info from various message boards reveal the large majority of arthritics
   are also given an fms diagnosis.  interesting, huh?
   osh

Maggie <maohearn@...> wrote:
           Osh,

I continue to doubt FMS when people have arthritis because there is
something that is inconsistent about that dx, especially if a person has
markers for inflammation. There is no inflammation involved with FMS, and
that is why for a long period of time the doctors thought that my problem
was FMS because I did not have the other markers. The reason that I did not
have the other markers (except for the ANA) is that the NSAIDs that had been
prescribed were working!!! It is the reason that many of my symptoms were
ignored for so long.

I have some good books on the subject of FMS, and there is one thing that is
consistent, the FMS patients usually find that they have normal results in
their blood tests, and their x-rays. I loaned my doctor one of my books on
this subject ;-). It helps both him and myself to understand the issues and
how what I am experiencing is different from regular FMS.

Since I have just injured my coccyx for the second time in 30 years, I am
more acutely aware of the pain that comes from bone injury. It is also an
opportunity to learn more about what is happening within my body, and what I
can do to relieve the pain in a natural way (without surgical intervention).
The first thing that I have learned is that it is not the bone that hurts
but the soft tissue surrounding the bone. This is not the same as
fibromyalgia. This is a sign that the soft tissue is injured in some way, or
that the soft tissue is trying to protect the bone that has sustained the
injury. The first time that I fractured my coccyx I had a very acute injury,
and I had pain for a lot longer than the usual 6-10 weeks that is expected
in an injury of this nature. In later years I have ended up with low back
pain that is directly attributable to that initial injury, to the point that
for the last 7 years I have not been able to sit on a wooden seat without a
cushion. The discomfort factor has skyrocketed since my new injury.

The problem that I have with a dx of FMS is that it can be the lazy doctor's
diagnosis. I am blessed because my present GP did not believe in a diagnosis
of FMS, even though he seemed to think that this was the cause of my initial
pain when I presented myself to him for a second opinion. He has worked with
me for more than 4 years in trying to get to the bottom of the problem. He
admitted that my case was difficult to diagnose, and this is definitely a
mark of a good diagnostician because he was not willing to jump to hasty and
wrong conclusions. When I first presented to him, my inflammation markers
were not elevated, but this changed two years ago. My bone scan proved that
I have arthritis.

FMS remains an unsatisfactory diagnosis if there are other symptoms in parts
of the body that are not normally pinpointed for that particular disease.
Thus, if you have pain in your feet, it is not FMS. I have not, as yet heard
of a diagnostic test for elevated levels of substance P, but once this
becomes a regular test, then a diagnosis for FMS will no longer be doubted.
As well as the elevated levels of substance P, I do know that FMS is a pain
syndrome. It does not cause swelling in the soft tissue - that is tendinitis
not FMS. Also, I doubt that it causes muscles to feel tight, but myofasical
pain could cause such tightness because it is the result of the tendons
becoming "knotty". It is as if FMS has become fashionable as a diagnosis,
and in the case of women, a diagnosis of FMS can be misleading, because we
are often misdiagnosed as having FMS whilst the underlying arthritis that is
causing the condition of pain is ignored. My own maxim on the issue is:

"If you respond well to NSAIDs e.G. By taking Orudis or Celebrex etc, then
the condition is not FMS".

A good doctor will always note that there is a response to the NSAIDs and
then either do further investigation, or monitor the condition for changes.
This is why my GP is an absolute gem.

Maggie



-------Original Message-------

From: oshkanawa
Date: 1/01/2007 12:08:25 PM
To: Spondyville@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Spondyville] Re: NEED SUPPORT FROM ALL REMICADE PATIENTS!

i hear so many different stories like yours - that different rheumy's
diagnose different illnesses and can't seem to agree. makes me paranoid for
when i go see my first one!

i googled "rheumatoid arthritis" and "fibromyalgia" not long ago. ran into
gov't studies that fibro patients have much more elevated pain and fatigue.
fms always seemed like a "crap call" to me so i was surprised that these
studies "backed up" how bad i feel - but i don't have a single 'tender point
. duh...

my point is: don't dismiss the fibro diagnosis too quickly. i know people
who still work with it - and others totally disabled with it. i'm curious if
a rheumy agrees with my doc with that diagnosis.

i don't know how you can function with a sed rate that high. i can't get off
the stinking couch when mine's at 65. i feel like if someone even touches my
skin, i'll freak. i don't know how a pain clinic can give up on someone! a
thump on the head to them....find another one.

osh

Linda Estes <lyn12255@...> wrote:
Because of the SED rate and the spurring on my spine, my first rheumy
diagnosed me with AS. I was put on methotrexate which didn't help much and
started to cause kidney problems. Then he just told me I shouldn't be in
that much pain and my job of being a preschool teacher shouldn't be effected
by it. Each rheumy since has questioned the AS because I have no fusing, so
now they just say fibro, but I have so much inflammation and muscle
involvement, I still think something else is going on. Number 2 said I was
in so much pain he didn't know how I was still able to work, but did nothing
Number 3 was good, but had to quit working and when I lost ins. coverage I
couldn't go back. I'm on rheumy number 4 that I will probably not see again.
I would go back to number 3 when I get ins. and if she accepts it. I'm
anemic from the inflammation and that doesn't help with my being exhausted
all the time. The pain clinic and PT don't want me back anymore because they
said there's
nothing they can do for me. I do the stretches and excercise in a warm
therapy pool. I walk when I can, too, but need frequent stops because of
pain.

spenser23as <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: a SED rate in the 80's is of
no concern?!! I don't know what they're
thinking, but that doesn't make sense to me.

