I found a link online to a chapter in a book I read a few years ago and thought
it was great. My lifestyle was pretty solitary at the time and I didn't have
much application for it. I had forgotten all about it until I was referred to it
again yesterday. I found it very helpful and I've already seen some strong signs
that it's likely to be effective for me. There's one example in particular about
anxiety that I found most helpful. If nothing else, if you're interested in
psychology, it's probably the best explanation and practical advice I've ever
heard for working with your unconscious shadow material. It also happens to be
written by my favorite author. This time around I found it very helpful as

Here's the link:
http://iionline.org//kw/integratingtheshadow.pdf

More on that here:
http://www.kenwilber.com/editor/nbshadow.pdf

And if you're into psychology, here's another good one:
http://www.kenwilber.com/editor/TAGT.pdf

Yeah, I've been doing CBT for SA for about 15 years now.  I guess
you'd say I'm a slow learner :-).  Actually,  I spend most my time
avoiding exposures; if I did them every week I'd be further ahead.
I'm around your age.

It sounds like your therapist is very good, and understands the value
of getting out of the office and doing exposures.

This group is very old, dating back to my association with the
Stanford Shyness Clinic.  I don't know much about the other online
groups.  But do check into meetup.com for in-person groups.

--Bob


On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 6:38 PM, spatler1 <spatler1@...> wrote:
>
>
> In the ASDI group I don't know if there will even be a workbook. Same goes for
the DC group, although I expect he will use one. The Havre de Grace group will
follow along with Dr. R's tapes and workbook. He is not a professional and
operates by mimicing Dr. R's methods.
>
> I have found what Dr. R says about the lack of effective treatment to be very
true. I had no problem finding a therapist who understood SA and CBT. My guy is
a very well educated PhD (Yale then PhD at Berkley). On the cognitive side his
understanding of SA is in lock step with what Dr. R teaches. However, he is
quite ineffective at coming up with behavioral experiments. He has no planned
approach and he started me off by taking me to a mall and doing stuff that I now
realize was WAY too advanced for me...it flooded me.
>
> In the last 6 weeks I basically GUIDED HIM into doing very small bits, as that
is what Dr. R said was important...things I didn't want to do, but could and
would do. Repetition of these was also a key. I am now on "level 4" of this
hierarchy. 1, 2, and 3 are now anxiety-less behavior for me. My life has become
a "behavioral experiment world" where I constantly take advantage of situations
as they arise to keep repeating these few experiments. The power of these
seemingly small steps has been much greater than I ever would have thought. My
therapist is very good at breaking down the experiments each week. I consider
myself still a novice of SA, but I now have a taste of the power of CBT done
right.
>
> You seem to go back a ways in SA and know a lot. I hope it has worked out well
for you. I noticed there is an entire SA section here on Yahoo, yet this group
is in the "Advice" section. Are you a member of any of the SA groups? Could you
recommend a good one?
>
> --- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, Bob Mayo <soc-yg2@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi. I hope your local SA group goes well. What workbook will you be
> > using? I highly recommend Managing Social Anxiety: A
> > Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy Approach Client Workbook by Debra A.
> > Hope, Richard G. Heimberg, Harlan A. Juster, and Cynthia L. Turk.
> > There's an associated therapist's workbook, too, which is interesting
> > for both patient and therapist alike.
> >
> > Dr Richards does his own form of CBT. The Cognitive portion is quite
> > different from the CBT that most therapists do, as you can tell from
> > his tapes. As you point out, he's definitely a man on a mission to
> > cure SA. He also has a large amount of clinical experience, judgment,
> > and techniques that are lacking in the normal forms of CBT. Too bad
> > there is no grad student out there that wants to take one of his
> > techniques and write a thesis comparing it to normal CBT; such a study
> > would be a valuable contribution and also provide additional tools to
> > therapists.
> >
> > The big lesson I got from the 3-week program is that avoidance is the
> > thing that prevents progress, and the cure is to make your exposures
> > really small. By small I mean really small. As long as you are
> > avoiding it, make it smaller and do it. For instance, if you are
> > avoiding reading a handout out loud just read the first sentence out
> > loud. If you are avoiding reading the first sentence out loud then
> > just read the first 3 words out loud. Whatever it is has to be
> > active, though, not passive like just listening.
> >
> > Sounds like you are really going after this with great thoroughness!
> >
> > --Bob
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 3:54 PM, spatler1 <spatler1@...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Bob, Thanks for the welcoming greeting. I'm very glad to hear your high
opinion of the 3 week group. I have tried twice to take it, this past spring and
this summer. Unfortunately, it was cancelled both times due to not enough
people. I am chomping at the bit to get into a good group, and I eventually
will, but I have had to be patient.
> > >
> > > Next month ASDI in Towson, MD, where my therapist is, is starting an SA
group. They don't have experience with SA groups, but it is a start and I am
grateful. Then in October I really get rolling. I am signed up for Larry Cohen's
20-week group in DC. I don't know as much about him, but my therapist knows him
and says he is very good and he is listed on Dr. R's mailing list, which I take
as an endorsement. His website also gives me reason for optimism as he seems to
be all business about SA (socialanxietyhelp.com).
> > >
> > > There is also a grad of the Phoenix 3-week intensive in Havre De Grace, MD
who will also be running an all-day Saturday 20-week group starting in the Fall.
By the time the next 3-week intensive rolls around I may not need it, although I
have listened to the tapes so many times I feel like I know Dr. R, and would be
temped to go to meet him and experience his group! My impression is he is the
best of very few options. It seems he is "on a mission" against SA...would you
agree?
> > >
> > > I've never heard of meetup.com, but will definately check it out. Many
thanks for that info. Sorry for the long post.
> > >
> > > --- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, Bob Mayo <soc-yg2@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Welcome. I took Dr Richards' 3-week intensive in Arizona, which was
> > > > amazing. Having a like-minded group can really accelerate your
> > > > progress. Have you checked meetup.com for a local "shyness" group?
> > > > Or perhaps you would consider organizing one.
> > > >
> > > > The group support can add a lot of momentum to your exposures.
> > > >
> > > > --Bob
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 7:47 PM, spatler1<spatler1@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I just found this group too. I am 52 and have had SA my entire life,
> > > > > although it was not until 9 months ago that I found that out. I just
thought
> > > > > it was the way I was and that I was depressed. Since then I have been
using
> > > > > Dr. Richards tape series (very helpful) and seeing a CBT psych
one-on-one
> > > > > (because I can't find a local group). I have made progress, with a lot
of
> > > > > work, but I really need an SA group.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, "videodrone323"
<stomoxys23@>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I've been dealing with social anxiety for a while now. I am making
> > > > >> progress, albeit rather slowly. I've been looking around for
> > > > >> resources, and happened upon this forum. I've perused the posts, and
> > > > >> you all seem like a friendly group, I hope to share what I know, and
> > > > >> learn from others.
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>

