According to Wikipedia, it's similar but it is mainly seseme seeds,
no seaweed. Looks yummy though! Here is their writup on
furikake:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furikake

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 8:03 AM, Patricia Meyer <b-healthy@...> wrote:
> is gomashio salt the same as furikake?
>

I think "sour" is a good key. Syrupiness can be produced by a
number of bacteria, including Leuconostoc, which aren't bad
for you at all. Glad it turned out ok!



On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 8:47 AM, B. C <b.coole@...> wrote:
> Dear Heather,
> I tried the Kraut last night and it tastes very good and sour. I didn't notice
the syrupiness much once it hit the plate. No ill effects noted.
>
> Thanks!
>
>

Hello from Milwaukee, Wisconsin!  I'm a duplex dweller and started urban
gardening this past season.  I just got my first spiima and kefir and excited to
experiment.  Been making my own sourdoughs for a while now...whole weat and
rye/oatmeal are my favorites.  Lookin' forward to this group!
 
Felicia




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Heather,
I tried the Kraut last night and it tastes very good and sour. I didn't notice
the syrupiness much once it hit the plate. No ill effects noted.

Thanks!

--- In Microbial_Nutrition@yahoogroups.com, Heather Twist <HeatherTwist@...>
wrote:
>
> Also, while the acid-producing bacteria
> appear to be the ones that human beings get along with,
> the other ones I just don't know so much about. Some of
> them produce toxins (although actual cases of getting sick
> off ferments appears to be pretty rare except with fish).

is gomashio salt the same as furikake?

You can also just toast some Nori sheets, crumple them up into flakes.
Then add some freshly toasted sesame seeds (sesame seeds are cheap in
bulk at Asian stores), and a little salt of your choice, and sugar if
you want. It is REALLY easy to make, and a whole lot cheaper than
buying it. I bought some for the shaker (it seals completely, so the
contents stay dry) and keep refilling it. Most commercial furikake has
either gluten or MSG in it, and also it is an expensive habit if you
just buy it!

Some furikake has dried pulverized whole shrimp in it, which might
account for the "fish scale" texture if they didn't pulverize it
enough?  Not everyone likes the flavor of dried shrimp, but I do!


On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 4:08 AM, Alina <cocekqueen@...> wrote:
> You can get furikake without fish in it.  There are versions with just nori,
sesame seed, salt, sugar, etc.  Check the labels.
>
> Aloha,
> Alina
>
>

I'm afraid not, or at least I've never tried. Once a ferment goes
the wrong direction, it's hard to do much with it. Whichever
bacteria take over lay out mines and booby traps to
prevent incursion. It's kinda like when grass takes over a
freshly-plowed field.

Also, while the acid-producing bacteria
appear to be the ones that human beings get along with,
the other ones I just don't know so much about. Some of
them produce toxins (although actual cases of getting sick
off ferments appears to be pretty rare except with fish).



On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 5:38 AM, B. C <b.coole@...> wrote:
> Heather,
> Can it be fixed?
>
> --- In Microbial_Nutrition@yahoogroups.com, Heather Twist <HeatherTwist@...>
wrote:
>>
>> Sometimes ferments get polysaccharide-producing bacteria
>> in them, and they get thick, slimy, weird. Well, in the
>> case of viili or natto, that is the desired effect! But I don't
>> like it on kraut. More salt and/or acid tends to prevent it.
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>



--
Heather Twist
http://eatingoffthefoodgrid.blogspot.com/

Heather,
Can it be fixed?

--- In Microbial_Nutrition@yahoogroups.com, Heather Twist <HeatherTwist@...>
wrote:
>
> Sometimes ferments get polysaccharide-producing bacteria
> in them, and they get thick, slimy, weird. Well, in the
> case of viili or natto, that is the desired effect! But I don't
> like it on kraut. More salt and/or acid tends to prevent it.
>

You can get furikake without fish in it.  There are versions with just nori,
sesame seed, salt, sugar, etc.  Check the labels.

Aloha,
Alina

You can't gain weight by looking:
http://almostveganinparadise.wordpress.com

Whimsical holiday gifts, shirts, cards and more:
http://zazzle.com/alinaspencil*

I heard about coconut milk yogurt and haven't tried it, but it sounds
intriguing.

Anyone made this before?  Can you do it just like soy/dairy yogurt?

