Well, it's almost time for my next batch of Chicken
stock.

Does anyone have a good source of Chicken Feet in our
area?  I know that the feet are a great source of
gelatin, and would really like to try adding some in.

Regards,

Carol
Chapter Leader, Sacramento Metro




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OK, I think it's time for me to make an appointment -
that's just too convenient.  And here I was ready to
take a day off and go to San Francisco.  I'll just
have to find another excuse for that :-)

I've been with Kaiser Permanente for awhile, but am
planning to change insurance companies starting in
Feb.  Anyone have a good recommendation of a company
that covers holistically-oriented docs in the
Sacramento area?

Regards,

Carol
Chapter Leader, Sacramento Metro


> See Dr. Cowan's website at:  www.fourfoldhealing.com
>
> Click on "About Dr. Cowan" on the menu to the left
> of the page, and
> then scroll down near the bottom of the page where
> his schedule and
> contact information are displayed.




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Candace, thanks for posting this.  Great article!

Interesting to know about turkey being the least
contaminated.  For times when you can't get organic,
that's good to know.  I wish turkey appeared as a
choice on more restaurant menus.

I'm just back from a weekend getaway, and packed a lot
of my own lunches but we ate dinners out several
nights. I'm probably over-thinking it, but sometimes
it really is a difficult choice when faced with
figuring out the "lesser of the evils" on a restaurant
menu - do I pick something that is likely to have veg
oils and bad fats, or something that might have MSG,
etc.  Would love to hear more about how you guys
balance choices like this.

Regards,

Carol
Chapter Leader, Sacramento Metro


> Turkey, however, is the least contaminated type of
> meat, containing no detectable pesticide residues
> due to its extremely low fat content.





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Hi Steven,

Welcome to our group...however...I just want to check
that you're in the right place (??).

When I looked at your website, I saw that a note
saying that "Raw Friends was created to enhance and
embrace a raw, vegan or vegetarian lifestyle."

While the Weston A. Price Foundation does promote such
foods such as raw dairy, it's definitely not a vegan
or vegetarian group.  In the travels of Dr. Price, all
of the extremely healthy isolated populations that he
visited had some type of animal products in their
diet, sometimes eat raw.

Regards,

Carol
Chapter Leader, Sacramento Metro


--- Steven Gibb <rawfasting@...> wrote:

> Please go to
> http://www.rawfriends.com/andressohns.html where you
> can
> make a difference.





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Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
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Hello friends!

After another 14 day fast I'm back in the saddle helping the
Andressohn family.

Some of you have been instrumental in helping with different portions
of the website and I tip my hat to you. However, it's now time to
make the site work for its intended purpose which is to help the
Andressohn family with their battle against the state of Florida. I
have attached a letter you may print out to pass on or forward to
your e-mail list. This battle is NOT just about the food…rather it's
about their rights and your rights. If you have children, take a
moment to place yourself in their shoes and ask yourself what it
would be like to not see them for 18 months. Don't let this case set
a precedence for other families with children.

Please go to http://www.rawfriends.com/andressohns.html where you can
make a difference.

Warmly,

Steven Gibb
Coordinator

Ps, be sure to check out the "other ways to donate" page as you may
have clothes or other items that could be more useful than money!

If you're wondering what  means -- it was supposed to be a
bullet symbol.  I typed the document in Word and pasted it into my
message.  I'll have to remember to change those in the future.


