NUS breakthrough in use of Chinese herbs for HRT


http://asia.news.yahoo.com/030929/5/singapore50098.html


Women who need hormone replacement therapy but are worried about
possible harmful effects like stroke and breast cancer, can in
future turn to a Chinese herbal alternative.
Researchers from the National University of Singapore have made a
breakthrough and are working with Johns Hopkins University and drug
company Eli Lilly to turn their discovery into a pill.

After screening dozens of Chinese herbs, the NUS researchers have
found those that contain compounds which activate the good form of
estrogen.

The researchers isolated the compounds and with a sensor, analysed
their structures and properties.

Scientists recently discovered two opposing forms of estrogen
receptors.

The A form is believed to be responsible for triggering breast
cancer, heart disease and strokes.

The B form - the protective form - has anti-aging effects on bone,
breast and heart health.

"We went to isolate the compound and hey presto! we have a novel
compound not described in science before, that can activate the B
form of the receptor," said principal investigator Associate
Professor Yong Eu Leong of the NUS Medical Faculty.

"So that's in the patent process and hopefully this can develop into
a drug."

The researchers have filed for four patents and are likely to file
for more.

The team recently won a US$250,000 research grant from the US
National Institutes of Health, and hopes to receive another US$5
million.

Professor Yong believes Singapore can become a centre for herbal
drug discoveries and act as a bridge between Western and Chinese
medicine.

"Our colleagues in China although they have the chemistry they do
not have the regulatory framework for clinical trials; and their
science may not be so strong and their clinical set-up may not be so
accepted by the regulatory authorities in Europe or the United
States," Prof Yong said.

The lab is now working with Johns Hopkins to further test and
develop their discovery, before drug companies can turn it into a
pill which may make it to pharmacies within the next two to three
years.

Hi All,

My name's Glenn.  I took Prozac and BuSpar (an antianxiety agent)
for 6 years, but stopped them 2 years ago b/c of their side effects
(difficulty in eliminating water, severe memory loss).  I've been
off them completely for the last 2 years, but these side effects
remain.  I'm unemployed with just a temp job but no benefits in a
lousy economy, and I've been in this pickle for the last year.

I saw 2 urologists who said I don't have an enlarged prostate or
cancer, and ea. recommended a cystoscopy (where they thread a tube
up you).  I'd have to be awake for this procedure, for a variety of
reasons...so, I've been seeing an acupuncturist.

I've had 5 treatments, and could eliminate fluids easily after the
first treatment!  It really was immediate.  My foggy memory has
begun to clear, but I'm not back to my pre-Prozac self.  I've
adhered to my no dairy, no sugar or coffee (etc.) diet religiously,
but want results overnight. Has anyone experienced a similar problem
like this, known someone who has, or could you let me know about how
long it will take for acupuncture to "cure" me completely?  My
visits are $60 ea., and money is a bit tight, so you can imagine how
quickly I'd like to see results!  :-)

The acupuncturist (a lady, if it matters) doesn't seem to specialize
in selling herbs, but said I have an imbalance in my Liver and Heart
functions, and recommended I eat fennel,nutmeg, or cloves with ea.
meal to help stimulate these organs.

Any suggestions or words of wisdom you could impart?  Any
information you can provide would be great.  Many thanks.



Glenn

I've had an acupuncture Clinic in NE WI for over two years now, but
personal reasons force it's Sale.
Come with 300 herb pharmacy and many patent medicines, two treatment
rooms approx 100 patients.
Over $30,000 invested will sell for $10,000 OBO.
For more details please contact me
drddlyon@...
Dave

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/WorldNewsTonight/wnt020226_acupunc
ture.html


N E W  Y O R K,   Feb. 27 — By his own account, Dr. Randal Zusman,
Director of blood-pressure medicine at the Massachusetts General
Hospital, is a pill pusher.

I am very aggressive in the treatment of high blood pressure using
drugs, using pills," he says.
High blood pressure, or hypertension, is a major risk factor for
heart attack and stroke. Middle-aged Americans face a staggering 90
percent chance of developing the condition, according to a new
report in the Journal of the American Medical Association.

But the drugs used to treat it must be taken daily, usually for a
lifetime. And they may have side effects, such as fatigue,
depression and dizziness.

So Zusman is looking for alternatives for relieving hypertension. He
thinks he may have found one in the ancient Chinese technique of
acupuncture.

"There is an extensive literature from Asian and Russian communities
that acupuncture does indeed lower blood pressure," he says.

American researchers have already shown that special acupuncture
needles, when gently inserted into specific points on the skin, can
stimulate nerves that reach up into the brain and to cells in the
brain that control blood pressure.

"There's evidence from our laboratory and many other laboratories to
suggest that the cells quiet down after acupuncture," says Dr. John
Longhurst professor of medicine at the University of California,
Irvine.

When those cells "quiet down," or become less active, blood vessels
relax.

Clinical Trials Continue

Now, in the most rigorous study of its kind, patients with high
blood pressure — 140 (systolic) over 90 (diastolic) or higher — are
being given a series of 12 acupuncture treatments.

The study is not yet complete, but Zusman is already enthusiastic.

"A substantial number of our patients have responded with
significant reductions in blood pressure," he says.

Patients like Rip Reeves are also impressed: "In my late 30s, I was
probably 145/95; with medication, I got it down to 130/80. And since
I've been on acupuncture and not taking medication, I've been
averaging 125/75."

Perhaps most amazing, acupuncture's benefit can be long lasting.
Some patients who received the acupuncture treatment nine months ago
still have normal blood pressure.

"The implication," says Zusman, "is that 12 acupuncture treatments
over a six-week period will produce a cure."

In this case, the doctors defined "cure" as maintaining normal blood
pressure for one year without medication. And that, for some
patients, may now be within their reach.

Dear Group,

We have put up a new alternative medicine message boards on the web.
It is for serious discussion and sharing of high level information.

It is a noncommercial web community effort to share information, so
please, no spam to advertise your business, etc. Address of boards:
http://alternative-medicine-message-boards.info/

This new board is a result of the community effort of our alternative
medicine forum group at yahoogroups and other parts of the
alternative health community who have come together to make
information more available.

Our Group at yahoogroups is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Medicine_Forum/
(1100 members and 15,000 articles/messages.)