Aloha,
Alina

You can't gain weight by looking:
http://almostveganinparadise.wordpress.com

Whimsical holiday gifts, shirts, cards and more:
http://zazzle.com/alinaspencil*

I was just contacted by this company out of Quebec (they sell lacto-
fermented vegetables in North East USA under the name Caldwell or Bio-
Lacto, not sure). and they are now offering starter cultures for
veggie fermentation.  He agreed with me that cabbage may not need a
culture but other vegetables work better when using a starter.  The
info includes shipping in the US but he said he could ship in Canada
as well.

See enclosed pdf.

We have been making and researching lacto fermented vegetables for
over 15 years. Our investment in collaborative research projects with
Agri-Food and Agriculture Canada has resulted in a unique insight
into the science behind the process, and of course, delicious and
healthful cultured vegetables. These are available in vacuum packs
for maximum preservation and efficient storage and shipping.

We are excited to launch our newest product at the conference - a
unique mixed strain starter culture, specifically developed to help
you make raw cultured vegetables at home. It delivers the right
active bacteria for vegetable fermentation, helping to produce
consistently successful results and to enhance taste and crispness.
As with all of our products, this starter is the result of extensive
scientific research and testing. We have recently completed a
comparative study of the three main fermentation options - without a
starter; with whey; with a starter. A summary of this study will be
on display at our booth and should make fascinating reading for our
fellow fermentation enthusiasts!

If you'd like to order a larger quantity of the starter, either for
your seminars or for the other members of the chapter, we can offer
you wholesale prices starting at 20 packs. Each pack contains 6
pouches, and each pouch ferments 2kg of vegetables, so that makes
12kg per pack.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think there are some leafy green ferment recipes in Wild Fermentation by
Sandor Katz.
Jim D
Knoxville, TN

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 11:02 PM, lynnscott1950 <johnandlynn@...>wrote:

>
>
> Hi, I'm new here. I've been drinking EM daily for a couple of years now,
> eat both raw and cooked animal products, only raw dairy, and fermented
> vegetables which I buy. Other than kefir, I've never fermented anything
> myself. Fermented veggies are important to me as I'm hypothyroid and have
> been told that fermentation, in addition to its other benefits, destroys the
> goitrogenic properties of vegetables. I've searched other message boards and
> all over the internet for instructions on fermenting leafy greens by
> themselves, not with roots or cabbage, but nothing has turned up. They seem
> too fragile to ferment w/o other veggies, but I know so little about this
> matter, perhaps not. Has anyone fermented leafies with EM? If so, for how
> long at room temp before refridgerating?
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've never had anything not ferment and I've fermented every veg I can
find. I'm sure Heather is the same. Sourdough bread arrives by leaving
mixtures of water and flour around and letting the bacteria get to work.
Some lists spend their time swapping sourdough starters but there is
really no point because by the time you have made the bread a couple of
times the bacteria will be your kitchen bacteria and just the same as
they ever were.

Buying starters seems to commercialise the whole thing entirely
unnecessarily and give it a feeling of "special knowledge" which in my
experience is completely unnecessary. I remember making my first (about
a year ago) and thinking "is that it? that can't be enough" but it was.
Fermentation is really (really) very simple.

Your kitchen may be too clean I've heard that as a problem. Mine
obviously isn't. The solution is obvious and it doesn't involve buying
"special" starter

Sally

Heather Twist wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 11:42 AM, B. C <b.coole@...> wrote:
>
>
>> Grocery stores disinfect their vegetables making them nearly impossible to
get a ferment from without using a starter.
>>
>
> This hasn't been my experience at all. Actually, if you've ever made beer,
> it's REALLY HARD to keep lactobacilli out of beer, even after you've boiled it
> for an hour or so. LAB are all over. But the bacteria on the OUTSIDE of
> cabbage are what tend to ruin the ferment, which is why one takes off
> the outside leaves and washes the daylights out of it. Someone actually
> did a study on that for kraut making some time ago: soil organisms tend
> to make for less tasty kraut. Also in samples of Chinese kimchi, there were
> soil parasites in the kimchi (hopefully dead ones).
>
> I've never had kraut NOT ferment, nor anything with cabbage in it.
> Likely the nitrates in the cabbage push the ferment the right
> way? Beets and fruits are a little more picky.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.698 / Virus Database: 270.14.57/2492 - Release Date: 11/09/09
12:11:00
>
>

Sandor Katz has a recipe in Wild Fermentation. You could look on his
website. Just google his name and WF and the site should come up.

