Ok Ed.

I'll have to dig deeper.

I thought (and still do) that the distinction is clear, and that
Federal scrutiny is more intense for Personal Health Info, regardless
of the presence of Personally Identifiable Info. The reference I
quoted clearly separates those consepts, and does not suggest that
Personally Identifiable info needs to be present to qualify for a
privacy vialotaion.

But this reference is only a shortened interpretation of the federal
rules. I am trying to find the original text. It is not easy, the
texts are huge. Please stand By (or help).

Sincerely,

Reda
http://idaprolf.org

Did you read the reference? (Ed and others)

Because Ed seems to have missed the distinction between
- Persoanally Identifiable Info (name, e-mail address, social
security number etc.), and
- Personal Health Info (medical conditions, treatments etc.),
I am re-listing the reference extract from a consumer health
resource, found at
http://webapps.urac.org/websiteaccreditation/portal/
consumer/Privacy.asp
(put it back in one line/link if needed)
You will notice that Personal Health info is under more federal
scrutiny as it relates to privacy than personally idendifiable info.
<<
- What is the difference between personally identifiable information
and personal health information?
Personally identifiable information is any information that might
help someone identify a specific person (for example, home address,
social security number, telephone number, etc.). Personal health
information is information about the health status or history of an
individual (for example, if they have a chronic condition, their
family medical history, etc.).
- Why are URAC's Standards more rigorous when it comes to protecting
my personal health information than they are for protecting my
personally identifiable information?
The URAC standards are consistent with federal law, which sets a
higher bar for the collection and protection of health information
than for other types of personal information.
>>

Again, Ed, I am not saying that we would necessarily get prosecuted,
but we are in violation, and consequently, our customers may be
unhappy about the fact that such info is public, wide open, and
without their express recorded consent, which is the condition to
reveal such info publically, regardless of the fact that there may or
not be personally identifiable info associated (name, address, etc.).
This info is wide open: one doesn't even need to be a member to be
able to read it!

Make no mistake: these federal laws are exactly what we are violating.


Perhaps the only reasons why we are getting away with it is because
we are not all that rich (to attack in court), or because all our
clients do not know about it, or because those that do are forgiving
or ignorant of these rules, who are meant to protect their privacy.

Sincerely,

Reda
http://idaprolf.org

You bring up interesting points.

I understand that being mostly concerned with exchanging useful
technical data, most practitioners may not see such considerations as
important. Also, it is evident that the promotion of our craft
fundamentally about doing the work on an everyday basis. However, by
not seing the rest of the world, we are missing out on some major
development potential. The web is about consumers and professionals
with questions, and in our case, with genuine health questions.

Let me make my thoughts a little clearer.

I am not saying that we can be legally prosecuted or otherwise
worried by the law because of how this forum is set up. These
consideration are used in the case of the reference I listed earlier
in order to be accepted by the web and health establishment as a web
resource that respects privacy as it relates to health and personal
info. I.e.: for the consumer to trust such a resource. If a web
resource complies, then it gets the label, if it doesn't then it
doesn't.
It is not meant to go after our web forum, which does not revendicate
or apply for such status.

However these federal rules are the best guidelines in order to be
respectful of our customers privacy, as well as any potential
visitor. But that is far from being the only positive aspect.

There is a deep reason why it is limitting to not have such
guidelines in mind. I am looking for options to bring the consumer
closer to our practitioners, and killing 2 birds with the same stone,
to find our way into the establishment through the small door: health
and alternative medical established resources (versus the big door of
established medical specialties). The small door in question has
become a very potent channel of communication, from being non
existant, to being made available by the establishment itself, and to
being highly consulted by the consumer and other health
professionals. If we do not have a space that complies, and if the
bulk of our practitioners keeps meeting on a non-compliant space,
then our community will not make it to these established health and
government resources.

It is sad because our community is overall open to talk to others,
and respond to questions, as most have allowed me to believe when I
directly submitted my requests to this forum (requests which are
hardly practical because of the non-compliance to the federal
standars, and because of spammers). It is sad because it is mostly a
web technical matter, a matter of organization. Using a privacy
compliant forum would be the same for most of the practitioners,
except those involved in the management of the forum (moderation
considerations, banning of spamers, etc.), and except to set up an
account. It is sad because changing these settings can go a long way
in terms of helping the profession to have a much better image and a
much better contact with the public, and with other health
professionals.

