will never
talk.

He just started sucking from a straw, so maybe he'll gain the
strength/skills he needs from that.

Just looking for some hope...

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (15)

#2155

From: "my_special_son2" <my_special_son2@...>
Date: Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:17 pm
Subject: when/how talking began

my_special_son2

Offline

Just wondering, for those with children who were non-verbal, when/how
talking began?

My son is 4 1/2 and still babbles a lot, but lost the few words he used
to babble (speech therapist said probably because it was accidental and
now he doesn't know how to do it on purpose) and it seems he will never
talk.

He just started sucking from a straw, so maybe he'll gain the
strength/skills he needs from that.

Just looking for some hope...

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (15)

#2154

From: "JASON SALLY BECK" <familybeck5@...>
Date: Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:13 pm
Subject: Re: New Gains - have to share

Offline

Lisa,

We attribute Lauren's gains to doing the NACD program, which includes army crawling. We did also do a round of 40 HBO tx at the beginning of the year, which we did see some improvement from in speech clarity and fine motor function. The strengthening is totally from us working the program NACD gives us and God's grace. This year, we have not used any outside therapies, besides the HBO, and she is not on any medications (nor has she ever been).

Sally

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (3)

#2153

From: "Castle" <castletowery@...>
Date: Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:05 pm
Subject: Re: Call for Action by VIEWERS of Tropic Thunder Screening!!!

Offline

I want to see the movie to judge for myself...but we do not go out to
the movies more than every 4-5 yrs so I will wait for it to come out
on video and rent it.
I am not one easily offended and I know Ben Stiller and the like are
offensive to many groups....they don't discriminate on who they
ridicule, mock or make fun of.  From my understanding the movie is
more about them being "movie stars" who now go into the military and
one of the "movie star" characters a movie that was based around an MR
character.....anything Ben Stiller, Jack Black do is going to be
ridiculous and not to be taken seriously....Have you seen Jack Black
in Shallow Hal?  OR Ben Stiller in Zoolander? Ridiculous shows.

From the previews I have seen of Tropic Thunder...Ben Stiller Robert
Downey JR Jack Black end up not playing a role in a war movie they are
sent to war.....they seem to make fun of black people with RDJ's
character getting his skin colored black(I guess making fun of the
people who get their skin lightened?? I dunno)

Gosh now I actually want to go see the show so I can judge for myself....

Like I said before I have never been one easily offended...being a
overweight, country girl, who loves Nascar, and Jesus....there are
soooo many movies out there that could offend me in one way or another
but I usually find them funny or lightly amusing....but then again I
don't even really like comedies, I would much prefer a action or
thriller movie to a comedy anyday....so who am I to judge what is
funny....lol
though I do like good comedians (ie Bill Engvall, Larry the Cable Guy
and the like...funny yet still clean)

Anyhow...I am getting off the subject....what was the subject....lol

Okay I will either go see the movie and give a first hand account or I
will wait for it to come out on video and rent it...then I can
re-watch it if I missed something...lol...doubt it will be worth
re-watching

Just my .02 cents which is probably not even worth .01 cent...lol

Castle

  Joan Francis <access2narnia@...> wrote:
>
> The movie intentionally ridicules people with intellectual
disabilities by its entire plot, theme, and language.� There are
plenty of references in recent posts going into great detail or go to
this website on the subject by Special Olympics:�
> �
> Pledge your support to eliminate the demeaning use of the "r-word"
visit www.r-word.org
> �
>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (11)

#2152

From: "Castle" <castletowery@...>
Date: Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:27 pm
Subject: Group QuestionsRe:Call for Action by VIEWERS of Tropic Thunder Screening!!!

Offline

Thanks for sending this message....IF anyone has questions regarding
the group, please email the group owner.  Which is me.  When anyone
emails me regarding editing membership I will walk them through it or
do it for them.  BUT I have to receive an email from you in order to
assist you with that.  So please email me!

Thanks,
Castle
group owner

, "my_special_son2" <my_special_son2@...> wrote:
>
> You are recieving these messages because your e-mail address is part
> of the 'cerebralpalsy' Yahoo Group.  You just need to log into your
> Yahoo Group account and end your membership in that group, or at
> least change the status to web only instead of recieving e-mail.
>
> I am not the owner of this group so I can't help you out with more
> than that info.
> --- In cerebralpalsy@yahoogroups.com, Goldie Bryant <trrapped@>
> wrote:
> >
> > To: everyone who receives these mailings
> > �
> > I have tried for the past 2 yrs to remove myself from this group of
> mailings, and still am having no luck, Please remove me from your
> list of people to mail this crap to. REMOVE MY EMAIL ADDRESS FROM
> YOUR CONTACTS PLEASE!!!!!!!! I've even marked all this mail as spam
> and STILL get it.
> > �
> > �
> >
> >
> > --- On Wed, 8/13/08, Cal <lordcallumhume@> wrote:
> >
> > From: Cal <lordcallumhume@>
> > Subject: Re: [cerebralpalsy] Re:Call for Action by VIEWERS of
> Tropic Thunder Screening!!!
> > To: cerebralpalsy@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Wednesday, August 13, 2008, 2:28 AM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Major news outlets carrying the same story:
> >
> > http://www.abcnews. go.com/Entertain ment/story? id=5560702&page=1
> > http://www.msnbc. msn.com/id/ 26158247/
> > http://www.theinsid er.com/news/ 1122949_Mental_ disability_
> groups_protest_ Tropic_Thunder
> > http://www.foxnews. com/story/ 0,2933,402082, 00.html
> > http://news. bbc.co.uk/ 1/hi/entertainme nt/7555603. stm
> > http://www.usatoday .com/life/ movies/news/ 2008-08-11- tropic-
> thunder- premiere_ N.htm
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Carrie Gorga <carrie_gorga@ yahoo.com>
> > To: cerebralpalsy@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 18:17
> > Subject: [cerebralpalsy] Re:Call for Action by VIEWERS of Tropic
> Thunder Screening!!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I would love to send a simple web link to everyone on my email
> list... does anyone have an accessible link for those outside of the
> disability community that might help them to understand? I have the
> feeling few would sit and read the releases/posts on this topic that
> I have received, but might glean some info from a website.
> > Thanks!
> > Carrie, mama of Finlan, age 2
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on
> the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage
> today.
> >
>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (11)

#2151

From: "Castle" <castletowery@...>
Date: Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:23 pm
Subject: Goldie Bryant Re:Call for Action by VIEWERS of Tropic Thunder Screening!!!

Offline

If you want to remove yourself from the group go to the group home page
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/cerebralpalsy
just above the group name you will see edit membership....click that
scroll down that page and select your message delivery options.  You
can choose to only view emails via the website, you can choose to get
daily digest(which is 1 email sent to you with 25 group messages in
it)  You can also use the edit membership link to leave the group.

Hope this helps,
Castle
group owner

, Goldie Bryant <trrapped@...> wrote:
>
> To: everyone who receives these mailings
> �
> I have tried for the past 2 yrs to remove myself from this group of
mailings, and still am having no luck, Please remove me from your list
of people to mail this crap to. REMOVE MY EMAIL ADDRESS FROM YOUR
CONTACTS PLEASE!!!!!!!! I've even marked all this mail as spam and
STILL get it.
> �
> �
>
>
> --- On Wed, 8/13/08, Cal <lordcallumhume@...> wrote:
>
> From: Cal <lordcallumhume@...>
> Subject: Re: [cerebralpalsy] Re:Call for Action by VIEWERS of Tropic
Thunder Screening!!!
> To: cerebralpalsy@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, August 13, 2008, 2:28 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Major news outlets carrying the same story:
>
> http://www.abcnews. go.com/Entertain ment/story? id=5560702&page=1
> http://www.msnbc. msn.com/id/ 26158247/
> http://www.theinsid er.com/news/ 1122949_Mental_ disability_
groups_protest_ Tropic_Thunder
> http://www.foxnews. com/story/ 0,2933,402082, 00.html
> http://news. bbc.co.uk/ 1/hi/entertainme nt/7555603. stm
> http://www.usatoday .com/life/ movies/news/ 2008-08-11-
tropic-thunder- premiere_ N.htm
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carrie Gorga <carrie_gorga@ yahoo.com>
> To: cerebralpalsy@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 18:17
> Subject: [cerebralpalsy] Re:Call for Action by VIEWERS of Tropic
Thunder Screening!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I would love to send a simple web link to everyone on my email
list... does anyone have an accessible link for those outside of the
disability community that might help them to understand? I have the
feeling few would sit and read the releases/posts on this topic that I
have received, but might glean some info from a website.
> Thanks!
> Carrie, mama of Finlan, age 2
>
>
>
>
> AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on
the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage
today.
>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (11)

#2150

From: "my_special_son2" <my_special_son2@...>
Date: Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:34 am
Subject: Re:Call for Action by VIEWERS of Tropic Thunder Screening!!!

my_special_son2

Offline

You are recieving these messages because your e-mail address is part
of the 'cerebralpalsy' Yahoo Group.  You just need to log into your
Yahoo Group account and end your membership in that group, or at
least change the status to web only instead of recieving e-mail.