Frank

Thanks for the info.
  Have a great weekend,

Leesa Bolden RMT/owner
WholeBody Connection
Serious Bodywork, Lasting Results
www.wholebodyconnection.com
1617 W. 6th Suite C
Austin, TX 78703
512-476-3100
----- Original Message -----
From: "edmailer" <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
To: <acupunctureforum@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 10:31 PM
Subject: [Acupuncture Forum] Re: looking for an acupuncturist in El Paso


> Try this referal service:
>
>
> http://www.chiropractor-finder.com/Acupuncture/Texas/El_Paso/
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In acupunctureforum@yahoogroups.com, "Leesa Bolden" <leesa@w...>
> wrote:
> > I need a referral for my sister-in-law's father in El Paso, TX.
> > He wants to quit smoking and he has a bleeding ulcer, colon issues
> and a hernia.  Basically he is a mess and needs a lot of help.  He
> is willing to take advice and make the necessary changes to regain
> his life.
> >
> > Leesa Bolden RMT/owner
> > WholeBody Connection
> > Serious Bodywork, Lasting Results
> > www.wholebodyconnection.com
> > 1617 W. 6th Suite C
> > Austin, TX 78703
> > 512-476-3100
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> acupunctureforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>

Try this referal service:


http://www.chiropractor-finder.com/Acupuncture/Texas/El_Paso/





--- In acupunctureforum@yahoogroups.com, "Leesa Bolden" <leesa@w...>
wrote:
> I need a referral for my sister-in-law's father in El Paso, TX.
> He wants to quit smoking and he has a bleeding ulcer, colon issues
and a hernia.  Basically he is a mess and needs a lot of help.  He
is willing to take advice and make the necessary changes to regain
his life.
>
> Leesa Bolden RMT/owner
> WholeBody Connection
> Serious Bodywork, Lasting Results
> www.wholebodyconnection.com
> 1617 W. 6th Suite C
> Austin, TX 78703
> 512-476-3100
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thou--ght you might enjoy this.
            al
--- Gisela Ullrich <giselaullrich@...> wrote:
> From: "Gisela Ullrich" <giselaullrich@...>
> To: Rollsblue@..., mh@...,
> SANDRA@..., r.kindell@...,
> lambswear@..., michael@...,
> mkinerk@..., Maritaben@...,
> mariopro@..., r.kantuser@...,
> mconeill@..., KSchnurer@...,
> karin.john@..., karin.goschler@...,
> mathieuj@..., Jsktrio@...,
> inesperugini@..., helenore@...,
> HDinter@...,
> Johann-Ulrich.Sutter@...,
> gbwontok@..., GEORGIAPG@..., FHJOHL@...,
> Rique88@..., EikeLehmann@...,
> Dr.A.Muehlbauer@..., hcpgerhard@...,
> catsutter@..., carmen.uckermann@...,
> Steinbach-Uelzen@..., alconliffe@...
> Subject: Fwd: HOW TO STAY YOUNG
> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 03:48:41 -0400
>
> Hi,
> this morning I took the time to read this. And it
> made me laugh (several
> times) and therefore I feel VERY GOOOODDDD.
>
> I wish you the same.
>
> Love & Hugs,
> Gisela
> (enjoying the Indian Summer in Southern Germany)
>
>
>
> Gisela Ullrich
> Realtor/Immobilienmaklerin
> P.O.Box 41-5041
> Miami Beach, FL 33141/USA
> Tel. 001 (305) 531 0517 pr. & Voice Mail
> email: giselaullrich@...
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Helen Labuschagne" <helenore@...>
> >To: "gisela ullrich" <giselaullrich@...>
> >Subject: HOW TO STAY YOUNG
> >Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 20:54:54 -0000
> >
> >Liebe Gisela
> >if you haven't already seen this, enjoy
> >es grusst
> >Die Helen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >        Enjoy!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >       HOW TO STAY YOUNG
> >       (George Carlin)
> >
> >       1. Throw out nonessential numbers. This
> includes age, weight and
> >height.
> >       Let the doctor worry about them. That is why
> you pay him/her.
> >
> >       2. Keep only cheerful friends. The grouches
> pull you down.
> >
> >       3. Keep learning. Learn more about the
> computer, crafts, gardening,
> >whatever.
> >       Never let the brain idle. " An idle mind is
> the devil's workshop."
> >       And the devil's name is Alzheimer's.
> >
> >       4. Enjoy the simple things.
> >
> >       5. Laugh often, long and loud. Laugh until
> you gasp for breath.
> >
> >       6. The tears happen. Endure, grieve, and
> move on.
> >       The only person who is with us our entire
> life, is ourselves.
> >       Be ALIVE while you are alive.
> >
> >       7. Surround yourself with what you love,
> whether it's family,p ets,
> >keepsakes, music, plants, hobbies, whatever. Your
> home is your refuge.
> >
> >       8. Cherish your health: If it is good,
> preserve it. If it is
> >unstable, improve it.
> >       If it is beyond what you can improve, get
> help.
> >
> >       9. Don't take guilt trips.
> >       Take a trip to the mall, to the next county,
> to a foreign country,
> >       but NOT to where the guilt is.
> >
> >       10. Tell the people you love that you love
> them, at every
> >opportunity.
> >
> >       AND ALWAYS REMEMBER:
> >
> >       Life is not measured by the number of
> breaths we take,
> >       but by the moments that take our breath
> away.
> >       If you don't send this to at least 8
> people.... who cares?
> >
> >
> >
> >---
> >
> >This email and all its contents are subject to the
> following disclaimer :
> >"http://www.tigerbrands.com/disclaimer.htm"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >       Confidentiality Warning
> >       =======================
> >       The contents of this e-mail and any
> accompanying documentation
> >       are confidential and any use thereof, in
> what ever form, by anyone
> >       other than the addressee is strictly
> prohibited.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>____________________________________________________
> >   IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click
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__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Looking for an acupuncture position anywhere in the world.
I'm NCCAOM Dipl in Acupuncture and Herbology. Had a clinic in NW
Wisconsin that I had to close for personal reasons, any suggestions
would be vary helpful
drddlyon@...

I need a referral for my sister-in-law's father in El Paso, TX.
He wants to quit smoking and he has a bleeding ulcer, colon issues and a hernia.
Basically he is a mess and needs a lot of help.  He is willing to take advice
and make the necessary changes to regain his life.

Leesa Bolden RMT/owner
WholeBody Connection
Serious Bodywork, Lasting Results
www.wholebodyconnection.com
1617 W. 6th Suite C
Austin, TX 78703
512-476-3100



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

JAPAN LITE

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?fl20030830cz.htm

'Hari': acupuncture or body piercing?

