My father-in-law has not been diagnosed with AD, but my husband, Tom,

and I know he is in early stages. His mother died from it, and he has

all the symptoms: short-term memory problems, trouble finding the words

he wants to use and, most of all, nasty personality changes! He has

become impossible to be around. Nothing pleases him. He is rude to

strangers in public, and belligerant and verbally abusive to his

children. He misplaces something, and then accuses Tom of taking it. He

expects Tom to drop everything (including job responsibilities) to come

running when he wants something. If Tom doesn't do it, he explodes,

calls him all kinds of names and threatens to cut him out of the will.



Several weeks ago, Dad had a third heart attack (he's also had two

strokes). He was borderline being able to live alone in his own home

before. He has little use of his right arm and wears a brace on the

right leg. Now he is weaker than ever, and his mental deterioration has

progressed in recent weeks. We feel he is no longer capable of living

alone. He refuses to go to an assisted-living community, so Tom has been

trying to find a live-in companion. Now Dad says he won't pay anyone to

come in (he can afford it, but he's tight). He wants to find "some

homeless person" to move in and travel around the country with him. He

also continues to drive, despite his physical and mental impairments,

and we know that's a danger. We're at our wits end.



We know that legally we can't force him to do anything without having

him declared incompetent, and we know that is difficult to do. The

problem is he is borderline. He still has periods, particularly early in

the day, when he is somewhat rational. He can dress and bathe himself,

but little else. He can't cook, do laundry or anything like that.



The bottom line is he shouldn't be driving or living alone, but what can

we do? Any advice?



Karen

Karen,



Does your husband have POA?  Seems to me that there are two things you can

do right now:

         1.  Be sure you get the legal stuff taken care of, if possible.

(POA etc/)

         2.  Insist he get a physical and get a diagnosis.  It could be

something treatable.



Right now, without these two things, it's almost impossible to operate or

even protect him, and basically, protection for him and others he might hurt

while driving are your main concerns.  See an Elder law attorney and get his

advice, and try to get the physical.



Sue

At 11:35 AM 2/15/98 -0500, you wrote:

>

>My father-in-law has not been diagnosed with AD, but my husband, Tom,

>and I know he is in early stages. His mother died from it, and he has

>all the symptoms: short-term memory problems, trouble finding the words

>he wants to use and, most of all, nasty personality changes! He has

>become impossible to be around. Nothing pleases him. He is rude to

>strangers in public, and belligerant and verbally abusive to his

>children. He misplaces something, and then accuses Tom of taking it. He

>expects Tom to drop everything (including job responsibilities) to come

>running when he wants something. If Tom doesn't do it, he explodes,

>calls him all kinds of names and threatens to cut him out of the will.

>

>Several weeks ago, Dad had a third heart attack (he's also had two

>strokes). He was borderline being able to live alone in his own home

>before. He has little use of his right arm and wears a brace on the

>right leg. Now he is weaker than ever, and his mental deterioration has

>progressed in recent weeks. We feel he is no longer capable of living

>alone. He refuses to go to an assisted-living community, so Tom has been

>trying to find a live-in companion. Now Dad says he won't pay anyone to

>come in (he can afford it, but he's tight). He wants to find "some

>homeless person" to move in and travel around the country with him. He

>also continues to drive, despite his physical and mental impairments,

>and we know that's a danger. We're at our wits end.

>

>We know that legally we can't force him to do anything without having

>him declared incompetent, and we know that is difficult to do. The

>problem is he is borderline. He still has periods, particularly early in

>the day, when he is somewhat rational. He can dress and bathe himself,

>but little else. He can't cook, do laundry or anything like that.

>

>The bottom line is he shouldn't be driving or living alone, but what can

>we do? Any advice?

>

>Karen

>

>

Sue,



Thanks for responding. Tom's name is on his father's asset accounts as co-owner,

but he does not have POA. And the man is so irrational right now, I doubt he

would agree to it. As for the physical, he has had one by the family doctor. The

doctor's attitude was "Let's not bother with tests. So what if he has AD." True

story. And we can't get Dad to see another doctor because, of course, he says

there is nothing wrong with him. So we're stuck.



Karen



Sue Petrovski wrote:



> Karen,

>

> Does your husband have POA?  Seems to me that there are two things you can

> do right now:

>         1.  Be sure you get the legal stuff taken care of, if possible.

> (POA etc/)

>         2.  Insist he get a physical and get a diagnosis.  It could be

> something treatable.