--- In WAPF-Sacramento@yahoogroups.com, "Candace" <cmelehani@c...>
wrote:
>
> Hi group,
>
> Hope everyone is healthy and happy.  It's nice to see the group
> continuing to grow.
>
> I checked out a book at the library entitled Breast Cancer
Prevention
> Program by Samuel Epstein, M.D.  Take a look at these excerpts
> involving our food supply:
>
> Breast cancer rates continue to climb, with this disease striking
> more women every year, and yet information about known risks and
> prevention strategies is not reaching you.  The cancer
establishment
> has a vested interest in keeping you focused on early detection,
> treatment, and basic genetic research rather than on reducing the
> risks for developing the disease.  This book provides all the
> medically sound and scientifically documented information currently
> available about known risk factors for this devastating disease and
> offers equally sound advice about how to avoid these risks in your
> own life.
>
> The popular theory that eating fatty foods during adulthood greatly
> increases cancer risk is losing ground.  Converging lines of
evidence
> including animal studies, wildlife reports, test-tube experiments
and
> human studies make one fact clear: it's not the fat itself that
> increases the risk, it's what's in the fat.  What the cancer
> establishment isn't telling you is that dietary fat contains a wide
> range of contaminants—pesticides, industrial pollutants, and sex
> hormones known to cause breast cancer and/or to have estrogen-like
> affects.
>
> The food industry has developed and continues to use potent and
> potentially toxic chemicals to grow and market enormous quantities
of
> agricultural and other products and sell them at a huge profit.
The
> most important of such chemicals are: pesticides that kill crop
pests
> as inexpensively as possible, but then leave residues that pose
> hazards to consumers; sex and growth hormones that bolster meat and
> dairy products; plastic wrapping and packaging products; food
> coloring dyes; and radioactive pollutants from nuclear power plants.
>
> Every type of food you eat may be contaminated with pollutants that
> could significantly raise your risk of developing breast cancer.
> Beef and dairy products are the most contaminated products we eat,
> with residues of DDT and other chlorinated pesticides, antibiotics,
> veterinary drugs, and growth-stimulating sex hormones.
>
> Pork products are relatively lean meats and, as such, contain much
> lower levels of pesticides than beef.  However, supermarket pork
> products such as ham and bacon contain nitrite preservatives that
> combine with other chemicals in the meat or in the human body to
form
> nitrosamines, which are very potent cancer-causing chemicals.
Sulfa
> drugs—known to be carcinogenic to the thyroid gland—are also likely
> to contaminate pork products.
>
> Pesticides can also be found in chicken, though again at much lower
> levels than in beef due to the lower fat content of poultry.  Low
> levels of antibiotics, which can cause allergic reactions as well
as
> breed super-resistant strains of bacteria, also taint chicken.
>
> Turkey, however, is the least contaminated type of meat, containing
> no detectable pesticide residues due to its extremely low fat
> content.  Wild venison and wild boar tend to be safe as well.
>
> Fish of all types in the United States may be contaminated as
well.
> Fish from industrialized waterways, including the Mississippi and
> Missouri rivers, the Great Lakes, and the inland waters of New
York,
> Ohio, and New Jersey, contain a wide range of pseudoestrogens and
> breast carcinogens.
>
> Considering the amount of pollution in our waterways, it should
come
> as no surprise that carcinogenic pesticides and other industrial
> pollutants also contaminate our drinking water.  An Environmental
> Working Group conducted a recent sampling of water in the Midwest,
> Maryland, and Louisiana found that tap water in 28 of 29 cities
> contained atrazine, a pseudoestrogenic herbicide known to cause
human
> ovarian cancer, as well as breast cancer in rodents.  About one
> million Californians consume water with detectable concentrations
of
> the breast carcinogen dibromochloropropane.
>
> Even fruits and vegetables may be highly contaminated.  Endosulfan,
a
> pesticide related to DDT, is found on many fruits and vegetables
and
> represents the seventh most commonly detected pesticide residue in
> food.  Recently, the United States Federal Insecticide, Fungicide
and
> Rodenticide Act gave a green light to California raisin and
> strawberry growers, as well as to Washington state apple growers,
to
> use the DDT-containing pesticide dicofol on food crops.
>
> It's not only the food you eat that might put you at risk for
breast
> cancer, it's also how the food is packaged.  Packaging material
such
> as styrene cups, trays for microwaving prepared foods, and the
lining
> of canned foods also may contain pseudoestrogens and carcinogens
that
> migrate into foods, particularly when stored for long periods or
> heated at high temperatures.
>
> The use of carcinogenic food colors, specifically Red Dye No. 3,
> remains widespread, and may be one reason that breast cancer rates
> continue to mount. The food industry uses Red Dye No. 3 to color
> marachino cherries, bubble gum, and a wide range of snack foods and
> baked products.  In 1990, the FDA discontinued the use of
all "lake"
> forms of Red Dye No. 3—the form used to make external drugs and
> cosmetics—because of reports that the chemical caused thyroid
cancer
> in rats, but still allows its use as a food dye.
>
> What can you do?
>
> &#61623; Eat certified organic meats and poultry, which are free of
hormones
> and pesticides.
>
> &#61623; Consume organic dairy products.
>
> &#61623; Your best choices of fish are deep-sea species like Arctic
char,
> halibut, orange roughy, red snapper, sea bass, and tuna.  Wild
shrimp
> and lobsters from Australia, California, Mexico, and New Zealand
are
> also safe.
>
> &#61623; Opt for organic fruits and vegetables whenever possible.
>
> &#61623; Research your drinking water to make sure you are not
exposing your
> body to contamination.  Request a water quality report from your
> municipality.  If you find your water is indeed contaminated, you
> might want to purchase a treatment unit.
>
> &#61623; Whenever possible, avoid buying canned foods or foods
wrapped in
> plastic.  If you cannot do this, make sure you remove the foods
from
> the packaging as soon as possible.  Use glass cookware for oven or
> microwave.
>
> I'VE HEARD ALL OF THESE RECOMMENDATIONS SOMEWHERE BEFORE, HOW ABOUT
> YOU?  WAPF!!!
>
> P.S. - The book contains other recommendations related to the use
of
> prescription drugs, mammograms and other medical x-rays, alcohol,
> tobacco, pesticides in and around our homes and workplaces, hair
dyes
> and silicone gel breast implants.

Hi group,

Hope everyone is healthy and happy.  It's nice to see the group
continuing to grow.