WestonPrice also has an interesting discussion by Chris Masterjohn on
goitrogenic properties of brassicas. I don't think he's convinced that
fermentation alters them His essay is on the westonprice website and was
the subject of a long discussion on this list maybe a year ago. Try
looking in past messages for his name and looking on WestonPrice

Sally

lynnscott1950 wrote:
> Hi, I'm new here.  I've been drinking EM daily for a couple of years now, eat
both raw and cooked animal products, only raw dairy, and fermented vegetables
which I buy. Other than kefir, I've never fermented anything myself. Fermented
veggies are important to me as I'm hypothyroid and have been told that
fermentation, in addition to its other benefits, destroys the goitrogenic
properties of vegetables.  I've searched other message boards and all over the
internet for instructions on fermenting leafy greens by themselves, not with
roots or cabbage, but nothing has turned up. They seem too fragile to ferment
w/o other veggies, but I know so little about this matter, perhaps not. Has
anyone fermented leafies with EM? If so, for how long at room temp before
refridgerating?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.698 / Virus Database: 270.14.57/2492 - Release Date: 11/09/09
12:11:00
>
>

Thought you 'all might too. It was a Google ad I got when I was
replying to one of this group's emails:

http://www.kimchicreator.com/

Now there is an idea!

--
Heather Twist
http://eatingoffthefoodgrid.blogspot.com/

Sometimes ferments get polysaccharide-producing bacteria
in them, and they get thick, slimy, weird. Well, in the
case of viili or natto, that is the desired effect! But I don't
like it on kraut. More salt and/or acid tends to prevent it.


On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 11:32 AM, B. C <b.coole@...> wrote:
> I made some sauerkraut in a Harsch crock using 2/3 regular cabbage and 1/3 red
cabbage. It looks really nice, is mold free, but the juice is really thick and
syrupy, about like maple syrup. I've made kraut in this crock before using the
same recipe and I've made kraut in antique crocks and I've never seen it like
this.
>
> What's your take on this?
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>



--
Heather Twist
http://eatingoffthefoodgrid.blogspot.com/

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 11:42 AM, B. C <b.coole@...> wrote:

> Grocery stores disinfect their vegetables making them nearly impossible to get
a ferment from without using a starter.

This hasn't been my experience at all. Actually, if you've ever made beer,
it's REALLY HARD to keep lactobacilli out of beer, even after you've boiled it
for an hour or so. LAB are all over. But the bacteria on the OUTSIDE of
cabbage are what tend to ruin the ferment, which is why one takes off
the outside leaves and washes the daylights out of it. Someone actually
did a study on that for kraut making some time ago: soil organisms tend
to make for less tasty kraut. Also in samples of Chinese kimchi, there were
soil parasites in the kimchi (hopefully dead ones).

I've never had kraut NOT ferment, nor anything with cabbage in it.
Likely the nitrates in the cabbage push the ferment the right
way? Beets and fruits are a little more picky.

The Korean kimchi recipes do all kinds of greens. So far all of mine
have worked, except a couple where the stems were too old and tough to
chew.


On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 8:02 PM, lynnscott1950 <johnandlynn@...> wrote:
> Hi, I'm new here.  I've been drinking EM daily for a couple of years now, eat
both raw and cooked animal products, only raw dairy, and fermented vegetables
which I buy. Other than kefir, I've never fermented anything myself. Fermented
veggies are important to me as I'm hypothyroid and have been told that
fermentation, in addition to its other benefits, destroys the goitrogenic
properties of vegetables.  I've searched other message boards and all over the
internet for instructions on fermenting leafy greens by themselves, not with
roots or cabbage, but nothing has turned up. They seem too fragile to ferment
w/o other veggies, but I know so little about this matter, perhaps not. Has
anyone fermented leafies with EM? If so, for how long at room temp before
refridgerating?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>



--
Heather Twist
http://eatingoffthefoodgrid.blogspot.com/

There was a video on youtube, by Homestead Provocateur, where she tried kraut,
and collards or kale or mustard greens. 2 different ferments. It was a green.
They looked pretty good when it was time to eat them..Ok now I'm thinking it was
turnip greens.....?




