And has it stopped people from murdering or stealing?
To change the world, and behavior, you have to change people.
To stop murder, theft, adultry, and other problems, you have to work with people
spirituality and change them from within.


Stephen Kliewer. D.Min.
Assistant Professor
Department of Family Medicine
Oregon Health and Science University

Phone: 541-426-4524
Cell: 541-398-0547
FAX 541-426-3035


Email: kliewers@...
>>> colcol02@... 12/28/05 3:10 PM >>>
Morality is legislated everywhere, and always has been. Murder and thievery are
both moral issues, and have been legislated agianst since legislation has
existed.


"Stephen Kliewer" <kliewers@...> wrote:

>Thanks so much for your response.
>I think you hit on a critical question. Can one legislate morality?
>Perhaps an additional question might be whether the ethical causes championed
by some in the Christian community are the proper ones. I personally think it
is far more important to look at how we treat the poor and vulnerable in our
midst than most any thing else, and yet this is an issue being neglected by many
of those in the Christian world creating the most noise.
>
>SK
>
>Stephen Kliewer. D.Min.
>Assistant Professor
>Department of Family Medicine
>Oregon Health and Science University
>
>Phone: 541-426-4524
>Cell: 541-398-0547
>FAX 541-426-3035
>
>
>Email: kliewers@...
>>>> cal.wilson@... 12/27/05 9:38 PM >>>
>Steve K.
>
>I very much appreciated your discussion of fundamentalism, as it does describe
several issues that are frightening to many today; most particularly the "first"
concern regarding the role of religion in society, and that "specific credal and
ethical dictates derived from scripture be publicly recognized and legally
enforced". Having grown up in a family with a long history of fundamentalist
Christianity, I find this insistence on the "legal enforcement of scriptural
dictates" interesting. My grandfather taught that the political-secular world
(ie, outside of the church) was so far from understanding God's ways that the
only solution was to avoid politics. He voted only rarely, but devoted himself
to the church, to the poor in his sphere of influence, and to earnest personal
discussions of spiritual issues. Many in his generation felt that society could
only be changed by a spiritual transformation of the individual hearts of most
of that society's members, not by legislat
ing behavior. The failure of the grand experiment with Prohibition was often
mentioned in this regard.
>
>Given this bit of personal history, I find it interesting that the current
descendents of these fundamentalists are now flexing their political muscle in
the public arena, with seemingly little regard for the necessary changes in the
hearts and attitudes of the community that would substantiate, validate, and
sustain the values they cherish. A cup of cold water, a visit to the hospital,
a weekly turn at a homeless shelter by a respected few in each community would
do a lot more to mold our society's cultural norms and spiritual values than a
blizzard of legislative initiatives.
>
>Having spent 5 years in Jordan, I find that there are similar parallels in
Islam. While a minority of "fundamentalist Muslims" advocate legislated or even
forced adherence to the dictates of the Q'uran, most Muslims are quietly trying
to observe the five pillars of Islam and teach their children to do the same.
>
>Dr. Calvin Wilson
>Director - Center for Global Health
>University of Colorado Denver and Health Sciences Center
>Phone - 303-986-0338
>Mobile - 720-299-3790
>Email - cal.wilson@...
>
>________________________________
>
>From: STFM-Spirituality@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Stephen Kliewer
>Sent: Tue 12/27/2005 12:06 PM
>To: SRoskos@...; STFM-Spirituality@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [STFM-Spirituality] (unknown)
>
>
>
>Steven
>Let me respond to your questions
>
>Question One: What is GWISH
>
>GWISH is the George Washington Institute on Spirituality and Health. It has
been heavily funded by the Templeton Foundation, and is the group that offers
the curricular awards. It is can be found at GWISH.ORG
>
>Question Two: What is religious fundamentalism exactly? Isn't this term sort
of derogatory regarding some people's chosen spirituality?
>
>You are correct in noting that the term fundamentalism has negative
connotations for many. It is a word that carriers with it some baggage. One
can hardly read a weekly news magazine without encountering the term
`fundamentalist' with reference to some group active on the world stage. In
fact, the popularity of the term is part of the problem.
>
>I wish I had a better term to use.
>
>Bruce Lawrence in his book, Defenders of God: The Fundamentalist Revolt Against
the Modern Age defines fundamentalism as " the affirmation of religious
authority as holistic and absolute, admitting of neither criticism nor
reduction; it is expressed through the collective demand that specific creedal
and ethical dictates derived from scripture be publicly recognized and legally
enforced ."
>
>The American Academy of Arts and Sciences funded a multiyear project that
brought scholars from around the world together to study Fundamentalism.
Ultimately they produced 5 volumes containing almost 8,000 pages of material.
Admitting some difficulty with the term, the project opts to use it anyway for a
variety of reasons. Essentially, they argue that it is commonly accepted, here
