Please email *r*a*d*c*a*s*t*r*o*@*r*a*d*c*a*s*t*r*o*.com
minus the * of course.
Thanks!

Please email *r*a*d*c*a*s*t*r*o*@*r*a*d*c*a*s*t*r*o*.com
minus the * of course.
Thanks!

Please email *r*a*d*c*a*s*t*r*o*@*r*a*d*c*a*s*t*r*o*.com
minus the * of course.
Thanks!

Please email *r*a*d*c*a*s*t*r*o*@*r*a*d*c*a*s*t*r*o*.com
minus the * of course.
Thanks!

Please email *r*a*d*c*a*s*t*r*o*@*r*a*d*c*a*s*t*r*o*.com
minus the * of course.
Thanks!

Please email *r*a*d*c*a*s*t*r*o*@*r*a*d*c*a*s*t*r*o*.com
minus the * of course.
Thanks!

Hi Everyone,

Just found this group in my search for information on shyness on the
web. I am 27, and have spent my teenage and adult life under the
shadow of a shy personality, which has hindered both my personal and
professional life.

I have only just recently sat down and put a word to how I feel. I
have mulled over words like "depressed", "introverted", "lazy" for a
long time - and just came to the realization that these are (for me
at least) side effects of my severe shyness. I unfortunately have had
nowhere to turn to "get help" with this and it has taken me a
looooong time to confront myself with the big S word (shy).

I am the type of person who has one or two friends at a time, and
long for a "group" of friends. I have thought about all my past "good
friends", and they are all the type of person who don't react badly
to my shyness - as if they don't see it. They just treat me like a
normal person. But sometimes friends move on, and for the past year
and a half I have found myself in a situation of having no friends at
all :( Which has caused me to feel extremely isolated and cut off to
the rest of civilisation.

Which is strange - I have a loving fiance, so i'm not strictly alone.
She is shy too (not as bad as me), so we are almost catalysts for
each others shyness. Neither of us have a group of friends that we
can pull the other partner along with. So we spend night after night
inside the house not socializing. I use online gaming as a (poor)
substitute to socializing, and she does hobbies and watches TV. My
own hobbies besides gaming are all loner hobbies like comics and
collecting action figures (heh...) - hobbies I feel ashamed of most
of the time.

But this isn't a sob story - I do try to help myself. I try to have a
positive outlook when in social situations. But I find it hard. In
terms of family and people who have known me for a long time, it's
harder than with strangers - because they have known me for so long
as the shy person, so I feel their attitude towards me prevents me
from breaking out of my shyness when around them. I will sit in at a
family gathering and try to talk to people....y'know, strike up
conversations? They will answer the question I throw at them, and
then not follow on the conversation. Having a discussion is a two way
street, so the talking kinda stops because they don't reach back out
to me. Which makes me feel so uncomfortable that I just shrink back
into my old self and sit there. No one comes up to strike up
conversations with me, but they will talk to everyone else in the
room - making me feel like an outcast. Maybe they see me as not
wanting to talk, so I know some of the blame in this situation lays
at my own feet. But it seems no matter how much I try, I can't (and
people who know me make it really hard) to break out of the shyness.
As if i'm stuck in this role for life - a horridly depressing thought.

Before any social outings, I start feeling uncomfortable up to 4 or 5
hours before the time, knowing what lies in wait. I go through phases
of grumpyness and trying to talk myself out of not going to the party
or the dinner or whatever function it is. After social outings I feel
depressed and sometimes start thinking suicidal thoughts.

Work isn't much better. Since graduating from my degree, I have
settles for second best. I went to work in a factory, claiming
that "there was no jobs out there for me" when i didn't even look!! I
have always put that down to lazyness - similar to me not trying in
my studies at uni. It stems from not wanting to stand out in fear of
akward situations. So I have settled for second best jobs. I am
currently working in my proffesion of choice - but not strictly
because I was brave enough to break out of the vicious cycle. My boss
is a felow former gamer, so conincidence led me into my current job.
It's a low paying job for what I can do, but I never ask for a pay
rise or look else where for a better job. The social aspect of work
is similar to my family - they already know me, so attempts to break
out of the shyness fail and they don't seem to treat me like they
treat anyone else. When we have nights out with the staff, my boss
makes jokes about how quiet I am and doesn't hesitate to tell anyone
who doesn't know me how quiet I am...which doesn't make for a fun
night!

So I am really desperate for some help. I am friendless, and lonely.
My wedding is in 6 months and I have no one to turn to to be my best
man :( Well, no one who deserves that roll I mean.

I seriously think Shyness is a mental health issue. It has caused me
such pain and anxiety in my life that I couldn't see how it could be
anything else. But I don't want to be the shy guy all my life -
  "quiet guy" I can live with - but shyness is a totally different
kettle of fish to quietness.

Thank you for listening and letting me get this off my chest. I hope
some of you can relate and give me feedback about how I can break
this cycle of shyness.

Mike

----- Original Message -----

From: Laurence Baker

To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 6:18 PM

Subject: [SocialFitnessForum] Centerpointe courses

Yes, that's actually the lesson I'm talking about. Moving toward what
you want or away from what you don't is one of the concepts. So is
possibility vs. necessity. It starts with a test that places you in
the ranges of Extrovert vs. Introvert, Sensor vs. Intuitor, etc.
which I found out later is a standard Meyers-Briggs personality test.
At one time, I found that I didn't have enough variety in my day to
test each one of these out, one per day, as he suggested. I just
didn't encounter enough of each one of these in any given day. That
may have changed enough for me to go back to working with these, but
that's been my challenge with them.

--- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, Sam Rau <sam.rau@...>
wrote:
>
> I'm not familiar with the program you're talking about, although it
sounds like something from this course. What I'm talking about is a
twelve lesson course with a lesson every two weeks which describes
how we create our internal map of reality; this is what shapes our
experience of life. I'd be really interested in hearing more about
these filters, as they sound similar to metaprograms which are
discussed in the course. For instance you might watch yourself using
the meta program of moving toward vs. away, or notice when you're
focusing on necessity or possability. It is a lot of work to watch
what you're doing inside your head at first but with time it becomes
easier. For instance I felt that I had this stuff figured out pretty
well, and then something happened and I ended up looking at things
differently; I can't explain it any better than that, and I'm really
not doing any of this any justice. I find that you can go as deeply
as you want with this stuff, and if you're like me you'll not get to
the end. If you did, it wouldn't be fun anymore because there
wouldn't be any surprise.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Laurence Baker
> To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 6:02 PM
> Subject: [SocialFitnessForum] Re: Relaxation Techniques
>
>
> I also have on of the internal map of reality expander series -
the
> conscious filter builder. I thought it was really interesting,
but I
> can't say I've been able to do much with it. He recommends trying
one
> of these filters out each day, but with a lot of these, in a
given
> day, I might not have much opportunity to observe the filter I've
> chosen for that day. When I finally do, I'm figuring that I
probably
> just don't recognize it. I think because there's nothing for me
to
> really sink my teeth into there, I've lost interest. Any
suggestions?
> Which ones would you recommend?
>
> --- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, Sam Rau <sam.rau@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I think that you're definitely on the right track here. I've
found
> that it's easier to accomplish something when I'm in the right
> state. For example it's helpful for me to put myself in a relaxed
> state if I'm in a social situation because I feel that things
flow
> better. I've also found it helpful to learn to be motivated when
> that's important, like when learning something for example, or
> sometimes it helps me to bring myself up when I'm feeling down
about
> something. Of course this is much easier said than done, and it
> takes some training to learn to do this. I also find it
interesting
> that you, without (to my knowledge) being trained to do this,
have
> started on your own discoveries of finding what works for you;
this
> is the best way of finding out how to do this. Keep up the good
work.
> >
> > I've found that meditation is very beneficial in working with
these
> types of things. Meditation helps to calm the mind and slow
things
> down, making it easier to observe what's going on and make
changes if
> we wish to. For example when you're feeling anxious in a social
> situation it's often overwelming and it seems as if it's not in
your
> control. However I've noticed that after meditating for a little
> while now (about a year or so) that things are beginning to slow
down
> and I can have a choice as to what I do inside; I might still
feel
> anxious, but I can step back and tell myself "this isn't serving
me
> right now, and if I were to turn this off the whole problem would
go
> away" and regain control of things. It's not right to say that I
> have control of everything, but I am learning to have control of
how
> I focus my mind (most people are running on automatic with their
> minds giving them results seemingly without any input on their
part)
> which I believe to be the key to everything else.
> >
> > I've been involved with Centerpointe Research Institute for
some
> time now and I think that they're an excceptional company. They
have
> a meditation program which, while I won't get into the details
> (unless someone wants me to) here, produces more rapid and long-
> lasting change than any other similar product on the market. I
also
> appreciate the fact that they offer a whole bunch of free
information
> on their products, so that you can make an informed decision, and
> they have great guarantees so that there's no obligation to try
> anything. There's a ton of information on their website, and I'd
> highly recomend checking it out. I think that a lot of social
> problems can be "solved" by using this technology, but I'd much
> rather you become aware of this yourself. Go check it out at
> http://www.centerpointe.com and get the free demo cd they offer;
> there's no obligation and if it might help you out you should
> consider it your duty to at least look at it.
> >
> > As well as the meditation program, Centerpointe offers what's
> called the internal map of reality expander. This course goes
into
> what we were talking about with the focusing of the mind, and
shows
> you how to actually go inside your own head (like you did with
the
> exercizes you outlined) and figure out how it works and how to
change
> it if you're getting results you don't want. There is a free
> information website that I'd highly recomend you check out. This
> program has shown me to produce results that I couldn't have even
> imagined before; I think it's interesting that this program has
shown
> me how to produce results, rather than telling me how to produce
> results. At any rate, check out the free site at
> http://www.centerpointe.com/life/preview and let me know what you
> think. This definitely gives you information how to get out of
the
> world of suffering, and if you're one of those people who
complains a
> lot then this is for you; in particular the people who
say "nothing
> ever works for me". Please give comments here as I'm interested
to
> hear feedback on how this works for you.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: mthig17
> > To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 8:54 PM
> > Subject: [SocialFitnessForum] Relaxation Techniques
> >
> >
> > Hey all,
> >
> > I just wanted to put it out there that I have really found that
> > focusing on relaxation during social interaction helps me not
> focus so
> > much on myself and more on the actual conversation. I think
it's
> > amazing how much the mind really has to do with our actions,
and
> I've
> > noticed that when I'm able to both relax my mind and think
> positively I
> > can do pretty well with interaction. I've found that simply
> repeating
> > in my mind the word "relax" and really trying to remember an
> experience
> > when I was totally relaxed socially helps me reinact that
> behavior with
> > whoever I'm talking to. I'm not usually one to go for abstract
> ideas
> > such as these as a means of making real change, but I
definitely
> think
> > meditation and maybe some other techniques can really help. I'm
> just
> > wondering does anyone else have any type of experience with
> meditation
> > and is there a certain type that they fnd very helpful or any
> other
> > exercises with the mind? Thanks and good luck to everybody!
> > P.S. Does anyone have any suggestions about making
conversation,
> I
> > think this is my weakest social skill.
> >
> > Meisha
> >
>

Yes, that's actually the lesson I'm talking about. Moving toward what
you want or away from what you don't is one of the concepts. So is
possibility vs. necessity. It starts with a test that places you in
the ranges of Extrovert vs. Introvert, Sensor vs. Intuitor, etc.
which I found out later is a standard Meyers-Briggs personality test.
At one time, I found that I didn't have enough variety in my day to
test each one of these out, one per day, as he suggested. I just
didn't encounter enough of each one of these in any given day. That
may have changed enough for me to go back to working with these, but
that's been my challenge with them.

--- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, Sam Rau <sam.rau@...>
wrote:
>
> I'm not familiar with the program you're talking about, although it
sounds like something from this course.  What I'm talking about is a
twelve lesson course with a lesson every two weeks which describes
how we create our internal map of reality; this is what shapes our
experience of life.  I'd be really interested in hearing more about
these filters, as they sound similar to metaprograms which are
discussed in the course.  For instance you might watch yourself using
the meta program of moving toward vs. away, or notice when you're
focusing on necessity or possability.  It is a lot of work to watch
what you're doing inside your head at first but with time it becomes
easier.  For instance I felt that I had this stuff figured out pretty
well, and then something happened and I ended up looking at things
differently; I can't explain it any better than that, and I'm really
not doing any of this any justice.  I find that you can go as deeply
as you want with this stuff, and if you're like me you'll not get to
the end.  If you did, it wouldn't be fun anymore because there
wouldn't be any surprise.
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Laurence Baker
>   To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 6:02 PM
>   Subject: [SocialFitnessForum] Re: Relaxation Techniques
>
>
>   I also have on of the internal map of reality expander series -
the
>   conscious filter builder. I thought it was really interesting,
but I
>   can't say I've been able to do much with it. He recommends trying
one
>   of these filters out each day, but with a lot of these, in a
given
>   day, I might not have much opportunity to observe the filter I've
>   chosen for that day. When I finally do, I'm figuring that I
probably
>   just don't recognize it. I think because there's nothing for me
to
>   really sink my teeth into there, I've lost interest. Any
suggestions?
>   Which ones would you recommend?
>
>   --- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, Sam Rau <sam.rau@>
>   wrote:
>   >
>   > I think that you're definitely on the right track here. I've
found
>   that it's easier to accomplish something when I'm in the right
>   state. For example it's helpful for me to put myself in a relaxed
>   state if I'm in a social situation because I feel that things
flow
>   better. I've also found it helpful to learn to be motivated when
>   that's important, like when learning something for example, or
>   sometimes it helps me to bring myself up when I'm feeling down
about
>   something. Of course this is much easier said than done, and it
>   takes some training to learn to do this. I also find it
interesting
>   that you, without (to my knowledge) being trained to do this,
have
>   started on your own discoveries of finding what works for you;
this
>   is the best way of finding out how to do this. Keep up the good
work.
>   >
>   > I've found that meditation is very beneficial in working with
these
>   types of things. Meditation helps to calm the mind and slow
things
>   down, making it easier to observe what's going on and make
changes if
>   we wish to. For example when you're feeling anxious in a social
>   situation it's often overwelming and it seems as if it's not in
your
>   control. However I've noticed that after meditating for a little
>   while now (about a year or so) that things are beginning to slow
down
>   and I can have a choice as to what I do inside; I might still
feel
>   anxious, but I can step back and tell myself "this isn't serving
me
>   right now, and if I were to turn this off the whole problem would
go
>   away" and regain control of things. It's not right to say that I
>   have control of everything, but I am learning to have control of
how
>   I focus my mind (most people are running on automatic with their
>   minds giving them results seemingly without any input on their
part)
>   which I believe to be the key to everything else.
>   >
>   > I've been involved with Centerpointe Research Institute for
some
>   time now and I think that they're an excceptional company. They
have
>   a meditation program which, while I won't get into the details
>   (unless someone wants me to) here, produces more rapid and long-
>   lasting change than any other similar product on the market. I
also
>   appreciate the fact that they offer a whole bunch of free
information
>   on their products, so that you can make an informed decision, and
>   they have great guarantees so that there's no obligation to try
>   anything. There's a ton of information on their website, and I'd
>   highly recomend checking it out. I think that a lot of social
>   problems can be "solved" by using this technology, but I'd much
>   rather you become aware of this yourself. Go check it out at
>   http://www.centerpointe.com and get the free demo cd they offer;
>   there's no obligation and if it might help you out you should
>   consider it your duty to at least look at it.
>   >
>   > As well as the meditation program, Centerpointe offers what's
>   called the internal map of reality expander. This course goes
into
>   what we were talking about with the focusing of the mind, and
shows
>   you how to actually go inside your own head (like you did with
the
>   exercizes you outlined) and figure out how it works and how to
change
>   it if you're getting results you don't want. There is a free
>   information website that I'd highly recomend you check out. This
>   program has shown me to produce results that I couldn't have even
>   imagined before; I think it's interesting that this program has
shown
>   me how to produce results, rather than telling me how to produce
>   results. At any rate, check out the free site at
>   http://www.centerpointe.com/life/preview and let me know what you
>   think. This definitely gives you information how to get out of
the
>   world of suffering, and if you're one of those people who
complains a
>   lot then this is for you; in particular the people who
say "nothing
>   ever works for me". Please give comments here as I'm interested
to
>   hear feedback on how this works for you.
>   > ----- Original Message -----
>   > From: mthig17
>   > To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
>   > Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 8:54 PM
>   > Subject: [SocialFitnessForum] Relaxation Techniques
>   >
>   >
>   > Hey all,
>   >
>   > I just wanted to put it out there that I have really found that
>   > focusing on relaxation during social interaction helps me not
>   focus so
>   > much on myself and more on the actual conversation. I think
it's
>   > amazing how much the mind really has to do with our actions,
and
>   I've
>   > noticed that when I'm able to both relax my mind and think
>   positively I
>   > can do pretty well with interaction. I've found that simply
>   repeating
>   > in my mind the word "relax" and really trying to remember an
>   experience
>   > when I was totally relaxed socially helps me reinact that
>   behavior with
>   > whoever I'm talking to. I'm not usually one to go for abstract
>   ideas
>   > such as these as a means of making real change, but I
definitely
>   think
>   > meditation and maybe some other techniques can really help. I'm
>   just
>   > wondering does anyone else have any type of experience with
>   meditation
>   > and is there a certain type that they fnd very helpful or any
>   other
>   > exercises with the mind? Thanks and good luck to everybody!
>   > P.S. Does anyone have any suggestions about making
conversation,
>   I
>   > think this is my weakest social skill.
>   >
>   > Meisha
>   >
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Laurence Baker

To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 6:02 PM

Subject: [SocialFitnessForum] Re: Relaxation Techniques

I also have on of the internal map of reality expander series - the
conscious filter builder. I thought it was really interesting, but I
can't say I've been able to do much with it. He recommends trying one
of these filters out each day, but with a lot of these, in a given
day, I might not have much opportunity to observe the filter I've
chosen for that day. When I finally do, I'm figuring that I probably
just don't recognize it. I think because there's nothing for me to
really sink my teeth into there, I've lost interest. Any suggestions?
Which ones would you recommend?

--- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, Sam Rau <sam.rau@...>
wrote:
>
> I think that you're definitely on the right track here. I've found
that it's easier to accomplish something when I'm in the right
state. For example it's helpful for me to put myself in a relaxed
state if I'm in a social situation because I feel that things flow
better. I've also found it helpful to learn to be motivated when
that's important, like when learning something for example, or
sometimes it helps me to bring myself up when I'm feeling down about
something. Of course this is much easier said than done, and it
takes some training to learn to do this. I also find it interesting
that you, without (to my knowledge) being trained to do this, have
started on your own discoveries of finding what works for you; this
is the best way of finding out how to do this. Keep up the good work.
>
> I've found that meditation is very beneficial in working with these
types of things. Meditation helps to calm the mind and slow things
down, making it easier to observe what's going on and make changes if
we wish to. For example when you're feeling anxious in a social
situation it's often overwelming and it seems as if it's not in your
control. However I've noticed that after meditating for a little
while now (about a year or so) that things are beginning to slow down
and I can have a choice as to what I do inside; I might still feel
anxious, but I can step back and tell myself "this isn't serving me
right now, and if I were to turn this off the whole problem would go
away" and regain control of things. It's not right to say that I
have control of everything, but I am learning to have control of how
I focus my mind (most people are running on automatic with their
minds giving them results seemingly without any input on their part)
which I believe to be the key to everything else.
>
> I've been involved with Centerpointe Research Institute for some
time now and I think that they're an excceptional company. They have
a meditation program which, while I won't get into the details
(unless someone wants me to) here, produces more rapid and long-
lasting change than any other similar product on the market. I also
appreciate the fact that they offer a whole bunch of free information
on their products, so that you can make an informed decision, and
they have great guarantees so that there's no obligation to try
anything. There's a ton of information on their website, and I'd
highly recomend checking it out. I think that a lot of social
problems can be "solved" by using this technology, but I'd much
rather you become aware of this yourself. Go check it out at
http://www.centerpointe.com and get the free demo cd they offer;
there's no obligation and if it might help you out you should
consider it your duty to at least look at it.
>
> As well as the meditation program, Centerpointe offers what's
called the internal map of reality expander. This course goes into
what we were talking about with the focusing of the mind, and shows
you how to actually go inside your own head (like you did with the
exercizes you outlined) and figure out how it works and how to change
it if you're getting results you don't want. There is a free
information website that I'd highly recomend you check out. This
program has shown me to produce results that I couldn't have even
imagined before; I think it's interesting that this program has shown
me how to produce results, rather than telling me how to produce
results. At any rate, check out the free site at
http://www.centerpointe.com/life/preview and let me know what you
think. This definitely gives you information how to get out of the
world of suffering, and if you're one of those people who complains a
lot then this is for you; in particular the people who say "nothing
ever works for me". Please give comments here as I'm interested to
hear feedback on how this works for you.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: mthig17
> To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 8:54 PM
> Subject: [SocialFitnessForum] Relaxation Techniques
>
>
> Hey all,
>
> I just wanted to put it out there that I have really found that
> focusing on relaxation during social interaction helps me not
focus so
> much on myself and more on the actual conversation. I think it's
> amazing how much the mind really has to do with our actions, and
I've
> noticed that when I'm able to both relax my mind and think
positively I
> can do pretty well with interaction. I've found that simply
repeating
> in my mind the word "relax" and really trying to remember an
experience
> when I was totally relaxed socially helps me reinact that
behavior with
> whoever I'm talking to. I'm not usually one to go for abstract
ideas
> such as these as a means of making real change, but I definitely
think
> meditation and maybe some other techniques can really help. I'm
just
> wondering does anyone else have any type of experience with
meditation
> and is there a certain type that they fnd very helpful or any
other
> exercises with the mind? Thanks and good luck to everybody!
> P.S. Does anyone have any suggestions about making conversation,
I
> think this is my weakest social skill.
>
> Meisha
>

----- Original Message -----

From: mthig17

To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 1:48 PM

Subject: [SocialFitnessForum] Re: Making conversation

--- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, Sam Rau <sam.rau@...>
wrote:

Okay...so I think we've all just COMPLETELY missed the point! I was
looking for tips on making conversation or keeping them going. Maybe
I confused someone but I was saying that I know that I smile when I'm
nervous...it's a habit that I realized I picked up. There is
absolutely nothing wrong with smiling and being happy...it's just
when I smile out of being nervous and not knowing what else to do, I
realized that it makes it hard for other people to read me and to see
my real feelings because I'm just so used to smiling when something
makes me uncomfortable. I was basically saying that smiling all the
time to cover up my true feelings in uncomfortable situations makes
it hard for me to be geniune and therefore to relax and let others
see the real me. And another thing....I definitely would never assume
that anyone in this group is a moron and I would never patronize
anybody. We're all supposedly in teh same boat so why would I come in
here insulting people? I was just saying it's possible to make
friends and stuff becuase I know that when I first began trying to do
something about my extreme shyness, a lot of people told me that it
was "just how I was" and that I shouldn't worry about it because I
would never change. Well, when you're shy and you're suffereing
everyday with little things like talking to cashiers at teh grocery
store or making friends, it is extrememly painful to hear that you'll
be like that all your life. I am really glad that I now know that
difference between that being "who I am" and letting it define me. I
am proud of who I am. I love the fact that I am not that loud,
boistrous person who always wants the attention and ccan eend up
being REALLY annoying...I realize the gifts that come with my
personality...and this is different for everybody, everybody has to
come to the realization that they CAN be whoever they want to be, but
they may not feel NATURAL trying to be soemthing that they're not.
But I realize that just because I have accepted and love who I am,
that does not mean that I have to be unhappy and live a life that I
don't want to. I am working on socializing because I feel that
realtionships and the people that you really love are the only things
that really matter in life, so I want to be able to build
realtionships with people and connect with others. I don't need to be
friends with everybody, but I would like the friendships that I have
to be meaningfull. That's why I'm working on my shyness. And I know
that sometimes when I have a bad day and I just feel like an idiot
talking to people, I wonder if I'll ever be able to relax enough with
others to make real friends. So when i realize that I can do, I just
want to come and share it with the group because I am pretty sure
that at least one person feels that exact same way. So sorry about my
rant...but i just was trying to help someone out because I know how
it feels...
>
> Why is smiling tooo much a bit kreepy? What's too much, anyway? I
once had a huge grin on my face and my friend Matt started laughing
at me, because it was so odd that I would have a smile like that (I
guess). When I asked him what he was laughing about and he said that
it was my smile that he found funny, I asked him "what's wrong with
that" and he couldn't really come up with an answer. I'm not quite
sure what the point was here, however I think that this had more to
do with him rather than anything I was doing; of course there were
other people there, and I often find that he tends to find things
that I do (or don't do) more funny when others are present... Go
figure.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: jimmymaniac
> To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 3:17 AM
> Subject: [SocialFitnessForum] Re: Making conversation
>
>
> Also smiling too much is CREEPY! YA CREEP... j/k
> its kinda offensive when you said that "now you know that its
> possible" wtf?? we're not morons, pardon my rant lol
> --- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, "mthig17" <mthig17@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hey all,
> >
> > I was wondering what people's thought are on making
conversation. I
> > have asked questions about this before, but they have been
hidden
> in
> > other questions so perhaps this is why I really haven't gotten
much
> > feedback yet. My main problem is that when I'm with people,
even
> > people who I am not nervous with at all like my close
relatives, I
> > have problems thinking of what to say. I've found a lot of
> solutions
> > for this problem, but I feel that I am not as good as I shoudl
be
> at
> > this point. At first I thought I needed to relax more, and that
> > really helps, but even relaxing doesn't just "provide" things
to
> say.
> > Lately my thoughts have gone to I am not in touch with my
interests
> > and hobbies, therefore I haave nothing to talk about to other
> people
> > in order to find common ground. I've also thought that my habit
of
> > smiling all the time when I'm nervous makes people feel
> uncomfortable
> > around me because they feel like I don't show my real feelings,
so
> > they shouldn't show me their's either, and then they feel the
need
> to
> > only be nice to me and we never get to a point of trust where
we
> can
> > just be ourselves. I am past the point of wanting to be the
life of
> > the party, because I haev excepted teh fact that that's not who
I
> am
> > and I actually like the fact that I have other qualities that
> extreme
> > extroverts do not exhibit. however, I realized that I am not
> > necessarily enjoyable to people, and I think I need to be more
> > playful in life. So, to get to the point, the things I have
learned
> > about making conversations and connections with people are:
> > 1. Relax
> > 2. Know your interests and at least some general interests so
that
> > you can be knowledgable about interests of others.
> > 3. SHOW YOUR TRUE FEELINGS so that people feel like they can
relate
> > to you and that you are not just a robot.
> > 4. Be playful (don't TRY to be funny, just don't be so worried
> about
> > what others think and HAVE FUN)
> > 5. Realize that no one talks ALL the time, silences are okay.
> > 6. Realize that other people just let convos come about, I
found
> that
> > I always bring up the same topics because they are things that
I
> know
> > that the other person can talk to me about, but that gets
boring.
> > Just observe your surroundings, know your interests and be able
to
> > speak about them, and do things so that you can relate stories
> about
> > topics that might come up.
> > 7. Observe other people's conversations and the topics that
they
> > strat talking about (without being a total eavesdropper) so
that
> you
> > can mimic that with your own twist.
> >
> > So basicly I just wanted to put my findings out there and I
really
> > hope that this time some of the people who have said that they
have
> > improved with their shyness can offer tips as to how they make
> > conversation. you see, this is coming from the same girl who
wrote
> > the message about not being ablt to make friends in college,
and
> now
> > I'm actually making friends (SEE, WE CAN DO IT!) but not I feel
> like
> > I might not be able to hold on to them if I can't find anything
to
> > talk about or if they feel that we have no connections because
we
> > can't converse. Thanks everyone I look forward to eharing from
you!
> >
> > Mthig
> > 5.
> >
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Laurence Baker

To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 5:38 PM

Subject: [SocialFitnessForum] Re: Relaxation Techniques

I do have experience with meditation. I've been using a program
called Holosync for about four years. It allows unskilled meditators
to slip into deep meditative states - actually deeper than even the
most skilled of meditators can go. I love it. It's a slow process
(much faster than ordinary meditation), but I generally feel better
from moment to moment, I worry much less, get angry about very
little, I'm more in the now, etc. Basically, I'm happier, and I have
a better attitude.

Some of this could also be attributed to my interest in personal
growth and my continued efforts to improve myself, but there's a
synergy there. Maybe what it does more than anything else is to help
accelerate whatever it is you're working towards. Not only does it do
a lot for your brain in terms of neuroplasticity or creating new
connections, but I think you're a lot less likely to spend as much
time getting caught up in the habitual patterns and ruts that tend to
sabatoge your efforts. I think it's very powerful in this way. I
chewed tobacco for years, but after a few months with Holosync, it
was easy (relatively easy) to quit.

You still have to work on whatever it is you're trying to accomplish,
but I think it makes things both easier and more enjoyable.

It's based on binaural beat technology. You can look that up in
Wikipedia. You can find it at www.centerpointe.com. I highly
recommend it to anyone, period; but especially if you're trying to
overcome a major stumbling block in your life - to get out of your
own way in making progress. Grappling with the kinds of issues that
get tossed around in this forum definately qualifies.

Ted

--- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, "mthig17" <mthig17@...>
wrote:
>
> Hey all,
>
> I just wanted to put it out there that I have really found that
> focusing on relaxation during social interaction helps me not focus
so
> much on myself and more on the actual conversation. I think it's
> amazing how much the mind really has to do with our actions, and
I've
> noticed that when I'm able to both relax my mind and think
positively I
> can do pretty well with interaction. I've found that simply
repeating
> in my mind the word "relax" and really trying to remember an
experience
> when I was totally relaxed socially helps me reinact that behavior
with
> whoever I'm talking to. I'm not usually one to go for abstract
ideas
> such as these as a means of making real change, but I definitely
think
> meditation and maybe some other techniques can really help. I'm
just
> wondering does anyone else have any type of experience with
meditation
> and is there a certain type that they fnd very helpful or any other
> exercises with the mind? Thanks and good luck to everybody!
> P.S. Does anyone have any suggestions about making conversation, I
> think this is my weakest social skill.
>
> Meisha
>

I also have on of the internal map of reality expander series - the
conscious filter builder. I thought it was really interesting, but I
can't say I've been able to do much with it. He recommends trying one
of these filters out each day, but with a lot of these, in a given
day, I might not have much opportunity to observe the filter I've
chosen for that day. When I finally do, I'm figuring that I probably
just don't recognize it. I think because there's nothing for me to
really sink my teeth into there, I've lost interest. Any suggestions?
Which ones would you recommend?

--- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, Sam Rau <sam.rau@...>
wrote:
>
> I think that you're definitely on the right track here.  I've found
that it's easier to accomplish something when I'm in the right
state.  For example it's helpful for me to put myself in a relaxed
state if I'm in a social situation because I feel that things flow
better.  I've also found it helpful to learn to be motivated when
that's important, like when learning something for example, or
sometimes it helps me to bring myself up when I'm feeling down about
something.  Of course this is much easier said than done, and it
takes some training to learn to do this.  I also find it interesting
that you, without (to my knowledge) being trained to do this, have
started on your own discoveries of finding what works for you; this
is the best way of finding out how to do this.  Keep up the good work.
>
> I've found that meditation is very beneficial in working with these
types of things.  Meditation helps to calm the mind and slow things
down, making it easier to observe what's going on and make changes if
we wish to.  For example when you're feeling anxious in a social
situation it's often overwelming and it seems as if it's not in your
control.  However I've noticed that after meditating for a little
while now (about a year or so) that things are beginning to slow down
and I can have a choice as to what I do inside; I might still feel
anxious, but I can step back and tell myself "this isn't serving me
right now, and if I were to turn this off the whole problem would go
away" and regain control of things.  It's not right to say that I
have control of everything, but I am learning to have control of how
I focus my mind (most people are running on automatic with their
minds giving them results seemingly without any input on their part)
which I believe to be the key to everything else.
>
> I've been involved with Centerpointe Research Institute for some
time now and I think that they're an excceptional company.  They have
a meditation program which, while I won't get into the details
(unless someone wants me to) here, produces more rapid and long-
lasting change than any other similar product on the market.  I also
appreciate the fact that they offer a whole bunch of free information
on their products, so that you can make an informed decision, and
they have great guarantees so that there's no obligation to try
anything.  There's a ton of information on their website, and I'd
highly recomend checking it out.  I think that a lot of social
problems can be "solved" by using this technology, but I'd much
rather you become aware of this yourself.  Go check it out at
http://www.centerpointe.com and get the free demo cd they offer;
there's no obligation and if it might help you out you should
consider it your duty to at least look at it.
>
> As well as the meditation program, Centerpointe offers what's
called the internal map of reality expander.  This course goes into
what we were talking about with the focusing of the mind, and shows
you how to actually go inside your own head (like you did with the
exercizes you outlined) and figure out how it works and how to change
it if you're getting results you don't want.  There is a free
information website that I'd highly recomend you check out.  This
program has shown me to produce results that I couldn't have even
imagined before; I think it's interesting that this program has shown
me how to produce results, rather than telling me how to produce
results.  At any rate, check out the free site at
http://www.centerpointe.com/life/preview and let me know what you
think.  This definitely gives you information how to get out of the
world of suffering, and if you're one of those people who complains a
lot then this is for you; in particular the people who say "nothing
ever works for me".  Please give comments here as I'm interested to
hear feedback on how this works for you.
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: mthig17
>   To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 8:54 PM
>   Subject: [SocialFitnessForum] Relaxation Techniques
>
>
>   Hey all,
>
>   I just wanted to put it out there that I have really found that
>   focusing on relaxation during social interaction helps me not
focus so
>   much on myself and more on the actual conversation. I think it's
>   amazing how much the mind really has to do with our actions, and
I've
>   noticed that when I'm able to both relax my mind and think
positively I
>   can do pretty well with interaction. I've found that simply
repeating
>   in my mind the word "relax" and really trying to remember an
experience
>   when I was totally relaxed socially helps me reinact that
behavior with
>   whoever I'm talking to. I'm not usually one to go for abstract
ideas
>   such as these as a means of making real change, but I definitely
think
>   meditation and maybe some other techniques can really help. I'm
just
>   wondering does anyone else have any type of experience with
meditation
>   and is there a certain type that they fnd very helpful or any
other
>   exercises with the mind? Thanks and good luck to everybody!
>   P.S. Does anyone have any suggestions about making conversation,
I
>   think this is my weakest social skill.
>
>   Meisha
>

I like your idea of the "I" perspective. There's an infinite amount
of conversational material available there, but I sometimes have to
remind myself that my subjective experience is as valid as anything
as a topic of conversation or an off-hand comment.

--- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, Bob Mayo <soc-yg@...>
wrote:
>
> Thanks for the relaxaton tips.
>
> Regarding conversations, there are a number of "systems" for
learning to be
> good at that.
>
> A simple way to get started is to pick one skill and practice it
until it is a
> habit, and then move on to another one.  The ones I like best are:
>
> 1) ask open-ended questions
>   (bad: "did you have a good day", good: "how was your day")
>
> 2) use the "I" perspective, not the "objective" perspective
>   (bad: "that shirt is cool", good: "I love that shirt")
>
> 3) look for things you appreciate in others and mention them
>
> 4) pick 3 topics you enjoy and mention one of them in each
conversation
>
> --Bob
>
>
>
> --- mthig17 <mthig17@...> wrote:
>
> > Hey all,
> >
> > I just wanted to put it out there that I have really found that
> > focusing on relaxation during social interaction helps me not
focus so
> > much on myself and more on the actual conversation. I think it's
> > amazing how much the mind really has to do with our actions, and
I've
> > noticed that when I'm able to both relax my mind and think
positively I
> > can do pretty well with interaction. I've found that simply
repeating
> > in my mind the word "relax" and really trying to remember an
experience
> > when I was totally relaxed socially helps me reinact that
behavior with
> > whoever I'm talking to. I'm not usually one to go for abstract
ideas
> > such as these as a means of making real change, but I definitely
think
> > meditation and maybe some other techniques can really help. I'm
just
> > wondering does anyone else have any type of experience with
meditation
> > and is there a certain type that they fnd very helpful or any
other
> > exercises with the mind? Thanks and good luck to everybody!
> > P.S. Does anyone have any suggestions about making conversation,
I
> > think this is my weakest social skill.
> >
> > Meisha
> >
> >
>

I do have experience with meditation. I've been using a program
called Holosync for about four years. It allows unskilled meditators
to slip into deep meditative states - actually deeper than even the
most skilled of meditators can go. I love it. It's a slow process
(much faster than ordinary meditation), but I generally feel better
from moment to moment, I worry much less, get angry about very
little, I'm more in the now, etc. Basically, I'm happier, and I have
a better attitude.

Some of this could also be attributed to my interest in personal
growth and my continued efforts to improve myself, but there's a
synergy there. Maybe what it does more than anything else is to help
accelerate whatever it is you're working towards. Not only does it do
a lot for your brain in terms of neuroplasticity or creating new
connections, but I think you're a lot less likely to spend as much
time getting caught up in the habitual patterns and ruts that tend to
sabatoge your efforts. I think it's very powerful in this way. I
chewed tobacco for years, but after a few months with Holosync, it
was easy (relatively easy) to quit.

You still have to work on whatever it is you're trying to accomplish,
but I think it makes things both easier and more enjoyable.

It's based on binaural beat technology. You can look that up in
Wikipedia. You can find it at www.centerpointe.com. I highly
recommend it to anyone, period; but especially if you're trying to
overcome a major stumbling block in your life - to get out of your
own way in making progress. Grappling with the kinds of issues that
get tossed around in this forum definately qualifies.

Ted


--- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, "mthig17" <mthig17@...>
wrote:
>
> Hey all,
>
> I just wanted to put it out there that I have really found that
> focusing on relaxation during social interaction helps me not focus
so
> much on myself and more on the actual conversation. I think it's
> amazing how much the mind really has to do with our actions, and
I've
> noticed that when I'm able to both relax my mind and think
positively I
> can do pretty well with interaction. I've found that simply
repeating
> in my mind the word "relax" and really trying to remember an
experience
> when I was totally relaxed socially helps me reinact that behavior
with
> whoever I'm talking to. I'm not usually one to go for abstract
ideas
> such as these as a means of making real change, but I definitely
think
> meditation and maybe some other techniques can really help. I'm
just
> wondering does anyone else have any type of experience with
meditation
> and is there a certain type that they fnd very helpful or any other
> exercises with the mind? Thanks and good luck to everybody!
> P.S. Does anyone have any suggestions about making conversation, I
> think this is my weakest social skill.
>
> Meisha
>

--- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, Sam Rau <sam.rau@...>
wrote:

Okay...so I think we've all just COMPLETELY missed the point! I was
looking for tips on making conversation or keeping them going. Maybe
I confused someone but I was saying that I know that I smile when I'm
nervous...it's a habit that I realized I picked up. There is
absolutely nothing wrong with smiling and being happy...it's just
when I smile out of being nervous and not knowing what else to do, I
realized that it makes it hard for other people to read me and to see
my real feelings because I'm just so used to smiling when something
makes me uncomfortable. I was basically saying that smiling all the
time to cover up my true feelings in uncomfortable situations makes
it hard for me to be geniune and therefore to relax and let others
see the real me. And another thing....I definitely would never assume
that anyone in this group is a moron and I would never patronize
anybody. We're all supposedly in teh same boat so why would I come in
here insulting people? I was just saying it's possible to make
friends and stuff becuase I know that when I first began trying to do
something about my extreme shyness, a lot of people told me that it
was "just how I was" and that I shouldn't worry about it because I
would never change. Well, when you're shy and you're suffereing
everyday with little things like talking to cashiers at teh grocery
store or making friends, it is extrememly painful to hear that you'll
be like that all your life. I am really glad that I now know that
difference between that being "who I am" and letting it define me. I
am proud of who I am. I love the fact that I am not that loud,
boistrous person who always wants the attention and ccan eend up
being REALLY annoying...I realize the gifts that come with my
personality...and this is different for everybody, everybody has to
come to the realization that they CAN be whoever they want to be, but
they may not feel NATURAL trying to be soemthing that they're not.
But I realize that just because I have accepted and love who I am,
that does not mean that I have to be unhappy and live a life that I
don't want to. I am working on socializing because I feel that
realtionships and the people that you really love are the only things
that really matter in life, so I want to be able to build
realtionships with people and connect with others. I don't need to be
friends with everybody, but I would like the friendships that I have
to be meaningfull. That's why I'm working on my shyness. And I know
that sometimes when I have a bad day and I just feel like an idiot
talking to people, I wonder if I'll ever be able to relax enough with
others to make real friends. So when i realize that I can do, I just
want to come and share it with the group because I am pretty sure
that at least one person feels that exact same way. So sorry about my
rant...but i just was trying to help someone out because I know how
it feels...
>
> Why is smiling tooo much a bit kreepy?  What's too much, anyway?  I
once had a huge grin on my face and my friend Matt started laughing
at me, because it was so odd that I would have a smile like that (I
guess).  When I asked him what he was laughing about and he said that
it was my smile that he found funny, I asked him "what's wrong with
that" and he couldn't really come up with an answer.  I'm not quite
sure what the point was here, however I think that this had more to
do with him rather than anything I was doing; of course there were
other people there, and I often find that he tends to find things
that I do (or don't do) more funny when others are present...  Go
figure.
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: jimmymaniac
>   To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 3:17 AM
>   Subject: [SocialFitnessForum] Re: Making conversation
>
>
>   Also smiling too much is CREEPY! YA CREEP... j/k
>   its kinda offensive when you said that "now you know that its
>   possible" wtf?? we're not morons, pardon my rant lol
>   --- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, "mthig17" <mthig17@>
>   wrote:
>   >
>   > Hey all,
>   >
>   > I was wondering what people's thought are on making
conversation. I
>   > have asked questions about this before, but they have been
hidden
>   in
>   > other questions so perhaps this is why I really haven't gotten
much
>   > feedback yet. My main problem is that when I'm with people,
even
>   > people who I am not nervous with at all like my close
relatives, I
>   > have problems thinking of what to say. I've found a lot of
>   solutions
>   > for this problem, but I feel that I am not as good as I shoudl
be
>   at
>   > this point. At first I thought I needed to relax more, and that
>   > really helps, but even relaxing doesn't just "provide" things
to
>   say.
>   > Lately my thoughts have gone to I am not in touch with my
interests
>   > and hobbies, therefore I haave nothing to talk about to other
>   people
>   > in order to find common ground. I've also thought that my habit
of
>   > smiling all the time when I'm nervous makes people feel
>   uncomfortable
>   > around me because they feel like I don't show my real feelings,
so
>   > they shouldn't show me their's either, and then they feel the
need
>   to
>   > only be nice to me and we never get to a point of trust where
we
>   can
>   > just be ourselves. I am past the point of wanting to be the
life of
>   > the party, because I haev excepted teh fact that that's not who
I
>   am
>   > and I actually like the fact that I have other qualities that
>   extreme
>   > extroverts do not exhibit. however, I realized that I am not
>   > necessarily enjoyable to people, and I think I need to be more
>   > playful in life. So, to get to the point, the things I have
learned
>   > about making conversations and connections with people are:
>   > 1. Relax
>   > 2. Know your interests and at least some general interests so
that
>   > you can be knowledgable about interests of others.
>   > 3. SHOW YOUR TRUE FEELINGS so that people feel like they can
relate
>   > to you and that you are not just a robot.
>   > 4. Be playful (don't TRY to be funny, just don't be so worried
>   about
>   > what others think and HAVE FUN)
>   > 5. Realize that no one talks ALL the time, silences are okay.
>   > 6. Realize that other people just let convos come about, I
found
>   that
>   > I always bring up the same topics because they are things that
I
>   know
>   > that the other person can talk to me about, but that gets
boring.
>   > Just observe your surroundings, know your interests and be able
to
>   > speak about them, and do things so that you can relate stories
>   about
>   > topics that might come up.
>   > 7. Observe other people's conversations and the topics that
they
>   > strat talking about (without being a total eavesdropper) so
that
>   you
>   > can mimic that with your own twist.
>   >
>   > So basicly I just wanted to put my findings out there and I
really
>   > hope that this time some of the people who have said that they
have
>   > improved with their shyness can offer tips as to how they make
>   > conversation. you see, this is coming from the same girl who
wrote
>   > the message about not being ablt to make friends in college,
and
>   now
>   > I'm actually making friends (SEE, WE CAN DO IT!) but not I feel
>   like
>   > I might not be able to hold on to them if I can't find anything
to
>   > talk about or if they feel that we have no connections because
we
>   > can't converse. Thanks everyone I look forward to eharing from
you!
>   >
>   > Mthig
>   > 5.
>   >
>

----- Original Message -----

From: jimmymaniac

To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 3:17 AM

Subject: [SocialFitnessForum] Re: Making conversation

Also smiling too much is CREEPY! YA CREEP... j/k
its kinda offensive when you said that "now you know that its
possible" wtf?? we're not morons, pardon my rant lol
--- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, "mthig17" <mthig17@...>
wrote:
>
> Hey all,
>
> I was wondering what people's thought are on making conversation. I
> have asked questions about this before, but they have been hidden
in
> other questions so perhaps this is why I really haven't gotten much
> feedback yet. My main problem is that when I'm with people, even
> people who I am not nervous with at all like my close relatives, I
> have problems thinking of what to say. I've found a lot of
solutions
> for this problem, but I feel that I am not as good as I shoudl be
at
> this point. At first I thought I needed to relax more, and that
> really helps, but even relaxing doesn't just "provide" things to
say.
> Lately my thoughts have gone to I am not in touch with my interests
> and hobbies, therefore I haave nothing to talk about to other
people
> in order to find common ground. I've also thought that my habit of
> smiling all the time when I'm nervous makes people feel
uncomfortable
> around me because they feel like I don't show my real feelings, so
> they shouldn't show me their's either, and then they feel the need
to
> only be nice to me and we never get to a point of trust where we
can
> just be ourselves. I am past the point of wanting to be the life of
> the party, because I haev excepted teh fact that that's not who I
am
> and I actually like the fact that I have other qualities that
extreme
> extroverts do not exhibit. however, I realized that I am not
> necessarily enjoyable to people, and I think I need to be more
> playful in life. So, to get to the point, the things I have learned
> about making conversations and connections with people are:
> 1. Relax
> 2. Know your interests and at least some general interests so that
> you can be knowledgable about interests of others.
> 3. SHOW YOUR TRUE FEELINGS so that people feel like they can relate
> to you and that you are not just a robot.
> 4. Be playful (don't TRY to be funny, just don't be so worried
about
> what others think and HAVE FUN)
> 5. Realize that no one talks ALL the time, silences are okay.
> 6. Realize that other people just let convos come about, I found
that
> I always bring up the same topics because they are things that I
know
> that the other person can talk to me about, but that gets boring.
> Just observe your surroundings, know your interests and be able to
> speak about them, and do things so that you can relate stories
about
> topics that might come up.
> 7. Observe other people's conversations and the topics that they
> strat talking about (without being a total eavesdropper) so that
you
> can mimic that with your own twist.
>
> So basicly I just wanted to put my findings out there and I really
> hope that this time some of the people who have said that they have
> improved with their shyness can offer tips as to how they make
> conversation. you see, this is coming from the same girl who wrote
> the message about not being ablt to make friends in college, and
now
> I'm actually making friends (SEE, WE CAN DO IT!) but not I feel
like
> I might not be able to hold on to them if I can't find anything to
> talk about or if they feel that we have no connections because we
> can't converse. Thanks everyone I look forward to eharing from you!
>
> Mthig
> 5.
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Simon

To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 2:39 PM

Subject: [SocialFitnessForum] Re: Hello everyone! A new member has arrived!

Thanks for the warm welcome Sam! I've been wanting to try and relate
my experiences with others so that I can help someone else out and
vice versa. Currently, though, university life is very stressful,
but I think I'll get over it and I can manage. I'm doing this not
only cause I want to, but because it will help me in the future with
getting a job that pays good and doing something that I have already
wanted to do.

Oh, and that's a great idea that you mentioned about how I could
write about my experience as a freshman here at GA State. It could
provide for some interesting insight as I am quite shy around public
places, for example.

Thanks a lot once again, and have a great day! I'll be back later!

- Simon

--- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, Sam Rau <sam.rau@...>
wrote:
>
> I'm glad to see your join our group here. I think that the more
people we can get to join, the more we can learn from each other.
Instead of you writing in here with what you need advice with, I'd
like to see you write in with success stories of how well you're
doing there at Georgia state. You may be meeting so many people that
you don't have time to write in here, which is good, but please keep
us posted. By the way you write I can tell you'll have no problem
finding friends. I always love to give advice--as you will probably
figure out if you stay on here long enough--but I like giving
encouragement even more.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Simon
> To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 1:20 AM
> Subject: [SocialFitnessForum] Hello everyone! A new member has
arrived!
>
>
> Hey there everybody, my name's Simon and I recently found this
group
> while searching for some advice on dealing with shyness online.
I'm
> currently going to Georgia State University in Atlanta, Georgia
as a
> freshman, along with my twin brother...and boy, what an
experience that
> is!
>
> Anyways, I'll be sharing with ya'll about my problems with
shyness
> later, since right now I'm very busy with college, but once I
have
> enough free time I'll be sure to let ya'll know so I can get some
> useful advice. For now, I just wanted to say hello and that it's
nice
> to hear that there are more shy people out there than me! I'm
really
> looking forward to everyone's advice and meeting new people!
>
> Thanks a lot and have a great day!
>
> - Simon
>

Thanks for the warm welcome Sam!  I've been wanting to try and relate
my experiences with others so that I can help someone else out and
vice versa.  Currently, though, university life is very stressful,
but I think I'll get over it and I can manage.  I'm doing this not
only cause I want to, but because it will help me in the future with
getting a job that pays good and doing something that I have already
wanted to do.

Oh, and that's a great idea that you mentioned about how I could
write about my experience as a freshman here at GA State.  It could
provide for some interesting insight as I am quite shy around public
places, for example.

Thanks a lot once again, and have a great day!  I'll be back later!

- Simon

--- In SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com, Sam Rau <sam.rau@...>
wrote:
>
> I'm glad to see your join our group here.  I think that the more
people we can get to join, the more we can learn from each other.
Instead of you writing in here with what you need advice with, I'd
like to see you write in with success stories of how well you're
doing there at Georgia state.  You may be meeting so many people that
you don't have time to write in here, which is good, but please keep
us posted.  By the way you write I can tell you'll have no problem
finding friends.  I always love to give advice--as you will probably
figure out if you stay on here long enough--but I like giving
encouragement even more.
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Simon
>   To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 1:20 AM
>   Subject: [SocialFitnessForum] Hello everyone! A new member has
arrived!
>
>
>   Hey there everybody, my name's Simon and I recently found this
group
>   while searching for some advice on dealing with shyness online.
I'm
>   currently going to Georgia State University in Atlanta, Georgia
as a
>   freshman, along with my twin brother...and boy, what an
experience that
>   is!
>
>   Anyways, I'll be sharing with ya'll about my problems with
shyness
>   later, since right now I'm very busy with college, but once I
have
>   enough free time I'll be sure to let ya'll know so I can get some
>   useful advice. For now, I just wanted to say hello and that it's
nice
>   to hear that there are more shy people out there than me! I'm
really
>   looking forward to everyone's advice and meeting new people!
>
>   Thanks a lot and have a great day!
>
>   - Simon
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Simon

To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 1:20 AM

Subject: [SocialFitnessForum] Hello everyone! A new member has arrived!

Hey there everybody, my name's Simon and I recently found this group
while searching for some advice on dealing with shyness online. I'm
currently going to Georgia State University in Atlanta, Georgia as a
freshman, along with my twin brother...and boy, what an experience that
is!

