Kawaguchi Y, Mizuta T, Takahashi, K, et al.  High-dose vitamins E and
C supplementation prevents ribavirin-induced hemolytic anemia in
patients with chronic hepatitis C. Hepatol Res. 2007 May;37(5):317-24.

Department of Internal Medicine, Saga Medical School, Saga, Japan.
Aim: In combination therapy using interferon (IFN) and ribavirin for
chronic hepatitis C, reduced doses should be used due to
ribavirin-induced hemolytic anemia. The present study aimed to
elucidate whether high-dose vitamins E and C supplementation
attenuated ribavirin-induced hemolytic anemia. Methods: Twenty-one
consecutive patients with chronic hepatitis C were enrolled in this
study between July 2003 and December 2004, and received high-dose
vitamins E (2000 mg) and C (2000 mg) supplementation, daily, in
addition to IFN alfa-2b and ribavirin combination therapy (vitamins
E/C group). Twenty-one sex- and age-matched patients who received a
standard regimen of IFN alfa-2b and ribavirin for chronic hepatitis C
between January 2001 and June 2003 were evaluated as the control
group. Results: Decrease in hemoglobin level was significantly
prevented in the vitamins E and C group compared to that in the
control group (P = 0.029). Three (14.3%) patients in the control
group discontinued treatment because of anemia, while no treated
patient dropped out of the study due to anemia. Sustained virological
response was not significantly different between the two groups.
Conclusion: High-dose vitamins E and C supplementation prevented
ribavirin-induced hemolytic anemia during combination therapy with
ribavirin and IFN alfa-2b in patients with chronic hepatitis C.
PMID: 17441803 [PubMed - in process]

Trouble is - a lot of the real people in the "real world" were never very
real either. I find bars to be very similar to chat rooms, except you have
the advantage of looking someone in the eyes. I have had bad experience with
gossips there. They can make being + sound so negative.

Another issue is that if you can Google it - it's available to anyone who
wants the info. They may not have to know where to look, just your name.
Some profiles (and my personal homepage) turn up with search engines. I've
been "out" for a long time, even on TV, but I don't have to worry about
prospective employers (for now) either. I'm sure a lot of people have to be
much more careful than I.

BG

----- Original Message -----

Agreed: being eliminated doesn't make one feel nice.

But hell, I'm 52 and not everybody's cup-of-tea in any event.

It's WHY one is eliminated.  And yeah, it 'might' happen anyway, but in 21
years of being poz, I've never BEEN 'eliminated' for that reason - if they
met me first, we knew each other some, THEN they were informed.

This isn't mere aesthetics, either.

But gotta agree that one way to surmount it is to meet real people.  :)
Problem is. a lot of real people are first met via the computer now days.

Kelly
Seattle

Agreed: being eliminated doesn't make one feel nice.

But hell, I'm 52 and not everybody's cup-of-tea in any event.

It's WHY one is eliminated.  And yeah, it 'might' happen anyway, but in 21
years of being poz, I've never BEEN 'eliminated' for that reason - if they
met me first, we knew each other some, THEN they were informed.

This isn't mere aesthetics, either.

But gotta agree that one way to surmount it is to meet real people.  :)
Problem is. a lot of real people are first met via the computer now days.

Kelly
Seattle

-----Original Message-----
From: PozHealth@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PozHealth@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of jim98122x
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 8:51 AM
To: PozHealth@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PozHealth] Re: Is anyone else offended by questions about HIV
status on on-line profiles

You guys are all "preaching to the choir" and you're all dancing
around the real issue.  The issue isn't really whether or not the
profiles ask, your points really all boil down to "how does it make
me feel when someone eliminates me because I'm poz?"   We can reason
amongst ourselves all we want how people are making foolish decisions
based on online profiles, and taking stupid risks, etc.  But the real
point is how we get treated for being poz.  You can't blame the
websites, it only speeds up the process that might happen anyway.