Spenser23as

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I would if I could, but not having ins. makes me very limited to the county
health system.  I have all the tender points.  I barely function, and that's the
problem.  I hope all of you have a very happy new year. I had the pleasure of
spending New Year's Eve in the ER passing a kidney stone!!  This is one I wont'
forget.  Got home just before midnight at least.  I was hoping to get out of
there before all the traumas of partyers started coming in.  It wasn't too bad
and I feel much better now.

oshkanawa <oshkanawa@...> wrote:                                  i hear
so many different stories like yours - that different rheumy's diagnose
different illnesses and can't seem to agree.  makes me paranoid for when i go
see my first one!

    i googled "rheumatoid arthritis" and "fibromyalgia" not long ago. ran into
gov't studies that fibro patients have much more elevated pain and fatigue.  fms
always seemed like a "crap call" to me so i was surprised that these studies
"backed up" how bad i feel - but i don't have a single 'tender point'.  duh...

    my point is: don't dismiss the fibro diagnosis too quickly.  i know people
who still work with it - and others totally disabled with it.  i'm curious if a
rheumy agrees with my doc with that diagnosis.

    i don't know how you can function with a sed rate that high.  i can't get off
the stinking couch when mine's at 65.  i feel like if someone even touches my
skin, i'll freak.  i don't know how a pain clinic can give up on someone!  a
thump on the head to them....find another one.

    osh

  Linda Estes <lyn12255@...> wrote:
            Because of the SED rate and the spurring on my spine, my first rheumy
diagnosed me with AS. I was put on methotrexate which didn't help much and
started to cause kidney problems. Then he just told me I shouldn't be in that
much pain and my job of being a preschool teacher shouldn't be effected by it.
Each rheumy since has questioned the AS because I have no fusing, so now they
just say fibro, but I have so much inflammation and muscle involvement, I still
think something else is going on. Number 2 said I was in so much pain he didn't
know how I was still able to work, but did nothing. Number 3 was good, but had
to quit working and when I lost ins. coverage I couldn't go back. I'm on rheumy
number 4 that I will probably not see again. I would go back to number 3 when I
get ins. and if she accepts it. I'm anemic from the inflammation and that
doesn't help with my being exhausted all the time. The pain clinic and PT don't
want me back anymore because they said
  there's
  nothing they can do for me. I do the stretches and excercise in a warm therapy
pool. I walk when I can, too, but need frequent stops because of pain.

  spenser23as <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: a SED rate in the 80's is of no
concern?!! I don't know what they're
  thinking, but that doesn't make sense to me.

  Spenser23as

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Hi Vince. Welcome to Spondyville.  Your treatment is a little unusual.
Did your doctor mention your having an infection by any chance? The
doxycycline is an antibiotic.  Sometimes some antibiotics of the
cycline family (Minocycline) are sometimes given for AS, but there is
no evidence that antibiotics have significant long term beneficial
effects on AS, although there is a rare type of Spondylitis, called
Brucellar Spondylitis, which involves, I believe, an infection in the
spine area, that is often treated with Doxycycline.  The  Diclofenac is
an anti-inflammatory, also known as Voltaren, that is one of many meds
that can be prescribed for AS.  The DHEA is a steroid hormone sometimes
given to lupus patients and people with adrenal insufficiency.  It's
use for treatment of AS is debatable. The Zinc is a vitamin supplement
probably given to replace the zinc you may be losing from taking the
DHEA.


Spenser23as

Hi Jude. Welcome. This support group includes people who are spouses,
parents and other family members of ASers. Tell your brother he is
welcome here as well.  You might also try the forums over on the
Spondylitis Association of America. The SAA has the best, most reliable
medical information on the internet regarding Spondylitis and its
related diseases. Their website is: www.spondylitis.org  or
www.stopAS.org



Spenser23as

Osh,

I continue to doubt FMS when people have arthritis because there is
something that is inconsistent about that dx, especially if a person has
markers for inflammation. There is no inflammation involved with FMS, and
that is why for a long period of time the doctors thought that my problem
was FMS because I did not have the other markers. The reason that I did not
have the other markers (except for the ANA) is that the NSAIDs that had been
prescribed were working!!! It is the reason that many of my symptoms were
ignored for so long.

I have some good books on the subject of FMS, and there is one thing that is
consistent, the FMS patients usually find that they have normal results in
their blood tests, and their x-rays. I loaned my doctor one of my books on
this subject ;-). It helps both him and myself to understand the issues and
how what I am experiencing is different from regular FMS.

Since I have just injured my coccyx for the second time in 30 years, I am
more acutely aware of the pain that comes from bone injury. It is also an
opportunity to learn more about what is happening within my body, and what I
can do to relieve the pain in a natural way (without surgical intervention).
The first thing that I have learned is that it is not the bone that hurts
but the soft tissue surrounding the bone. This is not the same as
fibromyalgia. This is a sign that the soft tissue is injured in some way, or
that the soft tissue is trying to protect the bone that has sustained the
injury. The first time that I fractured my coccyx I had a very acute injury,
and I had pain for a lot longer than the usual 6-10 weeks that is expected
in an injury of this nature. In later years I have ended up with low back
pain that is directly attributable to that initial injury, to the point that
for the last 7 years I have not been able to sit on a wooden seat without a
cushion. The discomfort factor has skyrocketed since my new injury.

The problem that I have with a dx of FMS is that it can be the lazy doctor's
diagnosis. I am blessed because my present GP did not believe in a diagnosis
of FMS, even though he seemed to think that this was the cause of my initial
pain when I presented myself to him for a second opinion. He has worked with
me for more than 4 years in trying to get to the bottom of the problem. He
admitted that my case was difficult to diagnose, and this is definitely a
mark of a good diagnostician because he was not willing to jump to hasty and
wrong conclusions. When I first presented to him, my inflammation markers
were not elevated, but this changed two years ago. My bone scan proved that
I have arthritis.

FMS remains an unsatisfactory diagnosis if there are other symptoms in parts
of the body that are not normally pinpointed for that particular disease.
Thus, if you have pain in your feet, it is not FMS. I have not, as yet heard
of a diagnostic test for elevated levels of substance P, but once this
becomes a regular test, then a diagnosis for FMS will no longer be doubted.
As well as the elevated levels of substance P, I do know that FMS is a pain
syndrome. It does not cause swelling in the soft tissue - that is tendinitis
  not FMS. Also, I doubt that it causes muscles to feel tight, but myofasical
pain could cause such tightness because it is the result of the tendons
becoming "knotty". It is as if FMS has become fashionable as a diagnosis,
and in the case of women, a diagnosis of FMS can be misleading, because we
are often misdiagnosed as having FMS whilst the underlying arthritis that is
causing the condition of pain is ignored. My own maxim on the issue is:

"If you respond well to NSAIDs e.G. By taking Orudis or Celebrex etc, then
the condition is not FMS".

A good doctor will always note that there is a response to the NSAIDs and
then either do further investigation, or monitor the condition for changes.
This is why my GP is an absolute gem.