I checked out a book at the library entitled Breast Cancer Prevention
Program by Samuel Epstein, M.D.  Take a look at these excerpts
involving our food supply:

Breast cancer rates continue to climb, with this disease striking
more women every year, and yet information about known risks and
prevention strategies is not reaching you.  The cancer establishment
has a vested interest in keeping you focused on early detection,
treatment, and basic genetic research rather than on reducing the
risks for developing the disease.  This book provides all the
medically sound and scientifically documented information currently
available about known risk factors for this devastating disease and
offers equally sound advice about how to avoid these risks in your
own life.

The popular theory that eating fatty foods during adulthood greatly
increases cancer risk is losing ground.  Converging lines of evidence
including animal studies, wildlife reports, test-tube experiments and
human studies make one fact clear: it's not the fat itself that
increases the risk, it's what's in the fat.  What the cancer
establishment isn't telling you is that dietary fat contains a wide
range of contaminants—pesticides, industrial pollutants, and sex
hormones known to cause breast cancer and/or to have estrogen-like
affects.

The food industry has developed and continues to use potent and
potentially toxic chemicals to grow and market enormous quantities of
agricultural and other products and sell them at a huge profit.  The
most important of such chemicals are: pesticides that kill crop pests
as inexpensively as possible, but then leave residues that pose
hazards to consumers; sex and growth hormones that bolster meat and
dairy products; plastic wrapping and packaging products; food
coloring dyes; and radioactive pollutants from nuclear power plants.

Every type of food you eat may be contaminated with pollutants that
could significantly raise your risk of developing breast cancer.
Beef and dairy products are the most contaminated products we eat,
with residues of DDT and other chlorinated pesticides, antibiotics,
veterinary drugs, and growth-stimulating sex hormones.

Pork products are relatively lean meats and, as such, contain much
lower levels of pesticides than beef.  However, supermarket pork
products such as ham and bacon contain nitrite preservatives that
combine with other chemicals in the meat or in the human body to form
nitrosamines, which are very potent cancer-causing chemicals.  Sulfa
drugs—known to be carcinogenic to the thyroid gland—are also likely
to contaminate pork products.

Pesticides can also be found in chicken, though again at much lower
levels than in beef due to the lower fat content of poultry.  Low
levels of antibiotics, which can cause allergic reactions as well as
breed super-resistant strains of bacteria, also taint chicken.

Turkey, however, is the least contaminated type of meat, containing
no detectable pesticide residues due to its extremely low fat
content.  Wild venison and wild boar tend to be safe as well.

Fish of all types in the United States may be contaminated as well.
Fish from industrialized waterways, including the Mississippi and
Missouri rivers, the Great Lakes, and the inland waters of New York,
Ohio, and New Jersey, contain a wide range of pseudoestrogens and
breast carcinogens.

Considering the amount of pollution in our waterways, it should come
as no surprise that carcinogenic pesticides and other industrial
pollutants also contaminate our drinking water.  An Environmental
Working Group conducted a recent sampling of water in the Midwest,
Maryland, and Louisiana found that tap water in 28 of 29 cities
contained atrazine, a pseudoestrogenic herbicide known to cause human
ovarian cancer, as well as breast cancer in rodents.  About one
million Californians consume water with detectable concentrations of
the breast carcinogen dibromochloropropane.

Even fruits and vegetables may be highly contaminated.  Endosulfan, a
pesticide related to DDT, is found on many fruits and vegetables and
represents the seventh most commonly detected pesticide residue in
food.  Recently, the United States Federal Insecticide, Fungicide and
Rodenticide Act gave a green light to California raisin and
strawberry growers, as well as to Washington state apple growers, to
use the DDT-containing pesticide dicofol on food crops.

It's not only the food you eat that might put you at risk for breast
cancer, it's also how the food is packaged.  Packaging material such
as styrene cups, trays for microwaving prepared foods, and the lining
of canned foods also may contain pseudoestrogens and carcinogens that
migrate into foods, particularly when stored for long periods or
heated at high temperatures.

The use of carcinogenic food colors, specifically Red Dye No. 3,
remains widespread, and may be one reason that breast cancer rates
continue to mount. The food industry uses Red Dye No. 3 to color
marachino cherries, bubble gum, and a wide range of snack foods and
baked products.  In 1990, the FDA discontinued the use of all "lake"
forms of Red Dye No. 3—the form used to make external drugs and
cosmetics—because of reports that the chemical caused thyroid cancer
in rats, but still allows its use as a food dye.

What can you do?

 Eat certified organic meats and poultry, which are free of hormones
and pesticides.

 Consume organic dairy products.

 Your best choices of fish are deep-sea species like Arctic char,
halibut, orange roughy, red snapper, sea bass, and tuna.  Wild shrimp
and lobsters from Australia, California, Mexico, and New Zealand are
also safe.

 Opt for organic fruits and vegetables whenever possible.

 Research your drinking water to make sure you are not exposing your
body to contamination.  Request a water quality report from your
municipality.  If you find your water is indeed contaminated, you
might want to purchase a treatment unit.

 Whenever possible, avoid buying canned foods or foods wrapped in
plastic.  If you cannot do this, make sure you remove the foods from
the packaging as soon as possible.  Use glass cookware for oven or
microwave.

