--- In Rejuvenation@yahoogroups.com, "jharsh80" wrote:

> I am 27 years old and have been taking proscar and dutasteride to
> prevent male pattern baldness since I was 18. Unfortunately, the
> sexual side effects are terrible (no libido, etc.), and I can't take
> it any more.
>
> [I have always said "don't use Proscar..." I don't know what
> dutasteride is... but it rhymes with finisteride...

It is basically a stronger finasteride. Proscar is the name for 5mg
finasteride pills-same thing as propecia. I quit it 2 weeks ago.

[Good! - Ellis]

> and I have also said "don't use finisteride"... it has bad
> side effects, it affects the libido... - Ellis]


Agreed!


> My doctor actually presented the idea of giving me hgh, and he
> did for a couple weeks 3 times a week (I'm not sure the dose
> but I think he increased it up to 6 the last shot).
>
> I honestly didn't notice much, other than sleeping better and
> being in a slightly more positive mood.
>
>
> [I would change doctors, if I were you... If he hasn't taken
> away Proscar, he doesn't know his medicines well enough...
> And trying to solve the problem with HGH is not my idea of
> a good idea... Find another doctor. - Ellis]

No...actually he is a really good Dr. and he did suggest I stop
taking the proscar. I was just looking for a way to have my cake
and eat it too.

[Ah... well then... he is a good doctor and YOU are a BAD
Patient! - Ellis]


> I've read that igf-1 levels reach 20% of those during childhood
> by age 30. I know I am young, but am I too young to take an I.U.
> a day, and is it even worth it?
>
>
> [It is worth it... but I don't know if it is going to reverse
> whatever harm Proscar has done for your libido... - Ellis]

I guess I will have to wait and see after the dutasteride (which
has a plasma serum half life of 5 weeks!!) is out of my system.

[ugh! Well, it will pass soon enough... Your libido won't
come back very soon, but I think it might come back after a few
months. - Ellis]


> I'd like to look younger and my hair is my main concern, but also
> I think I looked a lot better back at 19 than I do now.
>
>
> [I looked a lot better at age 19 than I do now (61), too... but
> I think I look better now than I will at age 81... so I take
> growth hormone every day to try to help myself... It is a
> matter of preventing deterioration. - Ellis]
>
>
>
> Will I actually look younger if I take it?
>
> [I don't think you will ever look like you did when you
> were 19... but you might look better than you will when
> you should look worse... - Ellis]

Thanks, I'll take that :)


[You liked that? That was "Ellis talk"... - Ellis]



> I have been smoking since I was 17 and had some uv damage as well
> I'm sure.
>
> [If you are smoking, I don't see why you should also take
> growth hormone. You have to decide if you want to be good
> to your body or if you want to be bad to your body. You can't
> spend money to repair your body, and also spend money to harm
> it. Decide. Which is it going to be??? - Ellis]


Agree 100%...it's a nasty addiction and I am in the proccess of
quitting (again) now. In fact I am spending a lot of money about $10 a
day on a fairly new anti-smoking drug called Chantix in case anyone is
interested and it works wonders!

I eat healthy, excercise, take vitamins and health supplements. Drink
only on occation. I would consider myself close to a health finatic
with the exception of smoking.


[Well, at least you have the right ATTITUDE... Good. Keep trying.
I know that it is easy for us who don't smoke to tell the people
who do smoke that it is easy for them to stop, and it probably
is very very difficult. But the person who you benefit is
yourself, so now that you are on a Good Health Wavelength, stay
with us, and try to quit smoking... this time for the LAST TIME.
If you want to be healthy bad enough, you will do it.

> I've tried all kinds of supplements for the libido thing and
> nothing works well.
>
> [Your doctor gave you supplements for the libido thing???

No... store bought herbs and arginine, stuff like that (before I
saw the Dr.)

> He doesn't seem very bright to me...

[Excuse me, doc... I thought he was blaming you for that...
- Ellis]

> I'm not sure if it will work, but you should stop using Proscar,
> and give your body some time to get rid of it completely... Then
> you should start using testosterone... Testosterone is the male
> hormone... maybe your doctor doesn't know that yet, or maybe
> he thinks it is bad and to be avoided... it is good, but
> I don't think it will work yet, in your case, because of
> the Proscar... - Ellis]


He's offered to put me on some testosterone but I declined because
it raises DHT levels as well and is bad for hair.