The way I see it, the few choices we have are  A) serosorting,
sticking to poz-only guys, which many people don't feel good about
or B)  put down the f*cking mouse, step away from the computer, and
go back out into the real world-- where people meet you first as an
individual.  Where the "need to know" comes really when they need to
know, and not on your '20 words or less' profile screen.

JimS.

--- In PozHealth@yahoogroups.com, "Kelly Scott" <kscott@...> wrote:
>
> I agree except well, it promotes idiotic risk taking.
Communicating mere status, and acting on that lil piece of
information, will quite reliably get them infected.

> Kelly
> Seattle

> To: Rhino88; PozHealth@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PozHealth] Is anyone else offended by questions about
HIV status on on-line profiles
>
>
>
> I'm not offended by the question...  I agree with everything you
said but for the most part these are 'hook-up' sites where the
presumption is people are looking for sex partners... I believe the
thinking is that since the hiv thing is a deal breaker for many
putting it out there saves a lot of time... you can leave it blank
and people may assume, but at least you aren't disclosing to every
person who happens to look at your profile... I do indicate that I'm
positive but I don't post a face pic... at least this way there is
some privacy maintained.
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Rhino88 <rhino88@...>
> Subject: [PozHealth] Is anyone else offended by questions about HIV
status on on-line profiles

>
> I realize this is not strictly speaking health related, but I want
to get some feedback regardless.
>

> As the Internet becomes more and more of a standard way to meet
people in the gay world (and elsewhere), I have noticed a new trend,
which I personally find very stigmatizing and disturbing.
>
>
> When you create an on-line profile for yourself in various gay
sites, you will be chugging along putting in check marks for
questions like Eye colour? Hair colour? Height? Weight?, age?
Location? etc...and then suddenly out of the blue you will be forced
to check off HIV + or -? Maybe I'm just being overly sensitive, but I
resent the idea that an intensely private health issue is suddenly
being juxtaposed with "Are your eyes brown or blue?" as if it was
this simple throw away question.  They probably don't ask people to
put down their annual income because it is seen as being "too
personal", but they think that people should be expected to broadcast
their HIV status to the entire universe in cyberspace.
>

> Don't get me wrong.  If someone wants to ask me directly - I have
no problem telling them. In fact, if I personally WANT to be
totaly "out" about my HIV status I could just put it voluntarily in
the text of my profile or even in the headline.
>
>
> But by forcing people to reveal themselves it means the following
>
> a) If you check off that you are HIV+, you cease to be a personal
with any human characteristics - you are reduced to a pile of
statistics with a + sign afterwards meaning you can get tossed into a
reject pile when people want a quick way to seperate the wheat from
the chaff. YOu have also now shared something about yourself with
hundreds of thousands of people in cyberspace that you may never have
discussed with some close friends or family.

>
> b) you can lie and say you are NEG - but who wants to do that since
it would be unethical
>
> c) you can leave it blank - in which case you might as well just
check off POZ since that is the conclusion everyone will jump to if
you don't answer the question.
>
> I think it should be up to individuals to decide who, what, where,
when and how they want to "disclose" their status to people and that
this is a slippery slope that will lead to being asked about HIV
status on job application forms etc...
>
> We should have a right to privacy.
>




Welcome to our PozHealth group!
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Thanks for joining. You will learn and share a lot in this group!

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List Founder and Moderator

Yahoo! Groups Links

I just think that anyone who depends on an on line site to give
accurate information about a person's HIV status is hopelessly
stupid, and that is an unattractive quality.

You never know what that person on the other end really is.  If they
say "ub2," pass them by, they are idiots, and "ub2."

As for your own "scarlet letter," where you wear it, proudly on your
arm, or in discrete whispers, it is your own business how you do it,
as long as you are honest about it when the meat hits the sheets.

On some sites, putting HIV+ seems to be "hit repellant," while on
others, it seems to get more attention.

There's no one right way.

JB

Lol
Nope, its not legal to require blanket pre-employment medical releases.

IF you're qualified for the job, apply and make a lawyers dream come true:
recovery of attorney's fees are covered in the ADA and other statutes, just
make sure you're covered by the statutes.