Anyways, I'll be sharing with ya'll about my problems with shyness
later, since right now I'm very busy with college, but once I have
enough free time I'll be sure to let ya'll know so I can get some
useful advice. For now, I just wanted to say hello and that it's nice
to hear that there are more shy people out there than me! I'm really
looking forward to everyone's advice and meeting new people!

Thanks a lot and have a great day!

- Simon

Hey there everybody, my name's Simon and I recently found this group
while searching for some advice on dealing with shyness online.  I'm
currently going to Georgia State University in Atlanta, Georgia as a
freshman, along with my twin brother...and boy, what an experience that
is!

Anyways, I'll be sharing with ya'll about my problems with shyness
later, since right now I'm very busy with college, but once I have
enough free time I'll be sure to let ya'll know so I can get some
useful advice.  For now, I just wanted to say hello and that it's nice
to hear that there are more shy people out there than me!  I'm really
looking forward to everyone's advice and meeting new people!

Thanks a lot and have a great day!

- Simon

----- Original Message -----

From: mthig17

To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 1:08 PM

Subject: [SocialFitnessForum] Making conversation

Hey all,

I was wondering what people's thought are on making conversation. I
have asked questions about this before, but they have been hidden in
other questions so perhaps this is why I really haven't gotten much
feedback yet. My main problem is that when I'm with people, even
people who I am not nervous with at all like my close relatives, I
have problems thinking of what to say. I've found a lot of solutions
for this problem, but I feel that I am not as good as I shoudl be at
this point. At first I thought I needed to relax more, and that
really helps, but even relaxing doesn't just "provide" things to say.
Lately my thoughts have gone to I am not in touch with my interests
and hobbies, therefore I haave nothing to talk about to other people
in order to find common ground. I've also thought that my habit of
smiling all the time when I'm nervous makes people feel uncomfortable
around me because they feel like I don't show my real feelings, so
they shouldn't show me their's either, and then they feel the need to
only be nice to me and we never get to a point of trust where we can
just be ourselves. I am past the point of wanting to be the life of
the party, because I haev excepted teh fact that that's not who I am
and I actually like the fact that I have other qualities that extreme
extroverts do not exhibit. however, I realized that I am not
necessarily enjoyable to people, and I think I need to be more
playful in life. So, to get to the point, the things I have learned
about making conversations and connections with people are:
1. Relax
2. Know your interests and at least some general interests so that
you can be knowledgable about interests of others.
3. SHOW YOUR TRUE FEELINGS so that people feel like they can relate
to you and that you are not just a robot.
4. Be playful (don't TRY to be funny, just don't be so worried about
what others think and HAVE FUN)
5. Realize that no one talks ALL the time, silences are okay.
6. Realize that other people just let convos come about, I found that
I always bring up the same topics because they are things that I know
that the other person can talk to me about, but that gets boring.
Just observe your surroundings, know your interests and be able to
speak about them, and do things so that you can relate stories about
topics that might come up.
7. Observe other people's conversations and the topics that they
strat talking about (without being a total eavesdropper) so that you
can mimic that with your own twist.

So basicly I just wanted to put my findings out there and I really
hope that this time some of the people who have said that they have
improved with their shyness can offer tips as to how they make
conversation. you see, this is coming from the same girl who wrote
the message about not being ablt to make friends in college, and now
I'm actually making friends (SEE, WE CAN DO IT!) but not I feel like
I might not be able to hold on to them if I can't find anything to
talk about or if they feel that we have no connections because we
can't converse. Thanks everyone I look forward to eharing from you!

Mthig
5.

----- Original Message -----

From: Glen

To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 3:37 AM

Subject: Re: [SocialFitnessForum] My last message.

The problem in my conscious mind nothing is really happening i think it
comes from the unconscious part of my mind. Underlying this is fear so
my body is basically telling me that this is a unsafe situation even
though my common sense might be saying otherwise. Its not danger in
regards to physical danger but danger in regards to emotional pain so
its a misguided attempt by my fight or flight mechanism (basically that
bit of me doesn't work very well). Why it happens this way probably
because of the stored negative experiences i had as kid being bullied
etc sometimes i wish i could just erase my memory and start again i
think it would be lot easier because those negative experiences you have
as a kid just don't happen when you get older actually the opposite
usually happens. That doesn't mean there are still those adults that do
act childish but they are few and far between and a lot easy to avoid.

If im in a situation where i feel safe eg i know the people Im with Im
fine i can drink coffee or water and never have a problem but introduce
a new person or unknown situation then there's trouble. And because its
unpredictable I start not to trust myself which makes me retreat more.

I've been reading a bit more about some NLP techniques such as
practicing and rephrasing etc which look interesting i hope to sign up
for a NLP course next month which might help

Cheers
Glen

On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 09:46:34 -0400, "Sam Rau" <sam.rau@wmich.edu> said:
> Although I think I know quite a bit about how we work in terms of
> creating things (whether it's the shakes or any other experience we have)
> I am far from an expert in dealing with this stuff. I'm beginning to
> realize when I'm engaged in such behaviors and am starting to exhert
> control over them, however I still have these things happen from time to
> time. For example I'm going to go out with this girl later tonight, and
> I might get tongue-tied despite my best efforts not to. I will do the
> best I can to focus on what I want, but I have to go into the whole thing
> with the idea that things are going to happen how they're going to
> happen. I can't do anything about a situation which hasn't happened yet
> (and worrying about it will only cause me to focus on what I don't want)
> and all I can do is just go in there and focus on doing great. I don't
> want to have to live up to an expectation of doing great, as I could
> easily screw that up and start to feel bad and screw it up more and feel
> worse and blah blah blah, but in my oppinion I'm doing great if I can
> just be myself. Even if I'm a bit nervous, if I can still have a great
> time being myself then I don't see this as much of a problem; I might
> even have so much fun that I forget about being nervous until it's too
> late, which kind of worries me because I don't know what might happen
> then...
>
> I think that it's important to watch what happens inside when these
> things happen. You don't have to write it in here if you don't feel
> comfortable, but I think that it might be a good idea. I know that
> writing in here helps me, and perhaps it will help others to open up
> (either for them or for me) and share similar experiences which may teach
> me something. At any rate, I'd be willing to bet that there are thoughts
> which accompany this shaking thing. I would also bet that these thoughts
> are similar in nature, in that even if it happens in different
> situation(s) the thoughts or what you picture happening etc are similar.
> They go by quite fast so that it's hard to notice them, and if emotions
> are high they seem to go by even faster, but just watch what happens.
> What do you say to yourself when this is happening, and maybe just
> beforehand? Are there any feelings associated with this; I think I
> already know, but it never hurts to check and ask. Are there any
> pictures, perhaps pictures of the thing that you definitely don't want?
> Do you notice any other reaction, either in your body or your mind.
> Everything, and anything, no matter what helps to create awareness of
> what you're doing inside. If you become aware that certain things
> preceed the shaking, and you then watch these things happen, you'll find
> that you can no longer do these things. At any rate that's how it's
> sposed to work; it sometimes doesn't work perfectly for me either. But
> please just give it a try and, if you feel ok with it, write your
> findings in here so that we can share too. I'd be willing to bet that
> your "problem" is something that most of us share, if not in detail than
> in the general big-picture of what's going on.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Glen
> To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 3:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [SocialFitnessForum] My last message.
>
>
> Yeh the most frustrating thing i find is not being in control of whats
> happening with my body. Even if i have no thoughts in my head that i
> should be nervous in some situation sometimes my hands will start
> shaking for no reason. This is very embarrassing in a job interview
> where you may be offered a water or drink i had an experience once
> where
> my hand was shaking so bad i spilled water all over the interviewers
> desk (I didn't get that job). I try to avoid getting into these
> situations by always refusing drinks etc as much as possible but again
> last week during a client meeting everyone was giving a coffee during
> the meeting and i got the shakes again. Im not confident I'll ever be
> able to shake this but i think i can learn to work around it kind of
> feel the fear and do it anyway.
>
> Cheers
> Glen
>
> On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 13:20:22 -0400, "Sam Rau" <sam.rau@wmich.edu> said:
> > I know what you mean about that. I used to be very peranoid about people
> > thinking bad of me; i would say that in fact this boarder lined on
> > psychosis. At one time I even thought that my brother was an under-cover
> > cop trying to bust me for something, because he hesitated to tell me that
> > I smelled bad because I was sweating (I'm sure that I didn't). You may
> > not have had experiences like this, and I hope that nobody does, but I
> > point this out to illustrate how strangely our brains work.
> >
> > I think that we will find evidence for what is going on. For example if
> > you feel anxious for some reason your mind will go out and find a reason
> > for it, based on your beliefs and values etc. I might get a feeling in
> > my stomach and chalk it up to my not being liked by people (you know when
> > you get anxious around new people etc) when it might mean that I'm
> > excited about what might happen etc. I've often found that I get really
> > anxious before going to be with a bunch of my friends, however I can't
> > find the reason for the anxiety other than "it's just there" until I
> > start thinking and thinking and thinking about what it might be caused
> > by; of course it's probably because I'm not doing something right, or am
> > doing something wrong, or am otherwise doing something... I think though
> > that we often confuse feelings because we're not really good (at first)
> > at identifying exactly what the feeling is and that this can lead to
> > trouble. Say I have butterflies in my stomach before I go to meet a
> > bunch of friends. The feeling doesn't really bother me until I start
> > thinking about it and come up with a reason as to why I'm having it; it's
> > only when I get a reason for why I "must" be having the feeling that I
> > start to feel bad. I have an interesting story about this sourt of
> > thing. I've found that when I'm anxious it is in fact that I'm a bit
> > hungry. I remember before a test one time I felt really strong feelings
> > in my stomach which resulted in my thinking about the test and how I was
> > going to mess it up good. I then thought to myself "there's nothing you
> > can do about it, so stop saying this stuff to yourself" and then the
> > feeling changed. It wasn't gone, but it felt more like I was hungry more
> > than anything. I told myself "when I do good on this test I'll go get
> > some food" which allowed me to put asside the hunger for a little while
> > as I knew I wasn't going to do anything about it at the time. Maybe I'm
> > not explaining this clearly, but I found that after I put the anger
> > asside I was able to take the test no problem. I still was a bit anxious
> > about it but the feeling no longer had as much power over me, and I
> > wasn't prompted to think constantly about how I might (or am or whatever)
> > screw it up. I hope that made sense; I'm still unwraveling it...
> >
> > My main point is that we have a lot of information about what the outer
> > world is like, but not that much about what's going on inside of us. We
> > can be told a certain amount about what feelings are etc, but there's no
> > way to teach what to expect internally. For example you might describe
> > how you're feeling right now, but even this is just a description of how
> > it is for you; even if you said "I feel calm" or "I feel anxious" or
> > whatever this is just a convenient label for a description and doesn't
> > describe the real thing. Budists would describe this as being a finger
> > pointing at the moon, rather than the moon itself. Perhaps this is why
> > us "social missfits" have such problems, because we assume that we're the
> > only ones who don't quite know what's going on inside our own boddies. I
> > would be willing to bet that most, if not all, people experience life in
> > this manner of trial and error. Sure some of us have had more experience
> > and thus have learned more, but we're all escentially in the same boat.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Glen
> > To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 3:06 AM
> > Subject: Re: [SocialFitnessForum] My last message.
> >
> >
> > It certainly sounds like your doing pretty well i think the more
> > comfortable you are at sharing in front of people the more people will
> > share with you.I kind of realized i need to stop waiting all the time
> > for people to initiate contact with me and i really need to take the
> > risk if im every going to change.For me talking in fount of groups has
> > always been something that is very hard but i am finally starting to
> > make some progress. Its hard when your physical reactions kick in for
> > me
> > this means i start sweating profusely. To the point i have beeds of
> > sweet coming from my forehead and i start to smell like I've been
> > working out at the gym for the last hour. It takes a lot of courage to
> > face up to those things when they happen and what you think about what
> > the other people are thinking of you. Eg when i try to talk to girls Im
> > sweat city not being an attractive guy it just one more mark against
> > you. That said the more I try the more desensitized i become but you do
> > have to be strong.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Glen
> >
> > On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 07:24:56 -0400, "Sam Rau" <sam.rau@wmich.edu> said:
> > > I think that feedback is important, however just as important is how we
> > > process this internally; here I go again with the long-winded... :-) I
> > > think that all feedback is genuine, the only problem is when people
> > > aren't really genuine with themselves. Like you said people will want to
> > > be nice and won't be honest about a problem, but I find that I can get
> > > honest feedback if I want. For example the other night I was going back
> > > to my place for the night and talking to Sean about the girl I had just
> > > had a great conversation with. We had gone off into god and philosophy
> > > and all sourts of stuff but although we had a great conversation for some
> > > reason I didn't get her number. I thought about it at the time, but
> > > somehow it "just didn't happen". I said to Sean "I should've gotten her
> > > number; what the f*ck's wrong with me" to which he replied "hey, it's
> > > only the beginning of the school year". He knew that I was joking about
> > > something really being wrong with me, but I could tell that there was
> > > more than his reassurance by the tone of his voice. He sounded pretty
> > > passionate about it (his voice raised a bit and he sounded like he really
> > > meant it) as if he were saying "don't beat yourself up for it, because
> > > there are plenty of opportunities, and if you act then like you did
> > > tonight you'll do fine". Of course I'm assuming all of this and I'm not
> > > sure exactly why he said it this way (or if anything was *really*
> > > different) but I thinkk that nevertheless there was some feedback here.
> > >
> > > I think that the more clear we are about what we want the more likely we
> > > are to get it. This extends to everything in life I believe, but you can
> > > probably see how we can apply this to feedback and social situations. If
> > > I focus on learning as much as I can from situations for example I don't
> > > feel awkward about the situation as I'm too busy just soaking everything
> > > in. I will say that a few times Yesterday I felt a bit awkward talking
> > > to some professors and other students in the classes, but since I was
> > > focused on learning this didn't bother me that much. In fact, despite
> > > this email getting a bit long, I'd like to tell a story about this.
> > >
> > > I was in my "psychology in the schools" class (the professors are kind of
> > > wind bags, but still cool) and one of the guys was trying to make idle
> > > conversation to get the class going. Incidentally I could tell that he
> > > was strougling a bit, as he would faulter a lot and seemed a bit nervous;
> > > I wonder if this was me? Anyway he said something about there only being
> > > five males in the class with the rest being females, and asked what we
> > > thought about that ratio. I said "that ratio sounds perfect if you ask
> > > me" which made everyone laugh, but then one of the professors said "well
> > > nobody asked you" which made people laugh harder. I felt a bit weird as
> > > I didn't quite know what to make of that, but I just laughed along with
> > > them (and actually found it funny) and as a result continued to enjoy my
> > > time (as much as I can enjoy that three-hour class). I went up to the
> > > professors after class and talked with them a bit, and they seemed really
> > > cool and I imagine that they felt the same as I did. At any rate, that's
> > > my story.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Glen
> > > To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 8:31 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [SocialFitnessForum] My last message.
> > >
> > >
> > > I guess one of the problems with email and forums is that sometimes
> > > they
> > > are not the best mechanism to receive feedback or even judge what a
> > > person might be thinking of you etc. Its very one sided and there is no
> > > way in which to clarify the meaning of anything if you have a tendency
> > > to think people will reject you then this is where you thoughts can
> > > often fall.
> > >
> > > The best way is to go out and meet the problem head on its very hard
> > > sometimes and honestly i have struggled to find people who will give
> > > you
> > > genuine feedback most people will be nice to you but if i have a
> > > problem
> > > i want to know so i can work on fixing it. On the other hand it can be
> > > very hard to give and take feedback that is critcal because we all tend
> > > to take life to seriously. eg if you hear something negative about
> > > yourself even said in a positive way it can lower you self esteem.
> > >
> > > I think you need to be careful not to flood people with information
> > > everybody has different spans of attention an important message can get
> > > lost in a monologue. To be honest i rarely ever read a large email
> > > (even
> > > at work) I read the first few paragraphs and may the last to work out
> > > if
> > > there is any important information. If i need to take action on
> > > something then i might read the entire message otherwise I find i get
> > > so
> > > many other emails I find it hard to give something that long a slice of
> > > time.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Glen
> > >
> > > On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 08:35:57 -0400, "Sam Rau" <sam.rau@wmich.edu> said:
> > > > I totally aggree with this. I think that a lot of times we perceive
> > > > people to be rejecting us when this really isn't the case. I would hope
> > > > that I give good feedback here, and I would hope that I act in such a
> > > > manner that people don't hesitate to give me feedback. I think that it's
> > > > important to just let feedback be what it is; even if my not getting
> > > > replies were a part of the feedback, I have no way of knowing exactly
> > > > what that feedback is or what it means for me. There is feedback all
> > > > around us, but we only perceive that which is in line with what we
> > > > already believe to be true. If I'm a shy person I might perceive people
> > > > as not liking me just because there's a group talking and they don't all
> > > > jump up and introduce themselves. But maybe a confident person would
> > > > have the same external feedback but interpret it as the group of people
> > > > are just tight-knit or something like that. My point is that, although
> > > > two people may perceive the same sensory information, their experiences
> > > > are individual.
> > > >
> > > > I'm just wondering how I can get feedback from people. Honestly I don't
> > > > think that I really need it, in that I'm a horrible communicator who
> > > > really needs to tone it down a bit, but I'm really interested in learning
> > > > and understanding people. I think that this skill is not only crucial
> > > > for social interactions and feeling good etc, but it's important for
> > > > everything we do.
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Glen
> > > > To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 12:28 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [SocialFitnessForum] My last message.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Sam,
> > > >
> > > > Like a lot of us it sounds like you might be a bit over sensitive to
> > > > feedback. God knows i am I'm constantly evaluating the feedback I
> > > > receive from people for good and bad signals. Being someone who tends
> > > > to err on the side of negativity this just makes things harder. But its
> > > > is hard one of the basic human needs i think is to be recognized when
> > > > that doesn't happen it tends to bring you down although i have noticed
> > > > the people that i admire communication wise it doesn't seem to affect
> > > > them as much.
> > > >
> > > > I think sometimes it comes down to risk I'll risk saying something or
> > > > trying to talk to someone but i shouldn't expect a good result,
> > > > hopefully the more i do it the less fear I'll have taking those risks
> > > > and maybe I'll get an okay result some of the time. But I'll be okay
> > > > when there is no result or a negative one. I think the thing with
> > > > rejection is that the fear of rejection is much worse then the
> > > > experience.
> > > >
> > > > I think most people appreciate the feedback you give i certainly do.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Glen
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 16:31:44 -0400, "Sam Rau" <sam.rau@wmich.edu> said:
> > > > > I'm interested in how you guys get feedback from people as to whether
> > > > > you're doing ok in a social situation. I'm unsure of how to go about
> > > > > doing this, or how to leave it alone when I'm doing a good job. For
> > > > > example I'm wondering if anyone might have some feedback on how I
> > > > > participate in this forum. I wrote a message a little while back asking
> > > > > if anyone would still want to hang out with me after the rant I gave, and
> > > > > nobody replied. Should I chalk it up to nobody wanting to hang out with
> > > > > me, or is something else going on here? I think that we often question
> > > > > ourselves and whether or not we're ok in the eyes of others for no
> > > > > reason; perhaps everyone is busy, perhaps nobody read the message,
> > > > > perhaps a number of veriables other than my being awkward resulted in my
> > > > > not getting a responce. This would have bothered me a while ago, as I
> > > > > would obsess over whether or not people like me, however nowadays I'd
> > > > > like to use this information (if any) to grow and move forward. Please
> > > > > let me know any thoughts on this, positive or negative, because any
> > > > > information is better than no information. C'mon, now, don't be shy.
> > > > --
> > > > Glen
> > > > pringle31@fastmail.fm
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > http://www.fastmail.fm - Access your email from home and the web
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > --
> > > Glen
> > > pringle31@fastmail.fm
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://www.fastmail.fm - I mean, what is it about a decent email
> > > service?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > --
> > Glen
> > pringle31@fastmail.fm
> >
> > --
> > http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and
> > love email again
> >
> >
> >
> >
> --
> Glen
> pringle31@fastmail.fm
>
> --
> http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and
> love email again
>
>
>
>
--
Glen
pringle31@fastmail.fm