Maggie



-------Original Message-------

From: oshkanawa
Date: 1/01/2007 12:08:25 PM
To: Spondyville@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Spondyville] Re: NEED SUPPORT FROM ALL REMICADE PATIENTS!

i hear so many different stories like yours - that different rheumy's
diagnose different illnesses and can't seem to agree. makes me paranoid for
when i go see my first one!

i googled "rheumatoid arthritis" and "fibromyalgia" not long ago. ran into
gov't studies that fibro patients have much more elevated pain and fatigue.
fms always seemed like a "crap call" to me so i was surprised that these
studies "backed up" how bad i feel - but i don't have a single 'tender point
. duh...

my point is: don't dismiss the fibro diagnosis too quickly. i know people
who still work with it - and others totally disabled with it. i'm curious if
a rheumy agrees with my doc with that diagnosis.

i don't know how you can function with a sed rate that high. i can't get off
the stinking couch when mine's at 65. i feel like if someone even touches my
skin, i'll freak. i don't know how a pain clinic can give up on someone! a
thump on the head to them....find another one.

osh

Linda Estes <lyn12255@...> wrote:
Because of the SED rate and the spurring on my spine, my first rheumy
diagnosed me with AS. I was put on methotrexate which didn't help much and
started to cause kidney problems. Then he just told me I shouldn't be in
that much pain and my job of being a preschool teacher shouldn't be effected
by it. Each rheumy since has questioned the AS because I have no fusing, so
now they just say fibro, but I have so much inflammation and muscle
involvement, I still think something else is going on. Number 2 said I was
in so much pain he didn't know how I was still able to work, but did nothing
  Number 3 was good, but had to quit working and when I lost ins. coverage I
couldn't go back. I'm on rheumy number 4 that I will probably not see again.
I would go back to number 3 when I get ins. and if she accepts it. I'm
anemic from the inflammation and that doesn't help with my being exhausted
all the time. The pain clinic and PT don't want me back anymore because they
said there's
nothing they can do for me. I do the stretches and excercise in a warm
therapy pool. I walk when I can, too, but need frequent stops because of
pain.

spenser23as <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: a SED rate in the 80's is of
no concern?!! I don't know what they're
thinking, but that doesn't make sense to me.

Spenser23as

__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My little brother Age 36 has spondy. Can anyone tell me where I can
find a support group for family and friends that have spondy? Thank you

Hello everyone. I was just diagnosed with AS this month and am glad I
have already found Spondyville :)

I am curious to know if the meds that my Rheuetologist has me on
are "normal" for AS.

I take:
1) doxycycline (with breakfast and supper.)
2) diclofenac (with breakfast.)
3) zinc (10 am & 4pm.)
4) DHEA (with breakfast & supper.)

I was soooooooo very glad to finally be diagnosed with something
becasue my pain has been pretty severe for about three years or so now.

So long as I take the meds all seems manageable, but I am curious about
long term problems as I just turned 39.

Any thoughts from my new Spondyville friends?

Vince

i hear so many different stories like yours - that different rheumy's diagnose
different illnesses and can't seem to agree.  makes me paranoid for when i go
see my first one!

   i googled "rheumatoid arthritis" and "fibromyalgia" not long ago. ran into
gov't studies that fibro patients have much more elevated pain and fatigue.  fms
always seemed like a "crap call" to me so i was surprised that these studies
"backed up" how bad i feel - but i don't have a single 'tender point'.  duh...

   my point is: don't dismiss the fibro diagnosis too quickly.  i know people who
still work with it - and others totally disabled with it.  i'm curious if a
rheumy agrees with my doc with that diagnosis.

   i don't know how you can function with a sed rate that high.  i can't get off
the stinking couch when mine's at 65.  i feel like if someone even touches my
skin, i'll freak.  i don't know how a pain clinic can give up on someone!  a
thump on the head to them....find another one.

   osh

Linda Estes <lyn12255@...> wrote:
           Because of the SED rate and the spurring on my spine, my first rheumy
diagnosed me with AS. I was put on methotrexate which didn't help much and
started to cause kidney problems. Then he just told me I shouldn't be in that
much pain and my job of being a preschool teacher shouldn't be effected by it.
Each rheumy since has questioned the AS because I have no fusing, so now they
just say fibro, but I have so much inflammation and muscle involvement, I still
think something else is going on. Number 2 said I was in so much pain he didn't
know how I was still able to work, but did nothing. Number 3 was good, but had
to quit working and when I lost ins. coverage I couldn't go back. I'm on rheumy
number 4 that I will probably not see again. I would go back to number 3 when I
get ins. and if she accepts it. I'm anemic from the inflammation and that
doesn't help with my being exhausted all the time. The pain clinic and PT don't
want me back anymore because they said there's
nothing they can do for me. I do the stretches and excercise in a warm therapy
pool. I walk when I can, too, but need frequent stops because of pain.

spenser23as <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: a SED rate in the 80's is of no
concern?!! I don't know what they're
thinking, but that doesn't make sense to me.

Spenser23as





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Colleen, it is interesting that you mentioned feeling fatigued after Remicade
infusions. That's exactly the way I felt also. Recently I discussed this problem
with my rheumy, who suggested that a slower infusion rate (4 hours) may help
lessen or eliminate that feeling of post infusion fatigue. Yesterday was the
second time we've experimented with the slower infusion rate, and I have to say
that it is working well. After the infusion yesterday, I was able to remain
active...went to dinner and then a movie with friends, as opposed to coming home
and falling directly into bed. Although I developed some fatigue during the
infusion (after the second hour) and was tired when I went to bed, I felt
nothing of the great urge to curl up and sleep immediately following the
infusion.

Tyler

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Coleen<mailto:cdeleonrnfa@...>
   To: Spondyville@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Spondyville@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 11:25 AM
   Subject: [Spondyville] Re: NEED SUPPORT FROM ALL REMICADE PATIENTS!


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I began getting massages every week beginning last year. The effect on my
neck was very good, and the problem and pain in my hips were minimized. Trigger
point therapy and deep tissue seemed to work better for me, but is very
painful. While having AS, I have battled kidney stones, so maybe my body learned
pain
tolerance. My first visit to massage did not go very well, because the
therapist had no idea what AS was, although I questioned the manager pretty
deeply
about their knowledge. I left very angry. Then I received a call from a
different therapist there, who really had in-depth knowledge, and she has been a
lifesaver. I would recommend that everyone at least give it a try, it may not be
for everyone. There was a good article in spondilitis plus a few months back on
massage.

