http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20091119/NEWS01/91119061/1009/news01/Former\
-firefighter-pleads-guilty-in-cyclist-shooting


Sent from Al's iPhone

Shutting down specific streets to car
traffic so bikes and others can take
over for a day.  I'm not sure what to
make of this.  Has anyone gone to Sunday
Streets in SF?  How was it?  People in
Sacramento and Los Angeles are working
on the same idea.

SF:

      http://sundaystreetssf.com/

Sacramento:

      http://www.bikeramento.org/2009/01/16/sac-sunday-streets/

Los Angeles:

     
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-guidefeature5-2009nov05,0,741500\
1.story


-R

The traffic helps Dougie because his bicycle has a hard time changing the
traffic lights.  He must wait for another vehicle to change the light, so when
there is less traffic, he must wait longer.  Not my guess, but that is because I
alway complain to Roseville Engineering when this happens to me.  Maybe Dougie
should make his voice heard in Boston.

Was this your guess Rich? It sounds like this was what you were thinking about
in regards to running the red.

~Greg

--- In bikingroseville@yahoogroups.com, Rich Wilson <wk633@...> wrote:
>
> Actually, I kind of like this, since it will hopefully educate a large number
of drivers as to the reason some cyclists go through red lights.  Assuming I've
got the answer, and I'm pretty sure I do.  In my submission, I requested that
when they discuss the answer, they point out that the number of cyclists to
adhere to all rules of the road is almost certainly greater than the percentage
of motor vehicle drivers who do the same.  Anyone who doubts that should try
driving the posted speed limit and see what happens :-)
>  No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare
> -- James Madison
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: kan7an <gcmack@...>
> To: bikingroseville@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, October 26, 2009 5:51:03 PM
> Subject: [bikingroseville] Car Talk Puzzler
>
>
> Good news: Car talk's puzzler involves bicycling.
> Check it out -
> http://www.cartalk. com/content/ puzzler/
> or listen to it here (segment 8)-
> http://www.cartalk. com/Radio/ WeeklyShow/ online.html
>
> Bad news: While setting up this new puzzler, they stated that Doug was one of
their city's few law-abiding cyclists; he signals, stops at all stop signs, and
even yields to pedestrians.  I wonder how the average Boston cyclist likes this
kind of review?
>
> Let me know if you entered an answer.  I have a guess, but will probably not
get around to entering it.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>

I like to see that the path is being used, and that moms with strollers
and small kids on bikes can also feel comfortable using the path. I know
that the path is primarily used for casual users, so I'm comfortable
just taking it nice and slow along there and enjoying the scenery.

But I find that many of the pedestrians on the trail have no clue that
this trail is shared with bikes. Often when I  ride that trail I find
the it completely blocked by totally clueless pedestrians taking up both
lanes. I have often seen toddlers meandering around the trail without
having a parent at arm's length.

Education is probably the best approach. Signs get missed easily, so
perhaps plenty of stenciled icons could be painted along the trail to
indicate that pedestrians should take the left lane (only one lane!),
face left and be aware of bikes, and icons for bikes to ride on the
right, to take it slow and watch for pedestrians.