--
http://www.fastmail.fm - The way an email service should be

Hey all,

I was wondering what people's thought are on making conversation. I
have asked questions about this before, but they have been hidden in
other questions so perhaps this is why I really haven't gotten much
feedback yet. My main problem is that when I'm with people, even
people who I am not nervous with at all like my close relatives, I
have problems thinking of what to say. I've found a lot of solutions
for this problem, but I feel that I am not as good as I shoudl be at
this point. At first I thought I needed to relax more, and that
really helps, but even relaxing doesn't just "provide" things to say.
Lately my thoughts have gone to I am not in touch with my interests
and hobbies, therefore I haave nothing to talk about to other people
in order to find common ground. I've also thought that my habit of
smiling all the time when I'm nervous makes people feel uncomfortable
around me because they feel like I don't  show my real feelings, so
they shouldn't show me their's either, and then they feel the need to
only be nice to me and we never get to a point of trust where we can
just be ourselves. I am past the point of wanting to be the life of
the party, because I haev excepted teh fact that that's not who I am
and I actually like the fact that I have other qualities that extreme
extroverts do not exhibit. however, I realized that I am not
necessarily enjoyable to people, and I think I need to be more
playful in life. So, to get to the point, the things I have learned
about making conversations and connections with people are:
1. Relax
2. Know your interests and at least some general interests so that
you can be knowledgable about interests of others.
3. SHOW YOUR TRUE FEELINGS so that people feel like they can relate
to you and that you are not just a robot.
4. Be playful (don't TRY to be funny, just don't be so worried about
what others think and HAVE FUN)
5. Realize that no one talks ALL the time, silences are okay.
6. Realize that other people just let convos come about, I found that
I always bring up the same topics because they are things that I know
that the other person can talk to me about, but that gets boring.
Just observe your surroundings, know your interests and be able to
speak about them, and do things so that you can relate stories about
topics that might come up.
7. Observe other people's conversations and the topics that they
strat talking about (without being a total eavesdropper) so that you
can mimic that with your own twist.

So basicly I just wanted to put my findings out there and I really
hope that this time some of the people who have said that they have
improved with their shyness can offer tips as to how they make
conversation. you see, this is coming from the same girl who wrote
the message about not being ablt to make friends in college, and now
I'm actually making friends (SEE, WE CAN DO IT!) but not I feel like
I might not be able to hold on to them if I can't find anything to
talk about or if they feel that we have no connections because we
can't converse. Thanks everyone I look forward to eharing from you!

Mthig
5.

The problem in my conscious mind nothing is really happening i think it
comes from the unconscious part of my mind. Underlying this is fear so
my body is basically telling me that this is a unsafe situation even
though my common sense might be saying otherwise. Its not danger in
regards to physical danger but danger in regards to emotional pain so
its a misguided attempt by my fight or flight mechanism (basically that
bit of me doesn't work very well). Why it happens this way probably
because of the stored negative experiences i had as kid being bullied
etc sometimes i wish i could just erase my memory and start again i
think it would be lot easier because those negative experiences you have
as a kid just don't happen when you get older actually the opposite
usually happens. That doesn't mean there are still those adults that do
act childish but they are few and far between and a lot easy to avoid.

If im in a situation where i feel safe eg i know the people Im with Im
fine i can drink coffee or water and never have a problem but introduce
a new person or unknown situation then there's trouble. And because its
unpredictable I start not to trust myself which makes me retreat more.

I've been reading a bit more about some NLP techniques such as
practicing and rephrasing etc which look interesting i hope to sign up
for a NLP course next month which might help

Cheers
Glen



On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 09:46:34 -0400, "Sam Rau" <sam.rau@...> said:
> Although I think I know quite a bit about how we work in terms of
> creating things (whether it's the shakes or any other experience we have)
> I am far from an expert in dealing with this stuff.  I'm beginning to
> realize when I'm engaged in such behaviors and am starting to exhert
> control over them, however I still have these things happen from time to
> time.  For example I'm going to go out with this girl later tonight, and
> I might get tongue-tied despite my best efforts not to.  I will do the
> best I can to focus on what I want, but I have to go into the whole thing
> with the idea that things are going to happen how they're going to
> happen.  I can't do anything about a situation which hasn't happened yet
> (and worrying about it will only cause me to focus on what I don't want)
> and all I can do is just go in there and focus on doing great.  I don't
> want to have to live up to an expectation of doing great, as I could
> easily screw that up and start to feel bad and screw it up more and feel
> worse and blah blah blah, but in my oppinion I'm doing great if I can
> just be myself.  Even if I'm a bit nervous, if I can still have a great
> time being myself then I don't see this as much of a problem; I might
> even have so much fun that I forget about being nervous until it's too
> late, which kind of worries me because I don't know what might happen
> then...
>
> I think that it's important to watch what happens inside when these
> things happen.  You don't have to write it in here if you don't feel
> comfortable, but I think that it might be a good idea.  I know that
> writing in here helps me, and perhaps it will help others to open up
> (either for them or for me) and share similar experiences which may teach
> me something.  At any rate, I'd be willing to bet that there are thoughts
> which accompany this shaking thing.  I would also bet that these thoughts
> are similar in nature, in that even if it happens in different
> situation(s) the thoughts or what you picture happening etc are similar.
> They go by quite fast so that it's hard to notice them, and if emotions
> are high they seem to go by even faster, but just watch what happens.
> What do you say to yourself when this is happening, and maybe just
> beforehand?  Are there any feelings associated with this; I think I
> already know, but it never hurts to check and ask.  Are there any
> pictures, perhaps pictures of the thing that you definitely don't want?
> Do you notice any other reaction, either in your body or your mind.
> Everything, and anything, no matter what helps to create awareness of
> what you're doing inside.  If you become aware that certain things
> preceed the shaking, and you then watch these things happen, you'll find
> that you can no longer do these things.  At any rate that's how it's
> sposed to work; it sometimes doesn't work perfectly for me either.  But
> please just give it a try and, if you feel ok with it, write your
> findings in here so that we can share too.  I'd be willing to bet that
> your "problem" is something that most of us share, if not in detail than
> in the general big-picture of what's going on.
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Glen
>   To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 3:15 AM
>   Subject: Re: [SocialFitnessForum] My last message.
>
>
>   Yeh the most frustrating thing i find is not being in control of whats
>   happening with my body. Even if i have no thoughts in my head that i
>   should be nervous in some situation sometimes my hands will start
>   shaking for no reason. This is very embarrassing in a job interview
>   where you may be offered a water or drink i had an experience once
>   where
>   my hand was shaking so bad i spilled water all over the interviewers
>   desk (I didn't get that job). I try to avoid getting into these
>   situations by always refusing drinks etc as much as possible but again
>   last week during a client meeting everyone was giving a coffee during
>   the meeting and i got the shakes again. Im not confident I'll ever be
>   able to shake this but i think i can learn to work around it kind of
>   feel the fear and do it anyway.
>
>   Cheers
>   Glen
>
>   On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 13:20:22 -0400, "Sam Rau" <sam.rau@...> said:
>   > I know what you mean about that. I used to be very peranoid about people
>   > thinking bad of me; i would say that in fact this boarder lined on
>   > psychosis. At one time I even thought that my brother was an under-cover
>   > cop trying to bust me for something, because he hesitated to tell me that
>   > I smelled bad because I was sweating (I'm sure that I didn't). You may
>   > not have had experiences like this, and I hope that nobody does, but I
>   > point this out to illustrate how strangely our brains work.
>   >
>   > I think that we will find evidence for what is going on. For example if
>   > you feel anxious for some reason your mind will go out and find a reason
>   > for it, based on your beliefs and values etc. I might get a feeling in
>   > my stomach and chalk it up to my not being liked by people (you know when
>   > you get anxious around new people etc) when it might mean that I'm
>   > excited about what might happen etc. I've often found that I get really
>   > anxious before going to be with a bunch of my friends, however I can't
>   > find the reason for the anxiety other than "it's just there" until I
>   > start thinking and thinking and thinking about what it might be caused
>   > by; of course it's probably because I'm not doing something right, or am
>   > doing something wrong, or am otherwise doing something... I think though
>   > that we often confuse feelings because we're not really good (at first)
>   > at identifying exactly what the feeling is and that this can lead to
>   > trouble. Say I have butterflies in my stomach before I go to meet a
>   > bunch of friends. The feeling doesn't really bother me until I start
>   > thinking about it and come up with a reason as to why I'm having it; it's
>   > only when I get a reason for why I "must" be having the feeling that I
>   > start to feel bad. I have an interesting story about this sourt of
>   > thing. I've found that when I'm anxious it is in fact that I'm a bit
>   > hungry. I remember before a test one time I felt really strong feelings
>   > in my stomach which resulted in my thinking about the test and how I was
>   > going to mess it up good. I then thought to myself "there's nothing you
>   > can do about it, so stop saying this stuff to yourself" and then the
>   > feeling changed. It wasn't gone, but it felt more like I was hungry more
>   > than anything. I told myself "when I do good on this test I'll go get
>   > some food" which allowed me to put asside the hunger for a little while
>   > as I knew I wasn't going to do anything about it at the time. Maybe I'm
>   > not explaining this clearly, but I found that after I put the anger
>   > asside I was able to take the test no problem. I still was a bit anxious
>   > about it but the feeling no longer had as much power over me, and I
>   > wasn't prompted to think constantly about how I might (or am or whatever)
>   > screw it up. I hope that made sense; I'm still unwraveling it...
>   >
>   > My main point is that we have a lot of information about what the outer
>   > world is like, but not that much about what's going on inside of us. We
>   > can be told a certain amount about what feelings are etc, but there's no
>   > way to teach what to expect internally. For example you might describe
>   > how you're feeling right now, but even this is just a description of how
>   > it is for you; even if you said "I feel calm" or "I feel anxious" or
>   > whatever this is just a convenient label for a description and doesn't
>   > describe the real thing. Budists would describe this as being a finger
>   > pointing at the moon, rather than the moon itself. Perhaps this is why
>   > us "social missfits" have such problems, because we assume that we're the
>   > only ones who don't quite know what's going on inside our own boddies. I
>   > would be willing to bet that most, if not all, people experience life in
>   > this manner of trial and error. Sure some of us have had more experience
>   > and thus have learned more, but we're all escentially in the same boat.
>   > ----- Original Message -----
>   > From: Glen
>   > To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
>   > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 3:06 AM
>   > Subject: Re: [SocialFitnessForum] My last message.
>   >
>   >
>   > It certainly sounds like your doing pretty well i think the more
>   > comfortable you are at sharing in front of people the more people will
>   > share with you.I kind of realized i need to stop waiting all the time
>   > for people to initiate contact with me and i really need to take the
>   > risk if im every going to change.For me talking in fount of groups has
>   > always been something that is very hard but i am finally starting to
>   > make some progress. Its hard when your physical reactions kick in for
>   > me
>   > this means i start sweating profusely. To the point i have beeds of
>   > sweet coming from my forehead and i start to smell like I've been
>   > working out at the gym for the last hour. It takes a lot of courage to
>   > face up to those things when they happen and what you think about what
>   > the other people are thinking of you. Eg when i try to talk to girls Im
>   > sweat city not being an attractive guy it just one more mark against
>   > you. That said the more I try the more desensitized i become but you do
>   > have to be strong.
>   >
>   > Cheers
>   > Glen
>   >
>   > On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 07:24:56 -0400, "Sam Rau" <sam.rau@...> said:
>   > > I think that feedback is important, however just as important is how we
>   > > process this internally; here I go again with the long-winded... :-) I
>   > > think that all feedback is genuine, the only problem is when people
>   > > aren't really genuine with themselves. Like you said people will want to
>   > > be nice and won't be honest about a problem, but I find that I can get
>   > > honest feedback if I want. For example the other night I was going back
>   > > to my place for the night and talking to Sean about the girl I had just
>   > > had a great conversation with. We had gone off into god and philosophy
>   > > and all sourts of stuff but although we had a great conversation for
some
>   > > reason I didn't get her number. I thought about it at the time, but
>   > > somehow it "just didn't happen". I said to Sean "I should've gotten her
>   > > number; what the f*ck's wrong with me" to which he replied "hey, it's
>   > > only the beginning of the school year". He knew that I was joking about
>   > > something really being wrong with me, but I could tell that there was
>   > > more than his reassurance by the tone of his voice. He sounded pretty
>   > > passionate about it (his voice raised a bit and he sounded like he
really
>   > > meant it) as if he were saying "don't beat yourself up for it, because
>   > > there are plenty of opportunities, and if you act then like you did
>   > > tonight you'll do fine". Of course I'm assuming all of this and I'm not
>   > > sure exactly why he said it this way (or if anything was *really*
>   > > different) but I thinkk that nevertheless there was some feedback here.
>   > >
>   > > I think that the more clear we are about what we want the more likely we
>   > > are to get it. This extends to everything in life I believe, but you can
>   > > probably see how we can apply this to feedback and social situations. If
>   > > I focus on learning as much as I can from situations for example I don't
>   > > feel awkward about the situation as I'm too busy just soaking everything
>   > > in. I will say that a few times Yesterday I felt a bit awkward talking
>   > > to some professors and other students in the classes, but since I was
>   > > focused on learning this didn't bother me that much. In fact, despite
>   > > this email getting a bit long, I'd like to tell a story about this.
>   > >
>   > > I was in my "psychology in the schools" class (the professors are kind
of
>   > > wind bags, but still cool) and one of the guys was trying to make idle
>   > > conversation to get the class going. Incidentally I could tell that he
>   > > was strougling a bit, as he would faulter a lot and seemed a bit
nervous;
>   > > I wonder if this was me? Anyway he said something about there only being
>   > > five males in the class with the rest being females, and asked what we
>   > > thought about that ratio. I said "that ratio sounds perfect if you ask
>   > > me" which made everyone laugh, but then one of the professors said "well
>   > > nobody asked you" which made people laugh harder. I felt a bit weird as
>   > > I didn't quite know what to make of that, but I just laughed along with
>   > > them (and actually found it funny) and as a result continued to enjoy my
>   > > time (as much as I can enjoy that three-hour class). I went up to the
>   > > professors after class and talked with them a bit, and they seemed
really
>   > > cool and I imagine that they felt the same as I did. At any rate, that's
>   > > my story.
>   > > ----- Original Message -----
>   > > From: Glen
>   > > To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
>   > > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 8:31 PM
>   > > Subject: Re: [SocialFitnessForum] My last message.
>   > >
>   > >
>   > > I guess one of the problems with email and forums is that sometimes
>   > > they
>   > > are not the best mechanism to receive feedback or even judge what a
>   > > person might be thinking of you etc. Its very one sided and there is no
>   > > way in which to clarify the meaning of anything if you have a tendency
>   > > to think people will reject you then this is where you thoughts can
>   > > often fall.
>   > >
>   > > The best way is to go out and meet the problem head on its very hard
>   > > sometimes and honestly i have struggled to find people who will give
>   > > you
>   > > genuine feedback most people will be nice to you but if i have a
>   > > problem
>   > > i want to know so i can work on fixing it. On the other hand it can be
>   > > very hard to give and take feedback that is critcal because we all tend
>   > > to take life to seriously. eg if you hear something negative about
>   > > yourself even said in a positive way it can lower you self esteem.
>   > >
>   > > I think you need to be careful not to flood people with information
>   > > everybody has different spans of attention an important message can get
>   > > lost in a monologue. To be honest i rarely ever read a large email
>   > > (even
>   > > at work) I read the first few paragraphs and may the last to work out
>   > > if
>   > > there is any important information. If i need to take action on
>   > > something then i might read the entire message otherwise I find i get
>   > > so
>   > > many other emails I find it hard to give something that long a slice of
>   > > time.
>   > >
>   > > Cheers
>   > > Glen
>   > >
>   > > On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 08:35:57 -0400, "Sam Rau" <sam.rau@...> said:
>   > > > I totally aggree with this. I think that a lot of times we perceive
>   > > > people to be rejecting us when this really isn't the case. I would
hope
>   > > > that I give good feedback here, and I would hope that I act in such a
>   > > > manner that people don't hesitate to give me feedback. I think that
it's
>   > > > important to just let feedback be what it is; even if my not getting
>   > > > replies were a part of the feedback, I have no way of knowing exactly
>   > > > what that feedback is or what it means for me. There is feedback all
>   > > > around us, but we only perceive that which is in line with what we
>   > > > already believe to be true. If I'm a shy person I might perceive
people
>   > > > as not liking me just because there's a group talking and they don't
all
>   > > > jump up and introduce themselves. But maybe a confident person would
>   > > > have the same external feedback but interpret it as the group of
people
>   > > > are just tight-knit or something like that. My point is that, although
>   > > > two people may perceive the same sensory information, their
experiences
>   > > > are individual.
>   > > >
>   > > > I'm just wondering how I can get feedback from people. Honestly I
don't
>   > > > think that I really need it, in that I'm a horrible communicator who
>   > > > really needs to tone it down a bit, but I'm really interested in
learning
>   > > > and understanding people. I think that this skill is not only crucial
>   > > > for social interactions and feeling good etc, but it's important for
>   > > > everything we do.
>   > > > ----- Original Message -----
>   > > > From: Glen
>   > > > To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
>   > > > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 12:28 AM
>   > > > Subject: Re: [SocialFitnessForum] My last message.
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > > > Hi Sam,
>   > > >
>   > > > Like a lot of us it sounds like you might be a bit over sensitive to
>   > > > feedback. God knows i am I'm constantly evaluating the feedback I
>   > > > receive from people for good and bad signals. Being someone who tends
>   > > > to err on the side of negativity this just makes things harder. But
its
>   > > > is hard one of the basic human needs i think is to be recognized when
>   > > > that doesn't happen it tends to bring you down although i have noticed
>   > > > the people that i admire communication wise it doesn't seem to affect
>   > > > them as much.
>   > > >
>   > > > I think sometimes it comes down to risk I'll risk saying something or
>   > > > trying to talk to someone but i shouldn't expect a good result,
>   > > > hopefully the more i do it the less fear I'll have taking those risks
>   > > > and maybe I'll get an okay result some of the time. But I'll be okay
>   > > > when there is no result or a negative one. I think the thing with
>   > > > rejection is that the fear of rejection is much worse then the
>   > > > experience.
>   > > >
>   > > > I think most people appreciate the feedback you give i certainly do.
>   > > >
>   > > > Cheers
>   > > > Glen
>   > > >
>   > > > On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 16:31:44 -0400, "Sam Rau" <sam.rau@...>
said:
>   > > > > I'm interested in how you guys get feedback from people as to
whether
>   > > > > you're doing ok in a social situation. I'm unsure of how to go about
>   > > > > doing this, or how to leave it alone when I'm doing a good job. For
>   > > > > example I'm wondering if anyone might have some feedback on how I
>   > > > > participate in this forum. I wrote a message a little while back
asking
>   > > > > if anyone would still want to hang out with me after the rant I
gave, and
>   > > > > nobody replied. Should I chalk it up to nobody wanting to hang out
with
>   > > > > me, or is something else going on here? I think that we often
question
>   > > > > ourselves and whether or not we're ok in the eyes of others for no
>   > > > > reason; perhaps everyone is busy, perhaps nobody read the message,
>   > > > > perhaps a number of veriables other than my being awkward resulted
in my
>   > > > > not getting a responce. This would have bothered me a while ago, as
I
>   > > > > would obsess over whether or not people like me, however nowadays
I'd
>   > > > > like to use this information (if any) to grow and move forward.
Please
>   > > > > let me know any thoughts on this, positive or negative, because any
>   > > > > information is better than no information. C'mon, now, don't be shy.
>   > > > --
>   > > > Glen
>   > > > pringle31@...
>   > > >
>   > > > --
>   > > > http://www.fastmail.fm - Access your email from home and the web
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > > --
>   > > Glen
>   > > pringle31@...
>   > >
>   > > --
>   > > http://www.fastmail.fm - I mean, what is it about a decent email
>   > > service?
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > --
>   > Glen
>   > pringle31@...
>   >
>   > --
>   > http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and
>   > love email again
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   --
>   Glen
>   pringle31@...
>
>   --
>   http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and
>   love email again
>
>
>
>
--
   Glen
   pringle31@...