I'VE HEARD ALL OF THESE RECOMMENDATIONS SOMEWHERE BEFORE, HOW ABOUT
YOU?  WAPF!!!

P.S. - The book contains other recommendations related to the use of
prescription drugs, mammograms and other medical x-rays, alcohol,
tobacco, pesticides in and around our homes and workplaces, hair dyes
and silicone gel breast implants.

Sunrise Farmers Market is woefully needful of organic produce.  I went
there expecting to find beets for beet kvass.  Not!  We went to the one on
the corner of Watt and El Camino a few times (happens at the same time) and
there was one (I think) organic farmer with limited amounts and variety.
That was a long time ago and I don't know what the situation is now.... So
what's with this lack of organic produce?  Davis Farmer's market I think
has much more (wed eve and Saturday morning)
Olivia


Nice to meet you.  Thanks for the tip on the olive oil.  I haven't <BR>
been to the Sunrise Farmers Market.  Do they usually have organic <BR>
produce for sale?  The Farmers Market in El Dorado Hills doesn't have <BR>
much in the way of organic produce--I only saw one booth when I went <BR>
last summer.<BR>


--------------------------------------------------------------------
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Hi Olivia,

Nice to meet you.  Thanks for the tip on the olive oil.  I haven't
been to the Sunrise Farmers Market.  Do they usually have organic
produce for sale?  The Farmers Market in El Dorado Hills doesn't have
much in the way of organic produce--I only saw one booth when I went
last summer.

--- In WAPF-Sacramento@yahoogroups.com, "ohuff@d..." <ohuff@d...>
wrote:
> You can also get Bariani Olive Oil @ the Sunrise Farmers Market on
Saturday
> mornings.
> Olivia
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .

Hi Amy & Carol,

See Dr. Cowan's website at:  www.fourfoldhealing.com

Click on "About Dr. Cowan" on the menu to the left of the page, and
then scroll down near the bottom of the page where his schedule and
contact information are displayed.



--- In WAPF-Sacramento@yahoogroups.com, amy kaplan <kbarh@c...> wrote:
> This is so exciting to find out! What days and where and how to
make an
> appt?
>
> A
> On Thursday, January 6, 2005, at 10:53  PM, Carol Lorenger wrote:
>
> >
> > Actually, I've been thinking about calling Dr. Cowan
> > for an appointment myself.  I'd forgotten that he made
> > Fair Oaks visits - which is even better.
> >
> > I've had some numbness and swelling in my feet and
> > legs for over a year and half, and, as you mentioned,
> > the typical doctor's office visit has not given me
> > much to go on other than "venous insufficiency" and a
> > recommendation of diuretics. Bah!
> >
> > So thanks for the reminder!
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Carol
> > Chapter Leader, Sacramento Metro
> >
> >> I had an interesting experience today—I went to see
> >> Dr. Cowan for the
> >> first time today.  He sees patients in old town Fair
> >> Oaks a couple of
> >> days every month.  I've had a health problem the
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
> > http://my.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

This note was circulating on another group I belong
to, and it gave me a chuckle

Carol
Chapter Leader, Sacramento Metro

----------------------------------------------

Want to have some fun with the big drug companies?

Put on whatever clothes you have that might be
described as "scruffy," top off your outfit with a
favorite baseball cap, and then drop by the offices of
one of the giant drug firms. What you do then is up to
you, but don't be surprised if security guards give
you the bum's rush before you even reach the
receptionist's desk.

It seems that America's largest drug companies are on
full alert for anyone who fits the description of
documentary filmmaker Michael Moore. For his next film
project Mr. Moore is training his sights on the
questionable relationships between the FDA, drug
giants, HMOs and insurance companies. According to the
Los Angeles Times, several drug companies have
distributed memos to warn their employees that a
"scruffy guy in a baseball cap" might try to get them
to reveal something embarrassing about the drug
industry.

Just one problem. A couple of weeks ago, when Michael
Moore appeared on the Tonight show, he was wearing a
suit, no baseball cap and was clean-shaven.

Revised memo to employees: Be wary of a scruffy guy in
a baseball cap who may be disguised as a not scruffy
guy not wearing a baseball cap.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter a bit if no one from the
drug industry agrees to talk to Mr. Moore. As we've
seen over the past few years, many of the
indiscretions of that industry have been shockingly
transparent, so I'm pretty sure that Moore isn't going
to come away empty-handed.




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This is so exciting to find out! What days and where and how to make an
appt?

A
On Thursday, January 6, 2005, at 10:53  PM, Carol Lorenger wrote:

>
> Actually, I've been thinking about calling Dr. Cowan
> for an appointment myself.  I'd forgotten that he made
> Fair Oaks visits - which is even better.
>
> I've had some numbness and swelling in my feet and
> legs for over a year and half, and, as you mentioned,
> the typical doctor's office visit has not given me
> much to go on other than "venous insufficiency" and a
> recommendation of diuretics. Bah!
>
> So thanks for the reminder!
>
> Regards,
>
> Carol
> Chapter Leader, Sacramento Metro
>
>> I had an interesting experience today—I went to see
>> Dr. Cowan for the
>> first time today.  He sees patients in old town Fair
>> Oaks a couple of
>> days every month.  I've had a health problem the
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Yes, Raw Dairy is a great list! I learned a lot when I was reading it
every day but I could not keep up so I let it go.