Have a Happy and Healthy,
Maurice


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have a massage/vibrating cushion. I got it for Christmas. A massage of
this nature is very beneficial. There are massage chairs that are available
on the market and I usually like to have a seat and get a free massage. I
have enjoyed a few of this kind of massage during the past year. Yes, I do
get good benefits from having this form of massage.

I told my doctor that I have a massage cushion and he said "good". Also, my
physiotherapist has been advising me about taking care of the pain from my
coccyx injury. One of the pieces of advice was to massage the area.

When you are in pain, it is not necessarily the bones that are aching, but
it is the ligaments and the muscles. They are trying to protect our bones
because of the changes that are taking place. This is why our muscles go
into spasm. The pain itself is caused by muscle spasm. One reason that I am
better able to cope with my coccyx injury this time around is that I have a
better understanding about the physiology of my body. I now understand that
it is the muscles in the region that are causing the pain, not necessarily
the coccyx itself. This is why I have been doing the buttocks squeezes, even
when it hurts, so that I keep my low back out of spasm. What I am finding
though, is that I am more sensitive to changes in the weather, and I am more
sensitive to the kind of seating that is available to me at any given time.
I have a hard time sitting on any wooden seats (not new, just worse), and
the bucket style plastic seats are a total abomination. It takes only
minutes to be in pain when I am sitting on a certain style of plastic seat.
The reason for this situation happens to be the poor ergonomics of the
chairs in question. The bucket style is worse for a back that is struggling
to protect the sacro-iliac joint. This is where the massage cushion is so
very handy. It relieves the pain of sitting in one of those abominations
that they dare to call a chair.

Maggie

-------Original Message-------

From: Kelly
Date: 31/12/2006 10:20:14 AM
To: Spondyville@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Spondyville] Massages

I have read that massages really help with pain control for AS. Has
anyone had massages, and what was the outcome? What kind of massages
were they, in what areas?
Happy New Year (one with less problems and less pain to all!!)
Kelly





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Because of the SED rate and the spurring on my spine, my first rheumy diagnosed
me with AS.  I was put on methotrexate which didn't help much and started to
cause kidney problems. Then he just told me I shouldn't be in that much pain and
my job of being a preschool teacher shouldn't be effected by it.  Each rheumy
since has questioned the AS because I  have no fusing, so now they just say
fibro, but I have so much inflammation and muscle involvement, I still think
something else is going on. Number 2 said I was in so much pain he didn't know
how I was still able to work, but did nothing.  Number 3 was good, but had to
quit working and when I lost ins. coverage I couldn't go back.  I'm on rheumy
number 4 that I will probably not see again.  I would go back to number 3 when I
get ins. and if she accepts it.  I'm anemic from the inflammation and that
doesn't help with my being exhausted all the time.  The pain clinic and PT don't
want me back anymore because they said there's
  nothing they can do for me. I do the stretches and excercise in a warm therapy
pool.  I walk when I can, too, but need frequent stops because of pain.

spenser23as <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:                                  a
SED rate in the 80's is of no concern?!! I don't know what they're
  thinking, but that doesn't make sense to me.

  Spenser23as





  __________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To escort the old year out, and welcome the new year in, a crowd will
once again gather in Ankylosinger Square on the Northern edge of
Fuselot Park to watch the Golden Anti-inflammatory pill on top of the
Marie Strumpell building drop down the enormous neon-lit throat on
the side of the building, thus signalling the start of a another
brand new year.  Prism binoculars will be provided, as always, by the
Marie Strumpell foundation to those unable to look up high enough to
enjoy the festivities. Town handyman, "Pops" DeMauppassant has been
practicing lowering the giant pill with special-grip gloves on his
hands this year, which everyone hopes will avoid another embarassing
incident similar to the one last year, when the rope "Pops" was
holding slipped through his hands, sending the giant pill crashing
down to the roof of the Marie Strumpell building, where it hit one of
the gargoyles, broke free of its ropes and pulleys, fell 40 stories
into a pile of discarded Christmas trees, and then continued to
bounce down Inflammation Avenue all the way to Crohns Corners, where
the New Year was ushered in just as the giant pill came to rest flush
up against a construction site's overturned port-o-potty.

New Year's Day in Spondyville will begin with the traditional First
Stretch Festivities in the meadows of Fuselot Park from 2:00AM to
5:00AM.  (Bring a blanket, as the dew is dense this time of year.).
Free Coffee will be provided by the local Stirbucks.  Help in getting
up will be provided by student interns from nearby Healthytown
University teaching hospital. Their visas and transportation costs
will be reimbursed by the Spondyville Chamber of Commerce.

In addition, a small crowd will gather in the Spondy Cafe to laugh
and offer commentary on the goings on, starting at 10PM Eastern time
on New Year's Eve. The proprietors of the Spondy Cafe are leaving the
door open all night and the cyber-coffee urns full, so if you're
online, come check in and see if anyone's in the chat room. If no-
one's there when you check in, leave a note expressing your wishes
for the new year.  If the message is not still there when you return,
tradition says it will be granted.

To get to the Spondy Cafe: go to the Spondyville.com main page (Main
Street) and click on the icon for "Spondy Cafe" ... when prompted,
enter your screen name, and then click on the button and you will be
taken to the chat room.

To get to the Spondyville main page, use this link:
http://spondyville.com/Page14.html

Or you can use this link to go directly to the chat room sign-in:
http://spondyville.com/page47spondycafe.html


Happy New Year to all the residents of Spondyville!

May 2007 be a healthier, happier and pain-free year for everyone!


Spenser23as

a SED rate in the 80's is of no concern?!! I don't know what they're
thinking, but that doesn't make sense to me.


Spenser23as

I see you mentoned your elevated SED rate.  My first rheumy and former primary
dr. were concerned about it.  It is always on the high 80's, but since I had to
change doctors, my new ones don't think an elevated number is a big deal.  They
tell me that it really doesn't tell much.  I know it shows inflammation, but
they don't seem concerned.  How do anyone else's doctors feel about it?

spenser23as <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:                                 
Hi Phil.  I take Remicade and have seen my SED rate go from a fairly
  high 65 all the way down to 1. That's about as close to having no
  inflammation as possible.  I went for years with a consistently high
  SED rate and nothing I did or took seemed to lower it more than a few
  points until I started the Remicade. For me, the effects were almost
  immediate, even though they told me that I wouldn't feel anything
  until the 3rd or 4th session.  As I walked out of the doctor's
  office, I told the nurse who had administered the infusion that I was
  feeling energized, that my long-term AS-induced fatigue had lifted.