--
http://www.fastmail.fm - The way an email service should be

----- Original Message -----

From: Glen

To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 3:15 AM

Subject: Re: [SocialFitnessForum] My last message.

Yeh the most frustrating thing i find is not being in control of whats
happening with my body. Even if i have no thoughts in my head that i
should be nervous in some situation sometimes my hands will start
shaking for no reason. This is very embarrassing in a job interview
where you may be offered a water or drink i had an experience once where
my hand was shaking so bad i spilled water all over the interviewers
desk (I didn't get that job). I try to avoid getting into these
situations by always refusing drinks etc as much as possible but again
last week during a client meeting everyone was giving a coffee during
the meeting and i got the shakes again. Im not confident I'll ever be
able to shake this but i think i can learn to work around it kind of
feel the fear and do it anyway.

Cheers
Glen

On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 13:20:22 -0400, "Sam Rau" <sam.rau@wmich.edu> said:
> I know what you mean about that. I used to be very peranoid about people
> thinking bad of me; i would say that in fact this boarder lined on
> psychosis. At one time I even thought that my brother was an under-cover
> cop trying to bust me for something, because he hesitated to tell me that
> I smelled bad because I was sweating (I'm sure that I didn't). You may
> not have had experiences like this, and I hope that nobody does, but I
> point this out to illustrate how strangely our brains work.
>
> I think that we will find evidence for what is going on. For example if
> you feel anxious for some reason your mind will go out and find a reason
> for it, based on your beliefs and values etc. I might get a feeling in
> my stomach and chalk it up to my not being liked by people (you know when
> you get anxious around new people etc) when it might mean that I'm
> excited about what might happen etc. I've often found that I get really
> anxious before going to be with a bunch of my friends, however I can't
> find the reason for the anxiety other than "it's just there" until I
> start thinking and thinking and thinking about what it might be caused
> by; of course it's probably because I'm not doing something right, or am
> doing something wrong, or am otherwise doing something... I think though
> that we often confuse feelings because we're not really good (at first)
> at identifying exactly what the feeling is and that this can lead to
> trouble. Say I have butterflies in my stomach before I go to meet a
> bunch of friends. The feeling doesn't really bother me until I start
> thinking about it and come up with a reason as to why I'm having it; it's
> only when I get a reason for why I "must" be having the feeling that I
> start to feel bad. I have an interesting story about this sourt of
> thing. I've found that when I'm anxious it is in fact that I'm a bit
> hungry. I remember before a test one time I felt really strong feelings
> in my stomach which resulted in my thinking about the test and how I was
> going to mess it up good. I then thought to myself "there's nothing you
> can do about it, so stop saying this stuff to yourself" and then the
> feeling changed. It wasn't gone, but it felt more like I was hungry more
> than anything. I told myself "when I do good on this test I'll go get
> some food" which allowed me to put asside the hunger for a little while
> as I knew I wasn't going to do anything about it at the time. Maybe I'm
> not explaining this clearly, but I found that after I put the anger
> asside I was able to take the test no problem. I still was a bit anxious
> about it but the feeling no longer had as much power over me, and I
> wasn't prompted to think constantly about how I might (or am or whatever)
> screw it up. I hope that made sense; I'm still unwraveling it...
>
> My main point is that we have a lot of information about what the outer
> world is like, but not that much about what's going on inside of us. We
> can be told a certain amount about what feelings are etc, but there's no
> way to teach what to expect internally. For example you might describe
> how you're feeling right now, but even this is just a description of how
> it is for you; even if you said "I feel calm" or "I feel anxious" or
> whatever this is just a convenient label for a description and doesn't
> describe the real thing. Budists would describe this as being a finger
> pointing at the moon, rather than the moon itself. Perhaps this is why
> us "social missfits" have such problems, because we assume that we're the
> only ones who don't quite know what's going on inside our own boddies. I
> would be willing to bet that most, if not all, people experience life in
> this manner of trial and error. Sure some of us have had more experience
> and thus have learned more, but we're all escentially in the same boat.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Glen
> To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 3:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [SocialFitnessForum] My last message.
>
>
> It certainly sounds like your doing pretty well i think the more
> comfortable you are at sharing in front of people the more people will
> share with you.I kind of realized i need to stop waiting all the time
> for people to initiate contact with me and i really need to take the
> risk if im every going to change.For me talking in fount of groups has
> always been something that is very hard but i am finally starting to
> make some progress. Its hard when your physical reactions kick in for
> me
> this means i start sweating profusely. To the point i have beeds of
> sweet coming from my forehead and i start to smell like I've been
> working out at the gym for the last hour. It takes a lot of courage to
> face up to those things when they happen and what you think about what
> the other people are thinking of you. Eg when i try to talk to girls Im
> sweat city not being an attractive guy it just one more mark against
> you. That said the more I try the more desensitized i become but you do
> have to be strong.
>
> Cheers
> Glen
>
> On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 07:24:56 -0400, "Sam Rau" <sam.rau@wmich.edu> said:
> > I think that feedback is important, however just as important is how we
> > process this internally; here I go again with the long-winded... :-) I
> > think that all feedback is genuine, the only problem is when people
> > aren't really genuine with themselves. Like you said people will want to
> > be nice and won't be honest about a problem, but I find that I can get
> > honest feedback if I want. For example the other night I was going back
> > to my place for the night and talking to Sean about the girl I had just
> > had a great conversation with. We had gone off into god and philosophy
> > and all sourts of stuff but although we had a great conversation for some
> > reason I didn't get her number. I thought about it at the time, but
> > somehow it "just didn't happen". I said to Sean "I should've gotten her
> > number; what the f*ck's wrong with me" to which he replied "hey, it's
> > only the beginning of the school year". He knew that I was joking about
> > something really being wrong with me, but I could tell that there was
> > more than his reassurance by the tone of his voice. He sounded pretty
> > passionate about it (his voice raised a bit and he sounded like he really
> > meant it) as if he were saying "don't beat yourself up for it, because
> > there are plenty of opportunities, and if you act then like you did
> > tonight you'll do fine". Of course I'm assuming all of this and I'm not
> > sure exactly why he said it this way (or if anything was *really*
> > different) but I thinkk that nevertheless there was some feedback here.
> >
> > I think that the more clear we are about what we want the more likely we
> > are to get it. This extends to everything in life I believe, but you can
> > probably see how we can apply this to feedback and social situations. If
> > I focus on learning as much as I can from situations for example I don't
> > feel awkward about the situation as I'm too busy just soaking everything
> > in. I will say that a few times Yesterday I felt a bit awkward talking
> > to some professors and other students in the classes, but since I was
> > focused on learning this didn't bother me that much. In fact, despite
> > this email getting a bit long, I'd like to tell a story about this.
> >
> > I was in my "psychology in the schools" class (the professors are kind of
> > wind bags, but still cool) and one of the guys was trying to make idle
> > conversation to get the class going. Incidentally I could tell that he
> > was strougling a bit, as he would faulter a lot and seemed a bit nervous;
> > I wonder if this was me? Anyway he said something about there only being
> > five males in the class with the rest being females, and asked what we
> > thought about that ratio. I said "that ratio sounds perfect if you ask
> > me" which made everyone laugh, but then one of the professors said "well
> > nobody asked you" which made people laugh harder. I felt a bit weird as
> > I didn't quite know what to make of that, but I just laughed along with
> > them (and actually found it funny) and as a result continued to enjoy my
> > time (as much as I can enjoy that three-hour class). I went up to the
> > professors after class and talked with them a bit, and they seemed really
> > cool and I imagine that they felt the same as I did. At any rate, that's
> > my story.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Glen
> > To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 8:31 PM
> > Subject: Re: [SocialFitnessForum] My last message.
> >
> >
> > I guess one of the problems with email and forums is that sometimes
> > they
> > are not the best mechanism to receive feedback or even judge what a
> > person might be thinking of you etc. Its very one sided and there is no
> > way in which to clarify the meaning of anything if you have a tendency
> > to think people will reject you then this is where you thoughts can
> > often fall.
> >
> > The best way is to go out and meet the problem head on its very hard
> > sometimes and honestly i have struggled to find people who will give
> > you
> > genuine feedback most people will be nice to you but if i have a
> > problem
> > i want to know so i can work on fixing it. On the other hand it can be
> > very hard to give and take feedback that is critcal because we all tend
> > to take life to seriously. eg if you hear something negative about
> > yourself even said in a positive way it can lower you self esteem.
> >
> > I think you need to be careful not to flood people with information
> > everybody has different spans of attention an important message can get
> > lost in a monologue. To be honest i rarely ever read a large email
> > (even
> > at work) I read the first few paragraphs and may the last to work out
> > if
> > there is any important information. If i need to take action on
> > something then i might read the entire message otherwise I find i get
> > so
> > many other emails I find it hard to give something that long a slice of
> > time.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Glen
> >
> > On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 08:35:57 -0400, "Sam Rau" <sam.rau@wmich.edu> said:
> > > I totally aggree with this. I think that a lot of times we perceive
> > > people to be rejecting us when this really isn't the case. I would hope
> > > that I give good feedback here, and I would hope that I act in such a
> > > manner that people don't hesitate to give me feedback. I think that it's
> > > important to just let feedback be what it is; even if my not getting
> > > replies were a part of the feedback, I have no way of knowing exactly
> > > what that feedback is or what it means for me. There is feedback all
> > > around us, but we only perceive that which is in line with what we
> > > already believe to be true. If I'm a shy person I might perceive people
> > > as not liking me just because there's a group talking and they don't all
> > > jump up and introduce themselves. But maybe a confident person would
> > > have the same external feedback but interpret it as the group of people
> > > are just tight-knit or something like that. My point is that, although
> > > two people may perceive the same sensory information, their experiences
> > > are individual.
> > >
> > > I'm just wondering how I can get feedback from people. Honestly I don't
> > > think that I really need it, in that I'm a horrible communicator who
> > > really needs to tone it down a bit, but I'm really interested in learning
> > > and understanding people. I think that this skill is not only crucial
> > > for social interactions and feeling good etc, but it's important for
> > > everything we do.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Glen
> > > To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 12:28 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [SocialFitnessForum] My last message.
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Sam,
> > >
> > > Like a lot of us it sounds like you might be a bit over sensitive to
> > > feedback. God knows i am I'm constantly evaluating the feedback I
> > > receive from people for good and bad signals. Being someone who tends
> > > to err on the side of negativity this just makes things harder. But its
> > > is hard one of the basic human needs i think is to be recognized when
> > > that doesn't happen it tends to bring you down although i have noticed
> > > the people that i admire communication wise it doesn't seem to affect
> > > them as much.
> > >
> > > I think sometimes it comes down to risk I'll risk saying something or
> > > trying to talk to someone but i shouldn't expect a good result,
> > > hopefully the more i do it the less fear I'll have taking those risks
> > > and maybe I'll get an okay result some of the time. But I'll be okay
> > > when there is no result or a negative one. I think the thing with
> > > rejection is that the fear of rejection is much worse then the
> > > experience.
> > >
> > > I think most people appreciate the feedback you give i certainly do.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Glen
> > >
> > > On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 16:31:44 -0400, "Sam Rau" <sam.rau@wmich.edu> said:
> > > > I'm interested in how you guys get feedback from people as to whether
> > > > you're doing ok in a social situation. I'm unsure of how to go about
> > > > doing this, or how to leave it alone when I'm doing a good job. For
> > > > example I'm wondering if anyone might have some feedback on how I
> > > > participate in this forum. I wrote a message a little while back asking
> > > > if anyone would still want to hang out with me after the rant I gave, and
> > > > nobody replied. Should I chalk it up to nobody wanting to hang out with
> > > > me, or is something else going on here? I think that we often question
> > > > ourselves and whether or not we're ok in the eyes of others for no
> > > > reason; perhaps everyone is busy, perhaps nobody read the message,
> > > > perhaps a number of veriables other than my being awkward resulted in my
> > > > not getting a responce. This would have bothered me a while ago, as I
> > > > would obsess over whether or not people like me, however nowadays I'd
> > > > like to use this information (if any) to grow and move forward. Please
> > > > let me know any thoughts on this, positive or negative, because any
> > > > information is better than no information. C'mon, now, don't be shy.
> > > --
> > > Glen
> > > pringle31@fastmail.fm
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://www.fastmail.fm - Access your email from home and the web
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > --
> > Glen
> > pringle31@fastmail.fm
> >
> > --
> > http://www.fastmail.fm - I mean, what is it about a decent email
> > service?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> --
> Glen
> pringle31@fastmail.fm
>
> --
> http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and
> love email again
>
>
>
>
--
Glen
pringle31@fastmail.fm

--
http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and
love email again

Yeh the most frustrating thing i find is not being in control of whats
happening with my body. Even if i have no thoughts in my head that i
should be nervous in some situation sometimes my hands will start
shaking for no reason. This is very embarrassing in a job interview
where you may be offered a water or drink i had an experience once where
my hand was shaking so bad i spilled water all over the interviewers
desk (I didn't get that job). I try to avoid getting into these
situations by always refusing drinks etc as much as possible but again
last week during a client meeting everyone was giving a coffee during
the meeting and i got the shakes again. Im not confident I'll ever be
able to shake this but i think i can learn to work around it kind of
feel the fear and do it anyway.