In other words, being open to talking to others, if we really mean
it, and in order to do it right and most efficiently, must be backed
up by such consideration. Being open to others cannot mean having to
hide our forum from the public in order to avoid spamers, or hide
from health and government established resources, by not qualifying
and applying for such recognition, and therefore by not being listed
to where it counts to be listed.

That is why other alternative professions actually try to seek such a
level of recopgnition. It promotes their professions. And as they do
that, we are accelerating in rear gear (who doesn't go forward, moves
backwards), relatively to the world's awareness and education about
alternative methods.

I hope this makes my thoughts a little clearer.

Sincerely,

Reda
http://idaprolf.org

I agree with Ed.  I dont think the fed privacy laws prevents the
discussion of case studies, otherwise all medical journals have a
problem.  As long as we are keeping unrelated personal details of our
clients to a minimum, they should be safe from prying eyes.
When the public posts a personal health question they are much more
apt to give overt personal information that can be traceble, (email,
name, state/town...) but by going through the process of signing up
to the forum and posting they inherently agree to being members and
posting on a public forum.  Its their choice... (though we could give
a blunter warning in the intro/description to the forum....

all in all, I love the forum and what it offers (minus the spam!)
Eli


--- In Structure_Integrator@y..., ETOAL4@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 4/16/2002 3:39:52 PM Alaskan Daylight Time,
> redaelandaloussi@y... writes:
>
>
> > This extract highlights that the type of info we are exchanging
here
> > on this forum is in violation of federal principles of health
privacy
> > (US), more than names and addresses:
> >
>
> Reda,
>
> I respectfully disagree with you interpretation of the privacy
issue.  The
> federal government does protect personal health information more
than other
> personal information (financial, for instance).  But the protection
is of
> individuals' health info, not anonymous examples for the sake of
discussion.
> I think the idea is to make sure a person's health history is not
used
> against them or to exploit them.  How can that happen if we are not
> identifying the person?
>
> Granted, a people may identify themselves, directly or indirectly,
by
> accessing idaprolf.org.  Perhaps a clear disclaimer on the website
could help
> people stay anonymous?
>
> I'm no lawyer, but I'm pretty sure there is no violation of privacy
going on
> here.  We are not gathering data in any way that is connected to
identifiable
> individuals.
>
> Yours,
>
> Ed Toal

You might find this interesting (on the same topic):

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/04/17/politics/17PRIV.html?todaysheadlines

Peter

Hi,

Before I start I want to salute again the creation of this forum,
which has contributed to promote the spirit of the larger family, a
warm quality, especially for those who do not enjoy a group support
locally. Thanks Jim.

Regarding this forum and the way it is not only unmoderated, but also
open for consultation by the public, there are reasons to be
concerned, besides spaming, as consumers:
Even though the forum users generally gently agreed for me to let the
consumers find the forum, while visiting idaprolf.org, I am trying
not to make it all that clear to the consumer. I hesitate because I
suspect that it would open the door to spamers, and also because it
exposes sensitive private health information to the public at large.

To put it simple: by being open, we are betraying our customers's
trust by sharing in the open health information, which is considered
by federal authorities more sensitive than actual personal info
(name , social security number, address, etc). We may think that we
are not betraying such trust because we are not telling any name, but
in fact, just exchanging health info about our clients is already a
customer's trust betrayal, in a federal sense. (By the way my forums
as they are now at idaprolf.org also is not very good with such info,
although it is more clear to visitors that the info they decide to
release is open and accessible, unlike our clients whoes health info
is shared here without necessarily their knowledge and consent)

For reference, here is an extract of a consumer health resource,
found at
http://webapps.urac.org/websiteaccreditation/portal/consumer/Privacy.a
sp
(put it back in one line/link)
This extract highlights that the type of info we are exchanging here
on this forum is in violation of federal principles of health privacy
(US), more than names and addresses:

<<
- What is the difference between personally identifiable information
and personal health information?
  Personally identifiable information is any information that might
help someone identify a specific person (for example, home address,
social security number, telephone number, etc.). Personal health
information is information about the health status or history of an
individual (for example, if they have a chronic condition, their
family medical history, etc.).