In the ASDI group I don't know if there will even be a workbook.  Same goes for
the DC group, although I expect he will use one.  The Havre de Grace group will
follow along with Dr. R's tapes and workbook.  He is not a professional and
operates by mimicing Dr. R's methods.

I have found what Dr. R says about the lack of effective treatment to be very
true.  I had no problem finding a therapist who understood SA and CBT.  My guy
is a very well educated PhD (Yale then PhD at Berkley).  On the cognitive side
his understanding of SA is in lock step with what Dr. R teaches.  However, he is
quite ineffective at coming up with behavioral experiments.  He has no planned
approach and he started me off by taking me to a mall and doing stuff that I now
realize was WAY too advanced for me...it flooded me.

In the last 6 weeks I basically GUIDED HIM into doing very small bits, as that
is what Dr. R said was important...things I didn't want to do, but could and
would do.  Repetition of these was also a key.  I am now on "level 4" of this
hierarchy.  1, 2, and 3 are now anxiety-less behavior for me.  My life has
become a "behavioral experiment world" where I constantly take advantage of
situations as they arise to keep repeating these few experiments. The power of
these seemingly small steps has been much greater than I ever would have
thought.  My therapist is very good at breaking down the experiments each week. 
I consider myself still a novice of SA, but I now have a taste of the power of
CBT done right.

You seem to go back a ways in SA and know a lot.  I hope it has worked out well
for you.  I noticed there is an entire SA section here on Yahoo, yet this group
is in the "Advice" section.  Are you a member of any of the SA groups?  Could
you recommend a good one?

--- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, Bob Mayo <soc-yg2@...> wrote:
>
> Hi.  I hope your local SA group goes well. What workbook will you be
> using?  I highly recommend Managing Social Anxiety: A
> Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy Approach Client Workbook by Debra A.
> Hope, Richard G. Heimberg, Harlan A. Juster, and Cynthia L. Turk.
> There's an associated therapist's workbook, too, which is interesting
> for both patient and therapist alike.
>
> Dr Richards does his own form of CBT.  The Cognitive portion is quite
> different from the CBT that most therapists do, as you can tell from
> his tapes.  As you point out, he's definitely a man on a mission to
> cure SA.  He also has a large amount of clinical experience, judgment,
> and techniques that are lacking in the normal forms of CBT.  Too bad
> there is no grad student out there that wants to take one of his
> techniques and write a thesis comparing it to normal CBT; such a study
> would be a valuable contribution and also provide additional tools to
> therapists.
>
> The big lesson I got from the 3-week program is that avoidance is the
> thing that prevents progress, and the cure is to make your exposures
> really small.  By small I mean really small.  As long as you are
> avoiding it, make it smaller and do it.  For instance, if you are
> avoiding reading a handout out loud just read the first sentence out
> loud.  If you are avoiding reading the first sentence out loud then
> just read the first 3 words out loud.  Whatever it is has to be
> active, though, not passive like just listening.
>
> Sounds like you are really going after this with great thoroughness!
>
> --Bob
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 3:54 PM, spatler1 <spatler1@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Bob, Thanks for the welcoming greeting. I'm very glad to hear your high
opinion of the 3 week group. I have tried twice to take it, this past spring and
this summer. Unfortunately, it was cancelled both times due to not enough
people. I am chomping at the bit to get into a good group, and I eventually
will, but I have had to be patient.
> >
> > Next month ASDI in Towson, MD, where my therapist is, is starting an SA
group. They don't have experience with SA groups, but it is a start and I am
grateful. Then in October I really get rolling. I am signed up for Larry Cohen's
20-week group in DC. I don't know as much about him, but my therapist knows him
and says he is very good and he is listed on Dr. R's mailing list, which I take
as an endorsement. His website also gives me reason for optimism as he seems to
be all business about SA (socialanxietyhelp.com).
> >
> > There is also a grad of the Phoenix 3-week intensive in Havre De Grace, MD
who will also be running an all-day Saturday 20-week group starting in the Fall.
By the time the next 3-week intensive rolls around I may not need it, although I
have listened to the tapes so many times I feel like I know Dr. R, and would be
temped to go to meet him and experience his group! My impression is he is the
best of very few options. It seems he is "on a mission" against SA...would you
agree?
> >
> > I've never heard of meetup.com, but will definately check it out. Many
thanks for that info. Sorry for the long post.
> >
> > --- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, Bob Mayo <soc-yg2@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Welcome. I took Dr Richards' 3-week intensive in Arizona, which was
> > > amazing. Having a like-minded group can really accelerate your
> > > progress. Have you checked meetup.com for a local "shyness" group?
> > > Or perhaps you would consider organizing one.
> > >
> > > The group support can add a lot of momentum to your exposures.
> > >
> > > --Bob
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 7:47 PM, spatler1<spatler1@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I just found this group too. I am 52 and have had SA my entire life,
> > > > although it was not until 9 months ago that I found that out. I just
thought
> > > > it was the way I was and that I was depressed. Since then I have been
using
> > > > Dr. Richards tape series (very helpful) and seeing a CBT psych
one-on-one
> > > > (because I can't find a local group). I have made progress, with a lot
of
> > > > work, but I really need an SA group.
> > > >
> > > > --- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, "videodrone323" <stomoxys23@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> I've been dealing with social anxiety for a while now. I am making
> > > >> progress, albeit rather slowly. I've been looking around for
> > > >> resources, and happened upon this forum. I've perused the posts, and
> > > >> you all seem like a friendly group, I hope to share what I know, and
> > > >> learn from others.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>

Hi.  I hope your local SA group goes well. What workbook will you be
using?  I highly recommend Managing Social Anxiety: A
Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy Approach Client Workbook by Debra A.
Hope, Richard G. Heimberg, Harlan A. Juster, and Cynthia L. Turk.
There's an associated therapist's workbook, too, which is interesting
for both patient and therapist alike.

Dr Richards does his own form of CBT.  The Cognitive portion is quite
different from the CBT that most therapists do, as you can tell from
his tapes.  As you point out, he's definitely a man on a mission to
cure SA.  He also has a large amount of clinical experience, judgment,
and techniques that are lacking in the normal forms of CBT.  Too bad
there is no grad student out there that wants to take one of his
techniques and write a thesis comparing it to normal CBT; such a study
would be a valuable contribution and also provide additional tools to
therapists.

The big lesson I got from the 3-week program is that avoidance is the
thing that prevents progress, and the cure is to make your exposures
really small.  By small I mean really small.  As long as you are
avoiding it, make it smaller and do it.  For instance, if you are
avoiding reading a handout out loud just read the first sentence out
loud.  If you are avoiding reading the first sentence out loud then
just read the first 3 words out loud.  Whatever it is has to be
active, though, not passive like just listening.

Sounds like you are really going after this with great thoroughness!