Gary

--- In bikingroseville@yahoogroups.com, Greg Mack <gcmack@...> wrote:
>
> I have seen all of these except for the first one.  The earbud issue
is big,
> for I have approached people with my bell ringing, and still scared
the crud
> out of them, with the earbud user giving you "the look" of
incrimination.
>  The path has too many turns in it to be safe going very fast.  I
think
> speed limit signs could help.  I also think there could be more
mirrors
> around some of the worst turns, like the one under N. Sunrise Ave.
> Two other items I have seen was dog droppings on the trail (slippery
on
> turns), and motorized vehicles (mopeds, and a motorized scooter).  I
stopped
> the scooter, but never caught up to the mopeds.
>
> I like the trail patrol, but it would be a lot of work for a couple of
> people.  I think trying to educate most of the people would probably
be
> best.  Otherwise, deputize me, I'd volunteer if I got a taser ;)
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Dour, Mike mdour@... wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Hi David - I've heard from about 8 or 10 people over the past year,
with
> > differing perspectives on trail etiquette. Some of the viewpionts:
> >
> >    - Bicyclists going too fast and then yelling at families to get
out of
> >    the way, making it unenjoyable for families with young children.
This
> >    particular person expressed that they don't want Roseville's
trails to
> >    become like the American River Parkway (a raceway for bikes).
> >    - Bicyclists not calling out when passing; passing too fast/close
> >    - Pedesterians not paying attention; making sudden movements
across the
> >    trail; unable to hear approaching bicyclists because they are
wearing
> >    earbuds; not controlling their dogs, or having dogs on leashes
that are too
> >    long;
> >    - Pedestrians walking on the wrong side of the trail, with wrong
side
> >    for pedestrians being defined by some complainants as left side
and by
> >    others as the right side. These comments come not only from
bicyclists
> >    but also from other pedestrians who don't want to move from their
position.
> >
> > Each of the complaints involves at least 1 party who was not being
> > considerate of other trail users, whether it be a bicyclist or
pedestrian.
> > In fact, one of the complaints involved two inconsiderate parties
who were
> > both so stubborn that neither one would budge when approaching each
other on
> > the trail.
> >
> > The benefit of trail etiquette guidelines is that users will have a
clear
> > expectation for how they and others should act on Roseville's
> > trails. However, they won't necessarily get people to be considerate
of each
> > other, which may be the bigger challenge.
> >
> > City staff is kicking around a couple ideas on how to address this
> > challenge, one being a volunteer trail patrol. Any other ideas out
there?
> >
> > Thanks. Mike
> >
> > *Michael Dour*
> > *Alternative Transportation Analyst - Bikeways*
> > Public Works - Alternative Transportation
> > City of Roseville
> > 401 Vernon St.
> > Roseville, CA 95678
> > (916) 746-1304
> > (916) 746-1333 fax
> > www.roseville.ca.us/pw
> > [image: City of Roseville]
> >
> >  ------------------------------
> > *From:* bikingroseville@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
> > bikingroseville@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Biking Roseville
> > *Sent:* Saturday, October 17, 2009 6:39 PM
> > *To:* bikingroseville@yahoogroups.com
> > *Subject:* Re: [bikingroseville] Harding to Royer trail segment
opens
> >
> >
> >
> >  Hi Mike,
> >
> > Can you describe these user conflicts? I'd like to hope that
cyclists are
> > showing the utmost consideration for other trail users out on
Roseville
> > trails given how hard we fight for the same consideration from
motorists out
> > on the roadways.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > David
> >
> >
> >
> >  ------------------------------
> > *From:* "Dour, Mike" mdour@...
> > *To:* Rob F bikesafenorcal@...; bikingroseville@yahoogroups.com
> > *Sent:* Fri, October 16, 2009 10:17:28 AM
> > *Subject:* RE: [bikingroseville] Harding to Royer trail segment
opens
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Rob -  Thanks for the email. I understand your concerns with more
trail
> > users since over the past year I've been receiving more comments
about the
> > potential for user conflicts.
> >
> > The City standard for Class I trails is 10' paved, with 3' foot
shoulders
> > on each side. The shoulders are designed so that 2' is improved with
AB or
> > DG, and the other 1' of shoulder is dirt. The 3' shoulder width is a
> > relatively new design... prior to 2007 the City standard was for 2'
> > shoulders. Also, the DG requirement is new as of 2004. Prior to 2004
we did
> > not use DG for our shoulders. Please note that this exceeds Caltrans
> > Standards for Class I trails, which is 8' paved with 2' shoulders on
each
> > side.
> >
> > The design work for Miners Ravine started in 2003. The Environmental
Impact
> > Report conducted in 2004 evaluated a shoulder design at 2' wide.
When the
> > standard changed in 2007, we considered changing the design of the
Harding
> > to Royer project. However, since the rest of the Miners Ravine Trail
is
> > designed under the old standard and since the EIR evaluated impacts
under
> > the old standard, we chose to leave the design as originally
planned, which
> > is basically the 2004 standard.
> >
> > As I noted above, the City has been receiving comments about user
conflicts
> > out on the trail. We will be conducting public outreach beginning
this
> > winter on how to address this concern. We expect the result of this
effort
> > will be enhanced trail use/etiquette guidelines. If, after
implementing new
> > trail use guidelines and other feasible measures, we continue to see
issues,
> > then maybe we'll have to look into other measures such as shoulder
widening.
> > If we do that, we would want to widen shoulders for the entire
length of the
> > trail, not just a 1-mile segment out of 6 miles of trail. Any
decision to
> > take such action would be made in consideration of the relative
costs and
> > benefits.
> >
> > Please let me know if you have any further questions. Thanks, mike
> >
> >
> >
> >  ------------------------------
> > *From:* Rob F [mailto:bikesafenor cal@yahoo. com]
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 13, 2009 4:12 PM
> > *To:* bikingroseville@ yahoogroups. com; Dour, Mike
> > *Subject:* RE: [bikingroseville] Harding to Royer trail segment
opens
> >
> >    I've had the opportunity over the past several months to spend
some
> > time on Roseville's Class I bike paths and it's been great to see so
many
> > people out there using the trail system... cyclists, walkers,
runners, etc.
> > However, the Class I facilities that I've used in the City do not
appear to
> > meet the City's standards for graded areas adjacent to the pavement
and this
> > means that more and more trail users are squeezed into the paved
space
> > creating increase potential for user conflicts.  Based on a sneak
peek at
> > the new Harding to Royer segment, it looks like the required
shoulders
> > haven't been installed there, either.
> >
> > The City's standards require a minimum of 3 feet graded shoulders
adjacent
> > to each side of the pavement, with at least one side having
decomposed
> > granite.  I'm concerned that this is an important design feature
that is
> > being overlooked (and I sure hope construction contractors aren't
being paid
> > to construct the shoulders and simply not being required to put them
in).
> > Is it possible for someone with the City to explain why the
requisite
> > shoulders are not being installed or, better yet, let's just get the
trails
> > constructed consistent with the City's standards.
> >
> > -Rob
> >
> > --- On *Mon, 9/28/09, Dour, Mike mdour@roseville. ca.us>* wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Dour, Mike mdour@roseville. ca.us>
> > Subject: RE: [bikingroseville] Harding to Royer trail segment opens
> > To: bikingroseville@ yahoogroups. com
> > Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 7:56 AM
> >
> >    Hi folks - A kindly reminder that the trail is not officially
open yet
> > because we have to install signs, striping, fencing and a safety
railing.
> > I'll post an email when the public is invited to enjoy the trail.
Thanks
> > everyone! Mike
> >
> >  ------------------------------
> > *From:* bikingroseville@ yahoogroups. com
[mailto:bikingroseville@yahoogroups.com]
> > *On Behalf Of *Biking Roseville
> > *Sent:* Sunday, September 27, 2009 8:17 AM
> > *To:* BikingRoseville Group
> > *Subject:* [bikingroseville] Harding to Royer trail segment opens
> >
> >
> > Hi Folks,
> >
> > I rode the new Harding to Royer trail segment this morning. It runs
between
> > Folsom St. and the Harding to East St. segment of the Miner's Ravine
trail.
> > It's beautiful. Anyone else try it?
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