- Why are URAC's Standards more rigorous when it comes to protecting
my personal health information than they are for protecting my
personally identifiable information?
  The URAC standards are consistent with federal law, which sets a
higher bar for the collection and protection of health information
than for other types of personal information.
>>

Also, not being able to advertise fully this forum is not a good
service to the other SI practitioners who do not have access to the
word of mouth of other SI practitioners to hook up to the community.

That is why I tend to agree with Jeff LINN in the sense that the best
solution is another forum that is closed to the public, and fully
moderated. Of course this raises new questions:
- Who volunteers to moderate such a forum?
- Following what criteria do we select applicants? I.e.: do we let
anyone in with a promisse (agreement) accepted regarding personal
info, spaming, and fair conduct? or do we screen upon presentation of
credentials (I tend to favor the first case, more open to
practitioners from modest backgrounds, or less known backgrounds; I'd
also hate it to overly block access to knowledge and genuine
technical SI exchanges)
- Can we make up for the consumer betrayal (get the archives from
Yahool and close Structure_Integrator to stop the hemmoragy of
personal health info)?
- Where do we host it? Do we go for a comercial solution? Or can we
get away with volunteer contributions such as my server; if we use my
server, then we need to think of backup plans instead I become
unavailable: backing up archives and lists of participants to be able
to re-create it somewhere else if neeeded, at worse.
Overall, the commercial solution is what appears to be more easily do-
able, and already secured from hardware or human failures
(hopefully), but there might be a cost.

Actually, a simple way to do all this right is to convert this forum,
but you heard Jim, he likes it the way it is. Perhaps he doesn't
realize the wrong doing of sharing health info publically, or that by
having to hide theforum, we are not reavching the full potential this
forum could have in terms of number of participants.

Again, I do not wish to take away the credit from Jim for creating
this platform, the first one in our professions that allow us to
bridge accross various schools. But the way this forum is conceived
is not right is my firm conviction, and making it right is only a
matter of the owner changing some settings...

Sincerely,

Reda
idaprolf.org

T-
Thanks-I'll do some reading-but as far as staying away from those cautionary
areas how and what kind of work [if any] should I do with the pecs and groin
with the idea of integration?  should I totally stay away from the pecs and
pits [shoudler/groin]?  should I just tread lightly?  should I try to work
around?
thanks again for any suggestions
Aimee'
----- Original Message -----
From: <kinesis@...>
To: <Structure_Integrator@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 6:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Structure_Integrator] question


> Read up on Lymphedema, so that you watch out for the groin area, and of
course
> her armpit breast lymph tissue is going to be a cautionary area as well.
> T
>
> ratker wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> > I have a question:  Just started a 10 series with a woman yesterday.
> >
> > Medical History: breast cancer survivor of 6 years
> >                              lymphadema current and active [currently
rec
> > Physical ther]
> >                              large, but slow growing uterine fibroid
tumor
> > [non cancerous according to the client]
> >                              right kidney stone [not painful at the
moment]
> >                              has had bor lipsuction and breast reduction
> >
> > Her major complaint is pain the left hip region, including groin and
> > sciatic.
> >
> > My question is:  is there anything that I should or shouldn't do
> >                             should or shouldn't watch for
> >                             be careful as far as pressure or any thing
else.
> >
> > Other than the above, she is in relatively good shape-active and such.
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Aimee' Ratner, KMI
> >
> >
> > Community email addresses:
> >   Post message: Structure_Integrator@onelist.com
> >   Subscribe:    Structure_Integrator-subscribe@onelist.com
> >   Unsubscribe:  Structure_Integrator-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> >   List owner:   Structure_Integrator-owner@onelist.com
> >
> > Shortcut URL to this page:
> >   http://www.onelist.com/community/Structure_Integrator
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: Structure_Integrator@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    Structure_Integrator-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  Structure_Integrator-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>   List owner:   Structure_Integrator-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/Structure_Integrator
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Richard ...WHY QUIT?????
If you have outlook express or any other advanced program you can quit the
annoyance by 1.clicking on the annoying message....
  2.  DELETE MESSAGE> 3. go to DELETED ITEMS  4. MESSAGE >
5. BLOCK SENDER.
There is a sick advertizing company out in Austin TX. that plan to send a
mylar wing the size of four football fields to orbit the earth with
changing images on it for the porpuse of captivating a very large
audiance... Any ideas  how can we stop them??
Hope you don't quit because of spam...
YarOn GAl Carmel  KMI

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Wheeler" <tarpitboss@...>
To: <Structure_Integrator@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Structure_Integrator] are you using all your potenciality ?