I am not the owner of this group so I can't help you out with more
than that info.
--- In cerebralpalsy@yahoogroups.com, Goldie Bryant <trrapped@...>
wrote:
>
> To: everyone who receives these mailings
> �
> I have tried for the past 2 yrs to remove myself from this group of
mailings, and still am having no luck, Please remove me from your
list of people to mail this crap to. REMOVE MY EMAIL ADDRESS FROM
YOUR CONTACTS PLEASE!!!!!!!! I've even marked all this mail as spam
and STILL get it.
> �
> �
>
>
> --- On Wed, 8/13/08, Cal <lordcallumhume@...> wrote:
>
> From: Cal <lordcallumhume@...>
> Subject: Re: [cerebralpalsy] Re:Call for Action by VIEWERS of
Tropic Thunder Screening!!!
> To: cerebralpalsy@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, August 13, 2008, 2:28 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Major news outlets carrying the same story:
>
> http://www.abcnews. go.com/Entertain ment/story? id=5560702&page=1
> http://www.msnbc. msn.com/id/ 26158247/
> http://www.theinsid er.com/news/ 1122949_Mental_ disability_
groups_protest_ Tropic_Thunder
> http://www.foxnews. com/story/ 0,2933,402082, 00.html
> http://news. bbc.co.uk/ 1/hi/entertainme nt/7555603. stm
> http://www.usatoday .com/life/ movies/news/ 2008-08-11- tropic-
thunder- premiere_ N.htm
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carrie Gorga <carrie_gorga@ yahoo.com>
> To: cerebralpalsy@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 18:17
> Subject: [cerebralpalsy] Re:Call for Action by VIEWERS of Tropic
Thunder Screening!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I would love to send a simple web link to everyone on my email
list... does anyone have an accessible link for those outside of the
disability community that might help them to understand? I have the
feeling few would sit and read the releases/posts on this topic that
I have received, but might glean some info from a website.
> Thanks!
> Carrie, mama of Finlan, age 2
>
>
>
>
> AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on
the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage
today.
>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (11)

#2149

From: "my_special_son2" <my_special_son2@...>
Date: Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:28 am
Subject: Re: New Gains - have to share

my_special_son2

Offline

Congratulations!  Do you attribute it all to the army crawling, or
other things as well?

My son has been combat crawling for 2 yrs now.  But this year, after
having botox to release some of the tension in his legs, he started
spontaneously prop sitting, side sitting, and creeping a few steps on
his elbows.

I didn't realize before how much his tight legs/loose trunk impacted
all these skills.  I also didn't realize that his tight
abductors/adductors (ones that make you scissor -- can't ever remember
the difference) were part of compensating for the low tone in his lower
back (something mentioned on Anat Baniel's videos on her site).  We're
still working on that lower back strength.

congrats again on the gains,
Lisa
(mom to Joshua, 4 1/2, with CP, Hydrocephalus, CVI, and profound
cognitive delays; my happy combat crawling mugga bugga)
--- In cerebralpalsy@yahoogroups.com, "familybeck5" <familybeck5@...>
wrote:
>
> Lauren put her knees under her, which she has been doing, but then
she
> pushed herself up with her arms into a sitting position.  She then
> toppled back (not hurting herself).  She is getting SO MUCH
> STRONGER!!!  She told me that when she starts walking she is going to
> Disneyland to stay in the Princess Castle.  And we most definitely
will
> do that.  Anyone who's working on army crawling, KEEP GOING, it helps
> so much in strengthening their muscles.
> Blessings,
> Sally
> mom to Dylan 15, Lauren 6 1/2 CP, and Sage 22 months.
>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (3)

#2148

From: Joan Francis <access2narnia@...>
Date: Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:49 pm
Subject: Re: Call for Action by VIEWERS of Tropic Thunder Screening!!!

Offline

The movie intentionally ridicules people with intellectual disabilities by its entire plot, theme, and language. There are plenty of references in recent posts going into great detail or go to this website on the subject by Special Olympics:

Pledge your support to eliminate the demeaning use of the "r-word" visit www.r-word.org

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (11)

#2147

From: Joan Francis <access2narnia@...>
Date: Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:43 pm
Subject: Re:Call for Action by VIEWERS of Tropic Thunder Screening!!!

Offline

HERE IS A GOOD INTRODUCTORY WEBSITE TO SHARE WITH OTHERS ----also to allow discussion of the issues:

Eliminate the Use of the "R" word... Pledge Your Support

Posted by: "Yvonne Pierre" phoqus2002@... phoqus2002

Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:37 am (PDT)

Pledge your support to eliminate the demeaning use of the "r-word" visit www.r-word.org

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (11)

#2146

From: Joan Francis <access2narnia@...>
Date: Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:39 pm
Subject: Special Olympic Website Against the "R-word"

Offline

From the down syndrome yahoo group:

Eliminate the Use of the "R" word... Pledge Your Support

Posted by: "Yvonne Pierre" phoqus2002@... phoqus2002

Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:37 am (PDT)

Pledge your support to eliminate the demeaning use of the "r-word" visit www.r-word.org

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)

#2145

From: "familybeck5" <familybeck5@...>
Date: Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:16 pm
Subject: New Gains - have to share

Offline

Lauren put her knees under her, which she has been doing, but then she
pushed herself up with her arms into a sitting position.  She then
toppled back (not hurting herself).  She is getting SO MUCH
STRONGER!!!  She told me that when she starts walking she is going to
Disneyland to stay in the Princess Castle.  And we most definitely will
do that.  Anyone who's working on army crawling, KEEP GOING, it helps
so much in strengthening their muscles.
Blessings,
Sally
mom to Dylan 15, Lauren 6 1/2 CP, and Sage 22 months.

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (3)

#2144

From: Goldie Bryant <trrapped@...>
Date: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:43 am
Subject: Re: Re:Call for Action by VIEWERS of Tropic Thunder Screening!!!

Offline

To: everyone who receives these mailings

I have tried for the past 2 yrs to remove myself from this group of mailings, and still am having no luck, Please remove me from your list of people to mail this crap to. REMOVE MY EMAIL ADDRESS FROM YOUR CONTACTS PLEASE!!!!!!!! I've even marked all this mail as spam and STILL get it.

--- On Wed, 8/13/08, Cal <lordcallumhume@...> wrote:

From: Cal <lordcallumhume@...>
Subject: Re: [cerebralpalsy] Re:Call for Action by VIEWERS of Tropic Thunder Screening!!!
To: cerebralpalsy@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, August 13, 2008, 2:28 AM

Major news outlets carrying the same story:

http://www.abcnews. go.com/Entertain ment/story? id=5560702&page=1
http://www.msnbc. msn.com/id/ 26158247/
http://www.theinsid er.com/news/ 1122949_Mental_ disability_ groups_protest_ Tropic_Thunder
http://www.foxnews. com/story/ 0,2933,402082, 00.html
http://news. bbc.co.uk/ 1/hi/entertainme nt/7555603. stm
http://www.usatoday .com/life/ movies/news/ 2008-08-11- tropic-thunder- premiere_ N.htm

-----Original Message-----
From: Carrie Gorga <carrie_gorga@ yahoo.com>
To: cerebralpalsy@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 18:17
Subject: [cerebralpalsy] Re:Call for Action by VIEWERS of Tropic Thunder Screening!!!

I would love to send a simple web link to everyone on my email list... does anyone have an accessible link for those outside of the disability community that might help them to understand? I have the feeling few would sit and read the releases/posts on this topic that I have received, but might glean some info from a website.
Thanks!
Carrie, mama of Finlan, age 2

AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (11)

#2143

From: Cal <lordcallumhume@...>
Date: Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:28 am
Subject: Re: Re:Call for Action by VIEWERS of Tropic Thunder Screening!!!

