Ellis,

The pancreas does produce insulin when one takes metfomin, but
to get the same results it produces less insulin. Over time the
pancreas does not have to work so hard.


Ellis {So what is the REASON why you use metformin? Because it is
a PILL and you don't inject it, or is it because you think that
INSULIN IS DANGEROUS?

Because whatever you can tell me about the benefit of metformin,
you might be right but the benefit of using insulin is greater,
as long as there is not a down side... and there isn't a downside,
if you use insulin correctly, which is very easy to learn to do.

- Ellis}




BTW, I test my blood sugar and experiment around and cinnamon is
helpful too. It may not be as good as insulin injections, but
metformin is inexpensive and not hard to get a prescription to.

I am not diabetic but my doctor believes in keeping
blood sugar levels low and keeping the pancreas from working too hard.


{Yes... but your doctor has learned that INSULIN IS DANGEROUS,
and that is the reason why he looks for a substitute. Tell
your doctor that I have used insulin 14,000 times, and that I
think it is better than metformin or cinnamon, and it is
not dangerous. - Ellis}


My doctor said that sometimes, by the time people start taking
metformin, it is already too late, so she prefers to intervene early.


{She is a smart doctor. I agree with her on everything except
that she doesn't prescribe insulin where she should. But I
understand that she does not prescribe insulin, even if I could
convince her that it is better than metformin, because she might
lose her license for prescribing a safe hormone that other
doctors think is very dangerous... ... - Ellis}

I respect your opinions, but I have a very high opinion of this doctor,
partially because she sees so many people and bases her ideas on both research
and experience. She thinks that metformin
takes some of the burden off the pancreas and it makes sense that
it would because it would produce less insulin to achieve the same
blood sugar levels. That is what it means to have increased
insulin sensitivity.

-Don

Ellis: {No, that's not what it means to have increased insulin
sensitivity... but it doesn't matter.

I'm glad you are using metformin and I'm glad that you are
keeping your blood glucose controlled before you are diabetic.
I can't agree with everybody on everything, but I can agree with
some people on some things. I agree with you and your doctor
on this.

