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Is chelation therapy philosophically in line?   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #174 of 235 |
Re: [NDPhilosophy] Re: Is chelation therapy philosophically in line?

In a message dated 4/24/2007 7:50:39 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, monam@... writes:
Is the only difference between, say, oral Captomer and
IV DMSA, for example, both of which are used to chelate patients, the
fact that a needle is inserted into the vein directly with the IV DMSA,
vs. the Captomer being absorbed into the portal vein post ingestion?  
Are you saying it's the actual insertion of the needle that violates
the Vital Force, vs. essentially the same medicine being absorbed
orally, which is why you are okay with oral chelation medicine?  On
that same line, then,  is a monthly injection of B12 for a person with
pernicious anemia then a violation of the Vital Force vs. using a
sublingual tablet?   Please clarify these points for me with your
unending wisdom!
Dear Mona,
 
Again, this is my opinion.  THe difference between IV DMSA and oral DMSA is how it gets in to the blood.  I am not saying one is evil and the other is good.  I am simply saying that one you inject something directly into the blood you bypass the body mechanism for determining what is in the blood.  This increases the "force" component and the potehtial "harm" component of the treatment or procedure.  For example, there was recently an incident here in Oregon where a patient allegedly died from IV colchicine administered by an ND.  The problem likely was that the preparation was overly concentrated by the manufacturer, at least that is what we are being told.  Yes, it is possible to kill someone by oral colchicine, but it is harder.  The very nature of IV work makes it more dangerous.  This is not the last patient who will die due to IV work.  I think IV work is important.  It is also a higher force intervention, with a greater level of potential risk or harm. 
 
It is not that I am OK with oral chelation and not OK with IV chelation.  I prefer oral work because it is less risky and I don;t have to be as smart or as careful to avoid harming my patient.
 
There are times when IV administration, or IM, or subQ, or parental, is superior, for a variety of reasons.  I do IM injections of B12 to Crohn's patients, and those with removed intestines because I think it is the best way to get the B12 into them, and the risk is low, and I don't have to be too smart, and if I make a mistake, I am unlikely to harm or kill the patient.
 
To further clarify, we know that the proper administration of the proper drug results in death in US hospitals at least 100,000 if not more often, annually, according to the recent AMA report.  There is no way that we will anywhere approach these numbers by IV work, but "we" have just "killed" at least 2 patients (a similar case in Washington), due to IV administration of a somewhat dangerous medicine.  There will be more cases, simply do to the nature of the technique.  All I am saying is that IV administration of anything is a higher force intervention than oral administration (with some possible exceptions that my tired brain can not think of at the moment), and with higher force there is higher risk.  So I choose to use lower force interventions when ever I think that will get the job done, even if more slowly.  I personally, at this time, choose  not to do IV work, because it scares me.  I occasionally refer patients to someone like Virginia Osborne when I think they would benefit from Iv administration of something.  Maybe someday I will get the courage to take the course and do IV work.  When I delivered babies, I took IV sets with fluid volume expanders and pitocin to every birth, and I trained myself how to use them.  I participated in annual trainings with other ND Ob's, because I knew I might need to do this and needed to be prepared.  I never had to do it in the field.  I think it is irresponsible to attend a planed birth without that possibility.
 
Does this clarify my opinion?
 
Jared        




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Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:57 am

drzeff
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Message #174 of 235 |
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I would love to stir up some deep reflection and thoughts on a topic that I've been adamently questioning for a long time now. Is chelation therapy...
MaryK
maryk_martin
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Apr 15, 2007
12:12 am

Mary - What, exactly is your take on it? Why would you consider it harmful? If so, would any IV therapy or therapeutic vitamin therapy be in the same ...
Chance Diebold, ND
doctorchance
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Apr 15, 2007
3:15 pm

Well, I'll weigh in with a few thoughts. My first thought is that I'm not sure I understand the question. It seems to me that it assumes chelation causes...
Greg Nigh
gnigh
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Apr 16, 2007
4:35 am

Sorry to answer a question with a question, but I'm new to the clinic and actually using the therapeutic order. Isn't the first step "Remove obstacles to...
Jennifer Williamson
dj.williamson
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Apr 16, 2007
5:30 am

I see that my original question was more poorly articulated that I had realized. Let me expound. My question is not whether or not it is in our arsenal (as I...
MaryK Martin Geyer
maryk_martin
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Apr 17, 2007
4:25 am

Thanks for the clarification. It seems to me that the issue is around this phrase "fundamentally Naturopathic." If that is defined as meaning that only those...
Greg Nigh
gnigh
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Apr 17, 2007
5:16 am

I think utilizing chelation therapy gives us the opportunity to remove significant obstacles to health that most people in this age have as a result of...
Carol Anne spooner
carolannespo...
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Apr 18, 2007
2:16 am

I do not usually pipe in on these sort of topics, but I want to this time. Combining a single or combination of substances that have been extracted or...
Jerry Taylor Jr.
drjwtjr
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Apr 18, 2007
3:46 am

In a message dated 4/15/2007 9:31:04 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, dj.williamson@... writes: Sorry to answer a question with a question, but I'm new to the...
DrZeff@...
drzeff
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Apr 23, 2007
4:05 pm

Dr Zeff and fellow philosophers, I appreciate your insights on chelation therapy and the therapeutic order. Could you clarify a point? Since your comments...
Katherine Farber
kafarber1
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Apr 23, 2007
7:19 pm

In a message dated 4/23/2007 9:41:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dj.williamson@... writes: It is my understanding that toxins and heavy metals place a...
DrZeff@...
drzeff
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Apr 23, 2007
7:27 pm

Dr. Zeff, thank you for sharing more details on your approach to chelation. Since I'm just a beginner, may I dare to ask a clinical question? If this is out of...
Katherine Farber
kafarber1
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Apr 23, 2007
7:53 pm

Dear Katherine, I assess the metal burden by a DMSA oral challenge, followed by 8 hour urine. I use Doctor's Data labs for the testing. I have used IV DMPS...
DrZeff@...
drzeff
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Apr 23, 2007
8:06 pm

Hello, Jared, Thanks for sharing so much. I do have a point of confusion regarding what you wrote. Is the only difference between, say, oral Captomer and IV...
Mona Morstein
mmderdekea
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Apr 24, 2007
2:50 pm

In a message dated 4/24/2007 7:50:39 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, monam@... writes: Is the only difference between, say, oral Captomer and IV DMSA, for...
DrZeff@...
drzeff
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Apr 25, 2007
2:01 am
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