By AMY CHAVEZ

I had already tried massage, but my back and shoulders were still
hurting from a pinched nerve. So, I tried "hari." Hari is
acupuncture. "Hari," also the Japanese word for needle, but with a
different kanji, is almost always written in hiragana, perhaps to
make it seem less threatening. I had spotted the old, dirty sign
while walking in the city and decided to give it try right then. I
walked into a tiny room with curtains and a woman who greeted me.
She said she could give me treatment right away. No names, no forms
to fill out.
"Is this your first time?" she asked me. "Yes," I said, relieved
that an explanation would follow. But no explanation followed. "Your
first time?" I asked, referring to her treating a "gaijin." "Yes,"
she said. I offered no explanation.

She told me to lie on my back, and she leaned over me and submerged
the first eight needles into my body. Tap-tap with a small hammer,
two into each arm: tap-tap, tap-tap. Two into each calf: tap-tap,
tap-tap. Then she pointed a heat lamp on my stomach and left me.

The needles were sticking out of me in pairs. They were very thin
needles. If I moved my arm just slightly, they'd wave at me. Great.

After 10 minutes, she pulled out the needles and told me to roll
over on my stomach. She stuck at least 20 more needles into my body.
Talk about body piercing! Tap-tap, tap-tap. I wonder if she sells
silver hoops and rings too. Tap-tap. Maybe body piercing is really
just permanent acupuncture.

"Do any of them hurt?" she asked.

"Of course they hurt! They're neeeeeeedles!" I wanted to say. But
the more I thought about it, the more I realized they didn't hurt at
all. Even the needles in my head didn't hurt.

She left me again, this time for 30 minutes. There I was, displayed
like a butterfly pinned to cardboard. I wondered, should I spread my
wings out a little? Perhaps the lamp was for observation purposes
too. But so far, no observers. I guess I wasn't a very interesting
foreign insect after all.

Every now and then, the needles in my arm would wave at me. Did I
twitch a muscle? I don't think so. With the proximity of Mars these
days, maybe someone was trying to make contact. I didn't really know
how to interpret the waving needles, so I just smiled back at them.
You know, just in case.

Then it hit me -- was I was being used as a voodoo doll? Perhaps
foreigners all over Japan were saying "Ouch! Ouch!" as they felt
needles prick their bodies. Did anyone else out there feel your
belly getting hot? Tap-taps out of nowhere? Or maybe you looked down
and suddenly had a pierced belly button with a silver ring.

The woman (I never thought to ask her name) was still gone. Was she
preparing a chant? A spell? And why me? Why should she pick me to
represent the foreign population? Just then, she appeared from
behind the curtain.

She waved her hands over me: "A curse on you, tumble into smoking
stew. May a black snake catch you by the heel, and hornets get you
when you kneel. Bedbugs eat you by night, all goes wrong nothing
right, lest my daughter pass the English STEP test."

As she pulled out the needles, I woke up.

"How do you feel?" she asked.

"Great. The pain is gone." I thanked her, gave her 4,000 yen and
left.

I've had no problems with my back since. Of course, her daughter
hasn't taken the English STEP test yet either.

China rediscovering the quintessential drink — tea



  http://www.tipsto.com/world-newspapers/vietnam.htm







By MARTIN FACKLER

PANTUO, China — In a remote valley between steep, rocky peaks in the
southeastern province of Fujian sits one of China's newest
attractions — an amusement park dedicated entirely to tea.
Smiling attendants dressed as Song dynasty noblewomen and Tibetan
nomads greet visitors to a Disney-like collection of fake imperial
pavilions, man-made hills and ponds decorated by stone lanterns and
even full-size plaster models of tea trees.
Tenfu Tea Museum, deep in the region that grows China's famous
Oolong tea, is hours from the nearest airport. Yet thousands of
Chinese tourists have made the journey since it opened a year ago.
"I brought my 11-year-old son here because I felt he needed to learn
more about China's cultural heritage," said Guo Zuchun, 36, an
engineer who drove six hours from neighbouring Guangdong
province. "No one taught me about this when I was growing up."
Chinese are rediscovering tea, that most quintessential of their
culture's drinks.
Legend has it that tea was first discovered by a Chinese emperor
5,000 years ago when some leaves accidentally fell into his cup.
From there, the drink spread around the globe. The Chinese
word "cha" became "chai" in Arabic, "chay" in Russian and "tea" in
English.
The bitter blend of cured leaves and hot water is one of the
bedrocks of China's identity, as typical of the ancient culture as
chopsticks and Chinese characters. It was once a staple of imperial
courtiers and poets, who practiced elaborate preparation rituals and
wrote volumes on the drink.
But tea seemed to fall out of favour in modern times. In the 1960s,
fervent communists smashed priceless teapots as symbols of an
unwanted past. More recently, urban youth embraced a Western-style
latte culture.
In the last few years, however, tea consumption has begun to
skyrocket, and to appeal to increasingly up-market tastes.
In Shanghai, China's largest and richest city, average annual
consumption has more than quadrupled since 1992 to 900 grams per
person, said Liu Qigui, head of the Shanghai Tea Institute, a
government group that promotes tea.
During the same decade, the number of cafes in the city specializing
in tea jumped from three to 3,000, he said. That compares with 25
Starbucks coffee stores.
Most of those gains have come since 1998, as rising wealth has
brought a newfound sense of self-confidence in China's past, Liu
said.
"People are turning to tea again as they grow more enthusiastic
about Chinese tradition," he said.
Many new tea shops draw younger crowds by playing pop music and
offering cold teas flavoured with chocolate and strawberry. Sweet,
chewy "pearls" the size of cherries float in the tall glasses, to be
sucked out by special, fat straws.
Other shops cater to more traditional palates.
Along one of Shanghai's most chic streets, the Tangyun Tea House is
marked by paper lanterns and an entrance lined with thickets of
young bamboo. Behind the door stands a wooden statue of Lu Yu, a
Tang dynasty poet revered as the "saint of tea."
Inside, in rooms filled with elegant wood furniture and traditional
music playing in the background, customers pay up to 11 dollars per
cup for brews with names like "Pearl over Seashell" and "Plum and
Bamboo."
"Chinese now drink coffee and tea," said Tao Yuan, a 39-year-old
president of a computer company who sipped a tiny brown cup of
Oolong tea poured from an equally tiny brown pot. "Coffee is fine
for the office, but when we want to chat and brainstorm, tea is
best."
Another appeal of tea lies in its association with traditional
Chinese medicine.
Tao favours Oolong, a brown, mildly bitter tea prized for its
reputed ability to burn away fat and reduce weight. It's one of more
than 1,000 types of tea in China, ranging from the delicate green
Longjing favoured by Chinese President Jiang Zemin to sweet, hardy
Babaocha, or "eight treasures tea" — a mixture of herbs, nuts, sugar
and dried fruit nuggets.
Tea shops display the leaves in rows of glass jars, charging as much
as 250 dollars per 500 grams. Buyers judge aroma, texture and color.
Visitors at the Tenfu museum in Pantuo show a keen interest in tea's
painstaking production process and ancient history, curators said.
"We want to learn more about what we once had," said Li Shuzhen,
head of research at the museum, which is partly owned by a Taiwanese
tea company.
In a corner of the park, near a fountain shaped as an enormous
teapot spewing water into a cup, sits a tile-roofed hall billed as
the largest tea museum in China.
Inside, exhibits show how newly picked leaves are sun-dried,
fermented on bamboo trays and baked in ovens in more than a dozen
steps to become top-grade tea.
Employees in silk robes and ornately braided hair demonstrate
imperial China's intricate ceremonies for measuring, boiling and
serving tea. The rituals date to the 7th century Tang dynasty, when
emperors favoured gold tea-making utensils and leaves were accepted
as currency for tribute from the provinces.
Tea has never ceased being a fixture of life in China, with farmers
in even the poorest regions enjoying steaming cups. But the complete
rejection of China's past in the first decades of communist rule
wiped away the higher cultural accomplishments that once surrounded
the drink.
Today, the new upscale tea cafes complain they can't find employees
with an adequate knowledge of preparing different teas and
traditional ways to serve them.
Three years ago, the Shanghai Tea Institute began offering courses
in preparation and etiquette, with three levels of certification.
Students study the history of tea, how to distinguish grades of tea
leaves and the best kinds of water to use.
So far, no one has earned the highest certificate, which requires an
ability to distinguish all 1,000 tea types in China, perform a
perfectly executed tea-serving ceremony, play the traditional
guzheng stringed instrument — and speak a foreign language to
entertain overseas guests.
But in a sign of rising interest among young people, more than 200
people applied for 50 spots in a new six-month course to earn the
senior certificate, said Liu, the institute head.
"The 20th century was America's century, the century of coffee," Liu
said. "If the 21st century becomes China's century, it will be the
century of tea."
(AP)