Carol, you've probably seen me post on discussing NT then?

A
On Thursday, January 6, 2005, at 10:57  PM, Carol Lorenger wrote:

>
>
> I'm on the "Discussing NT" list, but mainly as a
> listener.  I've heard the Raw Dairy list is a great
> source, but very high volume of email, so haven't
> signed up for that one yet.
>
> I'm also on the WAPF-SF list, and plan to ask
> Sandrine, the chapter leader, if will be OK to post
> some of their events on our list (lectures and
> seminars, etc.)
>
> Regards,
>
> Carol
> Chapter Leader, Sacramento Metro
>
>> The two NT Yahoo groups I belong too are:  native
>> family tradtions and
>> discussing NT. Do either on of you belong?
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo!
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

You can also get Bariani Olive Oil @ the Sunrise Farmers Market on Saturday
mornings.
Olivia

On the other issues, I work downtown so it's convenient to stop at <BR>
Sacramento Natural Foods Co-op to pick up a few things.  They carry <BR>
some items that I haven't been able to find at The Whole Foods Market—<BR>
like Celtic Sea Salt and Bariani Olive Oil.  Their beef is also grass <BR>
fed, whereas most of the beef at The Whole Foods Market is not.  <BR>
However, I like the atmosphere at the Whole Foods Market better, and <BR>
I like that their meat is wrapped in paper rather than plastic.<BR>
<BR>


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .

Hi all,
We are members of the Raphael Gardens CSA (biodynamic) at Rudolf Steiner
College in Fair oaks.  I think they have a waiting list to join...but you
can put yourselves on it... They just(Dec 23) got a cow (Bella) whom I
haven't met yet, but I understand they will be/are selling cow shares for
the milk.  I wasn't interested in fresh milk back when, so I am on the
waiting list now for her.

We love Dru and Paul from Full Belly and have done a lot with them in the
past.

Olivia



I'm currently buying most of my food at the The Whole Foods Market <BR>
and the Sacramento Food Co-op.  At one time, I was a member of the <BR>
Full Belly Farm CSA.  They deliver boxes of organic produce to a <BR>
neighborhood delivery site in the Sacramento area once a week for $15 <BR>
per week.  It might be something worth looking into.  I think the <BR>
cost is more reasonable than the store, but you don't get to pick the <BR>
items you want.  I don't know of any other farms.  Have other members <BR>
located good sources of whole foods?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</tt>


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Oh, I have not been doing broth like I should. I have a lot of
carcasses in the freezer and some broth. I just forget.

I love it though. And I love the way my house smells when I am making
broth, like my grandma's--who always made chicken soup for me when I
came to visit.

AMY
On Thursday, January 6, 2005, at 10:46  PM, Carol Lorenger wrote:

> Yes, I've been doing quite a bit of broth, and I love
> it!  By using the heads, it also helps get my
> temperature up in the normal range, as I tend to run a
> bit cold and have been monitoring for thyroid/adrenal
> issues.
>
> I know NT doesn't recommend salmon, but I was given
> some salmon heads, and decided to give it a try
> anyway, and it was delicious!  I only cooked it for 4
> hrs though.  There are quite a few bones in a salmon
> head (I've come to find out..)
>
> Right now, my freezer is full of fish, chicken, turkey
> (from leftover Christmas turkey carcass) and that
> delicious beef soup that was in the last issue of Wise
> Traditions. 
>
> Regards,
>
> Carol
> Chapter Leader, Sacramento Metro
>
>
> > Do you guys make broth?  I'd like to try fish broth
> > too, but I don't
> > know where to get the fish bones.  I'm currently
> > buying ocean caught
> > salmon at The Whole Foods Market and ocean caught
> > orange roughy from
> > New Zealand at Trader Joes, but neither contains
> > bones.  I think
> > salmon is too oily anyway.
>
>
>
>            
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yup!

I have a wonderful recipe for coconut almond joy. Lovely.

A
On Thursday, January 6, 2005, at 10:36  PM, Carol Lorenger wrote:

>
> Oh, yes! I feel exactly the same.  My officemates were
> having a long debate today (in the post holiday diet
> craze you mentioned) about canola oil. 
>
> And when they asked me if I used canola, I said "No, I
> do better on butter, olive oil and coconut oil." And
> of course their eyes got reaaaallly big.  :-)
>
> Regards,
>
> Carol
> Chapter Leader, Sacramento Metro
>
>
> --- amy kaplan <kbarh@...> wrote:
>
> > message nonstop. I just want to shake people and
> > say, "no, no eat your
> > coconut oil!" Although I have to admit that I still
>
>
>
>      
>            
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>
> •  To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WAPF-Sacramento/
>  
> •  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WAPF-Sacramento-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> •  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>

I'm on the "Discussing NT" list, but mainly as a
listener.  I've heard the Raw Dairy list is a great
source, but very high volume of email, so haven't
signed up for that one yet.

