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Line vs Dot and power output question..   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #352 of 555 |
Re: [Therapeutic-Laser_Therapy] Line vs Dot and power output question..

Hi Steve,
 
Your logic is correct. Many manufacturers state the output power as per the laser diode they are using. Thus a 5mw Sanyo diode operating at it's required current drive will put out 5mw. However, if you then use collimating or focussing optics, or a line generating optic, there will be some power loss through the optics.
 
This can be in the order of 25%, thus the available ouput power in this hypothetical case is now 3.75 mw.
 
Most laser diodes emit an elliptical beam with the vertical axis having a divergency of say 30 degrees and the horizontal axis having a divergence of say 12 degrees.
 
Thue a manufacturer "spot" size may be stated at 1mm which unless the system has suitable optics to create a circular spot, this "stated" 1mm spot is more likely to be an ellipse shape with the vertical length of the beam being 1mm whilst the horizontal length is 0.4mm.
 
If a line generator lens is used then the beam could be 5mm x 1mm. Both of these will be at a given distance from the face of the diode.
 
This is where the problem comes in. As you move further away from the tissue surface, the spot size (unless truly collimated to produce a minimally divergibg beam) then becomes larger the further away from the tissue surface.
 
Line generators can also suffer this problem, so the further away from the tissue surface, the longer & wider the line.
 
You still have the original output power, but the Power Density on the tissue surface decreases dramatically the further you move the treatment tip away.
 
Given the two examples above, the "Spot" of 1mm x 0.4mm with an output power of 3.75mw (after the lens system) has a Power Density of 1.19 Watts/cm2
 
The "Line" of 5mm x 1mm (at 3.75mw) has a Power Density of 0.075 Watts/cm2. Thus the line version has to be applied 15.86 times longer to deliver the same Power Density.
 
Thus your point about the higher power Laser diode eg 20mw being used to minimise these factors is valid. More importantly, the manufacturer should state the exact output power at the treatment face ie where the laser is applied to the tissue. You also need to know the duty cycle if the laser is pulsed as again this will affect the "mean average" output power which in turn affects the treatment time for required Dosages.
 
Trust this helps,
 
Kerry
 
Kind Regards
Kerry Tume
M.Ac.F.  M.I.L.A.  ACONT
NAALT WALT LIA
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 1:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Therapeutic-Laser_Therapy] Line vs Dot and power output question..

Hi Steve!

I don't know the answer to this question.... Hoping someone with laser
manufacturing wisdom will give some insight to this question.

Health, Hope, Joy & Healing :
May you Prosper, even as your Soul Prospers  3John 2

Jennifer Ruby

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

http://www.rubysemporium.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SymphonicHealth
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Therapeutic-Laser_Therapy
http://www.lazrpulsr.com
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----- Original Message -----
From: "esl5552001" <SCL555@...>
To: <Therapeutic-Laser_Therapy@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 1:56 PM
Subject: [Therapeutic-Laser_Therapy] Line vs Dot and power output question..


| I have noticed that some lasers on the market (635nm healing lasers)
| use a dot and some lasers use a line. I have heard it said that if you
| are using a 5mw line then you are losing a significant amount of power.
| For instance the Erchonia is said to only produce .6mw output of power
| at the aperture. Wouldn't it make sense to just use 15-20mw diode (or
| whatever it takes) until you arrive at the desired 5mw output at the
| aperture for a line generated laser? Then you could cover more area in
| less time with greater effect using a true 5mw. Just trying to arrive
| at the bottom line of all this laser tech(pun intended).
|


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Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:08 am

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Message #352 of 555 |
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I have noticed that some lasers on the market (635nm healing lasers) use a dot and some lasers use a line. I have heard it said that if you are using a 5mw...
esl5552001
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Mar 13, 2006
7:56 pm

Hi Steve! I don't know the answer to this question.... Hoping someone with laser manufacturing wisdom will give some insight to this question. Health, Hope,...
Jennifer Ruby
rubysemporium
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Mar 14, 2006
2:58 pm

Hi Jennifer, Steve and everyone, I thought I would try and help with the line vs dot question with some of the equations as to how this is worked out being the...
Sean Tume
seantume
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Mar 15, 2006
12:37 am

One thing is for sure Sean. You are a genius. I don't know if I will every completely understand what you have so eloquently said but I now know there is more...
esl5552001
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Mar 15, 2006
6:56 am

Hi Steve, Your logic is correct. Many manufacturers state the output power as per the laser diode they are using. Thus a 5mw Sanyo diode operating at it's...
Kerry Tume
fotomed
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Mar 15, 2006
12:08 am

Thank you for the answer Kerry. So how much power would be needed to come within a true 5mw with a 635nm line generating (no pulse) laser if you are treating a...
esl5552001
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Mar 15, 2006
7:11 am

Hi Steve, Could I ask you to clarify what you are trying to achieve with the 5mW output in relation to large muscle groups and also just so that I am correct ...
Sean Tume
seantume
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Mar 15, 2006
8:50 am

This is what I was getting at. My chiropractor friend has the Erchonia 635nm 5mw line laser and is seeing good results with it's minimal .6mw at the aperture...
esl5552001
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Mar 15, 2006
9:16 am

Hi Steve, Thanks for the clarification. To reiterate the issue of output power.... If you have 5mW at the aperture.... You will still have 5mW at the tissue...
Sean Tume
seantume
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Mar 15, 2006
11:55 am

Sean, Is it safe to say that clinicians using lasers by waving them over a large area are really not doing much at all? Often, I'll see docs at trade shows...
Buddy Touchinsky
touchiba
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Mar 15, 2006
2:46 pm

Hi Buddy, Couldn't resist a comment here! You are totally right re some of these trade show performances. It seems there are still a huge group of "snake oil"...
Kerry Tume
fotomed
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Mar 16, 2006
12:54 am

Hi Steve, A typical therapeutic Laser for Chiropractic would be at least a single 250mw IR diode or a 4 x 250mw IR diode cluster head. These penetrate to the...
Kerry Tume
fotomed
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Mar 16, 2006
1:03 am
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