> I agree.  What is this crap?  Stop Spamming or I will quit.
>
> RW
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Lapetal@...>
> To: <Structure_Integrator@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 8:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [Structure_Integrator] are you using all your potenciality ?
>
>
> > Stop the spam!!!!
> >
> >
> > Community email addresses:
> >   Post message: Structure_Integrator@onelist.com
> >   Subscribe:    Structure_Integrator-subscribe@onelist.com
> >   Unsubscribe:  Structure_Integrator-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> >   List owner:   Structure_Integrator-owner@onelist.com
> >
> > Shortcut URL to this page:
> >   http://www.onelist.com/community/Structure_Integrator
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: Structure_Integrator@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    Structure_Integrator-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  Structure_Integrator-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>   List owner:   Structure_Integrator-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/Structure_Integrator
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

In a message dated 4/14/02 10:25:45 PM, redaelandaloussi@... writes:

<< --> another solution would be to create another forum, with
the 'moderated' feature set, and with moderators designated to make
sure the owner does not have to be present all the time, and that the
forum doesn't depend on the owner. I agree that this is a heavy
procedure because then everybody will have to transfer there. But
moderation can be loosely practiced at first: accept anyone and kick
out unwanted spammers, versus sort out every applicant upon
application which is a demanding process and may not really address
this issue directly. When spamers become really sticky and re-create
new accounts faster than we can delete them, then a fuller moderation
can be practiced.
In order to have such a future in mind, the ownership and control
over the forum must be within the active community. Jim PASCUCCI's
present lack of involvement would not work.   >>


Given that this forum was created in 1999 as a response to a thread on Rolf
Forum about opening up that forum to other SI practitoners I think that the
creation of a new forum (with an attentive, participating moderator) is the
best bet.  A fresh start with some positive intentionality instead of being a
solution to another list's thorny issue of inclusion might be a good idea.
It will take everyone five minutes to move over to a new list.

As far as archives are concerned someone (the moderator probably) can archive
the mail as it comes in.  If in the future we need to start paying for access
then we can cross that bridge when we come to it.

Jeff Linn
Advanced Certified Rolfer
...inspired by the vision of Ida P. Rolf

Read up on Lymphedema, so that you watch out for the groin area, and of course
her armpit breast lymph tissue is going to be a cautionary area as well.
T

ratker wrote:

> Hi all,
> I have a question:  Just started a 10 series with a woman yesterday.
>
> Medical History: breast cancer survivor of 6 years
>                              lymphadema current and active [currently rec
> Physical ther]
>                              large, but slow growing uterine fibroid tumor
> [non cancerous according to the client]
>                              right kidney stone [not painful at the moment]
>                              has had bor lipsuction and breast reduction
>
> Her major complaint is pain the left hip region, including groin and
> sciatic.
>
> My question is:  is there anything that I should or shouldn't do
>                             should or shouldn't watch for
>                             be careful as far as pressure or any thing else.
>
> Other than the above, she is in relatively good shape-active and such.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Aimee' Ratner, KMI
>
>
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: Structure_Integrator@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    Structure_Integrator-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  Structure_Integrator-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>   List owner:   Structure_Integrator-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/Structure_Integrator
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

I feel that commercialism in any form has no place in the world of structural
integration.  For everything else I'm quite capable of exercising my own
editing by keeping my index finger on the delete button.

Ron McComb

Hi,


I have tried contacting Jim Pascucci about Mailing List management
several times in the past, but in vain. I did not receive an answer.
The subject was different, and I was the only one writing.

Perhaps the subject of spamming will get his attention. And perhaps
also to combine the request with many signatures may help.

However, there are obstacles, and I urge you to consider precisely
what we want to ask from Jim:
The forum is set up as 'unmoderated'. Even though Jim can delete
anyone, it would be in conflict with the 'unmoderated' setting, and
may possibly involve his attention more often in the future, which he
may not desire. Moreover, this same person can re-create a new
account as many times as he-she wants and get on Jim's nerves.