>

> Right now, without these two things, it's almost impossible to operate or

> even protect him, and basically, protection for him and others he might hurt

> while driving are your main concerns.  See an Elder law attorney and get his

> advice, and try to get the physical.

>

> Sue

> At 11:35 AM 2/15/98 -0500, you wrote:

> >

> >My father-in-law has not been diagnosed with AD, but my husband, Tom,

> >and I know he is in early stages. His mother died from it, and he has

> >all the symptoms: short-term memory problems, trouble finding the words

> >he wants to use and, most of all, nasty personality changes! He has

> >become impossible to be around. Nothing pleases him. He is rude to

> >strangers in public, and belligerant and verbally abusive to his

> >children. He misplaces something, and then accuses Tom of taking it. He

> >expects Tom to drop everything (including job responsibilities) to come

> >running when he wants something. If Tom doesn't do it, he explodes,

> >calls him all kinds of names and threatens to cut him out of the will.

> >

> >Several weeks ago, Dad had a third heart attack (he's also had two

> >strokes). He was borderline being able to live alone in his own home

> >before. He has little use of his right arm and wears a brace on the

> >right leg. Now he is weaker than ever, and his mental deterioration has

> >progressed in recent weeks. We feel he is no longer capable of living

> >alone. He refuses to go to an assisted-living community, so Tom has been

> >trying to find a live-in companion. Now Dad says he won't pay anyone to

> >come in (he can afford it, but he's tight). He wants to find "some

> >homeless person" to move in and travel around the country with him. He

> >also continues to drive, despite his physical and mental impairments,

> >and we know that's a danger. We're at our wits end.

> >

> >We know that legally we can't force him to do anything without having

> >him declared incompetent, and we know that is difficult to do. The

> >problem is he is borderline. He still has periods, particularly early in

> >the day, when he is somewhat rational. He can dress and bathe himself,

> >but little else. He can't cook, do laundry or anything like that.

> >

> >The bottom line is he shouldn't be driving or living alone, but what can

> >we do? Any advice?

> >

> >Karen

> >

> >

Karen,



I can only advise you to do something, for if it is AD it isn't going to get

any better.  If it were me, I would probably get an Elder Lawyer and ask for

advice.  They have delt with "sticky wickets" like your FIL many more times

than you and I.  You may have to get a court order and if that's what it

takes to make your FIL safe - so be it. Tom's major concern needs to be

"safety".

Someone, probably Tom, should probably get a Medical POA, and in your

father's condition, one signed by him might not hold up if anyone else in

the family questioned whether he was of sound mind when he signed it.  Tom

might be able to take the car right now, if he is co-owner of the assets.

But I'm no lawyer! So, once again, start from a firm foundation with GOOD

legal advice.  Sounds like the medical advice you got was less than qualified.

Another thought, if Tom has co-ownership of assets, he could hire a

companion and pay for it from Dad's funds.  Don't know if FIL would be too

happy, however.



Sue



At 02:25 PM 2/15/98 -0500, you wrote:

>

>Sue,

>

>Thanks for responding. Tom's name is on his father's asset accounts as

co-owner,

>but he does not have POA. And the man is so irrational right now, I doubt he

>would agree to it. As for the physical, he has had one by the family

doctor. The

>doctor's attitude was "Let's not bother with tests. So what if he has AD." True

>story. And we can't get Dad to see another doctor because, of course, he says

>there is nothing wrong with him. So we're stuck.

>

>Karen

>

>Sue Petrovski wrote:

>

>> Karen,

>>

>> Does your husband have POA?  Seems to me that there are two things you can

>> do right now:

>>         1.  Be sure you get the legal stuff taken care of, if possible.

>> (POA etc/)

>>         2.  Insist he get a physical and get a diagnosis.  It could be

>> something treatable.

>>

>> Right now, without these two things, it's almost impossible to operate or

>> even protect him, and basically, protection for him and others he might hurt

>> while driving are your main concerns.  See an Elder law attorney and get his

>> advice, and try to get the physical.

>>

>> Sue

>> At 11:35 AM 2/15/98 -0500, you wrote:

>> >

>> >My father-in-law has not been diagnosed with AD, but my husband, Tom,

>> >and I know he is in early stages. His mother died from it, and he has

>> >all the symptoms: short-term memory problems, trouble finding the words

>> >he wants to use and, most of all, nasty personality changes! He has

>> >become impossible to be around. Nothing pleases him. He is rude to

>> >strangers in public, and belligerant and verbally abusive to his

>> >children. He misplaces something, and then accuses Tom of taking it. He

>> >expects Tom to drop everything (including job responsibilities) to come

>> >running when he wants something. If Tom doesn't do it, he explodes,

>> >calls him all kinds of names and threatens to cut him out of the will.