I set you up to receive individual emails. If you wanted a different
setting, let me know.

Jim

--- In acupunctureforum@yahoogroups.com, "taradien" <taradien@y...>
wrote:
> Hello.
> can someone tell me  what to do to receive  emails from the group.

Hello.
can someone tell me  what to do to receive  emails from the group.

Hello everybody, I am sending out this post in hopes
that it may help some of your patients living in and around
NYC. There is a study going on that is funded by the
NIH and being held at Columbia University School of
Nursing, in NYC. The study is a controlled clinical
trial that is testing Acupuncture +/or Moxibustion to
reduce the frequency of diarrhea in HIV+ individuals.
I, myself am a licensed acupuncturist and chinese
herbalist (NCCAOM) working as a research study
facilitator on this grant. If you know of anybody who
can benifit from these free treatments (there is also
compensation) please spread the news to those who can
benifit.

There are also 2 pilot studies being held. One of the studies is
primarily for patients who experience "IBS" syptoms. The only
criteria that the patient must fall under is 1- they have been
diagnosed with IBS from their wetern doctor and 2- they must be b/t
the ages of 18- 70 yrs old.
The second pilot study is for HIV+ individuals who experience
naussea +/or vomiting s/sx's.

All treatments are given by licenced acupuncturist and are held in a
cllinical setting at Columbia. There is also compensation for the
treatments the patients come to.

Please, if you know of anybody whether patients, family, or friends
who may be interested in any three of these studies, do not hesitate
to get in touch with me.

There is an increased need for research to expand past only western
modalities. We need the practitioners, patients and the community to
help bridge this gap. Unfortunately you can only go so far
into "proving" what works when were dealing with the energy systems
of the body so pressure is on us to assertain proper and positive
results. Thank you so much for your time. If you have any questions
+/or need more information please contact me at purekarm@...
or purekarm@.... Thanks again-

thanks edmailer. found a school.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In acupunctureforum@yahoogroups.com, "naci5700pt" <tyson@n...>
> wrote:
> > Hello all, i'm new to the group. I have a question about places
> > where i can learn acupuncture. I'm at Portugal now, there are
some
> > schools here but they are not full time as i would like. Does
> anyone
> > know certified and recognised schools, full time like any other
> > school (as a law school for example..).
> >
> > thank you very much to all!
> >
> > Miguel, Portugal

check this site for acupuncture and other alternative therapies.
register as a free member. Subscribe for free e-newsletter. submit
your ad for free.
http://www.geocities.com/tobetterlife

Try Vilberto's home page below:


http://acupuncture.freehomepage.com/acupvil.htm








--- In acupunctureforum@yahoogroups.com, "naci5700pt" <tyson@n...>
wrote:
> Hello all, i'm new to the group. I have a question about places
> where i can learn acupuncture. I'm at Portugal now, there are some
> schools here but they are not full time as i would like. Does
anyone
> know certified and recognised schools, full time like any other
> school (as a law school for example..).
>
> thank you very much to all!
>
> Miguel, Portugal

Hello all, i'm new to the group. I have a question about places
where i can learn acupuncture. I'm at Portugal now, there are some
schools here but they are not full time as i would like. Does anyone
know certified and recognised schools, full time like any other
school (as a law school for example..).

thank you very much to all!

Miguel, Portugal

Read  Bob Flaws's article on warm diseases.

http://www.bluepoppy.com/press/download/articles/fuwenxie_jul01.cfm












--- In acupunctureforum@yahoogroups.com, "ken_1234567892002"
<ken_1234567892002@y...> wrote:
> Hello,
>
>       I hope you can answer my question. I would like to know how
> antibiotics affect childeren. My question is;
>
> If there was a 6yr old child who presented with eczma, and
> antibiotics were taken would they have an ill effect on the eczma?
>
> Do antibiotcs push warm diseases further into the body creating
> latent diseases?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Kenneth Snell.