Cheers
Glen

On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 13:20:22 -0400, "Sam Rau" <sam.rau@...> said:
> I know what you mean about that.  I used to be very peranoid about people
> thinking bad of me; i would say that in fact this boarder lined on
> psychosis.  At one time I even thought that my brother was an under-cover
> cop trying to bust me for something, because he hesitated to tell me that
> I smelled bad because I was sweating (I'm sure that I didn't).  You may
> not have had experiences like this, and I hope that nobody does, but I
> point this out to illustrate how strangely our brains work.
>
> I think that we will find evidence for what is going on.  For example if
> you feel anxious for some reason your mind will go out and find a reason
> for it, based on your beliefs and values etc.  I might get a feeling in
> my stomach and chalk it up to my not being liked by people (you know when
> you get anxious around new people etc) when it might mean that I'm
> excited about what might happen etc.  I've often found that I get really
> anxious before going to be with a bunch of my friends, however I can't
> find the reason for the anxiety other than "it's just there" until I
> start thinking and thinking and thinking about what it might be caused
> by; of course it's probably because I'm not doing something right, or am
> doing something wrong, or am otherwise doing something...  I think though
> that we often confuse feelings because we're not really good (at first)
> at identifying exactly what the feeling is and that this can lead to
> trouble.  Say I have butterflies in my stomach before I go to meet a
> bunch of friends.  The feeling doesn't really bother me until I start
> thinking about it and come up with a reason as to why I'm having it; it's
> only when I get a reason for why I "must" be having the feeling that I
> start to feel bad.  I have an interesting story about this sourt of
> thing.  I've found that when I'm anxious it is in fact that I'm a bit
> hungry.  I remember before a test one time I felt really strong feelings
> in my stomach which resulted in my thinking about the test and how I was
> going to mess it up good.  I then thought to myself "there's nothing you
> can do about it, so stop saying this stuff to yourself" and then the
> feeling changed.  It wasn't gone, but it felt more like I was hungry more
> than anything.  I told myself "when I do good on this test I'll go get
> some food" which allowed me to put asside the hunger for a little while
> as I knew I wasn't going to do anything about it at the time.  Maybe I'm
> not explaining this clearly, but I found that after I put the anger
> asside I was able to take the test no problem.  I still was a bit anxious
> about it but the feeling no longer had as much power over me, and I
> wasn't prompted to think constantly about how I might (or am or whatever)
> screw it up.  I hope that made sense; I'm still unwraveling it...
>
> My main point is that we have a lot of information about what the outer
> world is like, but not that much about what's going on inside of us.  We
> can be told a certain amount about what feelings are etc, but there's no
> way to teach what to expect internally.  For example you might describe
> how you're feeling right now, but even this is just a description of how
> it is for you; even if you said "I feel calm" or "I feel anxious" or
> whatever this is just a convenient label for a description and doesn't
> describe the real thing.  Budists would describe this as being a finger
> pointing at the moon, rather than the moon itself.  Perhaps this is why
> us "social missfits" have such problems, because we assume that we're the
> only ones who don't quite know what's going on inside our own boddies.  I
> would be willing to bet that most, if not all, people experience life in
> this manner of trial and error.  Sure some of us have had more experience
> and thus have learned more, but we're all escentially in the same boat.
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Glen
>   To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 3:06 AM
>   Subject: Re: [SocialFitnessForum] My last message.
>
>
>   It certainly sounds like your doing pretty well i think the more
>   comfortable you are at sharing in front of people the more people will
>   share with you.I kind of realized i need to stop waiting all the time
>   for people to initiate contact with me and i really need to take the
>   risk if im every going to change.For me talking in fount of groups has
>   always been something that is very hard but i am finally starting to
>   make some progress. Its hard when your physical reactions kick in for
>   me
>   this means i start sweating profusely. To the point i have beeds of
>   sweet coming from my forehead and i start to smell like I've been
>   working out at the gym for the last hour. It takes a lot of courage to
>   face up to those things when they happen and what you think about what
>   the other people are thinking of you. Eg when i try to talk to girls Im
>   sweat city not being an attractive guy it just one more mark against
>   you. That said the more I try the more desensitized i become but you do
>   have to be strong.
>
>   Cheers
>   Glen
>
>   On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 07:24:56 -0400, "Sam Rau" <sam.rau@...> said:
>   > I think that feedback is important, however just as important is how we
>   > process this internally; here I go again with the long-winded... :-) I
>   > think that all feedback is genuine, the only problem is when people
>   > aren't really genuine with themselves. Like you said people will want to
>   > be nice and won't be honest about a problem, but I find that I can get
>   > honest feedback if I want. For example the other night I was going back
>   > to my place for the night and talking to Sean about the girl I had just
>   > had a great conversation with. We had gone off into god and philosophy
>   > and all sourts of stuff but although we had a great conversation for some
>   > reason I didn't get her number. I thought about it at the time, but
>   > somehow it "just didn't happen". I said to Sean "I should've gotten her
>   > number; what the f*ck's wrong with me" to which he replied "hey, it's
>   > only the beginning of the school year". He knew that I was joking about
>   > something really being wrong with me, but I could tell that there was
>   > more than his reassurance by the tone of his voice. He sounded pretty
>   > passionate about it (his voice raised a bit and he sounded like he really
>   > meant it) as if he were saying "don't beat yourself up for it, because
>   > there are plenty of opportunities, and if you act then like you did
>   > tonight you'll do fine". Of course I'm assuming all of this and I'm not
>   > sure exactly why he said it this way (or if anything was *really*
>   > different) but I thinkk that nevertheless there was some feedback here.
>   >
>   > I think that the more clear we are about what we want the more likely we
>   > are to get it. This extends to everything in life I believe, but you can
>   > probably see how we can apply this to feedback and social situations. If
>   > I focus on learning as much as I can from situations for example I don't
>   > feel awkward about the situation as I'm too busy just soaking everything
>   > in. I will say that a few times Yesterday I felt a bit awkward talking
>   > to some professors and other students in the classes, but since I was
>   > focused on learning this didn't bother me that much. In fact, despite
>   > this email getting a bit long, I'd like to tell a story about this.
>   >
>   > I was in my "psychology in the schools" class (the professors are kind of
>   > wind bags, but still cool) and one of the guys was trying to make idle
>   > conversation to get the class going. Incidentally I could tell that he
>   > was strougling a bit, as he would faulter a lot and seemed a bit nervous;
>   > I wonder if this was me? Anyway he said something about there only being
>   > five males in the class with the rest being females, and asked what we
>   > thought about that ratio. I said "that ratio sounds perfect if you ask
>   > me" which made everyone laugh, but then one of the professors said "well
>   > nobody asked you" which made people laugh harder. I felt a bit weird as
>   > I didn't quite know what to make of that, but I just laughed along with
>   > them (and actually found it funny) and as a result continued to enjoy my
>   > time (as much as I can enjoy that three-hour class). I went up to the
>   > professors after class and talked with them a bit, and they seemed really
>   > cool and I imagine that they felt the same as I did. At any rate, that's
>   > my story.
>   > ----- Original Message -----
>   > From: Glen
>   > To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
>   > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 8:31 PM
>   > Subject: Re: [SocialFitnessForum] My last message.
>   >
>   >
>   > I guess one of the problems with email and forums is that sometimes
>   > they
>   > are not the best mechanism to receive feedback or even judge what a
>   > person might be thinking of you etc. Its very one sided and there is no
>   > way in which to clarify the meaning of anything if you have a tendency
>   > to think people will reject you then this is where you thoughts can
>   > often fall.
>   >
>   > The best way is to go out and meet the problem head on its very hard
>   > sometimes and honestly i have struggled to find people who will give
>   > you
>   > genuine feedback most people will be nice to you but if i have a
>   > problem
>   > i want to know so i can work on fixing it. On the other hand it can be
>   > very hard to give and take feedback that is critcal because we all tend
>   > to take life to seriously. eg if you hear something negative about
>   > yourself even said in a positive way it can lower you self esteem.
>   >
>   > I think you need to be careful not to flood people with information
>   > everybody has different spans of attention an important message can get
>   > lost in a monologue. To be honest i rarely ever read a large email
>   > (even
>   > at work) I read the first few paragraphs and may the last to work out
>   > if
>   > there is any important information. If i need to take action on
>   > something then i might read the entire message otherwise I find i get
>   > so
>   > many other emails I find it hard to give something that long a slice of
>   > time.
>   >
>   > Cheers
>   > Glen
>   >
>   > On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 08:35:57 -0400, "Sam Rau" <sam.rau@...> said:
>   > > I totally aggree with this. I think that a lot of times we perceive
>   > > people to be rejecting us when this really isn't the case. I would hope
>   > > that I give good feedback here, and I would hope that I act in such a
>   > > manner that people don't hesitate to give me feedback. I think that it's
>   > > important to just let feedback be what it is; even if my not getting
>   > > replies were a part of the feedback, I have no way of knowing exactly
>   > > what that feedback is or what it means for me. There is feedback all
>   > > around us, but we only perceive that which is in line with what we
>   > > already believe to be true. If I'm a shy person I might perceive people
>   > > as not liking me just because there's a group talking and they don't all
>   > > jump up and introduce themselves. But maybe a confident person would
>   > > have the same external feedback but interpret it as the group of people
>   > > are just tight-knit or something like that. My point is that, although
>   > > two people may perceive the same sensory information, their experiences
>   > > are individual.
>   > >
>   > > I'm just wondering how I can get feedback from people. Honestly I don't
>   > > think that I really need it, in that I'm a horrible communicator who
>   > > really needs to tone it down a bit, but I'm really interested in
learning
>   > > and understanding people. I think that this skill is not only crucial
>   > > for social interactions and feeling good etc, but it's important for
>   > > everything we do.
>   > > ----- Original Message -----
>   > > From: Glen
>   > > To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
>   > > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 12:28 AM
>   > > Subject: Re: [SocialFitnessForum] My last message.
>   > >
>   > >
>   > > Hi Sam,
>   > >
>   > > Like a lot of us it sounds like you might be a bit over sensitive to
>   > > feedback. God knows i am I'm constantly evaluating the feedback I
>   > > receive from people for good and bad signals. Being someone who tends
>   > > to err on the side of negativity this just makes things harder. But its
>   > > is hard one of the basic human needs i think is to be recognized when
>   > > that doesn't happen it tends to bring you down although i have noticed
>   > > the people that i admire communication wise it doesn't seem to affect
>   > > them as much.
>   > >
>   > > I think sometimes it comes down to risk I'll risk saying something or
>   > > trying to talk to someone but i shouldn't expect a good result,
>   > > hopefully the more i do it the less fear I'll have taking those risks
>   > > and maybe I'll get an okay result some of the time. But I'll be okay
>   > > when there is no result or a negative one. I think the thing with
>   > > rejection is that the fear of rejection is much worse then the
>   > > experience.
>   > >
>   > > I think most people appreciate the feedback you give i certainly do.
>   > >
>   > > Cheers
>   > > Glen
>   > >
>   > > On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 16:31:44 -0400, "Sam Rau" <sam.rau@...> said:
>   > > > I'm interested in how you guys get feedback from people as to whether
>   > > > you're doing ok in a social situation. I'm unsure of how to go about
>   > > > doing this, or how to leave it alone when I'm doing a good job. For
>   > > > example I'm wondering if anyone might have some feedback on how I
>   > > > participate in this forum. I wrote a message a little while back
asking
>   > > > if anyone would still want to hang out with me after the rant I gave,
and
>   > > > nobody replied. Should I chalk it up to nobody wanting to hang out
with
>   > > > me, or is something else going on here? I think that we often question
>   > > > ourselves and whether or not we're ok in the eyes of others for no
>   > > > reason; perhaps everyone is busy, perhaps nobody read the message,
>   > > > perhaps a number of veriables other than my being awkward resulted in
my
>   > > > not getting a responce. This would have bothered me a while ago, as I
>   > > > would obsess over whether or not people like me, however nowadays I'd
>   > > > like to use this information (if any) to grow and move forward. Please
>   > > > let me know any thoughts on this, positive or negative, because any
>   > > > information is better than no information. C'mon, now, don't be shy.
>   > > --
>   > > Glen
>   > > pringle31@...
>   > >
>   > > --
>   > > http://www.fastmail.fm - Access your email from home and the web
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > --
>   > Glen
>   > pringle31@...
>   >
>   > --
>   > http://www.fastmail.fm - I mean, what is it about a decent email
>   > service?
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   --
>   Glen
>   pringle31@...
>
>   --
>   http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and
>   love email again
>
>
>
>
--
   Glen
   pringle31@...

--
http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and
                           love email again

----- Original Message -----

From: Glen

To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 3:06 AM

Subject: Re: [SocialFitnessForum] My last message.

It certainly sounds like your doing pretty well i think the more
comfortable you are at sharing in front of people the more people will
share with you.I kind of realized i need to stop waiting all the time
for people to initiate contact with me and i really need to take the
risk if im every going to change.For me talking in fount of groups has
always been something that is very hard but i am finally starting to
make some progress. Its hard when your physical reactions kick in for me
this means i start sweating profusely. To the point i have beeds of
sweet coming from my forehead and i start to smell like I've been
working out at the gym for the last hour. It takes a lot of courage to
face up to those things when they happen and what you think about what
the other people are thinking of you. Eg when i try to talk to girls Im
sweat city not being an attractive guy it just one more mark against
you. That said the more I try the more desensitized i become but you do
have to be strong.