Overall, it is a good idea to think of a better solution with the
future in mind, and that is what I will develop here:
- moderation to control spammers, and to also allow advertisement of
the forum to all our professionals in the open (not have to hide the
forum from the web)
- having control over the archives, within the community, outside of
commercial interests is also a good idea, to build one integrated
technical archive.


--> a solution could be to ask Jim PASCUCCI to designate moderators
that are more involved with the mailing list, and that could respond
faster to such problems in the future.
This solution may appear to be excessive considering the very unique
nature of this isolated 'incident'.
However, as it relates to community development I would argue that it
is not fair to practitioners of SI to not have access to the
information concerning this forum, except by word of mouth. If the
forum remains un-moderated, then for example a community site like
mine (idaprolf.org) is in an ackward position: I cannot talk about
this forum too overtly to not make us too vulnerable to spammers, but
also, I cannot not talk about this forum, because there are
practitioners of SI that do not have access to word of month to learn
about it.

--> another solution would be to create another forum, with
the 'moderated' feature set, and with moderators designated to make
sure the owner does not have to be present all the time, and that the
forum doesn't depend on the owner. I agree that this is a heavy
procedure because then everybody will have to transfer there. But
moderation can be loosely practiced at first: accept anyone and kick
out unwanted spammers, versus sort out every applicant upon
application which is a demanding process and may not really address
this issue directly. When spamers become really sticky and re-create
new accounts faster than we can delete them, then a fuller moderation
can be practiced.
In order to have such a future in mind, the ownership and control
over the forum must be within the active community. Jim PASCUCCI's
present lack of involvement would not work.

This raises also the problem of our technical archives.

--> I personally thought about creating a forum on my server, but
without an expressed and pressing need, it would be useless. Not
relying on Yahoo for the future is also a good idea because if they
ever decide to charge for mailing list ownership and management, then
our archives may become unavailable without a fee. (Yahoo has
recently decided to begin charging for its free e-mail to be
available from your workstation's mail POP program such as MS-
Outlook). Even if we create another free forum when Yahoo decides to
charge us (the owner), we would loose our technical archives of the
past. As a matter of fact, even if we all moved to my server for
example, this would still be a problem (uniting the older archives
with the new forum), and may still require a fee to Yahoo (I am not
sure).
An alternative development of such a project would be to pass-on the
server to an association of SI. What I am saying here is that our
forum could be a very legitimate activity of the association that has
been in the air for a while. Other professions do it that way, and
there are reasons:
- to not depend on Yahoo, who can decide to charge anytime
- to not depend on any member of the association, who could become
unavailable anytime.


I am not saying there is an easy solution. But I think that whatever
problems we have now can only become worse with time. The way this
forum is set in a comercial entity, (even if free for now), and the
way it is not supervised are what makes it so.

The more we wait to change, the more we will loose.

Sincerely,

Reda
http://idaprolf.org

Hi all,
I have a question:  Just started a 10 series with a woman yesterday.

Medical History: breast cancer survivor of 6 years
                              lymphadema current and active [currently rec
Physical ther]
                              large, but slow growing uterine fibroid tumor
[non cancerous according to the client]
                              right kidney stone [not painful at the moment]
                              has had bor lipsuction and breast reduction

Her major complaint is pain the left hip region, including groin and
sciatic.

My question is:  is there anything that I should or shouldn't do
                             should or shouldn't watch for
                             be careful as far as pressure or any thing else.

Other than the above, she is in relatively good shape-active and such.

Thanks in advance,
Aimee' Ratner, KMI

Spammer's can be blocked by the list owner Jim Pascucci at JPascu@....
Ever wonder how Hormel feels about the use of their trademark??

Jeff Linn

I agree.  What is this crap?  Stop Spamming or I will quit.

RW
----- Original Message -----
From: <Lapetal@...>
To: <Structure_Integrator@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Structure_Integrator] are you using all your potenciality ?


> Stop the spam!!!!
>
>
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: Structure_Integrator@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    Structure_Integrator-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  Structure_Integrator-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>   List owner:   Structure_Integrator-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/Structure_Integrator
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Stop the spam!!!!

Are you using your planets or the planets are using you?
Part 1


By Bhadra Dasi.