This site talks about antibiotic resistance.


http://www.cdc.gov/drugresistance/community/




--- In acupunctureforum@yahoogroups.com, "ken_1234567892002"
<ken_1234567892002@y...> wrote:
> Hello,
>
>       I hope you can answer my question. I would like to know how
> antibiotics affect childeren. My question is;
>
> If there was a 6yr old child who presented with eczma, and
> antibiotics were taken would they have an ill effect on the eczma?
>
> Do antibiotcs push warm diseases further into the body creating
> latent diseases?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Kenneth Snell.

Hello,

       I hope you can answer my question. I would like to know how
antibiotics affect childeren. My question is;

If there was a 6yr old child who presented with eczma, and
antibiotics were taken would they have an ill effect on the eczma?

Do antibiotcs push warm diseases further into the body creating
latent diseases?

Thank you.

Kenneth Snell.

No pain, no gain

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/magazine/story/0,11913,992655,00.html



We all hide our hurts, says Barefoot Doctor, but there can be
ecstasy in our agonies

Sunday July 6, 2003
The Observer

Working on my new book recently, I've been sitting hunched over for
50 hours or so, bashing away at the keys. Yes, hunched, even with
all my experience of postural adjustment - so call me a fake, but I
defy anyone to find a posture that works for your back when you're
typing for extended periods. The upshot was that I managed to weaken
my lumbar region so much I could barely walk, barefoot or shod, more
than a few steps without causing myself rip-roaring agony.
As fate would have it, I was sequestered in my windy hillside
hideaway in Catalunya, many kilometres from the nearest
chiropractor, and was thus forced to make the best of a bad job,
taking each small step with utmost gingerness as I went about my
business in the nearby town, eliciting looks of deep empathy from
very old men.

With a fair amount of time spent lying on my back, head supported by
a book, knees bent and facing skywards, allowing my lower back to
settle into the floor, along with a few self-administered
acupuncture treatments and a couple of half-effective spinal
adjustments, I fixed it enough to get back to London and am now
almost right as rain.

But what it showed me, yet again, was how amazingly arrogant I'd
become - how much I'd been taking my health for granted, but also
how little compassion I'd been feeling for the pain of others. If
you'd seen me driving along you'd have just thought I was driving
slowly to be irritating. So it made me think: if every time I was
stuck behind someone of latter years driving slowly it was because
they were in pain, then what an impatient, unfeeling git I was to
get irritated. And what if it wasn't a physical pain - what if
they'd just lost a job, a home, a reputation, a partner? Compassion,
I thought - I must develop more compassion.

Now I'm not suggesting we all go around with bleeding hearts - no,
the show must go on and we all have our parts to play without having
to worry about others - but how fine it could be for the show in
general if we all developed a bit more tolerance and understanding -
or even just if I did, for that matter.

It also reminded me (and this was something I learnt as a healer)
that most of the time most of us are in pain - physical, mental or
emotional - to varying degrees.

We tend not to show it, perhaps as a reflex from the days our
ancestors lived in caves: if you showed weakness you got left behind.

And what do you do if, in the throes of such extreme pain, you feel
immobilised? The first thing is to resist the urge to panic. Stop
thinking too far ahead - take it one small step at a time, paying
attention to every micro-movement of your body. To help you in this,
also pay attention to your breath.

I know I've said it countless times, but it's crucial to ongoing
existence. When you slow your breathing down, your mind slows down,
enabling it to direct the body's actions in the most effective way
under the circumstances. As you slow your breathing down, also pay
attention to relaxing your entire body as much as is humanly
possible. Tensing the body, though the normal reaction to severe
pain, restricts blood and energy flow. Relaxing it encourages the
flow of pain-relieving healing energy, which can be augmented by
pressing a point directly below the small round bone that juts out
at the very outermost edge of your knee joints into the muscle that
runs down the outside of your shin, until you feel an ache radiating
towards the ankle for about 15 seconds on each leg.

While this will not act as a painkiller, it will alter your
relationship with the pain enough to stop you freaking out about it -
  and surely that's the main thing in this crazy old world, whether
in pain or not: to be able to avoid freaking out. I wish you a cool,
clear head, a strong, warm heart and a body, mind and soul free of
pain.

Needle work



http://observer.guardian.co.uk/magazine/story/0,11913,1015468,00.html


Using acupuncture instead of anaesthetic makes a lasting impression
on Barefoot Doctor

Sunday August 10, 2003
The Observer

Many years ago, I went through a phase of being called upon to
assist various private surgeons around the UK by administering
acupuncture anaesthesia during surgery to patients who were known to
be allergic to anaesthetic. I found these invariably to be highly
sweaty episodes, partly because it was so tense; partly because, in
those days, anaesthesia with acupuncture being relatively new to the
West, the surgeons insisted on having medical students observing on
account of the novelty value; partly because it's very hot under
those lights; and partly because I'm a pacifist by nature and blood,
gore and gurgling innards are not my bag. Indeed, during one
particular episode involving a hysterectomy, what with the lower
abdomen being notoriously difficult to numb, so much sweat was
pouring down over my eyes and on to my surgical mask that I could
hardly see.
Although, traditionally, a different acupuncturist would have been
assigned to each of the six to 12 needles being used, each of whom
would assiduously twiddle their needle throughout the operation, by
the early 80s it was common practice to attach wires by crocodile
clip to each needle, the other end of which was plugged into an
electronic stimulator, sending a constant charge through the needle.

Halfway through the hysterectomy operation, as the knife reached her
spine, the patient started groaning. Through cascades of sweat, I
was able to find my way to the knobs and increase the voltage just
enough to keep the level of groaning to a bearable minimum, but then
it all got too much and they pumped her full of chemicals.

Of course, I didn't take this as a personal failure - I'd warned
everyone involved that there was only a 50/50 chance of it working -
I was just relieved she came round from the anaesthetic in one
piece. Nonetheless, it left me with a phobia of electronic gadgets
that had anything to do with acupuncture.

So, when one day a large box arrived at my house out of the blue,
courtesy of the Chinese government, containing something called a
Biolamp, which claimed to be able to administer acupuncture without
needles, it was not without great trepidation that I gave it a go.

I get an ache in the sacral area of my lower back from sitting too
long at the computer, so I aimed the lamp at my sacrum for 20
minutes. Both my phobic tendencies and innate scepticism quickly
dispersed when I got up and found that every last trace of ache had
gone. I am now slightly addicted to my Biolamp.