--Bob


On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 3:54 PM, spatler1 <spatler1@...> wrote:
>
>
> Bob, Thanks for the welcoming greeting. I'm very glad to hear your high
opinion of the 3 week group. I have tried twice to take it, this past spring and
this summer. Unfortunately, it was cancelled both times due to not enough
people. I am chomping at the bit to get into a good group, and I eventually
will, but I have had to be patient.
>
> Next month ASDI in Towson, MD, where my therapist is, is starting an SA group.
They don't have experience with SA groups, but it is a start and I am grateful.
Then in October I really get rolling. I am signed up for Larry Cohen's 20-week
group in DC. I don't know as much about him, but my therapist knows him and says
he is very good and he is listed on Dr. R's mailing list, which I take as an
endorsement. His website also gives me reason for optimism as he seems to be all
business about SA (socialanxietyhelp.com).
>
> There is also a grad of the Phoenix 3-week intensive in Havre De Grace, MD who
will also be running an all-day Saturday 20-week group starting in the Fall. By
the time the next 3-week intensive rolls around I may not need it, although I
have listened to the tapes so many times I feel like I know Dr. R, and would be
temped to go to meet him and experience his group! My impression is he is the
best of very few options. It seems he is "on a mission" against SA...would you
agree?
>
> I've never heard of meetup.com, but will definately check it out. Many thanks
for that info. Sorry for the long post.
>
> --- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, Bob Mayo <soc-yg2@...> wrote:
> >
> > Welcome. I took Dr Richards' 3-week intensive in Arizona, which was
> > amazing. Having a like-minded group can really accelerate your
> > progress. Have you checked meetup.com for a local "shyness" group?
> > Or perhaps you would consider organizing one.
> >
> > The group support can add a lot of momentum to your exposures.
> >
> > --Bob
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 7:47 PM, spatler1<spatler1@...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I just found this group too. I am 52 and have had SA my entire life,
> > > although it was not until 9 months ago that I found that out. I just
thought
> > > it was the way I was and that I was depressed. Since then I have been
using
> > > Dr. Richards tape series (very helpful) and seeing a CBT psych one-on-one
> > > (because I can't find a local group). I have made progress, with a lot of
> > > work, but I really need an SA group.
> > >
> > > --- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, "videodrone323" <stomoxys23@>
> > > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I've been dealing with social anxiety for a while now. I am making
> > >> progress, albeit rather slowly. I've been looking around for
> > >> resources, and happened upon this forum. I've perused the posts, and
> > >> you all seem like a friendly group, I hope to share what I know, and
> > >> learn from others.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>

Bob, Thanks for the welcoming greeting.  I'm very glad to hear your high opinion
of the 3 week group.  I have tried twice to take it, this past spring and this
summer.  Unfortunately, it was cancelled both times due to not enough people.  I
am chomping at the bit to get into a good group, and I eventually will, but I
have had to be patient.

Next month ASDI in Towson, MD, where my therapist is, is starting an SA group. 
They don't have experience with SA groups, but it is a start and I am grateful. 
Then in October I really get rolling.  I am signed up for Larry Cohen's 20-week
group in DC.  I don't know as much about him, but my therapist knows him and
says he is very good and he is listed on Dr. R's mailing list, which I take as
an endorsement.  His website also gives me reason for optimism as he seems to be
all business about SA (socialanxietyhelp.com).

There is also a grad of the Phoenix 3-week intensive in Havre De Grace, MD who
will also be running an all-day Saturday 20-week group starting in the Fall.  By
the time the next 3-week intensive rolls around I may not need it, although I
have listened to the tapes so many times I feel like I know Dr. R, and would be
temped to go to meet him and experience his group!  My impression is he is the
best of very few options.  It seems he is "on a mission" against SA...would you
agree?

I've never heard of meetup.com, but will definately check it out.  Many thanks
for that info.  Sorry for the long post.


--- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, Bob Mayo <soc-yg2@...> wrote:
>
> Welcome.  I took Dr Richards' 3-week intensive in Arizona, which was
> amazing.  Having a like-minded group can really accelerate your
> progress.  Have you checked meetup.com for a local "shyness" group?
> Or perhaps you would consider organizing one.
>
> The group support can add a lot of momentum to your exposures.
>
> --Bob
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 7:47 PM, spatler1<spatler1@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I just found this group too. I am 52 and have had SA my entire life,
> > although it was not until 9 months ago that I found that out. I just thought
> > it was the way I was and that I was depressed. Since then I have been using
> > Dr. Richards tape series (very helpful) and seeing a CBT psych one-on-one
> > (because I can't find a local group). I have made progress, with a lot of
> > work, but I really need an SA group.
> >
> > --- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, "videodrone323" <stomoxys23@>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I've been dealing with social anxiety for a while now. I am making
> >> progress, albeit rather slowly. I've been looking around for
> >> resources, and happened upon this forum. I've perused the posts, and
> >> you all seem like a friendly group, I hope to share what I know, and
> >> learn from others.
> >>
> >
> >
>

Welcome.  I took Dr Richards' 3-week intensive in Arizona, which was
amazing.  Having a like-minded group can really accelerate your
progress.  Have you checked meetup.com for a local "shyness" group?
Or perhaps you would consider organizing one.