The planets  themselves are not auspicious or inauspicious ,but they
are indicators of our past activities, we have the potentiality to be
CAUSE over the planets we have in our natal chart, or we can be
effect of them. If we elevate ourselves up toward sattva-guna (the
mode of goodness) we are cause more and more, but if instead we go
down to tamo-guna (the mode of ignorance) then in that measure we are
effect (passive) of our planets. Here we have a gradient scale
composed by levels with their own characteristics which are
manifested in a progressive manner (from A, to I, ). These qualities
are indicating some general symptoms of how is the influence of the
corresponding planet or, at which level we are using the planets that
are related to specific realms in our life.

In different periods of our life or, even in our day time, we are
acting on a specific level which can be easily ascertained by many
symptoms.

This is the range in which this gradient scale is related with the
Gunas (modes of material nature):

A is Sattva-guna (mode of goodness)

B is Sattva mixed with a little Rajo-guna

C and D are Rajasic (the mode of passion) mainly

E and F are Rajo mixed with Tamo-guna

G,H and I are in Tamo-guna (the mode of ignorance)


Gradient scale of  the Gunas related to the planets.

Gradients scale of Venus (Shukra).

This planet rules over love and affinity. We can define this word as
a consideration of distance, of how much we feel near or far from a
person. This obviously does not mean physical distance for we have
seen many times that people which is physically "near" are not so
near in reality.

A) On this level one is able to express love and to receive it freely
and
       not maliciously.
B) Here the person is tolerant, he accepts (until some limit) the
advances
      offered by others but does not readily make such advances
himself.
C) In this level the individual is negligent toward people in
general. He try
      to avoid them.
D) At this level the persons feel anger or irritation caused by the
advances of other people toward him, displays of love are received
with suspicion.
E) Here are hate or violent acts.
F) At this level the person, no longer, dares demonstrate hate as
such. This is the level of covert hostility, this person may claim to
love others or to act for others good, but, consciously, his acts are
meant to injure, manipulate or damage the others, is like an actor,
all manner of subterfuges may be resorted to.
G) Here the person is in fear and he will attempt to buy off the
imagined danger by propitiation (the act of appeasing).
H) In this level the individual is in grief, his desperate efforts to
win support by tears, supplications, pleas for pity, strange
perversions of truth intended to achieve the pity and win support of
others.
I) On this level there is no real attempt to contact one's self and
no attempt to contact others, this level is on the threshold of death.

Gradient scale of Saturn (Shani).

  This planet rules over reality.

A) Here is the person who accepts as a fact of love the reality and
confronts it as it is. He can search different viewpoints and thus he
can broaden his own reality. He has a complete flexibility and
understanding in relating and evaluating different realities.
B) This level is characterized by moderated flexibility about
realities brought to view, without eager search for new ones, or he
will try to reconcile his own reality with conflicting realities.
C) Here the person is aware of the possible validity of diverse
realities but he will not relate this to his own reality.
D) At this level the individual is indifferent to polemical
realities, and his attitude is:  "maybe" or "who cares?"
E) Here the person attempts to undermine the reality of others, is
critical, he wants the destruction of opposing realities, by denial
or violence, verbal and even physical; refuses to accept conflicting
realities without trying to fight back.
F) On this level the person has insecurity, or attempts to gain
reassurance from others.
G) Here the person has strong doubt of one's reality and thus is not
able to act within it. He does not act without others telling him
what to do. Fear of acting on himself.
H) On this level there is denying the conflicting realities and total
refuses to acknowledge the existence of any reality but one's owns,
in which one is rigidly locked.
I) At this level, the only reality is death.




Gradient scale of Mars (Kuja).

This planet rules over confrontation.

A) At this level the person have high courage level.
B) Here the person has moderate displayed of courage when the risk is
small.
C) Neither courage nor cowardice but a definite neglect of danger.
D) Instead of courage we have "bravery"
E) Here we have cowardice implied in covert hostility.
Complete cowardice. Defeat.

