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Carl -
I saw a patient like this once before, they worked in a factory with chemical exposures [the pulse had blood unclear (it gets slightly wider and then narrow when using the lifting method)]. Under these conditions, I used jin yinhua, gan cao and mu zei. The pulse rate returned to normal after about ten days.
I must offer up a word of caution in terms of ethics. We do not know the ingredients of Yu Nan Bai Yao. However, we do know that the little red ball contains cinnabar. I no longer prescribe these materials, at least until the ingredients are provided.
W
I saw a patient like this once before, they worked in a factory with chemical exposures [the pulse had blood unclear (it gets slightly wider and then narrow when using the lifting method)]. Under these conditions, I used jin yinhua, gan cao and mu zei. The pulse rate returned to normal after about ten days.
I must offer up a word of caution in terms of ethics. We do not know the ingredients of Yu Nan Bai Yao. However, we do know that the little red ball contains cinnabar. I no longer prescribe these materials, at least until the ingredients are provided.
W
William R. Morris, DAOM, MSEd, LAc
President, AAOM
2700 Anderson Ln 204
Austin, TX 78757
wmorris@...
President, AAOM
2700 Anderson Ln 204
Austin, TX 78757
wmorris@...
-----Original Message-----
From: carlhenryk.wallmark@...
To: PulseDiagnosis@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 3:51 PM
Subject: SV: [PulseDiagnosis] Re: Question on a pulse picture
Hi
Will and Sean!
Many thanks for your answers!
Yes, I am following the Shen/Hammer system, studying with Scott Tower
The problem I have with this
patient is that I can not really find the root of the problem…
I am suspecting very early
Heart shock, but the patient can not confirm this in any way.
I have performed the He shock
treatment used in the Shen/Hammer system (Yunnan baiyao 64 capsules + one
red pill together with modified Sheng mai san), since she initially also had Rough vibrations
(2-3) over her entire pulse at all depths. This treatment cleared the
vibrations and made her feel a little bit better…..however not as good as
I or her want J
What I have a problem with interpretating, is why this pulse is so very slow Rate
(43-48 bpm). I know the theory about long standing He shock draining the He qi, yang
and yin. The LDP somehow supports this. Could this be something like that or?
Her face is always very red, the tongue is red and thin, lacking any coating. This
together with the Tight (4) would indicate a general yin def,
I guess…do you agree? Will I have tried to identify the most tight position, but they all feel as tight (at least to
my insensitive fingers)….
So I am most thankful for
suggestions regarding this patient!
PULSE PICTURE:
Rate: 43-48 bpm
Rate on exertion: 60-65 bpm
Rhythm: Normal
Wave: Flooding deficient
Entire pulse at Qi depth: Tight (3-4), Thin
Entire pulse at Blood depth: Tight
(3-4), Robust Pounding (3), Blood Heat
Entire pulse at Organ depth:
Tight (3-4), Robust pounding (3-4)
The only position that is
other than Tight is the LDP, which is Deep, Feeble (4), no vibrations
Best regards
Carl
-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: PulseDiagnosis@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:PulseDiagnosis@yahoogroups.com] För
wmorris 116
Skickat: den 2 september 2006 17:33
Till: PulseDiagnosis@yahoogroups.com
Ämne: [PulseDiagnosis] Re: Question on a pulse picture
Från: PulseDiagnosis@
Skickat: den 2 september 2006 17:33
Till: PulseDiagnosis@
Ämne: [PulseDiagnosis] Re: Question on a pulse picture
Hi Sean,
Good to 'hear' from you. Carl, who are you studying with? I assume it
is the current stock of teachers who are certified by Dragon Rises. If
that is the case, Sean, the use of the term tight implies a series of
processes that began with qi stagnation which caused heat and this
then toasted the yin making the vessels a little harder and more
narrow. The best descriptor for this in the standard nomenclature is
'thready-wiry,' however, this term doesn't
capture the hardness that
is beginning to emerge. In Hammer's nomenclature 'tight' is not the
'jin mai' which is typically translated as tight and is representative
of the influence of cold upon the neurovascular web. This is a typical
expression of complexity in the human condition.