I'm also on the WAPF-SF list, and plan to ask
Sandrine, the chapter leader, if will be OK to post
some of their events on our list (lectures and
seminars, etc.)

Regards,

Carol
Chapter Leader, Sacramento Metro

> The two NT Yahoo groups I belong too are:  native
> family tradtions and
> discussing NT. Do either on of you belong?




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Actually, I've been thinking about calling Dr. Cowan
for an appointment myself.  I'd forgotten that he made
Fair Oaks visits - which is even better.

I've had some numbness and swelling in my feet and
legs for over a year and half, and, as you mentioned,
the typical doctor's office visit has not given me
much to go on other than "venous insufficiency" and a
recommendation of diuretics. Bah!

So thanks for the reminder!

Regards,

Carol
Chapter Leader, Sacramento Metro

> I had an interesting experience today—I went to see
> Dr. Cowan for the
> first time today.  He sees patients in old town Fair
> Oaks a couple of
> days every month.  I've had a health problem the




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Yes, I've been doing quite a bit of broth, and I love
it!  By using the heads, it also helps get my
temperature up in the normal range, as I tend to run a
bit cold and have been monitoring for thyroid/adrenal
issues.

I know NT doesn't recommend salmon, but I was given
some salmon heads, and decided to give it a try
anyway, and it was delicious!  I only cooked it for 4
hrs though.  There are quite a few bones in a salmon
head (I've come to find out..)

Right now, my freezer is full of fish, chicken, turkey
(from leftover Christmas turkey carcass) and that
delicious beef soup that was in the last issue of Wise
Traditions.

Regards,

Carol
Chapter Leader, Sacramento Metro


> Do you guys make broth?  I'd like to try fish broth
> too, but I don't
> know where to get the fish bones.  I'm currently
> buying ocean caught
> salmon at The Whole Foods Market and ocean caught
> orange roughy from
> New Zealand at Trader Joes, but neither contains
> bones.  I think
> salmon is too oily anyway.




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Oh, yes! I feel exactly the same.  My officemates were
having a long debate today (in the post holiday diet
craze you mentioned) about canola oil.

And when they asked me if I used canola, I said "No, I
do better on butter, olive oil and coconut oil." And
of course their eyes got reaaaallly big.  :-)

Regards,

Carol
Chapter Leader, Sacramento Metro


--- amy kaplan <kbarh@...> wrote:

> message nonstop. I just want to shake people and
> say, "no, no eat your
> coconut oil!" Although I have to admit that I still





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Welcome to our group!

Yes, I very much agree.  It's frightening to find out
what is in some of the stuff that typical American
supermarkets and many restaurants are serving us.

One of the shocking things that I learned from the
WAPF conference this year, is that, if an ingredient
is considered an "industry standard" it doesn't have
to appear on the label of the food item.  So for
example, many commercial ice creams contain propylene
glycol (the same chemical used in antifreeze) but it
doesn't show up on the label. I was really annoyed by
this, having spent years carefully reading and
interpreting labels.

Anyway, I'm glad you're here.  Have you tried any of
the bread recipes in Nourishing Traditions (NT)?

Regards,

Carol
Chapter Leader, Sacramento Metro

--- nochoice101 <macdon1@...> wrote:

>
> and the American diet is processed junk!  I am so
> glad to join this
> group so I can learn more about REAL FOOD.  I was 12
> years old when
> they started putting preservatives in bread and had
> headaches for
> years afterwards until I found out what that stuff
> was. I will be
> looking forward to learning.




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Hi Carol, Amy, and nochoice101,

It's great to hear from all of you.

I had an interesting experience today—I went to see Dr. Cowan for the
first time today.  He sees patients in old town Fair Oaks a couple of
days every month.  I've had a health problem the last couple of
years, and I've been to doctors and specialists and none have been
much help.  They only consider the body parts assigned to their area
of expertise, and they routinely prescribe drugs that mask the
symptoms but don't deal with the underlying causes.  I really wanted
to see someone who believed in the WAPF philosophy, and I was
thrilled to learn that Dr. Cowan sees patients here.

My problem is not life threatening—thank goodness—but the symptoms
can be very uncomfortable. Basically, I am unable to tolerate certain
foods, mainly grains, acidic foods, and aged foods, like yogurt and
cheese.  Eating these things causes bladder pain, burning sensations
on certain areas of the body, and allergic rashes.  It took quite
awhile to figure out what foods were aggravating the symptoms.  I'm
doing much better now, but I'm just controlling the problem rather
than solving it.  I want to be able to eat normally again!!