Thanks for writing... - Ellis}


> Dear Ellis:
>
> Thank you for a most illuminating explanation of diabetes, HB-A1C,
> insulin, etc.
>
> I have a question for you. Do you think that many over the age
> of 50 should be daily consuming PROPHYLACTICALLY a minimal
> dose of Metformin in order to sharpen and maintain their aging
> insulin receptors? Perhaps a 150 mg daily dose is warrented
> for anti-aging purposes?
>
> Respectfully yours,
>
> Rich
>
> {Hello Rich... This idea is not mine... I learned it from
> Dr. Ward Dean... Yes, if you do not want to use INSULIN
> which I think is the best, then the next best is metformin.
>
> But you have to understand what metformin does, and why I
> think it is not as good as insulin.
>
> Metformin reduces your resistance to insulin, thus it makes
> the insulin that your body produces more effective... but
> it does not stop your pancreas from producing insulin
> temporarily, which would be a good thing. Injected insulin
> takes the burden off of your pancreas, so for that
> occasion your pancreas rests. Later, if there is no
> injected insulin, your pancreas still works.
>
> It is false and utter nonsense that once you inject insulin
> you will forever stop your pancreas from producing insulin
> again, and you become insulin dependent.
>
> That is wrong, false, mistaken, and not true.
>
> When you lower your resistance to insulin, or increase
> your body's sensitivity to insulin with metformin, your
> blood glucose will probably be lower, but your pancreas
> will continue to produce insulin which will result in beta
> cell burnout. Diabetes in effect is still advancing,
> but you have better glucose control for several years.
>
> This is the reason why many type 2 diabetics seem to be
> well enough controlled with metformin, but eventually
> they become type 1 diabetics.
>
> Dr. Marley does not agree that beta cells burn out, but
> Dr. Bernstein bases all his practice on avoiding beta cell
> burnout. I am not a doctor, so I have to choose which one
> I should believe, and what Dr. Bernstein says makes more
> sense to me, because he has kept Diabetics Type 1 and
> Type II alive for 50 years including himself, by insisting
> that they should use insulin, and keep their blood glucose
> as close to 83 mg/dl as possible...
>
> So I prefer to agree with Dr. Bernstein.
>
> So whether beta cells burn out or not, I assume that they
> DO burn out because it helps me to visualize why I should
> use insulin and not metformin.
>
> So: Yes, something is better than nothing, and metformin
> is something... so I do think that taking metformin is
> good for anti-aging because it helps to keep blood glucose
> lower than it would have been... I don't know what dose
> that is, but you can find out your dose if you also check
> your blood glucose, and try to keep it about 85 mg/dl,
> especially the morning fasting blood glucose.
>
> But I prefer to use insulin, which also keeps blood glucose
> lower than it would have been and it is as cheap or cheaper
> than metformin, it does not hurt, and it also helps to keep
> beta cells from burning out, if you agree with Dr. Bernstein
> that beta cells burn out.
>
> Metformin, however, is less "hassle" to use than insulin,
> because it will probably not cause hypoglycemia, even if
> you forget to eat. On the other hand, less hassle also
> means less control. And... On the other-other hand...
> Lantus (very slow insulin) will not cause hypoglycemia even
> if you forget to eat, either... as long as you ate some time
> ago, ie, if you are not starving to death in the desert.
>
> Thanks for writing,
>
> Ellis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "C.Marley" <kailasha@...>
> Date: Monday, December 3, 2007 3:02 pm
> Subject: [Rejuvenation] Re: * * * Evidence that type 2 diabetes NOT
> best treated w/insulin
> To: Rejuvenation@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>> C.Marley wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Ellis: {Hello Dr. Marley. I never said that anybody should
>>> FLOOD their body with insulin. I, and everybody, should use
>>> THE RIGHT DOSE of insulin, AT THE RIGHT TIME, in order to
>>> keep blood glucose near 85 or to bring it down as fast
>>> as possible if it is higher than 100, so that it doesn't
>>> cause sugar-damage...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Dr. Marley: You are missing the point. People with insulin
>> resistant diabetes are ALREADY flooding their bodies with insulin.
>>
>> Adding more insulin only adds insult to injury.
>>
>> Ellis: {I am not missing the point. "According to Ellis" people
>> who are insulin resistant also respond to injected insulin...