• Bicyclists going too fast and then yelling at families to get out of the way, making it unenjoyable for families with young children. This particular person expressed that they don't want Roseville's trails to become like the American River Parkway (a raceway for bikes).
• Bicyclists not calling out when passing; passing too fast/close
• Pedesterians not paying attention; making sudden movements across the trail; unable to hear approaching bicyclists because they are wearing earbuds; not controlling their dogs, or having dogs on leashes that are too long;
• Pedestrians walking on the wrong side of the trail, with wrong side for pedestrians being defined by some complainants as left side and by others as the right side. These comments come not only from bicyclists but also from other pedestrians who don't want to move from their position.

Michael Dour
Alternative Transportation Analyst - Bikeways
Public Works - Alternative Transportation
City of Roseville
401 Vernon St.
Roseville, CA 95678
(916) 746-1304
(916) 746-1333 fax
www.roseville.ca.us/pw

I also agree that roundabouts are a great way to reduce wait, and increase
throughput. However, I think that the problem with roundabouts is that most
people in this area do not have a lot of experience using them.  When people do
not know how to behave within a roundabout, it makes them nervous and can cause
accidents, or they go too fast, to slow, or they stop.  Once people are more
comfortable with the way to use one, it will be a great improvement.
--- In bikingroseville@yahoogroups.com, Bob Shanteau <RMShant@...> wrote:
>
> I have an opportunity today to influence a Caltrans decision about the
> use of roundabouts. I have heard differing stories about whether
> roundabouts are hard for bicyclists to use. Personally, I believe that
> roundabouts are preferable to stop signs. What do others think? Have any
> organizations adopted a formal policy?
>
> Bob Shanteau
> Transportation Engineering Liaison
> California Association of Bicycling Organizations
>

I have an opportunity today to influence a Caltrans decision about the
use of roundabouts. I have heard differing stories about whether
roundabouts are hard for bicyclists to use. Personally, I believe that
roundabouts are preferable to stop signs. What do others think? Have any
organizations adopted a formal policy?

Bob Shanteau
Transportation Engineering Liaison
California Association of Bicycling Organizations