>> >

>> >Several weeks ago, Dad had a third heart attack (he's also had two

>> >strokes). He was borderline being able to live alone in his own home

>> >before. He has little use of his right arm and wears a brace on the

>> >right leg. Now he is weaker than ever, and his mental deterioration has

>> >progressed in recent weeks. We feel he is no longer capable of living

>> >alone. He refuses to go to an assisted-living community, so Tom has been

>> >trying to find a live-in companion. Now Dad says he won't pay anyone to

>> >come in (he can afford it, but he's tight). He wants to find "some

>> >homeless person" to move in and travel around the country with him. He

>> >also continues to drive, despite his physical and mental impairments,

>> >and we know that's a danger. We're at our wits end.

>> >

>> >We know that legally we can't force him to do anything without having

>> >him declared incompetent, and we know that is difficult to do. The

>> >problem is he is borderline. He still has periods, particularly early in

>> >the day, when he is somewhat rational. He can dress and bathe himself,

>> >but little else. He can't cook, do laundry or anything like that.

>> >

>> >The bottom line is he shouldn't be driving or living alone, but what can

>> >we do? Any advice?

>> >

>> >Karen

>> >

>> >

>

>

>

>

Karen



I know how frustrating it can be to watch a LO that you know is in trouble

and they want you and everyone to be in complete Denial like they are! I had

to take some pretty strong steps with my father not to long ago. He refused

to go to a Dr. or allow any help even though he could barely walk and at

times was confused as to which wife my mother was (he was married three

times but my mother was the only one that was married to him long enough,

nearly 30 yrs., to have kids with). His plans were totally unrealistic, his

house was a mess, the stove was leaking gas, he smelled of bodily functions,

he was still driving even though he put the care in low gear and could not

understand why it would not go fast (Thank God for that). He would not let

me do a thing for him. I finally put my foot down and called Adult

Protective Services. He was guilty of self neglect. They gave me the muscle

I needed to get my Dad in a safer environment and take his car away. He more

or less had a choice allow us kids to take care of him and help or the state

would step in.



Edyth Ann

edythann@...

ICQ # 2665330  AOL Buddy  Bublehead2

Thanks so much for your advice.



Karen



bsmith wrote:



> Karen you can call you local BMV and ask them what it would take

> for them revoke his license, we did that I needed to get a

> script or written note saying that the doctor feels this patient

> isn't able to drive safely anymore and what medical problems he

> has.  Then when they sent my mother in law a letter requesting

> her to go to the nearest BMV and take the eye test and written

> test over, and when she didn't they told her to submit her

> license and when she said she knew I was behind it I just told

> her I did what the doctor suggested and if she didn't take the

> test it was her fault.  Well of course she didnt and she lost

> her driving priviledges and yes we had a few weeks of

> complaining and being upset but soon she forgot about it and all

> was over with.  I don't know if this is good for you but at the

> time we did my mother in law also had days of good memory and

> what was going on but all too many times she would say she was

> out and forgot for a little bit where she was and what she was

> suppost to be doing. Plus she was always wanting the kids to

> ride with her.  And we knew that was impossible.

>

> Good luck and God richely bless you.

>

> Beverly S

> -------------------------------------

> Name: bsmith

> E-mail: bsmith <bsmith@...>

> Date: 2/15/98

> Time: 6:06:18 PM

>

> This message was sent by Chameleon

> -------------------------------------

Thanks for your advice.



Karen



Sue Petrovski wrote:



> Karen,

>

> I can only advise you to do something, for if it is AD it isn't going to get

> any better.  If it were me, I would probably get an Elder Lawyer and ask for

> advice.  They have delt with "sticky wickets" like your FIL many more times

> than you and I.  You may have to get a court order and if that's what it

> takes to make your FIL safe - so be it. Tom's major concern needs to be

> "safety".

> Someone, probably Tom, should probably get a Medical POA, and in your

> father's condition, one signed by him might not hold up if anyone else in

> the family questioned whether he was of sound mind when he signed it.  Tom

> might be able to take the car right now, if he is co-owner of the assets.

> But I'm no lawyer! So, once again, start from a firm foundation with GOOD

> legal advice.  Sounds like the medical advice you got was less than qualified.

> Another thought, if Tom has co-ownership of assets, he could hire a

> companion and pay for it from Dad's funds.  Don't know if FIL would be too

> happy, however.