The group support can add a lot of momentum to your exposures.

--Bob


On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 7:47 PM, spatler1<spatler1@...> wrote:
>
>
> I just found this group too. I am 52 and have had SA my entire life,
> although it was not until 9 months ago that I found that out. I just thought
> it was the way I was and that I was depressed. Since then I have been using
> Dr. Richards tape series (very helpful) and seeing a CBT psych one-on-one
> (because I can't find a local group). I have made progress, with a lot of
> work, but I really need an SA group.
>
> --- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, "videodrone323" <stomoxys23@...>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I've been dealing with social anxiety for a while now. I am making
>> progress, albeit rather slowly. I've been looking around for
>> resources, and happened upon this forum. I've perused the posts, and
>> you all seem like a friendly group, I hope to share what I know, and
>> learn from others.
>>
>
>

I just found this group too.  I am 52 and have had SA my entire life, although
it was not until 9 months ago that I found that out.  I just thought it was the
way I was and that I was depressed.  Since then I have been using Dr. Richards
tape series (very helpful) and seeing a CBT psych one-on-one (because I can't
find a local group).  I have made progress, with a lot of work, but I really
need an SA group.


--- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, "videodrone323" <stomoxys23@...>
wrote:
>
>
>
> I've been dealing with social anxiety for a while now. I am making
> progress, albeit rather slowly. I've been looking around for
> resources, and happened upon this forum. I've perused the posts, and
> you all seem like a friendly group, I hope to share what I know, and
> learn from others.
>

In the women and dating circles, you're probably right. He would tend to attract
the intellectual types. I used to think his whole thing about by  teaching guys
the basis for what works rather than a bunch of techniques, so that you can
adapt that to your own personality was a great marketing message, but not much
more. Since I got a bunch of his tele-seminars though, I'm starting to see how
maybe he could pull that off. I'm moving in a few months and will start to put
this stuff into practice once I do. I'll let you know how it goes.

You too?  Wow!  I also highly recommend Dr Paul's stuff, but my
experience is that it is best for analytical people (engineers,
scientists, nerds, etc).  If you are that type of person be sure to
check his stuff out.  His MindOS book is great -- I don't know if he
still sells it or not.  Also his book on boundaries, which I think is
what he sells as Mature Masculine Power.

--Bob


On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Laurence Baker<ted@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, "emaildjamel" <emaildjamel@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> hi, i have a big deficulty to talk to the girls it makes me really upset
>> so please if you have any solution for me i really need it
>> thank you
>>
>
> Check out http://www.doctorpaul.net/
>
> I've been following him for a long time, and I've been really impressed with
> the depth of his knowledge.
>
>

--- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, "emaildjamel" <emaildjamel@...>
wrote:
>
> hi, i have a big deficulty to talk to the girls it makes me really upset so
please if you have any solution for me i really need it
> thank you
>


Check out http://www.doctorpaul.net/

I've been following him for a long time, and I've been really impressed with the
depth of his knowledge.

----- Original Message -----

From: Will

To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 12:03 AM

Subject: Re: [SocialFitnessForum] thank u guys

With practice it will come easier. Girls don't like indecisive guys.
Women run away because... the ones you talk to are assholes. There
are girls who are just plain nasty. Even girls you would not thing
are bad, they end up being so. A lot is with communication. Girls
have major communication problems. You expect them to act one way and
they act another. You can't expect girls to tell you anything. It's
best not to dwell. If you don't hear back from a girl after a
day(even if you call a day later), forget about her. she may respond
a few days later, but if she was really into you, even just as a
friend, she would make the initiative to call you or call you back.
Or make the effort to just get in touch with you and ask whats up.
They may try to be nice, even invite you places on occasion. But this
is the communication issue. They will be nice to you, but take it at
face value. She'd be nice to a total stranger. It's perhaps a subtle
hint at saying she's sorry she doesn not want to be good friends with
you, or just the way she is. The niceness does not indicate that she
is good, but she is unable to reject herself.

On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 11:42 PM, emaildjamel <emaildjamel@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> I have a question dos the girls don't like shy guys ? And why ? Because
> whenever I talk to the girls my face color goes red and I get nervous and
> confused and girl just run away can I change that or I have to live with it
> the rest of my life?.
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Will

To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 11:05 PM

Subject: Re: [SocialFitnessForum] am,i shy?