________________________________
From: lynnscott1950 <johnandlynn@...>
To: Microbial_Nutrition@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, November 9, 2009 9:02:26 PM
Subject: [MN] fermenting leafy greens

 
Hi, I'm new here. I've been drinking EM daily for a couple of years now, eat
both raw and cooked animal products, only raw dairy, and fermented vegetables
which I buy. Other than kefir, I've never fermented anything myself. Fermented
veggies are important to me as I'm hypothyroid and have been told that
fermentation, in addition to its other benefits, destroys the goitrogenic
properties of vegetables. I've searched other message boards and all over the
internet for instructions on fermenting leafy greens by themselves, not with
roots or cabbage, but nothing has turned up. They seem too fragile to ferment
w/o other veggies, but I know so little about this matter, perhaps not. Has
anyone fermented leafies with EM? If so, for how long at room temp before
refridgerating?







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, I'm new here.  I've been drinking EM daily for a couple of years now, eat
both raw and cooked animal products, only raw dairy, and fermented vegetables
which I buy. Other than kefir, I've never fermented anything myself. Fermented
veggies are important to me as I'm hypothyroid and have been told that
fermentation, in addition to its other benefits, destroys the goitrogenic
properties of vegetables.  I've searched other message boards and all over the
internet for instructions on fermenting leafy greens by themselves, not with
roots or cabbage, but nothing has turned up. They seem too fragile to ferment
w/o other veggies, but I know so little about this matter, perhaps not. Has
anyone fermented leafies with EM? If so, for how long at room temp before
refridgerating?

Buy cabbage from a farm market. Add salt and maybe some dill or caraway seeds.
That's it!

Grocery stores disinfect their vegetables making them nearly impossible to get a
ferment from without using a starter.

I am allergic to mold and when kraut gets mold on it and makes the water look
milky I throw it out. I tried skimming and then eating the kraut, but it makes
me feel awful.



--- In Microbial_Nutrition@yahoogroups.com, "BooBoo" <eauclaire101@...> wrote:
>
> This is the first time I seen green mold on top of saurkraut batch.

I just opened the red and green cabbage kraut I made last
week. I was surprised at the juice, too! I know one week is
very early to taste it, but it wasn't very good.... rather
bitter and much saltier than it tasted when I put it in the jar.

It sure is an impressive color, though. I'll see how it
tastes in a couple more weeks.

--Robin Murphy, in the Northwoods of Wisconsin
http://www.NorthwoodsWeaving.com

B. C wrote:
> I made some sauerkraut in a Harsch crock using 2/3 regular cabbage and 1/3 red
cabbage. It looks really nice, is mold free, but the juice is really thick and
syrupy, about like maple syrup.
>
> What's your take on this?

If you use store-bought vegetables you will have to use a starter. Grocery
stores wash the veggies in bleach water or some other sort of disinfectant that
pretty much kills everything and makes it nearly impossible to get a ferment
without a starter.


--- In Microbial_Nutrition@yahoogroups.com, "dave_green98" <dave_green98@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> My sauerkraut usually works out very well, but I've had mixed results with
fermented beets, carrots, cucumbers etc. Sometimes they work but quite often
they go bad or mushy, and I have to throw them away. Whey doesn't seem to make
much difference.
>
> So I'm thinking of using a starter culture to improve my success rate. I

I made some sauerkraut in a Harsch crock using 2/3 regular cabbage and 1/3 red
cabbage. It looks really nice, is mold free, but the juice is really thick and
syrupy, about like maple syrup. I've made kraut in this crock before using the
same recipe and I've made kraut in antique crocks and I've never seen it like
this.

What's your take on this?

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:05 AM, gladhearted <gladhearted@...> wrote:

> Been there, done that :) and thanks so much for mentioning it for I should
bring it back to our dinner table.  Of the different choices, the last container
had what seemed to be more fish scales than other goodies, perhaps just my
reaction to the texture of that one jar.  It did glisten and gleam in the light
and I am sure that it had an awful lot of scales ground up/flaked.  Anyway,
typically I have NOT had that negative reaction so I should make myself forget
and go back to it.  It was just so unusually more gritty.

There really are many kinds of furikake. Some have MSG and sugar, or
panko crumbs. But I make my own.


> For one of our children I actually was using that instead of sugar on his
oatmeal.

I was surprised the kids like it! But it is yummy.


> By the way, thanks so much for your input on so much...and this thanks goes to
so many of you others as well.  I appreciate you all.