Kelly
Seattle

-----Original Message-----
From: PozHealth@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PozHealth@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Don
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 7:29 PM
To: PozHealth@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PozHealth] Regarding hiv staus on line

I find it vey hurtful when an hiv negative person refers to himself
as "clean." Why not just say the rest of us are dirty?

Also I recently saw an employment application that included a release
form for the applicant's medical records. What the hell was this
about ---is this legal? I'd never seen it before.
Don



Welcome to our PozHealth group!
If you received this email from someone who forwarded it to you and would
like to join this group, send a blank email to
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instructions to follow. You can chose to receive single emails or a daily
digest (collection of emails). You can post pictures, images, attach files
and search by keyword old postings in the group.

For those of you who are members already and want to switch from single
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PozHealth, then on "edit my membership" and go down to your selection. The
list administrator does not process any requests, so this is a
do-it-yourself easy process ! :)
Thanks for joining. You will learn and share a lot in this group!

NOTE: I moderate, approve or disapprove emails before they are posted.
Please follow the guidelines shown in the homepage. I will not allow
rudeness, sexually  explicit material, attacks, and anyone who does not
follow the rules. If you are not OK with this, please do not join the group.


Forward this email to anyone who may benefit from this information! Thanks!
In Health,

Nelson Vergel (PoWeRTX@...)
List Founder and Moderator

Yahoo! Groups Links

You guys are all "preaching to the choir" and you're all dancing
around the real issue.  The issue isn't really whether or not the
profiles ask, your points really all boil down to "how does it make
me feel when someone eliminates me because I'm poz?"   We can reason
amongst ourselves all we want how people are making foolish decisions
based on online profiles, and taking stupid risks, etc.  But the real
point is how we get treated for being poz.  You can't blame the
websites, it only speeds up the process that might happen anyway.

The way I see it, the few choices we have are  A) serosorting,
sticking to poz-only guys, which many people don't feel good about
or B)  put down the f*cking mouse, step away from the computer, and
go back out into the real world-- where people meet you first as an
individual.  Where the "need to know" comes really when they need to
know, and not on your '20 words or less' profile screen.

JimS.

--- In PozHealth@yahoogroups.com, "Kelly Scott" <kscott@...> wrote:
>
> I agree except well, it promotes idiotic risk taking.
Communicating mere status, and acting on that lil piece of
information, will quite reliably get them infected.

> Kelly
> Seattle

> To: Rhino88; PozHealth@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PozHealth] Is anyone else offended by questions about
HIV status on on-line profiles
>
>
>
> I'm not offended by the question...  I agree with everything you
said but for the most part these are 'hook-up' sites where the
presumption is people are looking for sex partners... I believe the
thinking is that since the hiv thing is a deal breaker for many
putting it out there saves a lot of time... you can leave it blank
and people may assume, but at least you aren't disclosing to every
person who happens to look at your profile... I do indicate that I'm
positive but I don't post a face pic... at least this way there is
some privacy maintained.
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Rhino88 <rhino88@...>
> Subject: [PozHealth] Is anyone else offended by questions about HIV
status on on-line profiles

>
> I realize this is not strictly speaking health related, but I want
to get some feedback regardless.
>

> As the Internet becomes more and more of a standard way to meet
people in the gay world (and elsewhere), I have noticed a new trend,
which I personally find very stigmatizing and disturbing.
>
>
> When you create an on-line profile for yourself in various gay
sites, you will be chugging along putting in check marks for
questions like Eye colour? Hair colour? Height? Weight?, age?
Location? etc...and then suddenly out of the blue you will be forced
to check off HIV + or -? Maybe I'm just being overly sensitive, but I
resent the idea that an intensely private health issue is suddenly
being juxtaposed with "Are your eyes brown or blue?" as if it was
this simple throw away question.  They probably don't ask people to
put down their annual income because it is seen as being "too
personal", but they think that people should be expected to broadcast
their HIV status to the entire universe in cyberspace.
>