>

> Sue

>

> At 02:25 PM 2/15/98 -0500, you wrote:

> >

> >Sue,

> >

> >Thanks for responding. Tom's name is on his father's asset accounts as

> co-owner,

> >but he does not have POA. And the man is so irrational right now, I doubt he

> >would agree to it. As for the physical, he has had one by the family

> doctor. The

> >doctor's attitude was "Let's not bother with tests. So what if he has AD."

True

> >story. And we can't get Dad to see another doctor because, of course, he says

> >there is nothing wrong with him. So we're stuck.

> >

> >Karen

> >

> >Sue Petrovski wrote:

> >

> >> Karen,

> >>

> >> Does your husband have POA?  Seems to me that there are two things you can

> >> do right now:

> >>         1.  Be sure you get the legal stuff taken care of, if possible.

> >> (POA etc/)

> >>         2.  Insist he get a physical and get a diagnosis.  It could be

> >> something treatable.

> >>

> >> Right now, without these two things, it's almost impossible to operate or

> >> even protect him, and basically, protection for him and others he might

hurt

> >> while driving are your main concerns.  See an Elder law attorney and get

his

> >> advice, and try to get the physical.

> >>

> >> Sue

> >> At 11:35 AM 2/15/98 -0500, you wrote:

> >> >

> >> >My father-in-law has not been diagnosed with AD, but my husband, Tom,

> >> >and I know he is in early stages. His mother died from it, and he has

> >> >all the symptoms: short-term memory problems, trouble finding the words

> >> >he wants to use and, most of all, nasty personality changes! He has

> >> >become impossible to be around. Nothing pleases him. He is rude to

> >> >strangers in public, and belligerant and verbally abusive to his

> >> >children. He misplaces something, and then accuses Tom of taking it. He

> >> >expects Tom to drop everything (including job responsibilities) to come

> >> >running when he wants something. If Tom doesn't do it, he explodes,

> >> >calls him all kinds of names and threatens to cut him out of the will.

> >> >

> >> >Several weeks ago, Dad had a third heart attack (he's also had two

> >> >strokes). He was borderline being able to live alone in his own home

> >> >before. He has little use of his right arm and wears a brace on the

> >> >right leg. Now he is weaker than ever, and his mental deterioration has

> >> >progressed in recent weeks. We feel he is no longer capable of living

> >> >alone. He refuses to go to an assisted-living community, so Tom has been

> >> >trying to find a live-in companion. Now Dad says he won't pay anyone to

> >> >come in (he can afford it, but he's tight). He wants to find "some

> >> >homeless person" to move in and travel around the country with him. He

> >> >also continues to drive, despite his physical and mental impairments,

> >> >and we know that's a danger. We're at our wits end.

> >> >

> >> >We know that legally we can't force him to do anything without having

> >> >him declared incompetent, and we know that is difficult to do. The

> >> >problem is he is borderline. He still has periods, particularly early in

> >> >the day, when he is somewhat rational. He can dress and bathe himself,

> >> >but little else. He can't cook, do laundry or anything like that.

> >> >

> >> >The bottom line is he shouldn't be driving or living alone, but what can

> >> >we do? Any advice?

> >> >

> >> >Karen

> >> >

> >> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond. We may have to go the route you

suggest. The problem is I'm not sure my husbands' siblings would support it.

They have the attitude that he should just be left alone like he wants, and if

something happens, it happens. When Tom mentioned taking his driver's license

away, they all said "You can't do that. Dad would be furious." So that's the

mentality we're dealing with.



Karen



Edyth Ann Knox wrote:



> Karen

>

> I know how frustrating it can be to watch a LO that you know is in trouble

> and they want you and everyone to be in complete Denial like they are! I had

> to take some pretty strong steps with my father not to long ago. He refused

> to go to a Dr. or allow any help even though he could barely walk and at

> times was confused as to which wife my mother was (he was married three

> times but my mother was the only one that was married to him long enough,

> nearly 30 yrs., to have kids with). His plans were totally unrealistic, his

> house was a mess, the stove was leaking gas, he smelled of bodily functions,

> he was still driving even though he put the care in low gear and could not

> understand why it would not go fast (Thank God for that). He would not let

> me do a thing for him. I finally put my foot down and called Adult

> Protective Services. He was guilty of self neglect. They gave me the muscle

> I needed to get my Dad in a safer environment and take his car away. He more

> or less had a choice allow us kids to take care of him and help or the state

> would step in.

>

> Edyth Ann

> edythann@...

> ICQ # 2665330  AOL Buddy  Bublehead2