Offline

Major news outlets carrying the same story:

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/story?id=5560702&page=1
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26158247/
http://www.theinsider.com/news/1122949_Mental_disability_groups_protest_Tropic_Thunder
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,402082,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7555603.stm
http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2008-08-11-tropic-thunder-premiere_N.htm

-----Original Message-----
From: Carrie Gorga <carrie_gorga@...>
To: cerebralpalsy@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 18:17
Subject: [cerebralpalsy] Re:Call for Action by VIEWERS of Tropic Thunder Screening!!!

I would love to send a simple web link to everyone on my email list... does anyone have an accessible link for those outside of the disability community that might help them to understand? I have the feeling few would sit and read the releases/posts on this topic that I have received, but might glean some info from a website.
Thanks!
Carrie, mama of Finlan, age 2

AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (11)

#2142

From: Cynthia Sanitago <santiagobell@...>
Date: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:18 am
Subject: Re: Re:Call for Action by VIEWERS of Tropic Thunder Screening!!!

Offline

I am lost, whats wrong with the movie?

Carrie Gorga <carrie_gorga@...> wrote:

I would love to send a simple web link to everyone on my email list... does anyone have an accessible link for those outside of the disability community that might help them to understand? I have the feeling few would sit and read the releases/posts on this topic that I have received, but might glean some info from a website.
Thanks!
Carrie, mama of Finlan, age 2

<a href="http://lilypie.com"><img src="http://bd.lilypie.com/STAEm5.png" alt="Lilypie Expecting a baby Ticker" border="0" /></a>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (11)

#2141

From: Carrie Gorga <carrie_gorga@...>
Date: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:17 am
Subject: Re:Call for Action by VIEWERS of Tropic Thunder Screening!!!

Offline

I would love to send a simple web link to everyone on my email list... does
anyone have an accessible link for those outside of the disability community
that might help them to understand?  I have the feeling few would sit and read
the releases/posts on this topic that I have received, but might glean some info
from a website.
Thanks!
Carrie, mama of Finlan, age 2

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#2140

From: Joan Francis <access2narnia@...>
Date: Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:45 pm
Subject: Great Online Resource for IEP Preparation!!!

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From the iep_guide yahoo group, a Great Special Education Self-Help Resource for Parents and Educators!!!

Check out the website at: www.iepfree.com

About Us

IEP4U.COM has over 4000 free Goals and Objectives (IEP-ITP) each with changeable benchmarks. The Idea Statements are spread out over seven subjects (Domains) and four functional levels. Teachers, parents and students can now access objectives directly from this Web Site. Input key words, phrases, or test names in the search engine to find just the correct objectives for your students needs. Copy and paste any information you want, then modify the objectives (examples) to exactly describe the needs of your students. The kid section will give your students personal input to write their own objectives (with your help) and to play some interesting games as well. This information is designed to help you with the daunting task of writing proper IEP's

The data within this web site was written to correlate with the unique characteristics of various formal assessments. Since assessment is essential for the development of the IEP, specific questions were evaluated and idea statements written based upon those questions. Searching the data for idea statements by assessment will enable teachers to plan lessons based upon how the student scored on the assessment

A new web site for www.iep4u.com will soon give the teachers a online iep writer and ablity to save and update with primary and secondary passwords. This new iep writer shoiuld be able to create forms that duplicate the exact forms used in each district. This will steamline the IEP process so teachers can spend more time wtih their students and less time on paperwork.

Company history

IEP4U started in 1999 when two teachers decided it was time to help steamline the IEP process. With orver a million visitors, there are now thousands of subscibers to their site.

Customer testimonials

There are many Universities, Schools, Autisim Societies, and Special Educational Institutions that have linked www.iep4u,com on their site. See Links in red menu.

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#2139

From: Joan Francis <access2narnia@...>
Date: Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:08 am
Subject: Wash Post Editorial by Chairman of Special Olympics

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NEWS | OPINIONS | SPORTS | ARTS & LIVING | Discussions | Photos & Video | City Guide | CLASSIFIEDS | JOBS | CARS | REAL ESTATE

What 'Tropic Thunder' Thinks Is Funny

By Timothy Shriver
Monday, August 11, 2008; A15

I've been told to keep my sense of humor about the film "Tropic Thunder," which opens this week. Despite my requests, I have not been given the chance to see the movie. But I've seen previews, read about it and read excerpts of the script. By all accounts, it is an unchecked assault on the humanity of people with intellectual disabilities -- an affront to dignity, hope and respect.

Consider this exchange:

Ben Stiller's character: "There were times when I was doing Jack when I actually felt retarded. Like really retarded."

Robert Downey Jr.'s character: "Oh yeah. Damn."

Stiller: "In a weird way, I had to sort of just free myself up to believe that it was okay to be stupid or dumb."

Downey: "To be a moron."

Stiller: "Yeah."

At another point, about acting like a person with intellectual disabilities, they say:

Stiller: "It's what we do, right?"

Downey: "Everybody knows you never do a full retard."

Stiller: "What do you mean?"

Downey: "Check it out. Dustin Hoffman, 'Rain Man,' look retarded, act retarded, not retarded. Count toothpicks to your cards. Autistic, sure. Not retarded. You know Tom Hanks, 'Forrest Gump.' Slow, yes. Retarded, maybe. Braces on his legs. But he charmed the pants off Nixon and won a ping-pong competition. That ain't retarded. You went full retard, man. Never go full retard."

I worked with the Farrelly brothers on a film on this topic. I know about edgy comedy. I'm also told that movies are equal-opportunity offenders.

So here's an equal-opportunity response to the equal-opportunity offenders:

People with intellectual disabilities are routinely abused, neglected, insulted, institutionalized and even killed around the world. Their parents are told to give up, that their children are worthless. Schools turn them away. Doctors refuse to treat them. Employers won't hire them. None of this is funny.

For centuries, they have been the exception to the most basic spiritual principle: that we are each equal in spirit, capable of reflecting the goodness of the divine, carriers of love. But not people with intellectual disabilities. What's a word commonly applied to them? Hopeless.

Let's consider where we are in 2008. Our politics are about overcoming division, our social movements are about ending intolerance, our great philanthropists promote ending poverty and disease among the world's poor. Are people with intellectual disabilities included in the mainstream of these movements? For the most part, no.

Why? Because they're different. Their joy doesn't fit on magazine covers. Their spirituality doesn't come in self-help television. Their kind of wealth doesn't command political attention. (The best of the spirit never does.)

Sadly, they're such an easy target that many people don't realize whom they are making fun of when they use the word "retard." Most people just think it's funny. "Stupid, idiot, moron, retard." Ha, ha, ha.

I know: I could be too sensitive. But I was taught that mean isn't funny. And I've been to institutions where people with intellectual disabilities are tied to beds or lie on concrete floors, forgotten. I've heard doctors say they won't treat them. I know Gallup found that more than 60 percent of Americans don't want a person with an intellectual disability at their child's school.

I've talked to people with intellectual disabilities who cry over being insulted on a bus. I've received too many e-mails from people who are devastated not by their child's disability but by the terror of being laughed at, excluded and economically devastated.

It wasn't funny when Hollywood humiliated African Americans for a generation. It's never funny when good and decent human beings are humiliated. In fact, it is dangerous and disgusting.

This film is all that and more. DreamWorks went so far as to create a mini-version of Simple Jack and posted it online. The studio has since pulled it down, realizing it had gone too far, even in an age of edgy, R-rated comedies.

So, enough. Stop the hurtful jokes. Talk to your children about language that is bullying and mean. Ask your friends, your educators, your religious leaders to help us to end the stubborn myth that people with intellectual disabilities are hopeless. Ask Hollywood to get on the right side of dignity.

I hope others will join me in shutting this movie out of our lives and our pocketbooks. We don't live in times when labeling and humiliating others is funny. And we should send that message far and wide.

The writer is chairman of Special Olympics and a columnist for washingtonpost.com's On Faith discussion site.

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#2138

From: Joan Francis <access2narnia@...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:51 pm
Subject: Mother of Child with DS & Others CALL FOR DREAMWORKS ACCOUNTABILITY

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A huge favor to ask-please read and share this email

if you got this letter and have no clue who I am, sorry. I sent it to everyone in my email addys. Sorry to bother you.

For the rest of you:

I am writing this letter in the hopes that you will really read it and hear me out. There is a new movie coming out called Tropic Thunder. It premiers tomorrow. This new DreamWorks film, Tropic Thunder, uses intellectual disability as a way to be humorous. The advertising they did for this film included "Simple Jack" trailers, which is a movie-within- the-movie of Ben Stiller's character portraying a person who is intellectually disabled. Stiller plays Tugg Speedman, a fading action star who earlier failed in his bid for an Oscar as "Simple Jack," a man with an intellectual disability. "Simple Jack" features Stiller sporting a classic institutional bowl haircut and bad teeth (see poster below). The film within-a-film' s slogan is "What he doesn't have in his head, he makes up for in his heart." A satirical plot synopsis quotes a critic as saying that Speedman's Jack was "one of the most retarded performances in cinema history."