> Don't get me wrong.  If someone wants to ask me directly - I have
no problem telling them. In fact, if I personally WANT to be
totaly "out" about my HIV status I could just put it voluntarily in
the text of my profile or even in the headline.
>
>
> But by forcing people to reveal themselves it means the following
>
> a) If you check off that you are HIV+, you cease to be a personal
with any human characteristics - you are reduced to a pile of
statistics with a + sign afterwards meaning you can get tossed into a
reject pile when people want a quick way to seperate the wheat from
the chaff. YOu have also now shared something about yourself with
hundreds of thousands of people in cyberspace that you may never have
discussed with some close friends or family.

>
> b) you can lie and say you are NEG - but who wants to do that since
it would be unethical
>
> c) you can leave it blank - in which case you might as well just
check off POZ since that is the conclusion everyone will jump to if
you don't answer the question.
>
> I think it should be up to individuals to decide who, what, where,
when and how they want to "disclose" their status to people and that
this is a slippery slope that will lead to being asked about HIV
status on job application forms etc...
>
> We should have a right to privacy.
>

Original message: Is anyone else offended by questions about HIV status on on-line pro
    Posted by: "Rhino88" rhino88@... 
    Date: Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:37 am ((PDT))

PozHealthI realize this is not strictly speaking health related, but I 
want to get some feedback regardless.

As the Internet becomes more and more of a standard way to meet people 
in the gay world (and elsewhere), I have noticed a new trend, which I 
personally find very stigmatizing and disturbing.

When you create an on-line profile for yourself in various gay
 sites, 
you will be chugging along putting in check marks for questions like Eye 
colour? Hair colour? Height? Weight?, age? Location? etc...and then 
suddenly out of the blue you will be forced to check off HIV + or -? Maybe 
I'm just being overly sensitive, but I resent the idea that an 
intensely private health issue is suddenly being juxtaposed with "Are your eyes 
brown or blue?" as if it was this simple throw away question.  They 
probably don't ask people to put down their annual income because it is 
seen as being "too personal", but they think that people should be 
expected to broadcast their HIV status to the entire universe in cyberspace.

Don't get me wrong.  If someone wants to ask me directly - I have no 
problem telling them. In fact, if I personally WANT to be totaly "out" 
about my HIV status I could just put it voluntarily in the text of my 
profile or even in the headline.

But by forcing people to reveal
 themselves it means the following

a) If you check off that you are HIV+, you cease to be a personal with 
any human characteristics - you are reduced to a pile of statistics 
with a + sign afterwards meaning you can get tossed into a reject pile 
when people want a quick way to seperate the wheat from the chaff. YOu 
have also now shared something about yourself with hundreds of thousands 
of people in cyberspace that you may never have discussed with some 
close friends or family.

b) you can lie and say you are NEG - but who wants to do that since it 
would be unethical

c) you can leave it blank - in which case you might as well just check 
off POZ since that is the conclusion everyone will jump to if you don't 
answer the question.

I think it should be up to individuals to decide who, what, where, when 
and how they want to "disclose" their status to people and that this is 
a slippery slope that will lead to
 being asked about HIV status on job 
application forms etc...

We should have a right to privacy.
Messages in this topic (1)
_________________________________________

It certainly sounds like Dr Goldstone, and his patients in Bedrock, won't be getting the series of three Gardasil vaccinations - because he knows the Gardasil vaccine is only approved for women of a certain age. 

Fortunately I did get the Gardasil vaccinations because I think it works just as well in men.

Place your bets and take your chances.