  A couple months later, my blood tests showed my SED was down to 4.
  The only side effect I have had was not caused by the Remicade, but
  is related, in that, when I had an accident and received some gashes
  on my legs in a spot that I couldn't easily see, the wounds became
  infected. At the time, I did not realize how quickly something like
  that can happen when you are on one of these types of drugs.  Now I
  know better than to let something like that go unattended.

  I do wish this drug had been around twenty years ago, when it could
  have prevented the damage. For me, it came about fifteen years too
  late.

  If you want to talk or chat more with someone about this, feel free
  to contact me by private email at: Spenser23@...

  Good luck,

  Spenser23as





  __________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, massages can be very beneficial, as long as the massages don't go
too deep or work the muscles too hard, as that can sometimes trigger a
flareup. Most good licensed massage therapists know about AS and how to
work on a Spondy. If you call to schedule a massage, tell them you have
AS and ask what their approach would be.  Someone trying to work deep
and hard to "loosen you up", while well-intended, can end up making
things worse.

Spenser23as

I have read that massages really help with pain control for AS. Has
anyone had massages, and what was the outcome? What kind of massages
were they, in what areas?
Happy New Year (one with less problems and less pain to all!!)
Kelly

Thanks to everyone, I am to the point where I would try anything. I
have had AS for a long time. I have fused sacroiliac joints along with
fusion of my lumbar spine and a fixed position of the neck..I can still
see straight ahead thnak god, but I do not wantto get worse.. I have
limited chest expansion also....I hope this works. and thanks for the
info. I will try to bring something with me to my visits to read..
thanks alot everyone! I think I am ready!

--- In Spondyville@yahoogroups.com, "sznntexas" <sznntexas@...> wrote:
>
> my ankles, feet and toes will feel puffy and swollen. Tender to
move
> feeling of stiffness and the ankle joint and toe joints however
they do
> not look swollen at all. I have AS. Putting them up on pillows for
> hours seems my only answer. Anyone else have anything like this
> plaquing them
>

Yes, I have that almost constently now.  The only way I can describe
the feeling is like I have a bandaid from the base of the toe to just
under the last joint as you head to the tip of the toe when I bend my
toes.  However, my ankles and no other part of my foot aches now (see
below).  To me, foot pain is second to head pain.  Hard to ignore and
makes other parts worse because it affects the way you walk.

I have found a product that took the ache out of my feet (felt like I
walked on cement floors all day, even when I first got out of bed).
It is a powder that gives the body some of the natural sugars (the
good kind) that we no longer get from our foods due to all the
processing we do to them.  If you are interested in it, please e-mail
me privately as we have a rule here about promoting specific
products.  I'll send you the link and you can decide for yourself.
It's not a cure but, at least for me it eliminated some of the pain
in my feet.  Like all drugs or supplements, the effects differ from
person to person.  Because it is a natural supplement, it won't work
over night.

Hi Phil !!

   My daughter started with Remicade.....it stopped working for her after about 6
months, the same with Enbrel,  she is now on Humira  and it works great for
her.....she also takes methotrexate......it seems that different meds and
combinations work differently for each individual.....  I hope the remicade
works out for you and brings some relief.
     Best of Luck !!!

   and to all  ......HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!!
Coleen <cdeleonrnfa@...> wrote:
           Hi Phil,
My diagnosis of AS came late although for years I knew something had
to be wrong because my back hurt so bad but being an operating room
nurse with all the lifting involved my doctor blew it off to that
reason. So I'm 51 but just 3 years into the A.S. Diagnosis. I
started out with enbrel which seemed to help with the pain and
exhaustion but my rheumy thought remicade would help me even better.
It took me at least 3 months to get the guts to try it (I was
scared!). I've been on the remicade since April 2006 I'm 5'6" 150
pounds so was started on 400mg every 6 weeks. I've had no problems
with any type of reactions but like you feel, I am nervous every time
I go in for my infusions. I take alot of work things to do (I'm now
working with some orthopedic surgeons to get a new surgery center up
and running), so I'm on my lap top, reading or taking notes. There
are alot of people where I go getting blood transfusion for luekemia,
many who are living past their "death dates", they are funny and fun
to talk to and such inspiration. It certainly puts my woes in
perspective! DISTRACTION is the key point!! Also, I bring snacks, I
just try to make it feel like it's just another normal day in my life.
My total time there is a little over 3 hours. Remicade definitely
works better for me than enbrel did. I would give enbrel 70% and
remicade 88%. The only thing I noticed is about one hour after the
infusion I feel total exhausted and I HAVE TO take about an hour nap
(my rheumy says no one else has ever said that to him??) But, after
the nap, it's off to life again. I work a minimum of 50 hours a week
plus have time to play. My remicade dose was increased to 500mg every
6 weeks because by the 5th week on 400mg I was exhausted again and
told my rheumy if I could find a drug dealer sellin' remicade I'd buy
it and infuse it myself, LOL but true! (I could make a song out of
that one!) I'm much better now on the higher dose. I still have pain
but not like before enbrel and remicade... I just work around it and
basically focus on not letting it get the better of me! I'm one who
can live with pain to some degree but it was the exhaustion I couldn't
stand! I felt like I was sleeping my life away before remicade! Like
you have experienced, my brother died of a embolism to the heart a
little over a year ago (kinda like your sister) fast and sudden.
Instead of worrying about what might happen to me even though what
happened to him is unrelated, I always think about how strong he'd
want me to be and that he is watching over me and urging me to live
life to the fullest. We all know changing drugs and all the side
effects are scary... but at some point you just know it's time to do
it and you do. My best advice would be to just stay focused, be
positive and move at whatever pace you are comfortable with! I wish
you the best! Let me know how it goes once you've "been there and
done that". Have a Happy New Year! Coleen






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wow, Thats not fun at all! I have JPsA but my longest flare so far has been 9
months, but I was under a lot of stress from severe bullying. I can relate to
your neuro symptoms though. For the past couple of years I have presented w/
spasticity (w/ hyperreflexia and clonus), tingling, sensation loss in some
places and weakness, all of which suggests a compression of my spine at c5-c6,
and when they did the MRI, they see a bulging disc touching my spine, but not my
spine reacting to it. I hope you solve your mystery soon. Good luck!

andyjp_ln <andyjp_ln@...> wrote:          Hi,
I just turned 33...been diagnosed w/AS for 2 years....been on Remicade
for 2 years. I've been experiencing new symptoms that seem to be
neurologically related, and I think it might be due to a really bad
flare. It has lasted 5 months now. Anybody have a bad flare that
lasted that long?