to stay, and the best term anyone can come up with for this phenomena. At one
point in the study the researchers list 5 ideological characteristics and 4
organizational characteristics of fundamentalism. The Five ideological
characteristics are:
>*fundamentalists are concerned "first" with the erosion of religion and its
proper role in society;
>*fundamentalism is selective of their tradition and what part of modernity they
accept or choose to react against;
>*they embrace some form of Manicheanism (dualism);
>*fundamentalists stress absolutism and inerrancy in their sources of
revelation; and
>*they opt for some form of Millennialism or Messianism.
>
>The organizational characteristics include:
>*an elect or chosen membership;
>*sharp group boundaries;
>*charismatic authoritarian leaders; and
>*mandated behavioral requirements.
>
>Jeffrey K. Hadden and Anson Shupe, in their work "Secularization and
Fundamentalism Reconsidered" offer this definition, " a proclamation of
reclaimed authority over a sacred tradition which is to be reinstated as an
antidote for a society that has strayed from its cultural moorings."
>
>Obviously people respond to the dynamics illustrated in all of the above
descriptions differently. Some like it, some find it frightening, and others
are very judgemental of such a stance. People will accept such a stance with
respect to their own faith system and find it appalling in another faith system.
>
>I am not trying to make a judgement about it. It simply is, and it is having a
powerful impact on our world. In my part of the world, it has made many of
those who were ambivelant about religions very negative. It has led to
increased polarization, even among those who are from the same system. There
may be some benefits as well. It has certainly brought some important issues
into public awareness and created much dialouge.
>
>Thinking back over your response, I am trying to think of a term that carries
less baggage, but I find it difficult. If I talk about religious radicalism, I
think there is still some degree of judgement. The advantage of that kind of
term is that it may lead to a broader understanding of the issue. Since
fundamentalism can be seen as a specific branch, normally conservative, of a
religion. If we think about people who have "radical" views, there may be an
ability to think of people on both ends of the theological spectrum. Some of
those on the liberal end of the spectrum can be ideologically radically, rigid,
and judgemental.
>
>So you raise a very good issue.
>Perhaps I'll rephrase the question this way...
>We are seeing an increase in religious intensity, and spiritual and/or
religious perspectives are being applied culturally, even politically - there
are attempts to resacralize public life. How does this impact efforts to
develop curriculum? Does it help, or hinder? Does the impact vary in different
regions of the country (it has made it harder in Oregon), and how does it impact
efforts to integrated healthcare and spirituality?
>
>Steve K.
>
>In reply to ...
>Steven E. Roskos, MD
>
>Department of Family Medicine
>
>University of Tennessee - Knoxville
>
>sroskos@...
>
>865-544-9352, ext. 5059
>
>Fax: 865-544-6532
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: Stephen Kliewer [mailto:kliewers@...]
>Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 11:45 PM
>To: STFM-Spirituality@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [STFM-Spirituality] (unknown)
>
>
>
>Greetings
>
>Just to let you know, John Saulz, MD, Chair of Family Medicine at Oregon =
>Health Science University and I have finally finished out book on =
>Healthcare and Spirituality. I invite you all to take a look at it on =
>Amazon.com.
>
>It was published in England by Radcliffe Medical Press, and is on its way =
>to US warehouses now. Hope you find it useful.
>
>http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1857756223/qid=3D1135653337/sr=3D8-1/ref=
><http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1857756223/qid=3D1135653337/sr=3D8-1/ref=>
>
>=3Dsr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-9389205-0697405?n=3D507846&s=3Dbooks&v=3Dglance
>
>Also, GWISH will soon be sending information about its latest round of =
>curricular awards. As a past award winner for both predoc and graduate I =
>encourage you to look into this program. It is amazing how open administra=
>tions can be when there is a little money attached.
>
>There are some changes to the program you may find intriguing.
>
>I would encourage any of you, if you run across resources you find useful, =
>to post them on the listserve. Also let us know of events you think =
>people might find of interest.
>
>Finally, I'd like to end with a question that I would appreciate thoughts =
>around. We are finding, Ithink a resurgence of religious fundamentalism. =
>Has this impacted efforts to develop curricular elements? Does this =
>affect the intergration of healthcare and spirituality?
>
>Would love to hear your thoughts!
>
>STEVE
>
>
>
>Stephen Kliewer. D.Min.
>Assistant Professor
>Department of Family Medicine
>Oregon Health and Science University
>
>Phone: 541-426-4524
>Cell: 541-398-0547
>FAX 541-426-3035
>
>
>Email: kliewers@...
>
>
>
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>Stephen Kliewer. D.Min.
>Assistant Professor
>Department of Family Medicine
>Oregon Health and Science University
>
>Phone: 541-426-4524
>Cell: 541-398-0547
>FAX 541-426-3035
>
>
>Email: kliewers@...
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