Dr. Cowan believes it's a gut problem—I'm apparently not digesting my
foods properly, and the undigested proteins are causing my body to
react as it does.  He prescribed some diet changes and some natural
medicines.  One of the diet changes is that I have to eat homemade
broth one to three times a day, preferably three times—every day.
Broth is supposed to be great for healing the gut.  I'm going to be
making broth constantly!!  I've made chicken broth before but never
beef broth.  Since I have the day off tomorrow, I'm going to make
broth.  I got some knucklebones at the Co-op today, and I already had
some ribs from The Whole Foods Market.  I hope it turns out well.
I'm going to have to like this stuff.

Do you guys make broth?  I'd like to try fish broth too, but I don't
know where to get the fish bones.  I'm currently buying ocean caught
salmon at The Whole Foods Market and ocean caught orange roughy from
New Zealand at Trader Joes, but neither contains bones.  I think
salmon is too oily anyway.

I know how you feel, Amy, about not wanting to give people advice
about their diets.   I feel the same, since I'm having health issues
of my own.  Hopefully, I'll be the picture of health by the end of
the year.  I believe 2005 is going to be a good year for me.

On the other issues, I work downtown so it's convenient to stop at
Sacramento Natural Foods Co-op to pick up a few things.  They carry
some items that I haven't been able to find at The Whole Foods Market—
like Celtic Sea Salt and Bariani Olive Oil.  Their beef is also grass
fed, whereas most of the beef at The Whole Foods Market is not.
However, I like the atmosphere at the Whole Foods Market better, and
I like that their meat is wrapped in paper rather than plastic.

I just started eating raw milk and dairy about two months ago.  My
Mom always stressed, "Whatever you do, don't eat raw dairy."  So it
took me a little while to accept the idea.  I read a lot about it,
and decided it was just a corporate media campaign to eliminate the
competition from small farmers.  I like raw dairy, but it's pretty
pricey.  I generally buy the Organic Pastures raw butter and milk
because they have such a great reputation for cleanliness, but I'm
only using about a ½ gallon of milk a week.  If I'm cooking with
butter, I use Strauss butter.

I used to be a member of the Full Belly Farm CSA, but I was riding
the commuter bus at the time and it was kind of inconvenient having
to carry a box of produce home on the bus.  One of my co-workers
picked it up for me at the delivery site.  It was kind of fun getting
the box every week.  I never knew what would be in it, and it was a
nice surprise.  I ended up wasting some of the produce, but I eat
many more vegetables now than I did then so I don't believe I would
have that problem if I signed up again.

I'm not familiar with the native family traditions and the discussing
NT Yahoo groups, but I'm going to check them out.  Thanks for the
tip.

Once again, it's great to meet you guys.  It's nice to have someone
to talk to about this stuff.

and the American diet is processed junk!  I am so glad to join this
group so I can learn more about REAL FOOD.  I was 12 years old when
they started putting preservatives in bread and had headaches for
years afterwards until I found out what that stuff was. I will be
looking forward to learning.

Hello Carol andCandace!
Carol, I thought you meant non--I mean WAPF love,love to talk about NT
eating and how we are bring led down a bad, bad path in terms of eating
and our health. It's especially pronounced this time of year since the
food industry and the media now dedicate post-Holidays as the weight
loss time and so we are baraged with thelow/non fat calorie restriction
message nonstop. I just want to shake people and say, "no, no eat your
coconut oil!" Although I have to admit that I still hardly believe
myself that eating butter--lots of it-- and cheese and all this other
yummy food is going to keep me healthy or get me healthier or cause me
to lose weight. Still I keep eating this way because it tastes good, my
blood sugar is more level, and I do feel better since starting to eat
NT about 7 months ago. I tortured my body and my self with low/non fat
and calorie restricted eating for most of my life and I just cannot go
back to it and I have nothing toshow for all that starving and almost
starving.

Anyway, I am Amy. I live in Elk Grove and I am so,so lucky to be having
the Food Coop opening up a branch down here and right next to my health
club where I teach yoga and otherwise spend a lot of time. I've been to
all the natural food stores in the area and I think the Coop is by far
the best--in selection, prices, and quality of the products. I go
downtown about once a week and buy most of our dairy there--we love
Strauss Creamery products--not raw, but very, very good. The butter is
so,so lovely. I order some of our food--like our coconut products
online and do most of the rest of my shopping at Raley's and BelAir,
they carry some organic meat and some other stuff like that.
I have to admit since starting NT, I don't shop for price as much
because I think cheap food is just that--cheap. In fact, I think the
notion that we can have whatever we want to eat for cheap and without
laboring for it is a dangerous illusion.

As for talking to people about WAPF and NT, I generally do not. First
off, because I am not thin and how will it look me saying "hey, I eat
all the fat I want?," and then, because people are so, so brainwashed
with this lowfat/nonfat myth that I really do not want to try
dismantling, instead I suggest maybe grassfed meat would be
better--like that.


I guess the other two interesting things about me are:  I teach
creative writing workshops and my two sons and I are homeschoolers. I
have noticed that on the three NT-oriented yahoo lists I am on that
many NTers are also homeschoolers too. I think that's because
homeschoolers are a questioning lot and like to go the contrary route.

The two NT Yahoo groups I belong too are:  native family tradtions and
discussing NT. Do either on of you belong?