--- In PozHealth@yahoogroups.com, "Don" <gideonIATF@...> wrote:
>
> dear Norm
>
> in your text below you suggest that the gardasil vax would have
> beneficial effect on previously HPV infected men and would reduce
> ocurrence of warts.
>
> i have today spoken with Dr. Goldstone who said to me very loud and
> clear that Gardasil offers no such benefit.
>
> It would be to the benefit of the list if you clarify the basis for
> this claim.
>
> thanks
>
> Gideon Hirsch MD
>
>
>
>
>
> From: "Norm Stuart" ns02@
> Date: Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:57 pm
> Subject: Re: last night's forum on anal dysplasia and cancer -
> supplement recommendations norm_w_stuart
> Offline
> Send Email
> Invite to Yahoo! 360°
> Its true that very few HIV+ people are already infected with all
> four strains of HPV which the three Gardasil vaccinatons protect
> against. But Gardasil potentially offers far more protection than
> this, at least in the trials conducted so far.
>
> Gardasil was only 89% effective in preventing infection with any of
> the viral strains . . .
>
> But, Gardasil was 100% effective in preventing cancer, precancerous
> lesions or genital warts.
>
> So, even if you are infected with any of these HPV viral strains,
> Gardasil offers the possibility of controlling this existing virus
> and preventing it from causing warts or anal cancer.
>

I find it vey hurtful when an hiv negative person refers to himself
as "clean." Why not just say the rest of us are dirty?

Also I recently saw an employment application that included a release
form for the applicant's medical records. What the hell was this
about ---is this legal? I'd never seen it before.
Don

Brian...

I correct them too, which makes them look really puzzled.  I am flatly
astonished at the ignorance and lack of thinking of negatives now days. A
negative test means one was negative for a month or so before the test
forward until the next risk taking.

In fact, I've made EXACTLY your argument with public health, to no apparent
avail, who push disclosure as the end all be all of communication, the lack
of which they want subject to criminal penalties.  That is, there are no
negatives, just those who don't know they are positives -> at least, in a
context where sexual activity is presumed (e.g. Manhunt, et al).

Worse, 'I'm negative since...' doesn't address how much risk taking since
that date, which might make the person HIGHLY infectious, as being in early
infection, much more so than they will be in a few months.  Yet those who
desire to know serostatus must want to know to gauge their own behavior, no?
Which means they are liable to take more risks with someone 'negative', who
may nonetheless (and at a certain point of prevalence in the population, is
likely to be) many many times as infectious as someone positive.  Real
communication would lead to a short discussion of sexual history SINCE then,
but nope, its all short hand.

No soap.  It's a visceral thing: everyone wants to know, and get all that
thinking stuff out of the way.  That a certain amount of risk they simply
have to live with, and that the highest amount may not come from the guy who
is safe but positive, is just beyond their labeling lil minds.

Kelly

-----Original Message-----
From: PozHealth@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PozHealth@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Brian Mailman
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 9:19 AM
To: PozHealth@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PozHealth] Is anyone else offended by questions about HIV
status on on-line profiles

Rhino88 wrote:
> I realize this is not strictly speaking health related, but I want to
> get some feedback regardless.

I think it fosters a false sense of safety because "positive" is the
only dispositive status.  "Negative" just means "was negative at the
least 3 months previously."

Whenever I meet someone who tells me "I'm negative," I correct him with
"you mean you were negative on your last test." and sometimes follow up
with "and you know it only means that when you were tested you hadn't
been in exposed in the previous 3 months."

B/


Welcome to our PozHealth group!
If you received this email from someone who forwarded it to you and would
like to join this group, send a blank email to
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instructions to follow. You can chose to receive single emails or a daily
digest (collection of emails). You can post pictures, images, attach files
and search by keyword old postings in the group.

For those of you who are members already and want to switch from single
emails to digest or vice versa, visit www.yahoogroups.com, click on
PozHealth, then on "edit my membership" and go down to your selection. The
list administrator does not process any requests, so this is a
do-it-yourself easy process ! :)
Thanks for joining. You will learn and share a lot in this group!

NOTE: I moderate, approve or disapprove emails before they are posted.
Please follow the guidelines shown in the homepage. I will not allow
rudeness, sexually  explicit material, attacks, and anyone who does not
follow the rules. If you are not OK with this, please do not join the group.


Forward this email to anyone who may benefit from this information! Thanks!
In Health,

Nelson Vergel (PoWeRTX@...)
List Founder and Moderator

Yahoo! Groups Links

Rhino88 wrote:
> I realize this is not strictly speaking health related, but I want to
> get some feedback regardless.