The advertising campaign includes posters saying "Once upon a time, there was a retard". A scene in the movie has Ben Stiller and Robert Downey Jr. discussing Stiller's role as "Simple Jack" and Robert Downey Jr. telling him to "never go full retard." Already, the term "go full retard" is in the popular lexicon. It is already on t-shirts. The movie has not yet even premiered. In perhaps the single most offensive scene in the film, Matthew McConaughey, who plays a Hollywood agent, speaks to the film's main character who wants to adopt a child. "Well, at least you still have a choice. I'm stuck with mine," states McConaughey while pointing to a photograph of his teenage son who appears to have an intellectual disability. It is worth noting that over 90% of prenatally diagnosed babies with Down syndrome are killed through abortion, and that figure is climbing.

There has been mounting outrage from the disability community as the film's content is gradually becoming known. For excellent coverage of the issue, see http://www.patricia ebauer.com/ 2008/08/01/ once-upon- a-time/ and related posts.

Individuals who have intellectual disabilities CANNOT speak up for themselves, and I refuse to sit quietly and not spread the word that this movie is just another "comedy of the summer." I try not to get all wound up over words, usually. Before I had Ciarra (10 yrs old and beautiful, she also has Down syndrome) I used the word retard myself. In fact, it flew off my lips easily, and I never knew the full impact of it until some time after she was born. Eventually, it became personal. I used it to mean stupid, dumb, foolish...and then I had to face it in medical jargon and the terminology used regarding my daughter. I had to hear the words from Doctors and Nurses, teachers and administrators. It felt different after awhile, and when I heard the clinical term used as an insult or a jab "Oh, I am such a retard" or "Dont be so retarded" I felt it keenly and personally. It was no different than someone saying to me "Oh, I am just as stupid as Ciarra". Ciarra is NOT stupid. Ciarra was born with a diagnosis of Down syndrome, that will forever impact her life, but that has not been anything close to awful...unless you count the mean and hurtful things that society has said. Telling me that you didnt mean her doesnt cut it. Who did you mean, which person with an Intellectual Disability is it ok to laugh at?

I expect that the people who love us will respect Ciarra enough to call her a child WITH DS, not a "DS child", and I sure wont tolerate the use of the word retard in my little world. But this goes deeper. This is going to be a very popular movie, most people will go to see it unaware that this plot within a plot exists, or worse, they will know and wont care. I imagine people I love, young adults with DS, attenting this movie not knowing the "inside joke" and sitting there hearing these words come one after another, retard, dumb, stupid, imbecile, moron...words most of them have learned the hard way, as they grew up, are directed at them. Imagine what it will be like, to be them, sitting there surrounded by people who think it is hysterically funny to mock others because of how they were born, knowing they were born just the same? Imagine the same words used in the school hallways and lunchrooms, and imagine being ten years old and hearing them and for the first time ever, feeling completely and irretrievably different?

I know of one young man who no longer goes out in public, he doesnt work, he doesnt have friends. Why? Because he knows what people mean when they call him a retard. They mean that he is inferior, dumb, unequal. They use it to taunt him, this young man whose life was as full of promise as Ciarra's. Will that be her life, someday? Taunted until she stops laughing, stops wanting to be a part of a world she sees as pretty awesome? Please help me make people understand that this is wrong. It isnt "just a movie" and it isnt "just words". These words hurt just the same as if they were the N word being directed at a little black child. In fact, the cast and crew WERE sensitive to people of color, so much so that they stopped mid-production to get a feel for "what felt right". Sadly, it never occurred to them to ask how it might feel to be a person born with an intellectual disability and hear the word retard time after time after time. Or to be the parents of that child.

"Tropic Thunder" is on the cover of Entertainment Weekly this week with an interview with the three stars where they discussed how careful they had to be with the issue of Downey playing an African-American. Here is an excerpt and link:

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: The challenge with that character was to find the right line. You want to make fun of this pompous actor, but if you play it wrong, it verges on being minstrel-like.
Your costar Brandon T. Jackson told me there was a scene in the script where Osiris uses the N-word and that he said it went over the line.

ROBERT DOWNEY JR.: Brandon might have saved the movie that day.

BEN STILLER: For sure. We were rehearsing in Hawaii and we got to that scene and I said to him, "What do you think of this?" Brandon said, "This feels wrong." It was definitely a constant process of feeling it out.

http://www.ew. com/ew/article/ 0,,20217667_ 4,00.html

By the way, the interview NEVER ONCE brings up the subject of "Simple Jack." I'm sure the interview was done before this controversy broke, but again it is interesting that they were obviously concerned about being racially sensitive in their "satire" but didn't care a whit about being sensitive to the disabled community.

It just isnt funny to me, laughing at people because they are intellectually challenged. Words like retard belong in the same category with other hateful words, spic, faggot, nigger. They are HARD words to hear. Society has learned not to use these words for the most part, at least not casually. When will we learn that words are powerful enough to hurt? When will we stop laughing at the expense of others?

you may not be able to see the words under the title, they say "once upon a time there was a retard"
Please, think hard before you go to see this movie.

Sincerely, Michelle Harmon (Ciarra's mom)

Letter from Gail Williamson, DSALA of California.

I want to update you on the past and current status of the progress with the Dreamworks film "Tropic Thunder." Some of this may be redundant if you are fully in the loop reading the posts on the internet. This is also very long, but it should answer your questions as best I can and allow you to take your own action in response.

On Monday, July 28th I was made aware of an article in the Hollywood Reporter about "Tropic Thunder" a new film by and staring Ben Stiller due for release on August 13th. The article commented that the film included satire about people with intellectual disabilities. I was contacted by other individuals and organizations because of our past involvement together in media advocacy for individuals with DS and other intellectual disabilities. After a couple of days of research and many emails I was led to the website for the film with-in the film "Simple Jack" and my fears were confirmed.

On Thursday, July 31st I called Dreamworks to discuss the use of the "R" word and the inclusion of the character of "Simple Jack." As a result of that dialogue with the head of publicity I was invited to share my concerns in a meeting with DreamWorks Executives. I got back to my contacts from several national organizations representing people with disabilities and together we collaborated on what to present at the meeting. In response to my emails Tim Shriver of Special Olympics began discussions with Dreamworks as well. He joined us in our new coalition. Tim and I continued to make arrangements with DreamWorks.

On Wednesday, August 6th, as reported in the media, this newly formed coalition attended the meeting at DreamWorks. We were limited by DreamWorks on the number of groups attending, but assured that if following the meeting and our report back to our constituents that individual meetings could convene with individual organizations if they requested. My personal thanks to several of the organizations who graciously bowed out, (including NDSS and NDSC) not attended the meeting, so it could take place as planned.

From the community representing people with disabilities the meeting included:
Peter Berns: The Arc of the United States (present)
Tim Shriver: Special Olympics International (by phone)
Andy Imparato: American Association of People with Disabilities (present)
Gail Williamson: Down Syndrome Association of Los Angeles (present)
Richard Rosenberg: TASH (present)
Sarah Pripas: Autism Self Advocacy Network (present)
Joe Meadours: People First of California (present)
Loretta Claiborne: Special Olympics (by phone)
Julie Petty: Self Advocates Becoming Empowered (by phone)
Eddy Barbenell: Actor, Special Olympics (by phone)

The DreamWorks and Paramount Executives in the room included:
Stacey Snider, Co-Chairman/ CEO, DreamWorks
Jeff Small, COO, DreamWorks
Christine Birch, Marketing DreamWorks
Megan Colligan, Marketing Paramount/Vantage
Chip Sullivan, Head of Publicity DreamWorks
Josh Galper, Attorney brought on by DreamWorks

The meeting started out with comments from Self Advocates in the room and on the phone. They were eloquent. They spoke of their hard work for the dignity and self esteem that others take for granted. They also expressed that the "R" word is a "hate" word and the inclusion of it in the film would case them more isolation, marginalization and discrimination. Following that introduction we commented on why we were before them and although we understand that the film was not intended to make fun of individuals with intellectual disabilities, that in its attempt to make fun of actors and Hollywood it was creating insensitivity toward individuals with intellectual disabilities. We requested to be given the opportunity to screen the film in order to continue with our discussion and were told that we could on Friday, August 8th and Stacey agreed to a phone conference with us again after viewing. We then presented some actions we would like to see from DreamWorks in order to counteract the damage the film would do to those we represent.

