The book is very helpful when deciding if a new man or woman is an alcoholic.

In the Chapter Working with Others it suggests we talk to the new person, to find out as much as we can about that new person, "tell our story" of how you drank and how  you have found a way out that allowed you to rejoin the life  you have today, a story of hope that required you to give up some old ideas and remember she is helping you more than you are helping her. And listen to theirs.

If you are convinced she is an alcoholic, you must decide also how to proceed. you are the recovered one.

If you think she is not an alcoholic.. you do not want to waste her time or yours and you could actually be hurting her by giving her a "force feeding  of AA before she cares to admit she has a problem. Which if she is showing signs of alcoholism hopefully will not be to long. Remember you only want to be helpful.

Being in Jail is not a symptom of alcoholism, it could be  sign of her life becoming unmanageable, but maybe its her "normal". And not a sign to her, by my standards it is not normal, but back in the day it was just a part of drinking and very very normal.

If her entire family has been to jail, that is normal, it may suck for all involved. So you have to find out as much as you can about this new person.

One question you can ask?

Do you want to quit? The most important question you can ask a new person.

This will cut to the chase. Not,  do You want her to quit, not does her family need her to quit, not is she willing to quit to get your children back. Not frothy emotional appeal.

1) Do YOU want to quit. For good,  without reservations. You can assure her this is possible you are living proof. You have found a way out and are willing to show it to her if she wants it.

The next question,

Can you Quit by yourself.

Can you walk out of this jail and never touch another drop? If she thinks she can.. again you are not looking for that "type". She maybe a heavy drinker and this jail stint can be the catalyst of a sudden desire to stop drinking. Now this is a gate opener, if she is "afraid" that she will drink again? Well that is an internal sign she can't quit, which is a self admission of personal powerlessness over alcohol. Not the world. One of I need help, admitting a certain "lack of power".

The next question:

Do you believe in a power greater than yourself?

Because AA is not for everyone and we have to layout the program of action to the new person, which is about finding a power greater than ourselves that will solve our problem. Not the jail problem, the alcohol problem.

The next question I have two suggestions,

One is 

What you willing to do to get well?

The only answer we are looking for is ANYTHING. Any lengths.

Or you can ask this question:

Base on the reply to the question of do you believe:

Would She,  be willing to go to this Higher Power and ask for help, calmly and without any reservations.

Then leave and let her decide without any pushing or prodding, the desire to find God, must come from with in.

Our definition of alcoholism is one that has lost control of their drinking, the delusion that we are or will ever become "normal drinkers" and lost the power of choice.

By telling my story to I saw where as it was explained in the Doctor's opinion : I could admit this was true "Men and women drink essentially because they like the effect produced by alcohol. The sensation is so elusive that, while they admit it is injurious, they cannot after a time differentiate the true from the false. To them, their alcoholic life seems the only normal one. They are restless, irritable and discontented, unless they can again experience the sense of ease and comfort which comes at once by taking a few drinks-drinks which they see others taking with impunity. After they have succumbed to the desire again, as so many do, and the phenomenon of craving develops, they pass through the well-known stages of a spree, emerging remorseful, with a firm resolution not to drink again(this can be done with oaths or without oaths, or in jails or not in jails, to my wife or to my employer, to my family or not to my family, to a judge or not to a judge this list of promised people, some I really loved. Those people that I drank over that I could not escape my "remorse". I really meant it when I told my wife I loved her and  I would quit). This is repeated over and over(this is true, I would swear off booze for ever, I had no idea I was powerless over it, that the first drink set up a chain reaction that was beyond my control, mentally or physically) , and unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is very little hope of his recovery.

So what does that mean? Powerless, to some it means I am a weak, a slug crawling on a walk, no backbone, no will power. Just a slimy little piece of skin.. not fit to breath. I had tons of will power.. I had accomplished in my mind at least, great things.. I am not weak. And admitting to myself, was the honesty that I had tried for years to drink over and not look at. It does not matter that I come into a room like AA and say, I'm an alcoholic, I can lie to the best..but the honesty we are looking for is SELF admission. Some go insane and to death, because they are not capable to do this. I cannot accept a new Power to solve my problem if I cannot be honest with myself that I have a deadly problem that I am powerless over. and accept the first half of the first step.

I hope this helps, we are not saviors, we only carry the message and if she does not want what you have or unable to admit to herself she has a problem with alcohol. You are wasting your time.

You may try to point out in your story the months or years of unmanageability, due to your drinking, often by seeing in others, my story I am allowed to look at myself.  This is the power of one drunk talking to another, we have the gift to attain another's confidence because we speak the same game.

"spiritus contra spiritum"

                                               Carl Jung

Terry W
--- In We_Have_Recovered@yahoogroups.com, Tammy C <tomatolcook@...> wrote:
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> Note: forwarded message attached.
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> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
> Muncie AA,
> I have a woman at the jail who is having trouble with the first step. Does anyone have any ESH that I can copy/paste and give to her for further reading? I would like her to have other AA member's points of view, for a switch. Also, is there anything that I can print off for her from the Big Book, or is there anything else I can get for her to read?Has anyone here had trouble with the word, "powerless"? I have found this word to be difficult for some feminist-minded, strong women. I have tried to stress that the word applies to her use of alcohol and not over other aspects of being a strong-minded female.
> I believe this lady is inspirational in many areas of recovery and for the other women around her, and she has the capacity to be honest with herself and others. I think she has a great deal of potential. I hate to see her struggle with this vital first step and then end back up in jail again.
> I was thinking of printing "More About Alcoholism." Last week she informed me that she wasn't having problems with the second or third step but it is the "powerless" part of the first step that is bothering her.
> W/ Gratitude,
> Tammy
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> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
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