I think it fosters a false sense of safety because "positive" is the
only dispositive status. "Negative" just means "was negative at the
least 3 months previously."

Whenever I meet someone who tells me "I'm negative," I correct him with
"you mean you were negative on your last test." and sometimes follow up
with "and you know it only means that when you were tested you hadn't
been in exposed in the previous 3 months."

B/

_

You know?  I'm here, reading notes, and watching TV, and low and
behold, there's a "gardasil" add.

My first reaction is that perhaps, this add will reach people unaware
of HPV, and it's not all bad.

hmmmmmmm


JB

dear Norm

in your text below you suggest that the gardasil vax would have
beneficial effect on previously HPV infected men and would reduce
ocurrence of warts.

i have today spoken with Dr.  Goldstone who said to me very loud and
clear that Gardasil offers no such benefit.

It would be to the benefit of the list if you clarify the basis for
this claim.

thanks

Gideon Hirsch MD





From: "Norm Stuart" <ns02@...>
Date: Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:57 pm
Subject: Re: last night's forum on anal dysplasia and cancer -
supplement recommendations  norm_w_stuart
  Offline
  Send Email
  Invite to Yahoo! 360°
   Its true that very few HIV+ people are already infected with all
four strains of HPV which the three Gardasil vaccinatons protect
against.  But Gardasil potentially offers far more protection than
this, at least in the trials conducted so far.

Gardasil was only 89% effective in preventing infection with any of
the viral strains . . .

But, Gardasil was 100% effective in preventing cancer, precancerous
lesions or genital warts.

So, even if you are infected with any of these HPV viral strains,
Gardasil offers the possibility of controlling this existing virus
and preventing it from causing warts or anal cancer.

George, I appreciate your sentiment, but companies being responsible
(supposedly) to share holders, by what right can one expect them to put
things AHEAD of profits, market share, the economic well being of the
company?  That doesn't justify lies nor delusion, but frankly, if a company
I had my pension in was losing money due to sheer altruism, I'd sue the
managers' asses off....

Create market pressure, a government regulatory scheme or some type of
thinking which can show it is to the shareholders advantage economically..

Kelly Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: PozHealth@yahoogroups.com [mailto:] On Behalf Of George M. Carter
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 9:34 AM
To: lipodystrophy-yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PozHealth] Abbott CEO fights back in dispute over HIV drug

At 05:14 PM 4/27/2007, you wrote:

>Abbott CEO fights back in dispute over HIV drug
>White defends action in Thailand at shareholder meeting
>
>(Crains) - Abbott Laboratories CEO Miles White
>on Friday offered a stern defense of the
>drugmaker's handling of a dispute with Thailand
>over the patent on its top-selling HIV medication.

What a load of crap--defending the indefensible.
"Profits matter more than human lives" he squealed petulantly!

Sounds like "abstinence only! No condoms! Sex is
Naughty" cried Randall Tobias, erstwhile head of
USAID who just stepped down after being caught
fucking prostitutes at a local DC Madam's establishment.

A world that seems run on lies, hypocrisies and self-delusional bullshit.
Same as it ever was....
George M. Carter





Welcome to our PozHealth group!
If you received this email from someone who forwarded it to you and would
like to join this group, send a blank email to
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For those of you who are members already and want to switch from single
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PozHealth, then on "edit my membership" and go down to your selection. The
list administrator does not process any requests, so this is a
do-it-yourself easy process ! :)
Thanks for joining. You will learn and share a lot in this group!

NOTE: I moderate, approve or disapprove emails before they are posted.
Please follow the guidelines shown in the homepage. I will not allow
rudeness, sexually  explicit material, attacks, and anyone who does not
follow the rules. If you are not OK with this, please do not join the group.


Forward this email to anyone who may benefit from this information! Thanks!
In Health,

Nelson Vergel (PoWeRTX@...)
List Founder and Moderator

Yahoo! Groups Links