My symptoms are bad headache on top of head that doesn't respond to
meds, Tingly/burning feelings in back and feet, fatigue, tremor,
increase in eye floaters, muscle spasms.

Docs ruled out other neurological diseases with clean MRI.





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Phil,
My diagnosis of AS came late although for years I knew something had
to be wrong because my back hurt so bad but being an operating room
nurse with all the lifting involved my doctor blew it off to that
reason.  So I'm 51 but just 3 years into the A.S. Diagnosis.  I
started out with enbrel which seemed to help with the pain and
exhaustion but my rheumy thought remicade would help me even better.
It took me at least 3 months to get the guts to try it (I was
scared!).  I've been on the remicade since April 2006 I'm 5'6" 150
pounds so was started on 400mg every 6 weeks.  I've had no problems
with any type of reactions but like you feel, I am nervous every time
I go in for my infusions.  I take alot of work things to do (I'm now
working with some orthopedic surgeons to get a new surgery center up
and running), so I'm on my lap top, reading or taking notes.  There
are alot of people where I go getting blood transfusion for luekemia,
many who are living past their "death dates", they are funny and fun
to talk to and such inspiration.  It certainly puts my woes in
perspective!  DISTRACTION is the key point!! Also, I bring snacks, I
just try to make it feel like it's just another normal day in my life.
My total time there is a little over 3 hours.  Remicade definitely
works better for me than enbrel did.  I would give enbrel 70% and
remicade 88%.  The only thing I noticed is about one hour after the
infusion I feel total exhausted and I HAVE TO take about an hour nap
(my rheumy says no one else has ever said that to him??)  But, after
the nap, it's off to life again.  I work a minimum of 50 hours a week
plus have time to play.  My remicade dose was increased to 500mg every
6 weeks because by the 5th week on 400mg I was exhausted again and
told my rheumy if I could find a drug dealer sellin' remicade I'd buy
it and infuse it myself, LOL but true!  (I could make a song out of
that one!)  I'm much better now on the higher dose.  I still have pain
but not like before enbrel and remicade... I just work around it and
basically focus on not letting it get the better of me!  I'm one who
can live with pain to some degree but it was the exhaustion I couldn't
stand!  I felt like I was sleeping my life away before remicade!  Like
you have experienced, my brother died of a embolism to the heart a
little over a year ago (kinda like your sister) fast and sudden.
Instead of worrying about what might happen to me even though what
happened to him is unrelated, I always think about how strong he'd
want me to be and that he is watching over me and urging me to live
life to the fullest.  We all know changing drugs and all the side
effects are scary... but at some point you just know it's time to do
it and you do.  My best advice would be to just stay focused, be
positive and move at whatever pace you are comfortable with!  I wish
you the best!  Let me know how it goes once you've "been there and
done that".  Have a Happy New Year!  Coleen

Hi Phil
I am a 33 year old female who has had AS for 6 years.
I was on Remicaide for a few years and it may be feel
great. My SED rate dropped from the 50's to 6. I used
to joke with my doctor that I was hooked on Remicaide
because I felt like I was not sick  BUT I had to go
off the Remicaide because I was getting to many
infections that my body had a hard time fighting. The
Remicaide after time diminished part of my immune
system. My AS has never been as good since I stopped
the Remiciade. I know a few people on Remicaide that
have not had a increase in infection so hopefully you
will be one of them. It is worth trying because you
will feel great. Good Luck
Jodi
--- mulkins98 <mulkins98@...> wrote:

>   I need your help and support. I am a 29 year old
> male and have had AS
> for at least 5 years. I have been diagnosed with AS
> since July 2005. I
> also have anxiety problems. I am getting Remicade on
> Wednesday. I am
> really starting to get scared. Doctor has me on
> Methrotrexate and I
> haven't had any problems with that. My blood work is
> ok, but I have
> mild Anemia. I am just scared of the side effects.
> HAS ANYONE HAD ANY
> SERIOUS SIDE EFFECTS TO REMICADE?
>
>   My sister died at age 30, from pulmonary Embolism.
> Nothing to do with
> my condition but I think this is why I have so much
> anxiety. Is there
> someone who can ease my mind. My doctor says I need
> Remicade to stop my
> spine from fusing or getting worse. I would love to
> feel NO
> INFLAMMATION! Has Remicade absolutely STOPPED
> imflammation for anyone?
> It would be worth it if it did.
>                                          Phil
>
>


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Hi Phil~

This will be short, as I am about to leave for my remicade infusion, but I
wanted to perhaps eases your fears a bit. I've been on Remicade about two years
now. It took some trial and error before we found an infusion rate that best
suits me (mine is infused over 4 hours). I have not suffered any serious side
effects. I do not take methotrexate, as I had a very bad reaction from that.
Over the years I have taken all the biologics; Enbrel was the best for me;
Remicade is a far second, and Humira was not beneficial at all.

The best advice I can give you is to be completely ready (without a lot of fear)
when you go in for your first infusion. Take care to develop a good relationship
with the nurse or doctor that will be performing the procedure. Having good
people to work with does a lot to make you feel more comfortable. Take something
with you to keep your mind occupied. Because my always take so long, I collect
things to do for each treatment. Today I plan to take along my digital camera
and get to know it a lot better. Sometimes I take a book....always some good
music, and perhaps cards or board games I can play alone or with someone else
there. I always go on a weekend, as I work during the week, so there is nearly
always someone else at the infusion center who likes to have something to do as
well.

The fear of long term complications is far more frightful than Remicade. I just
keep that in my head, and all is well. Of course I always watch the infusion
rate, and rag on the nurses if they pop the rate up too high (I can do that,
though since I'm also a nurse...they don't get away with anything around me.)

Good luck, Phil. Positive thoughts will help you decide the right thing to do.