Sean I like your descriptions of heart yang xu and will consider that
as part of the dialectic.
It would appear as thought the heart qi and yang are depleted to a
degree and that there is yin xu elsewhere. Since the heart is the
ruler, it defines the rate. Carl, I would look to see where the pulse
is most 'tight' in Hammer's use of the term to distinguish a likely
root of the yin depletion. Another area to examine is the arrival of
the wave. In Hammer's terms, this would be the position that is most
pounding (I use the term urgent) without force.
Carl, the question for me is: how did this occur? I would search the
history and continue the clinical inquiry until the thread of etiology
is discovered.
Sean, are you doing any further work on inter-rater reliability? I am
thinking about something along those lines and am curious what y'all
are up to in Australia.
Regards to you all and happy holiday weekend!
Will
--- In PulseDiagnosis@yahoogroups.com , Sean Walsh <sean.walsh@...>
wrote:
>
> Not sure about how to relate the other descriptions of the pulse
within my own CM framework but the pulse rate is interesting if only
45bpm. Rate is coordinated by the heart Yang (heart rhythm is
coordinated by the heart qi). the heart within a Five Phase (Wu Xing)
context relates to joy. In this sense, is it the heart Yang - the
internal emotional warmth aspect, that is vacuous/deficient and so
being reflected in the pulse?
> Additionally, if heart Yang is vacuous then the pulse wave will not
expand and so the pulse may additionally be felt deep - of course this
also relates to the level of depth of the 'illness' ie internal.
Tense (as in increased tension in the arterial wall?) could in this
instance relate to the constrained flow of Qi (or hyperactivity of the
Liver Yang) - ie Liver related. From a Five Phase context is this
constrained Liver Qi not feeding the Fire phase.
> But, increase arterial tension (ie tense?) could equally indicate
pain or Cold - this could confirm the Yang vacuous diagnosis (but Yang
vacuity is often accompanied by cold signs and symptoms - not to
mention fluid or oedematous type conditions if heart function is being
affected).
> Restful sleep requires the Shen to be nourished/housed. Again this
relates to the heart and the Blood. Disturbed sleep results when the
Shen isn't housed, Blood isn't suitably nourishing (ie aneamia) or
there is emotional constraint agitating the Shen (ie Liver). (More
information is required on the actual pattern of sleep disturbance to
understand to which pattern it is relating to).
>
>
> Dr Sean Walsh, Ph.D.
> Lecturer
> College of TCM
> Dept Medical and Molecular Biosciences
> University of Technology, Sydney
>
>
>
> Dr Sean Walsh, Ph.D.
> Lecturer
> College of TCM
> Dept Medical and Molecular Biosciences
> University of Technology, Sydney
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Carl Henryk Wallmark <carlhenryk.wallmark@...>
> Date: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:33 pm
> Subject: [PulseDiagnosis] Question on a pulse picture
> To: PulseDiagnosis@yahoogroups.com
>
> >
> > Hi all
> >
> > I have a question for you regarding the pulse picture of a patient of
> > mine..
> >
> > The rate is about 45 bpm
> > LDP is deep, feeble (4), no vibrations
> > The entire pulse is tight (4)
> >
> > The patient does not have any physical symptoms except some sleep
> > difficulties (never sleeps through a whole night), and appears to be
> > well. Her main complaint is a feeling of not being able to be
> > happy, no
> > matter what good happens to her. She (and I) do not classify her as
> > depressive, but more a "lack of joy" .
> >
> > Any suggestions regarding the pulse?