>> I have seen it, with persons who are very insulin resistant,
>> and inject a small dose of Humalog... maybe they don't respond
>> as much as people who are not insulin resistant... but they
>> respond...
>>
>> The insulin floating about in their body is perhaps damaged
>> or dirty... or who knows what is wrong with it... but it
>> doesn't work to lower their blood glucose...
>>
>> But when these persons inject insulin, it DOES bring their
>> blood glucose down. I have seen it. I don't believe the
>> doctors or the books: I believe the glucose meter. Their
>> blood glucose goes down, in spite of what doctors or books
>> might say. Try it and see.
>>
>> And the important point is that they have to lower their
>> blood glucose and not allow it to get high at all, or else
>> their pancreas stays on the OPEN FAUCET position because
>> blood glucose is high... so the pancreas tries to bring
>> down blood glucose and eventually burns out more and more
>> beta cells...
>>
>> Besides, they should use metformin which lowers insulin
>> resistance, AND ALSO use injected insulin to lower
>> blood glucose.
>>
>> - Ellis}
>>
>>
>> Dr. Marley: So called "sugar damage" is not the problem it
>> was once thought to be.
>>
>>
>> Ellis: {So then please tell us what is the real problem...
>>
>> HbA1c is a measure of how much glucose is sticking to the
>> hemoglobin in red blood cells. It gives us an idea of
>> what the average blood glucose was in the previous 2 or
>> 3 months...
>>
>> But it also gives us an idea of how much blood glucose is
>> sticking to OTHER tissues of the body, ie, the higher the
>> HbA1c, the more glucose is probably sticking to NERVES and
>> KIDNEYS, and EYES, and CIRCULATORY SYSTEM.
>>
>> We KNOW that persons with high blood glucose have more
>> damage to the NERVOUS SYSTEM and the KIDNEYS and EYES...
>> and they have more HEART ATTACKS and STROKE, and they
>> also have less chance of survival if they have CANCER...
>>
>> SO if "sugar damage" is NOT the problem it was once thought
>> to be, then I would like to know why persons with HIGH
>> HB-A1c have more neuropathy, and more kidney problems,
>> and more eye problems, and more heart attacks and strokes,
>> than persons with HB-A1c much lower.
>>
>> Perhaps it is just COINCIDENCE that high blood glucose
>> is associated with more neuropathy, more Alzheimer's,
>> more heart attack, more cancer, more kidney disease, etc.?
>>
>> The F.D.A. is studying restricting the use of... SALT...
>>
>> That's right. It has not occurred to the FDA to restrict
>> the use of SUGAR in food made and sold to the public.
>>
>> They also think that SUGAR DAMAGE is not the problem it
>> was once thought to be. - Ellis}
>>
>>
>>
>> Insulin itself seems to be the problem in hyperinsulinemic
>> Type 2 diabetes.
>>
>> Despite the evident faith you have in him, Dr. Bernstein is
>> not the last word in Diabetes research!
>>
>> {No, he is not the LAST WORD in diabetes research...
>>
>> He is THE FIRST WORD in diabetes research...
>>
>> He was the FIRST to say that a HIGH CARBOHYDRATE DIET is
>> NOT the CORRECT DIET for diabetics...
>>
>> He was the FIRST to say that diabetics can control blood
>> glucose.
>>
>> He was the FIRST to say that diabetics should keep their
>> blood glucose at the same levels as NON-DIABETICS... that
>> means about 83 mg/dl all day, before and during and after
>> eating...
>>
>> He is also probably the FIRST diabetic type I to live 60
>> years with diabetes type I, which is no small feat considering
>> that the first 35 years of his diabetes he had to SUFFER
>> THROUGH the BAD ADVICE of the doctors of the American
>> Diabetes Association...
>>
>> The next 35 years he had to FIGHT THE BAD ADVICE of the
>> American Diabetes Association (A.D.A.) at every turn he made...
>>
>> The A.D.A. OPPOSED that diabetics should BE ALLOWED TO OWN
>> BLOOD GLUCOSE METERS...
>>
>> The A.D.A. continues to say that even if diabetics type II
>> are allowed to BUY a blood glucose meter, they don't really
>> need to USE THEM, since they can get by without any problem
>> if they measure their blood glucose ONCE every month (before
>> they visit their doctor, of course) and that ONCE is BEFORE
>> EATING BREAKFAST, which is not very clever...
>>
>> And the A.D.A. says it is not necessary for diabetics II
>> to measure glucose before and after every meal. A
>>
>> And the A.D.A. says that an HbA1c of 7.0 (blood glucose about 170
>> mg/dl) is acceptable. Etc, etc. etc.
>>
>> So... First word in diabetes research is good enough for me.
>> - Ellis]
>>
>>
>>
>> And it is definitely NOT a good idea for people with normal
>> glucose metabolism to be injecting themselves with insulin!
>>
>> C. Marley, M.D.
>>
