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Re: Patients vs Clients   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #223 of 235 |
Re: [NDPhilosophy] Re: Patients vs Clients

I would just like to point out that in states where naturopaths are licensed, we have the option of deciding what to be called and what to call our patients/clients.  I'm originally from New York state where there currently are no options because of the lack of licensing. Doctors are physicians must call their patients clients; they can't treat, they give recommendations; and they can't diagnose.  If a NY ND has an LAc, they have the ability to treat and diagnose their patients according to Chinese Medicine, but they are capable of nothing more than an un-D if they don't have an LAc.
 
Although I appreciate the discussion, I want everyone to realize their priveleges.  You worked at least as hard as an MD to become an ND and your education cost about what an MD paid.  I have no qualms about calling myself "doctor" when I graduate. I earned it, despite my more intimate relationship with my patients. And, my "patients" deserve the quality of education that I put myself through to earn a doctorate, as opposed to an online degree. Therefore, I have no issue with patients calling me doctor.
 
Philosophically, I know that I am far different from an MD. But I wouldn't ever have chosen that path, nor would I have chosen a lesser (un-D) path.  I believe that patients are looking for someone who has the qualifications of an MD, but treats them more holistically. I think that patients are looking for qualified and capable physicians, not just friends.
 
Jen Williamson
Tempe, AZ
 


 
----- Original Message ----
From: Swan <swanoir@...>
To: NDPhilosophy@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 5:35:22 PM
Subject: [NDPhilosophy] Re: Patients vs Clients

William,
I apologize about forgetting my name and will be more mindful of this
in the future when cutting and pasting from Word.

I had an interesting conversation today with an elder at a Unitarian
church I have been semi-involved with in the past. We spoke at length
about the fact that, since they didn't acknowledge any definite deity
or had an stable minister, they were often considered a "social group"
at best and a "cult" at worst. In other words, they were an
"alternative" spiritual option and therefore had difficulty recruiting
from the larger, mostly conservative community. One reason for this
was the lack of a recognized structure within which the new member
could feel comfortable making the transition into an often radically
different way of the thinking.

Likewise, as communal or egalitarian as I would like to be as an ND,
there are constraints on how far I can pushed that based on the
culture and community I find myself in. A portion of that is simply
hospitality, which is excellently discussed in the book Setting the
Table, by award-winning restaurateur Danny Meyer. But as I referenced
in my last email, there is the larger issue of therapeutic authority.
When you are absolutely certain that your patient does not need, and
will be harmed, by being drugged into oblivion for their grief, or
family of origin issue, or "ADHD", what is going to give you the
leverage to convince your patient to agree with you when their spouse,
parent, MD, therapist, social circle, or the media is against you?

As an ND, you are generally not given the therapeutic authority of an
MD and if you happen to be a petite, female clinician as is the case
with my wife, it is even harder. Therefore, I believe that one should
consider not only what you are comfortable with, in terms of
structuring your practice, but what is your client/patient comfortable
with, particularly when you are first starting out. Like the church I
mentioned above, we are often introducing the client/patient to
radically new ways of thinking about health. They require a structure
that both allows them to make that transition and allows them to be
comfortable trusting what their ND is telling them. In other words, to
be a doctor, there needs to be a way for therapeutic authority to flow
successfully. The main reason I always refer to my wife as "Doctor"
when I am in the clinic dealing with patients and never by her first
name is exactly to support this kind of flow.

You are, of course, free to do whatever you want in this regard. But I
would argue that referring to your patients as clients in your
promotional material or in your discussions opens up a possible point
of confusion. Realtors have clients, car salespeople have clients.
This does not given them the authority to make a diagnosis or put
someone on a detox protocol. Also, if your patients come to you
thinking of themselves as patients and they are looking for a doctor,
would not referring to them as clients give them pause? Might they not
wonder if the practitioner was not comfortable handling the
responsibility of being a doctor, since the practitioner is not
referring to them like other doctors or as they see themselves? Might
they not wonder if being a client means they will not receive medical
care but rather health advice or peripheral care that one might
receive from a nutritionist or a massage therapist?

Ultimately, this discussion is academic and probably not very useful
to you because it is a conversation you need to have with your
clients/patients/ people/whatever. I would encourage you to do this.
When we were deciding whether to buy a new clinic building across the
river from our current location, we were worried that we would lose a
significant number of our patients. The bridge is packed in rush hour
and generally the drive for some people would be 10-15 minutes longer.
Not being able to decide, we asked our patients (doh!) by giving them
the opportunity to fill out a survey. Overwhelmingly, they were
supportive of the move. We were amazed. It turns out that the parking
at our old location was terrible, something we were unaware of. The
take home message for me was that, in medicine as in life, sometimes
only the empirical option works. Sometimes, you just have to ask.

Gary Piscopo, ND, LAc

> Re: Patients vs Clients
> Posted by: "William Franklin" wfranklin_4@ yahoo.com wfranklin_4
> Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:30 pm (PST)
> A quick reminder, could everyone please remember to sign your post with
> your name?
>
> Thanks for this piece "swanoir". For the record, my issue isn't with being
> called a doctor or not, that will happen however it's supposed to. My
> original post was around, how I wanted to see the people coming in to see
> me. And, when I looked at the actual definition of the term "patient" and
> saw how clearly it defined what most people experience when they go to a
> doctor, I first wondered "which came first, the definition or the
> experience?" and second, do I really want people coming to me in that
> capacity. So, my preference is to use the term "clients" when I write about
> them in my brochures for example and speak of them as a collective group.
> It's been very interesting to see where this conversation has gone and to
> "hear" all the different perspectives. Mostly, it's great to have some
> dialogue on here again. Thanks Y'all!
>




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Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:28 am

dj.williamson
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Message #223 of 235 |
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In her new book, "Eat, Pray, Love," Elizabeth Gilbert describe a point in her experiences in India where she is frustrated by a part of her spiritual practice...
Swan
thantor3
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Nov 24, 2007
12:30 am

A quick reminder, could everyone please remember to sign your post with your name? Thanks for this piece "swanoir". For the record, my issue isn't with being...
William Franklin
wfranklin_4
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Nov 25, 2007
12:30 am

William, I apologize about forgetting my name and will be more mindful of this in the future when cutting and pasting from Word. I had an interesting...
Swan
thantor3
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Nov 26, 2007
12:35 am

Does being in an unlicensed state impact this at all? Most likely, I will be in an unlicensed state after school. The reason I even looked into the...
William Franklin
wfranklin_4
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Nov 26, 2007
1:17 am

I would just like to point out that in states where naturopaths are licensed, we have the option of deciding what to be called and what to call our...
Jennifer Williamson
dj.williamson
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Nov 26, 2007
3:28 am

P.S. I meant Doctors are not physicians in my first paragraph. NY NDs are not physicians, but as far as I know, they can call themselves doctor because of...
Jennifer Williamson
dj.williamson
Offline Send Email
Nov 26, 2007
3:38 am
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