I agree entirely. It's stupid to mix hydrocodone with acetaminophen. They should
be separate meds, to be prescribed as such.

This system is based on paternalism, which is, in general, not truly for the
common good, but biased because someone in power thinks they know best or have
higher moral ground.

Michael Mooney

--- In PozHealth@yahoogroups.com, "jetonxxx" <jeton@...> wrote:
>
> i also have experience with acetaminophen, having had a 105.5 fever for a week
in 1995, with highly elevated liver enzymes, with nothing to explain it besides
having taken 3 vicodins and and 3 medium-strong drinks. i wasn't taking NAC at
the time, and most people don't.
>
> there's nothing to stop doctors from prescribing any of the various opiates
currently paired with acetaminophen separately, the problem is in commonly
pairing (and titrating) them together. You describe this as a "powergrab" but
don't show who is gaining power by this move, and how exactly. The point is that
pairing acetaminophen together with opiates in the first place was the actual
powergrab: pharma companies wanted to punish anyone taking 'too much' opiate by
giving them too much acetaminophen to MAKE them sick. here is Time Magazine's
latest article on this, and i'll reprint the last 2 paragraphs here:
>
>
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1908408,00.html?xid=rss-topstorie\
s
>
> ***The members based their decision on the studies and data that were
presented to them during the two-day meeting. The vast majority of studies
linking liver failure to acetaminophen use involve prescription acetaminophen
products, such as Vicodin or Percocet; more than 60% of the
acetaminophen-associated liver problems occurred in patients using prescription
medications, while only 10% occurred in those using nonprescription pain
remedies. "The recommendations of the committee are not based on the logic of
what we think is happening, but on the data presented to the committee," says
Kramer. "A much larger percent of liver-failure cases associated with
acetaminophen involved a prescription acetaminophen product."
>
> Members were also concerned about the pairing of narcotic agents such as
hydrocodone and oxycodone, both known to be addictive, with acetaminophen, which
is known to increase the risk of liver problems with higher and higher doses. If
patients become dependent on the narcotic, and continue taking prescription
painkillers, they are also more likely to suffer from liver toxicity associated
with the acetaminophen. "How can you mix a highly addictive drug with one that
can cause toxicity at high doses?" says Dr. William Lee, director of the
Clinical Center for Liver Diseases at the University of Texas Southwestern
Medical Center. Lee presented data to the committee on liver damage due to
acetaminophen overdose. "It's like putting poison in a candy." ****
>
> Jeton
>
> --- In PozHealth@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <michael@> wrote:
> >
> > After hearing all kinds of this scary stuff -- that acetaminophen will
destroy my liver, I find that I have been on NORCO for over a year because of
shoulder surgery, an Achilles tendon tear and heal injuries. The final surgery
to fix my Achilles tendon happens in August, then I will be very happy to NOT
talk to a doctor for a long time and to gradually wean myself off NORCO.
> >
> > I have been taking 1 and 1/2 to 2 NORCO, which is 10 mg of hydrocodone with
325 mg of acetaminophen per tablet about 4 times a day, getting about 2,000 mg
of acetaminophen per day because I average between 6 and 7 NORCO tablet per day.
I was very skeptical when my doctor told me he had hundreds of patients who took
painkillers that added up to as much as 4,000 mg of acetaminophen per day for
long periods, with no significant liver toxicity. I DO take 1,500 mg of NAC,
which is the antidote for liver toxicity from acetaminophen, per day, and other
supplements that support liver health. How much do they protect me? Who knows.
> >
> > Well, reporting in, my recent blood tests showed no elevations of AST and
ALT or GGT. While AST and ALT are multi-function tests and do not only read the
liver, GGT is specific to the liver. My GGT measured 20, which is low-mid normal
- the top of normal is 65. MY blood tests say that I am not experiencing any
significant liver toxicity.
> >
> > I drink alcohol to the tune of 2 to 3 good drinks per night, pretty much
every night. I never drink to get drunk - I don't like being out of control --
only to relax a little. I've heard that alcohol and acetaminophen could quickly
cause liver failure -- how scary. I've heard this from well-known PhD
researchers. This is a hypothesis on their parts -- not based on the experience
my doctor has, watching the blood tests of hundreds of patients. It is misguided
and wrong on other part, based on my experience.
> >
> > This scare on acetaminophen, based on my experience is complete bullshit.
This is what my doctor said based on him watching hundreds of patients over
dozens of years.
> >
> > Just another powergrab by conservative liars who want to control more
people's lives and control the use of painkillers and drugs, in general.
> >
> > People who are in pain should be given whatever they really need to make
life livable. And moralistic jerks should get their powergrabbing hands out of
people's personal lives. This is exactly the same issue as medical marijuana.
> >
> > NORCO has helped me live normally, without a lot of pain. I have had the
option to advance to oxycodone/oxycontin, and tried it and didn't like it. It
made me feel dumb and dull. The next day I was very crabby -- and could tell
oxycodone could easily create an addiction syndrome.
> >
> > I still have 15 tablets that I don't use.
> >
> > I have friends who have drug addiction problems who can't believe I could
refuse to take oxycodone, but I do just fine with the weaker painkiller, NORCO,
with its hydrocodone and want no part in going to anything more addictive. I
have weaned myself off hydrocodone after hernia surgery 10 years ago, know how
to do it and can do it again.
> >
> > Goddess, protect is from paternalistic asshole powergrabbers and the FDA who
is in cahoots with them!
> >
> > Michael Mooney
> > www.michaelmooney.net
> > www.medibolics.com
> >
> > --- In PozHealth@yahoogroups.com, "jetonxxx" <jeton@> wrote:
> > >
> > > i'm always for personal choice, but i think this was a good move indeed.
>