>> {Why not? What is wrong with keeping our blood glucose
>> controlled BEFORE we become diabetics?
>>
>> I am not a diabetic and I have normal glucose metabolism
>> so you are directing your criticism to me... So I would
>> like to know WHY SHOULD I NOT BE INJECTING MYSELF with
>> insulin... ?
>>
>> If you tell me that I might get a terrible hypoglycemia...
>> I answer that I have never gotten hypoglycemia in 7 years,
>> after 14,000 doses of insulin.
>>
>> If you tell me that I might get brain damage...
>> I answer that I don't think I have gotten brain damage
>> yet.
>>
>> If you tell me that my pancreas will stop producing insulin...
>> I answer that my pancreas is producing insulin better than
>> ever... I know this because if I don't inject insulin and I
>> do drink a large glass of orange juice, my blood glucose goes
>> UP 10 160 in 35 minutes, and then it goes down to below 120
>> (and later, down below 100) in 70 minutes.
>>
>> If you tell me that I will become insulin resistant....
>> I answer that my blood insulin measured before breakfast
>> after one day of not injecting insulin is off the charts,
>> below 3, which is "like an athlete" and I am not an athlete.
>> 3 means I am not insulin resistant, and less than three also
>> means I am not insulin resistant... and 25 is the end of the
>> chart that means somebody is insulin resistant, so I am at
>> the extreme opposite end of the chart. So after 14,000
>> shots of insulin, I am not insulin resistant.
>>
>> If you tell me that I will get diabetes...
>> I answer that that is precisely why I take insulin, so that
>> I will get diabetes many years later than I should have
>> become diabetic, which will be about age 60 to 65, which is
>> right about NOW... I definitely am NOT a diabetic yet, after
>> 14,000 shots of insulin.
>>
>> If you tell me that I will cause insulin resistance...
>> I answer that I have taken 14,000 doses of insulin in the
>> last 7 years, and I have not become insulin resistant.
>>
>> So... please give me some other reasons why I should not use
>> insulin, since I am not a diabetic.
>>
>> Diabetics should use INSULIN, "according to Ellis". If they
>> use METFORMIN and NOT insulin, then they might get lower
>> blood glucose in the morning... but THIS IS NOT THE MEASURE
>> THAT THEY ARE BEATING THEIR DIABETES... they also have to
>> have blood glucose controlled AFTER breakfast, lunch, and
>> dinner...
>>
>> And in any case, EVEN IF their blood glucose is controlled,
>> their diabetes is advancing. They are avoiding the SIDE
>> EFFECTS caused by diabetes, and this is a good thing, but
>> IT COULD BE BETTER... and it is still very serious...
>>
>> Their diabetes is ADVANCING because their pancreas is still
>> producing insulin which is wearing it out... so maybe 5 or
>> 10 or 20 or 30 years later but surely they will be diabetics
>> type 1... and then they are in much greater trouble than if
>> they could have kept their diabetes as diabetes type 2...
>>
>> They could have avoided this if they had used INSULIN and
>> taken the burden of producing insulin off of their pancreas...
>>
>> I am not a doctor, so don't listen to me. But Dr. Bernstein
>> is a doctor, and he says the same thing.
>>
>> Thanks for writing.
>>
>> - Ellis}
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Study my personal anti-aging program, Rejuvenation, and study my
>> best pages, Essential, which you are welcome to read and follow,
>> here:
>>
>> Rejuvenation http://www.rajeun.net/rejuvenation.html
>>
>> Essential http://www.rajeun.net/essential.html
>>
>> Some of these pages, now open to the public, will
>> soon be for members only.
>>
>> Search and read the archives of Rejuvenation by going
>> to "Messages" then use the search feature.
>>
>> Please help make it easy for others to subscribe to Rejuvenation.
>> Send this URL to people you would like to subscribe to this
>> discussion:
>>
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>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Study my personal anti-aging program, Rejuvenation, and study my
> best pages, Essential, which you are welcome to read and follow,
> here:
>
> Rejuvenation http://www.rajeun.net/rejuvenation.html
>
> Essential http://www.rajeun.net/essential.html
>
> Some of these pages, now open to the public, will
> soon be for members only.
>
> Search and read the archives of Rejuvenation by going
> to "Messages" then use the search feature.
>
> Please help make it easy for others to subscribe to Rejuvenation.
> Send this URL to people you would like to subscribe to this
> discussion:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/Rejuvenation
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>