The coalition demands included:

Film Screening: Arrange a film screening of "Tropic Thunder" for disability groups, paid for by the studio, in Los Angeles and in Washington, D.C. before the end of this week.

Public Apology: Make a public apology for the thoughtless use of the "R-word" and derogatory depictions of people with intellectual disability with a summary statement of the studio's intent to curtail its damaging effect and its commitment to specific next steps (as laid out below).

Film Editing: Completely eliminate all direct mention of or reference to "retard" jokes, disability euphemisms, and disrespectful depictions from the film before it is distributed to theatres and released to DVD.

Film Promotion: Eliminate all trailers, web postings, and ads that focus on "retard" jokes, disability euphemisms, and disrespectful depictions, and reference the "R word."

Specially Created Trailer: Fund and produce a trailer to air prior to each showing of "Tropic Thunder" that addresses the use of the R-word and the hurtful impact it has, even when people do not mean it that way. This same trailer would also be included within the DVD packaging for after market sales.

National Campaign: Create and fund a comprehensive national educational and advertising social campaign to eliminate the pejorative use of the word retard from use in everyday language, and more importantly create a world of dignity, acceptance and inclusion for people with intellectual disability. The campaign would be developed and vetted by an advisory council of representatives from the coalition. The campaign would also be designed to capitalize on social media and social networking to bring young people together and empower them as agents of change for the R-word campaign and involve appearances of those involved in the film's creation.

Film Studio Summit: Convene the heads of all the major studios to address the appropriate portrayal of people with intellectual in future films and television programs. The summit would also help reduce stigma surrounding one of the largest disability populations in the world while also raising the awareness of the extraordinary gifts and talents people with intellectual and developmental disabilities have to offer.

Stacey Snider did the talking for Dreamworks and seemed to be genuine in her concern over our presentation. She expressed that she wanted this to be the beginning of a discussion that would go on past this film and into the future. She also informed us that the entire film is over the top; that the violent scenes have blood spewing out like a "Saturday Night Live" skit, way beyond realistic. She said there is nothing in the film to make people think they really "mean it" about anything; but she did say that this information was not intended as an excuse. She asked for some time to absorb our requests and did inform us as to what they had already done after we first expressed our concerns.

The following information was provided as follow-up to the meeting by Chip Sullivan of Dreamworks:

At the outset, we want to reiterate three points:

(1) We sincerely regret having offended or hurt anyone with disabilities through the promotional material you have seen, and we have a full appreciation for why that material appeared insensitive. That is why we took immediate action, which we detail below, after hearing from you last Thursday.

(2) We view our discussion as the beginning of not just a conversation about this one movie but a longer-term relationship in which we can work together to make our studio even more sensitive about how people with disabilities are portrayed and to increase the numbers of those with disabilities in the film industry work force. Those are goals we share.

(3) To remind, the film is in no way meant to disparage or harm the image of individuals with disabilities. Instead, it takes a satirical look at Hollywood moviemakers and actors and their excesses, and makes its point by featuring inappropriate and over-the top-characters in ridiculous situations. The "R" rating limits those who can attend and how we market the film.

As you requested, here are steps we took to address your concerns even before we met yesterday:

� As soon as we heard from you, we responded immediately to engage in a dialogue and schedule our first meeting.
� We took down online material focusing on "Simple Jack," including an entire website devoted to the fake movie and images in a cross-promotional website at www.Tugg Speedman.com.
� We decided not to market the movie using "Simple Jack" images or references in television, radio, or print advertising.
� We excised images and references to "Simple Jack" in two promotional television programs slated to air on E! and Comedy Central about the making of "Tropic Thunder" that had already gone out the door.
As promised, we will make the movie available to be screened by each of you on Friday, August 8 or Monday, August 11. (We were told in the meeting that it would be on Friday, this Monday date is new to me.)

Once again, we thank all of you for taking the time to share your thoughts with us, and we see great potential for us to work together to improve the film industry's creative and work environment for people with disabilities in the future.

END OF DREAMWORKS STATEMENT

Now, some of my thoughts on all this.

My concerns focus on what the message from character "Simple Jack" will take to a segment of the community. Yes it is an R rated film. But everyone over the age of 17 is not responsible, understanding and inclusive of individuals with intellectual disabilities and we know that children under the age of 17 view R rated films.

As for being "equal opportunity offenders;" something the first rep from DreamWorks told me when he took my message for Chip. I requested a count of all the references to the word "Retard" and its derogatory euphuisms in the film. Along with the same for the "N" word and "Faggot" since Chip informed me that they make fun of these groups as well, and these are the names equal to "Retard" in the community I represent. Chip told me that was a reasonable request although he did not follow through on it. No matter what those numbers might have come out to be, being equal is still not the luxury of people with intellectual disabilities on any other playing field to begin with.

I am sure there are many employees at DreamWorks who are Black or Gay, how many employees are there with intellectual disabilities? There are individuals with intellectual disabilities who have skills and would like to be employed by DreamWorks. There are supported work programs that would be happy to work with DreamWorks to bring in employees who have been proven to be some of the best. Check out the mail room at ABC/Disney, talk to SAG about the "Workabilty" program, and check out the students at "Inclusion Films" in Burbank who are training to work in the film making business. This would be closer to equal, if people with intellectual disabilities were employed at DreamWorks.

I am concerned about people with Down syndrome even though they are not identified in the movie. The face of DS is the face of intellectual disability to the general public. I work with productions that assist in casting people with DS when they want their viewing public to know that the character has an intellectual disability. People with DS are easy targets everyday while just minding their own business because their face announces their disability. I can imagine my own son being called "Simple Jack" or "Full Retard" by someone "vulgar" as my son Blair who has DS refers to people who use this language.

I believe one of my greatest sorrows over the impact this film might make is in regards to the pre-diagnosis of DS being given to expectant parents. With the recent "American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology" guidelines in 2007 calling for every expectant mother be offered a screening for genetic differences including DS, I have the opportunity to talk with parents who are trying to make a decision to choose to continue their pregnancy or not. Many who consider terminating their pregnancies do so because of the fear of how society will treat their child and their family. We are at a reported 90% termination rate in Los Angeles as it is.

I know without a doubt that "Tropic Thunder" will contribute to the verbal abuse expressed toward individuals with intellectual disabilities and I know that there will be pregnancies that will be terminated because of the outcome from these images. I am deeply saddened this film will rob people of the joy I have found in my life being the mother of Blair and the Executive Director of the Down Syndrome Association of Los Angeles.

HERE IS SOME INFORMATION SO YOU MAY USE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH YOUR OWN ACTION IN REAGARDS TO "TROPIC THUNDER."

The film will premiere on Monday, August 11th in LA; the information I have is as follows:

Monday, August 11th, 2008

Press Check-in begins at: 5:00PM

Arrivals begin at 6:00PM

Screening begins promptly at 7:30PM

MANN VILLAGE THEATRE

961 Broxton AveWestwood, CA 90024

WHO: Cast members and filmmakers attending include: Ben Stiller, Jack Black, Robert Downey Jr., Bill Hader, Danny McBride, Steve Coogan, Nick Nolte, Jay Baruchel, Brandon T Jackson, Matthew McConaughey, Justin Theroux (Co-Writer and Producer), Etan Cohen (Writer), Stuart Cornfeld (Producer), Eric McLeod (Producer)

Other celebrities attending include: Jamie Foxx, Tobey McGuire,Randy Jackson, Jennifer Love Hewitt, JJ Abrams, Jon Voigt, JasonBateman, William Shatner, Jeanne Tripplehorn, Terri Hatcher, Lisa Kudrow, Jerry Stiller, Alicia Silverstone, Chris Hemsworth,Zachary Quinto, Jay Roach, John Hamburg, Wilmer Valderrama, BradSilberling, Amy Breneman, Nigel Lythgoe, Christine Taylor

Also if you would like to reach anyone of the people at DreamWorks, Paramount/Vantage or Ben Stiller with your concerns, their names are above and below are the main contacts for them.