Cheers
Glen

On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 07:24:56 -0400, "Sam Rau" <sam.rau@wmich.edu> said:
> I think that feedback is important, however just as important is how we
> process this internally; here I go again with the long-winded... :-) I
> think that all feedback is genuine, the only problem is when people
> aren't really genuine with themselves. Like you said people will want to
> be nice and won't be honest about a problem, but I find that I can get
> honest feedback if I want. For example the other night I was going back
> to my place for the night and talking to Sean about the girl I had just
> had a great conversation with. We had gone off into god and philosophy
> and all sourts of stuff but although we had a great conversation for some
> reason I didn't get her number. I thought about it at the time, but
> somehow it "just didn't happen". I said to Sean "I should've gotten her
> number; what the f*ck's wrong with me" to which he replied "hey, it's
> only the beginning of the school year". He knew that I was joking about
> something really being wrong with me, but I could tell that there was
> more than his reassurance by the tone of his voice. He sounded pretty
> passionate about it (his voice raised a bit and he sounded like he really
> meant it) as if he were saying "don't beat yourself up for it, because
> there are plenty of opportunities, and if you act then like you did
> tonight you'll do fine". Of course I'm assuming all of this and I'm not
> sure exactly why he said it this way (or if anything was *really*
> different) but I thinkk that nevertheless there was some feedback here.
>
> I think that the more clear we are about what we want the more likely we
> are to get it. This extends to everything in life I believe, but you can
> probably see how we can apply this to feedback and social situations. If
> I focus on learning as much as I can from situations for example I don't
> feel awkward about the situation as I'm too busy just soaking everything
> in. I will say that a few times Yesterday I felt a bit awkward talking
> to some professors and other students in the classes, but since I was
> focused on learning this didn't bother me that much. In fact, despite
> this email getting a bit long, I'd like to tell a story about this.
>
> I was in my "psychology in the schools" class (the professors are kind of
> wind bags, but still cool) and one of the guys was trying to make idle
> conversation to get the class going. Incidentally I could tell that he
> was strougling a bit, as he would faulter a lot and seemed a bit nervous;
> I wonder if this was me? Anyway he said something about there only being
> five males in the class with the rest being females, and asked what we
> thought about that ratio. I said "that ratio sounds perfect if you ask
> me" which made everyone laugh, but then one of the professors said "well
> nobody asked you" which made people laugh harder. I felt a bit weird as
> I didn't quite know what to make of that, but I just laughed along with
> them (and actually found it funny) and as a result continued to enjoy my
> time (as much as I can enjoy that three-hour class). I went up to the
> professors after class and talked with them a bit, and they seemed really
> cool and I imagine that they felt the same as I did. At any rate, that's
> my story.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Glen
> To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 8:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [SocialFitnessForum] My last message.
>
>
> I guess one of the problems with email and forums is that sometimes
> they
> are not the best mechanism to receive feedback or even judge what a
> person might be thinking of you etc. Its very one sided and there is no
> way in which to clarify the meaning of anything if you have a tendency
> to think people will reject you then this is where you thoughts can
> often fall.
>
> The best way is to go out and meet the problem head on its very hard
> sometimes and honestly i have struggled to find people who will give
> you
> genuine feedback most people will be nice to you but if i have a
> problem
> i want to know so i can work on fixing it. On the other hand it can be
> very hard to give and take feedback that is critcal because we all tend
> to take life to seriously. eg if you hear something negative about
> yourself even said in a positive way it can lower you self esteem.
>
> I think you need to be careful not to flood people with information
> everybody has different spans of attention an important message can get
> lost in a monologue. To be honest i rarely ever read a large email
> (even
> at work) I read the first few paragraphs and may the last to work out
> if
> there is any important information. If i need to take action on
> something then i might read the entire message otherwise I find i get
> so
> many other emails I find it hard to give something that long a slice of
> time.
>
> Cheers
> Glen
>
> On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 08:35:57 -0400, "Sam Rau" <sam.rau@wmich.edu> said:
> > I totally aggree with this. I think that a lot of times we perceive
> > people to be rejecting us when this really isn't the case. I would hope
> > that I give good feedback here, and I would hope that I act in such a
> > manner that people don't hesitate to give me feedback. I think that it's
> > important to just let feedback be what it is; even if my not getting
> > replies were a part of the feedback, I have no way of knowing exactly
> > what that feedback is or what it means for me. There is feedback all
> > around us, but we only perceive that which is in line with what we
> > already believe to be true. If I'm a shy person I might perceive people
> > as not liking me just because there's a group talking and they don't all
> > jump up and introduce themselves. But maybe a confident person would
> > have the same external feedback but interpret it as the group of people
> > are just tight-knit or something like that. My point is that, although
> > two people may perceive the same sensory information, their experiences
> > are individual.
> >
> > I'm just wondering how I can get feedback from people. Honestly I don't
> > think that I really need it, in that I'm a horrible communicator who
> > really needs to tone it down a bit, but I'm really interested in learning
> > and understanding people. I think that this skill is not only crucial
> > for social interactions and feeling good etc, but it's important for
> > everything we do.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Glen
> > To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 12:28 AM
> > Subject: Re: [SocialFitnessForum] My last message.
> >
> >
> > Hi Sam,
> >
> > Like a lot of us it sounds like you might be a bit over sensitive to
> > feedback. God knows i am I'm constantly evaluating the feedback I
> > receive from people for good and bad signals. Being someone who tends
> > to err on the side of negativity this just makes things harder. But its
> > is hard one of the basic human needs i think is to be recognized when
> > that doesn't happen it tends to bring you down although i have noticed
> > the people that i admire communication wise it doesn't seem to affect
> > them as much.
> >
> > I think sometimes it comes down to risk I'll risk saying something or
> > trying to talk to someone but i shouldn't expect a good result,
> > hopefully the more i do it the less fear I'll have taking those risks
> > and maybe I'll get an okay result some of the time. But I'll be okay
> > when there is no result or a negative one. I think the thing with
> > rejection is that the fear of rejection is much worse then the
> > experience.
> >
> > I think most people appreciate the feedback you give i certainly do.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Glen
> >
> > On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 16:31:44 -0400, "Sam Rau" <sam.rau@wmich.edu> said:
> > > I'm interested in how you guys get feedback from people as to whether
> > > you're doing ok in a social situation. I'm unsure of how to go about
> > > doing this, or how to leave it alone when I'm doing a good job. For
> > > example I'm wondering if anyone might have some feedback on how I
> > > participate in this forum. I wrote a message a little while back asking
> > > if anyone would still want to hang out with me after the rant I gave, and
> > > nobody replied. Should I chalk it up to nobody wanting to hang out with
> > > me, or is something else going on here? I think that we often question
> > > ourselves and whether or not we're ok in the eyes of others for no
> > > reason; perhaps everyone is busy, perhaps nobody read the message,
> > > perhaps a number of veriables other than my being awkward resulted in my
> > > not getting a responce. This would have bothered me a while ago, as I
> > > would obsess over whether or not people like me, however nowadays I'd
> > > like to use this information (if any) to grow and move forward. Please
> > > let me know any thoughts on this, positive or negative, because any
> > > information is better than no information. C'mon, now, don't be shy.
> > --
> > Glen
> > pringle31@fastmail.fm
> >
> > --
> > http://www.fastmail.fm - Access your email from home and the web
> >
> >
> >
> >
> --
> Glen
> pringle31@fastmail.fm
>
> --
> http://www.fastmail.fm - I mean, what is it about a decent email
> service?
>
>
>
>
--
Glen
pringle31@fastmail.fm

--
http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and
love email again

It certainly sounds like your doing pretty well i think the more
comfortable you are at sharing in front of people the more people will
share with you.I kind of realized i need to stop waiting all the time
for people to initiate contact with me and i really need to take the
risk if im every going to change.For me talking in fount of groups has
always been something that is very hard but i am finally starting to
make some progress. Its hard when your physical reactions kick in for me
this means i start sweating profusely. To the point i have beeds of
sweet coming from my forehead and i start to smell like I've been
working out at the gym for the last hour. It takes a lot of courage to
face up to those things when they happen and what you think about what
the other people are thinking of you. Eg when i try to talk to girls Im
sweat city not being an attractive guy it just one more mark against
you. That said the more I try the more desensitized i become but you do
have to be strong.

Cheers
Glen


On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 07:24:56 -0400, "Sam Rau" <sam.rau@...> said:
> I think that feedback is important, however just as important is how we
> process this internally; here I go again with the long-winded... :-)  I
> think that all feedback is genuine, the only problem is when people
> aren't really genuine with themselves.  Like you said people will want to
> be nice and won't be honest about a problem, but I find that I can get
> honest feedback if I want.  For example the other night I was going back
> to my place for the night and talking to Sean about the girl I had just
> had a great conversation with.  We had gone off into god and philosophy
> and all sourts of stuff but although we had a great conversation for some
> reason I didn't get her number.  I thought about it at the time, but
> somehow it "just didn't happen".  I said to Sean "I should've gotten her
> number; what the f*ck's wrong with me" to which he replied "hey, it's
> only the beginning of the school year".  He knew that I was joking about
> something really being wrong with me, but I could tell that there was
> more than his reassurance by the tone of his voice.  He sounded pretty
> passionate about it (his voice raised a bit and he sounded like he really
> meant it) as if he were saying "don't beat yourself up for it, because
> there are plenty of opportunities, and if you act then like you did
> tonight you'll do fine".  Of course I'm assuming all of this and I'm not
> sure exactly why he said it this way (or if anything was *really*
> different) but I thinkk that nevertheless there was some feedback here.
>
> I think that the more clear we are about what we want the more likely we
> are to get it.  This extends to everything in life I believe, but you can
> probably see how we can apply this to feedback and social situations.  If
> I focus on learning as much as I can from situations for example I don't
> feel awkward about the situation as I'm too busy just soaking everything
> in.  I will say that a few times Yesterday I felt a bit awkward talking
> to some professors and other students in the classes, but since I was
> focused on learning this didn't bother me that much.  In fact, despite
> this email getting a bit long, I'd like to tell a story about this.
>
> I was in my "psychology in the schools" class (the professors are kind of
> wind bags, but still cool) and one of the guys was trying to make idle
> conversation to get the class going.  Incidentally I could tell that he
> was strougling a bit, as he would faulter a lot and seemed a bit nervous;
> I wonder if this was me?  Anyway he said something about there only being
> five males in the class with the rest being females, and asked what we
> thought about that ratio.  I said "that ratio sounds perfect if you ask
> me" which made everyone laugh, but then one of the professors said "well
> nobody asked you" which made people laugh harder.  I felt a bit weird as
> I didn't quite know what to make of that, but I just laughed along with
> them (and actually found it funny) and as a result continued to enjoy my
> time (as much as I can enjoy that three-hour class).  I went up to the
> professors after class and talked with them a bit, and they seemed really
> cool and I imagine that they felt the same as I did.  At any rate, that's
> my story.
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Glen
>   To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 8:31 PM
>   Subject: Re: [SocialFitnessForum] My last message.
>
>
>   I guess one of the problems with email and forums is that sometimes
>   they
>   are not the best mechanism to receive feedback or even judge what a
>   person might be thinking of you etc. Its very one sided and there is no
>   way in which to clarify the meaning of anything if you have a tendency
>   to think people will reject you then this is where you thoughts can
>   often fall.
>
>   The best way is to go out and meet the problem head on its very hard
>   sometimes and honestly i have struggled to find people who will give
>   you
>   genuine feedback most people will be nice to you but if i have a
>   problem
>   i want to know so i can work on fixing it. On the other hand it can be
>   very hard to give and take feedback that is critcal because we all tend
>   to take life to seriously. eg if you hear something negative about
>   yourself even said in a positive way it can lower you self esteem.
>
>   I think you need to be careful not to flood people with information
>   everybody has different spans of attention an important message can get
>   lost in a monologue. To be honest i rarely ever read a large email
>   (even
>   at work) I read the first few paragraphs and may the last to work out
>   if
>   there is any important information. If i need to take action on
>   something then i might read the entire message otherwise I find i get
>   so
>   many other emails I find it hard to give something that long a slice of
>   time.
>
>   Cheers
>   Glen
>
>   On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 08:35:57 -0400, "Sam Rau" <sam.rau@...> said:
>   > I totally aggree with this. I think that a lot of times we perceive
>   > people to be rejecting us when this really isn't the case. I would hope
>   > that I give good feedback here, and I would hope that I act in such a
>   > manner that people don't hesitate to give me feedback. I think that it's
>   > important to just let feedback be what it is; even if my not getting
>   > replies were a part of the feedback, I have no way of knowing exactly
>   > what that feedback is or what it means for me. There is feedback all
>   > around us, but we only perceive that which is in line with what we
>   > already believe to be true. If I'm a shy person I might perceive people
>   > as not liking me just because there's a group talking and they don't all
>   > jump up and introduce themselves. But maybe a confident person would
>   > have the same external feedback but interpret it as the group of people
>   > are just tight-knit or something like that. My point is that, although
>   > two people may perceive the same sensory information, their experiences
>   > are individual.
>   >
>   > I'm just wondering how I can get feedback from people. Honestly I don't
>   > think that I really need it, in that I'm a horrible communicator who
>   > really needs to tone it down a bit, but I'm really interested in learning
>   > and understanding people. I think that this skill is not only crucial
>   > for social interactions and feeling good etc, but it's important for
>   > everything we do.
>   > ----- Original Message -----
>   > From: Glen
>   > To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
>   > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 12:28 AM
>   > Subject: Re: [SocialFitnessForum] My last message.
>   >
>   >
>   > Hi Sam,
>   >
>   > Like a lot of us it sounds like you might be a bit over sensitive to
>   > feedback. God knows i am I'm constantly evaluating the feedback I
>   > receive from people for good and bad signals. Being someone who tends
>   > to err on the side of negativity this just makes things harder. But its
>   > is hard one of the basic human needs i think is to be recognized when
>   > that doesn't happen it tends to bring you down although i have noticed
>   > the people that i admire communication wise it doesn't seem to affect
>   > them as much.
>   >
>   > I think sometimes it comes down to risk I'll risk saying something or
>   > trying to talk to someone but i shouldn't expect a good result,
>   > hopefully the more i do it the less fear I'll have taking those risks
>   > and maybe I'll get an okay result some of the time. But I'll be okay
>   > when there is no result or a negative one. I think the thing with
>   > rejection is that the fear of rejection is much worse then the
>   > experience.
>   >
>   > I think most people appreciate the feedback you give i certainly do.
>   >
>   > Cheers
>   > Glen
>   >
>   > On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 16:31:44 -0400, "Sam Rau" <sam.rau@...> said:
>   > > I'm interested in how you guys get feedback from people as to whether
>   > > you're doing ok in a social situation. I'm unsure of how to go about
>   > > doing this, or how to leave it alone when I'm doing a good job. For
>   > > example I'm wondering if anyone might have some feedback on how I
>   > > participate in this forum. I wrote a message a little while back asking
>   > > if anyone would still want to hang out with me after the rant I gave,
and
>   > > nobody replied. Should I chalk it up to nobody wanting to hang out with
>   > > me, or is something else going on here? I think that we often question
>   > > ourselves and whether or not we're ok in the eyes of others for no
>   > > reason; perhaps everyone is busy, perhaps nobody read the message,
>   > > perhaps a number of veriables other than my being awkward resulted in my
>   > > not getting a responce. This would have bothered me a while ago, as I
>   > > would obsess over whether or not people like me, however nowadays I'd
>   > > like to use this information (if any) to grow and move forward. Please
>   > > let me know any thoughts on this, positive or negative, because any
>   > > information is better than no information. C'mon, now, don't be shy.
>   > --
>   > Glen
>   > pringle31@...
>   >
>   > --
>   > http://www.fastmail.fm - Access your email from home and the web
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   --
>   Glen
>   pringle31@...
>
>   --
>   http://www.fastmail.fm - I mean, what is it about a decent email
>   service?
>
>
>
>
--
   Glen
   pringle31@...

--
http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and
                           love email again

----- Original Message -----

From: Glen

To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 8:31 PM

Subject: Re: [SocialFitnessForum] My last message.

I guess one of the problems with email and forums is that sometimes they
are not the best mechanism to receive feedback or even judge what a
person might be thinking of you etc. Its very one sided and there is no
way in which to clarify the meaning of anything if you have a tendency
to think people will reject you then this is where you thoughts can
often fall.

The best way is to go out and meet the problem head on its very hard
sometimes and honestly i have struggled to find people who will give you
genuine feedback most people will be nice to you but if i have a problem
i want to know so i can work on fixing it. On the other hand it can be
very hard to give and take feedback that is critcal because we all tend
to take life to seriously. eg if you hear something negative about
yourself even said in a positive way it can lower you self esteem.

I think you need to be careful not to flood people with information
everybody has different spans of attention an important message can get
lost in a monologue. To be honest i rarely ever read a large email (even
at work) I read the first few paragraphs and may the last to work out if
there is any important information. If i need to take action on
something then i might read the entire message otherwise I find i get so
many other emails I find it hard to give something that long a slice of
time.

Cheers
Glen

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 08:35:57 -0400, "Sam Rau" <sam.rau@wmich.edu> said:
> I totally aggree with this. I think that a lot of times we perceive
> people to be rejecting us when this really isn't the case. I would hope
> that I give good feedback here, and I would hope that I act in such a
> manner that people don't hesitate to give me feedback. I think that it's
> important to just let feedback be what it is; even if my not getting
> replies were a part of the feedback, I have no way of knowing exactly
> what that feedback is or what it means for me. There is feedback all
> around us, but we only perceive that which is in line with what we
> already believe to be true. If I'm a shy person I might perceive people
> as not liking me just because there's a group talking and they don't all
> jump up and introduce themselves. But maybe a confident person would
> have the same external feedback but interpret it as the group of people
> are just tight-knit or something like that. My point is that, although
> two people may perceive the same sensory information, their experiences
> are individual.
>
> I'm just wondering how I can get feedback from people. Honestly I don't
> think that I really need it, in that I'm a horrible communicator who
> really needs to tone it down a bit, but I'm really interested in learning
> and understanding people. I think that this skill is not only crucial
> for social interactions and feeling good etc, but it's important for
> everything we do.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Glen
> To: SocialFitnessForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 12:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [SocialFitnessForum] My last message.
>
>
> Hi Sam,
>
> Like a lot of us it sounds like you might be a bit over sensitive to
> feedback. God knows i am I'm constantly evaluating the feedback I
> receive from people for good and bad signals. Being someone who tends
> to err on the side of negativity this just makes things harder. But its
> is hard one of the basic human needs i think is to be recognized when
> that doesn't happen it tends to bring you down although i have noticed
> the people that i admire communication wise it doesn't seem to affect
> them as much.
>
> I think sometimes it comes down to risk I'll risk saying something or
> trying to talk to someone but i shouldn't expect a good result,
> hopefully the more i do it the less fear I'll have taking those risks
> and maybe I'll get an okay result some of the time. But I'll be okay
> when there is no result or a negative one. I think the thing with
> rejection is that the fear of rejection is much worse then the
> experience.
>
> I think most people appreciate the feedback you give i certainly do.
>
> Cheers
> Glen
>
> On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 16:31:44 -0400, "Sam Rau" <sam.rau@wmich.edu> said:
> > I'm interested in how you guys get feedback from people as to whether
> > you're doing ok in a social situation. I'm unsure of how to go about
> > doing this, or how to leave it alone when I'm doing a good job. For
> > example I'm wondering if anyone might have some feedback on how I
> > participate in this forum. I wrote a message a little while back asking
> > if anyone would still want to hang out with me after the rant I gave, and
> > nobody replied. Should I chalk it up to nobody wanting to hang out with
> > me, or is something else going on here? I think that we often question
> > ourselves and whether or not we're ok in the eyes of others for no
> > reason; perhaps everyone is busy, perhaps nobody read the message,
> > perhaps a number of veriables other than my being awkward resulted in my
> > not getting a responce. This would have bothered me a while ago, as I
> > would obsess over whether or not people like me, however nowadays I'd
> > like to use this information (if any) to grow and move forward. Please
> > let me know any thoughts on this, positive or negative, because any
> > information is better than no information. C'mon, now, don't be shy.
> --
> Glen
> pringle31@fastmail.fm
>
> --
> http://www.fastmail.fm - Access your email from home and the web
>
>
>
>
--
Glen
pringle31@fastmail.fm

--
http://www.fastmail.fm - I mean, what is it about a decent email service?