[You are paying your doctor for his advice, and now I think he
has given you good advice, but you are the one who is not taking
his good advice... so it is your fault... - Ellis]


> I've taken it in the past though for body building and I know
it's effects. My natural tests came back at 800 for testosterone,
but I think the dutasteride causes my test to be high because it's
not converting to dht.


[On the other hand, you might really be a he-man. 800 testosterone
means you are a young and very athletic man... all you need now is
another young and very athletic partner... There is still hope
for you, keep on looking. - Ellis]


It will be interesting to see what my test levels are after
quitting the dutasteride.

[Don't waste your money on blood tests... Buy two tickets to a
good concert, and invite somebody you like to the concert and
supper after the concert... you'll know if the... testosterone
is... rising... - Ellis]


> I had my hormone levels checked and the dr. said everything
> checked out fine with the exception of igf-1 which he did not
> test for.
>
> [Good. He saved you some money by not testing for IGF-1...
> but I don't believe everything checks out fine... did you
> check for testosterone and for estradiol? - Ellis]

He told me that he didn't test for estrogen specifically because
all my other hormone levels including testosterone checked out.
He basically deduced that they couldn't be high. Honestly I would
prefer to have them checked but I have no signs of excess estrogen.
I am very lean.



> I don't want to stop taking the systemic hairloss drug
> avodart, but I can't tolerate the side effects anymore and
> I'm convinced that DHT plays a role in sex drive regardless
> of what the clinical studies say about the incidence of side
> effects.
>
>
> [I don't know... I'm not a doctor (fortunately!)... - Ellis]
>
>
> Someone suggested taking Arimidex to lower estrogen, but he
> said I was in the normal range already and I don't have excess
> body fat or other signs of excess estrogen.
>
>
> [Who said you are in the normal range already?

The Dr.

> Did you test for estradiol, and what is your result? I'm not
> a magician, either, so I can't tell if your estrogen is
> in the normal range, since you didn't tell me what it is.
> - Ellis]
>
>
>
> He sells vials of HGH so you can inject it yourself at home
> daily. Should I try it?
>
>
> [Didn't you say your doctor was giving you HGH? Who is
> this other person... maybe he knows more than your doctor...
> Ask him if you should take Proscar and HGH... - Ellis]

"He" is my dr.

[Well then... buy some vials of HGH and inject it at home
daily. If the HGH has no brand, or if the cost is greater than
$10 per iu, write to me and you'll get a better deal. - Ellis]


> WOuld I notice anything after a month of 1 IU a day?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
>
> [What do you want to notice? I don't think it is going to
> make a difference in your libido, if that is what you want to
> notice...
>
> By the way... who do you notice your libido, with?

No one. Libido is the desire to persue sex. If you don't want
something you're not going to seek it out.

[Hmmm... sometimes I don't know why I am so lucky, but I
thank my stars that I am. Sex is an important part of my
life, fortunately. - Ellis (The Amazing 61 Year Dirty Old
Man Who Doesn't Grow Older...]


> What has that person told you about your libido? Does that
> person like your hair?
>
> If I were you... let the hair fall out, and get a wig if
> it bothers you... or get a hair transplant... but stop taking
> Proscar and other anti DHT medicines that are supposed to be
> good for your hair... It is a matter of priorities...
>
> You and I don't seem not to have the same priorities, and I
> am not criticizing what you consider to be important... but
> to me, libido comes first, second, and third... hair comes
> somewhere far down the line...

Ellis, It's been so long that I can't even remember what having a
libido is like anymore... but I'm sure back then I would have
agreed with you, and I do now. I was just trying to delay the
hair loss until the magic bullet came out that never did and too
much time passed by.


> Proscar is causing your problem... maybe dutasteride, too...
> stop taking them... let the hair fall out, and start taking
> HGH and testosterone... - Ellis]

I have stopped the dutasteride, started the HGH and, switched to a
topical approach to the hair thing.

Thanks

[Good... those are all good steps in the right direction. Now
there is not much else you can do, except wait and hope it
happens... and it will, I'm sure, I just don't know when...

Good luck. Ellis]