I had joked with him about picturing girls with penises. I haven't
used this in so long I was not sure i could reply to this address.
Women are just men with an xtra hole.

In seriousness. Women are human.

I don't think you have fear of rejection, but are overcompensating
your social attitude to try to minimize rejection. Basically,
overthinking the perfect thing to say to create a friendship. Friends
are not friends because they said the right things to each other.
They are friends because they can say the wrong things and are
confident about it, as well as sharing a few things in common.

On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Sam Rau <sam.rau@wmich.edu> wrote:
>
>
> I want to thank you for writing in here.  Not only have we not had any
> social activity on here lately (c'mon, guys) but we also have someone taking
> a very proactive step towards change.  I always appreciate it when someone
> brings stuff like this up because it lets us know that someone else is going
> what we've either been through or are still going through.  Of course we'll
> share our advice with you!
>
> Perhaps you could tell us a bit more about your difficulty?  I've often had
> difficulty in social situations and with women, however I find that my
> difficulty with women is sort of different from that when in other
> situations.  Could you describe a typical scene that happens, and perhaps
> talk a bit about what you say to yourself, feelings, mental pictures etc.
> When we do this it helps us get clearer about what makes us uncomfortable
> and helps us to paint a better picture of what we want to happen rather than
> just letting things happen and see what turns up.  Also can you speak a bit
> about what you expect to happen?  Often times when I'm expecting something
> bad to happen I have certain feelings that let me know that this for sure
> aint turning out the way I want it to without even knowing it, and then when
> things do turn out awesome I'm still concerned with my expectation that it
> wouldn't and...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: emaildjamel
> To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 9:39 PM
> Subject: [SocialFitnessForum] am,i shy?
>
> hi, i have a big deficulty to talk to the girls it makes me really upset so
> please if you have any solution for me i really need it
> thank you
>
>

With practice it will come easier.  Girls don't like indecisive guys.
Women run away because...  the ones you talk to are assholes.  There
are girls who are just plain nasty.  Even girls you would not thing
are bad, they end up being so.  A lot is with communication.  Girls
have major communication problems.  You expect them to act one way and
they act another.  You can't expect girls to tell you anything.  It's
best not to dwell.  If you don't hear back from a girl after a
day(even if you call a day later), forget about her.  she may respond
a few days later, but if she was really into you, even just as a
friend, she would make the initiative to call you or call you back.
Or make the effort to just get in touch with you and ask whats up.
They may try to be nice, even invite you places on occasion.  But this
is the communication issue.  They will be nice to you, but take it at
face value.  She'd be nice to a total stranger.  It's perhaps a subtle
hint at saying she's sorry she doesn not want to be good friends with
you, or just the way she is.  The niceness does not indicate that she
is good, but she is unable to reject herself.

On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 11:42 PM, emaildjamel <emaildjamel@...> wrote:
>
>
> I have a question dos the girls don't like shy guys ? And why ? Because
> whenever I talk to the girls my face color goes red and I get nervous and
> confused and girl just run away can I change that or I have to live with it
> the rest of my life?.
>
>

I have a question dos the girls don't like shy guys ? And why ? Because whenever
I talk to the girls my face color goes red  and I get nervous and confused  and
girl just run away  can I change that or I have to live with it  the rest of my
life?.

I had joked with him about picturing girls with penises.  I haven't
used this in so long I was not sure i could reply to this address.
Women are just men with  an xtra hole.

In seriousness.  Women are human.

I don't think you have fear of rejection, but are overcompensating
your social attitude to try to minimize rejection.  Basically,
overthinking the perfect thing to say to create a friendship.  Friends
are not friends because they said the right things to each other.
They are friends because they can say the wrong things and are
confident about it, as well as sharing a few things in common.

On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Sam Rau <sam.rau@...> wrote:
>
>
> I want to thank you for writing in here.  Not only have we not had any
> social activity on here lately (c'mon, guys) but we also have someone taking
> a very proactive step towards change.  I always appreciate it when someone
> brings stuff like this up because it lets us know that someone else is going
> what we've either been through or are still going through.  Of course we'll
> share our advice with you!
>
> Perhaps you could tell us a bit more about your difficulty?  I've often had
> difficulty in social situations and with women, however I find that my
> difficulty with women is sort of different from that when in other
> situations.  Could you describe a typical scene that happens, and perhaps
> talk a bit about what you say to yourself, feelings, mental pictures etc.
> When we do this it helps us get clearer about what makes us uncomfortable
> and helps us to paint a better picture of what we want to happen rather than
> just letting things happen and see what turns up.  Also can you speak a bit
> about what you expect to happen?  Often times when I'm expecting something
> bad to happen I have certain feelings that let me know that this for sure
> aint turning out the way I want it to without even knowing it, and then when
> things do turn out awesome I'm still concerned with my expectation that it
> wouldn't and...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: emaildjamel
> To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 9:39 PM
> Subject: [SocialFitnessForum] am,i shy?
>
> hi, i have a big deficulty to talk to the girls it makes me really upset so
> please if you have any solution for me i really need it
> thank you
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: emaildjamel