> >
> > BR
> > Carl Wallmark
> >
>
Good to 'hear' from you. Carl, who are you studying with? I assume it
is the current stock of teachers who are certified by Dragon Rises. If
that is the case, Sean, the use of the term tight implies a series of
processes that began with qi stagnation which caused heat and this
then toasted the yin making the vessels a little harder and more
narrow. The best descriptor for this in the standard nomenclature is
'thready-wiry,
is beginning to emerge. In Hammer's nomenclature 'tight' is not the
'jin mai' which is typically translated as tight and is representative
of the influence of cold upon the neurovascular web. This is a typical
expression of complexity in the human condition.
Sean I like your descriptions of heart yang xu and will consider that
as part of the dialectic.
It would appear as thought the heart qi and yang are depleted to a
degree and that there is yin xu elsewhere. Since the heart is the
ruler, it defines the rate. Carl, I would look to see where the pulse
is most 'tight' in Hammer's use of the term to distinguish a likely
root of the yin depletion. Another area to examine is the arrival of
the wave. In Hammer's terms, this would be the position that is most
pounding (I use the term urgent) without force.
Carl, the question for me is: how did this occur? I would search the
history and continue the clinical inquiry until the thread of etiology
is discovered.
Sean, are you doing any further work on inter-rater reliability? I am
thinking about something along those lines and am curious what y'all
are up to in Australia.
Regards to you all and happy holiday weekend!
Will
--- In PulseDiagnosis@
>
> Not sure about how to relate the other descriptions of the pulse
within my own CM framework but the pulse rate is interesting if only
45bpm. Rate is coordinated by the heart Yang (heart rhythm is
coordinated by the heart qi). the heart within a Five Phase (Wu Xing)
context relates to joy. In this sense, is it the heart Yang - the
internal emotional warmth aspect, that is vacuous/deficient and so
being reflected in the pulse?
> Additionally, if heart Yang is vacuous then the pulse wave will not
expand and so the pulse may additionally be felt deep - of course this
also relates to the level of depth of the 'illness' ie internal.
Tense (as in increased tension in the arterial wall?) could in this
instance relate to the constrained flow of Qi (or hyperactivity of the
Liver Yang) - ie Liver related. From a Five Phase context is this
constrained Liver Qi not feeding the Fire phase.
> But, increase arterial tension (ie tense?) could equally indicate
pain or Cold - this could confirm the Yang vacuous diagnosis (but Yang
vacuity is often accompanied by cold signs and symptoms - not to
mention fluid or oedematous type conditions if heart function is being
affected).
> Restful sleep requires the Shen to be nourished/housed. Again this
relates to the heart and the Blood. Disturbed sleep results when the
Shen isn't housed, Blood isn't suitably nourishing (ie aneamia) or
there is emotional constraint agitating the Shen (ie Liver). (More
information is required on the actual pattern of sleep disturbance to
understand to which pattern it is relating to).
>
>
> Dr Sean Walsh, Ph.D.
> Lecturer
> College of TCM
> Dept Medical and Molecular Biosciences
> University of Technology, Sydney
>
>
>
> Dr Sean Walsh, Ph.D.
> Lecturer
> College of TCM
> Dept Medical and Molecular Biosciences
> University of Technology, Sydney
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Carl Henryk Wallmark <carlhenryk.
> Date: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:33 pm
> Subject: [PulseDiagnosis] Question on a pulse picture
> To: PulseDiagnosis@
>
> >
> > Hi all
> >
> > I have a question for you regarding the pulse picture of a patient of
> > mine..
> >
> > The rate is about 45 bpm
> > LDP is deep, feeble (4), no vibrations
> > The entire pulse is tight (4)
> >
> > The patient does not have any physical symptoms except some sleep
> > difficulties (never sleeps through a whole night), and appears to be
> > well. Her main complaint is a feeling of not being able to be
> > happy, no
> > matter what good happens to her. She (and I) do not classify her as
> > depressive, but more a "lack of joy" .
> >
> > Any suggestions regarding the pulse?
> >
> > BR
> > Carl Wallmark
> >
>
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