Thanks Bruce

Hector


on 4/8/02 11:35 AM, RBWoodMT@... at RBWoodMT@... wrote:

> Hi Hector I don't have a complete answer but will relay info a client let me
> know about. After back surgery she had been on a lot of antibiotics. Time
> past and she noticed she her belly always seemed full and extended. She
> eventually discovered she was not digesting as much as fermenting. She
> stopped her intake of yeast products and sugars for a while and added an
> intestinal flora mix to her daily intake, this with the help of a
> nutritionist. For her this seemed to be it, and no more gas. Hope this gives
> you some ideas.
> Best
> Bruce Wood KMI
>
>
> Community email addresses:
> Post message: Structure_Integrator@onelist.com
> Subscribe:    Structure_Integrator-subscribe@onelist.com
> Unsubscribe:  Structure_Integrator-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> List owner:   Structure_Integrator-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
> http://www.onelist.com/community/Structure_Integrator
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Please NO spams!This forum is not to further your business interests.
Carl
On Sun, 07 April 2002, "astroshambu" wrote:

> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> To: Structure_Integrator@yahoogroups.com
> X-Yahoo-Profile: astroshambu
> Delivered-To: canada.com%rolfing@...
> Delivered-To: mailing list Structure_Integrator@yahoogroups.com
> X-Sender: astroshambu@...
> X-Originating-Ip: 66.119.34.39
> Received: (cpmta 15439 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2002 17:16:45 -0700
> Received: from 66.218.66.73 (HELO n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com)
>  by smtp.c009.snv.cp.net (209.228.34.108) with SMTP; 7 Apr 2002 17:16:45 -0700
> Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Apr
2002 00:16:45 -0000
> Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 8 Apr 2002 00:16:44 -0000
> Received: (qmail 84711 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2002 00:16:44 -0000
> Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218)
>  by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Apr 2002 00:16:44 -0000
> Received: from unknown (HELO n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.65)
>  by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Apr 2002 00:16:43 -0000
> Received: from [66.218.67.146] by n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Apr
2002 00:16:43 -0000
> Mailing-List: list Structure_Integrator@yahoogroups.com; contact
Structure_Integrator-owner@yahoogroups.com
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-Length: 3440
> X-Received: 8 Apr 2002 00:16:45 GMT
> Precedence: bulk
> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:Structure_Integrator-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Structure_Integrator] WHY we feel rejected ?
> From: "astroshambu" <astroshambu@...>
> X-Apparently-To: Structure_Integrator@yahoogroups.com
> X-Egroups-Return:
sentto-375423-401-1018225005-rolfing=canada.com@...
> Return-Path:
<sentto-375423-401-1018225005-rolfing=canada.com@...>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82
> Reply-To: Structure_Integrator@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 00:16:41 -0000
> X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster
> Message-Id: <a8qnh9+n172@eGroups.com>
>
> Why we feel rejected?
>
>
> By Bhadra Dasi.
>
>
>     One of the most commonly withhold or concealed things by the
> parents is tentative of abortion (afflicted moon). Do you know that a
> person who is overwhelmed by present problems generally have been
> tried to be aborted? Trying to commit abortion is so grave and
> generates such great guilty feelings (Saturn) that parents do not
> talk about this so easily. But you would be amazed if you would know
> how, high percent of we, have past through a frustrated intent of
> abortion, or, at least, perceived the subtle rejection of our mother
> or father when we were still in the womb. The not yet born child is
> highly perceptive, and he notices if he is actually desired or not.
>
> What percent of us have been truly desired children and how many of
> us has been a so-called "accident"?
>
> This we can know (besides other factors) by how is placed the Moon in
> our astrological chart, for it indicates everything about the
> condition of our birth as well as all about our pre-birth situation,
> specifically how is our mother from a very wide point of view.
>
> Many parents seems always guilty toward their children and pass life
> trying to appease them by propitiation, viz. giving them money and
> many material things. Would you dare to think that "maybe" this
> propitiation is because of feeling guilty due to having tried to
> commit abortion?
>
> Do you know that actually by only slightly thinking about committing
> abortion, even if it is not accomplished, creates a deep Samskara or
> impression in the unconscious mind of the yet not born child and this
> can damage him psychologically for the rest of his life?
>
> Do you have wondered why some people feel always rejected through all
> their life span apparently "without any reason"?
>
> What percent of parents have, at least, slightly thought in the
> possibility of committing abortion or, at least, have been worry
> about the difficult situation (mainly economical worries) they will
> be in, when the child will be born?
>
> How this thought affects to their son?
>
> How can someone be so fool to claim that this things "can not" have
> any effect on the not yet born creature?
>
> Are you completely sure that attempt of abortion or subtle rejections
> from your parents were not your case, or it is only that you would
> want to believe that?
>
> If you want to know and realize the truth by your self, through the
> Samskara Process, send your birth date: day, month (wrote with
> letters), year, exact hour and place as well as the five events you
> consider the most important of your life (if possible with dates of
> those events). You will receive a Free Personalized Demonstration of
> Samskara Process.
>
> Hari bol!
>
> Bhadra dasi.
>
>
> Please write to
> astroshambu@ yahoo.com.mx
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: Structure_Integrator@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    Structure_Integrator-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  Structure_Integrator-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>   List owner:   Structure_Integrator-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/Structure_Integrator
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