DreamWorks
100 Universal City Plaza, Bldg. 5121, Universal City, CA 91608
818-733-7000

Paramount/Vantage
5555 Melrose Ave., Ball/Lasky Bldgs., Los Angeles, CA 90038
323-956-2000

Ben Stiller, Writer/Director/ Producer
Read Hour Films, 629 N. La Brea, Los Angeles, CA 90036
323-602-5000

As I am ready to send this email at 11:45 AM on Friday, August 8th we have not recieved any information from DreamWorks on a screening. I called Chip Sullivan's office this morning and was told he was in a meeting. I have yet to hear from him to notify the groups who were represented in the meeting about a screening that we were originally promisied today.

I would encourage you to let your voice heard!

In support of our loved ones!
Gail Williamson
Executive Director
Down Syndrome Association of Los Angeles.

Contact Information

~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~

phone: 818-242-7871

~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~

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#2137

From: Joan Francis <access2narnia@...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:27 pm
Subject: Call for Action by VIEWERS of Tropic Thunder Screening!!!

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National Down Syndrome Congress

August 10, 2008

Dear Friends,

I am taking the unusual step of contacting you over the weekend, because we
have a lot of work to do and a short time in which to do it.

On Friday, our Resource Specialist, Sue Joe, and I attended a special
screening of DreamWorks new film, "Tropic Thunder". Journalist Pat Bauer
also attended the screening and reports on the contents of the film on her
blog, www.patriciaebauer. com
<http://rs6.net/ tn.jsp?e= 001rw5W617Z7FtS7 lzywkpvE- wxl8myUG5gmBQC2N CHu0nZaI4L
Y7rApwUtHpxqu- bIBNPRN4lvpaRqQj 5HNBQi5GrNz1nLIl ON6tx3otrXXvH1WS en9xEQwLr2kmM5
ZhsnMQAJeMSdR2Xhm_ BcB6ysy34Bqgyyzc D2vnjgQMXVFDUlB1 BGdoxfkNb1x1knwU PYbPSi65Tm
V9o=> . So far, we are the only members of the nationwide disability
community who have seen the film, though more screenings are planned for
Monday for leaders in other cities.

To say this film is offensive is an understatement. For me, watching this
film felt like sitting through an assault.

The National Down Syndrome Congress is a founding member of a coalition of
disability-rights organizations who have been in discussion together -- and
with DreamWorks -- about this film. Now that we have seen this movie, there
is no doubt but that we must come together to fight what has been
characterized as damaging and hurtful hate speech.

Members of the Down Syndrome Association of Los Angeles, led by Gail
Williamson, will be among the local and national representatives providing
informational leafleting and picketing at the Hollywood premiere of this
film on Monday. However, we need your help.

If you are in Southern California and can get to Los Angeles on Monday,
please contact Gail at gail@....

If you cannot make it on Monday, please start planning for Wednesday's
nationwide premiere by polling your members for those who might be able to
show up at one or more theatres in your area that day to share our message
that movies like "Tropic Thunder" do cause harm, both emotionally and by
giving insensitive individuals new ways to taunt children and adults with
intellectual disabilities. It would be best to have a large turnout at one
theatre than to have one or two people at many, and it is important to
involve self advocates.

Lest you think the movie is so ridiculous that no one will take it
seriously, Josh Tyler, Editor-in-Chief of CinemaBlend, has already given the
film a glowing review, noting that his "current favorite" quote, "You never
go full retard," comes from the film.

On Monday morning, we will provide information gathered from various
coalition members, to use in your efforts.

In Solidarity,

David Tolleson
<http://ih.constantc ontact.com/ fs074/1101343243 561/img/29. jpg?a=1102201754 37
0>
David Tolleson

National Down Syndrome Congress

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#2136

From: "my_special_son2" <my_special_son2@...>
Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 4:36 pm
Subject: Re: File - Roll Call-Check In

my_special_son2

Offline

We're spending the summer in Las Vegas, NV and Dream Therapies is
here.

But we do therapeutic riding at Stepping Stone Stables in Pikeville,
NC back home.  It is a family run place -- very nice folks -- Melanie
and Heath Nix - 919-736-1725.

There is also a place in Greenville, NC called Rocking Horse Ranch,
http://www.rhrnc.com/.  I have no experience with them as they are
further away from where we live.

I wish her luck with this rewarding endeavor,
Lisa
--- In cerebralpalsy@yahoogroups.com, Debra Marasco-McNulty
<debraphp@...> wrote:
>
> Dream Therapies in NC?� My sister lives there and my niece is a
horseback riding instructor who is young and very interested in this
type of therapy.
>
> Debra M-MC (mom to Jason, age 31, micro cp, spastic quad, trach, g-
tube)
>
> --- On Sat, 8/2/08, my_special_son2 <my_special_son2@...> wrote:
> From: my_special_son2 <my_special_son2@...>
> Subject: [cerebralpalsy] Re: File - Roll Call-Check In
> To: cerebralpalsy@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, August 2, 2008, 12:26 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>             Castle and other group members,
>
> My son Joshua is now 4 1/2 and has been having a great summer.
>
>
>
> We live in NC but are spending the entire summer in Las Vegas, NV
>
> where my husband is working temporarily.
>
>
>
> Joshua has had the opportunity to take therapeutic riding through
>
> Dream Therapies twice a week and has been able to ramp up speech
>
> therapy from once a week to 3x/week at Speech Therapy Center of
>
> Excellence.  He is starting on a PECS system and seems to be taking
>
> to it very well.
>
>
>
> Combat crawling is still his primary means of mobility, but he is
>
> attempting to creep some and is prop sitting on his own (and his
>
> protective responses have improved greatly).
>
>
>
> He is drinking most of his drinks from a straw now, but I do cave
in
>
> and allow a bottle for catchup every once in a while.
>
>
>
> The biggest thing is that his older sister (6 1/2) has taken more
of
>
> an interest in interacting with him.  It warms my husband and mine
>
> hearts to see her act lovingly towards her brother.  She went
through
>
> a phase after her baby sister was born where she disliked her
brother
>
> (once she realized that he couldn't interact with her the same way
as
>
> her sister).  But she's turned around and now loves making him
laugh,
>
> giving him kisses, and helping him out.
>
>
>
> Hope everyone else is having a great summer!
>
>
>
> Lisa
>
> (mom to Joshua, 4 1/2 yr old former 26 weeker, with CP,
>
> Hydrocephalus, CVI, and profound cognitive delays; my happy combat
>
> crawling mugga bugga)
>
> --- In cerebralpalsy@ yahoogroups. com, cerebralpalsy@ yahoogroups.
com
>
> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > How is everyone doing?  Please take a second to give us a
update.
>
> Let us know if there are any new milestones your child has
reached.
>
> Anything new in your life.  Also remember to post a link to your
>
> personal website.
>
> >
>
> > Thanks!
>
> > Castle
>
> > Group Owner
>
> >
>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (142)

#2135

From: Debra Marasco-McNulty <debraphp@...>
Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 1:54 am
Subject: Re: Re: File - Roll Call-Check In

Offline

Dream Therapies in NC? My sister lives there and my niece is a horseback riding instructor who is young and very interested in this type of therapy.

Debra M-MC (mom to Jason, age 31, micro cp, spastic quad, trach, g-tube)

--- On Sat, 8/2/08, my_special_son2 <my_special_son2@...> wrote:

From: my_special_son2 <my_special_son2@...>
Subject: [cerebralpalsy] Re: File - Roll Call-Check In
To: cerebralpalsy@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, August 2, 2008, 12:26 PM

Castle and other group members,
My son Joshua is now 4 1/2 and has been having a great summer.

We live in NC but are spending the entire summer in Las Vegas, NV
where my husband is working temporarily.

Joshua has had the opportunity to take therapeutic riding through
Dream Therapies twice a week and has been able to ramp up speech
therapy from once a week to 3x/week at Speech Therapy Center of
Excellence. He is starting on a PECS system and seems to be taking
to it very well.

Combat crawling is still his primary means of mobility, but he is
attempting to creep some and is prop sitting on his own (and his
protective responses have improved greatly).

He is drinking most of his drinks from a straw now, but I do cave in
and allow a bottle for catchup every once in a while.

The biggest thing is that his older sister (6 1/2) has taken more of
an interest in interacting with him. It warms my husband and mine
hearts to see her act lovingly towards her brother. She went through
a phase after her baby sister was born where she disliked her brother
(once she realized that he couldn't interact with her the same way as
her sister). But she's turned around and now loves making him laugh,
giving him kisses, and helping him out.

Hope everyone else is having a great summer!