To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 9:39 PM

Subject: [SocialFitnessForum] am,i shy?

hi, i have a big deficulty to talk to the girls it makes me really upset so please if you have any solution for me i really need it
thank you

hi, i have a big deficulty to talk to the girls it makes me really upset so
please if you have any solution for me i really need it
thank you

Hi,

My name is James Williams. I am currently undertaking a PhD in Psychology at Swinburne University in Melbourne, Australia. I am interested in some of the personality processes involved in social phobia and social anxiety. The study's findings are expected to have implications for improving the ways in which we can help people to overcome their anxiety.

I am just wondering if anyone was interested in participating in this study. I am looking for people who suffer from social anxiety and also those who do not. The study is entirely web based and can be found at http://opinio.online.swin.edu.au/s?s=5214

The questionnaire is long but you can save your progress and return to finish the questionnaire later.

If anyone has any questions about the study, please feel free to contact me – JSWilliams1979@...

Your participation in this project would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards

James Williams

Welcome.

It's been pretty slow here the past year.

--Bob

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 3:41 PM, videodrone323 <stomoxys23@...> wrote:
>
>
> I've been dealing with social anxiety for a while now. I am making
> progress, albeit rather slowly. I've been looking around for
> resources, and happened upon this forum. I've perused the posts, and
> you all seem like a friendly group, I hope to share what I know, and
> learn from others.
>
>

I've been dealing with social anxiety for a while now. I am making
progress, albeit rather slowly. I've been looking around for
resources, and happened upon this forum. I've perused the posts, and
you all seem like a friendly group, I hope to share what I know, and
learn from others.

From: pinkshiro16

To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 2:41 AM

Subject: [SocialFitnessForum] Re: Shy all my life & need help

--- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, "Box" <soc-yg2@...> wrote:
>
> Cognitive-behavioral therapy seems to work best for social anxiety.
> It is not complicated but produces gradual progress over several
> years. I suggest you find a therapist that specializes in it, or good
> book or audio series on the topic.
>

Thank you for your comments and thoughts.

I didn't look at the dates alongside the other threads, and it wasn't
until after I had posted that I realised that this group had been quiet
for some time...

Sam, i'm sorry to hear about your loss of your friend.

I appreciated your comments regarding stepping back and taking a look
at the vicious cycle that is shyness. It's a funny thing, I am totally
100% aware that I am creating my own fears and anxieties, but never
seem to be able to bring myself out of them.

I was afraid that my post was going to go unread, so again, thank you
for replying. Makes me feel better to know other people have finally
listened to how I really feel.

Talk soon.

--- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, "Box" <soc-yg2@...> wrote:
>
> Cognitive-behavioral therapy seems to work best for social anxiety.
> It is not complicated but produces gradual progress over several
> years.  I suggest you find a therapist that specializes in it, or good
> book or audio series on the topic.
>

Thank you for your comments and thoughts.

I didn't look at the dates alongside the other threads, and it wasn't
until after I had posted that I realised that this group had been quiet
for some time...

Sam, i'm sorry to hear about your loss of your friend.

I appreciated your comments regarding stepping back and taking a look
at the vicious cycle that is shyness. It's a funny thing, I am totally
100% aware that I am creating my own fears and anxieties, but never
seem to be able to bring myself out of them.

I was afraid that my post was going to go unread, so again, thank you
for replying. Makes me feel better to know other people have finally
listened to how I really feel.

Talk soon.

Cognitive-behavioral therapy seems to work best for social anxiety.
It is not complicated but produces gradual progress over several
years.  I suggest you find a therapist that specializes in it, or good
book or audio series on the topic.

----- Original Message -----

From: pinkshiro16

To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 10:15 PM

Subject: [SocialFitnessForum] Shy all my life & need help

Hi Everyone,

Just found this group in my search for information on shyness on the
web. I am 27, and have spent my teenage and adult life under the
shadow of a shy personality, which has hindered both my personal and
professional life.