__________________________________________________________
Get your FREE personalized e-mail at http://www.canada.com

Hi Hector I don't have a complete answer but will relay info a client let me
know about. After back surgery she had been on a lot of antibiotics. Time
past and she noticed she her belly always seemed full and extended. She
eventually discovered she was not digesting as much as fermenting. She
stopped her intake of yeast products and sugars for a while and added an
intestinal flora mix to her daily intake, this with the help of a
nutritionist. For her this seemed to be it, and no more gas. Hope this gives
you some ideas.
                             Best
                             Bruce Wood KMI

Why we feel rejected?


By Bhadra Dasi.


	 One of the most commonly withhold or concealed things by the
parents is tentative of abortion (afflicted moon). Do you know that a
person who is overwhelmed by present problems generally have been
tried to be aborted? Trying to commit abortion is so grave and
generates such great guilty feelings (Saturn) that parents do not
talk about this so easily. But you would be amazed if you would know
how, high percent of we, have past through a frustrated intent of
abortion, or, at least, perceived the subtle rejection of our mother
or father when we were still in the womb. The not yet born child is
highly perceptive, and he notices if he is actually desired or not.

What percent of us have been truly desired children and how many of
us has been a so-called "accident"?

This we can know (besides other factors) by how is placed the Moon in
our astrological chart, for it indicates everything about the
condition of our birth as well as all about our pre-birth situation,
specifically how is our mother from a very wide point of view.

Many parents seems always guilty toward their children and pass life
trying to appease them by propitiation, viz. giving them money and
many material things. Would you dare to think that "maybe" this
propitiation is because of feeling guilty due to having tried to
commit abortion?

Do you know that actually by only slightly thinking about committing
abortion, even if it is not accomplished, creates a deep Samskara or
impression in the unconscious mind of the yet not born child and this
can damage him psychologically for the rest of his life?

Do you have wondered why some people feel always rejected through all
their life span apparently "without any reason"?

What percent of parents have, at least, slightly thought in the
possibility of committing abortion or, at least, have been worry
about the difficult situation (mainly economical worries) they will
be in, when the child will be born?

How this thought affects to their son?

How can someone be so fool to claim that this things "can not" have
any effect on the not yet born creature?

Are you completely sure that attempt of abortion or subtle rejections
from your parents were not your case, or it is only that you would
want to believe that?

If you want to know and realize the truth by your self, through the
Samskara Process, send your birth date: day, month (wrote with
letters), year, exact hour and place as well as the five events you
consider the most important of your life (if possible with dates of
those events). You will receive a Free Personalized Demonstration of
Samskara Process.

Hari bol!

Bhadra dasi.


Please write to
astroshambu@ yahoo.com.mx

Hi

This is not strictly structural business either, but I thought perhaps there
might be a functional anatomy question in it. It may not be a functional
anatomy question at all. And it could certainly just be a common illness
that I should have known about, but don't. So:
In the case of a somewhat dysfunctional digestive system (lots of gas) why
would walking cause severe pain in the area of the heart?
Not heavy work, just walking.
The usual response is: go and have your heart checked. Based on my humble
understanding of the case, I have the distinct feeling someone could be on
the wrong track, and simply because: belching gives relief. Unfortunately,
very seldom is there enough belching activity possible in order to offer
substantial relief, but any small amount helps.
If the subject stops walking, the episode will pass in a couple of minutes,
that is, if he hasn't pushed it too hard. If he has pushed it too hard he
will end up throwing up, because the pressure from the stomach has become
too great.

Hector