Lisa
(mom to Joshua, 4 1/2 yr old former 26 weeker, with CP,
Hydrocephalus, CVI, and profound cognitive delays; my happy combat
crawling mugga bugga)
--- In cerebralpalsy@ yahoogroups. com, cerebralpalsy@ yahoogroups. com
wrote:
>
>
> How is everyone doing? Please take a second to give us a update.
Let us know if there are any new milestones your child has reached.
Anything new in your life. Also remember to post a link to your
personal website.
>
> Thanks!
> Castle
> Group Owner
>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (142)

#2134

From: Joan Francis <access2narnia@...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2008 3:29 am
Subject: Re: Fw: Disability Community response to "Tropic Thunder" Offense

Offline

--- On Sun, 8/3/08, Patti Murphy <atty4people@...> wrote:

From: Patti Murphy <atty4people@...>
Subject: Fw: Disability Community response to "Tropic Thunder" Offense
To: "Patti Murphy" <access2narnia@...>
Date: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 6:16 PM

From iep_guide yahoo group:

Coalition forming response to movie "Tropic Thunder" use of word "re

Posted by: "Karen Scallan" kscallan@... dsagno

Sun Aug 3, 2008 7:42 am (PDT)

Coalition Formulating Response to "Tropic Thunder"
Representatives from the NDSC, along with other disability rights groups including Alliance for Inclusion in the Arts, American Association of People with Disabilities, ARC/UCP, Autistic Self Advocacy Network, Special Olympics, and TASH, met today with Down Syndrome Association of Los Angeles Executive Director Gail Williamson to discuss a combined response to the upcoming DreamWorks Studio film, "Tropic Thunder". As DreamWorks has started to release more information about the film, concerns have mounted (see Pat Bauer's blog: http://www.patricia ebauer.com/ 2008/08/01/ once-upon- a-time/). NDSC and its partner organizations will release a press statement within the next few days. We also hope to meet with DreamWorks executives to discuss our concerns. As we learn more, and a community-wide response is determined, we will let you know.

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)

#2133

From: Kristin Kunie <krismatal@...>
Date: Sun Aug 3, 2008 9:17 pm
Subject: Re: Teen with CP Starved to Death Under CPS Watch!

Offline

This is disgusting!! Why do people do things like this?! She was just a little girl! I think all the time about what my almost 11 year old son is thinking. He can't talk or anything... When he was in the hospital back in 2006, we would have to leave and go home (He was in Baltimore. We live about 2 hours away)... And I would just cry thinking about what he MIGHT be thinking!! Like, "Where's mommy? Why am I here? Why can't I go home?" How could this person just let this beautiful little girl starve to death in her own filth? People disgust me... If people can't take care of their kids... disabled or not... just put them up for adoption... Something besides what this person did... I know there are plenty of kind-hearted people that would have loved to share their lives with this little girl... So sad...

Kristin

August 1, 2008

Starved, disabled girl was failed at every turn

By KATHY MATHESON
Associated Press Writer

For days before Danieal Kelly died in a fetid, airless room � made stifling hot by a midsummer heat wave � the bedridden teenager begged for something to drink until she could muster only one word: water.

Unable to help herself because of her cerebral palsy, she wasted away from malnutrition and maggot-infested bedsores that ate her flesh. She died alone on a putrid mattress in her mother's home, the floor covered in feces. She was 14 but weighed just 42 pounds.

The nightmare of forced starvation and infection that killed Danieal while she was under the protection of the city's human services agency is documented in a 258-page grand jury report released this week that charges nine people � her parents, four social workers and three family friends � in her ghastly death.

The report describes a mother, Andrea Kelly, who was embarrassed by her disabled daughter and didn't want to touch her, take her out in public, change her diapers or make sure she had enough fluids. It portrays Daniel Kelly, the father who once had custody of Danieal, as having no interest in raising her.

And it accuses the city Department of Human Services of being "uncaring and incompetent. "

"It was this indifference that helped kill Danieal Kelly," an angry District Attorney Lynne Abraham said. "How is it possible for this to have happened?"

The report should "outrage the entire Philadelphia community" and bring about "earth-shattering, cataclysmic changes" at the Department of Human Services, Abraham said.

Andrea Kelly, 39, the only defendant charged with murder, was ordered held Friday without bail. The social workers � suspected of falsifying home visits and progress reports in the case � face charges ranging from child endangerment to involuntary manslaughter. The family friends are accused of lying to the grand jury about the girl's condition before her death.

None of the lawyers for any of the defendants had any immediate comment.

Human Services Commissioner Anne Marie Ambrose, in office only a month, said Thursday that she is intent on improving child safety and worker accountability in an agency that has repeatedly been accused of failing to protect children.

Late Friday, the city announced the resignation of Assistant Health Commissioner Carmen Paris. The grand jury had accused Paris of interfering in the investigation of the girl's death while she was acting health commissioner, but found insufficient evidence to charge her with obstruction of justice.

The report on Danieal's death in August 2006 documents a downward spiral from the early years that she spent in Arizona with her father and his girlfriend.

Though Danieal attended special-needs classes only sporadically, a school report described her as an active learner and "one of the sweetest students ever enrolled in this program." But allegations of parental neglect soon surfaced, and following Daniel Kelly's breakup with his girlfriend in 2001, Danieal never again attended school.

Daniel Kelly and his children moved to Philadelphia in 2003. He eventually asked his estranged wife to move in, even though she had several other children and he knew she was incapable of caring for Danieal, authorities say. He then moved out.

"Daniel Kelly was well aware what deserting his daughter meant to her safety and welfare," the grand jury report said. "He just did not care."

The Department of Human Services received at least five reports of Danieal being mistreated between 2003 and 2005. All described a "helpless child sitting unattended, unkempt and unwashed, in a small stroller in her own urine and feces," her screams ignored by her mother, the grand jury report said. The stroller, which served as a wheelchair, apparently never left the house.

Agency employee Dana Poindexter, assigned to investigate, also ignored Danieal, authorities say. Already having been suspended after a 3-week-old baby died on his watch in 2002, Poindexter continued his "slovenly, neglectful and dangerously reckless work habits" after being assigned the Kelly case, the grand jury said. He did not file a single report, authorities said.

The Kellys finally were assigned help from a private agency in 2005. Employee Julius Murray was required to visit the family twice a week, but authorities believe he may have come to the house only once � to have Andrea Kelly sign predated forms attesting to future visits.

The grand jury report said Laura Sommerer, a city social worker, failed to hold the now-defunct company accountable when, months later, Danieal still was not enrolled in school or receiving medical care.

And after Danieal died, authorities say, company director Mickal Kamuvaka held a "forgery fest" in her office where she had employees "concoct almost a year's worth of false progress reports."

But authorities say Andrea Kelly, whose other children are now in foster care, is primarily responsible for her daughter's death.

The report said she was confronted repeatedly by her own mother, uncle, friends and even two of her sons about Danieal's deteriorating health. She would lie or put them off by saying she would seek help, or banish them from the house, authorities say.

In the meantime, the report said, she entertained friends, attended classes and fed her other children.

"This behavior indicates that Andrea Kelly did not merely allow Danieal to die," the report said. "She may have even wanted her disabled daughter to die."

When an ambulance responded to a 911 call for Danieal on Aug. 4, 2006, the girl had been dead for several hours. Authorities said she was so emaciated she looked like the victim of a concentration camp.

She had been lying on the filthy mattress for so long that her body outline was imprinted on it.

In this undated photo released by the Philadelphia Police Department, Andrea Kelly, the mother of Danieal Kelly, is shown. Andrea Kelly, 39, was charged with murder, involuntary manslaughter and endangering the welfare of children in connection with Danieal's starvation death on Aug. 4, 2006. (AP Photo/Philadelphia Police Department)

Danieal Kelly is seen in this undated photo released by the Philadelphia District Attorney's Office, Thursday, July 31, 2008. Thursday, nine people were charged in connection with Danieal's starvation death on Aug. 4, 2006 -- among them her parents and two social workers for the city Department of Human Services who were accused of neglecting the girl and then trying to cover their tracks. (AP Photo/Philadelphia District Attorney)

Danieal Kelly, center, is seen in this undated photo released by the Philadelphia District Attorney's Office, Thursday, July 31, 2008. Thursday, nine people were charged in connection with Danieal's starvation death on Aug. 4, 2006 -- among them her parents and two social workers for the city Department of Human Services who were accused of neglecting the girl and then trying to cover their tracks. (AP Photo/Philadelphia District Attorney)

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (2)

#2132

From: "my_special_son2" <my_special_son2@...>
Date: Sat Aug 2, 2008 7:26 pm
Subject: Re: File - Roll Call-Check In

my_special_son2

Offline

Castle and other group members,
My son Joshua is now 4 1/2 and has been having a great summer.