Tyler
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: mulkins98<mailto:mulkins98@...>
   To: Spondyville@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Spondyville@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 1:02 AM
   Subject: [Spondyville] NEED SUPPORT FROM ALL REMICADE PATIENTS!


   I need your help and support. I am a 29 year old male and have had AS
   for at least 5 years. I have been diagnosed with AS since July 2005. I
   also have anxiety problems. I am getting Remicade on Wednesday. I am
   really starting to get scared. Doctor has me on Methrotrexate and I
   haven't had any problems with that. My blood work is ok, but I have
   mild Anemia. I am just scared of the side effects. HAS ANYONE HAD ANY
   SERIOUS SIDE EFFECTS TO REMICADE?

   My sister died at age 30, from pulmonary Embolism. Nothing to do with
   my condition but I think this is why I have so much anxiety. Is there
   someone who can ease my mind. My doctor says I need Remicade to stop my
   spine from fusing or getting worse. I would love to feel NO
   INFLAMMATION! Has Remicade absolutely STOPPED imflammation for anyone?
   It would be worth it if it did.
   Phil





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Phil.  I take Remicade and have seen my SED rate go from a fairly
high 65 all the way down to 1. That's about as close to having no
inflammation as possible.  I went for years with a consistently high
SED rate and nothing I did or took seemed to lower it more than a few
points until I started the Remicade. For me, the effects were almost
immediate, even though they told me that I wouldn't feel anything
until the 3rd or 4th session.  As I walked out of the doctor's
office, I told the nurse who had administered the infusion that I was
feeling energized, that my long-term AS-induced fatigue had lifted.

A couple months later, my blood tests showed my SED was down to 4.
The only side effect I have had was not caused by the Remicade, but
is related, in that, when I had an accident and received some gashes
on my legs in a spot that I couldn't easily see, the wounds became
infected. At the time, I did not realize how quickly something like
that can happen when you are on one of these types of drugs.  Now I
know better than to let something like that go unattended.

I do wish this drug had been around twenty years ago, when it could
have prevented the damage. For me, it came about fifteen years too
late.

If you want to talk or chat more with someone about this, feel free
to contact me by private email at: Spenser23@...

Good luck,

Spenser23as

Welcome to our world- I see that you are up at 4 am or either the clock
is weird like it sometimes is.  I don't take remicade but there are
some who will respond.  I do take enbrel and every time I see the AD on
TV I listen to all the side effects and become concerned all over
again.  These drugs did not exist when I first found out about AS so
I'm not sure how I would have dealt with the matter then but I do know
what a slowing down of inflammation does-by the way inflammation or
high levels if it- does cause anemia.  For the first time in my life I
am not really anemic and I don't have those nasty flares that jump up
to bite you literally in the butt when you least expect it.  I would
trust my Dr. at t his point and at least try the treatment plan however
I do and many others understand your reservations especially with your
family history- Good luck and stay in touch.

I need your help and support. I am a 29 year old male and have had AS
for at least 5 years. I have been diagnosed with AS since July 2005. I
also have anxiety problems. I am getting Remicade on Wednesday. I am
really starting to get scared. Doctor has me on Methrotrexate and I
haven't had any problems with that. My blood work is ok, but I have
mild Anemia. I am just scared of the side effects. HAS ANYONE HAD ANY
SERIOUS SIDE EFFECTS TO REMICADE?

   My sister died at age 30, from pulmonary Embolism. Nothing to do with
my condition but I think this is why I have so much anxiety. Is there
someone who can ease my mind. My doctor says I need Remicade to stop my
spine from fusing or getting worse. I would love to feel NO
INFLAMMATION! Has Remicade absolutely STOPPED imflammation for anyone?
It would be worth it if it did.
                                          Phil

Linda,

I will be checking again. However, my insurance is different than in the USA


Maggie

-------Original Message-------

From: Linda Estes
Date: 12/30/06 15:14:17
To: Spondyville@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Spondyville] bunions & muscle tightness

Maggie, check with your medical insurance to see if they cover special shoes
for your condition. Never hurts to ask.

oshkanawa <oshkanawa@...> wrote: my heart goes out to you, maggie.
you're not a quitter....
osh

Maggie <maohearn@...> wrote:
I do not have any bunions but the corns and calluses really do hurt a lot.
Now that I have managed to aggravate the situation, I am in constant pain. I
wear wide shoes but they are still not wide enough. I cannot afford to
purchase the Brooks shoes that were suggested by the podiatrist, and my
husband refuses to pay over $200 for the shoes that I need to help my feet.
I am wearing my Homy Ped shoes today but I am not getting any form of relief
It must be the arthritis that is active in my ankles. I am about to put on
my ankle brace and see if that makes a difference.

Maggie

-------Original Message-------

From: Linda Estes
Date: 30/12/2006 9:28:13 AM
To: Spondyville@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Spondyville] bunions & muscle tightness

My podiatrist said that bunions are hereditary. I know at least one of us in
the last 4 generations has them. They are made worse by ill fitting shoes.
Only got a corn once, but had to have surgery on the left one when it kept
going under the next toe causing it to rub on the shoe. I would take about
five steps and be bleeding. I wasn't allowed to wear open toed shoes to work
But that was several years ago and it's back. Not bad enough for surgery
yet.

oshkanawa <oshkanawa@...> wrote: gee...nice of you to ask me how i'm
doing (ie: have i cut my foot off yet to keep it from hurting?? )

went to the doc yesterday. she referred me to a podiatrist. this bunionette
swelled up ~ then the skin split which created a lesion~ that is now an
ulcer. :( warm salt water & peroxide calmed it down a few times...but then
it came back with a vengeance. the only fun thing about it....was grocery
shopping in my slippers this morning! har har! had to wear both slippers cuz
wearing one shoe hurt my entire body. little kids liked my slippers. (kids
rule!)

was given an anti-biotic for bacterial infection. doc knows the raynaud's is
bad for me & could've caused my grief but feels it may be a form of
vasculitis - so "be sure and show the rheumy your foot". i asked how it
could get this bad when i've only worn extra wide tennis shoes for the last
year ....she said rheumy & podiatrist will have to tell me.

the tightness in my muscles...is fibromyalgia...which i've known i've had
for two years ...but didn't know it'd do this too! (sigh) i hope my butt
looks as tight as it feels! arms and legs too!!