It was invented by Dr Gou Wenbin, who was investigating an old
ceramics factory where an interesting phenomenon was occurring.
Though the workers spent all day standing, there was never a single
incidence of backache or arthritis. It turned out that there was a
strong and unique spectrum in the kiln area, which Gou traced to a
black clay deposit. The clay was found to contain 33 trace elements,
all apparently essential to human life.

So they invented this dinky lamp that now stands in the corner of my
office. It throws a concentrated stream of intense heat through a
plate of that same black clay, thus activating a band of
electromagnetic waves in the infrared range. These waves find
resonance within the body, promoting healing and pain relief. If
you're interested, check out their website: www.biolamps.com.

Meanwhile, an instant, lampless way to promote healing and pain
relief is to soak in a hot bath of Epsom salts, which draw out
impurities, then relax and briskly rub with your palm over affected
areas for about 30 seconds. If doing this on the sacrum, use the
knuckles.

I have just reread the beginning of this piece to see if I could
come up with a pay-off line to make you chortle, but it triggered
the visceral memory of that awful groaning and the knife cutting
away, and the sweat is pouring over my eyes in such profusion that I
can't see the screen. So that's me out - quick, get me a
hypnotherapist...

This Schindler's list includes book, massage oils


http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?fl20030802a1.htm


By ANGELA JEFFS

With a famed name and a life story that makes one thankful to live
on an island rather than a landmass subject to the territorial whims
of neighboring states, you would think Japan would take Ana von
Schindler to its heart. But her visit is not panning out quite as
expected. "The holiday part is fine, but I was hoping for rather
more promotion for my book and aromatherapeutic oils."

Fate found Ana von Schindler in the form of a stranger who came
knocking at her door, saying she was the right person to master
multidisciplinary Chinese medicine.

The book, published in Japanese, has the title "Meridian Line
Massage" in katakana, but is subtitled in English "Well-being for
Body and Mind With Meridian Line Massage."

"Like acupuncture, it focuses on physical points that can be
massaged for improved well-being," she says. "There are techniques
for facials and relaxation, using herbs and oils. Also a selection
of recipes for improved eating. Such a holistic approach improves
health and balance, inside and out."

We meet in a wedding hall, as selected by Kyoko Yukawa, her friend,
translator, interpreter and self-styled agent. It is empty, so we
have the wonderful view over the ocean to ourselves. Kyoko keeps her
pale blue hat on (very "Gone With the Wind"). Ana removes her own,
being elegant enough in a pale yellow suit that, in combination with
red hair and blue eyes, dazzles.

Warm and relaxed, speaking in heavily accented English, Ana's life
reflects the postwar history of the Balkans. "We still have a family
home in Trieste, with a bedroom in Italy and the front door in
Yugoslavia," she says, laughing.

Six months after she was born in Moscow in 1944, her Austrian father
was killed in the war. Her grandmother and German-Yugoslav mother
then took her to live in Belgrade. "When I was 12, an aunt took me
to meet relatives in Czechoslovakia. Here I heard about this grand
uncle who had shamed the family by collaborating with the Nazis. It
was only later that we learned of his double life, saving Jewish
people from certain death." His name? Oscar Schindler, whose story
was made known to the world through Steven Spielberg's
film "Schindler's List."

Aged 19, Ana married an aspiring painter. "Luckily, I was ambitious
in my own right. Working as a documentarian and librarian for the
Assembly of Serbia, I studied medicine part time." Then life turned
upside-down. "My husband said, 'Let's go to Paris.' " So off they
went, baby Marie in tow. "We survived by my working as the concierge
for the apartment block where we lived."

One day there was a knock on her door. "It was an elderly Chinese
gentleman, nicely dressed in a suit. I was not brought up to invite
strange men into my home, but thinking he had the smile of an angel,
invited him in for tea. Imagine my surprise when he asked, 'Would
you like to study Chinese medicine?' When I replied, 'Why me?' he
answered, 'Because you are the right person.' " So began an
apprenticeship in all the historical, technical and philosophical
aspects of the tradition.

In 1980, Ana moved to Winnipeg in Canada. "I had such a vivid dream
of tanks in the streets of Macedonia that I woke with my heart
pounding. Believing there would be war, I left with my four
children." Though her marriage was by this time "less than perfect,"
her husband followed on -- and indeed is still around.

Opening a multidisciplinary clinic as a master therapist and
masseur -- "I use acupuncture, shiatsu, Russian massage -- whatever
techniques will best benefit a client" -- Ana became highly
successful.

By 1993 she had a holistic complex without precedence. "We even had
a shop selling accredited organic goods." Then she made a mistake,
taking on a political animal as a business partner. "He stole my
money. The bank took my business." Undaunted, she took four months
to rebuild her practice, "and myself."

In 1997 she took a holiday on the West Coast, and that was it. "Why
was I suffering the climatic extremes of Winnipeg when I could live
in lovely mild Victoria?" It took her three months to make the
move. "Three months later, the buyer (of her practice) went bust.
For me, though, it was the best thing I ever did."

Now remarried to an aikido-practicing French-Canadian, with two
daughters close at hand, she describes herself as "semiretired." She
began her meridian line massage book in 1999, after being promised
by a publisher that she would see it in print if she took his pain
away. The problem was cured; her words never saw light of day.

She has Kyoko Yukawa to thank for this recent publication, even
though there have been changes, allegedly to meet the demands of the
female Japanese market. These include simplistic manga-style
drawings to replace those done by one of Ana's daughters, and some
cutesy stories, including one about the translator and her dog.

Contracted not to use the material in any other published form for
five years, Ana is back to writing a doctorate on psychosomatic
pain, and poems for publication in Yugoslavia and Canada. Her
travels have left her fluent in Russian, Serbo-Croatian, Czech,
French and English, so with her poetry she has more control. "This
is my fifth trip to Japan, and my greatest frustration is not being
able to speak the language."

An earlier trip this year took her to a grave in the French
Dordogne -- a "soul journey" to meet her dead son of 37 years. Now
she is back home, hoping that her book reaches its market, and that
her oils, Angel Dreams and Arabian Nights, as produced through her
company, Healing Touch, find outlets.

One sniff of the organic lavender-based Angel Dreams, and this
writer is out like a light. As for Kyoko Yukawa's dog, apparently
she can't get enough of the stuff.