We live in NC but are spending the entire summer in Las Vegas, NV
where my husband is working temporarily.

Joshua has had the opportunity to take therapeutic riding through
Dream Therapies twice a week and has been able to ramp up speech
therapy from once a week to 3x/week at Speech Therapy Center of
Excellence.  He is starting on a PECS system and seems to be taking
to it very well.

Combat crawling is still his primary means of mobility, but he is
attempting to creep some and is prop sitting on his own (and his
protective responses have improved greatly).

He is drinking most of his drinks from a straw now, but I do cave in
and allow a bottle for catchup every once in a while.

The biggest thing is that his older sister (6 1/2) has taken more of
an interest in interacting with him.  It warms my husband and mine
hearts to see her act lovingly towards her brother.  She went through
a phase after her baby sister was born where she disliked her brother
(once she realized that he couldn't interact with her the same way as
her sister).  But she's turned around and now loves making him laugh,
giving him kisses, and helping him out.

Hope everyone else is having a great summer!

Lisa
(mom to Joshua, 4 1/2 yr old former 26 weeker, with CP,
Hydrocephalus, CVI, and profound cognitive delays; my happy combat
crawling mugga bugga)
--- In cerebralpalsy@yahoogroups.com, cerebralpalsy@yahoogroups.com
wrote:
>
>
> How is everyone doing?  Please take a second to give us a update.
Let us know if there are any new milestones your child has reached.
Anything new in your life.  Also remember to post a link to your
personal website.
>
> Thanks!
> Castle
> Group Owner
>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (142)

#2131

From: Joan Francis <access2narnia@...>
Date: Sat Aug 2, 2008 4:14 pm
Subject: Teen with CP Starved to Death Under CPS Watch!

Offline

August 1, 2008

Starved, disabled girl was failed at every turn

By KATHY MATHESON
Associated Press Writer

For days before Danieal Kelly died in a fetid, airless room � made stifling hot by a midsummer heat wave � the bedridden teenager begged for something to drink until she could muster only one word: water.

Unable to help herself because of her cerebral palsy, she wasted away from malnutrition and maggot-infested bedsores that ate her flesh. She died alone on a putrid mattress in her mother's home, the floor covered in feces. She was 14 but weighed just 42 pounds.

The nightmare of forced starvation and infection that killed Danieal while she was under the protection of the city's human services agency is documented in a 258-page grand jury report released this week that charges nine people � her parents, four social workers and three family friends � in her ghastly death.

The report describes a mother, Andrea Kelly, who was embarrassed by her disabled daughter and didn't want to touch her, take her out in public, change her diapers or make sure she had enough fluids. It portrays Daniel Kelly, the father who once had custody of Danieal, as having no interest in raising her.

And it accuses the city Department of Human Services of being "uncaring and incompetent."

"It was this indifference that helped kill Danieal Kelly," an angry District Attorney Lynne Abraham said. "How is it possible for this to have happened?"

The report should "outrage the entire Philadelphia community" and bring about "earth-shattering, cataclysmic changes" at the Department of Human Services, Abraham said.

Andrea Kelly, 39, the only defendant charged with murder, was ordered held Friday without bail. The social workers � suspected of falsifying home visits and progress reports in the case � face charges ranging from child endangerment to involuntary manslaughter. The family friends are accused of lying to the grand jury about the girl's condition before her death.

None of the lawyers for any of the defendants had any immediate comment.

Human Services Commissioner Anne Marie Ambrose, in office only a month, said Thursday that she is intent on improving child safety and worker accountability in an agency that has repeatedly been accused of failing to protect children.

Late Friday, the city announced the resignation of Assistant Health Commissioner Carmen Paris. The grand jury had accused Paris of interfering in the investigation of the girl's death while she was acting health commissioner, but found insufficient evidence to charge her with obstruction of justice.

The report on Danieal's death in August 2006 documents a downward spiral from the early years that she spent in Arizona with her father and his girlfriend.

Though Danieal attended special-needs classes only sporadically, a school report described her as an active learner and "one of the sweetest students ever enrolled in this program." But allegations of parental neglect soon surfaced, and following Daniel Kelly's breakup with his girlfriend in 2001, Danieal never again attended school.

Daniel Kelly and his children moved to Philadelphia in 2003. He eventually asked his estranged wife to move in, even though she had several other children and he knew she was incapable of caring for Danieal, authorities say. He then moved out.

"Daniel Kelly was well aware what deserting his daughter meant to her safety and welfare," the grand jury report said. "He just did not care."

The Department of Human Services received at least five reports of Danieal being mistreated between 2003 and 2005. All described a "helpless child sitting unattended, unkempt and unwashed, in a small stroller in her own urine and feces," her screams ignored by her mother, the grand jury report said. The stroller, which served as a wheelchair, apparently never left the house.

Agency employee Dana Poindexter, assigned to investigate, also ignored Danieal, authorities say. Already having been suspended after a 3-week-old baby died on his watch in 2002, Poindexter continued his "slovenly, neglectful and dangerously reckless work habits" after being assigned the Kelly case, the grand jury said. He did not file a single report, authorities said.

The Kellys finally were assigned help from a private agency in 2005. Employee Julius Murray was required to visit the family twice a week, but authorities believe he may have come to the house only once � to have Andrea Kelly sign predated forms attesting to future visits.

The grand jury report said Laura Sommerer, a city social worker, failed to hold the now-defunct company accountable when, months later, Danieal still was not enrolled in school or receiving medical care.

And after Danieal died, authorities say, company director Mickal Kamuvaka held a "forgery fest" in her office where she had employees "concoct almost a year's worth of false progress reports."

But authorities say Andrea Kelly, whose other children are now in foster care, is primarily responsible for her daughter's death.

The report said she was confronted repeatedly by her own mother, uncle, friends and even two of her sons about Danieal's deteriorating health. She would lie or put them off by saying she would seek help, or banish them from the house, authorities say.

In the meantime, the report said, she entertained friends, attended classes and fed her other children.

"This behavior indicates that Andrea Kelly did not merely allow Danieal to die," the report said. "She may have even wanted her disabled daughter to die."

When an ambulance responded to a 911 call for Danieal on Aug. 4, 2006, the girl had been dead for several hours. Authorities said she was so emaciated she looked like the victim of a concentration camp.

She had been lying on the filthy mattress for so long that her body outline was imprinted on it.

In this undated photo released by the Philadelphia Police Department, Andrea Kelly, the mother of Danieal Kelly, is shown. Andrea Kelly, 39, was charged with murder, involuntary manslaughter and endangering the welfare of children in connection with Danieal's starvation death on Aug. 4, 2006. (AP Photo/Philadelphia Police Department)

Danieal Kelly is seen in this undated photo released by the Philadelphia District Attorney's Office, Thursday, July 31, 2008. Thursday, nine people were charged in connection with Danieal's starvation death on Aug. 4, 2006 -- among them her parents and two social workers for the city Department of Human Services who were accused of neglecting the girl and then trying to cover their tracks. (AP Photo/Philadelphia District Attorney)

Danieal Kelly, center, is seen in this undated photo released by the Philadelphia District Attorney's Office, Thursday, July 31, 2008. Thursday, nine people were charged in connection with Danieal's starvation death on Aug. 4, 2006 -- among them her parents and two social workers for the city Department of Human Services who were accused of neglecting the girl and then trying to cover their tracks. (AP Photo/Philadelphia District Attorney)

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (2)

#2130

From: cerebralpalsy@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri Aug 1, 2008 7:58 am
Subject: File - Netiquette

cerebralpalsy@yahoogroups.com

A few things to remember....

-No advertisements allowed.  Please refrain from advertising your business.

-When relying to a post please remember to remove the fully quoted text
  from your message.  Remember to cut and paste only a few lines of relevant
  text from the message you are replying to.

-When replying to a digest sent to your email address please remember to
  delete all messages from the digest before sending the message to the group.

-ONLY send attachments or files when they are relevant to the topic of the
  group.

-Never open attachments from senders you do not know.

-Do not post in ALL CAPS it is hard to read and concidered "YELLING"
  in the online community.


Thank you,
Castle
Group Owner

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (49)

#2129

From: cerebralpalsy@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri Aug 1, 2008 7:58 am
Subject: File - Roll Call-Check In

cerebralpalsy@yahoogroups.com

How is everyone doing?  Please take a second to give us a update.  Let us know
if there are any new milestones your child has reached.  Anything new in your
life.  Also remember to post a link to your personal website.

Thanks!
Castle
Group Owner

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (142)

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