That's it for now,
AMY

PS> IntermsOn Wednesday, January 5, 2005, at 08:43  PM, Carol Lorenger
wrote:

>
> Whoops!  That should have said NON-WAPF friends!
>
> We all have them, and it's always an interesting
> challenge to decide if you should say something or not
> when help is not being requested, but you see a
> situation where you could help.
>
> Carol
> Chapter Leader, Sacramento Metro
>
> > I just wanted to let you guys know that I am so, so,
> > so pleased to start this chapter and bring some
> > great
> > people together regarding a topic that I'm very
> > passionate about.  And love to talk about, much to
> > the
> > annoyment of my WAPF friends :-)
>
>
>
>            
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Whoops!  That should have said NON-WAPF friends!

We all have them, and it's always an interesting
challenge to decide if you should say something or not
when help is not being requested, but you see a
situation where you could help.

Carol
Chapter Leader, Sacramento Metro

> I just wanted to let you guys know that I am so, so,
> so pleased to start this chapter and bring some
> great
> people together regarding a topic that I'm very
> passionate about.  And love to talk about, much to
> the
> annoyment of my WAPF friends :-)




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I just wanted to let you guys know that I am so, so,
so pleased to start this chapter and bring some great
people together regarding a topic that I'm very
passionate about.  And love to talk about, much to the
annoyment of my WAPF friends :-)

I'm looking for good places to post the announcement
of our chapter, if you can think of any that you'd
like to share.  I put up a posting on Craigslist last
night, and will send a note the Sac Co-op list this
evening.

If you have friends or family that you'd like to
invite, please feel free to do so.

This is a good link to share (though it's long, and
may need to be cut-and-pasted)

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/WAPF-Sacramento/join

Alternately, they can also go to groups.yahoo.com and
search on "WAPF-Sacramento" and we pop right up.

Regards,

Carol
Chapter Leader, Sacramento Metro





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Hi Candace,

> I'm currently buying most of my food at the The
> Whole Foods Market and the Sacramento Food Co-op.


I actually was down at the Sacramento Food Co-op for
the first time last night, and was quite impressed.  I
signed up for a membership (though FYI for others -
it's not required, they are open to the public).

I think I had delayed going to check them out earlier
because my impressions were colored by a previous food
co-op in Raleigh, NC (where I grew up).  All the one
in Raleigh had was dried beans and shabby looking
produce.  To be fair, that was 20 years ago, so things
could have changed radically.

So it was great to see the Sac Food Co-op looking more
like a "mini Whole Foods."  I bought my raw milk, a
raw sheeps-milk cheese from Spain, some ground
grass-fed beef and some killer olives from the olive
bar. I'll definitely work a regular trip in (I work
downtown, but live in Folsom so I can stop on the way
home)


> At one time, I was a member of the
> Full Belly Farm CSA.  They deliver boxes of organic
> produce to a  neighborhood delivery site in the
> Sacramento area once a week for $15
> per week.  It might be something worth looking into.
> I think the  cost is more reasonable than the
> store, but you don't get to pick the
> items you want.  I don't know of any other farms.
> Have other members located good sources of whole
>foods?


I've heard of Full Belly Farm before.  Did you stop
your membership because you couldn't depend on the
type of veggies you'd receive?  I could see where that
would be a bit of a challenge.

Regards,

Carol
Chapter Leader, Sacramento Metro






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Hi my name is Candace, and I'm from El Dorado Hills.  I would like to
thank Carol for starting the new WAPF Sacramento Metro Chapter.  I'm
really looking forward to meeting and learning from others who are
interested in the WAPF philosophy.

I stumbled on information about the WAPF on the internet nearly a
year ago and decided to join the organization.  I only wish I had
learned about it years ago--but better late than never!

Carol mentioned Sally Fallon's book, Nourishing Traditions.  It is a
wonderful book.  I originally checked it out from the Sacramento
library system and liked it so much I had to buy my own copy.  Some
other good books by authors associated with the WAPF are Traditional
Foods Are Your Best Medicine by Ronald Schmid, Health and Nutrition
Secrets That Can Save Your Life by Russel Blaylock, and The Fourfold
Path to Healing by Thomas Cowan.  Unfortunately, the library didn't
have copies of these.

I'm currently buying most of my food at the The Whole Foods Market
and the Sacramento Food Co-op.  At one time, I was a member of the
Full Belly Farm CSA.  They deliver boxes of organic produce to a
neighborhood delivery site in the Sacramento area once a week for $15
per week.  It might be something worth looking into.  I think the
cost is more reasonable than the store, but you don't get to pick the
items you want.  I don't know of any other farms.  Have other members
located good sources of whole foods?

If you haven't already received my Welcome message, you can view it
in the "Files" section of our Yahoo!Group website.

The File section will also be where we post recipes, directions, and
other goodies that we want to reference more permanently than email.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/WAPF-Sacramento

and then click on "Links" on the left-hand navigation bar.

Regards,

Carol
Chapter Leader, Sacramento Metro