"Animals suffer arthritis and cancer," Ana says. "They benefit from
the healing effect of massage and oils just as much as we do."

Meridian Line Massage, published by Shufu to Seikatsu sha (Housewife
and Life), ISBN 4-391-12718-0. Healing Touch oils, phone/fax (046)
622-3770.

The Japan Times: Aug. 2, 2003

read this group messages:


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/acupuncture/messages/1401?viscount=100




--- In acupunctureforum@yahoogroups.com, "n1jcx2" <n1jcx2@y...>
wrote:
> Hello everyone...
>
>   I find myself at one of life's many crossroads.  At the tender,
> young age of 38 I find myself wishing to change careers (many
reasons
> behind this which I can share privately for those who care).  I've
> long had it in my mind to study "alternative medicine" (read:
> chiropractic, acupunture, or the like) after having fairly in-
depth
> experience with it over a course of several years both as a
patient
> and as an observer.   I personally experienced tremendous relief
at
> the hands of a chiropractor, and long-lasting healing of painful
> disorders at the hand of an acupuncturist/herbologist (forgive my
> terminology, I'm being specific in how I voice these experiences
> because of my current education in these matters.)  I also
personally
> witnessed the benefits of alternative/oriental medicinal practices
as
> they applied to my wife who eventually died of cancer.  Her pain
was
> mitigated greatly at times through acupuncture.
>
>   A little about myself:  I've been employed in the computer field
> for several years, have been self employed, made my first million,
> lost it, and am rebuilding that again... In other words, I've been
> around the block a little.  I'm also a single dad of 4 kids.
>
>   I find myself exceptionally interested in acupuncture and the
study
> of TCM.  I think that the study and application of TCM and "me"
makes
> a good fit.  Generally speaking I think I could succeed quite well
at
> this endevor.  A question comes to mind, however, in what I have
> observed over the years about a 'separation' of chiropractic and
> Acupuncture.  I have met several acupuncturists/TCM Doctors, and
> several Chiropractors who also "use acupuncture" as part of their
> therapy.  Never have I seen one person who is "good" at practicing
> both.
>
> My question is:  Why not?  At one time I was seeing a chiropractor
at
> the same time that I was receiving acupuncture treatment.  My
> acupuncturist (a D.O. -- but we'll leave that discission alone at
> this time) thought that this was a good thing, but also that he
could
> help the adjustments I was receiving have more effect and last
> longer.  My chiropractor, on the other hand, tried to apply
> acupuncture as part of my treatment with him with poor success.
It
> was obvious to me that while he was a competent chiropractor, but
a
> mediocre (at best) acupuncturist.  Why have I never met a good
> chiropractor who is also a good acupuncturist (or vice versa)?
>
> Is there a fundamental difference in approach or doctrine?  Is it
> a 'western thing'?  Something else?
>
> I'd personally be interested in -- over the longer haul --
> studying/practicing both if they complement each other the way I
(in
> my uneducated way) see them.  For the time being, I am leaning
> strongly towards TCM/Acupuncture.
>
> Thanx for your thoughts,
>
> Michael Dow
> Houston, TX

Acupuncture Helps Children Handle Pain
June 29, 2003 06:03:22 AM PST, HealthDay

http://health.yahoo.com/search/healthnews?lb=s&p=id%3A44039

By Kathleen Doheny
HealthDay Reporter

(HealthDay is the new name for HealthScoutNews.)

SUNDAY, June 29 (HealthDayNews) -- The boy was just 8, but he
suffered from Crohn's disease, a painful intestinal inflammation. He
was on medication, but struggled with frequent headaches, one of the
potential side effects of the treatments.

So Dr. Lixing Lao, a licensed acupuncturist and director of the
traditional Chinese medicine research program at the University of
Maryland's Center for Integrative Medicine, suggested acupuncture to
the boy and his parents.

They agreed to try it and after a series of weekly treatments, the
child noted a dramatic drop in pain. "In the beginning, it was done
once a week for several months," Lao remembers. "When the condition
was controlled, it was less frequent." Eventually, the boy didn't
need acupuncture to control the pain.

Lao is one of a growing number of acupuncturists and other health-
care providers who offer the ancient Chinese therapy to children.
Increasingly, pediatricians are embracing the idea -- acupuncture is
now an option at about one third of the 43 pediatric pain clinics
nationwide, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics.

"It's becoming more accepted in the U.S.," says Lao, who learned the
therapy as part of his medical training in China.

The American Academy of Pediatrics thus far has no official policy
on acupuncture use on children.

But in 1997, the National Institutes of Health (NIH) issued a
general consensus statement that acupuncture can help relieve
certain conditions, such as nausea and vomiting that accompany
chemotherapy and post-operative dental pain. The NIH statement also
said acupuncture may be effective as an adjunct therapy or
alternative therapy for other conditions, such as asthma, headache,
low back pain, menstrual cramps and other problems.

Lao says acupuncture shows promise for a number of childhood health
problems, including asthma, diarrhea, loss of appetite, eating
disorders -- even attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder.

Acupuncture -- inserting fine needles into the skin -- relies on the
premise that the body has up to 2,000 "points" that are connected by
meridians (lines) of energy known as Qi ("chi"). When Qi flows well,
the body stays healthy. Acupuncture restores the balance of the
energy flow, or Qi.

While Lao says it's best to use acupuncture on a child no younger
than 5 or 6, other experts start earlier.

Dr. Lonnie Zeltzer, director of the pediatric pain program at the
David Geffen School of Medicine at the University of California, Los
Angeles, says she has used acupuncture on infants.

Combining acupuncture with other complementary medicine techniques
works well, too, Zeltzer says. In a recent study, she and her
colleagues evaluated the use of acupuncture and hypnosis together to
treat chronic pain.

They evaluated 31 children, aged 6 to 18, who had a variety of
health problems, such as gastric pain so severe they were doubled
over or migraine headaches that a pediatric neurologist could not
treat successfully.

After the needles were in place, a psychology intern performed
hypnosis during the 20-minute acupuncture sessions. Then another
researcher helped the child imagine a "favorite place," Zeltzer says.

"The overall improvement was pretty impressive," Zeltzer says. Both
parents and the children reported significant improvements in pain
after the sessions, according to the study, which appeared in the
October 2002 issue of the Journal of Pain Symptom Management.