We do have a great group here!

<HeatherTwist@...> wrote:
> My salt of choice is "furikake" ... a Japanese invention. It's basically
> flaked seaweed plus toasted seseme seeds, shredded dried
> bonito, and/or whatever else one wants.
* * * * * * *

Been there, done that :) and thanks so much for mentioning it for I should bring
it back to our dinner table.  Of the different choices, the last container had
what seemed to be more fish scales than other goodies, perhaps just my reaction
to the texture of that one jar.  It did glisten and gleam in the light and I am
sure that it had an awful lot of scales ground up/flaked.  Anyway, typically I
have NOT had that negative reaction so I should make myself forget and go back
to it.  It was just so unusually more gritty.

For one of our children I actually was using that instead of sugar on his
oatmeal.

By the way, thanks so much for your input on so much...and this thanks goes to
so many of you others as well.  I appreciate you all.

Eau, pictures would be great.

Other than dosen't look right, or smell right or taste right there is not a
lot of information of spoilage available on the newsgroups. Cooking or to
continue fermenting will destroy the mold. But not all molds. Luckily the
most common molds are easily destroyed. There is a concern about some molds
that release endo toxins. The molds may be destroyed but the toxins may not
be. Nor would they be visually noticeable. This is not something new and has
existed in all our food packaging and fermenting since time. What my thought
is how to make our foods really better and healthier.



Ed Kasper LAc

  <http://www.HappyHerbalist.com> www.HappyHerbalist.com





.............





<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Microbial_Nutrition/message/11469;_ylc=X3oDMT
JzczkwdTA4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEzMzk5Mjg5BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MDk1MARtc2
dJZAMxMTQ2OQRzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdm1zZwRzdGltZQMxMjU3NzYwNTQ4> Green mold on
top of saurkraut? Is it cookable and edible?


Posted by: "BooBoo"
<mailto:eauclaire101@...?Subject=%20Re%3AGreen%20mold%20on%20top%20of%
20saurkraut%3F%20Is%20it%20cookable%20and%20edible%3F>
eauclaire101@...    <http://profiles.yahoo.com/eauclaire101>
eauclaire101


Sun Nov 8, 2009 8:58 am (PST)




This is the first time I seen green mold on top of saurkraut batch. I made
about 6 over the past few months. My question is, can mold be made edible by
cooking? As far as I understand, cooking makes things sweeter. If I just
cooked the saurkraut, I should be able to kill the mold and release any
uneaten sugars from the cabbage for other bacteria, right? Then it can get
fermented again in cooked form.

I have noticed that cooked foods seem to ferment better than uncooked foods,
especially the roots and gourds (like squash).

Carrots taste sweeter after cooking and also raise blood sugar levels higher
after cooking over eating raw.

I should have taken a picture of my green mold. Would that have helped?

I will look forward to your response.

Travis
Eau Claire





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've used BE starters, and they work fine.  I've used them to ferment vegetables
with no salt and got no mold in the process.

I agree, they're expensive.  I've also used a Jarrow brand probiotic powder to
start ferments.  It seems to get started slower, so probably not as good in a
no-salt situation.  Of course you could give it a head start by giving it 24
hours in a sugar solution before you mix with your veggies.  I haven't done this
enough to give you a recipe.  I think there is one on the "Rejoice in Life"
site.

Susan

Sort of Sally Fallon style, w/ some salt and some whey, sqished down into a jar
& lidded loosely. I came across something today that said I should've salted it
a squeezed out water before starting it. So anyways I figured on some sourness
by now, day 3, but it was mostly sweet.




________________________________
From: Tonio Epstein <tonio@...>
To: Microbial_Nutrition@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, November 8, 2009 4:47:33 PM
Subject: Re: [MN] About that fermented zuchini shreds....

 
You will need to explain exactly how you are fermenting it, otherwise we can
only speculate what you are up to.

From: sarah2007hood
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 4:07 PM
To: Microbial_Nutrition @yahoogroups. com
Subject: [MN] About that fermented zuchini shreds....

Has anybody here ever tried that? This was day 3, and I tasted it and it was
pretty sweet, pretty weird, and my son says he thinks it's nasty. I should wait
longer for it to get better? I sure didn't expect sweet. Our temp is in the 70's
during the day and gets to aroud 45-50 at night (indoors). Looking forward to
responses!!!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]