i never have any swelling so it's not "classic RA" if it's RA, ya know? i
can't imagine having arthritis in my feet! (sigh) spines are weight-bearing
enough - but your feet too?? ugh! humidity doesn't phase me unless it's cold
too - then i'm down for the count. corns sound like a barrel fun!! i bought
some corn pads today for the bunion. i taped cotton balls in between my toes
to straighten my pinkie toe up...and it relieved a lot of the ankle pain!
(this bunion is on my "pinkie toe side" - not the big toe side)

i bought some "man socks" today and they don't make the stinging worse.
whew! now my feet are warm. :)

gosh....we sound old!

osh

Maggie <maohearn@...> wrote:
Osh,

It will be interesting to see if you do have RA. My blood test results have
placed me in a borderline category. My doctor is not stating for certain
that I have RA but he is treating it as though I have RA. I have arthritis
in my feet and this was evident from my bone scan as well as the x-rays when
they were finally taken. We are now in summer and Sydney has been humid. I
have been suffering but not nearly as much as in the past, so far.

It is useful to know someone with RA because one can make comparisons. She
has had carpal tunnel syndrome, which is a result of the RA and she has had
an operation on her hands. Her toes are twisted and a lot worse than my toes
I have a slight problem with the toes on my right foot. When my feet are
swollen I cannot fit into most of my shoes and that makes it hard to wear
the orthotics. When the arthritis is active the pain in my feet intensifies.

Bunions is not always associated with RA. They can also come from having
ill-fitting shoes. Only recently I heard the TV presenter Kerri-Anne
Kennerley tell a podiatrist that most women prefer the discomfort of wearing
shoes that are too tight, just so that they look good. I was shocked over
what she said because she was literally ignoring the advice of the
podiatrist and setting herself up to be plagued by bunions, corns and other
foot problems in the future. I have a continuing problem with corns and
calluses. I am not in the habit of wearing tight shoes, and prefer not to
wear women's fashion shoes. If my feet swell due to the heat, then that is
sufficient to set off the corns, even when I am wearing shoes with a wide
toe box.

What about socks? Are you able to wear socks on your feet in winter?

Maggie in Sydney

-------Original Message-------

From: oshkanawa
Date: 23/12/2006 7:55:17 AM
To: Spondyville@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Spondyville] bunions & muscle tightness

thanks so much. i'm suspected of having RA and it's being tested in january.
thought it was odd that these "bunions" only appear in winter when it's cold
makes for hell with the raynaud's cuz i can't put anything on this foot to
keep it warm cuz of stinging pain....so i'm fighting the pain from it being
too cold. hmm... don't know anyone who has RA so i'm grateful for what you
said.
thanks
osh

Maggie <maohearn@...> wrote:
I endorse Linda's comments. I do not have bunions, but I have feet issues. I
think that you should go to a podiatrist. Also, you will need to consider
whether your shoes are wide enough. I think that you should see your doctor
as well, just in case there is another reason for the bunions.

I did not know that bunions were a feature of AS. I thought that they were a
feature of RA in particular. I have a friend who has bunions and they do not
seem to get red, swollen and stinging.

I agree with Linda's comments about the cold and the humidity. I have been
experiencing reactions to these conditions on a first hand basis and I am
going through a flare due to humidity at the present time. I had a bad time
over winter because of the cold, and the humidity.

Maggie

-------Original Message-------

From: Linda Estes
Date: 23/12/2006 2:51:09 AM
To: Spondyville@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Spondyville] bunions & muscle tightness

I have bunions and had surgery several years ago, but they do come back. I
have not experienced the pain you're having. I would get to a podiatrist
ASAP if I were you. As for the muscle pain, stiffness and spasms, I take
muscle relaxers daily. They are worse in cold and humid weather. Stretching,
gently helps, so does water therapy. Hope you get some relief soon.

Osh <oshkanawa@...> wrote: i'm hoping someone else has experienced the
following and can
elaborate on it!

last winter was diagnosed with tailor's bunions. i changed my shoes,
they went away.

two weeks ago, one flared up again. however, the pain is a severe
sting...worse than a wasp sting, intermittantly worse throughout the
day and relieved "somewhat" if i elevate my foot. the bunion is red,
purple and swollen...can't even let socks touch it without going
through the roof! i've worn nothing but slippers for two weeks so i
don't understand the ongoing pain if it's truly just a bunion.

yesterday, when i woke, my entire foot hurt if i put weight on it.
(not bad, just hurt) throughout the day, the ache moved up my leg if
i put weight on it.

can't get any results googling "bunion & stinging"! do bunions get
infected? could this be gout? could this be a rheumatoid nodule?

second, this winter my morning issues feel more like my muscles are
contracted and tight...as well as the usual stiffness. any comments
on that?

thanks!
osh

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Hiya Everyone,

My daughter who has just turned 7 has the start of bunions. When we been to the
physio, doctor and specialist and each of them told us that Bunions are
hereditary (sp?). As you can imagine we were horrified that our daughter has
these starting so young. Like most parents we buy shoes that are rather loose on
our kids to allow for growth and so feet are never cramped in.

As for throat things, I get what I've always thought it cramp in my neck every
so often. After reading everyone's emails I'm not so sure. If this something I
should mention to my rheumatologist?

Thanks

Michelle

**********************************************************************
This electronic message together with any attachments is confidential. If
you receive it in error: (i) you must not use, disclose, copy or retain
it; (ii) please contact the sender immediately by reply email and then
delete the emails. Views expressed in this email may not be those of the
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Hiya Everyone,

	 My daughter who has just turned 7 has the start of bunions. When we been to the
physio, doctor and specialist and each of them told us that Bunions are
hereditary (sp?). As you can imagine we were horrified that our daughter has
these starting so young. Like most parents we buy shoes that are rather loose on
our kids to allow for growth and so feet are never cramped in.

	 As for throat things, I get what I've always thought it cramp in my neck every
so often. After reading everyone's emails I'm not so sure. If this something I
should mention to my rheumatologist?

	 Thanks

	 Michelle


**********************************************************************
This electronic message together with any attachments is confidential. If
you receive it in error: (i) you must not use, disclose, copy or retain
it; (ii) please contact the sender immediately by reply email and then
delete the emails. Views expressed in this email may not be those of the
Airways Corporation of New Zealand Limited
**********************************************************************