"I actually think any pain condition is amenable to acupuncture,"
Zeltzer says, "especially those that aren't easily fixed [by other
treatments]."

The experts' advice to parents: "If their children have a common
disorder and they are concerned about side effects of medication,
they should consider acupuncture," Lao says. "They can also combine
acupuncture with conventional medicine."

Requirements for practicing acupuncture vary state by state. To be
sure an acupuncture practitioner -- whether he or she is an
acupuncturist or a physician -- is qualified, experts suggest
getting a referral from your child's pediatrician or inquiring at a
pediatric pain clinic.

Hello everyone...

   I find myself at one of life's many crossroads.  At the tender,
young age of 38 I find myself wishing to change careers (many reasons
behind this which I can share privately for those who care).  I've
long had it in my mind to study "alternative medicine" (read:
chiropractic, acupunture, or the like) after having fairly in-depth
experience with it over a course of several years both as a patient
and as an observer.   I personally experienced tremendous relief at
the hands of a chiropractor, and long-lasting healing of painful
disorders at the hand of an acupuncturist/herbologist (forgive my
terminology, I'm being specific in how I voice these experiences
because of my current education in these matters.)  I also personally
witnessed the benefits of alternative/oriental medicinal practices as
they applied to my wife who eventually died of cancer.  Her pain was
mitigated greatly at times through acupuncture.

   A little about myself:  I've been employed in the computer field
for several years, have been self employed, made my first million,
lost it, and am rebuilding that again... In other words, I've been
around the block a little.  I'm also a single dad of 4 kids.

   I find myself exceptionally interested in acupuncture and the study
of TCM.  I think that the study and application of TCM and "me" makes
a good fit.  Generally speaking I think I could succeed quite well at
this endevor.  A question comes to mind, however, in what I have
observed over the years about a 'separation' of chiropractic and
Acupuncture.  I have met several acupuncturists/TCM Doctors, and
several Chiropractors who also "use acupuncture" as part of their
therapy.  Never have I seen one person who is "good" at practicing
both.

My question is:  Why not?  At one time I was seeing a chiropractor at
the same time that I was receiving acupuncture treatment.  My
acupuncturist (a D.O. -- but we'll leave that discission alone at
this time) thought that this was a good thing, but also that he could
help the adjustments I was receiving have more effect and last
longer.  My chiropractor, on the other hand, tried to apply
acupuncture as part of my treatment with him with poor success.  It
was obvious to me that while he was a competent chiropractor, but a
mediocre (at best) acupuncturist.  Why have I never met a good
chiropractor who is also a good acupuncturist (or vice versa)?

Is there a fundamental difference in approach or doctrine?  Is it
a 'western thing'?  Something else?

I'd personally be interested in -- over the longer haul --
studying/practicing both if they complement each other the way I (in
my uneducated way) see them.  For the time being, I am leaning
strongly towards TCM/Acupuncture.

Thanx for your thoughts,

Michael Dow
Houston, TX

thanks for this very interesting reply.
But the problem remains in the yang layers, as the reverse order not only refers
to jueyin/shaoyin but also to shaoyang and yangming.
Most schools seem to have a consensus that the "right" order is tae yang, shao
yang, yang ming, but this other school says tae yang, yang ming, shao yang,
saying that the fromtier between yang and yin is shao yang.
Any suggestion?
regards

xuesheng1999 <nettlesbgood@...> wrote:
Oh yeah, about jueyin (not xueyin) and shaoyin being reversed - I was
taught both of these also and the explanation I recieved was that the
shang han lun places jueyin at the deepest, most severe position
because it has the most severe, dramatic symptoms - characterized by
various kinds of "conterflow" like cold extremities and vomiting of
roundworms. However, in ensuing centuries, vomiting of roundworms
became less prevalent and it was recognized that the kidney yin
deficient, heart fire characteristics of shaoyin disease was closer
to separation of yin and yang (which means death) so shaoyin disease
came to be seen as more severe and potentially fatal - so in this
case I think the classic is clear on one model and clinical
experience over centuries seemed to imply the other model.


--- In acupunctureforum@yahoogroups.com, gerard cal <gers522003@y...>
wrote:
> Hello, I have been learning acupuncture for several years in 2
different schools and I am surprised by a recurring difference in
their conception, which in my view is fundamental:
> 1/ according to some, the sequence of how the perverse energy
enters the body goes like this: tae yang/shao yang/yangming/tae
yin/xue yin/ shao yin
> 2/ according to others, the order is reversed in the last two
levels in yang and in yin and therefore goes like this: tae yang/yang
ming/shao yang/tae yin/shao yin/xue yin.
>
> I believe this fundamental difference has important implications
and I would welcome your comments to contribute putting an end to
this recurring bone of contention among various schools.
> Kind Regards
> Gerard
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

thanks for this usefull answer.
The problem is that in some cases a therapeut will consider one of the sequence
as a parameter to deteremine his/her treatment. And this is where it could
trigger problems. And many other schools consider yang ming as the pivot between
internal and external... so this is why I find it difficult to solve.
Kind regards
Gerard


xuesheng1999 <nettlesbgood@...> wrote:I was taught that both orders are
possible and both have a textual
basis in the classics. Usually, shaoyang is seen as the pivot between
internal and external, and the clinical manifestations reflect that
(chills and fever alternating). Sometimes a yangming condition
appears as being more internal than shaoyang (deeper in the body-the
bowels- and more severe) but malaria is a shaoyang disease and is
more severe than a little burning anus that might come from eating
pakistani food (thats good stuff!)- The shang han lun, the text from
which this theory comes, even states that a disease could attack a
level other than taiyang first, so really, anythings possible.

Its not really a contradiction of theories as it is an observation of
the various ways things can work in nature.


--- In acupunctureforum@yahoogroups.com, gerard cal <gers522003@y...>
wrote:
> Hello, I have been learning acupuncture for several years in 2
different schools and I am surprised by a recurring difference in
their conception, which in my view is fundamental:
> 1/ according to some, the sequence of how the perverse energy
enters the body goes like this: tae yang/shao yang/yangming/tae
yin/xue yin/ shao yin
> 2/ according to others, the order is reversed in the last two
levels in yang and in yin and therefore goes like this: tae yang/yang
ming/shao yang/tae yin/shao yin/xue yin.
>
> I believe this fundamental difference has important implications
and I would welcome your comments to contribute putting an end to
this recurring bone of contention among various schools.
> Kind Regards
> Gerard
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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