I have only just recently sat down and put a word to how I feel. I
have mulled over words like "depressed", "introverted", "lazy" for a
long time - and just came to the realization that these are (for me
at least) side effects of my severe shyness. I unfortunately have had
nowhere to turn to "get help" with this and it has taken me a
looooong time to confront myself with the big S word (shy).

I am the type of person who has one or two friends at a time, and
long for a "group" of friends. I have thought about all my past "good
friends", and they are all the type of person who don't react badly
to my shyness - as if they don't see it. They just treat me like a
normal person. But sometimes friends move on, and for the past year
and a half I have found myself in a situation of having no friends at
all :( Which has caused me to feel extremely isolated and cut off to
the rest of civilisation.

Which is strange - I have a loving fiance, so i'm not strictly alone.
She is shy too (not as bad as me), so we are almost catalysts for
each others shyness. Neither of us have a group of friends that we
can pull the other partner along with. So we spend night after night
inside the house not socializing. I use online gaming as a (poor)
substitute to socializing, and she does hobbies and watches TV. My
own hobbies besides gaming are all loner hobbies like comics and
collecting action figures (heh...) - hobbies I feel ashamed of most
of the time.

But this isn't a sob story - I do try to help myself. I try to have a
positive outlook when in social situations. But I find it hard. In
terms of family and people who have known me for a long time, it's
harder than with strangers - because they have known me for so long
as the shy person, so I feel their attitude towards me prevents me
from breaking out of my shyness when around them. I will sit in at a
family gathering and try to talk to people....y'know, strike up
conversations? They will answer the question I throw at them, and
then not follow on the conversation. Having a discussion is a two way
street, so the talking kinda stops because they don't reach back out
to me. Which makes me feel so uncomfortable that I just shrink back
into my old self and sit there. No one comes up to strike up
conversations with me, but they will talk to everyone else in the
room - making me feel like an outcast. Maybe they see me as not
wanting to talk, so I know some of the blame in this situation lays
at my own feet. But it seems no matter how much I try, I can't (and
people who know me make it really hard) to break out of the shyness.
As if i'm stuck in this role for life - a horridly depressing thought.

Before any social outings, I start feeling uncomfortable up to 4 or 5
hours before the time, knowing what lies in wait. I go through phases
of grumpyness and trying to talk myself out of not going to the party
or the dinner or whatever function it is. After social outings I feel
depressed and sometimes start thinking suicidal thoughts.

Work isn't much better. Since graduating from my degree, I have
settles for second best. I went to work in a factory, claiming
that "there was no jobs out there for me" when i didn't even look!! I
have always put that down to lazyness - similar to me not trying in
my studies at uni. It stems from not wanting to stand out in fear of
akward situations. So I have settled for second best jobs. I am
currently working in my proffesion of choice - but not strictly
because I was brave enough to break out of the vicious cycle. My boss
is a felow former gamer, so conincidence led me into my current job.
It's a low paying job for what I can do, but I never ask for a pay
rise or look else where for a better job. The social aspect of work
is similar to my family - they already know me, so attempts to break
out of the shyness fail and they don't seem to treat me like they
treat anyone else. When we have nights out with the staff, my boss
makes jokes about how quiet I am and doesn't hesitate to tell anyone
who doesn't know me how quiet I am...which doesn't make for a fun
night!

So I am really desperate for some help. I am friendless, and lonely.
My wedding is in 6 months and I have no one to turn to to be my best
man :( Well, no one who deserves that roll I mean.

I seriously think Shyness is a mental health issue. It has caused me
such pain and anxiety in my life that I couldn't see how it could be
anything else. But I don't want to be the shy guy all my life -
"quiet guy" I can live with - but shyness is a totally different
kettle of fish to quietness.

Thank you for listening and letting me get this off my chest. I hope
some of you can relate and give me feedback about how I can break
this cycle of shyness.

Mike

Please email *r*a*d*c*a*s*t*r*o*@*r*a*d*c*a*s*t*r*o*.com
minus the * of course.
Thanks!

Please email *r*a*d*c*a*s*t*r*o*@*r*a*d*c*a*s*t*r*o*.com
minus the * of course.
Thanks!

Please email *r*a*d*c*a*s*t*r*o*@*r*a*d*c*a*s*t*r*o*.com
minus the * of course.
Thanks!

Please email *r*a*d*c*a*s*t*r*o*@*r*a*d*c*a*s*t*r*o*.com
minus the * of course.
Thanks!

Please email *r*a*d*c*a*s*t*r*o*@*r*a*d*c*a*s*t*r*o*.com
minus the * of course.
Thanks!

Please email *r*a*d*c*a*s*t*r*o*@*r*a*d*c*a*s*t*r*o*.com
minus the * of course.
Thanks!